Gretzky plays with Gordie Howe Moscow Dynamo Hockey

[revelation1965]

Their still trying to find a power forward like Gordie he was the total package,

[SonOfTamriel]

This is great, thanks a lot.

[gcdcjccc]

has there ever been a smoother skater than Gordie Howe?

[PwnThe813]

Dude was he seriously playing with no helmet? Balls of steel.

[PsychoticButcher]

@PwnThe813 Yeah when Gordie Howe started playing no one wore helmets lol, even goalies.

[HoweHD]

My Name Is Jesse Howe:D

<3

[OrrCountry]

Gordie himself says Orr's the best hockey player he ever saw, so 'nuff said folks, eh?

And it is undeniable that a team of 5 Bobby Orr's would defeat a team of 5 Anyone Else's. It begins with superior skating ability and speed, including the ability to skate backwards. None of the other top players of all-time, all forwards mind you, could come close to matching Orr's skating talent.

[JEMCO2008]

So lucky got to see Goedie and Mark pratice at the Sharpstown Ice Rink

[justgonnastay]

Holy Crap! Lookit Lil' Wayne!

[classicNHLfights]

that's cool that the 2 greatest players ever played together

[matt75hooper]

@BillieBobSmith Listen, you ignorant peasant. You will now direct me to YOUTUBE or any other video source for evidence of a Gretzky :

A. Blocked shot.

B. Hip Check

C. Poke Check

D. Defending a fellow team-mate.

E. Back checking

F. Stopping a 2 on 1.

G. Fight

Shall I go on ? You moron. If 70's was beer n smoke time, idiot, what about the players that scored more in the 80's than they did in the 70's ! Hahahahahahaa

Fool.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

I can show you evidence of Orr :

A. Losing the puck at the blue line, resulting in a 2 on 1 and a goal.

B. Getting the puck passed between his legs, resulting in a rush and a goal.

C. Completely forgetting to watch a player in front of the net, resulting in a goal.

D. Being nowhere near the scramble in front of the net he should defend, resulting in a goal.

E. Being way out of position in front of the opposing net, resulting in a turnover, an easy breakaway... and a goal.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Wow---awesome research. I can only imagine how difficult and time consuming your assignment was. I had no idea it was such hard work defending Gretzky, he would be proud of you. The only problem with your research is : I asked the gentleman an entirely different list on Gretzky. Tell me---were you successful in finding any of the items I asked for ? I suspect not or you would have, well, casually mentioned them. Orr's PLUS/Minus is the best ever, by far. Nice try though.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

A. Gretzky blocks a shot on the Blind pass to Coffey video, he also blocked 2 shots before his overtime shorthanded goal against Calgary, but I've never seen the play on YouTube.

B. There is evidence of a Gretzky check on YouTube.

C. Gretzky forechecked hard, watch the videos there are plenty of examples.

D. Gretzky was usually the target, and there were players in the team much better to do this job.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

E. This is tough to find because the highlights on YouTube are usually goals, but if you watch an entire game you could find it, but remember that Gretzky was the first to forecheck deep in the opponent zone.

F. If a centerman has to stop a 2 on 1, I ask, where are the 2 defensemen.

G. There is a fight on YouTube, and I admit that Gretzky looks silly, he was better at playing hockey.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 I am busting your balls. Obviously Gretzky has back checked and blocked shots, etc. Although I keep trying, it is simply impossible to explain how dominant Orr was in his day. Hockey changed when he laced up his skates. He won Offensive Player of the Year and Defensive Player of the Year--in the same Year ! Twice ! I believe with every fibre in my bones people simply cant comprehend that fact. 30,000 NHL players--no one ever did it. He did it twice.

The Very Best ever.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

You want me to make a list of all the things Gretzky did that no one else ever did, I don't have enough space in one post.

Maybe it's impossible for you to explain how dominant Orr was, but it's easy for me to explain how dominant Gretzky was. 9 MVPs and 8 in a row, I don't even have to add anything, not even the 60 NHL records, there's absolutely nothing Orr did that comes close to that.

Gretzky is the best ever.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99  There were games that the Bruins would lose 1 - 0 and yet the whole game was an Orr highlight reel. There were many games Gretzky would score 2 goals, 4 assists, and you hardly knew he was on the roster. I cant explain it to young whippersnappers. You had to be there. Call me when a Major League Pitcher wins 30 games on the mound and the Triple Crown for batting in the same year. Impossible ? So was what Orr did. And he did it twice.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

You don't seem to understand that there is a difference between a highlight reel player and a MVP player. Gretzky was getting the job done game after game even if you didn't notice him, that's why it's hard for everyone to understand how he could get the astronomical numbers he did.

Even if Orr was the most complete player for two years, that doesn't compare to being the most valuable player nine years out of ten.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 I suspect you saw very little if any of Orr play. Your last post confirmed that for me. Orr dominated every game he played in. He had the damn puck on his stick most of the game. The entire tempo of the game was controlled at his whim. Offensive numbers were fantastically inflated in the 80's, early 90's, taking nothing away from Gretzky. The NHL went Euro-Non-Check. You have confused 'Best Ever' with greatest offensive force. Orr was 2nd to Gretzky in what facet ? Answer please.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

Orr dominated every game he played, wow you make it sound like he was the MVP every year. What, he wasn't?

I have to suspect too that you saw little of Gretzky.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 I saw ALL OF GRETZKY's career. I saw all of Orr's too..Once again you show first hand how little you know of Orr's dominance ! By the time Orr won his MVP awards--he was considered to be on another Planet--not just another level. They began to chose other MVP's -with every person in the league well aware Orr was a once in a hundred year player. Consider-Orr won the Scoring Title and Norris-but not the MVP that year ! What the hell do I need to do to open your eyes to the obvious ?

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

That explains exactly why it's so impressive that Wayne won the MVP 8 years in a row, he left no other choice.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 You are not curious person. When a player wins Offensive Player of the Year, defensive player of the Year and many other awards---and DOES NOT win the MVP Award----my curiousity would peak. Especially since it never happened before or since ! Seems to me something much large was at work. What you cant possibly comprehend----is Orr was already considered a God by '75....If Gretzky's average {per game} numbers impress you so, how do Orr's not ? Since his were even better !

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 If Gretzky started with the 1966 Boston Cellar Dweller Bruins, his numbers would be half of what they are today. The Bruins may not have even won a Stanley Cup. If Orr had started with the Edmonton Oiler Traveling Hall of Fame All Star Team, Orr would still have his fantastic numbers and would have played twice as long. The All Star Oilers would have won more Cups too ! Evidence--the Oilers won a Cup without Wayne. Imagine Orr on that Team ! Orr's kness had to carry so much.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

The Bruins improved a lot during the first 3 years of Orr's career, but he wasn't really a factor, it's Espo and Hodge arrival that helped the team. If Gretzky was on that team, he would have dominated easily, and the '67 expansion weakened the league.

On the other hand, Gretzky's Oilers were an expansion team and far from an All Star team in the beginning, can you name 2 good players from the 79-80 Oilers? Gretzky won the Hart and led in scoring on his rookie season with nobody.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Few people believe that expanding from 6 Teams to 12 Teams watered down the league anywhere near the extent that further expansion down the road did. 120 NHLers to 240 ? Spread over an entire Continent ? Come on. When Bobby Clarke won the NHL MVP--do you know what he said ? "I realize this is really Orr's--but there really should be another league for him to play in, he's just too good for the rest of us here in the NHL." He won Ross and Norris but not MVP ? Explain? 

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

Sure the expansion made a difference, when Orr won his 1st MVP, the Bruins were 23-1-6 (+22) against really bad expansion teams and only 14-15-11 (-1) , a losing record against the other original six.

And if Orr didn't win the Hart in '75 it's because Clarke deserved it more, the Flyers finished 1st overall and he was 37pts ahead of his best teammate.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Oh My---the mental gymnastics you've twisted yourself into to defend your beloved Great One. He needs no defending by the way. You will also note old timers choose 4 over 99 about 90% of the time. The younger the person--the more they will chose 99 for obvious reasons. That too will change in 10 years. 6 teams to 12. That meant you still had to play against the top forwards many times per year. By 1990---Gretzky played against Ray Bourque barely enough to recognize him.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

I know the Great One needs no defending, he is the greatest player ever to play the game, I just don't understand why you don't realize it.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Simple logic, that's how. Other than Passing Skills--Orr was superior in every way. And---he played on a much weaker Team over his career. His Defensive partners-Dallas Smith and Rick Smith, fine NHL Defensemen, are not in the Top 500 of NHL scoring ! Gretzky's Teamates are the Who's Who list of Hall of Famers. So good were the Oilers--they won a Cup without Wayne. The Bruins are still waiting..40 years last May10th. Gretzky on 70' Bruins ? Without protection? 2nd line behind Espo.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

You forgot to mention that Gretzky was superior in being the most valuable player in the league.

It's easy to understand why Orr's defensive partners didn't score, they had to stay in the back, covering for Orr's liabilities when he was caught deep in the offensive zone.

You say Orr played on a much weaker team, are you kidding?! The Bruins had the four best scorers in the league twice, Orr was surrounded by three other HoFers.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Orr's defensive liabilities lol..8 straight Norris Trophies. Orr won 2 scoring titles and was runner up 4 more times ! Even if he won 6 in a row you'd still be in here with your funny math and convenient research. Gretzky better than Orr ? Gordie Howe, Ken Dryden, Milt Schidt, Scotty Bowman, Pat Quinn, Jacques Plante, Punch Imlach, Jean Ratelle, Gil Perreault, Bobby Hull, Mario LeMeiux, Harry Sinden, Bobby Clarke, Brad Park, Don Cherry, to name a few, DISAGREE WITH YOU. As do I.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

Orr won the Norris for his offensive talents. I mean, everybody agrees Paul Coffey wasn't a good defensive d-man and he won the Norris three times...

All the hockey minds took a poll for the Hockey News to determine the top 50 players of all time, who was 1st? Wayne Gretzky (even Don Cherry voted Gretzky on that poll...). And it's well known Lemieux think Gretzky is the best.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 *Hockey News voters were instructed to NOT USE plus/minus numbers in there decisions / votes. Why ? Because so many in the Top 50 were Pre-1966 Players. This Profoundly hurt Orr. When the final vote came down to Orr - Gretzky, the PLUS MINUS numbers certainly should have been used. Basically-Hockey News believed HOWE was going to voted #1. That's why the +/- was tossed, as he would have been penalized. When the smoke cleared---Orr was penalized. Cherry chose Orr.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

Wow, you can't come up with a better excuse than that, really funny.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 The Panel of Experts were informed that the PLUS MINUS was {not} to be used in voting. Gretzky bested Orr in the final vote by a fraction of a percent. Many panel members thought the use of PLUS MINUS numbers for the TOP 5 should have been used since Orr, Gretzky and Lemiuex's careers were during that statistical reality. Orr's plus minus was more than twice that of Gretzky and 3 times that of Lemiuex's per game average. That taken into account---Orr is a run-away winner.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

I have the Hockey News edition in question, and nowhere is the crap you talk about. It's true that Gretzky, Orr and Howe all finished really close, what gave Gretzky the edge is his performance in the playoffs.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 I have the Hock News Magazine on my rack, and true it does not mention the rules to be followed. It was nearly a Year later when the guidelines were revealed. It was actually the week before the 50 PLAYERS edition came out that questioning had begun about the process. The 40 Greatest Seasons Collectors Edition profiled the players with the greatest seasons ever. The process was made public but not the votes. It was then revealed that the PLUS MINUS was not used in the Top 50.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 The fact that someone is on the ice for 3 offensive goals but also on the ice for 2 defensive goals against his own team is the perfect statistical measurement of players from different or same decades--provided the Teams were somewhat similar in talent. Orr played 60% less than Gretzky, yet led the league in plus/minus many more times. A defenseman. When Gretzky's numbers are boiled down to harsh reality, they come in second to Orr. A fact that will torment you in years to come.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

You give too much credit to the plus/minus statistic (but it's Orr's only advantage over Gretzky, I'm not surprised).

These numbers are too much influenced by how good the team you play in is or the players you play with are.

That's why Orr's partner Dallas Smith has the 18th best career +/-, was he that good?

Bob Gainey is considered one of the best defensive forward ever, but he ranks only 64th, he even won the Selke with a -2 season.

Orr never played with a team like the Kings.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Orr's plus/minus is all the more incredible considering--- 1. He was a defenseman. 2. He played on an inferior team compared to Gretzky's. 3. Orr played against every other Team's first line, while Gretzky's coaches, like all coaches, shuffled to get him on the ice against 2nd and 3rd liners as much as possible. This is nothing new with centers and playmakers...4. Orr had a line mate that was as Un-Offensive minded as any man who ever played in the NHL, bar none. D. Smith.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

Not incredible at all.

1.He was a d-man, more ice time on a good team means automatically a great +/- ratio.

2.The Bruins had four straight 50+ wins seasons with Orr, and they had 3 other HoFers, they were as dominant as the Oilers, and way more than the Kings.

3.Did you watch hockey? Gretzky always had the best shut down guy following him like his shadow (he did 50-in-39 against HoFers Clarke and Barber of the Flyers).

4.Orr was lucky to have D.Smith to watch his back.

[TravelerDiogenes]

@Irato99

Not true at all.  Orr did play on a team like the Kings. Orr played with the Blackhawks when they were every bit as unspectacular as the Kings, in the middle of their 47-year Stanley Cup drought.

[Irato99]

@TravelerDiogenes

Come on, Orr played only 26 games on two seasons with the Blackhawks.

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

The Cup argument is worthless, Gretzky eliminated the Oilers after he was traded.

The last year Orr played in the playoffs he was eliminated in the 1st round, the Bruins without Orr went to the semi-finals the next year, and to the Cup finals the year after, and also the year after.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 You may be the only person on planet Earth that has not come to the obvious conclusion that the 80's had more offense than Senior Men's Beer League....and less checking !

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

The Hart trophy makes no distinction about the decade. And everybody usually agrees that the Beer League era occurred right after the '67 expansion.

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Bummer----if those examples of yours are from 1970 it cost Orr a PLUS MINUS rating of +129 and had to settle for a + 124........

[Irato99]

@matt75hooper

These examples are in the '71 playoffs, when it really counts...

[matt75hooper]

@Irato99 Orr's defense partners were the Immortals:

Dallas Smith Rick Smith Don Awrey Something tells me Orr was quite busy at the time of your examples. Were the Bruins shorthanded ? They were often. Was Orr on the ice for most of the game and awaiting a shift change ? Your examples are fantastically subjective. Orr was on the ice for plenty of opposing goals. He just happened to be on the ice for far more goals for his team than any other player.

[matt75hooper]

@BillieBobSmith Orr retired just about the time Gretzky showed up. The NHL went from Beer League to Super Fast in mere months ? You are an idiot. Hockey has always been a very fast game. Even in the 30's. You simply cant tell the difference between a faster game or dump and chace ? Players that did 'average' during your Beer League Years, scored 50, 60 goals during your 'fast years'. If anything---it was a no check league in the 80's.....Orr was the best ever. Period.

[rico305305]

@BillieBobSmith

i work out everday idiot! you are obviously blind!

[MegaSmarterthanyou]

yes , scoclamor, i beleive i was a bit harsh on old "dave dryden",and you mentioned "al smith" i had this nhl "power players" back from the early 70s ,kind of a card or large stamp, in a penguins uniform , cool action photo of him , i loved it , it was so cool!

[rico305305]

@BillieBobSmith

hate on bitch!

im fit as fuck, you can't fuck with me!

you better bring your own army pal!

[MegaSmarterthanyou]

dave dryden ?...what a joke !...how did he make the nhl?

[Scoclamor]

@MegaSmarterthanyou Dave was actually a very good goalie in the WHA. Here's his stat line for 1979:

41 wins (lead league), 2.89 GAA (lead league) 3 SO (lead league).

A lot of the "poor" WHA goalies carved out fine careers in the NHL!

Gerry Cheevers, Al Smith, Richard Brodeur (1982 playoffs!), Ernie Wakely, Bernie Parent, Mike Liut, Pat Riggin, Jacques Plante, Eddie Mio.

[rico305305]

howe is shit!

gretzky is "THE SHIT!"

[Oilblood87]

so this was the WHA All Stars vs. Moscow Dynamo?

[m1sterh0tsauc3]

yep

[ThePKSharma]

HOWE IS THE BEST EVER FOREVER

[Habsfan0206]

PKSharma, true but Bobby Orr was really something else. I have to put Orr as the best followed by Mario, Gretzky, Howe and the Rocket.

[lightsabre5511]

gordie howe, aka miguel escobar, aka woodrow,,,one time long distance lover of edna krabapple

[DiamondJoeQuimby]

"errr, ah, just remember Simpson -- you represent the office of the mayor. So always comport yourself in a manner befitting... quick! Honk at that broad!

i couldn't be happier with the way that played out."

[lightsabre5511]

"vote quimby"

[STAZE27]

Jim Robson's voice is priceless.

[mxte80a]

I saw Gordie play many times at the old Olympia stadium in Detroit.....In his prime he was the epitomie of power and grace. Lots of folks dont remember he was ambidextrius and could shoot from either side. Gordie = greatest player of all time.

[ElVatoloco007]

holy crap dude big words in hockey dont mix well XD ambidextrius>>> what is that ???? you lost me haha

[shayjay3721]

that means he can shoot from right hand or left hand

[ElVatoloco007]

Ya I kinda figured it out after I read mire hahah xD thanks anywho

[matt75hooper]

@mxte80a  I believe Howe's longevity while still playing a high quality game ranks him near the very top. As for the best ever ? I would defer to Howe himself, since the late 60's all the way up to today, he says Orr was the very best ever. I agree with Howe. He has seen every player for 70+ years....

[ververgaert]

Thats a big chunk of Hockey history in Howe and Gretzky. Howe began his NHL career in 1946 and Gretzky finished in 1999 -- a span of more than a half century.

[Patrik8814]

Dynamo Moscow Foreva!!!

[gcdcjccc]

unbelievable that Gretzky had the opportunity to play with Howe

[therrydicule]

In 1979, in the last year of the world hockey association...

He might have learn some little thing with the two Howe (Mark is the sun of Gordy ;) )