I think the biggest example of this in a TV show scenario is The Big Bang theory, where pretty blonde Penny *nolastname* only shows up in episodes with female friends to make a joke about *The* men in the show and her storyline (or lack of thereof) only evolves around the men in the show.
First movie I thought ironically is about as much of a guy movie as you can get but Grindhouse Planet has Cherry Darling played but Rose McGowan talking to Dakota Block played by Mary Shelton about "useless talents". Also the babysitters played by the Avellan twins have a brief conversation with Dakota Block about well babysitting technically nothing to do with a man. Not the film a girl would be looking for but it does pass this test.
The tone of the films listed would be very different if they could pass the test. It would be interesting to see the types of films that come from adhering to equality principles. I can't recall a single film where this has happened that was good from a critic's point of view. (I am NOT implying that a film with female characters can't be, just that I don't remember seeing one.)
Very interesting! I was definitely surprised by several of the movies on that list. To clarify - does a movie pass the test if two named women have a conversation where they talk about something in addition to men or does talking about men at all in the conversation eliminate it from consideration?
We definitely more films with more females in them, preferably doing female things. I noticed that one of the films listed as not passing the test was the first "Pirates of the Caribbean" film. I agree that, despite of the film's quality, it's not a terribly female focused film, although Keira Knightly's Elizabeth Swan is a welcome presence. I feel I must point however that the film does technically pass the test, as Elizabeth does speak to Anamaria(Zoe Saldana) about the Black Pearl's pursuit.
Bizarrely, the anime series Vandread could easily pass this test. That's bizarre because it involves the genders being divided literally by civilisation and a lot of the time is the male characters coming to terms with the gender differences.
If instead of talking about a man they talk about other clichéd, tipically female topics, like fashion or beauty, or criticise other women, would they still pass the Bechdel test even though it is perpetuating a stereotype?
I... I can't even. Watching this video totally blows my mind. First thing I did was go to my vast DVD collection and pull out all the videos that pass the test... the total only came to 5. I consider myself a film buff and movie critic as well as feminist and I'm usually the first of my friends to point out sexism in pop culture. I'm so astonished I never realized exactly how deeply embedded it is...
feministfrequency, I love your videos, especially the Tropes V Women episodes.
You should think critically about the situation around you when your impulse is to say: "It is only natural that...". Most likely what appears natural is culturally constructed and has become invisible due to the repetition of that construction. How much of our world is "natural" anymore?
Almost every script (stage or screen) that I have written passes this test, but I haven't been able get my work produced even with a master's degree in film and a letter of recommendation from a professional dramaturg (in her 50s)..
It's actually very depressing how many people in the comment section miss the point of or argue against the Bechdel Test by saying "x film doesn't count because it's about x male character(s) so of course it wouldn't have (m)any female characters/the women wouldn't talk to each other."
Unfortunately, it's more profitable to appeal to guys.
We have a generation of women who grew up free to choose their entertainment, so they are a lot more open to entertainment appealing to either gender. But men grew up in an environment where coming anywhere close to a barbie doll would get them pummeled by bullies until they can't remember 3rd grade math.
So in the end, the movies appealing to men would attract both genders while movies appealing to women only attract a female audience.
The problem will only be solved when more female filmmakers emerge (what's wrong is not the existence of a male-focused viewpoint, which is only natural, but the exclusion of other viewpoints). The structure of film industry is extremely insular and incestuous: not only few women or minorities, but no access for outsiders who can't/won't play the game.
Fortunately, web distribution/promotion & cheaper technology offer an avenue to correct this; 1 among upshot will be more female-centered films.
I am super happy to report The Wizard of Oz passes the test, and that is a movie from way back in 1939. If a movie back then could do it, I think a movie can do it today.
I never thought of this until now. Just off the top of my head, even lesbian movies do it! Like Love On The Side; two predominant female lead that have a brief encounter, yet all they talk about throughout the entire film is how the other one wants to get with a man! 5+ lesbian movies I thought of, and all of them written by men. All I can say is "What the hell?". lol.
@mzzzhedison Not many decent movies or shows about lesbians. The only movie i can think of is a recent one called "Yes or No" from thailand. It's cute romantic comedy. And everything else is a few anime and some manga.
wow i'm a guy and i never thought about this. her point is well taken, considering all those movies she showed and how many more i just thought of off the top of my head where there's like only one woman and she's somebody's girlfriend or wife, and the rest of the movie is all guys.
Most of the problem is writers/producers lazily following convention. Its more a case of following received wisdom and "playing safe". Because the set-up of male characters has been done so much its easier to write; there's more readily available archetypes to use.
Positive note: In the likes of Cowboy Bebop, Serenity, and Halo Reach we see females in The Lancer role within the 5 Man Band, and in Final Fantasy XIII there are two Alpha Females (Lightning and Fang) in the team.
I'm a male, aspiring filmmaker, and I find your vids very interesting. I too have noticed the lack of (real) strong female characters in films, and I hope to incorporate your info into my screenplay. Keep up the good work!
Por meio deste teste objetivo e direto, percebemos o poder que as representações possuem para a formação dos valores que orientam o nosso comportamento social. fiquei impactado com a constatação. aprendemos, desde mto cedo, de todas as formas que as mulheres devem ser/estar e se submeter aos valores masculinos... em nosso presente, não deve mais haver espaço para comportamentos preconceituosos como sexismo, machismo, falocracia etc.
Leftover sexism I guess, I noticed this too. I didn't at first until I started writing and realized that, out of habit from seeing movies like that, that most of the characters were dudes. If there is a female lead in a movie it's [probably] going to be about romance, which I hate because I'm so tired of romance needlessly appearing in every film. I heard Bridesmaids was actually good (it looked bad) so hopefully that'll help women get better parts now that Hollywood knows it can work.
As a genuine criticism of this test, since a fair few movies these days are character based it would be strange if female characters got together and talked about something other than the main plotline. But I do fully accept that most major movies these days are lead by male protagonists and not female ones, which is the point this is trying to prove.
One of the recent movies I went to see that passed the test was Hanna. Hanna the protagonist, and Marissa, the antagonist, were both female. I like it because Hanna's father leaves her on her own, and she's quite capable. More than capable, actually. Heh. I also quite like Olivia William's character, Rachel, because of her lines.
Pretty cool test, I've know it for a while now. But does anyone now a graphic novel version of it?
It just dawned on me that even though Though Y The Last Man, for obvious reasons, pass the first two requirements gloriously, it actually might fail at the last one. D=
To anyone who has read it, they will understand how the odds ot it actually failing should be practically nil.
Just wondering, but if a film has more than three female characters, but one of them is in a relationship with a male, does that mean that it automatically fails the test?
While there are a lot of movies I like that don't pass this test, some of my favorite movies of all time actually thankfully do: The Haunting (1963 version), Susperia, The Descent, Black Swan, Paranormal Activity, Alien and Aliens, and then even some movies I still enjoy despite them not being in my favorites list, like A Nightmare on Elm Street ('84), Halloween ('78), Scream, Serenity, and You've Got Mail. But you're right, this is a harsh trend; I struggled to think of those titles that pass.
I think it should also include "Do they talk about anything other than incredibly superficial 'girly' things". Sex And The City has almost all women, and they talk about many things other than men (although there is a LOT of talk about men). However, what they talk about is clothes, finding love, shoes, makeup, and other incredibly not-deep things the media perceives as "feminine".
You know what does pass the test? Death Note. Anime, manga, and both movies. Don't get me wrong, I love Death Note, but in twelve books it's got a grand total of three competent women, one of them is inexplicably in love with an idiot who doesn't value her opinions, none are major players, and the two female characters who talk to each other are distinctly not them.
A litmus test for guy cooties doesn't say a lot about how a screenplay values women.
These rules are interesting but very superficial in my opinion. A lot of movies are about love, and thus usually focuses on one man and one woman. The fact that this woman doesn't talk to another woman does not mean that the movie doesn't feature a full-rounded female character. You also have movies like Sunset Blvd. where the central character is female, but she doesn't have another woman to talk to because of her isolation (Psycho comes to mind as well).
@Agnotio The vast majority of movies feature plenty of men talking to other men, even if it's a love story. But the Bechdel test gets you to realize that this doesn't often happen with women. Their purpose in the story ends up hinging on their relationship with the male characters, which seems to indicate that they're always being told from a man's perspective.
@feministfrequency I'm not sure that I'd consider all of those movies "failing" when it comes to your criteria, but most I'd consider to fail this test. It's scary and sad how many do fail. The female characters don't need to be uber feminists heroines and yet so many are failing.
@feministfrequency I don't think that's fair. I mean when a TV series starts to age they'll usually spend whole episodes dedicated to a character or a single relationship. So eventually they're all going to have episodes that meet and fail the bechdel test (if they have >1 female character).
@drew335533 It definitely applies to TV shows. LOST committed this crime all the time. All the women on that show talked about were the men or babies/pregnancy.
There are plenty of named women in LOTR. Eowyn, Arwen, Galadriel, Rosie, The Lobeillia Sackville Baggens etc. And that film doesnt really have LOADS of guy talk, its all about the end of the world and that. And I would have thought you would have liked LOTR because women arent sexualized in it. The only real relationship story is Arwen and Aragorn and all he shows her is love and respect. (Sorry i'm getting defensive, but i'm a real nerd about this kind of thing.)
@Stalkergirl123 The test has nothing to do with whether I did or didn't like a film, so you can still enjoy LOTR's and recognize that it doesn't pass the test.
@Stalkergirl123 lots of women passes question 1 but not 2 or 3. I can't think of a time when the women are talking to each other. Also Arwen was written in MORE so they could pander to a female audience with the stronger presence of a love story. I love the books though.
@JuiceBoxheero No, Eowyn and Arwen actually don't talk as far as I can remember. Arwen didn't go to Rohan with the Fellowship, which is where Eowyn is introduced. The two don't actually meet until the end of the Return of the King and even then they just smile at each other during the celebration. That was it, just the smile. I still love LOTR though <3
@Stalkergirl123 They may not be seriously sexualized but they are definitely glamorized. They are all idealized looking women, pretty women. Non of them were really "plain" or what society deems as "ugly" or "average".
Hey, I love your videos and I love how you point out sexism in our culture in your videos but I have 4 questions. 1: should I go see sucker punch? 2: will you make a video about sucker punch and the director, Zach Snyder? 3: have you read any of Alan Moore's graphic novels? And finally 4: have you seen gone with the wind or Rebecca?
WHOA... awesome! I'd also maybe add, IF the women talk to each other, are they NOT fighting with one another.
I remember so clearly, back in freshman year of college, 1971, asking someone about the newly-formed feminist group I was considering attending - what do you talk about? - and she said, oh, stuff like our relationships [with men]. I was shocked and so very, very disappointed. And I hadn't even thought about the issue before. But it was just so blatant!
It's funny how most people on this thread miss the morale of this video and are stuck in the Bechdel test details. This is not a scientific test, guys, it exists for explanatory purposes only. How many movies out there, especially blockbusters, are employing strong female characters: lawyers, scientists, musicians, entrepreneurs, etc.? Most female characters are either mothers or lovers, best case scenario, or supporting, no name/decision roles the author mentions. It's time to fucking wake up!
If a woman, however, expresses an opinion and talks about something besides a man, but to a man, is she not being given a voice? If she is being listened to, does this not count as an account of a female perspective?
@grayedrainbow Hmm, that could be a loose passing, but ONLY if there's at least one other major female character somewhere in there too. Because when you just have one female character, even if she's strong or moving the plot, she's still "the chick". You need two or more to show that women have distinct personalities as individuals.
It's more of a general, quick way to display that, having them converse. But it's theoretically possible to pass in ESSENCE with your suggested scenario, I think.
Question: If there are two named female characters in a movie interacting with each other and they happen to mention something male-oriented at any time during the film, does that mean the film fails to test? To clarify, will a film only pass the test if the two female characters never speak about or to men at any point during the film?
I just have a question actually about the test. Its pretty clear why you would want more than one female character. Got it. Check. It is pretty obvious why you would want women talking about something other than men as well. But why do the female characters necessarily need to talk to each other? I just want to be clear, I am not in any way saying they should not. I just wonder why not something like "does the woman make a decision that moves the plot forward"?
@squirrelywrath2 I think "does the woman make a decision that moves the plot forward"? is a great question to ask, but in the context of the Bechdel Test, it's a really bare bones, basic test to show just how little women are represented in films. There are movies where a main character is a woman and we see her make decisions but she is the ONLY woman, with a good handful of men around her.
Wait til you see THE ADJUSTMENT BUREAU, the new Matt Damon film!
Two women - they do not talk to each other
But I think it's also in the eyes of the filmmaker - this one was written and directed by the same man. IT DOES NOT EVEN OCCUR TO THEM that they have left out half the human race. CLUELESS. He's a really nice guy but CLUELESS.
@elenlied While the original comic strip has the character who explains the rule saying that she will only see a film that passes the test: A) that's her rule for herself, not a rule for others, and B) most people who bring it up (including myself) are not asking you to boycott films that don't pass the test (some of my favourite films do not pass it, and I don't boycott those films), the point is that women's stories of their lives, which are about more than just men, should be more valued.
The examples seem to (for the most part) fit 3 genres, action, romcom, kids films. Disturbing to think that there's that many examples (just among the ones you highlighted) of movies for children that don't show women talking to each other.
Would discussion of patriarchy count as about men, or would it count as about women because it's about women's rights? I'm not thinking of any movie or anything in particular. I'm just wondering.
@GoingRampant a discussion of patriarchy is absolutely about men because patriarchy is about male identification, male domination, male control. Patriarchy privileges men and oppresses women but it also hurts men. One example is by limiting emotional expression and genuine connections. If you are interested in this I would check out The Gender Knot by Allan Johnson or send me a message for more resources.
Having watched this again I had a thought, anime almost universally passes. Code Geass, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, Sailor Moon, Shugo Chara, All the Gundams (With few if any exceptions even with the OVAs), Strike Witchs (ok...not the best example... but they never even mention guys except as friends, once or twice..in two seasons. and theres a huge cast, all female. Though I still think it needs to be redone with the ecchi toned down, then it would win in every way.), the list goes on and on.
Seriously though that's an interesting test that points to a general belief that men are incapable of empathizing with women and are therefore uninterested in women centric films. I would argue that this doesn't point to sexism in Hollywood as much as it points to sexism in the general population, since Hollywood is happy to put out anything that makes money. Of course, Hollywood perpetuates and strengthens that stereotype, but I'm not willing to say it's the root of that particular sexism.
You have proved that passive sexism exists in Hollywood. How do you suggest this situation be fixed? Some sort of affirmative action in movies? Should there be a quota instituted that makes it so it a certain amount of movies per year pass the Bechdel Test?
@SystemF01 I think it's more important to change how society views women, movies could be a tool for this progression, but movies would also necessarily change as society changes. The bechdel test isn't only showing that hollywood is sexist, it shows hollywood as a microcosm that reflects a sexist society.
token females and romantic subplots are HORRIBLY BORING anyway so it's weird that these are the only visible roles. I guess it's just hard to write for minorities you can't completely understand.
Why are there so few women in all the interesting industries? :(
(I'm a dude by the way; just trying to get my voice heard)
Eowyn in LOTR is a strong woman, who ended up defeating one of the most dangerous oppositions. All because she wasn't a man. So I would let LOTR slide for that.
@KairiTardisAndMe Failing this test doesn't mean a movie's sexist. It means exactly what it measures: that there isn't a large amount of female interaction or representation in that story. And this can be fine for individual movies if it's appropriate for that story, but if the industry as a whole fails the test, then we say that women are underrepresented.
Where in Bechdel's comic does it say that the women have to have names? =O That part of the rule is new to me. Even so, it doesn't add a lot of movies to the 'passed' list.
@AlbatrossNZ If someone wanted to read that into the text that is fine, but that is not the way they were written or the intention of the creators, or frankly how most people view the characters genders. I bet that would make some interesting fanfic though!
@feministfrequency Well at the end of the day its the audience who interprets it and everyone interprets it differently. Films are made to be interpretted. Also really could the creators gotten away with saying "it's a love story about lesbian robots"? Disneys PR team would be all over it like the fire service trying to put out a forest fire.
@AlbatrossNZ I think that more often then not a majority of the audience interprets a film in the way it was presented, as the creators intended it to be read.Of course I'm not saying we all do this, but that many people take what is given as fact (in the film).Seeing as it was Disney I don't think the creators would have ever THOUGHT to make it a love story between 2 women.But I am a big fan of slash and think its great when fans do reimagine & reinterpret films, it's just a minority of viewers
@feministfrequency Well sometimes they do but in other times things don't pan out that way. The movie industry is a bit of a cowboy outfit as you'd know. The THOUGHT of presenting it as a lesbian love story has probably crossed the mind of some in pixar. Some pixar employees are gay as seen with the itgetsbetterproject, good on them for contributing. When you create your brain can think of ideas that you know would be impractical. You've probably thought of some yourself when making this video.
I don't mean to be an ass but a lot of those movies that flashed on the screen are targeted and primarily have cult followings of men. It would have been better if you chose the representative videos to be more targeted at women, with female leads etc. I will admit that women are under-represented, but maybe the market for women is smaller and therefore naturally underrepresented as it is less profitable. It would also be interesting if you also noted what the men talk about and compare.
@Stephen3132 So if a movie is marketed to a predominantly male audience that means it shouldn't have substantial female characters? That would mean men only want to see women as an aside, and not as fully realized characters? Which brings us back to the point that women and women's stories aren't valued... even within an action film.
@feministfrequency: I think there are many men who would think exactly that. I had this talk with one of my husband's colleagues (age 45) who reads sci-fi but told me point blank that he doesn't care whether the women in it are fully realized characters or not "Why would I care about that," he said. Perhaps it's a generational thing, but whenever I discuss just how many female sci-fi authors I read and love or complain about the lack of women in such movies, most men I talk to just shrug.
@feministfrequency Maybe most of the male audience of these films arn't aware of the absence of fully realized female characters but if the producers just happened to put more female characters in the movie the audience would probably still like the movie.This is really about producers wanting to dumb down and simplify plots to reach the largest audience and make the most money. Unfortunately, discussion of patriarchy and gender privilege are still considered an "intellectual endeavour" so to s
@feministfrequency .... so to speak. so as long as that is the case, you will always see the same action movies with basically the same plot and same type of characters with minor tweaks to modernize the story or add a slight twist to make it different then the plethora of other similar movies. This is especially easy to do in movies because even bad movies do well. People go with their friends or they just go to the movies to go out so a lot of people routinely watch bad movies they dont
@Stephen3132 Does that mean that most Hollywood movies are targeted at men? ( granted lack of female presence in them)
Frankly, I don't see a business logic behind your statement. Why would movie makers nearly always market to male audience if more that half of the population of the globe are females? The problem goes beyond profitability imo.
@muntelevenu5 The problem is that if you make a movie with only strong male characters or with only one strong female character, your movie typically has equal appeal to both genders. On the other hand, if you make a movie that focuses around female characters it becomes a "chic movie" and you risk losing your male audience. Now, I understand that you don't need female main characters to meet the criteria of this test, but that's when you get into issues with the flow of the film.
I read somewhere that studios themselves actually have a tendency to deny scripts that do pass this test. I was wondering if the reason there is often shitty tacked on romance stories so common in action films is that after being told to change some directors don't wish to lose certain characters that the studio would have just rendered useless.
To be honest in an action movie I want the dialogue to center around the action regardless of who's talking.
So I was watching West Wing the other day. It's a TV show, there's this scene where two women (CJ and Mandy) are talking to each other about how CJ is preparing to tell the mother of a criminal about to be executed about their death, and the death penalty in general. But the criminal is male. So I couldn't figure out if that meant it passed the test or not cause the conversation wasn't about him really.
So, what's your thought on that?
I do agree it's worrying how often this is utterly failed.
@NethDugan Well it sounds like it doesn't pass (without seeing the scene) but I wouldn't get hung up on the details of it, the test is to give you a sense of how often women and women's stories are not included in films.
I always knew women were underrepresented in films (just as with anything else), but this test is really illuminating. Take the questions in the Bechdel Test and replace 'women' with 'men' and just about every film would pass the test. Amazing.
@pottoco It probably means that she is doing what is expected of her in order to be successful at her job. Even if she did want to make films with more complex and interesting female characters she will have resistance from many levels of the Hollywood movie making machine.
@feministfrequency All due respect, and I truly do hold women in very high regard, but I feel like that is a load of crap. This woman is a tremendously talented writer/filmmaker, who just enjoys a certain dynamic. Her work reflects that of what she enjoys to read, a lot like myself. All of her work has centered around a single woman, one in which had strength and determination, but does seem to be alone in a world with men.
@pottoco Then why did you ask me about it? I'm not doubting her skills or the quality of her work I'm just saying there is a standard and formula for Hollywood films (I don't even know if she works in Hollywood). Her female character could be wonderfully dynamic and complex but women don't exist in a world without other women. This is not a commentary on her skills, this is a commentary on what is expected and what is supported in Hollywood.
@feministfrequency Incidentally, I tend to write the same way, as a man -- a single strong women in the midst of idiotic men, which for me in a sense is how I see life, or that which appeals to me. Meaning, I am attracted to strong, passionate, and ambitious women, and tend to find most men pushy, and whiny. Anyway my point is, where as I'm sure a lot of these movies listed don't have any seriously strong women within, I'm also unsure of its validity as a test.
@pottoco Watch the video again, I clearly state that the test is not an indicator of the quality or substance of the film... just that it is a far too common trend that women are not fully realized complex characters. And many of the exceptions to that are what you stated, one strong woman and a bunch of men surrounding her, which frankly, is kind of ridiculous.
@feministfrequency Well my personal belief, as an artist working at a lower level in this business, ie Hollywood, is that we do write about what we know, which is as the goes. I personally spend most of my time with woman, and don't really have to many male friends. So I write about what I'm interested in, strong women in a fantasy setting. Obviously, this does not stand for everyone, and some folks are just plain sexist, like David Mamet, for instance.
@feministfrequency But as a male writer, I do tend to write about what interests me, and what i'd want to see, and then I keep that within the realm of who I am. Granted, as i've mentioned, a lot of people may be sexist, and that'll just naturally come out of them. The real problem is with the industry. There need to be more female voices making films, because for the most part, they are all men, and that is the thing that need to be fixed. Some of my favorites in Hollywood are women, too few.
@feministfrequency I sensorially don't mean to insight any animosity, i just feel as though the issue is great than forcing these men, and women to think different in their work, but rather, to educate them in their lives. The same holds true with racism.
This doesn't even take into account the movies where the women are talking about things irrelevant to the plot or theme (while just providing filler, comic relief or some background information) while the men carry all the important and substantial dialogue.
@Culiccidae Methinks that these don't actually pass. It has to be something we actually want to hear about in relation to plot for it to be a real conversation.
This is due to the scripts that get turned into films. If there is no female-to-female dialogue (about topics other than men) in the script, the film that results will be likely to share that sexism problem. It's an interesting test. I just wonder how the writing and selection of film scripts can be influenced in a positive way? It's down to Hollywood traditions that have deep roots. All popular films have to be traditional love stories, adventure, war, etc. Women need to become scriptwriters.
Pulp Fiction (1:19) passes. Jody and Trudy (Lance's wife and her friend) are talking about piercings. I think you learn their names in a scene shortly following the scene in which they talk, so it's not immediately obvious
God, I love a lot of those films on there (TDK, The Truman Show, LOTR etc.) but for some such as Reservoir Dogs and Milk, there was a reason why there weren't women in it because it is a male centric film but X-Men does involve women speaking about something other than men, and I'm sure in Toy Story there were conversations involving Andy's mum and sister.
Either way, every industry has always been extremely sexist, it's just sad that in the 21st century stuff like this still goes on.
@FishRabies Milk always pisses me off though, because it seems to think the gay rights movement existed without any lesbians at all. Oh no, wait, they featured one. Other than that it is brilliant film though.
@FishRabies I love you way you say "Andy's mum & sister". I think it just failed the test at that point. Do they have names (that we remember from the movie...)
@FatherTime89 Andy's sister's name is Molly. Sally is the name of Sid's little sister's doll. His little sister's name is Hannah. And both of their mothers go my Mom.
I like the rule about women having to talk to one another without discussing men, but I don't really think it's necessary for there to be two or more women in it. Just my two cents.
Even the rule about discussing men is flawed, as it doesn't differentiate the nature of the conversation.
The assumption is that they're talking about a romantic interest in the man or something which feeds the male character. If they just happen to be discussing another character that happens to be male, it's broken a rule.
For example, Iron Man 2 breaks the rule, but given that Iron Man/Tony Stark is the title character, the majority of conversations are about him.
@TheBoomViper Alien 1 and 2 pass the test (I believe). Terminator 1 and 2 sort of pass (there is some debate). I think that the characters of Ripley and Sarah Connor are historically important in feminist film theory as they represent some of the first strong female characters. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying they are "feminist" films.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, T2 is a dark film, and Sarah Connor is a terminator-like powerhouse, but she still has emotional depth, and that makes a big difference. Same with Ellen Ripley in Aliens.
I gather Titanic passes this type of test as well...?
@feministfrequency They are. And in X-Men, the female characters are not the strong characters they were in the original comics. Storm, especially, was robbed of her multidimensionality, strength and power when the cast Halle Berry and took away almost all her speaking parts. And she was an original X-Man!
Depends, are we counting robots as being gendered? AUTO seems male to me, and he and "Captain" (I'd go ahead and say that counts as a name) have some non-female centric interaction. Wall-E and M-O (male? I think male) have some non-female centric interaction as well.
This is actually a pretty cool theory, because you really WOULD expect more movies to pass such a simple set of rules. Weird eh? It really does seem like a pattern the more I think of it.
I think the biggest example of this in a TV show scenario is The Big Bang theory, where pretty blonde Penny *nolastname* only shows up in episodes with female friends to make a joke about *The* men in the show and her storyline (or lack of thereof) only evolves around the men in the show.
lasofia13 1 week ago
'Buellers day off has about 4 female characters, the sister, sloan (or whatever), the mum, and the secretary. I do believe the mum/sister talk? hmm
jacob2123able 2 weeks ago
@jacob2123able I believe they only talk about Ferris.
feministfrequency 1 week ago
Feminism is the radical notion that woman are people
1navyseal1962 2 weeks ago 4
First movie I thought ironically is about as much of a guy movie as you can get but Grindhouse Planet has Cherry Darling played but Rose McGowan talking to Dakota Block played by Mary Shelton about "useless talents". Also the babysitters played by the Avellan twins have a brief conversation with Dakota Block about well babysitting technically nothing to do with a man. Not the film a girl would be looking for but it does pass this test.
CrazyFoo501 3 months ago
The tone of the films listed would be very different if they could pass the test. It would be interesting to see the types of films that come from adhering to equality principles. I can't recall a single film where this has happened that was good from a critic's point of view. (I am NOT implying that a film with female characters can't be, just that I don't remember seeing one.)
skyerune 4 months ago
Very interesting! I was definitely surprised by several of the movies on that list. To clarify - does a movie pass the test if two named women have a conversation where they talk about something in addition to men or does talking about men at all in the conversation eliminate it from consideration?
lotharstar 4 months ago
We definitely more films with more females in them, preferably doing female things. I noticed that one of the films listed as not passing the test was the first "Pirates of the Caribbean" film. I agree that, despite of the film's quality, it's not a terribly female focused film, although Keira Knightly's Elizabeth Swan is a welcome presence. I feel I must point however that the film does technically pass the test, as Elizabeth does speak to Anamaria(Zoe Saldana) about the Black Pearl's pursuit.
EmperorXunks 4 months ago
Bizarrely, the anime series Vandread could easily pass this test. That's bizarre because it involves the genders being divided literally by civilisation and a lot of the time is the male characters coming to terms with the gender differences.
Lyinginbedmon 4 months ago
If instead of talking about a man they talk about other clichéd, tipically female topics, like fashion or beauty, or criticise other women, would they still pass the Bechdel test even though it is perpetuating a stereotype?
pinkeegoobox 4 months ago 24
I... I can't even. Watching this video totally blows my mind. First thing I did was go to my vast DVD collection and pull out all the videos that pass the test... the total only came to 5. I consider myself a film buff and movie critic as well as feminist and I'm usually the first of my friends to point out sexism in pop culture. I'm so astonished I never realized exactly how deeply embedded it is...
feministfrequency, I love your videos, especially the Tropes V Women episodes.
wickedsquid 4 months ago 17
You should think critically about the situation around you when your impulse is to say: "It is only natural that...". Most likely what appears natural is culturally constructed and has become invisible due to the repetition of that construction. How much of our world is "natural" anymore?
firys23 4 months ago 14
Well that was adequately depressing. I think I need to go watch Tank Girl again.
Zezili 4 months ago 6
Almost every script (stage or screen) that I have written passes this test, but I haven't been able get my work produced even with a master's degree in film and a letter of recommendation from a professional dramaturg (in her 50s)..
scottandrewhutchins 4 months ago 12
It's actually very depressing how many people in the comment section miss the point of or argue against the Bechdel Test by saying "x film doesn't count because it's about x male character(s) so of course it wouldn't have (m)any female characters/the women wouldn't talk to each other."
No shit! That's why it doesn't pass the test!
Give1Take2 4 months ago 12
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS. THANKS.
InsaneWizA 5 months ago
Unfortunately, it's more profitable to appeal to guys.
We have a generation of women who grew up free to choose their entertainment, so they are a lot more open to entertainment appealing to either gender. But men grew up in an environment where coming anywhere close to a barbie doll would get them pummeled by bullies until they can't remember 3rd grade math.
So in the end, the movies appealing to men would attract both genders while movies appealing to women only attract a female audience.
flashfox466 5 months ago 7
The problem will only be solved when more female filmmakers emerge (what's wrong is not the existence of a male-focused viewpoint, which is only natural, but the exclusion of other viewpoints). The structure of film industry is extremely insular and incestuous: not only few women or minorities, but no access for outsiders who can't/won't play the game.
Fortunately, web distribution/promotion & cheaper technology offer an avenue to correct this; 1 among upshot will be more female-centered films.
MovieMan0283 6 months ago
@MovieMan0283 "male-focused viewpoint, which is only natural" r u implying that hatred towards women is natural?
MrNemy86 5 months ago
@MrNemy86 No i think they are implying tht male film makers will inherently have a male viewpoint (re: its only natural)
cthendri 5 months ago
I am super happy to report The Wizard of Oz passes the test, and that is a movie from way back in 1939. If a movie back then could do it, I think a movie can do it today.
Jessethegoodwitch 6 months ago 7
I never thought of this until now. Just off the top of my head, even lesbian movies do it! Like Love On The Side; two predominant female lead that have a brief encounter, yet all they talk about throughout the entire film is how the other one wants to get with a man! 5+ lesbian movies I thought of, and all of them written by men. All I can say is "What the hell?". lol.
mzzzhedison 6 months ago
@mzzzhedison Not many decent movies or shows about lesbians. The only movie i can think of is a recent one called "Yes or No" from thailand. It's cute romantic comedy. And everything else is a few anime and some manga.
Zaknafiein 5 months ago
Wow! This is awesome. (I met Alison Bechdel at Comic-Con and she is pretty awesome.)
AmanAboutTown 6 months ago
wow i'm a guy and i never thought about this. her point is well taken, considering all those movies she showed and how many more i just thought of off the top of my head where there's like only one woman and she's somebody's girlfriend or wife, and the rest of the movie is all guys.
greasemonkey1228 7 months ago 14
excellent questions..
anitasseo 7 months ago
amen.
Rosieuchiha 7 months ago
Ironically, Sucker Punch passes this test,
MelinaPendulum 7 months ago 14
Most of the problem is writers/producers lazily following convention. Its more a case of following received wisdom and "playing safe". Because the set-up of male characters has been done so much its easier to write; there's more readily available archetypes to use.
Positive note: In the likes of Cowboy Bebop, Serenity, and Halo Reach we see females in The Lancer role within the 5 Man Band, and in Final Fantasy XIII there are two Alpha Females (Lightning and Fang) in the team.
Relugus 8 months ago
I'm a male, aspiring filmmaker, and I find your vids very interesting. I too have noticed the lack of (real) strong female characters in films, and I hope to incorporate your info into my screenplay. Keep up the good work!
EpicNinja7000 8 months ago 11
Por meio deste teste objetivo e direto, percebemos o poder que as representações possuem para a formação dos valores que orientam o nosso comportamento social. fiquei impactado com a constatação. aprendemos, desde mto cedo, de todas as formas que as mulheres devem ser/estar e se submeter aos valores masculinos... em nosso presente, não deve mais haver espaço para comportamentos preconceituosos como sexismo, machismo, falocracia etc.
euzebiocarvalho 8 months ago
Leftover sexism I guess, I noticed this too. I didn't at first until I started writing and realized that, out of habit from seeing movies like that, that most of the characters were dudes. If there is a female lead in a movie it's [probably] going to be about romance, which I hate because I'm so tired of romance needlessly appearing in every film. I heard Bridesmaids was actually good (it looked bad) so hopefully that'll help women get better parts now that Hollywood knows it can work.
Enemynarwhal 8 months ago
@Enemynarwhal Bridesmaids is really good, and does pass this test. There is some romance in it but it does not drive the plot, which I like.
dontfeedthebookworm 7 months ago 2
Oh, and on a website that tracks such things, half the movies on its list actually pass.
dallan007 8 months ago
As a genuine criticism of this test, since a fair few movies these days are character based it would be strange if female characters got together and talked about something other than the main plotline. But I do fully accept that most major movies these days are lead by male protagonists and not female ones, which is the point this is trying to prove.
jdenicholls 8 months ago
How many Harry Potter movies actually pass this test? I think only Chamber of Secrets.
dallan007 8 months ago
@dallan007 Actually off the top of my head, the first, fourth, fifth, and sixth HP pass.
coolbean08 7 months ago
One of the recent movies I went to see that passed the test was Hanna. Hanna the protagonist, and Marissa, the antagonist, were both female. I like it because Hanna's father leaves her on her own, and she's quite capable. More than capable, actually. Heh. I also quite like Olivia William's character, Rachel, because of her lines.
IllyriaGodKing 8 months ago
Surprisingly enough, Thor actually passes, albeit marginally.
dallan007 8 months ago
Pretty cool test, I've know it for a while now. But does anyone now a graphic novel version of it?
It just dawned on me that even though Though Y The Last Man, for obvious reasons, pass the first two requirements gloriously, it actually might fail at the last one. D=
To anyone who has read it, they will understand how the odds ot it actually failing should be practically nil.
cormano64 8 months ago
Just wondering, but if a film has more than three female characters, but one of them is in a relationship with a male, does that mean that it automatically fails the test?
Scifimaster92 8 months ago
@Scifimaster92 No. It fails the test ONLY if these female characters don't talk to each other or, if they do, if they only talk about men.
alrune8 8 months ago
Get a good friendship with good girls naneedj.info
darshi48 8 months ago
While there are a lot of movies I like that don't pass this test, some of my favorite movies of all time actually thankfully do: The Haunting (1963 version), Susperia, The Descent, Black Swan, Paranormal Activity, Alien and Aliens, and then even some movies I still enjoy despite them not being in my favorites list, like A Nightmare on Elm Street ('84), Halloween ('78), Scream, Serenity, and You've Got Mail. But you're right, this is a harsh trend; I struggled to think of those titles that pass.
darkmoose84 9 months ago
I think it should also include "Do they talk about anything other than incredibly superficial 'girly' things". Sex And The City has almost all women, and they talk about many things other than men (although there is a LOT of talk about men). However, what they talk about is clothes, finding love, shoes, makeup, and other incredibly not-deep things the media perceives as "feminine".
krybski 9 months ago 5
Add a few stipulations
4. Do the two women not make out (Mulholland Dr. Black Swan)
5. Do they refrain from using phrases "as if" and "Seriously"
psynema 9 months ago
You know what does pass the test? Death Note. Anime, manga, and both movies. Don't get me wrong, I love Death Note, but in twelve books it's got a grand total of three competent women, one of them is inexplicably in love with an idiot who doesn't value her opinions, none are major players, and the two female characters who talk to each other are distinctly not them.
A litmus test for guy cooties doesn't say a lot about how a screenplay values women.
BlueReckless 9 months ago
These rules are interesting but very superficial in my opinion. A lot of movies are about love, and thus usually focuses on one man and one woman. The fact that this woman doesn't talk to another woman does not mean that the movie doesn't feature a full-rounded female character. You also have movies like Sunset Blvd. where the central character is female, but she doesn't have another woman to talk to because of her isolation (Psycho comes to mind as well).
Agnotio 9 months ago
@Agnotio The vast majority of movies feature plenty of men talking to other men, even if it's a love story. But the Bechdel test gets you to realize that this doesn't often happen with women. Their purpose in the story ends up hinging on their relationship with the male characters, which seems to indicate that they're always being told from a man's perspective.
Culiccidae 9 months ago 6
Could this be applied to TV shows as well?
drew335533 9 months ago 6
@drew335533 Yes, some people do apply it to TV shows but it's usually applied episode to episode.
feministfrequency 9 months ago 15
@feministfrequency I'm not sure that I'd consider all of those movies "failing" when it comes to your criteria, but most I'd consider to fail this test. It's scary and sad how many do fail. The female characters don't need to be uber feminists heroines and yet so many are failing.
5chocolatedragon 9 months ago
@feministfrequency I don't think that's fair. I mean when a TV series starts to age they'll usually spend whole episodes dedicated to a character or a single relationship. So eventually they're all going to have episodes that meet and fail the bechdel test (if they have >1 female character).
FatherTime89 9 months ago 6
@FatherTime89 I don't apply it to TV because I don't think it actually demonstrates anything, but some people do.
feministfrequency 9 months ago 2
@drew335533 It definitely applies to TV shows. LOST committed this crime all the time. All the women on that show talked about were the men or babies/pregnancy.
motorghost 8 months ago
There are plenty of named women in LOTR. Eowyn, Arwen, Galadriel, Rosie, The Lobeillia Sackville Baggens etc. And that film doesnt really have LOADS of guy talk, its all about the end of the world and that. And I would have thought you would have liked LOTR because women arent sexualized in it. The only real relationship story is Arwen and Aragorn and all he shows her is love and respect. (Sorry i'm getting defensive, but i'm a real nerd about this kind of thing.)
Stalkergirl123 10 months ago 25
@Stalkergirl123 The test has nothing to do with whether I did or didn't like a film, so you can still enjoy LOTR's and recognize that it doesn't pass the test.
feministfrequency 10 months ago 124
@feministfrequency Yeah, LOTR only gets 2 out of 3, but that doesn't make it a bad movie.
dallan007 8 months ago
@Stalkergirl123 lots of women passes question 1 but not 2 or 3. I can't think of a time when the women are talking to each other. Also Arwen was written in MORE so they could pander to a female audience with the stronger presence of a love story. I love the books though.
ammre 8 months ago
@Stalkergirl123 don't Eowyn and Arwen talk to each other at some point? it might have been in the extended version. I think I will rewatch them again
JuiceBoxheero 8 months ago
@JuiceBoxheero No, Eowyn and Arwen actually don't talk as far as I can remember. Arwen didn't go to Rohan with the Fellowship, which is where Eowyn is introduced. The two don't actually meet until the end of the Return of the King and even then they just smile at each other during the celebration. That was it, just the smile. I still love LOTR though <3
Sunshine44008 7 months ago 4
@Stalkergirl123 They may not be seriously sexualized but they are definitely glamorized. They are all idealized looking women, pretty women. Non of them were really "plain" or what society deems as "ugly" or "average".
Jellobabysnumber1fan 8 months ago
Hey, I love your videos and I love how you point out sexism in our culture in your videos but I have 4 questions. 1: should I go see sucker punch? 2: will you make a video about sucker punch and the director, Zach Snyder? 3: have you read any of Alan Moore's graphic novels? And finally 4: have you seen gone with the wind or Rebecca?
bobster5412 10 months ago
PS I cannot BELIEVE the commenter who doesn't understand why women should talk to EACH OTHER.
red19bridge 10 months ago
WHOA... awesome! I'd also maybe add, IF the women talk to each other, are they NOT fighting with one another.
I remember so clearly, back in freshman year of college, 1971, asking someone about the newly-formed feminist group I was considering attending - what do you talk about? - and she said, oh, stuff like our relationships [with men]. I was shocked and so very, very disappointed. And I hadn't even thought about the issue before. But it was just so blatant!
red19bridge 10 months ago
It's funny how most people on this thread miss the morale of this video and are stuck in the Bechdel test details. This is not a scientific test, guys, it exists for explanatory purposes only. How many movies out there, especially blockbusters, are employing strong female characters: lawyers, scientists, musicians, entrepreneurs, etc.? Most female characters are either mothers or lovers, best case scenario, or supporting, no name/decision roles the author mentions. It's time to fucking wake up!
muntelevenu5 10 months ago 10
If a woman, however, expresses an opinion and talks about something besides a man, but to a man, is she not being given a voice? If she is being listened to, does this not count as an account of a female perspective?
grayedrainbow 10 months ago
@grayedrainbow Hmm, that could be a loose passing, but ONLY if there's at least one other major female character somewhere in there too. Because when you just have one female character, even if she's strong or moving the plot, she's still "the chick". You need two or more to show that women have distinct personalities as individuals.
It's more of a general, quick way to display that, having them converse. But it's theoretically possible to pass in ESSENCE with your suggested scenario, I think.
xZaCloudx 10 months ago
i'm loving your videos. thanks for furthering my budding feminism.
grayedrainbow 10 months ago 2
Question: If there are two named female characters in a movie interacting with each other and they happen to mention something male-oriented at any time during the film, does that mean the film fails to test? To clarify, will a film only pass the test if the two female characters never speak about or to men at any point during the film?
kukochan 10 months ago
@kukochan No the test doesn't fail if they speak to or/about a man, only if that is *all* they do.
feministfrequency 10 months ago 9
I just have a question actually about the test. Its pretty clear why you would want more than one female character. Got it. Check. It is pretty obvious why you would want women talking about something other than men as well. But why do the female characters necessarily need to talk to each other? I just want to be clear, I am not in any way saying they should not. I just wonder why not something like "does the woman make a decision that moves the plot forward"?
squirrelywrath2 11 months ago 5
@squirrelywrath2 I think "does the woman make a decision that moves the plot forward"? is a great question to ask, but in the context of the Bechdel Test, it's a really bare bones, basic test to show just how little women are represented in films. There are movies where a main character is a woman and we see her make decisions but she is the ONLY woman, with a good handful of men around her.
feministfrequency 11 months ago
Theater has this same problem. Not nearly enough women's roles, and very few strong ones.
That being said, you took a really tiny bite out of that apple.
NinjaStarODavid 11 months ago 2
Wow, I never noticed this, I really need to pay more attention to these things.
Thanks for enlightening me.
MissMysterics 11 months ago
This is brilliant
Wait til you see THE ADJUSTMENT BUREAU, the new Matt Damon film!
Two women - they do not talk to each other
But I think it's also in the eyes of the filmmaker - this one was written and directed by the same man. IT DOES NOT EVEN OCCUR TO THEM that they have left out half the human race. CLUELESS. He's a really nice guy but CLUELESS.
SrRosePacatte 11 months ago
Its really a shame. A lot (maybe all?) of movies in this list have men that could be replaced for a women in the main role.
marcioscheibel 11 months ago 2
Well, this is true, but if i only watch movies aplying that rule id only be limited to maybe a couple of movies a year.
elenlied 11 months ago
@elenlied While the original comic strip has the character who explains the rule saying that she will only see a film that passes the test: A) that's her rule for herself, not a rule for others, and B) most people who bring it up (including myself) are not asking you to boycott films that don't pass the test (some of my favourite films do not pass it, and I don't boycott those films), the point is that women's stories of their lives, which are about more than just men, should be more valued.
KinoHermesJourney 11 months ago
Wow, this is a real eye opener for me!
AnneloesF 1 year ago 8
Sooooo... less whining and more script writing.
dockdrumming 1 year ago
@dockdrumming What do you feel is most true:
A) Few women actually try to write a script instead of whining.
B) Hollywood isn't all that open about letting many women write screenplays to begin with.
cormano64 8 months ago
The examples seem to (for the most part) fit 3 genres, action, romcom, kids films. Disturbing to think that there's that many examples (just among the ones you highlighted) of movies for children that don't show women talking to each other.
Christina Moorshead
Christinamoorshead1 1 year ago 3
Would discussion of patriarchy count as about men, or would it count as about women because it's about women's rights? I'm not thinking of any movie or anything in particular. I'm just wondering.
GoingRampant 1 year ago
@GoingRampant a discussion of patriarchy is absolutely about men because patriarchy is about male identification, male domination, male control. Patriarchy privileges men and oppresses women but it also hurts men. One example is by limiting emotional expression and genuine connections. If you are interested in this I would check out The Gender Knot by Allan Johnson or send me a message for more resources.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 3
Having watched this again I had a thought, anime almost universally passes. Code Geass, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, Sailor Moon, Shugo Chara, All the Gundams (With few if any exceptions even with the OVAs), Strike Witchs (ok...not the best example... but they never even mention guys except as friends, once or twice..in two seasons. and theres a huge cast, all female. Though I still think it needs to be redone with the ecchi toned down, then it would win in every way.), the list goes on and on.
LurkingGoblin 1 year ago 3
Seriously though that's an interesting test that points to a general belief that men are incapable of empathizing with women and are therefore uninterested in women centric films. I would argue that this doesn't point to sexism in Hollywood as much as it points to sexism in the general population, since Hollywood is happy to put out anything that makes money. Of course, Hollywood perpetuates and strengthens that stereotype, but I'm not willing to say it's the root of that particular sexism.
TheLoquid 1 year ago 4
You have proved that passive sexism exists in Hollywood. How do you suggest this situation be fixed? Some sort of affirmative action in movies? Should there be a quota instituted that makes it so it a certain amount of movies per year pass the Bechdel Test?
SystemF01 1 year ago
@SystemF01 I think it's more important to change how society views women, movies could be a tool for this progression, but movies would also necessarily change as society changes. The bechdel test isn't only showing that hollywood is sexist, it shows hollywood as a microcosm that reflects a sexist society.
ferriswheeljunkie 1 year ago 5
Are there any movies that pass perfectly?
token females and romantic subplots are HORRIBLY BORING anyway so it's weird that these are the only visible roles. I guess it's just hard to write for minorities you can't completely understand.
Why are there so few women in all the interesting industries? :(
(I'm a dude by the way; just trying to get my voice heard)
kcirtap2 1 year ago
I wonder is the Sex and the City movies pass.
polymphus 1 year ago
@polymphus Ya it passes, but that is further evidence that this is not a test to gauge the quality of a film.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 21
@polymphus why would you wonder about that? try to focus on most movies that come out, not ONE movie that is specifically targeted at women.
muntelevenu5 10 months ago
Eowyn in LOTR is a strong woman, who ended up defeating one of the most dangerous oppositions. All because she wasn't a man. So I would let LOTR slide for that.
KairiTardisAndMe 1 year ago 8
@KairiTardisAndMe Failing this test doesn't mean a movie's sexist. It means exactly what it measures: that there isn't a large amount of female interaction or representation in that story. And this can be fine for individual movies if it's appropriate for that story, but if the industry as a whole fails the test, then we say that women are underrepresented.
xenigirl 1 year ago 7
@KairiTardisAndMe eh..Eowin verus 256887797 other male characters.
muntelevenu5 10 months ago
We've been studying female representation in Media Studies and this has never come up so this gold. THANK YOU :)
babe9305 1 year ago 2
Where in Bechdel's comic does it say that the women have to have names? =O That part of the rule is new to me. Even so, it doesn't add a lot of movies to the 'passed' list.
rebekkabua 1 year ago
@rebekkabua It wasn't apart of the original comic, it was added latter on.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 2
Some would say Wall-E and EVE were esbians.
AlbatrossNZ 1 year ago
@AlbatrossNZ If someone wanted to read that into the text that is fine, but that is not the way they were written or the intention of the creators, or frankly how most people view the characters genders. I bet that would make some interesting fanfic though!
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Well at the end of the day its the audience who interprets it and everyone interprets it differently. Films are made to be interpretted. Also really could the creators gotten away with saying "it's a love story about lesbian robots"? Disneys PR team would be all over it like the fire service trying to put out a forest fire.
AlbatrossNZ 1 year ago
@AlbatrossNZ I think that more often then not a majority of the audience interprets a film in the way it was presented, as the creators intended it to be read.Of course I'm not saying we all do this, but that many people take what is given as fact (in the film).Seeing as it was Disney I don't think the creators would have ever THOUGHT to make it a love story between 2 women.But I am a big fan of slash and think its great when fans do reimagine & reinterpret films, it's just a minority of viewers
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Well sometimes they do but in other times things don't pan out that way. The movie industry is a bit of a cowboy outfit as you'd know. The THOUGHT of presenting it as a lesbian love story has probably crossed the mind of some in pixar. Some pixar employees are gay as seen with the itgetsbetterproject, good on them for contributing. When you create your brain can think of ideas that you know would be impractical. You've probably thought of some yourself when making this video.
AlbatrossNZ 1 year ago
I don't mean to be an ass but a lot of those movies that flashed on the screen are targeted and primarily have cult followings of men. It would have been better if you chose the representative videos to be more targeted at women, with female leads etc. I will admit that women are under-represented, but maybe the market for women is smaller and therefore naturally underrepresented as it is less profitable. It would also be interesting if you also noted what the men talk about and compare.
Stephen3132 1 year ago
@Stephen3132 So if a movie is marketed to a predominantly male audience that means it shouldn't have substantial female characters? That would mean men only want to see women as an aside, and not as fully realized characters? Which brings us back to the point that women and women's stories aren't valued... even within an action film.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 105
@feministfrequency: I think there are many men who would think exactly that. I had this talk with one of my husband's colleagues (age 45) who reads sci-fi but told me point blank that he doesn't care whether the women in it are fully realized characters or not "Why would I care about that," he said. Perhaps it's a generational thing, but whenever I discuss just how many female sci-fi authors I read and love or complain about the lack of women in such movies, most men I talk to just shrug.
eviltwit73 1 year ago 4
@feministfrequency Maybe most of the male audience of these films arn't aware of the absence of fully realized female characters but if the producers just happened to put more female characters in the movie the audience would probably still like the movie.This is really about producers wanting to dumb down and simplify plots to reach the largest audience and make the most money. Unfortunately, discussion of patriarchy and gender privilege are still considered an "intellectual endeavour" so to s
sealhunta 11 months ago
@feministfrequency .... so to speak. so as long as that is the case, you will always see the same action movies with basically the same plot and same type of characters with minor tweaks to modernize the story or add a slight twist to make it different then the plethora of other similar movies. This is especially easy to do in movies because even bad movies do well. People go with their friends or they just go to the movies to go out so a lot of people routinely watch bad movies they dont
sealhunta 11 months ago
@feministfrequency ...they don't even really like, so the movie still makes money anyways.
sealhunta 11 months ago
@Stephen3132 Does that mean that most Hollywood movies are targeted at men? ( granted lack of female presence in them)
Frankly, I don't see a business logic behind your statement. Why would movie makers nearly always market to male audience if more that half of the population of the globe are females? The problem goes beyond profitability imo.
muntelevenu5 10 months ago
@muntelevenu5 The problem is that if you make a movie with only strong male characters or with only one strong female character, your movie typically has equal appeal to both genders. On the other hand, if you make a movie that focuses around female characters it becomes a "chic movie" and you risk losing your male audience. Now, I understand that you don't need female main characters to meet the criteria of this test, but that's when you get into issues with the flow of the film.
mchlbb 10 months ago
@feministfrequency I meant to vote you up! Awesome reply!
huhwtf88 5 months ago
The film I Have Heard the Mermaids Singing passes the test, but this may be because all of its characters are female.
drone5 1 year ago
I read somewhere that studios themselves actually have a tendency to deny scripts that do pass this test. I was wondering if the reason there is often shitty tacked on romance stories so common in action films is that after being told to change some directors don't wish to lose certain characters that the studio would have just rendered useless.
To be honest in an action movie I want the dialogue to center around the action regardless of who's talking.
Dadalama 1 year ago
this really opened my eyes
ThadiusSLove 1 year ago
Are there examples of films that do pass this test?
hannigarla 1 year ago
@hannigarla check out bechdetest [dot] com for a huge list of movies that do and don't pass the test.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 3
So I was watching West Wing the other day. It's a TV show, there's this scene where two women (CJ and Mandy) are talking to each other about how CJ is preparing to tell the mother of a criminal about to be executed about their death, and the death penalty in general. But the criminal is male. So I couldn't figure out if that meant it passed the test or not cause the conversation wasn't about him really.
So, what's your thought on that?
I do agree it's worrying how often this is utterly failed.
NethDugan 1 year ago
@NethDugan Well it sounds like it doesn't pass (without seeing the scene) but I wouldn't get hung up on the details of it, the test is to give you a sense of how often women and women's stories are not included in films.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
Hmm, never thought about this. Interesting post!
CrazedPeeling 1 year ago
I always knew women were underrepresented in films (just as with anything else), but this test is really illuminating. Take the questions in the Bechdel Test and replace 'women' with 'men' and just about every film would pass the test. Amazing.
cannedkitty 1 year ago 2
A good friend of mine is a filmmaker, and a lady, yet none of her films meet this criteria... does this mean that she's sexist against her own race?
pottoco 1 year ago
@pottoco It probably means that she is doing what is expected of her in order to be successful at her job. Even if she did want to make films with more complex and interesting female characters she will have resistance from many levels of the Hollywood movie making machine.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency All due respect, and I truly do hold women in very high regard, but I feel like that is a load of crap. This woman is a tremendously talented writer/filmmaker, who just enjoys a certain dynamic. Her work reflects that of what she enjoys to read, a lot like myself. All of her work has centered around a single woman, one in which had strength and determination, but does seem to be alone in a world with men.
pottoco 1 year ago
@pottoco Then why did you ask me about it? I'm not doubting her skills or the quality of her work I'm just saying there is a standard and formula for Hollywood films (I don't even know if she works in Hollywood). Her female character could be wonderfully dynamic and complex but women don't exist in a world without other women. This is not a commentary on her skills, this is a commentary on what is expected and what is supported in Hollywood.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Incidentally, I tend to write the same way, as a man -- a single strong women in the midst of idiotic men, which for me in a sense is how I see life, or that which appeals to me. Meaning, I am attracted to strong, passionate, and ambitious women, and tend to find most men pushy, and whiny. Anyway my point is, where as I'm sure a lot of these movies listed don't have any seriously strong women within, I'm also unsure of its validity as a test.
pottoco 1 year ago
@pottoco Watch the video again, I clearly state that the test is not an indicator of the quality or substance of the film... just that it is a far too common trend that women are not fully realized complex characters. And many of the exceptions to that are what you stated, one strong woman and a bunch of men surrounding her, which frankly, is kind of ridiculous.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 48
@feministfrequency Well my personal belief, as an artist working at a lower level in this business, ie Hollywood, is that we do write about what we know, which is as the goes. I personally spend most of my time with woman, and don't really have to many male friends. So I write about what I'm interested in, strong women in a fantasy setting. Obviously, this does not stand for everyone, and some folks are just plain sexist, like David Mamet, for instance.
pottoco 1 year ago
@feministfrequency But as a male writer, I do tend to write about what interests me, and what i'd want to see, and then I keep that within the realm of who I am. Granted, as i've mentioned, a lot of people may be sexist, and that'll just naturally come out of them. The real problem is with the industry. There need to be more female voices making films, because for the most part, they are all men, and that is the thing that need to be fixed. Some of my favorites in Hollywood are women, too few.
pottoco 1 year ago
@feministfrequency I sensorially don't mean to insight any animosity, i just feel as though the issue is great than forcing these men, and women to think different in their work, but rather, to educate them in their lives. The same holds true with racism.
pottoco 1 year ago
This doesn't even take into account the movies where the women are talking about things irrelevant to the plot or theme (while just providing filler, comic relief or some background information) while the men carry all the important and substantial dialogue.
Culiccidae 1 year ago 3
@Culiccidae Methinks that these don't actually pass. It has to be something we actually want to hear about in relation to plot for it to be a real conversation.
0Krusnik0 1 year ago
Comment removed
roryphelan 1 year ago
One thing you need to point out is that you are talking about HOLLYWOOD MOVIES and not movies from the rest of the world.
It is sad but I bet even a country like Iran beats their statistic when it comes to portray fully-realized women characters in cinema.
Professicchio 1 year ago
This is due to the scripts that get turned into films. If there is no female-to-female dialogue (about topics other than men) in the script, the film that results will be likely to share that sexism problem. It's an interesting test. I just wonder how the writing and selection of film scripts can be influenced in a positive way? It's down to Hollywood traditions that have deep roots. All popular films have to be traditional love stories, adventure, war, etc. Women need to become scriptwriters.
camera400 1 year ago
Good point, well explained.
Porcelanesa 1 year ago
Pulp Fiction (1:19) passes. Jody and Trudy (Lance's wife and her friend) are talking about piercings. I think you learn their names in a scene shortly following the scene in which they talk, so it's not immediately obvious
CraigNull 1 year ago
God, I love a lot of those films on there (TDK, The Truman Show, LOTR etc.) but for some such as Reservoir Dogs and Milk, there was a reason why there weren't women in it because it is a male centric film but X-Men does involve women speaking about something other than men, and I'm sure in Toy Story there were conversations involving Andy's mum and sister.
Either way, every industry has always been extremely sexist, it's just sad that in the 21st century stuff like this still goes on.
FishRabies 1 year ago
@FishRabies Milk always pisses me off though, because it seems to think the gay rights movement existed without any lesbians at all. Oh no, wait, they featured one. Other than that it is brilliant film though.
allygarrett 1 year ago 2
@FishRabies I love you way you say "Andy's mum & sister". I think it just failed the test at that point. Do they have names (that we remember from the movie...)
telphick 1 year ago 3
@telphick I know Andy's sister has a name, it's either Molly or Sally (I think it's Molly), not sure about the mom though.
FatherTime89 1 year ago
@FatherTime89 Andy's sister's name is Molly. Sally is the name of Sid's little sister's doll. His little sister's name is Hannah. And both of their mothers go my Mom.
MissAnitaSow 1 year ago
Well, that was an eye-opener...
KittyCatty93 1 year ago 8
How interesting, I hadn't even thought of this... Thanks for putting it together.
Swamibu 1 year ago
@evosero no it's not, but it's still relevant to a discussion about women's representation in films.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
The video is informative and also slightly humorous...yet really makes me sad about the misrepresentation of women in culture and society :/
Thank you for this enlightening information!
FenderBoy87 1 year ago 6
I like the rule about women having to talk to one another without discussing men, but I don't really think it's necessary for there to be two or more women in it. Just my two cents.
LisaNikkole 1 year ago
@LisaNikkole
Even the rule about discussing men is flawed, as it doesn't differentiate the nature of the conversation.
The assumption is that they're talking about a romantic interest in the man or something which feeds the male character. If they just happen to be discussing another character that happens to be male, it's broken a rule.
For example, Iron Man 2 breaks the rule, but given that Iron Man/Tony Stark is the title character, the majority of conversations are about him.
evosero 1 year ago
@LisaNikkole
And exactly how would women "talk to one another" if there is only one woman in the film?
TFYFWYA 1 year ago
@feministfrequency
I saw Alien 3 and Terminator Salvation in your list, but not Aliens or Terminator 2. :)
I love Aliens and T2, but do you think they're feminist films?
TheBoomViper 1 year ago
@TheBoomViper Alien 1 and 2 pass the test (I believe). Terminator 1 and 2 sort of pass (there is some debate). I think that the characters of Ripley and Sarah Connor are historically important in feminist film theory as they represent some of the first strong female characters. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying they are "feminist" films.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, T2 is a dark film, and Sarah Connor is a terminator-like powerhouse, but she still has emotional depth, and that makes a big difference. Same with Ellen Ripley in Aliens.
I gather Titanic passes this type of test as well...?
TheBoomViper 1 year ago
@TheBoomViper I actually never saw the film but you can check out bechdeltest [dot] com for a HUGE list of films.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency
Cheers!
TheBoomViper 1 year ago
X-Men passes the test!
rebeccatrishel 1 year ago
@rebeccatrishel just barely...
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency True, but it does. The X-Men films are actually the most successful superhero films to feature female superheros.
rebeccatrishel 1 year ago
@rebeccatrishel ya but they are secondary characters for the most part.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency They are. And in X-Men, the female characters are not the strong characters they were in the original comics. Storm, especially, was robbed of her multidimensionality, strength and power when the cast Halle Berry and took away almost all her speaking parts. And she was an original X-Man!
Caroleeena 1 year ago 2
Hi there feministfrequency!
I was wondering what your thoughts are on Harold and Maude (if you have seen it before)?
marlemafa 1 year ago
@marlemafa I saw it so long ago that I don't think I can adequately give my opinion of it.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
But does Wall-E pass the test if you asked the same questions about men?
composermark 1 year ago 5
@composermark
Depends, are we counting robots as being gendered? AUTO seems male to me, and he and "Captain" (I'd go ahead and say that counts as a name) have some non-female centric interaction. Wall-E and M-O (male? I think male) have some non-female centric interaction as well.
Underwired 1 year ago
Does anyone actually maintain a list of current films that do or don't pass this test? I'm sure it can't be hard to maintain.
leobaby 1 year ago
@leobaby yes, bechdel test . com (remove the spaces) has one
feministfrequency 1 year ago
I love it when you look at your watch-less wrist.
Of course, you are correct. My screenwriting teacher sent this video to me; I will be reconsidering the characters in my screenplay now.
What's your thought on the Male Gaze?
iantonio 1 year ago
Fortunately, this problem is not very common in European films...
Basinber 1 year ago
This is actually a pretty cool theory, because you really WOULD expect more movies to pass such a simple set of rules. Weird eh? It really does seem like a pattern the more I think of it.
twcatube 1 year ago 6