Luciano Pavarotti/Joan Sutherland - Vieni fra queste braccia - Live 1976

[SavHub]

check out the recently uploaded rendition by Angela Gheorghiu and Bogdan Mihai!

[bigus]

i don't really like sutherland at all her voice is pretty but i always feel she lacked sufficient technique to stave off the wide wobbly vibrato she developed and carried. she makes every vowel too much of an "O" on top which is over compensation in covering high. a modern day example of this is sarah brightman everything becomes and "O" obviously joan was never that bad its just and example.

[kgarmaker123]

@bigus Very astute comment.. You are right about all of it.

[timsuffolk]

@bigus That is quite a strange comment, as one thing that was always said was how Sutherland's technique was second to none, enabling her to sing for over 40 years. The 'wobble' , although I would describe it as more of a 'beat' comes with age, there is nothing you can do about it! Additionally the vowel ' o' enabled her to produce the beautiful vocal line she was known for.

[bigus]

@timsuffolk there have always been and always will be different schools of thought on what is good/bad technique. also there are lots of people who have had long careers even though they had less than perfect technique. the wobble also comes early with poor technique, "O" in the middle is good for transitioning from low to high but "O" is too open for the high voice imo and poor for brilliance and phonation up top.legato is important until all your words become a 1 vowel mush.thats a crutch imo.

[timsuffolk]

@bigus I am glad you frequently add ' imo' since it is only your opinion, which seems to differ from most trains of thought on technique!

[bigus]

@timsuffolk i add "imo" for the people who get hung up on little things like that and feel they have to respond to tell me that it is in fact my opinion etc. while not infallable i believe my opinion is fairly educated after dedicating so many years to the study of the voice. i would go so far as to say the majority has very little understanding of true technique and thus can't be trusted.most people just repeat what they have heard from this or that critique and have no real knowledge themself

[UchihaGege]

nicolai gedda's version is way much better as usual, and he has shifted the high D!!!

[bigus]

@UchihaGege geddas version is absolutely not better LOL. sure there is a half step difference but pavarotti has a better tone and sounds better throughout imo. why pick a favorite based on 1 note? but hey we each have our opinion!

[UchihaGege]

@bigus I aggree that it's meaningless to judge someone on only 1 note, but for this area, and the whole singing I like gedda more then pavarotti

[spiritenorp]

I saw 3 performances of this in a week's time. Luciano, much as I adored him, was fatter than ever and out of breath from walking across the stage. He was transitioning away from these very high roles and had a lot of trouble with the C#s and D's (understandably). I think Joan actually found it difficult singing this run with him.

[zurriussII]

Sutherland wasn't in good condition maybe but everybody has right to this. Especially the GREAT ones ;)

And we all know that Sutherland was GREAT.

...And Pavarotti... oh, GOD! RIP Maestro.

[arcot9]

WOW......where did those voices go??

[kngiht84]

She sounds flat at 3:06 (or maybe it was muffled by Pavarotti ?!?!?); his high notes are top-notch and I don't know any 67-year-old tenor with poor techniques singing a more than perfect duet in Otello with Diego in his new album.

[Cramnella]

You are right. No one loves Joan more than I, but she's not her best here. This sounds more like 1986 than 1976.

[Mooorhe]

I don't think she was at her best here. This transferred on to YouTube REALLY badly, the real thing sounds much better - sound quality-wise.

I also have a pirate recording made on the opening night of this, she's amazing in it. I bet she's just in bad voice.

[Cramnella]

I agree with you that Joan is just having a (rare) bad night here. I favor her middle 70s voice for its combination of purity, power and maturity, but she's a bit thin here (if still better than 85% of sopranos throughout history!) I love Dame Joan's worst performances as much as I like many of her colleague's best. Not a criticism or judgment; just a personal comment.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Moorhe-While we agree on most things, let's be clear. Domingo made his career based on transposing not only single arias but entire roles. That is disrespectful for everyone else in the cast as they have to transpose as well. And there surely is a big difference between transposing once in a while versus transposing on a constant basis, beginning at the early stages of ones career until the very end. It's dishonest.

[Mooorhe]

What roles did he transpose early apart from Rodolfo?

I have performances of his Faust, Duca, Otello, Calaf, Cavaradossi, Radames and a couple of others untransposed.

He did not transpose entire roles to have a career at all.

[tena2]

what roles you say? he did stop singing calaf on stage fairly young and that role is meant tobe sung by a dramatic tenor like him, cavaradossi only sings 23 minutes in tosca, and it is not a high opera or risky at all, otello? jejee take a look at his last operas as andrea chenier, etc there are all way down, I am sorry but to me this is not art, he took on too many roles over 125 and this is not good, too many choices for his capability, then he pays it off.

[Mooorhe]

He sang Calaf on stage at the Met in 1987 of course, wasn't too great IMO.

[tena2]

I know I watched it, and this is what I mean, he is a very fine singer but he has taken on too many roles, as he wanted to sing it all, he has the rights to do it though but his upper register started extremilly soon to suffer the bad choice of not sticking to his voice´s features so, there you go the results of such a adventure.... regards from spain

[bigus]

@Mooorhe domingo has sung all his life and didn't really take any time to really develope solid technique imo. he pushes his way through almost everything and while the sound is somewhat pleasing for the most part i believe thats why he cannot sing high with any sort of quality.

[gonzalordm]

@bigus Don´t be stupid. Domingo did not develop technique?... hahahahahahahaha... The stupidities one has to read in youtube! All you are genius! He pushes?.. hahahahaha... really you should write a book about knowledge in singing!... IGNORANT!

[gonzalordm]

@tena2 He stopped singing Calaf?...he just sung it like 10 times in all his carreer.

he is not a calaf, he is a great interpreter of Nessun Dorma, not for the rest of the opera.

[gonzalordm]

@tena2 Otro ignorante. Cavaradossi no es un rol difícil?... Te invito a cantar el primer acto. La Recondita Armonia, mira en qué zona está escrita!!!... El dúo con Tosca fácil?... el duetito con Angelotti regalado?... Por favor, cuánta ignorancia hay, pero si se ignora, señores, por favor, al menos no comenten.

[gonzalordm]

@Mooorhe Fille, Tosca (recondita armonia, many times), Trovatore, Chenier, and more. He transposed also, and that is not a problem, not in Pavarotti, not in Domingo, not in Corelli, not in Caruso, all they transposed.

[gonzalordm]

@Mooorhe Hey, my friend, I listen both high note from Pavarotti very well done!

[tena2]

I cannot agree more with you, spot on.

[gonzalordm]

@TheInquisitive4Ever Yoy can talk of transposing more than just arias in Placido´s late carreer. It is not a problem, and it does not deny the artistry and vocal greatness of Domingo´s voice and singing

[gonzalordm]

@TheInquisitive4Ever This is another ignorant Domingo hater. No, Domingo transposed Di quella Pira always (with counted performances in tone) and Che Gelida Manina until de 90´s. Then he debuted Prophete in Viena 1998 and did transposed some parts. Also did in 1982 in Les Troyens. What else? Obviously, after 1996 he did transpose more. After 35 years of no transposed just the ones I mentioned.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Domingo never had a voice which was compatible with the Italian repertoire, especially the lyric repertoire. Domingo sounds hooted and troathy. His upper register is laughable for an alleged top tenor. Anything above an A4 (and quite often the A4 itself) is an error and trial exercise for him.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Tena-You really need a clue you little dimwit. Domingo actually had a nice lyric voice when he was young and tried to pass as tenore lyrico but because of his poor technique (which is either due to his lack of talent or lack hard work to perfect his talent) artificially darkened his voice and re-invented himself early on in his career as a tenore spinto. When that didn't work and he got older, he settled for a tenore dramatico persona. As I said, you really need a big clue.

[tena2]

excuse me? how dare you refering to me like that? I just left a nice comment on you point of view up there somewhere but didnt have a clue you were so idiot, dont you dare talking to me calling me a little dimwil.

And you get a clue, domingo has never been a lyric at all, get a life mate.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

I find it hillarious to see the Tena's nonsensical comments about Pava's B's, C's and Ds etc. Tenors such as Domingo and Carreras struggled with anything above a rudimentary A4 for heaven's sake. I won't even go into their much more fundamental flaws in the vocal technique. Get a clue man.

[tena2]

Get a clue?, let me tell you something you need to remember, I just cant understand why people are so full of their own shit, Why the hell you dare talking like that? I find that problem every fucking day, if you dont like my comment then simply say it but there is no need to rule out others people´s knowledge, by the way, its you how dont hava a clue about singers, how can you compare domingo´s high register with pavarottis? domingo isnt a lyric tenor so he cannot have the easy high notes.

[Mooorhe]

I wouldn't worry too much, TheInquisitive4Ever is exceedingly well known on YouTube for being abusive about Carreras and Domingo and is even more infamous for viciously attacking those who dare to argue with him.

To be fair though, it's not only lyric tenors who get easy high notes. Corelli had very easy high notes, Domingo could have had an effortless top had he worked on his technique more in my opinion.

[tena2]

corelli was actually not a lyric tenor, he was kind of a spinto and yes you are right, would you like to know what I think about domingo´s tecnique?

he sung way too much and way too many things which had nothing to do with his voice, he chose sing it all so then later he pays it off, thats the whole true about domingo´s and carreras. jose had already sung 28 differet opera roles by the age of 20ish so helloooo this is no good for the voice at all, kraus only had sung 24 but he was a master.

[Mooorhe]

That was my point, that Corelli was not a lyric tenor, but still had good high notes.

Domingo wanted to be remarkable for singing many different roles, as a result, he was singing Rodolfo in La boheme and Otello in the same week. It wasn't good for his voice.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Domingo is known for being a career transposer. Not only has he transposed arias but also ENTIRE roles! Big difference. And that was even in the early stages of his career. In the case of La Boheme, he was singing a transposed mediocre version of it as early as 1967. Excluding Carreras's good 5-7 years in his career, he couldn't do much. Even back then he was very good but nothing exceptional.

[Mooorhe]

I beg to differ, Carreras at his best (1971-1979) was nothing short of exceptional. His B was pretty easy back then, and he could do Bs as glorious as his studio Nessun Dorma B live.

To be frank, I don't give a crap that Domingo transposed, and he did actually sing La boheme with a C in the '60s. I don't like Domingo because of his placement and pushed throaty sound, I couldn't care less that he transposed things down slightly.

[tena2]

Well there is no need to use such a way to describe the interest you have in things as Domingo´s transportating whole operas even one tone down, and yes i agree carreras used to be an emazing talented lyric tenor, I cannot agree more with you there, I am known of him and we have chatted about his illness many times and the way that influenced on his voice.

[Mooorhe]

That's interesting... well, if you ever speak to him, let him know that I think he is the greatest tenor ever to come out of Spain :P.

[tena2]

I meant to say that kraus sung 24 more or less in his entire career, buthe was a master in all of them and kept singing them in key until the month he died 1999 when he was almost 72, tis s what a truely dedicated singer is about to opera.

[LordMoe9]

yes but Kraus had a much, much lighter voice and therefore more flexible. Of course I'm not saying he's any less brilliant because of that, it just merely explains how he had such a good range even in his later years.

[LordMoe9]

Carreras stated that high notes never came easy to him, and pushing his voice early in his career made it worse.

[dessayfan]

What can I say? Thank you for this rendition! Grande Sutherland e Grandissimo Pavarotti.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

And why would some idiots out there suggest that Pava lost his C in his early 40s I wonder?

This rendition of Vieni fra queste braccia is fantastic!

[Mooorhe]

Pavarotti still had a live C# aged 55, so he certainly had a C. I'll put up the Addio, addio from the 1990 Rigoletto at the Met soon.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

My point exactly Moorhe. Thanks for your uploads. It showcases Pava wonderfully.

[Mooorhe]

No problem, it feels great to share what I love.

[tena2]

It was me you once said that pavarotti got rid of la fille du regiment very young, in 1985 he was 50 years old so for that, he wanted to sing his la fille du regiment farewell, and no way he could, he went off backstage after his first high note because he could not longer sing it, he knew hi lost his very top notes and called the waiting tenor to finish of the opera, also, cracked on stage many times throughtout his career, he also stopped singing the optional high D in rigoleeto in his 40ish.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Tena-Get your facts straight. I don't kno why but Pava tried singing in the role of Tonio for one last time in 1998 which was disastrous. He was 63 not 50! Try to make sense. Some tenors cannot even dream reaching the height Pava reached at the pinnacle in their career. Take Domingo and Carreras-they've never sung even La Boheme in key..not even once!

[Mooorhe]

You are both wrong, Pavarotti attempted to reprise the role of Tonio in *1995* at the Met with Anderson singing Marie.

Who cares if a tenor transposes a step? And you are wrong, Domingo infact did sing La boheme in key in the '60s.

[tena2]

well I actually care when transposed, if a singer cant sing then stop singing that role then end off, I dont understand why luciano was loved, was he a good tenor? yes but thats it.

[LordMoe9]

Pavarotti was loved not only because he was a great tenor, but he was a charming person, humble, generous, and loved his audience. While many opera/classical music critics/fans shunned him when he sang with pop singers, he didn't care and went along with it because he loves music, loved being with those singers, and was serious about his charity work.

That's why Pavarotti was loved. There are many good singers in history, but no one quite as genial as Luciano.

[tena2]

Right for you expert let me tell you something, domingo has has sung in key and carreras i am not too sure but I can tell, carreras did have the voice when young to actually sing in key, why did he not? I´ll ask email him right now and ask on the other hand, the last time pavarotti tried and cracked on la flle du regiment was in la scalla of milan but I am almost 100 sure. pavarotti did did sing the high D, there are a few clips herein you tube.

[Mooorhe]

I don't think Carreras ever sang La boheme with a C, he was an excellent tenor though... and I've got a recording of him singing La boheme in 1973, the B on Che gelida manina is outstanding.

You are going to e-mail Jose Carreras?

[Mooorhe]

You are very wrong Tena, it was 1995, and opening night was actually a success, he sang all 9 high Bs without any trouble. He was in bad voice for the second performance and couldn't sing the Bs... and cancelled.

All tenors cracked, Pavarotti didn't always cancel when he was in bad voice... that's why he cracked.

He never sang the high D in Rigoletto, which actually can't be called optional, Verdi never gave the option for it, it was interpolated by high placed tenor voices over time.

[tena2]

Pav did at his start sing the high D not all tenors crack my dear.

Take Alfredo kraus´s example, he never cracked in his entire career and never cancelled a perfomance he even sung ill and with flu, of course we knew he was ill after he said days after the perfomance, no one could notice due to his tecnique.

The secrete? not to sing what´s not god for the voice, thats why placido domingo has been transporting half tone or one tone almost all he sings for amost 20 year.

[Mooorhe]

Pavarotti never sang the high D in Rigoletto live... he didn't sing the Possente amor cabaletta live until 1981 anyway.

Alfredo Kraus must have cancelled or cracked at least once in his career. Just because no recordings exist of it, doesn't mean it never happened.

[tena2]

I didnt say pavarotti sung live the high D i said he has sung it, and no, alfredo has never cracked in his entire career, I know everysingle detail about kraus and I have been studying kraus voice and perdomances for over 10 years, was kraus an exeption to nature? no, he was not, he just put music first and then his person, he maid the right choices and eat correectly, looked after his healt all his life and was tecniquely extremelly competitive. Only those condictions makes a voice healthly.

[Mooorhe]

Pavarotti ALWAYS sang the high D in studio recordings, even in his 1993 recording of it.

I'm not questioning your knowledge of Kraus, he was an excellent singer, but I find it hard to believe that he never ever cracked. You could be right, but you'd have to listen to every single piece of his singing (practically impossible as not all are recorded) to state it as fact.

[GermanOperaSinger]

This is one is a fantastic duet and both singers are fantastic here, although Sutherland is a bit past her prime and messes up the C#, Pavarotti here in his prime and never sounded better. Of course the voice became larger later as pearlmuth3 said, although something was lacking in the voice his later years. Prime Pav had one of the most dazzling voices of his time.

[pearlmuth3]

yes on recording especially joan was wonderful and in the house sills with her acting ability and great emotion was very much a force. saw her in hoffman do all 3 roles with the late tenor molese and will never forget it, both sopranos great in different ways.

[pearlmuth3]

I am not a JS fan but enjoyed this early Pavoratti, later his voice was larger of course but not as beautiful as this and she is a solid dependable singer

[Mooorhe]

Well, I think with Sutherland it's a matter of whether you can look past the awful diction and focus on the wonderful singing. I think Sills may have been a better Elvira or at least better at this aria. I love them both, I'm very glad they both had such wonderful careers.

[OettingerCroat]

thanks for sending me this one, Mooorhe... i love the whole friggin' opera, and Pavarotti owns this aria.

and what to say about the high C#'s? glorious, projected beautifully, vibrato off the hook... it's just superb!

5 stars from me :)