George Galloway and Fred the cabbie discus Stalin

[saulwilliams56]

hitler is worse than stalin but only by a little bit, they both killed millions of people, however stalin never killed people because of who they were racially, but hes still evil, what about the vilages in kalmykia where stalin deported 50,000 of them, men women and children to camps in siberia in the middle of the winter on cattle trains, most of the babies and elderly died from hypothermia,

[7jem331]

Fred the Cabbie could also go and visit the empty villages in Georgia where the Meskheti people once lived or the thousands of Mosques and Churches destroyed by Stalin all over the Soviet Union.

[7jem331]

"Did Stalin deport ethnic minorities? No"

Maybe Fred the Cabbie would like to explain that one to the Chechens, Ingush, Tatars, Avars and the millions of others deported to the steppe of Central Asia to die in their thousands. There is a village in Crimea that was deported by boat, they sailed into the Black Sea and sunk it with the entire population on board.

[Indul1]

Stephen Wheatcroft study about the numbers who died under Soviet and Nazi rule should put this one to bed.....1 million deliberately killed by Stalin...6 million under Hitler.....The Poles will tell you there was no difference between Nazi and Soviet rule...if you were a Polish Jew...you might disagree......

[ignaciosanmon]

@Indul1

This subject is very complex. The invasion of Poland by Germany was somehow a result of the unfair Versailles treaty. It doesn't justify an invassion and the murdering that took place, of course. The US are also partially responsible, as they were funding and supporting Hitler until 1941.

More than meets the eye, as I said.

[glaschris08]

People need to get real. Stalin was a monster. To say that he wasn't as bad as Hitler means absolutely nothing we have to look at his crimes in isolation. It's like saying heart disease isn't as bad as lung cancer.

[JustB3NJI]

I personally think Churchill would find the BNP more favorable than most people think. If you look at some of the thing Churchill said abot Islam, the BNP come off looking mild - Churchill also said The next time fascism rises it will be in the disguise of anti fascism. Churchill was also in favor of a more independant Britain than the 3 main parties espouse. I'm not saying he;d be on the BNPs side but I think he'd find common ground with them: he'd be disgraced with the Tories.

[JustB3NJI]

(Soz i did want to keep this short)

cont...Thats not to play the superior role, but on a socail standing we are and the problem is they might not want us telling them what to do but they sure want us to do something for them. While Saudi Arabia is something of an ally they recent demand to be compensated as their il reserve deplete is a prime example of what I mean. Look at everyone who friends with America, they all get far more out of it than they put into it.

[ignaciosanmon]

A "soviet intervention" in 1930 didn't mean the same as in 1950, by 1930 the Soviet Union was still recovering from the civil war and invassions from other countries like Polska.

[vivascargill]

What!  1) In 1930--what have you been smoking? In 1930 USSR had just begun to industrialize--1930! Hell they lost 22 million people in 1941-5! BTW Hitler was not yet in power in 1930--HELLO!

[vivascargill]

Hey all you Stalin Bashers! Check out Elaine Ark. USA 1919

or Camphill 1931--or check the Emmet Till Videos

[JustB3NJI]

Stalin deserves being bashed, you can't excuse the gulags.

[vivascargill]

I am not going to argue--though I disagree--my point was different. whether he deserves to be bashed or not I believe that the protestations of the US --a country that just wants to kill every one and was burning people alive until the mid fifties at least does not have the moral cache to bash anyone--that is all I was saying.

[JustB3NJI]

And point taken, I totally appeciate that however such an argument presupposses that whoever is on the recieving end has a more clean past, and thats not the case for most. The Arabic world had it eras that were every bit as bad as our own, while Britai abolished slavery and the spread though ot the west it wasn't completly abolished in the Islamic world until 1981, and 200,000 are estimated to remain n slavery. So I don't think 'moral cache' is of concern, were all just as bad, but were ahead.

[vivascargill]

well I would challenge somethings here but I live in the USA and that is where I am coming from --- sure other countries have done bad things but read "American Congo" or take a good look at US History.BTW Britain may have abolished slavery but it seemed to like to shoot people out of cannons during the Sepoy rebellion but NOTHING that Stalin did is as nauseating as the US using live black men as sandbags during the Miss. flood of 1927 I will leave it there

[JustB3NJI]

Stalins gulags were the worst labour camps period, and his paranoya led to endless assinsinations. Stalin was more fair than America for the same reason Bin Ladan Saddam and any dictator is more fair than America was, because with them just about everyone was screwed.

[JustB3NJI]

America also made its self look in the mirrorm you woke up and learned from your mistakes, such behaviour like I said isn; excluesive to any one country race or time period, the importance is those who for the most part made themselves change and and who for the most part were made to change. Britain and America has paid pennance for what they did and truth be known tha apology hasn't stopped, such an apology from the Arabiac word to Africa has not.

[JustB3NJI]

SOz very bored and i find this topic interesting....I just wanted to drop in that your tradition of slavery com from us in britain which actiually comes from the bullued becomng the bullies - Britain was raided for slaves and occupied many times and the little man of the world got sickof being picked on - a common mentality in human history which is I think s important to consider if a nation that feels victimised is building weapons - we dont need another Britain!

[danielshacalis]

I personally would be more objective. I think it is one thing to look at the ideas of Stalin. It is another thing to look at the nasty things that did happen.

[BorgHub]

Stalin made a deal with Hitler just before WW2. as Hitler started conquering europe Stalin started conquering the baltic states like Latvia, Lita, and the others. Hitler and Stalin invaded Poland together from different sides and split it between both of them.

Stalin was allied with Hitler up until Hitler crossed Stalin by launching a surprise attack against him

[ignaciosanmon]

Poland had joined Hitler in the rape of Czecholslovakia in 1938, and had invaded the Soviet Union in 1921, so they're not the innocent victims they pretend to be.

[Katyusha666]

In war, practically no one is innocent.

[VanDoodah]

Are you, like Galloway, a Stalinist?

[ignaciosanmon]

Putting some actual facts on the table makes me a Stalinist? What kind of sick mind comes to that conclusion?

[VanDoodah]

No, I'm not accusing you of being a Stalinist. I'm asking if you, like Galloway, are.

Do you want me to post Galloway's posts on Stalin? How about I link you to the video where he (Galloway) chums up with Saddam Hussein? Or Saddam's son, Uday, one of the most vicious men of the twentieth century?

Galloway belongs to a species of sub-human, along with all other Stalinists.

[ignaciosanmon]

Pull yourself together, you little boy. Don't come here to insult people, why don't you call Galloway and say that to him personally? What about Western Churchill and Truman praising Stalin? What about Nixon and Rockefeller praising Mao?

[VanDoodah]

Ah, the last resort of an idiot with no argument to make - resort to ad hominems.

When asked if he is a Stalinist, Galloway replied:

"I wouldn't define it that way because of the pejoratives loaded around it; that would be making a rod for your own back. If you are asking did I support the Soviet Union, yes I did. Yes, I did support the Soviet Union, and I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life."

Galloway is a disgrace to humanity.

[yington]

VanDoodah - well said mate.

[batlin]

You criticise him for making an ad hominem attack in response to your comment, even though your comment said "Galloway belongs to a species of sub-human, along with all other Stalinists" - see the hypocrisy?

[VanDoodah]

He is a Stalinist. That's not an ad hominem.

[batlin]

Nobody said it was. Calling somebody a "species of sub-human" most obviously is.