sebastian is gay, charles isn't gay but probably got it on with sebastian at some point anyway. its never explicit but its pretty obvious that's what waugh was suggesting
Fool.... Not unwittingly but quite calculated and diabolical like all the hounds she sets upon Sebastian. His reproach should have been against himself for his vanity and playing the fop.
Enter the Dragon! And Charles, ignorant, status climbing, brown nosing fool makes one of the great mistakes of his life. Maybe greatest. What an empty, vapid creature. This is fiction but Alas, how I've known such as he, more than once.
With the appearance of Lady Marchmain, I must bid adieu. Knowing the rest of the story, I cannot bear to watch the destruction of such sweetness. Thank you for uploading.
"He's started a relationship with a policeman." Rather more blatant to my modern ears than the book's "He's developed a connection with a policeman there."
Oh, I love dear old Antoine. He's the only one who remains a paragon of unnatural vice through this whole business.
in my opinion they had a platonic relationship,it is a beautiful thing to be close to someone,where u share ur intimate secrets,and thats where the relationship is tested,because we all have a different sense of right or wrong.
People seem to forget that these young men had spent their entire lives up to this point exclusively in the company of other men... no wonder their relationships were different
In this time period, it was completely normal for young men to have relationships with other men while at school before reverting their attentions to women once they were in adult society. Homosexual acts were illegal and nobody had a notion of a "homosexual lifestyle" as nobody could live one. It was very common for heterosexual men to have had homosexual experiences, so don't try to define Sebastian or Charles by their sexuality.
@bn279626 You're absolutely right. It's very well explained by Robert Graves in "Good-bye to All That" - the sexes were so segregated for years of school that same-sex love relationships just happened naturally among young people. Many of these people went on to have conventional marriages; some of them continued to have homosexual extramarital affairs and relationships, and some did not.
Commentors who are convinced that Sebastian and Charles' relationship is homosexual (which it isn't), should re-watch Episode 2. You are right - Cara explains their relationship perfectly.
I aklso think that "intimacy" is (well, was then and should be now) a wider concept than "sexuality" ; especially when the latter is then immediately delineated as homo or hetero usually with a "tinge" of approval and implied disapproval (or the opposite its the same thong really).
Humanity is emotionally capable of so much more. But I do digress.
ps I like the bit where you said "You are right" too
holmsatlarge is quite correct in his/her assessment. I do believe that Charles is more fascinated by Sebastian, his beauty, money, family, and ancestral home than he is in love with Sebastian himself. He is so servile towards him it is rather disgusting.
@shinojosa8 How sad, you miss the whole point of this entire story. You confuse servility with love and affection. This story is based on the personal experiences of Evelyn Waugh starting with his term at Oxford. He was the Charles Ryder character and he had a long term relationship with a Sebastian Flyte person, most of the story is based on fact.
@skylur44, While the particulars may be based in fact Evelyn Waugh was a novelist.
I stand by my original analysis. Charles is in love with a house, and a way of life. To say that enabling a alcoholic to drink, and to leave your homosexuality behind like a discarded sock is not love.
@shinojosa8 Well, that's the beauty of fine films; everyone takes away something different, we all have our own points of view. IMO< Charles was in love with Sebastian and loved the house because of his deep feelings for his friend, also he was not immune to the beauty of the house and grounds. He did not leave his feelings behind, they just decreased naturally due to circumstances.
@skylur44, You are right we all have our own points of view and we will just have to cordially agree to disagree. I wonder if you have read the novel. I can see why you would think that Charles loved Sebastian. I would suggest that you consider that later in the novel Charles leaves his wife and child for Sebastian's sister who he believes will inherit the house. Analysis of the text is what lead to my humble opinion that Charles does not really understand true love at all.
@shinojosa8 I have read the book many, many times; and seen teh entire series many times also beginning in 1981 and now, in 2010, have a different POV re the story. Waugh/Charles and it does seem that he was a cold, indifferent person, but I believe when he was young and at Oxford he was in love with whoever Sebastian represents, or perhaps a composite of people he knew at that time.
IMO you are rather too fixated on the house, but again, we all have different opinions on the story.
Although there is likely a homosexual subtext here, as BR reflects Waugh's own college dalliances, we ought to remember that the upper caste which he here portrays was a last bastion of the more fluid arrangements of more emotionally fluid traditional days. In those less jaded times, people might find "romantic friendships" as an expected part of life, especially before marriage, and had no censorious tinge unless they went too far. Tee-heeing over this is a sign of more modern insecurities.
@Shufei It is obvious that Sebastion is gay.Charles is not.Charles represents the homosexuality of the upper class,brought about by Boarding School life.Young males on the cusp of sexual awakening with only males to turn to.For an excellent look at this life,I suggest `IF' by Lindsay Anderson.Less jaded times?I think not.Decadence was rife amongst this class.For the life you describe I suggest anything by P.G.Wodehouse.Yes,the tee-heeing is just sad and juvenile.
sebastian is gay, charles isn't gay but probably got it on with sebastian at some point anyway. its never explicit but its pretty obvious that's what waugh was suggesting
benehan 2 months ago
Fool.... Not unwittingly but quite calculated and diabolical like all the hounds she sets upon Sebastian. His reproach should have been against himself for his vanity and playing the fop.
globalman 2 months ago
Enter the Dragon! And Charles, ignorant, status climbing, brown nosing fool makes one of the great mistakes of his life. Maybe greatest. What an empty, vapid creature. This is fiction but Alas, how I've known such as he, more than once.
globalman 2 months ago
With the appearance of Lady Marchmain, I must bid adieu. Knowing the rest of the story, I cannot bear to watch the destruction of such sweetness. Thank you for uploading.
spiceonian 3 months ago
haha this is such a snobbish book. americans have to have a long relationship with it in order to see it though.
krane121 3 months ago
Thank God for Britain!
DaseinFly 4 months ago
Comment removed
krane121 3 months ago
"How does one mend one's ways?"
Rachel1California 6 months ago
"He's started a relationship with a policeman." Rather more blatant to my modern ears than the book's "He's developed a connection with a policeman there."
Oh, I love dear old Antoine. He's the only one who remains a paragon of unnatural vice through this whole business.
ForkInTheToaster42 7 months ago
in my opinion they had a platonic relationship,it is a beautiful thing to be close to someone,where u share ur intimate secrets,and thats where the relationship is tested,because we all have a different sense of right or wrong.
bozo828 1 year ago
People seem to forget that these young men had spent their entire lives up to this point exclusively in the company of other men... no wonder their relationships were different
theoldadage 1 year ago 10
I totally agree with maggijude. Cara was right.
IrisDeWell 1 year ago 2
oh, to have a servant at college lol what a life...
riseuplight 1 year ago 2
In this time period, it was completely normal for young men to have relationships with other men while at school before reverting their attentions to women once they were in adult society. Homosexual acts were illegal and nobody had a notion of a "homosexual lifestyle" as nobody could live one. It was very common for heterosexual men to have had homosexual experiences, so don't try to define Sebastian or Charles by their sexuality.
bn279626 1 year ago 20
@bn279626 well said ...rather... beautifully expressed ...since we are typing as opposed to speaking : )
gaiagale 1 year ago
@bn279626 ......quiet right .
chiccabay 1 year ago
@bn279626 This not excluding Evelyn Waugh himself.
goinghame 1 month ago
@bn279626 You're absolutely right. It's very well explained by Robert Graves in "Good-bye to All That" - the sexes were so segregated for years of school that same-sex love relationships just happened naturally among young people. Many of these people went on to have conventional marriages; some of them continued to have homosexual extramarital affairs and relationships, and some did not.
squeapler 2 weeks ago
Mr Samgrass is the Mr Collins of Brideshead
mf2101 2 years ago 4
I thought Cara explained it perfectly in the previous ep.
maggijude 2 years ago 5
Commentors who are convinced that Sebastian and Charles' relationship is homosexual (which it isn't), should re-watch Episode 2. You are right - Cara explains their relationship perfectly.
sandyh59 1 year ago
I aklso think that "intimacy" is (well, was then and should be now) a wider concept than "sexuality" ; especially when the latter is then immediately delineated as homo or hetero usually with a "tinge" of approval and implied disapproval (or the opposite its the same thong really).
Humanity is emotionally capable of so much more. But I do digress.
ps I like the bit where you said "You are right" too
maggijude 1 year ago 2
@maggijude to me their relationship is more intimate than anything else not sexual.
ericnfan 1 year ago 3
@maggijude me too
ericnfan 1 year ago
holmsatlarge is quite correct in his/her assessment. I do believe that Charles is more fascinated by Sebastian, his beauty, money, family, and ancestral home than he is in love with Sebastian himself. He is so servile towards him it is rather disgusting.
shinojosa8 2 years ago 3
@shinojosa8 How sad, you miss the whole point of this entire story. You confuse servility with love and affection. This story is based on the personal experiences of Evelyn Waugh starting with his term at Oxford. He was the Charles Ryder character and he had a long term relationship with a Sebastian Flyte person, most of the story is based on fact.
skylur44 1 year ago
@skylur44, While the particulars may be based in fact Evelyn Waugh was a novelist.
I stand by my original analysis. Charles is in love with a house, and a way of life. To say that enabling a alcoholic to drink, and to leave your homosexuality behind like a discarded sock is not love.
shinojosa8 1 year ago
@shinojosa8 Well, that's the beauty of fine films; everyone takes away something different, we all have our own points of view. IMO< Charles was in love with Sebastian and loved the house because of his deep feelings for his friend, also he was not immune to the beauty of the house and grounds. He did not leave his feelings behind, they just decreased naturally due to circumstances.
skylur44 1 year ago 4
@skylur44, You are right we all have our own points of view and we will just have to cordially agree to disagree. I wonder if you have read the novel. I can see why you would think that Charles loved Sebastian. I would suggest that you consider that later in the novel Charles leaves his wife and child for Sebastian's sister who he believes will inherit the house. Analysis of the text is what lead to my humble opinion that Charles does not really understand true love at all.
shinojosa8 1 year ago
@shinojosa8 I have read the book many, many times; and seen teh entire series many times also beginning in 1981 and now, in 2010, have a different POV re the story. Waugh/Charles and it does seem that he was a cold, indifferent person, but I believe when he was young and at Oxford he was in love with whoever Sebastian represents, or perhaps a composite of people he knew at that time.
IMO you are rather too fixated on the house, but again, we all have different opinions on the story.
skylur44 1 year ago
Although there is likely a homosexual subtext here, as BR reflects Waugh's own college dalliances, we ought to remember that the upper caste which he here portrays was a last bastion of the more fluid arrangements of more emotionally fluid traditional days. In those less jaded times, people might find "romantic friendships" as an expected part of life, especially before marriage, and had no censorious tinge unless they went too far. Tee-heeing over this is a sign of more modern insecurities.
Shufei 2 years ago 2
@Shufei It is obvious that Sebastion is gay.Charles is not.Charles represents the homosexuality of the upper class,brought about by Boarding School life.Young males on the cusp of sexual awakening with only males to turn to.For an excellent look at this life,I suggest `IF' by Lindsay Anderson.Less jaded times?I think not.Decadence was rife amongst this class.For the life you describe I suggest anything by P.G.Wodehouse.Yes,the tee-heeing is just sad and juvenile.
holmsatlarge 2 years ago
@Shufei I totally agree. I have travelled in countries where heterosexual men can show affection in public, even holding hands.
mf2101 2 years ago 4
No, they do not, and it's time to grow up.
ruzbehan 2 years ago
Hahah, thank you.
JennyYaaay 2 years ago
Do they kiss in this episode?
Rymbeld 2 years ago