(Acte II Scène IV) (POLLUX, aux Peuples) Peuples, cessez de soupirer ! Non, ce n'est plus des pleurs que ces mânes demandent ; C'est du sang qu'ils attendent, Et ce sang fatal a coulé.: Lincée est immolé. (TOUS LES CHŒURS) Que l'enfer applaudisse A ces nouveaux concerts. Qu'une ombre plaintive en jouisse. Le cri de la vengeance est le chant des Enfers.
@otacs2 Yes this is the second version and the original was composed in 1737. Some revivals occured in 1764, 1765, 1772, 1778, 1779, 1780 and 1792. But no trace of any revival in 1770.
@otacs2 I've just read the french historian criticisms about Antonia Fraser book and Sophia Coppola inspired movie: "disneyfication. Does Marie Antoinette merit this great considerations"?"
"Disneyfication" means a fairy tale like Wald Disney have done in his cartoons.
@frenchiecocorico1 Antonia Fraser did a good job researching Marie Antoinette's live. Whoever have said that she wrote down a Disneyfication is wrong. The whole opera is performed to the court in 1770 and 1792. read something about their flight or about their wedding. This piece of music is supreme, it deserves more respect.
@otacs2 I can't for instance give a valid opinion on Antonia Fraser book until I could read it. However, It seems she described Marie Antoinette as a fair and lovely person, innocent of any responsability in the revolution occurence and all in all a victim.
Though french historians prefer english Evelyne Lever book for its objectivity toward Marie Antoinette describing a contrasting portrait with her skills, her faults and her responsabilities in french historical events of this time.
@otacs2 Oh I agree with you this piece is wonderful and deserves respect. However it has not a real relationship with Marie Antoinette but with Rameau and the greek myth of the two dioscures Castor and Pollux. Many pictures could have been found to illustrate this.
@frenchiecocorico1 Yes, indeed. I'm aware of the story of the works of Rameau, but in 2009 this music was making me and many others think about the 18th century in France so I illustrate them with what people want and clearly can recognize them on youtube, so a portrait of marie-Antoinette or a picture of Versailles. people can make a decision about what music video they are going to watch in just 0.5 seconds, beside of that I'm not making any profit of this. I just want to offer you this music.
What is the relationship between Rameau's Opera "Castor et Pollux" (1754) and Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna von Habsbourg Lorraine (better known under the name of Queen Marie Antoinette)? She wasn't born yet (1755) when Jean Philippe Rameau composed this Opera and she never heard it in all her life!
@frenchiecocorico1 She heard it at her wedding and the night before she left Paris with her husband Louis XVI August of France, everybody enjoying the beautiful history of Marie-Antoinette and France knows that (They went to Varennes, because of the French Revolution). Maybe you should read something about her life, it's very important for the history of the world. I can recommend: Antonia Fraser, Marie Antoinette. She describes her life very precise... Rameau's work really is sublime!
@otacs2 V- Despite those idiotic considerations history continues to go on and the world to turn without any change in France, in Russia, in China, in Portugal, in Mexico, ... and even in England which is the first nation in the world to behead its king Charles I°...and to invent concentration camp.
@otacs2 V- US and British people considered they could be the judge of the world, they could interfere in the internal affairs of the nations, they could distribute territories they don’t possess and their opinion is the truth (I can list every sin of US and British peoples particularly in last decade). French people is free of its destiny as the other free nations of the world and don’t have to justify anything of its history because these facts had been done in past time.
@otacs2 IV- There is no more than US and british peoples to developp an obsessionnal interest for the french monarchy dissapointments during revolutionnary period but curiously not for the unjustice, bloody repression, famine, toward the french people. they ignore voluntarily intolerable and numerous taxes only for the poorer and no tax for the richer that the monarchy need to decrease its debt due particularly to the help for US independance war.
@otacs2 III- Though french king and queen had to go on trial. They were considered guilty for high treason toward french people and guillotined.
Nowaday, the wide majority of french people considered the end of monarchy was a good thing because it brought us democracy and each citizen the same rights.
But the end of monarchy is due entirely to Henry V when he refused the parliament conditions to recover the throne (27 October 1873).
@otacs2 II- Marie Antoinette recommanded her brother emperor Joseph II to attack frenck revolutionnary army. Then she tried to escaped to find shelter near the austrian army which stationned near the Belgian border. But this escape didn't succeed and royal family was arrested at Varennes by revolutionnary authorities (06-20-1791). Though, austrian emperor threatened to genocide completly french people (manifeste de Brunswick, 08-3-1792). The austrian army loss the battle (Valmy, 09-27-1792).
@otacs2 I- This is absolutely untrue. Marie Antoinette's wedding occured the 04-17-1770 in Sankt Augustin kirche, Vienna. This was a wedding by proxy.
I fear you read only softened Marie Antoinette history as a fairy tale.
French historian wrote and published numerous books on the subject by the times from the revolutionnary period and we know better than anyone over the world how french history goes on because the source documents are in France and they are written in french. Do you?
@frenchiecocorico1 What Antonia Fraser wrote was not a fairytale at all, she inspired a lot of people like Sofia Coppola. I think it is great you know your history very well, the French Revolution is in my opinion one of the important era's to understand the world as it is today. A wedding like the one of Marie Antoinette and Louis Auguste used to have big party's with it. (There was one in Schonbrunn, Austria and one in France, idk where exactly in France, maybe it was in Versailles)
@otacs2 You don't know where was the french wedding and Antonia Fraser didn't informyou about that?
Because of the numerous idiotic theories coming from USA, I know US historians told french history with their own or english point of view made of biased opinions but the only valid french history is written by french specialists. French revolution is a distant event less important in the modern history than Russian or Chineese revolution or the Irak war.
@frenchiecocorico1 The wedding was on two different places, one in France and one in what today is Germany. Those are not point of views, those are facts and are written by historici at that time. It doesn't really matter in what country a book is published to see what level they are. The French Revolution is like a base for modern politics, and politics are very important as you can see in history. History is all about perception.
@otacs2 III- That's why they try to present french revolution as an horrible event and french monarchy as a union of inoffensive people. Unfortunately, the majority of nations in the word don't chose US point of view but french one (as for Irak war) resulting in more and more independant democratic nations and in less less monarchies.
@frenchiecocorico1 Don't forget the Declaration of Independence. And what it meant for Europe... and don't forget what France meant for the Dutch Monarchy for example in the late 18th century and start of the 19th century (if you think about that, quit a funny story)
@otacs2 II- Yes it is an important matter on which history is written, not on the facts but on the analysis of the facts. I don't find any proof that Marie Antoinette could had listen Castor et Pollux or not
Historians think french revolution is an important event in the modern time because it was the model for many other revolutions when people was unjustly oppressed by tyranic government (south america, russia, china, ...) and it always resulted in the creation of many democratict republics
@frenchiecocorico1 You can read any book about Marie Antoinette or about Rameau's works and see that she actually has been to a performance of Castor et Pollux. I'm not going to tell or explain this to you again, because it's a fact, it may not be the most important fact but it is a true thing. As I said, history is all about perception.
@otacs2 I- Well you don't know exactly how was the wedding. There is a first wedding by proxy in Austria as I told previously and a second wedding in France at the Royal Versailles Chapel but never in Germany. Marie Antoinette changed her nationality exactly on the border between France and Germany (part of the austrian empire at this time).
Comment removed
jmtappenden 1 year ago
Comment removed
jmtappenden 1 year ago
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 This is the 1754 version, but there were made different revivals.
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 Yes this is the second version and the original was composed in 1737. Some revivals occured in 1764, 1765, 1772, 1778, 1779, 1780 and 1792. But no trace of any revival in 1770.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 I've just read the french historian criticisms about Antonia Fraser book and Sophia Coppola inspired movie: "disneyfication. Does Marie Antoinette merit this great considerations"?"
"Disneyfication" means a fairy tale like Wald Disney have done in his cartoons.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 Antonia Fraser did a good job researching Marie Antoinette's live. Whoever have said that she wrote down a Disneyfication is wrong. The whole opera is performed to the court in 1770 and 1792. read something about their flight or about their wedding. This piece of music is supreme, it deserves more respect.
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 I can't for instance give a valid opinion on Antonia Fraser book until I could read it. However, It seems she described Marie Antoinette as a fair and lovely person, innocent of any responsability in the revolution occurence and all in all a victim.
Though french historians prefer english Evelyne Lever book for its objectivity toward Marie Antoinette describing a contrasting portrait with her skills, her faults and her responsabilities in french historical events of this time.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 Oh I agree with you this piece is wonderful and deserves respect. However it has not a real relationship with Marie Antoinette but with Rameau and the greek myth of the two dioscures Castor and Pollux. Many pictures could have been found to illustrate this.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 Yes, indeed. I'm aware of the story of the works of Rameau, but in 2009 this music was making me and many others think about the 18th century in France so I illustrate them with what people want and clearly can recognize them on youtube, so a portrait of marie-Antoinette or a picture of Versailles. people can make a decision about what music video they are going to watch in just 0.5 seconds, beside of that I'm not making any profit of this. I just want to offer you this music.
otacs2 1 year ago
What is the relationship between Rameau's Opera "Castor et Pollux" (1754) and Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna von Habsbourg Lorraine (better known under the name of Queen Marie Antoinette)? She wasn't born yet (1755) when Jean Philippe Rameau composed this Opera and she never heard it in all her life!
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 She heard it at her wedding and the night before she left Paris with her husband Louis XVI August of France, everybody enjoying the beautiful history of Marie-Antoinette and France knows that (They went to Varennes, because of the French Revolution). Maybe you should read something about her life, it's very important for the history of the world. I can recommend: Antonia Fraser, Marie Antoinette. She describes her life very precise... Rameau's work really is sublime!
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 V- Despite those idiotic considerations history continues to go on and the world to turn without any change in France, in Russia, in China, in Portugal, in Mexico, ... and even in England which is the first nation in the world to behead its king Charles I°...and to invent concentration camp.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 V- US and British people considered they could be the judge of the world, they could interfere in the internal affairs of the nations, they could distribute territories they don’t possess and their opinion is the truth (I can list every sin of US and British peoples particularly in last decade). French people is free of its destiny as the other free nations of the world and don’t have to justify anything of its history because these facts had been done in past time.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 IV- There is no more than US and british peoples to developp an obsessionnal interest for the french monarchy dissapointments during revolutionnary period but curiously not for the unjustice, bloody repression, famine, toward the french people. they ignore voluntarily intolerable and numerous taxes only for the poorer and no tax for the richer that the monarchy need to decrease its debt due particularly to the help for US independance war.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 III- Though french king and queen had to go on trial. They were considered guilty for high treason toward french people and guillotined.
Nowaday, the wide majority of french people considered the end of monarchy was a good thing because it brought us democracy and each citizen the same rights.
But the end of monarchy is due entirely to Henry V when he refused the parliament conditions to recover the throne (27 October 1873).
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 II- Marie Antoinette recommanded her brother emperor Joseph II to attack frenck revolutionnary army. Then she tried to escaped to find shelter near the austrian army which stationned near the Belgian border. But this escape didn't succeed and royal family was arrested at Varennes by revolutionnary authorities (06-20-1791). Though, austrian emperor threatened to genocide completly french people (manifeste de Brunswick, 08-3-1792). The austrian army loss the battle (Valmy, 09-27-1792).
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@otacs2 I- This is absolutely untrue. Marie Antoinette's wedding occured the 04-17-1770 in Sankt Augustin kirche, Vienna. This was a wedding by proxy.
I fear you read only softened Marie Antoinette history as a fairy tale.
French historian wrote and published numerous books on the subject by the times from the revolutionnary period and we know better than anyone over the world how french history goes on because the source documents are in France and they are written in french. Do you?
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 What Antonia Fraser wrote was not a fairytale at all, she inspired a lot of people like Sofia Coppola. I think it is great you know your history very well, the French Revolution is in my opinion one of the important era's to understand the world as it is today. A wedding like the one of Marie Antoinette and Louis Auguste used to have big party's with it. (There was one in Schonbrunn, Austria and one in France, idk where exactly in France, maybe it was in Versailles)
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 You don't know where was the french wedding and Antonia Fraser didn't informyou about that?
Because of the numerous idiotic theories coming from USA, I know US historians told french history with their own or english point of view made of biased opinions but the only valid french history is written by french specialists. French revolution is a distant event less important in the modern history than Russian or Chineese revolution or the Irak war.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 The wedding was on two different places, one in France and one in what today is Germany. Those are not point of views, those are facts and are written by historici at that time. It doesn't really matter in what country a book is published to see what level they are. The French Revolution is like a base for modern politics, and politics are very important as you can see in history. History is all about perception.
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 III- That's why they try to present french revolution as an horrible event and french monarchy as a union of inoffensive people. Unfortunately, the majority of nations in the word don't chose US point of view but french one (as for Irak war) resulting in more and more independant democratic nations and in less less monarchies.
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 Don't forget the Declaration of Independence. And what it meant for Europe... and don't forget what France meant for the Dutch Monarchy for example in the late 18th century and start of the 19th century (if you think about that, quit a funny story)
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 II- Yes it is an important matter on which history is written, not on the facts but on the analysis of the facts. I don't find any proof that Marie Antoinette could had listen Castor et Pollux or not
Historians think french revolution is an important event in the modern time because it was the model for many other revolutions when people was unjustly oppressed by tyranic government (south america, russia, china, ...) and it always resulted in the creation of many democratict republics
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
@frenchiecocorico1 You can read any book about Marie Antoinette or about Rameau's works and see that she actually has been to a performance of Castor et Pollux. I'm not going to tell or explain this to you again, because it's a fact, it may not be the most important fact but it is a true thing. As I said, history is all about perception.
otacs2 1 year ago
@otacs2 I- Well you don't know exactly how was the wedding. There is a first wedding by proxy in Austria as I told previously and a second wedding in France at the Royal Versailles Chapel but never in Germany. Marie Antoinette changed her nationality exactly on the border between France and Germany (part of the austrian empire at this time).
frenchiecocorico1 1 year ago
Beautiful music.Thanks.
jmtappenden 1 year ago
And thank you for your comment
please watch my channel for a couple of day's
because i'm going to upload 3 parts of the opera castor et pollux
otacs2 1 year ago
Must be one of Rameau's very greatest masterpieces.Contains everything music should possess.Brilliant,brilliant music.
jmtappenden 2 years ago
this is really nice! 5*****!
pligana 2 years ago 2
Fabulous & brilliant.Thanks.
jmtappenden 2 years ago 3