I beg to differ, This IS a "real" EBN Dry Cell. It is the very first one they sold online on the day that it arrived at my home. What would you have me call this video? It is what it is and I stand by the title I gave it. However, I won't deny that this might be some "random sheeit" video. :))
My electrician tells me to be careful and use white vinegar in the bubbler to neutralize the hho from the lye going into the engine. Also mentioned that if I run the engine too lean it will tend to get hot and burn the valves??
I am not so sure that even white vinegar will eliminate all of the Lye that might be suspended in the vapor.
We were running into that issue right near the end of where I left off with this project. Last I heard, it had not been addressed.
As for leaning your mixture, yes you could damage your valves if you are over zealous. However it is not my intent to tamper with any of the car's existing fuel system. I am not expecting a problem of burnt valves.
Luther I cant thank you and all the others that are putting in the time for this but I really want to put one of these on a electric generator and get to saving some money Please throw me a email where you got that cell at and if its even worth it yet to try and power a gas geneator with it im assuming it is ..later
The reality is that once you get too close, the surface tension of the bubbles against the sides of the opposing plates will prevent gas from being released from the cell and eventually stall your gas production.
I am liking 1mm spacing for the moment. Seems to work well as a 'good compromise' distance between the plates.
Its funny that you mentioned about he "big ports". ;-)
I wont be messing with the plate surfaces until I can figure out how to keep them "wet" most of the time. (i.e. when that is the only thing keeping them from producing more gas.)
You're very welcome Luther! Hey, the way I see it is, you put the work in, and you deserve the cudos! I, and I know many others appreciate your hard work and tedious research and development!
As for the ports, now that I've heard YOU and several others state that the ports may be a bit small on these dry cells, I'm goin at LEAST 1 inch ports w/ at least one inch barbs or the like on my 6 X 12'er!
just tilt it and put ur intake on the opposite side of the cell on the corner and the exhaust has to be on the corner so that was you get alot more :)
The way the cell is set up right now, if you plug the drilled and threaded outlet and drilled the other end larger it would line up better, but the hole is going to be very close to the existing bolt hole that hold the cell together and will be a weak area in the cell.
Sounds good, Thanks. If the cell design added 2 more bolts, one on the top and one on the bottom equal spaced from the fittings you would be able to use the most out of the cell design along with having the stainless plates and the end plate inlet and output holes line up without getting the bolt holes too close to the fitting holes to make the design weak in this area.Just my 2 cents.
I got one of the EBN cells today and during assembly I noticed that the input and output fitting holes do not line up with the stainless plate holes, about 1/2 or more of a hole off. Is your cell set up the same way? If the upper and lower attach bolt holes were drilled off center the fitting holes in the end plates could have been drilled to line up with the stainless plate holes.
For d3adp001 & SmartScarecrow: How much is 10g in teaspoons?
For lukeoid153: The sanding may be OK, although some have said it wasn't worth the effort. I think the pounding and dimpling is a definite no-no. On a plate this large, I would be afraid of the plates warping enough to touch each other.
Also. You might consider 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, leaves less residue. Walgreens has it.
Boyce and Smack suggest that roughing up the surface will facilitate the breaking off of bubbles faster from the surface, and increasing surface area, 2 things that might improve efficiency. I wonder if you might get even 7+mmw...that perhaps perfection is really yet to be had.....Just thinking.... ;)
Interesting..flaw? in the design that suggests that HHO does not exit fast enough...
Wouldn't it be cool if one could actually see how and exactly where the bubbles are:
-forming on the plate
-where they are being moved the most efficiently off the plate (possibly areas along the plate close to center?)
-how much and how effectively the bubbles are entering into the exit tube (perhaps more entry holes the whole way along the bottom and more exit holes along the top?..perfection still yet 2bhad?
As for a supplier for your KOH, do you have a soup making supply shop in your town? That is where I get mine, a little more costly but alot easier to get.
I would suggest 10G per gallon distilled, but I also prefer Koh, but thats why this is an experimentors cell. It should be very versatle for quite a from different setups.
'Someday' I would like to try KOH, but I have not yet resolved finding a suitable supplier.
Trying KOH at some point is something that I want to do. This just hasn't worked out yet.
I can use my normal approach and keep adding electrolyte until I achieve a specific amp draw. 'Usually' this works out to be about 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. (no gram scale avail)
Keep us to date on your progress. I am really interested to see what you come up with for a bubbler reservoir.
If you were using KOH, I would suggest 10g per gallon of distilled water as a good starting point. Check your amps, add about 1g at a time SLOWLY until you it up to about the amps you are comfortable with. Should be similar with NaOH.
You should be able to get 1 to 1.5 LPM with as little as 20a or so at 12-14v. Be shooting for 5+ mmw. Let us know how you do.
I use same size inlet as outlet on mine and it works just fine. So I do not think your going to the 3/8 lower barb is going to give you any grief at all.
The monster has 3 x 1/2 inch feeders and 3 x 1/2 inch exhausts and there is plenty of convection flow that I really do not need the pump I have hooked up to it unless I change fluid concentration and want to quickly recirculate the new mix of soup.
It will be prettier when it gets its EBN sticker. Hear its on the way to you.
You really can't what's a real EBN video and what's some random shit with the names they give those tracks.
Cakerolled 2 years ago
I beg to differ, This IS a "real" EBN Dry Cell. It is the very first one they sold online on the day that it arrived at my home. What would you have me call this video? It is what it is and I stand by the title I gave it. However, I won't deny that this might be some "random sheeit" video. :))
lutherp40 2 years ago
My electrician tells me to be careful and use white vinegar in the bubbler to neutralize the hho from the lye going into the engine. Also mentioned that if I run the engine too lean it will tend to get hot and burn the valves??
partwerks 2 years ago
I am not so sure that even white vinegar will eliminate all of the Lye that might be suspended in the vapor.
We were running into that issue right near the end of where I left off with this project. Last I heard, it had not been addressed.
As for leaning your mixture, yes you could damage your valves if you are over zealous. However it is not my intent to tamper with any of the car's existing fuel system. I am not expecting a problem of burnt valves.
lutherp40 2 years ago
Did you tap threads in the outer plexiglass plates and if so, is plexiglass easy to tap threads into?
partwerks 2 years ago
Luther I cant thank you and all the others that are putting in the time for this but I really want to put one of these on a electric generator and get to saving some money Please throw me a email where you got that cell at and if its even worth it yet to try and power a gas geneator with it im assuming it is ..later
Muggzie76 2 years ago
Did you use anything to clean your plates before installing them and if so, what did you use?
partwerks 2 years ago
What is the optimum distance between the plates for best efficiency?
partwerks 3 years ago
That is a hard one to answer.
The short answer, the closer the better.
The reality is that once you get too close, the surface tension of the bubbles against the sides of the opposing plates will prevent gas from being released from the cell and eventually stall your gas production.
I am liking 1mm spacing for the moment. Seems to work well as a 'good compromise' distance between the plates.
lutherp40 3 years ago
Nice looking cell!!! Have you got a LPM out of it yet and amp draw???
RockinCrawler 3 years ago
Yeppers.
See:
EBN Dry Cell - 1.312 LPM @ 5.380 MM
(very first run of cell)
and
EBN Dry Cell - Efficiency Map (w/data)
(optimized cell and mapped out where the cell is most efficient and where it has the most output.)
lutherp40 3 years ago
GREAT job Luther!
I REALLY like the way you're beginning to tweak your cell for MASS production!
At that price, I understand the cause for caution when tweaking it in anyway that's not undoable, such as the cross hatching and dimpling!
I'm just trying to imagine where you and a lot of others' cells will be in, say, a YEAR from now!
I'm bettin your cell will have crosshatch AND dimpling and some HUGE ports coming out of it, ey?
Keep up your GREAT VIDS!
Superbee1970
superbee1970 3 years ago
Thank you very much for the kudos.
Its funny that you mentioned about he "big ports". ;-)
I wont be messing with the plate surfaces until I can figure out how to keep them "wet" most of the time. (i.e. when that is the only thing keeping them from producing more gas.)
lutherp40 3 years ago
You're very welcome Luther! Hey, the way I see it is, you put the work in, and you deserve the cudos! I, and I know many others appreciate your hard work and tedious research and development!
As for the ports, now that I've heard YOU and several others state that the ports may be a bit small on these dry cells, I'm goin at LEAST 1 inch ports w/ at least one inch barbs or the like on my 6 X 12'er!
Sincerely,
Superbee1970
superbee1970 3 years ago
I know how to keep them wet all the time :)
just tilt it and put ur intake on the opposite side of the cell on the corner and the exhaust has to be on the corner so that was you get alot more :)
mvlady 3 years ago
Hi @lutherp40
Thank you very much, for your work and your nice comments.
I like your correct clean style, to test things out.
I ordered with two tech-friends lasercutted plates V4A, for a dry cell.
The design is changed for the plates.
We are using circle design, with cheap rubber-rings, are used for marmelade cooking.
We hope to get no dead-muck-zones.
The floodholes are changed too.
If you want, i can send you screens of the cad-data inner-plates outer, etc..
Energermany 3 years ago
One of the problems with sealed plate designs is that they are usually not very good for allowing the gas to escape from the plate area.
If your gas production is too much, it will just backup inside the cell and block the plates from making more gas.
Keep an eye out for that potential problem with your cell.
The description of your cell looks promising. Sending me pictures will just make me drool. ;-) Not easy for me to get stainless here.
Good luck. I will be looking for your videos. :)
lutherp40 3 years ago
they say sold out on there website!
myspacecomments 3 years ago
The way the cell is set up right now, if you plug the drilled and threaded outlet and drilled the other end larger it would line up better, but the hole is going to be very close to the existing bolt hole that hold the cell together and will be a weak area in the cell.
fedextech 3 years ago
Sounds good, Thanks. If the cell design added 2 more bolts, one on the top and one on the bottom equal spaced from the fittings you would be able to use the most out of the cell design along with having the stainless plates and the end plate inlet and output holes line up without getting the bolt holes too close to the fitting holes to make the design weak in this area.Just my 2 cents.
fedextech 3 years ago
I got one of the EBN cells today and during assembly I noticed that the input and output fitting holes do not line up with the stainless plate holes, about 1/2 or more of a hole off. Is your cell set up the same way? If the upper and lower attach bolt holes were drilled off center the fitting holes in the end plates could have been drilled to line up with the stainless plate holes.
fedextech 3 years ago
I did not notice. (well... pay attention actually)
I have been thinking of redoing the end plates anyway. It needs a larger area to allow gas to escape.
I hadn't worked out the details just yet, but I am thinking it needs maybe 3/4" ports on both sides feeding a 1" line.
It works well now so haven't focused on that change much yet.
I am more intent on just installing one of my systems on the racecar first.
I'll worry about tweaking it later.
lutherp40 3 years ago
Nice Video.
I'm waiting for my unit to arrive.
For d3adp001 & SmartScarecrow: How much is 10g in teaspoons?
For lukeoid153: The sanding may be OK, although some have said it wasn't worth the effort. I think the pounding and dimpling is a definite no-no. On a plate this large, I would be afraid of the plates warping enough to touch each other.
Also. You might consider 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, leaves less residue. Walgreens has it.
Racer 426
Racer392 3 years ago
Thank you.
lutherp40 3 years ago
Great job L.
Couple q's:
-how did you prep the plates?
-does EBN have available gaskets of diffent thickness available?
Very much appreciate your work!
Lukeoid153
lukeoid153 3 years ago
Thank you for the props and kudos.
- I cleansed the plates, gaskets and end plates with Isopropyl rubbing alcohol (70%) using paper towels as I assembled each piece.
- At the time that I ordered my kit, they only offered the kit and the pre-built model. No optional accessories.
You should check out the Energy Builders network.
lutherp40 3 years ago
I ask because I wonder if the preparation principles that Bob Boyce and Smack use may be helpful in doing more: improving efficiency etc.
...sanding in a cross pattern, pounding/roughing the surface...
Lukeoid153
lukeoid153 3 years ago
Keep in mind that I am getting 6+ MMW numbers straight out of the box.
Its hard to justify messing with perfection. :-)
I considered sanding, but I don't think you need that trick. This cell will crank out as much gas as you have the nerve to push it.
As for prepping the plates, these are 316L and really there isn't much iron that can leach out of the plates. It runs clean.
It makes more sense to condition the plates if you are using 302 0r 304 stainless than it does for 316L.
lutherp40 3 years ago
Very good.
Boyce and Smack suggest that roughing up the surface will facilitate the breaking off of bubbles faster from the surface, and increasing surface area, 2 things that might improve efficiency. I wonder if you might get even 7+mmw...that perhaps perfection is really yet to be had.....Just thinking.... ;)
lukeoid153 3 years ago
One thing this cell does not have a problem with is its ability to produce a lot of gas in a very short period of time.
Its current primary problem is that it can not relieve itself of the gas it has already created fast enough so that it can produce even more gas.
Until you successfully deal with that mechanical problem, sanding or dimpling the plates is NOT required.
At $10 per plate, you really think long and hard about changing the finish to something that can not be undone.
lutherp40 3 years ago
Under different circumstances, sanding and dimpling the plates may in fact be advantageous.
I just think it is premature to create even more gas when you can't get the gas you already have out of the cell fast enough.
lutherp40 3 years ago
Interesting..flaw? in the design that suggests that HHO does not exit fast enough...
Wouldn't it be cool if one could actually see how and exactly where the bubbles are:
-forming on the plate
-where they are being moved the most efficiently off the plate (possibly areas along the plate close to center?)
-how much and how effectively the bubbles are entering into the exit tube (perhaps more entry holes the whole way along the bottom and more exit holes along the top?..perfection still yet 2bhad?
lukeoid153 3 years ago
Its hard to call it a flaw by itself.
More like an unanticipated development. ;-)
lutherp40 3 years ago
Better name. A real gentleman you are.
Thanks.
lukeoid153 3 years ago
Get job , but the issue with having to chase the
end plate input output threads is because the plates are backward. This is a pipe thread one side is larger that the other . I did the myself once.
IronHead
SGiHunter 3 years ago
Thank you for your comment.
I did try from both sides for both fittings before I put a tap to it.
They had not threaded the plate far enough to let the fittings start from either side
That was when I used the tap to figure out which side "out" was supposed to be.
Once I figured which way "out" was, that was when I ran the tap further into the hole to clean the opening to allow the fittings to start.
a 1/4" NPT tap was used.
lutherp40 3 years ago
I see thank you for you find it has been noted.
SGiHunter 3 years ago
As for a supplier for your KOH, do you have a soup making supply shop in your town? That is where I get mine, a little more costly but alot easier to get.
kantill 3 years ago
A tourist town here. :(
Hardly any manufacturing at all nearby.
lutherp40 3 years ago
I would suggest 10G per gallon distilled, but I also prefer Koh, but thats why this is an experimentors cell. It should be very versatle for quite a from different setups.
d3adp001 3 years ago
'Someday' I would like to try KOH, but I have not yet resolved finding a suitable supplier.
Trying KOH at some point is something that I want to do. This just hasn't worked out yet.
I can use my normal approach and keep adding electrolyte until I achieve a specific amp draw. 'Usually' this works out to be about 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. (no gram scale avail)
Thank you for the tips and suggestions.
lutherp40 3 years ago
ebay buddy! I bought 8 pounds of the stuff for 23 bucks!
gerriburn 3 years ago
FYI: All I did was clean the plates. I did not do any sanding like I was threatening to.
I was really hoping I could fire it up this evening, but it got too late.
I still need to make up a wiring harness and add the fittings to the reservoir, make up the solution, cut the hoses to fit, etc.
That reminds me, about what concentration of NaOH do you suggest I start out with?
lutherp40 3 years ago
Keep us to date on your progress. I am really interested to see what you come up with for a bubbler reservoir.
If you were using KOH, I would suggest 10g per gallon of distilled water as a good starting point. Check your amps, add about 1g at a time SLOWLY until you it up to about the amps you are comfortable with. Should be similar with NaOH.
You should be able to get 1 to 1.5 LPM with as little as 20a or so at 12-14v. Be shooting for 5+ mmw. Let us know how you do.
SmartScarecrow 3 years ago
You've seen the bubbler I intend to use before.
I will be using the one shown in my "Built Some HHO Accessories" video.
lutherp40 3 years ago
I use same size inlet as outlet on mine and it works just fine. So I do not think your going to the 3/8 lower barb is going to give you any grief at all.
The monster has 3 x 1/2 inch feeders and 3 x 1/2 inch exhausts and there is plenty of convection flow that I really do not need the pump I have hooked up to it unless I change fluid concentration and want to quickly recirculate the new mix of soup.
It will be prettier when it gets its EBN sticker. Hear its on the way to you.
SmartScarecrow 3 years ago