Ramey, Atheism is scarcely a viewpoint at all. It's pretty much just a rejection of what you and other Theists believe. Also, I understand your intended point about it being hard for Atheists, but what individual Atheists do and have to go through doesn't really affect what Atheism itself is. Same applies to the third thing you mentioned.
@Gunderson002 A rejection of what i and other theists believe IS a view point. Your view point is that my beliefs are false, the reasons behind it change from person to person, yet at the end of the day Atheists share a common disbelief system, they all disbelieve in all Gods- hence this commonality does group you up into one bundle- despite your differences. Peace.
No, Atheism is not the immediate disbelief in God. It's just the lack of belief that there's enough evidence to prove that there is a god. Atheists can rage from those completely closed to be the possibility of their being a deity to those very much open to the idea but still don't assertively believe in one.
@Gunderson002 Mmmm i see what you are saying, yet if that is the case then where is the line between Atheists and Agnostics? If someone is open minded to the idea of God, but doesn't neccessarily believe in a God is this person an Atheist or an Agnostic? For me i find that the disbelief in a God (and the confidence behind this assertion) comes from Atheists.
If Atheists were not a group, why are there Atheist clubs/ Ads/ Youtube channels etc.
I can now see where this misconception you have comes from. There is not necessarilly a line between Atheism and Agnosticism. You keep be both. Atheism means the lack of immediate belief in any deity. Agnosticism means being open to the possibility that there is a god. So, as you can see, you can be both. Also, these 'Atheist' clubs you speak of are probably better described as 'secularist' clubs.
@Gunderson002 Yeah it's odd though how sometimes Atheists dislike being associated with Agnostics (many videos exist, of Atheists saying i am NOT agnostic, i am full blown atheist) and sometimes Agnostics dislike being associated with atheists. My view has always seen a big distinction between agnostics and atheists and i personally have always favoured and respected the agnostic viewpoint moreso than the Atheist view point. I think being both is mere confusion? I could be wrong.
@ramio1983 I think it all come down to if you are an atheist coz you don't think there is enough evidence or if you are it coz you claim to know that there is no God. If you “don't think there is enough.....” you also can call your self an agnostic. But if you claim to know ...well you just know. It is just like some people that believe in God, some claim to know some believes and if you claim to know why question what you know?
Great video. I am a former atheist turned conservative Muslim myself, although I have to say that the reason for my atheism were almost solely sociological rather than the "scientific rationalism" that most atheists use against religion in general. My conversion to Islam nevertheless is the result of the same sort of thinking process that most former atheists I know have come through already
haha, and its very cold up here in the North, -5 degrees in Philadelphia, PA no one can wait for summer.
ramio, you keep saying "that's what you believe" when talking about Atheism, that's a mistake
"Atheists love evidence" - that's kind of stupid to say as well. HUMANS love evidence. We don't generally walk around NOT requiring evidence. That's idiotic
however, as you put it, lack of evidence for a god is an argument at all. You know there is no evidence. WHY is this a view point you are extremely opposed to? Atheism forces you to be accountable for your beliefs and actions dude, what the prob?
@TheEarthAbides Well what atheists disbelieve in is their common belief. They reject all Gods- that is an irrefutable fact and is an orthodox view point of theirs in regards to God, otherwise they would not label themselves as Atheists. Humans love evidence? Well not really, i have no direct evidence God exists, i BELIEVE God exists within my human instinct but there's not much more i can show.
I oppose the notion of being positive that there is no God. Agnosticism i respect more. Peace.
@ramio1983 Dude, what you are saying is basically a whole lot of nothing. Humans love evidence for everything that manifests in reality. When you talk about a belief in god, that's something entirely different. You can't separate superstition & brain washing from what you call an "instinct" to believe in some sort of invisible superman. To be technical, most atheists reject any current (lack of) evidence for a god. if good evidence was found, we would change our minds. whats wrong with that?
@TheEarthAbides Well no, ive been an agnostic most of my life, and my spiritual journey had nothing to do with "brain washing" - infact it was calling from within and this instinct i cannot take away. To me, there is a God.
Of course atheists always try and dumb the God title to "Skydaddies and spaghetti monsters" but it doesn't detract from my point, God might exist and evidence plays NO part in the decision. There cannot be "evidence" for God - we cannot find him hiding and say "gotchya!".
@ramio1983 why can't there be evidence? also, why do you hold your subjective experience AS an objective form of evidence? if we can be sure of anything in this world it's that our subjective experiences don't count for shit.
@TheEarthAbides Well according to my beliefs- in Islam God is defined in such a way.
"He beggeteth not. nor is he begotten, and He has no like or parallel." (112:14) "Pure and exalted is thy God the Powerful and Unique, Who is pure of what men in their ignorance ascribe to Him." (37:180)
So to me - God has no like or parallel and he is nothing like what men ascribe to him. Hence if we "seek" evidence, we dont even know what to look for. Other God concepts fail with imagery etc.
@ramio1983 Hence Gods like Jesus, Krishna/Vishnu, Thor, Budda, Flying Teapot and Spaghetti Monsters all fail- mainly because i can associate imagery with each of these "Gods". I can associate them to something that is parallel to something or someone else, they aren't unique, God is being ascribed to an object,image or person. These God concepts fail, yet the God concept in Islam is articulate and cannot be debunked due to "lack of evidence" for God is clearly described as tester, not tested.
@ramio1983 Dude you are just using islamic characteristics to judge other beliefs. A Hindu could say that your god fails case he doesn't have 8 arms. You can't use a thing to prove itself. In Islam, god is jealous, he makes mistakes and he perpetuates suffering. Those are quite human qualities. You say you believe in this particular character called allah, why? do your parents? does your community, peers? how did you ever come to believe that stuff. BTW have you read the bible?
@TheEarthAbides Well you are asking me why there cant be evidence for God, i am answering that question based on my beliefs, yes. You are asking for that, why i believe in the God that i do and why there cannot be evidence of him that you require. The Islamic God to me makes sense, the first, the last, the unseen, in incomprehensible. God is outside of our psyche, God is creator- we are creation- hence a creator tests its creation not vice versa. If we "found evidence" we are testing God.
@ramio1983 So by your definition of god, he cannot be tested ofr the purpose of scientific validation or the existence of a deity. Conversely, when it comes to your personal beliefs, instead of saying 'i have no way of knowing whether such a god exists' you claim to have knowledge of such a god's existence?
You claim god has these characteristics because it says so in the Qu'ran. Then you claim the Qu'ran is true because god has these characteristics. Circular logic, no?
@SupermarketsRevil No i do not know...I only believe- that is the difference. Having faith is a big deal, its a big leap for one person to take, because it is perhaps the only time in our lives where we have to reason with ourselves, our minds, our hearts and make a decision not based on pure evidence that our senses encounter, infact it is a leap of faith - and for some that is hard- yet for me and my decision to embrace Islam, i have found myself very content with my God concept.
@ramio1983 It's amazing how wide a range of views once can have given the same evidence. I guess it just dependds what the prime motivators are for our decision making. Even if I liked the idea of the existence of a god, I couldn't justify such a belief to myself given such a complete absence of evidence. That aside, if i was the kind to belief things on faith I see so much corruption and immorality in the teachings of every religion I've ever known, that also puts me off.
@ramio1983 I wouldn't say religion is the only facet of our lives where we reason with ourselves based on subjection notions, or faith. Take romantic relationships for example, people can be attracted to people who, logically, are not a good match. It depends on one's personal preferences. Then again, human behaviour and decision making is generally explained with psychology. But I mean, we don't always choose a partner for more pragmatic, sensible reasons, often there's an abstract attraction
@ramio1983 "No i do not know...I only believe-" This implies you're an agnostic theist. Agnosticism is a philosophical position about our ability to know things, in this case about god. An agnostic will never claim to know anything, no matter how much evidence is put forward. He will simply say we're not capable of "knowing". There are also agnostic atheists. They don't believe in a god, but do not claim to know god doesn't exist either.
@thomazz2000 My belief doesnt swindle though, my belief in God is concrete- its just that i dont like the terminology of "knowing". I strongly believe God exists and it never sways in the opposite direction, im just not arrogant enough to say i know it (considering i cant directly prove it).
@ramio1983 Feeling agnostic about god is reasonable I think. It doesn't imply "having doubts" about the subject being agnostic towards however. It simply means "it cannot be known". You say you believe, and do not know. This is enough to make you an agnostic....theist, in your case. It is of no relevance how firmly you believe in god, because the belief itself makes you the theist. Hence an agnostic theist :) Y.S.
@TheEarthAbides My mother is a Christian, my father is a Muslim. My community is very mixed and most of the people i know are not Muslim. I came to believe in it because everything within me is telling me, the concept of Allah rings true to my mind, and its not something i begged for or seeked, but its something i could not put away, or brush aside, Allah got me from all directions and i literally think about Allah every day for the last 5 years without fail. Call it emotional- im convinced.
@ramio1983 Why does that convince you though? Look, I was raised by two roman catholic parents, I went to catholic school my whole life. When I think of god, I think of jesus. it's imprinted on my brain simply because it played a part in my upbringing. but the problem is, other people of other faiths feel the same. their inharent concept of their god is always with them as well. once you realize we are all the same because it was instilled in us at some point, you see through all the B.S.
@TheEarthAbides I will watch the video, but remember i oppose atheism because of its positivity that God does not exist, in my eyes that ground is baseless, there is no reason to be positive God does not exist, a lack of evidence to me is not strong enough an argument. I dont believe my view point is BS and trust me, it hasnt been "embedded" into me, i went there on my own and i am very happy with where im going spiritually. Ciao.
@ramio1983 well, I knew someone close to you had to be muslim, and i was right. also, to be a positive atheist is to just be practical. of course no one can know for certain, but woudln't it be stupid to walk around an not be a positive antiunicornist? or an antisantaclausist? there comes a point when you get tired of the b.s. and just call a spade a spade. the concept of god is magical, it's self contradictory and just really childish when you think about it. it IS a sky daddy, so... come on.
@TheEarthAbides Yeah but i use to have a strong disliking to Islam, then 2 years of studying it blew me away because for the MOST part (not in every aspect) Islam has been hijacked by two parties. Islamophobes and extremists, when i read into Islam with a neutral moderate pair of eyes it was highly refreshing for me and an extremely comforting and soothing recitation that touched my heart despite barely knowing Arabic. Anything you contribute to God is false-including Sky Daddy that aint my God.
@ramio1983 would you have invested 2 years into studying Sikhism? probably not, so you can't exactly rule out the very likely possibility that the amount of exposure to a certain religion can elicit deep emotions that would lead someone to conclude that "they know it's right cause they feel it so".
In Islam, just as in Judaism and Christianity the belief is that good deeds on earth get rewards in a different reality, and bad deeds get punished as well... this is why god is called a sky daddy
@TheEarthAbides No. The reason i studied Islam was that its a religion that has A LOT of weight on it, a terrible reputation but a huge following. I want to confirm that indeed the religion my own father follows is one full of hatred, evil and terror- that's what was the opinion of myself and many. I found it weird my beautiful father followed such a "sick" faith, until i studied it and wow...what can i say? I have seen a lot now to realize, most of the things people say are bullshit.
@ramio1983 part 1: you have to admit though, that the problem with Islamic fundamentalism are the fundamentals of Islam... How else could you have millions of people calling for death to cartoonists, stoning women in cold blood, public executions of gays, public maiming of children (to young girls genitals, to marrying 9 year olds, to breaking the arms of children who take a loaf of bread without paying to suicide bombing, to ridiculous blasphemy laws).
@TheEarthAbides Well mest of these "Fundamentals" of Islam you state are not Islamic. I know there is room for debate, but the Quran states if anyone makes funof the faith or Quran to just turn away. Stoning is now prescribed in the Quran, gays are discouraged from their actions but not to be killed. Female Genitile mutilation is 100% non Islamic, its pre- Islamic African culture- shows how much you know. Most injustices found in Islam arise from the hadiths, some suspicious whispers of 800AD.
@ramio1983 Have you ever heard of the "No True Scotsman Fallacy"? It's what every muslim is guilty of when you argue with them about their faith. If the horrors of Islam are pointed out to them they say something to the effect of, "Well, that's not true Islam". maybe it's a case of willful ignorance, I don't know, but at the end of the day MILLIONS of other muslims would disagree with you and say that YOU aren't following the true Islam. Makes you wonder why god couldn't write a clear book
@TheEarthAbides As for a "Sky Daddy" i reject this term. People in this world believe in "Karma" under the false delusion that this life and world full of injustices will serve back the evil. Kind of makes the point of jail systems as pointless if the "world" would settle things for us on our own- depending on our deeds and intentions. In Islam God is the true judge of justice, seeming our world is teeming in injustice, there is no Sky Daddy, there is no Earth Daddy but there is God the eternal.
@ramio1983 Part 2: I know all about Islam, I've worked with a devout muslim guy for 4 years, we've debated many hours. You can reject the term "sky daddy" all you want, doesn't change it though. Karma is stupid because it's magical thinking, but then so is Islam, so is Christianity, damn so is Yoga and acupuncture for that matter! your god doesn't interact with people anyway, so sky daddy wouldn't affect criminals decisions anyway. FYI, consider this- atheists are least likely to be jailed
@TheEarthAbides Now i reccomend this video, a TRUE analysis of the Quran from an ATHEIST.
/watch?v=zbRq8Gs6QWM - you really come to see how much good is found in the Quran (all of which is underlooked for the famous - "verse of the sword".)
You have absolutely no good reason to be POSITIVE that God does not exist, outside of a lack of evidence (which is not an argument) give me one good reason why God cant exist? I mean why not?
@ramio1983 I subscribe to ozmoroid, so I have seen this video. I don't htink he's trying to just pull the good out from the garbage, for the sake of it. He's trying to read the book for himself, and started wiht the good. But that makes little difference to a practicing muslim who probably doesn't have the authority to edit gods own words to make them a little more morally acceptable.
Speaking of authority, who allowed you to dismiss the hadith?
@TheEarthAbides I am not stating nothing to that effect. I am not a representative of "true Islam" and neither is my neighbour, or the local Shiekh at Mosque. The beauty of Islam is that it thrives in democracy, unfortunately some nations a theocratic and FORCE their people to be certain kinds of Muslims. The beauty of being free is that a persons interpretation of the Quran is his own. A Muslim with good intent can and will be a great human with the Quran alone if it aligns to their character.
@ramio1983 "The beauty of Islam is that it thrives in democracy" - show me one example... I would say, Islam is antithetical to democracy, hence the fact that every Islamic state is in such bad shape. Sharia destroys freedoms that are fought for in a true democratic society.
@TheEarthAbides Okay i will explain, what i mean is that Islam thrives in democracy is this. Islam that is under political theocracies like Islam and Saudi Arabia fails, it strangles its people to a very narrow path of Islam. Restraining and restricting them. In the west Islam is capable of stretching, it is forced to live with other cultures and people and it integrates very well (maybe except for a few cases). Islam works best in democratic societies (Turkey etc). This is in a general basis.
@ramio1983 Question then, as far as integration and democratic flourishing, how does Islam compare to Christianity, Agnosticism, and Atheism. For example, would you say what Egypt needs right now is an Islamic influence in the government? or would you say, if Egypt wants to be democratic, the less religion plays a part in the government the better... ?
@TheEarthAbides Islam is much younger than Christianity, hence in 600 years who knows what Muslims and Islam will be like, yet i think Islam historically speaking is changing quicker than Christianity and its accomodating itself to others at a better rate. (Eg- 1400 AD Christians were getting over the dark ages and not too long prior finished a few bloody Crusades and still in the Hussite Crusade for 15 yrs). Whereas Islam now has mostly internal issues, not conquering and killing.
@Mattyb88ful I agree these internal issues are very serious and need to be changed, yet its amazing what governments can do to a country, so such changes are likely to occur once a theocratic government is overturned, or makes way for a more democratic one.
I am not sure. There was actually an interesting article in Th Economist a few months ago which basically pointed out that in many Muslim-majority countries - I think Syria was one of their examples - a democratic system would actually be disastrous for religious and other minorities.
@TheEarthAbides So by far Islam is integrating much better than Christianty did 1,400 years into its religion. Atheism and Agnosticm adopt very well i cant argue with that. Right now i think that the people have lived under enough freedom to live their lives with or without an Islamic Influence. The Government of Egypt abandoned its Coptics, yet the Muslims and Coptics love each other (protecting eachother from terror). Egypt will succeed with a moderate leader whether with or without faith.
@TheEarthAbides I also find it highly ironic when Atheists tell me about th no true scotsman fallacy saying that Other Muslims dont consider me a Muslim for rejecting hadiths but then Atheists dare tell me i am not a "real" Muslim for rejecting the hadiths as well lol. Islam is a flexible religion that is growing in the west and thats fantastic, for in a democratic society Islam will only improve. The Quran to me is clear, the pillars of Islam are highlighted clearly, hadiths are suspect to me.
@ramio1983 well, I knew someone close to you had to be muslim, and i was right. also, to be a positive atheist is to just be practical. of course no one can know for certain, but woudln't it be stupid to walk around an not be a positive antiunicornist? or an antisantaclausist? there comes a point when you get tired of the b.s. and just call a spade a spade. the concept of god is magical, it's self contradictory and just really childish when you think about it. it IS a sky daddy, so... come on.
@ramio1983 Keep in mind that atheism can mean different things to different people. Etymologically, the word is a-theism, meaning without theism. Therefore, someone who rejects theistic claim/s is an athiest. You are an atheist when it comes to Zeus, Thor or Xenu, for example. Being an atheist simply means rejecting the claim that a god exists. Some may go further and claim knowledge that no god exists; this is a positive claim, but this is a belief in addition to atheism.
Inquiring minds want to know - what type of ice block/ice cream is it!?
When it comes to religion, you might find the writings of Søren Kierkegaard very interesting from the point of view that he was a Christian but was very much a loner, individual, who shunned the pomp and ceremony that had begun to dominate the established churches. His ideas pretty much could be applied to any religion really - for those who are happy to step out of the 'flock' and forge their own path.
@ramio1983 Ah, I remember those, from Streets :D I remember then when I was in Australia (lived in Aussie for 6 years in total). Working my way through the book God and the New Atheism: A Critical Response to Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens' by John F. Haught but his writing is reliant on the reader having read more than just his book. The Amazon reviews seem to mirror the fact that not a single one of the negative reviewers have actually spent any time reading the books he cites in his writing :/
@kawaiigardiner I've got his second book too - I'm eventually going to get myself an ipad to make reading ebooks a bit easier but so far I've been reading it on my iPod Touch which has been ok especially when I'm on the train to work :D His writing and theology remind me very much of Bishop Shelby Spong and his focus on the big picture rather than nit picking on the small bits here and there that so many scholars and theologians get bogged down with al the hair splitting that takes place.
Thank you very much for great video. I also believe that it takes real courage to announce proudly that you are a Muslim here in the so called 'Western' world. And while I can't speak for Soreta, I wouldn't read too much into the fact that he hasn't continued the dialogue. After all, he's been busy pwning Urbanstylzmemphis and dealing with idiots who believe that fighting for human rights means fighting for the rights of paedophiles! (*FacePalm!*)
A good example of someone exploiting a religion is an ex-porn star now turned fake bullcrap money whore bible thumper who claims she was cured of herpes by God and its now her mission to find current porn stars and "love them out of porn" with the power of old Mr Christ. Her name is Shelley Lubben. She takes donations at her website from her gullible followers and shows hardly any real results of her "cause". Though is keen to show off her shopping trips with the money she leeches.
I dont honestly think it's the specific religion in question that pushes people towards atheism, but rather the way it's used by certain groups, governments to further their own agenda. Nobody like to be spoken down to in an arrogant manner that feels like an ultimatum or threat. Some videos I see of american preachers shouting out threats of going to hell to 5 year old children is quite shocking. I think after years of this type of expression is bound to have a negitive effect on many people.
@donniegerrard another interesting thing I have noticed on numerous occasions is the amount of female porn stars that say they went to a strict catholic girls school when they were younger. What many of these anti-porn faith based groups dont seem to understand is that their very methods of dictating the religion is probally a big contributing factor or why these women end up going into porn. It's rebeling against the system.
@donniegerrard Hey there Donnie, i see what you're saying but remember there are both sides of the spectrum, as a Muslim i have been on the recieving end of insults and abuse for believing what i do, coming from Atheists themselves, one just sent me a video response calling me a stupid asshole and an idiot. Fun times.
@ramio1983 oh I don't doubt that for 1 second. Some of these atheists are just as bad. Athesit e-beggers, athesit false flaggers, atheists making death threats etc....and they have a tendancy to also fight against eachother I have noticed.
As I always keep trying to tell people, arguing, debating religion on youtube is just just a lost cause. It always explodes into drama of abuse, confrontation and false DMCA's. Always ends the same. And notthing ever comes of it.
@donniegerrard Well i dont know, i had a debate with Atheist Youtuber Klingshor for 6 months (we have a video series to each other) debating Islam. I think overall our debate was great and it began my endeavour for something else, no now have dialogue with atheists and in a postive light, not to say who is right or wrong but to understand each other better. I think two level headed people in life or on Youtube could produce a good debate if they are both decent and patient people,not common tho.
Islam...not making money from debts is good. Islam has a kind of consistency about it other faiths may lack. And when it really does bring peace to people, I think that's good. Just a shame religions have bad things too.
To be honest, it really is the default position. I see no reason to believe god, and I think religion causes more harm than good.
What would you rather, that an atheist remained so, or joined a religion besides your own?
As for the standpoint on lack of evidence, there many gods/things you don't believe in without disproving them. Why don't you beleive in the Hindu gods, or fairies?
But thanks for being nice about it, if only other theists were like you :)
@Al1981X Sydney isn't hugely religious, but certain sections could be very much so. As for a reason for believing in God, you see no reasons to believe, i see many- its a subjective view i guess. I'd rather an atheist just be themselves than conform to a religion their heart is not into. The Hindu Gods and fairies have physical attributes, i can picture them now in my head, God is incomprehensible, so i reject Gods that we can picture (Jesus, Krishna/Vishnu, Buddha, Thor, Spaghetti Monster) etc.
I once thought that i could never be an atheist, ppl change
I think it would be great for you to realize that Atheism is not the position that makes a positive claim - meaning, we dont go around claiming THERE IS NO GOD, we simply say there arent any valid reasons to believe in one...let alone in a religion,...God simply isnt part of our lives
If there is a god, it would most likely be deistic, one that doesnt ask for praises or punish ppl for what bronze age ppl thought was a sin
@1Diaaa I think if we gave you half our heat, and you gave us half your cold we'd both currently be in perfect temperatures haha its 4am and i am still melting, my room is so stinking hot! I am not on break though,study study and training for me. :-) Salamu'alaykum
I admire the way you think, if more people were thinking like you
athiest like me wouldn't have had such a hard time coming out
I really don't mind islam, or any other religion
Everyone is free to do whatever they want without being judged
And also the way you say atheism is adorable.. :)
soorakitty 6 months ago
Ramey, Atheism is scarcely a viewpoint at all. It's pretty much just a rejection of what you and other Theists believe. Also, I understand your intended point about it being hard for Atheists, but what individual Atheists do and have to go through doesn't really affect what Atheism itself is. Same applies to the third thing you mentioned.
Gunderson002 1 year ago
@Gunderson002 A rejection of what i and other theists believe IS a view point. Your view point is that my beliefs are false, the reasons behind it change from person to person, yet at the end of the day Atheists share a common disbelief system, they all disbelieve in all Gods- hence this commonality does group you up into one bundle- despite your differences. Peace.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983
No, Atheism is not the immediate disbelief in God. It's just the lack of belief that there's enough evidence to prove that there is a god. Atheists can rage from those completely closed to be the possibility of their being a deity to those very much open to the idea but still don't assertively believe in one.
Gunderson002 1 year ago
@Gunderson002 Mmmm i see what you are saying, yet if that is the case then where is the line between Atheists and Agnostics? If someone is open minded to the idea of God, but doesn't neccessarily believe in a God is this person an Atheist or an Agnostic? For me i find that the disbelief in a God (and the confidence behind this assertion) comes from Atheists.
If Atheists were not a group, why are there Atheist clubs/ Ads/ Youtube channels etc.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983
I can now see where this misconception you have comes from. There is not necessarilly a line between Atheism and Agnosticism. You keep be both. Atheism means the lack of immediate belief in any deity. Agnosticism means being open to the possibility that there is a god. So, as you can see, you can be both. Also, these 'Atheist' clubs you speak of are probably better described as 'secularist' clubs.
Gunderson002 1 year ago
@Gunderson002 Yeah it's odd though how sometimes Atheists dislike being associated with Agnostics (many videos exist, of Atheists saying i am NOT agnostic, i am full blown atheist) and sometimes Agnostics dislike being associated with atheists. My view has always seen a big distinction between agnostics and atheists and i personally have always favoured and respected the agnostic viewpoint moreso than the Atheist view point. I think being both is mere confusion? I could be wrong.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 I think it all come down to if you are an atheist coz you don't think there is enough evidence or if you are it coz you claim to know that there is no God. If you “don't think there is enough.....” you also can call your self an agnostic. But if you claim to know ...well you just know. It is just like some people that believe in God, some claim to know some believes and if you claim to know why question what you know?
PingeMusic 1 year ago
Great video. I am a former atheist turned conservative Muslim myself, although I have to say that the reason for my atheism were almost solely sociological rather than the "scientific rationalism" that most atheists use against religion in general. My conversion to Islam nevertheless is the result of the same sort of thinking process that most former atheists I know have come through already
haha, and its very cold up here in the North, -5 degrees in Philadelphia, PA no one can wait for summer.
arashbd1990 1 year ago
ramio, you keep saying "that's what you believe" when talking about Atheism, that's a mistake
"Atheists love evidence" - that's kind of stupid to say as well. HUMANS love evidence. We don't generally walk around NOT requiring evidence. That's idiotic
however, as you put it, lack of evidence for a god is an argument at all. You know there is no evidence. WHY is this a view point you are extremely opposed to? Atheism forces you to be accountable for your beliefs and actions dude, what the prob?
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Well what atheists disbelieve in is their common belief. They reject all Gods- that is an irrefutable fact and is an orthodox view point of theirs in regards to God, otherwise they would not label themselves as Atheists. Humans love evidence? Well not really, i have no direct evidence God exists, i BELIEVE God exists within my human instinct but there's not much more i can show.
I oppose the notion of being positive that there is no God. Agnosticism i respect more. Peace.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Dude, what you are saying is basically a whole lot of nothing. Humans love evidence for everything that manifests in reality. When you talk about a belief in god, that's something entirely different. You can't separate superstition & brain washing from what you call an "instinct" to believe in some sort of invisible superman. To be technical, most atheists reject any current (lack of) evidence for a god. if good evidence was found, we would change our minds. whats wrong with that?
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Well no, ive been an agnostic most of my life, and my spiritual journey had nothing to do with "brain washing" - infact it was calling from within and this instinct i cannot take away. To me, there is a God.
Of course atheists always try and dumb the God title to "Skydaddies and spaghetti monsters" but it doesn't detract from my point, God might exist and evidence plays NO part in the decision. There cannot be "evidence" for God - we cannot find him hiding and say "gotchya!".
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 why can't there be evidence? also, why do you hold your subjective experience AS an objective form of evidence? if we can be sure of anything in this world it's that our subjective experiences don't count for shit.
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Well according to my beliefs- in Islam God is defined in such a way.
"He beggeteth not. nor is he begotten, and He has no like or parallel." (112:14) "Pure and exalted is thy God the Powerful and Unique, Who is pure of what men in their ignorance ascribe to Him." (37:180)
So to me - God has no like or parallel and he is nothing like what men ascribe to him. Hence if we "seek" evidence, we dont even know what to look for. Other God concepts fail with imagery etc.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Hence Gods like Jesus, Krishna/Vishnu, Thor, Budda, Flying Teapot and Spaghetti Monsters all fail- mainly because i can associate imagery with each of these "Gods". I can associate them to something that is parallel to something or someone else, they aren't unique, God is being ascribed to an object,image or person. These God concepts fail, yet the God concept in Islam is articulate and cannot be debunked due to "lack of evidence" for God is clearly described as tester, not tested.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Dude you are just using islamic characteristics to judge other beliefs. A Hindu could say that your god fails case he doesn't have 8 arms. You can't use a thing to prove itself. In Islam, god is jealous, he makes mistakes and he perpetuates suffering. Those are quite human qualities. You say you believe in this particular character called allah, why? do your parents? does your community, peers? how did you ever come to believe that stuff. BTW have you read the bible?
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Well you are asking me why there cant be evidence for God, i am answering that question based on my beliefs, yes. You are asking for that, why i believe in the God that i do and why there cannot be evidence of him that you require. The Islamic God to me makes sense, the first, the last, the unseen, in incomprehensible. God is outside of our psyche, God is creator- we are creation- hence a creator tests its creation not vice versa. If we "found evidence" we are testing God.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 So by your definition of god, he cannot be tested ofr the purpose of scientific validation or the existence of a deity. Conversely, when it comes to your personal beliefs, instead of saying 'i have no way of knowing whether such a god exists' you claim to have knowledge of such a god's existence?
You claim god has these characteristics because it says so in the Qu'ran. Then you claim the Qu'ran is true because god has these characteristics. Circular logic, no?
SupermarketsRevil 10 months ago
@SupermarketsRevil No i do not know...I only believe- that is the difference. Having faith is a big deal, its a big leap for one person to take, because it is perhaps the only time in our lives where we have to reason with ourselves, our minds, our hearts and make a decision not based on pure evidence that our senses encounter, infact it is a leap of faith - and for some that is hard- yet for me and my decision to embrace Islam, i have found myself very content with my God concept.
ramio1983 10 months ago
@ramio1983 It's amazing how wide a range of views once can have given the same evidence. I guess it just dependds what the prime motivators are for our decision making. Even if I liked the idea of the existence of a god, I couldn't justify such a belief to myself given such a complete absence of evidence. That aside, if i was the kind to belief things on faith I see so much corruption and immorality in the teachings of every religion I've ever known, that also puts me off.
SupermarketsRevil 10 months ago
@ramio1983 I wouldn't say religion is the only facet of our lives where we reason with ourselves based on subjection notions, or faith. Take romantic relationships for example, people can be attracted to people who, logically, are not a good match. It depends on one's personal preferences. Then again, human behaviour and decision making is generally explained with psychology. But I mean, we don't always choose a partner for more pragmatic, sensible reasons, often there's an abstract attraction
SupermarketsRevil 10 months ago
@ramio1983 "No i do not know...I only believe-" This implies you're an agnostic theist. Agnosticism is a philosophical position about our ability to know things, in this case about god. An agnostic will never claim to know anything, no matter how much evidence is put forward. He will simply say we're not capable of "knowing". There are also agnostic atheists. They don't believe in a god, but do not claim to know god doesn't exist either.
thomazz2000 8 months ago
@thomazz2000 My belief doesnt swindle though, my belief in God is concrete- its just that i dont like the terminology of "knowing". I strongly believe God exists and it never sways in the opposite direction, im just not arrogant enough to say i know it (considering i cant directly prove it).
ramio1983 8 months ago
@ramio1983 Feeling agnostic about god is reasonable I think. It doesn't imply "having doubts" about the subject being agnostic towards however. It simply means "it cannot be known". You say you believe, and do not know. This is enough to make you an agnostic....theist, in your case. It is of no relevance how firmly you believe in god, because the belief itself makes you the theist. Hence an agnostic theist :) Y.S.
thomazz2000 8 months ago
@TheEarthAbides My mother is a Christian, my father is a Muslim. My community is very mixed and most of the people i know are not Muslim. I came to believe in it because everything within me is telling me, the concept of Allah rings true to my mind, and its not something i begged for or seeked, but its something i could not put away, or brush aside, Allah got me from all directions and i literally think about Allah every day for the last 5 years without fail. Call it emotional- im convinced.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Why does that convince you though? Look, I was raised by two roman catholic parents, I went to catholic school my whole life. When I think of god, I think of jesus. it's imprinted on my brain simply because it played a part in my upbringing. but the problem is, other people of other faiths feel the same. their inharent concept of their god is always with them as well. once you realize we are all the same because it was instilled in us at some point, you see through all the B.S.
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@ramio1983 do me a favour, I just happened to watch this video, but the guy states a lot of what I was trying to say to you: /watch?v=jkyGT7B0TpY
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides I will watch the video, but remember i oppose atheism because of its positivity that God does not exist, in my eyes that ground is baseless, there is no reason to be positive God does not exist, a lack of evidence to me is not strong enough an argument. I dont believe my view point is BS and trust me, it hasnt been "embedded" into me, i went there on my own and i am very happy with where im going spiritually. Ciao.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 well, I knew someone close to you had to be muslim, and i was right. also, to be a positive atheist is to just be practical. of course no one can know for certain, but woudln't it be stupid to walk around an not be a positive antiunicornist? or an antisantaclausist? there comes a point when you get tired of the b.s. and just call a spade a spade. the concept of god is magical, it's self contradictory and just really childish when you think about it. it IS a sky daddy, so... come on.
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Yeah but i use to have a strong disliking to Islam, then 2 years of studying it blew me away because for the MOST part (not in every aspect) Islam has been hijacked by two parties. Islamophobes and extremists, when i read into Islam with a neutral moderate pair of eyes it was highly refreshing for me and an extremely comforting and soothing recitation that touched my heart despite barely knowing Arabic. Anything you contribute to God is false-including Sky Daddy that aint my God.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 would you have invested 2 years into studying Sikhism? probably not, so you can't exactly rule out the very likely possibility that the amount of exposure to a certain religion can elicit deep emotions that would lead someone to conclude that "they know it's right cause they feel it so".
In Islam, just as in Judaism and Christianity the belief is that good deeds on earth get rewards in a different reality, and bad deeds get punished as well... this is why god is called a sky daddy
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides No. The reason i studied Islam was that its a religion that has A LOT of weight on it, a terrible reputation but a huge following. I want to confirm that indeed the religion my own father follows is one full of hatred, evil and terror- that's what was the opinion of myself and many. I found it weird my beautiful father followed such a "sick" faith, until i studied it and wow...what can i say? I have seen a lot now to realize, most of the things people say are bullshit.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 part 1: you have to admit though, that the problem with Islamic fundamentalism are the fundamentals of Islam... How else could you have millions of people calling for death to cartoonists, stoning women in cold blood, public executions of gays, public maiming of children (to young girls genitals, to marrying 9 year olds, to breaking the arms of children who take a loaf of bread without paying to suicide bombing, to ridiculous blasphemy laws).
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Well mest of these "Fundamentals" of Islam you state are not Islamic. I know there is room for debate, but the Quran states if anyone makes funof the faith or Quran to just turn away. Stoning is now prescribed in the Quran, gays are discouraged from their actions but not to be killed. Female Genitile mutilation is 100% non Islamic, its pre- Islamic African culture- shows how much you know. Most injustices found in Islam arise from the hadiths, some suspicious whispers of 800AD.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Have you ever heard of the "No True Scotsman Fallacy"? It's what every muslim is guilty of when you argue with them about their faith. If the horrors of Islam are pointed out to them they say something to the effect of, "Well, that's not true Islam". maybe it's a case of willful ignorance, I don't know, but at the end of the day MILLIONS of other muslims would disagree with you and say that YOU aren't following the true Islam. Makes you wonder why god couldn't write a clear book
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides As for a "Sky Daddy" i reject this term. People in this world believe in "Karma" under the false delusion that this life and world full of injustices will serve back the evil. Kind of makes the point of jail systems as pointless if the "world" would settle things for us on our own- depending on our deeds and intentions. In Islam God is the true judge of justice, seeming our world is teeming in injustice, there is no Sky Daddy, there is no Earth Daddy but there is God the eternal.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Part 2: I know all about Islam, I've worked with a devout muslim guy for 4 years, we've debated many hours. You can reject the term "sky daddy" all you want, doesn't change it though. Karma is stupid because it's magical thinking, but then so is Islam, so is Christianity, damn so is Yoga and acupuncture for that matter! your god doesn't interact with people anyway, so sky daddy wouldn't affect criminals decisions anyway. FYI, consider this- atheists are least likely to be jailed
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Now i reccomend this video, a TRUE analysis of the Quran from an ATHEIST.
/watch?v=zbRq8Gs6QWM - you really come to see how much good is found in the Quran (all of which is underlooked for the famous - "verse of the sword".)
You have absolutely no good reason to be POSITIVE that God does not exist, outside of a lack of evidence (which is not an argument) give me one good reason why God cant exist? I mean why not?
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 I subscribe to ozmoroid, so I have seen this video. I don't htink he's trying to just pull the good out from the garbage, for the sake of it. He's trying to read the book for himself, and started wiht the good. But that makes little difference to a practicing muslim who probably doesn't have the authority to edit gods own words to make them a little more morally acceptable.
Speaking of authority, who allowed you to dismiss the hadith?
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides I am not stating nothing to that effect. I am not a representative of "true Islam" and neither is my neighbour, or the local Shiekh at Mosque. The beauty of Islam is that it thrives in democracy, unfortunately some nations a theocratic and FORCE their people to be certain kinds of Muslims. The beauty of being free is that a persons interpretation of the Quran is his own. A Muslim with good intent can and will be a great human with the Quran alone if it aligns to their character.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 "The beauty of Islam is that it thrives in democracy" - show me one example... I would say, Islam is antithetical to democracy, hence the fact that every Islamic state is in such bad shape. Sharia destroys freedoms that are fought for in a true democratic society.
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Okay i will explain, what i mean is that Islam thrives in democracy is this. Islam that is under political theocracies like Islam and Saudi Arabia fails, it strangles its people to a very narrow path of Islam. Restraining and restricting them. In the west Islam is capable of stretching, it is forced to live with other cultures and people and it integrates very well (maybe except for a few cases). Islam works best in democratic societies (Turkey etc). This is in a general basis.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Question then, as far as integration and democratic flourishing, how does Islam compare to Christianity, Agnosticism, and Atheism. For example, would you say what Egypt needs right now is an Islamic influence in the government? or would you say, if Egypt wants to be democratic, the less religion plays a part in the government the better... ?
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides Islam is much younger than Christianity, hence in 600 years who knows what Muslims and Islam will be like, yet i think Islam historically speaking is changing quicker than Christianity and its accomodating itself to others at a better rate. (Eg- 1400 AD Christians were getting over the dark ages and not too long prior finished a few bloody Crusades and still in the Hussite Crusade for 15 yrs). Whereas Islam now has mostly internal issues, not conquering and killing.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983
'mostly internal issues'
Very serious internal issues. There's still no concensus on the most basic things like freedom of religion.
Mattyb88ful 1 year ago
@Mattyb88ful I agree these internal issues are very serious and need to be changed, yet its amazing what governments can do to a country, so such changes are likely to occur once a theocratic government is overturned, or makes way for a more democratic one.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983
I am not sure. There was actually an interesting article in Th Economist a few months ago which basically pointed out that in many Muslim-majority countries - I think Syria was one of their examples - a democratic system would actually be disastrous for religious and other minorities.
Mattyb88ful 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides So by far Islam is integrating much better than Christianty did 1,400 years into its religion. Atheism and Agnosticm adopt very well i cant argue with that. Right now i think that the people have lived under enough freedom to live their lives with or without an Islamic Influence. The Government of Egypt abandoned its Coptics, yet the Muslims and Coptics love each other (protecting eachother from terror). Egypt will succeed with a moderate leader whether with or without faith.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@TheEarthAbides I also find it highly ironic when Atheists tell me about th no true scotsman fallacy saying that Other Muslims dont consider me a Muslim for rejecting hadiths but then Atheists dare tell me i am not a "real" Muslim for rejecting the hadiths as well lol. Islam is a flexible religion that is growing in the west and thats fantastic, for in a democratic society Islam will only improve. The Quran to me is clear, the pillars of Islam are highlighted clearly, hadiths are suspect to me.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 you certainly say "to me" a lot though.
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ramio1983 well, I knew someone close to you had to be muslim, and i was right. also, to be a positive atheist is to just be practical. of course no one can know for certain, but woudln't it be stupid to walk around an not be a positive antiunicornist? or an antisantaclausist? there comes a point when you get tired of the b.s. and just call a spade a spade. the concept of god is magical, it's self contradictory and just really childish when you think about it. it IS a sky daddy, so... come on.
TheEarthAbides 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Keep in mind that atheism can mean different things to different people. Etymologically, the word is a-theism, meaning without theism. Therefore, someone who rejects theistic claim/s is an athiest. You are an atheist when it comes to Zeus, Thor or Xenu, for example. Being an atheist simply means rejecting the claim that a god exists. Some may go further and claim knowledge that no god exists; this is a positive claim, but this is a belief in addition to atheism.
SupermarketsRevil 10 months ago
Inquiring minds want to know - what type of ice block/ice cream is it!?
When it comes to religion, you might find the writings of Søren Kierkegaard very interesting from the point of view that he was a Christian but was very much a loner, individual, who shunned the pomp and ceremony that had begun to dominate the established churches. His ideas pretty much could be applied to any religion really - for those who are happy to step out of the 'flock' and forge their own path.
kawaiigardiner 1 year ago
@kawaiigardiner That was a SPLICE ice cream, really yummy actually! :-). Tnx for the input Kawaii.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 Ah, I remember those, from Streets :D I remember then when I was in Australia (lived in Aussie for 6 years in total). Working my way through the book God and the New Atheism: A Critical Response to Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens' by John F. Haught but his writing is reliant on the reader having read more than just his book. The Amazon reviews seem to mirror the fact that not a single one of the negative reviewers have actually spent any time reading the books he cites in his writing :/
kawaiigardiner 1 year ago
@kawaiigardiner I've got his second book too - I'm eventually going to get myself an ipad to make reading ebooks a bit easier but so far I've been reading it on my iPod Touch which has been ok especially when I'm on the train to work :D His writing and theology remind me very much of Bishop Shelby Spong and his focus on the big picture rather than nit picking on the small bits here and there that so many scholars and theologians get bogged down with al the hair splitting that takes place.
kawaiigardiner 1 year ago
Dear Ramey,
Thank you very much for great video. I also believe that it takes real courage to announce proudly that you are a Muslim here in the so called 'Western' world. And while I can't speak for Soreta, I wouldn't read too much into the fact that he hasn't continued the dialogue. After all, he's been busy pwning Urbanstylzmemphis and dealing with idiots who believe that fighting for human rights means fighting for the rights of paedophiles! (*FacePalm!*)
Stay cool my friend! :-)
Ujames1978 1 year ago
@Ujames1978 Cheers UJames, loving your comments as always!! :-)
ramio1983 1 year ago
Comment removed
Ujames1978 1 year ago
nice video
izlamiztruth 1 year ago
Did the Cyclone affect you?
Klingschor 1 year ago
@Klingschor The Cyclone? No it was far far away.
ramio1983 1 year ago
A good example of someone exploiting a religion is an ex-porn star now turned fake bullcrap money whore bible thumper who claims she was cured of herpes by God and its now her mission to find current porn stars and "love them out of porn" with the power of old Mr Christ. Her name is Shelley Lubben. She takes donations at her website from her gullible followers and shows hardly any real results of her "cause". Though is keen to show off her shopping trips with the money she leeches.
donniegerrard 1 year ago
I dont honestly think it's the specific religion in question that pushes people towards atheism, but rather the way it's used by certain groups, governments to further their own agenda. Nobody like to be spoken down to in an arrogant manner that feels like an ultimatum or threat. Some videos I see of american preachers shouting out threats of going to hell to 5 year old children is quite shocking. I think after years of this type of expression is bound to have a negitive effect on many people.
donniegerrard 1 year ago
@donniegerrard another interesting thing I have noticed on numerous occasions is the amount of female porn stars that say they went to a strict catholic girls school when they were younger. What many of these anti-porn faith based groups dont seem to understand is that their very methods of dictating the religion is probally a big contributing factor or why these women end up going into porn. It's rebeling against the system.
donniegerrard 1 year ago
@donniegerrard Hey there Donnie, i see what you're saying but remember there are both sides of the spectrum, as a Muslim i have been on the recieving end of insults and abuse for believing what i do, coming from Atheists themselves, one just sent me a video response calling me a stupid asshole and an idiot. Fun times.
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 oh I don't doubt that for 1 second. Some of these atheists are just as bad. Athesit e-beggers, athesit false flaggers, atheists making death threats etc....and they have a tendancy to also fight against eachother I have noticed.
As I always keep trying to tell people, arguing, debating religion on youtube is just just a lost cause. It always explodes into drama of abuse, confrontation and false DMCA's. Always ends the same. And notthing ever comes of it.
donniegerrard 1 year ago
@donniegerrard Well i dont know, i had a debate with Atheist Youtuber Klingshor for 6 months (we have a video series to each other) debating Islam. I think overall our debate was great and it began my endeavour for something else, no now have dialogue with atheists and in a postive light, not to say who is right or wrong but to understand each other better. I think two level headed people in life or on Youtube could produce a good debate if they are both decent and patient people,not common tho.
ramio1983 1 year ago
Islam...not making money from debts is good. Islam has a kind of consistency about it other faiths may lack. And when it really does bring peace to people, I think that's good. Just a shame religions have bad things too.
Try not to get skin cancer !!
Al1981X 1 year ago
@Al1981X Good points, thanks!
ramio1983 1 year ago
Is Sydney a really religious place?
To be honest, it really is the default position. I see no reason to believe god, and I think religion causes more harm than good.
What would you rather, that an atheist remained so, or joined a religion besides your own?
As for the standpoint on lack of evidence, there many gods/things you don't believe in without disproving them. Why don't you beleive in the Hindu gods, or fairies?
But thanks for being nice about it, if only other theists were like you :)
Al1981X 1 year ago
@Al1981X Sydney isn't hugely religious, but certain sections could be very much so. As for a reason for believing in God, you see no reasons to believe, i see many- its a subjective view i guess. I'd rather an atheist just be themselves than conform to a religion their heart is not into. The Hindu Gods and fairies have physical attributes, i can picture them now in my head, God is incomprehensible, so i reject Gods that we can picture (Jesus, Krishna/Vishnu, Buddha, Thor, Spaghetti Monster) etc.
ramio1983 1 year ago
It was nice to hear those kind words.
Thanks for your efforts of being a good bro in humanity,
iviewthetube 1 year ago
@iviewthetube You are welcome!
ramio1983 1 year ago
I once thought that i could never be an atheist, ppl change
I think it would be great for you to realize that Atheism is not the position that makes a positive claim - meaning, we dont go around claiming THERE IS NO GOD, we simply say there arent any valid reasons to believe in one...let alone in a religion,...God simply isnt part of our lives
If there is a god, it would most likely be deistic, one that doesnt ask for praises or punish ppl for what bronze age ppl thought was a sin
captaindisguise 1 year ago
@captaindisguise Hey Captain, good stuff thanks for your input.
ramio1983 1 year ago
it winter here when do you guys have winter ?
1Diaaa 1 year ago
@1Diaaa We have winter in June,July,August- cant wait actually. I am over this heat ! :-)
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 wow that is so different
lool Come over to canada it is freezing here
so wait you have your summer break now ?
1Diaaa 1 year ago
@1Diaaa I think if we gave you half our heat, and you gave us half your cold we'd both currently be in perfect temperatures haha its 4am and i am still melting, my room is so stinking hot! I am not on break though,study study and training for me. :-) Salamu'alaykum
ramio1983 1 year ago
@ramio1983 lool take it easy man
keep eating the freezies it will cool u down
Take care ....
1Diaaa 1 year ago
That's a pretty serious burn. I like the Islamic Scholars that are so honest. I like the anti-social stratification, I like the honour...
MsMrNoface 1 year ago
@MsMrNoface Thanks dude for inputing your 3 points! That burn is BAD.
ramio1983 1 year ago
Great video budday!
Tashstash81 1 year ago
I think anywhere really, where Atheism is forbidden or looked down on, i think it takes a lot for one to stand by his or her convictions.
ramio1983 1 year ago
I have deep respect for the atheists that are out in countries like, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, even Turkey.
MsMrNoface 1 year ago