Man you look like a fucking murderer. Change the way you make your damn videos. People like you make me want something to believe in so I'm not within the same description of your negativity.
Because thier time is up on earth. Thats why us christians cry, but we should be happy that they go to heaven. Your right us christians we should be thrilled, but whatever they did on earth is done. They do not get to witness more or do other things but that is God's plan. You are right and I am a christian talking to an athiest. In Ecclesiaties 7:1 it says "A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth."
Ok, we do cry sometimes when people die because maybe we think they weren't saved and are going to hell so become sad. If their friends or family, we still miss them and (thinking: because no one can decided where God sends people except Him) their going to Hell is a sad thought. And if someone is a firm believer, personally, when people die I wouldnt say I'm "happy", because obviously I will be sad. But I'm happy for them rather that they can be in the best place ever.
@SunnyD169 You are young and it's hard being shown that all the crap you've been indoctrinated with, by people you love and respect, is just that - crap. If you apply the same rational thinking to whatever your religion is, as you do to probably every other thing in life - you will move beyond this, and be a lot happier.
We realize that "feelings" came unto the earth. Now when a person dies, Most times, we are selfish and will "miss" them so we cry. Sometimes it is the way that they were killed that gives us the feeling of disgust... our outcome is anger, depression and sadness. So to put this in a nut shell... for as long as we live this humanistic life we will cry. Now when we get to heaven there will be no sadness or corruption or conviction or guilt.... AMEN.
@warriorosix I think you are way too intelligent to truly believe this. Oh, you might think you believe it, but deep down, you know that's no different than any other myth or fairy tale that you've heard and DON'T believe. You are going to stick by this one, because you were raised on this particular myth. But that rational little red light up in your brain - it's flashing like crazy right now.
The problem with not calling you on the BS is that it leads you to make really bad choices.
You have got to remember that as humans we have a sense of feeling. There are many feeling that I shouldn't have to explain. Now I am not going to give you specific versus but in the book of genises when GOD created Adam and Eve.... Eve messed up by eating from that tree. GOD then said she and all human kind would have to suffer because sin had entered the world. Immediately it was (to Adam & Eve) a embarrasing thing to see eachother naked so they covered themselves.
Why does a mother cry for her daughter or son when they get married? She knows her daughter or son are going to a better place!!! They cry because they will miss them and because they love them and they wont get to seem them often!! Likewise the same for Christians we know they moved on to a better place but we will miss their company and their memories and that is how we honor them by mourning!
Well it doesn't matter what you believe if you'll see them or not; my point still stands on your Question!
Also Christ also wept for Lazarus and then went to Resurrect him. Weeping is not a sign of weakness but a sign of love. And that's my answer it has nothing to do with where you are going but it is a matter of Love, respect and honoring a loved ones memories.
- The same way I know Hitler army was defeated in WW2 and he committed suicide, The Mongols invaded the Middle East and Russia and killed 1000's and piled up skulls, The Byzantine Empires capital of Constantinople was sacked in 1204, and the Greek philosophers existed. Its called History and I see where you are going and I see that you don't believe in the Bible as an accurate history book but that is your opinion.
I've always wondered this too. I first saw the idea in a movie, "A Cry In The Dark" about the Australian family who's 9 week old baby was eaten by a dingo. They were 7th Day Adventists and were convinced that their daughter was now happy in Heaven with Jesus and there was no need to mourn her. The mother was so stoic and unemotional on the stand that she was convicted of murder but was eventually released.
Very interesting question, I'll be watching the replies for sure. :)
Dude you scare the FUCK out of me. I just get the feeling you keep kids in the basement. Of course you dont but yeah just get that kinda feeling. Of course the most creepy looking dude on here is nephilimfree
Hello, I must ask a question first. If your loved one was to go on vacation, would you miss them. But you know you will see them when they return but you still miss them. So, if one was to loose a loved one, the grief of missing them is part of the mourning process. I hope this answer helps.
why would god give us those instincts if there is nothing to fear...is he a mean person? tricking us in to being afraid, sounds like a 12 year old that was raised incorrectly.
Hi ancientatheist :D Death can be comprehended as a natural process, as can the shutting down of the self/mind. Yet, we may be hard wired to evoke fear, confusion and/or distress when presented with the completeness of death and dying. For any group to claim knowledge of what happens when the self/mind shuts down is a huge stretch of one's imagination. Yet, it seems to fill the lives of those who believe in thingies without proof/evidence/fact. Some cultures celebrate death and sum shun it.
I think it's because no matter how much christianity is beat into ones brain it is truly near impossible to really believe it. A person will always doubt - and in the case of christianity (as well as other religions) things just don't add up properly - therefore even to the most devout christian 2+2 will never equal 5.
I am an atheist, but have spent nearly my entire life thus far as a christian and this is how I see it....
The entire creation story is completely off - horrible biblical morals - biblical god being less intelligent than modern humans - god completely changing almost everything about himself from the old testament to the new (god = jesus - i don't think so) - prayer doesn't work - and the list goes on...
Most importantly - the bible is not backed up by science, contains nothing to elude to any modern wisdom, it's primitive in all aspects of life.
Good points. I've been thinking about the Jesus non sequitur lately. Christians try to point to a couple dozen so called "prophecies" about his coming in the OT. But I know of none that states the Messiah is going to be god's son or some basic essence of himself. Plus the teachings attributed to Jesus don't match very well with the OT god's personality.
It's simple really, people already had the OT - in order write books of the NT it was beneficial to link up some prophetic part of the OT with their new scripts.
One would be sure to do this if writing a sequel to any novel to attain success.
However when writing a sequel one usually follows some logical path from one book to the next.
"The Bible has the comparison of Vlad the Impaler coming back as Gandhi." (my own quote as far as I know)
Well to be honest, I mostly agree with you. (Shocking right?) Here's the thing though. I detest religion, but, I have to say that if we really pay attention to the actual scriptures, versus the doctrine taught over them, as "truth". Then we can see that everything that is now...was pretty much laid out before us & I know you said, a large paragraph isn't necessary, but if given the opportunity (perhaps in a email) I'll gladly elaborate, because there are certain reasons.
Nice idea for a series. With regard to death, and depending on what one reads in the Bible, the dead either go to heaven immmediately or everyone is dead until they are resurrected later, presumably by Jesus. The later view is kind of disturbing in that it brings to mind Michael Jackson's "Thriller" video or perhaps "Dawn of the Dead." I have no special desire to be a zombie.
The Bible doesn't contradict itself in what happens when you die. When you die, you go into the ground. Also made clear is that heaven is the domain for God & his angels ONLY. Believers are trying to gain entry to the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be here on a replenished Earth. No "zombie" worries either, as your need for a vessel (body) isn't relevant. It is your spirit in which is the form you'll be present. As Christ said, you'll be "as the angels in heaven". =)
Well THANK YOU SO MUCH for the instruction BUT, I can assure you I have read your Big Book of Fablesmultiple times; and incidentally, Jesus was simply a backward-assed Jewish apocalypticist, most likely insane, and the Romans nailed him to a tree for it. Best thing that ever happened to him.
ISA 57:1 The righteous perishes, And no man takes it to heart; Merciful men are taken away, While no one considers That the righteous is taken away from evil.
ISA 57:2 He shall enter into peace; They shall rest in their beds, Each one walking in his uprightness.
When a friend in Christ dies I'm not that concerned. I do understand mourning. For the same reason you would be sad if a friend was moving away and you weren't going to see them for a long time.
Why not take up a job that is sure to get you killed so you go to heaven sooner?
Some people try to do this. Martyrdom? But to get to a said Heavenly place you may have to go through some terrifying moments. "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself".
Why are many single men afraid to ask a really pretty women out on a date? The worst that will happen is she will say no, and they will be in the same place as before they asked her out. Asking gives you a chance, instead of no chance.
Why not be happy when a loved one dies who you believe is sure to go to heaven?
Logically you should be happy and in time you may find happiness with this concept. The basic concept says that the person who passed is in a better place now and someday you will see them again. But emotions are not always logical, and tends to see the present as being more important then the future. Also in many cases emotions do not respond to reason. Why are parents sad when there kid goes far away to college?
I just thought about something....in the bible where it states that Jesus learned of the death of his friend ( or possibly his brother in law)....It states: "Jesus wept." That brings up more questions along these lines, doesn't it? If Jesus knew that he'd see his friend in heaven, or better yet, that he could raise his friend from death, why then did he weep?
Actually, you'd ask *much* better questions than me since you obviously had those questions yourself. I'd be happy to turn the enterprise over to you. Just make a nod in my direction since I'm vain. :D
Why mourn the death of a loved one? Because they're gone from my life. Even for a believer, the "eternity in heaven" thing is very distant. I'll still miss them in my everyday life. I'd be astonished if somebody *didn't* mourn for a loved one.
But it isn't a distant thing at all. If you live 70 more years - that's a blink of an eye in "eternity". If you know the loved one has accomplished the only real goal that you have here during our little breath of life, then you should have nothing but happiness for them.
Imagine yourself and your child being swept away in a wild river, your child grabs a branch and hoists herself out of the water and you - cry that she isn't with you anymore? Rather than feel relief?
Of course it's a distant thing. What is 70 years away when I can't remember what I had for dinner last night? For the way it feels *today*, it might as well be 70 centuries.
And "the only real goal that you have here during our little breath of life"... WTF?? That's not me you're describing.
It seems you're trying to apply logical reasoning to an emotion; that doesn't work.
I agree. But I think emotions are absolutely indicative of how you *really* feel. You know when someone dies, you aren't going to see them again. Not *just* for 70 years. That's why it hurts so damn much. I understand. I just want to help people understand that living in a fantasy about death doesn't really make it any easier, so they might as well come and join the rational world.
"I think emotions are absolutely indicative of how you *really* feel. You know when someone dies, you aren't going to see them again."
I think you're projecting your perceptions onto other people though. Everyone hurts when they lose a loved one, regardless of whether they think they'll see them again in an afterlife.
I hope I am projecting my emotions, that I'm correct and that there is hope of us all living together under the umbrella of rationalism. The umbrella of superstition is not going to help us.
To paraphrase another old adage from psychology "just because you're projecting, doesn't mean they aren't thinking that".
I don't really think feeling sad and feeling happy need to be mutually exclusive. I can feel sad that a person has died relative to the subsequent emptiness of my life, whilst still feeling happy for the person who has died has passed on to a better world.
BTW I'm an atheist who used to be Christian answering from that old perspective.
I'm no Christain. Used to be one. And one thing I learned back then was that it was a sin to kill yourself because that is taking your fate into your own hands and neglecting that god has a plan for you.
And since your dead you don't get the chance to redeem yourself and you go straight to hell.
So... that's what I learned when I was a Christain.
Actually, the religion I used to attend used to encourage rejoicing god chose to take someone u knew was "saved". It was okay to miss them, but we were encouraged to accept god's timing.
I saw video from friends on facebook of a preachers funeral and everyone was dancing and celebrating. They called it his welcome home service.
I went to a funeral service in a Lutheran church for myneighbor who had been quite sick. Everyone sat there sad, sad, sad. Now, I know he would be missed by his wife & kids. I looked at all these believers & thought "Why are they so sad if they KNOW that he's in heaven & that they will all be there too?" I asked my aunt, a devout catholic, & she said, "nobody really does know that"--the heaven thing is taken on FAITH. Thats the basis of religion. Not proof or evidence, faith. Thats why.
Well John, first off I would have to say that there unfortunately an inconsitency in beliefs and actions(or in this case words and truely believing and living out those words). My boys' mother (she was my fiance' at the time (( I actually didn't believe in marriage at that time, because of my families past)) ) died of a massive heart attack in 2001 (she was 21). Well it was totally unexpected and so sudden, it totally shook me up, I didn't even go back home for about 6 months, and it took ...
... years to get a grip on it and my emotions, since then I have lost several close people and it just doesn't affect me the same (all of the people as far as I could tell were going to Heaven, that's in God's hands though) but what I am getting at is that having someone so close to you pass away isn't a very common experience and our vocalized beliefs must be tested (by God of course) for us to really understand what it is that we are saying (it's a process of growing that will continue all...
... of our lives). So yes I am very thankful that the people that I love that God has saved are in a much better place and I look forward to spending the rest of eternity with and meeting many others. I grieve for those who are not saved and ask, "What can I do to help people in this life and the next?" . I miss those who have gone before me but only because I will not see them for what "seems" to be a very long time (though this life is but a vapor). like someone I love going away on a very...
... long trip. Christians do put there lives on the line alot, look at the missionaries and persecuted Christians throughout the World, but they are not doing that to slyly commit suicide (God knows the heart) they are doing it to help others in this life and in the next, and others are being killed, imprisoned,beat,etc. because they will not deny God, or "toe the line"(true "freethinkers"). I share my faith because I care John, I care for my fellow man, for this life and the next. Take care.
I'm sorry about your loss, Scott, though it was a long time ago. No one should lose their love at 21.
This still seems like cognitive dissonance to me if we compare the *enormity* of the Christian claim of an afterlife to the reaction. If one truly has *knowledge* that heaven exists, there should be joy - immediately. That there is not, is evidence to me that the so-called knowledge is nothing of the kind.
I think it is a human response to mourn the loss of a loved on because we are selfish: we are going to miss having that person in our lives. That may not be the only reason, but I think it's a large reason. And as an atheist, I would also mourn a younger person's lost chance at living their life and not getting to experience the joys of life. If someone is old and had a fulfilling life, then I would celebrate their life, yet mourn my loss. Does this make sense?
That's a good point: Why aren't all Christians walking around ten feet tall and bullet proof? I mean they cannot be harmed. Theyre like Obi Wan. If you kill them they will rise again stronger than before and even live merrily forever in paradise. Why do they make their kids wear seat belts? Why put Grandma on life support when shes 90 and her body begins to fail her? Where is their faith?
This is a question I've longed to hear an answer to. Most religious are so preoccupied with the afterlife that you'd think they would be delighted someone they love has gotten there quickly. Compared to heavens standards, earth must be like a rotting cesspool, so they should be celebrating a death like they've just won the lottery because, you could argue, the deceased has,
Not all Christians seem to have that attitude to death. The jazz funerals in New Orleans seem to acknowledge the dichotomy of grief for the loss of the loved one with the joy of "knowing" they've gone to heaven. UK Quaker funerals are very different to other Christian funerals, as they are a celebration of the person's life, with attenders dressing in colourful clothes and bringing photos of the deceased, and swapping stories about the person's qualities and why they will be missed.
I'll tell you why I don't buy that, aido. That's all post-grief "show" for the word and to help restore belief. If you could go back a couple of days prior to the funeral and look at all of those same people, you wouldn't see very many of them dancing around the cooling corpse singing "Oh When The Saints Come Marching In". You see screaming and fainting.
Yes, but that is about their loss, not the fate of the deceased. They may well be happy for the deceased, but devastated by their personal loss. I honestly don't know; I just find it interesting that that tradition does make some acknowledgement of the "happy" side of it, in contrast to almost all other Christians.
As to the Quakers, many of them don't believe in an afterlife at all, so that is somewhat different. The practice seems to be common to all Liberal Quakers, though
I think, for those who don't rejoice it's a combination of some, not being convinced enough that they would want to bet their lives on it, and the fact that there's no guarantee. You, or your loved one just might end up in the "other" place sooner than you want.
hehe, I've thought about this many times really ;) I'd love an answer too. Of course I know why I mourn, but really, as you said... with all that a theist believes about the afterlife, they should rejoice at a loved one's death or their own death.
As an ex-Christian, I'd guess that you're both right and wrong.
I'm pretty sure that the majority of Christians believe with all their hearts. But I think there's a subtle difference between consciously believing and what you believe subconsciously. A Christian may automatically push away those warnings his/her subconscious gives, but they cannot ignore their genetic terror of death.
Of course, this probably doesn't apply to the hardcore fundamental wackos.
i think chrisians indeed *know* all their believes are bs, they see and understand the evidence but are drawn to the illusion as a moth is to light - right up to the end. (why that is the case is another question.) only now there is no more avoiding reality. it has caught up and they are scared shitless just because they wasted their lives. soon to be dead but never to truly have lived. tragic.
In their actions, they show they do not truely believe. Maybe the sorrow is instinctive and not connected to belief?
Maybe it's just that Christians think we're all irrational and selfish, so we think loosing someone for a decade or two is worth missing someone. Christians DON'T know eternity - no one can comprehend it. But Christians DO think we have fallen reason and dirty selfishness, which could explain these issues
A lot of Christians do try to martyr themselves don't encourage them :I
Strong questions there. When I was a Christian I didn't see a reason to live. I look forward to dying. Hearing Christians now saying atheists have no reason to live seems very strange to me.
I had a lot of similar questions when I was a kid. I wondered why when a Christian was dying, or deathly ill, other Christians would allegedly pray like mad for the ill one to not die. That didn't jive with the whole "go to heaven when you die" thing. Was that fear of death, or asking God to intervene for reasons of simple selfishness? And then you add the whole omniscience and predetermination thing and one realizes the whole futility of prayer.
I had a professor in college who had to be hospitalized with a potentially very serious condition. When he recovered and resumed his teaching he thanked us all for our earnest prayers for his recovery, but did point out that he found it ironic that we always sing hymns about how wonderful it will be to see Jesus in heaven, but when it looked like he just might be going there, we all prayed to keep it from happening.
When I was ~8 years old and trying to understand my Christian teachings, I once asked:
"Does God want us to go to Heaven?"
"Yes," was the reply.
"Do we go to Heaven when we die?"
"Yes."
"So...does God want us to die as soon as possible so we can go to Heaven and be with him?"
To this day, I still remember the horrified looks on their faces.
I would posit that very deep down (most) Christians secretly suspect it's all bullshit, but maybe that's me projecting my own skepticism on other people.
My parents truly and deeply believe that you MUST believe in "something"; it doesn't matter who you choose.. Apparently atheism is just bad. ??? -- I will never, ever understand this. I find 100% comfort in death being final. (I mean who wants to spend eternity around trees of diamonds if you can't rub your no-no parts on them?! Ceasing to exist is a far more happy thought.)
I think that a lot of people who want to believe in life after death do so because they can`t come to terms with the idea of their loved ones ceasing to exist, not because they themselves fear non-existence. That has been my experience, anyway. I don`t find the idea of non-existence scary, but I don`t find it comforting, either.
that is taught, but the Bible clearly says that once you die, you return to the earth. Heaven is reserved for God & his angels alone. Christians are trying to gain entry to the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be on earth, which is where they would have ever lasting life.
I pray this helps. Any questions you have, you're free to ask me directly & I'll do my best to explain them. (Yes, I'm one of the "learned" or studious Christians.)
@vghopkins Oh boy. Another version of 'The Truth'. Read what you wrote and think about it. It's ridiculous. Really, really, really, earth-shatteringly, mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
Besides Hopkins' ridiculous assertions lies some "truth". Somewhere in the OT it say that when you die, you die. That's it. No heaven or hell. All that is a Christian concept.
Like I said, I make no assertions. If you really truly understood the Scriptures, you would know that the Bible is actually anti-Religious. If you knew the definitions, when it came about, & the internal war that is the deception going on within Christianity, you would understand to a greater extent. I'd be glad to attempt to explain it briefly.
As stated before, there's a difference between scripture & the false doctrine which you know as Christianity.
conditions, so you couldn't do something that would jeopardize your life w/ a hidden agenda because you lost a loved one. God would know your reasons ultimately, & whether he grants you mercy or compassion in that is solely up to him. But suicide by definition is murdering yourself which goes against the commandment - "Thou shalt not murder." This sin will certainly be weighed against you at the time of judgment.
It is also a myth that everyone goes to heaven when they die. This is doctrine (2)
Actually, the original commandment is "Thou Shalt Not Murder" in Hebrew. "Thou shalt not kill" was/is a bad translation because the Bible makes it clear that in instances of self defense, (even defense in acts of war), it is not unlawful to defend your life by taking your attackers.
The context is clear in that regard that a murder is considered an unlawful killing. So having a serial killer executed wouldn't be a paradox due to bad translations =)
It's a common misconception that repentance & forgiveness of sins is akin to automatic entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. A key factor is also whether or not your were ignorant of the Law or not & of your actions & the consequences.
Hebrews 10
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (1)
Also, God does NOT "have" to forgive your sins at all if he doesn't want to. As it is written: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy..." but He is just, so you will get fair judgment.
Your understanding of the Truth of his law would determine whether you were forgiven or if this particular sin would be weighed against you at your judgment.
From that point though, it's really up to the Most High. I'd guess it wouldn't look good dying, knowing it was wrong..JMO...
Well, you didn't have to engage in giving an answer as if you had a partial understanding either. I'm sorry that wasn't satisfactory enough for you & for the record, about 1/3 of the World's population cares about what the Bible says. =)
As a Christian, I have to say your understanding "going to heaven" is incorrect. Being a Christian is really, really complex, because there is a doctrine, (which most people know) & then there is the actual Word.
HOWEVER, not ALL Christians mourn death, so I agree w/ your stance that more people should rejoice, but we're still human. We're still emotional. Jesus himself wept many times for the world because it doesn't see the totality of the deceptions going on.
@adrenacrumb what i've heard is that at some point in history many people started commiting suicide in order to go to heaven faster and then thechurch decided to put this into the doctrine and say that suicide is a sin and those that so it won't go to heaven.not sure if it is true but it makes sense to me since many things in doctrines came later than the bible.still i don't really know for sure i was never religious so i might be wrong.
I hadn't thought about it but looking around it doesn't seem the bible condemns suicide and wasn't really frowned upon in Christianity until Aquinas. Have to do some research.
Man you look like a fucking murderer. Change the way you make your damn videos. People like you make me want something to believe in so I'm not within the same description of your negativity.
Revant4 1 year ago
Because thier time is up on earth. Thats why us christians cry, but we should be happy that they go to heaven. Your right us christians we should be thrilled, but whatever they did on earth is done. They do not get to witness more or do other things but that is God's plan. You are right and I am a christian talking to an athiest. In Ecclesiaties 7:1 it says "A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth."
Christian4life0 1 year ago
Ok, we do cry sometimes when people die because maybe we think they weren't saved and are going to hell so become sad. If their friends or family, we still miss them and (thinking: because no one can decided where God sends people except Him) their going to Hell is a sad thought. And if someone is a firm believer, personally, when people die I wouldnt say I'm "happy", because obviously I will be sad. But I'm happy for them rather that they can be in the best place ever.
SunnyD169 1 year ago
@SunnyD169 You are young and it's hard being shown that all the crap you've been indoctrinated with, by people you love and respect, is just that - crap. If you apply the same rational thinking to whatever your religion is, as you do to probably every other thing in life - you will move beyond this, and be a lot happier.
AncientAtheist 1 year ago
We realize that "feelings" came unto the earth. Now when a person dies, Most times, we are selfish and will "miss" them so we cry. Sometimes it is the way that they were killed that gives us the feeling of disgust... our outcome is anger, depression and sadness. So to put this in a nut shell... for as long as we live this humanistic life we will cry. Now when we get to heaven there will be no sadness or corruption or conviction or guilt.... AMEN.
warriorosix 1 year ago
@warriorosix I think you are way too intelligent to truly believe this. Oh, you might think you believe it, but deep down, you know that's no different than any other myth or fairy tale that you've heard and DON'T believe. You are going to stick by this one, because you were raised on this particular myth. But that rational little red light up in your brain - it's flashing like crazy right now.
The problem with not calling you on the BS is that it leads you to make really bad choices.
AncientAtheist 1 year ago
You have got to remember that as humans we have a sense of feeling. There are many feeling that I shouldn't have to explain. Now I am not going to give you specific versus but in the book of genises when GOD created Adam and Eve.... Eve messed up by eating from that tree. GOD then said she and all human kind would have to suffer because sin had entered the world. Immediately it was (to Adam & Eve) a embarrasing thing to see eachother naked so they covered themselves.
warriorosix 1 year ago
John 11:35- Jesus wept.
ecpizza 1 year ago
Why does a mother cry for her daughter or son when they get married? She knows her daughter or son are going to a better place!!! They cry because they will miss them and because they love them and they wont get to seem them often!! Likewise the same for Christians we know they moved on to a better place but we will miss their company and their memories and that is how we honor them by mourning!
Pharaoh714 1 year ago
@Pharaoh714
I would dispute this and say she cries out of joy.
And, sure, she knows she won't see them as
much. But a christian doesnt KNOW that they
will EVER see the person again. In fact, they
suspect the reality.
AncientAtheist 1 year ago
Well it doesn't matter what you believe if you'll see them or not; my point still stands on your Question!
Also Christ also wept for Lazarus and then went to Resurrect him. Weeping is not a sign of weakness but a sign of love. And that's my answer it has nothing to do with where you are going but it is a matter of Love, respect and honoring a loved ones memories.
Pharaoh714 1 year ago
@Pharaoh714
how do you know Christ wept for Lazarus?
AncientAtheist 1 year ago
- The same way I know Hitler army was defeated in WW2 and he committed suicide, The Mongols invaded the Middle East and Russia and killed 1000's and piled up skulls, The Byzantine Empires capital of Constantinople was sacked in 1204, and the Greek philosophers existed. Its called History and I see where you are going and I see that you don't believe in the Bible as an accurate history book but that is your opinion.
Pharaoh714 1 year ago
@Pharaoh714
When you get down to it, everything is an "opinion"
but some are much more justified than others.
There is a reason that historians don't consider
the NT to be a historical document. It just doesn't
meet historical criterion.
AncientAtheist 1 year ago
Really because St Luke was an accurate historian... anyways I have no time to waste on this, good night.
Pharaoh714 1 year ago
I've always wondered this too. I first saw the idea in a movie, "A Cry In The Dark" about the Australian family who's 9 week old baby was eaten by a dingo. They were 7th Day Adventists and were convinced that their daughter was now happy in Heaven with Jesus and there was no need to mourn her. The mother was so stoic and unemotional on the stand that she was convicted of murder but was eventually released.
Very interesting question, I'll be watching the replies for sure. :)
ahyane 2 years ago
Dude you scare the FUCK out of me. I just get the feeling you keep kids in the basement. Of course you dont but yeah just get that kinda feeling. Of course the most creepy looking dude on here is nephilimfree
myjizzureye 2 years ago 3
Hello, I must ask a question first. If your loved one was to go on vacation, would you miss them. But you know you will see them when they return but you still miss them. So, if one was to loose a loved one, the grief of missing them is part of the mourning process. I hope this answer helps.
LIFT4POWER 2 years ago
@YourPunisherOfLife
why would god give us those instincts if there is nothing to fear...is he a mean person? tricking us in to being afraid, sounds like a 12 year old that was raised incorrectly.
DrOctagonapus132 2 years ago
Hi ancientatheist :D Death can be comprehended as a natural process, as can the shutting down of the self/mind. Yet, we may be hard wired to evoke fear, confusion and/or distress when presented with the completeness of death and dying. For any group to claim knowledge of what happens when the self/mind shuts down is a huge stretch of one's imagination. Yet, it seems to fill the lives of those who believe in thingies without proof/evidence/fact. Some cultures celebrate death and sum shun it.
thedeeliciousplum 2 years ago
...I am guessing that cultural truths are quite subjective and act only to aid folkies in their grieving and/or celebrating processes.
thedeeliciousplum 2 years ago
I think it's because no matter how much christianity is beat into ones brain it is truly near impossible to really believe it. A person will always doubt - and in the case of christianity (as well as other religions) things just don't add up properly - therefore even to the most devout christian 2+2 will never equal 5.
I am an atheist, but have spent nearly my entire life thus far as a christian and this is how I see it....
jxaxmxixn 2 years ago
@jxaxmxixn
I'm curious as to what exactly didn't add up for you personally? I'm not evangelizing, I'm just curious.
vghopkins 2 years ago
@vghopkins
The entire creation story is completely off - horrible biblical morals - biblical god being less intelligent than modern humans - god completely changing almost everything about himself from the old testament to the new (god = jesus - i don't think so) - prayer doesn't work - and the list goes on...
Most importantly - the bible is not backed up by science, contains nothing to elude to any modern wisdom, it's primitive in all aspects of life.
NOT DIVINE!!!
jxaxmxixn 2 years ago
Good points. I've been thinking about the Jesus non sequitur lately. Christians try to point to a couple dozen so called "prophecies" about his coming in the OT. But I know of none that states the Messiah is going to be god's son or some basic essence of himself. Plus the teachings attributed to Jesus don't match very well with the OT god's personality.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
@AncientAtheist
It's simple really, people already had the OT - in order write books of the NT it was beneficial to link up some prophetic part of the OT with their new scripts.
One would be sure to do this if writing a sequel to any novel to attain success.
However when writing a sequel one usually follows some logical path from one book to the next.
"The Bible has the comparison of Vlad the Impaler coming back as Gandhi." (my own quote as far as I know)
How does one believe such nonsense?
jxaxmxixn 2 years ago
Interesting take. I'd say it's a bit bitter for my tastes, but I can certainly understand your perspective, which is exactly that I got. Thanks. =)
vghopkins 2 years ago
I'm glad you got me vghopkins, but i'm now curious on your thoughts on the matter... no need to rush or write some huge paragraph, just wondering...
jxaxmxixn 2 years ago
@jxaxmxixn
Well to be honest, I mostly agree with you. (Shocking right?) Here's the thing though. I detest religion, but, I have to say that if we really pay attention to the actual scriptures, versus the doctrine taught over them, as "truth". Then we can see that everything that is now...was pretty much laid out before us & I know you said, a large paragraph isn't necessary, but if given the opportunity (perhaps in a email) I'll gladly elaborate, because there are certain reasons.
vghopkins 2 years ago
@vghopkins
my YouTube inbox is empty and patiently waiting for your elaboration...
jxaxmxixn 2 years ago
Nice idea for a series. With regard to death, and depending on what one reads in the Bible, the dead either go to heaven immmediately or everyone is dead until they are resurrected later, presumably by Jesus. The later view is kind of disturbing in that it brings to mind Michael Jackson's "Thriller" video or perhaps "Dawn of the Dead." I have no special desire to be a zombie.
RHYMEMAIDEN1 2 years ago
@RHYMEMAIDEN1
The Bible doesn't contradict itself in what happens when you die. When you die, you go into the ground. Also made clear is that heaven is the domain for God & his angels ONLY. Believers are trying to gain entry to the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be here on a replenished Earth. No "zombie" worries either, as your need for a vessel (body) isn't relevant. It is your spirit in which is the form you'll be present. As Christ said, you'll be "as the angels in heaven". =)
vghopkins 2 years ago
Well THANK YOU SO MUCH for the instruction BUT, I can assure you I have read your Big Book of Fablesmultiple times; and incidentally, Jesus was simply a backward-assed Jewish apocalypticist, most likely insane, and the Romans nailed him to a tree for it. Best thing that ever happened to him.
RHYMEMAIDEN1 2 years ago
Well put, Claire! I was wondering what a world full of spirits would need with a "replenished earth".
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
As to your question about why I don't go looking for death that is easy. While Christ did teach us to be bold he also taught us not to be reckless.
MT 10:16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
That said, I am not afraid of bodily death.
97Wildfire 2 years ago
ISA 57:1 The righteous perishes, And no man takes it to heart; Merciful men are taken away, While no one considers That the righteous is taken away from evil.
ISA 57:2 He shall enter into peace; They shall rest in their beds, Each one walking in his uprightness.
When a friend in Christ dies I'm not that concerned. I do understand mourning. For the same reason you would be sad if a friend was moving away and you weren't going to see them for a long time.
97Wildfire 2 years ago
Why not take up a job that is sure to get you killed so you go to heaven sooner?
Some people try to do this. Martyrdom? But to get to a said Heavenly place you may have to go through some terrifying moments. "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself".
Why are many single men afraid to ask a really pretty women out on a date? The worst that will happen is she will say no, and they will be in the same place as before they asked her out. Asking gives you a chance, instead of no chance.
C1oseYetFarr 2 years ago
Why not be happy when a loved one dies who you believe is sure to go to heaven?
Logically you should be happy and in time you may find happiness with this concept. The basic concept says that the person who passed is in a better place now and someday you will see them again. But emotions are not always logical, and tends to see the present as being more important then the future. Also in many cases emotions do not respond to reason. Why are parents sad when there kid goes far away to college?
C1oseYetFarr 2 years ago
I just thought about something....in the bible where it states that Jesus learned of the death of his friend ( or possibly his brother in law)....It states: "Jesus wept." That brings up more questions along these lines, doesn't it? If Jesus knew that he'd see his friend in heaven, or better yet, that he could raise his friend from death, why then did he weep?
Hereticbooks 2 years ago
Great question. This is going to be a good series, and I sincerely hate you with everything that is in me because I didn't think of it first!
crazypills2 2 years ago
Actually, you'd ask *much* better questions than me since you obviously had those questions yourself. I'd be happy to turn the enterprise over to you. Just make a nod in my direction since I'm vain. :D
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"I'd be happy to turn the enterprise over to you. Just make a nod in my direction since I'm vain. :D" - AA
Your vanity is well-deserved. There is no way I would take this over. The bar is set too high and a failure would be my doom!
crazypills2 2 years ago
AA, you have no idea how much I respect you, mate.
Hereticbooks 2 years ago
good question
TheUnmaskedMagician 2 years ago
Let's hope they think about it! ;)
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Great video. subbing
TucsonDave111 2 years ago
Thank you, Dave.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Why mourn the death of a loved one? Because they're gone from my life. Even for a believer, the "eternity in heaven" thing is very distant. I'll still miss them in my everyday life. I'd be astonished if somebody *didn't* mourn for a loved one.
papafox 2 years ago
But it isn't a distant thing at all. If you live 70 more years - that's a blink of an eye in "eternity". If you know the loved one has accomplished the only real goal that you have here during our little breath of life, then you should have nothing but happiness for them.
Imagine yourself and your child being swept away in a wild river, your child grabs a branch and hoists herself out of the water and you - cry that she isn't with you anymore? Rather than feel relief?
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Of course it's a distant thing. What is 70 years away when I can't remember what I had for dinner last night? For the way it feels *today*, it might as well be 70 centuries.
And "the only real goal that you have here during our little breath of life"... WTF?? That's not me you're describing.
It seems you're trying to apply logical reasoning to an emotion; that doesn't work.
papafox 2 years ago
I agree. But I think emotions are absolutely indicative of how you *really* feel. You know when someone dies, you aren't going to see them again. Not *just* for 70 years. That's why it hurts so damn much. I understand. I just want to help people understand that living in a fantasy about death doesn't really make it any easier, so they might as well come and join the rational world.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
"I think emotions are absolutely indicative of how you *really* feel. You know when someone dies, you aren't going to see them again."
I think you're projecting your perceptions onto other people though. Everyone hurts when they lose a loved one, regardless of whether they think they'll see them again in an afterlife.
papafox 2 years ago
I hope I am projecting my emotions, that I'm correct and that there is hope of us all living together under the umbrella of rationalism. The umbrella of superstition is not going to help us.
To paraphrase another old adage from psychology "just because you're projecting, doesn't mean they aren't thinking that".
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
I don't really think feeling sad and feeling happy need to be mutually exclusive. I can feel sad that a person has died relative to the subsequent emptiness of my life, whilst still feeling happy for the person who has died has passed on to a better world.
BTW I'm an atheist who used to be Christian answering from that old perspective.
holyhell5050 2 years ago
"Why do we pitty the dead" from Bad Religion comes to mind...
DeletedDelusion 2 years ago
"Bad Religion" :)
They have a channel page. Good stuff.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
I'm no Christain. Used to be one. And one thing I learned back then was that it was a sin to kill yourself because that is taking your fate into your own hands and neglecting that god has a plan for you.
And since your dead you don't get the chance to redeem yourself and you go straight to hell.
So... that's what I learned when I was a Christain.
Sanngot 2 years ago
I have been to Christian funerals in which the mourners, through their obvious sadness, professed a joy that their loved one was in a better place.
Kinda like "Miss ya, Uncle Bob, but we're glad you're dead!"
They might as well be dancing on the grave.
grindstonejournal 2 years ago
Actually, the religion I used to attend used to encourage rejoicing god chose to take someone u knew was "saved". It was okay to miss them, but we were encouraged to accept god's timing.
I saw video from friends on facebook of a preachers funeral and everyone was dancing and celebrating. They called it his welcome home service.
It was so creepy.
Lovingdoubt 2 years ago
I know what an eternity is: Watching one of your videos! :P
Seriously, though, good questions.. look forward to some answers... :)
kirke420 2 years ago
I went to a funeral service in a Lutheran church for myneighbor who had been quite sick. Everyone sat there sad, sad, sad. Now, I know he would be missed by his wife & kids. I looked at all these believers & thought "Why are they so sad if they KNOW that he's in heaven & that they will all be there too?" I asked my aunt, a devout catholic, & she said, "nobody really does know that"--the heaven thing is taken on FAITH. Thats the basis of religion. Not proof or evidence, faith. Thats why.
Donnatella624 2 years ago
Well John, first off I would have to say that there unfortunately an inconsitency in beliefs and actions(or in this case words and truely believing and living out those words). My boys' mother (she was my fiance' at the time (( I actually didn't believe in marriage at that time, because of my families past)) ) died of a massive heart attack in 2001 (she was 21). Well it was totally unexpected and so sudden, it totally shook me up, I didn't even go back home for about 6 months, and it took ...
disofchrist 2 years ago
... years to get a grip on it and my emotions, since then I have lost several close people and it just doesn't affect me the same (all of the people as far as I could tell were going to Heaven, that's in God's hands though) but what I am getting at is that having someone so close to you pass away isn't a very common experience and our vocalized beliefs must be tested (by God of course) for us to really understand what it is that we are saying (it's a process of growing that will continue all...
disofchrist 2 years ago
... of our lives). So yes I am very thankful that the people that I love that God has saved are in a much better place and I look forward to spending the rest of eternity with and meeting many others. I grieve for those who are not saved and ask, "What can I do to help people in this life and the next?" . I miss those who have gone before me but only because I will not see them for what "seems" to be a very long time (though this life is but a vapor). like someone I love going away on a very...
disofchrist 2 years ago
... long trip. Christians do put there lives on the line alot, look at the missionaries and persecuted Christians throughout the World, but they are not doing that to slyly commit suicide (God knows the heart) they are doing it to help others in this life and in the next, and others are being killed, imprisoned,beat,etc. because they will not deny God, or "toe the line"(true "freethinkers"). I share my faith because I care John, I care for my fellow man, for this life and the next. Take care.
disofchrist 2 years ago
I'm sorry about your loss, Scott, though it was a long time ago. No one should lose their love at 21.
This still seems like cognitive dissonance to me if we compare the *enormity* of the Christian claim of an afterlife to the reaction. If one truly has *knowledge* that heaven exists, there should be joy - immediately. That there is not, is evidence to me that the so-called knowledge is nothing of the kind.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
I think it is a human response to mourn the loss of a loved on because we are selfish: we are going to miss having that person in our lives. That may not be the only reason, but I think it's a large reason. And as an atheist, I would also mourn a younger person's lost chance at living their life and not getting to experience the joys of life. If someone is old and had a fulfilling life, then I would celebrate their life, yet mourn my loss. Does this make sense?
smrne 2 years ago
That's a good point: Why aren't all Christians walking around ten feet tall and bullet proof? I mean they cannot be harmed. Theyre like Obi Wan. If you kill them they will rise again stronger than before and even live merrily forever in paradise. Why do they make their kids wear seat belts? Why put Grandma on life support when shes 90 and her body begins to fail her? Where is their faith?
leavesof3 2 years ago
This is a question I've longed to hear an answer to. Most religious are so preoccupied with the afterlife that you'd think they would be delighted someone they love has gotten there quickly. Compared to heavens standards, earth must be like a rotting cesspool, so they should be celebrating a death like they've just won the lottery because, you could argue, the deceased has,
StanMarsh1 2 years ago
Not all Christians seem to have that attitude to death. The jazz funerals in New Orleans seem to acknowledge the dichotomy of grief for the loss of the loved one with the joy of "knowing" they've gone to heaven. UK Quaker funerals are very different to other Christian funerals, as they are a celebration of the person's life, with attenders dressing in colourful clothes and bringing photos of the deceased, and swapping stories about the person's qualities and why they will be missed.
aido92 2 years ago
I'll tell you why I don't buy that, aido. That's all post-grief "show" for the word and to help restore belief. If you could go back a couple of days prior to the funeral and look at all of those same people, you wouldn't see very many of them dancing around the cooling corpse singing "Oh When The Saints Come Marching In". You see screaming and fainting.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Yes, but that is about their loss, not the fate of the deceased. They may well be happy for the deceased, but devastated by their personal loss. I honestly don't know; I just find it interesting that that tradition does make some acknowledgement of the "happy" side of it, in contrast to almost all other Christians.
As to the Quakers, many of them don't believe in an afterlife at all, so that is somewhat different. The practice seems to be common to all Liberal Quakers, though
aido92 2 years ago
I think, for those who don't rejoice it's a combination of some, not being convinced enough that they would want to bet their lives on it, and the fact that there's no guarantee. You, or your loved one just might end up in the "other" place sooner than you want.
TheNakedAtheist 2 years ago
hehe, I've thought about this many times really ;) I'd love an answer too. Of course I know why I mourn, but really, as you said... with all that a theist believes about the afterlife, they should rejoice at a loved one's death or their own death.
tattooskin72 2 years ago
even though i am not a christian i think i have an answer to your question.
christians fear death because they dont really believe what they claim to believe when in public or with other christians.
in other words, they know death is the end of it. period. that is why they fear death and mourn the dead loved ones.
am i in the ballpark here christians?
afielsch 2 years ago
As an ex-Christian, I'd guess that you're both right and wrong.
I'm pretty sure that the majority of Christians believe with all their hearts. But I think there's a subtle difference between consciously believing and what you believe subconsciously. A Christian may automatically push away those warnings his/her subconscious gives, but they cannot ignore their genetic terror of death.
Of course, this probably doesn't apply to the hardcore fundamental wackos.
That's me trying to psychoanalyze.
nemo3590 2 years ago
i think chrisians indeed *know* all their believes are bs, they see and understand the evidence but are drawn to the illusion as a moth is to light - right up to the end. (why that is the case is another question.) only now there is no more avoiding reality. it has caught up and they are scared shitless just because they wasted their lives. soon to be dead but never to truly have lived. tragic.
afielsch 2 years ago 2
In their actions, they show they do not truely believe. Maybe the sorrow is instinctive and not connected to belief?
Maybe it's just that Christians think we're all irrational and selfish, so we think loosing someone for a decade or two is worth missing someone. Christians DON'T know eternity - no one can comprehend it. But Christians DO think we have fallen reason and dirty selfishness, which could explain these issues
A lot of Christians do try to martyr themselves don't encourage them :I
unassumption 2 years ago
Strong questions there. When I was a Christian I didn't see a reason to live. I look forward to dying. Hearing Christians now saying atheists have no reason to live seems very strange to me.
JemyM 2 years ago 2
I had a lot of similar questions when I was a kid. I wondered why when a Christian was dying, or deathly ill, other Christians would allegedly pray like mad for the ill one to not die. That didn't jive with the whole "go to heaven when you die" thing. Was that fear of death, or asking God to intervene for reasons of simple selfishness? And then you add the whole omniscience and predetermination thing and one realizes the whole futility of prayer.
SmilingSkeptic 2 years ago
I had a professor in college who had to be hospitalized with a potentially very serious condition. When he recovered and resumed his teaching he thanked us all for our earnest prayers for his recovery, but did point out that he found it ironic that we always sing hymns about how wonderful it will be to see Jesus in heaven, but when it looked like he just might be going there, we all prayed to keep it from happening.
kevinanity 2 years ago
When I was ~8 years old and trying to understand my Christian teachings, I once asked:
"Does God want us to go to Heaven?"
"Yes," was the reply.
"Do we go to Heaven when we die?"
"Yes."
"So...does God want us to die as soon as possible so we can go to Heaven and be with him?"
To this day, I still remember the horrified looks on their faces.
I would posit that very deep down (most) Christians secretly suspect it's all bullshit, but maybe that's me projecting my own skepticism on other people.
nemo3590 2 years ago 5
nemo, great comment.
My parents truly and deeply believe that you MUST believe in "something"; it doesn't matter who you choose.. Apparently atheism is just bad. ??? -- I will never, ever understand this. I find 100% comfort in death being final. (I mean who wants to spend eternity around trees of diamonds if you can't rub your no-no parts on them?! Ceasing to exist is a far more happy thought.)
turtle2hug 2 years ago
I think that a lot of people who want to believe in life after death do so because they can`t come to terms with the idea of their loved ones ceasing to exist, not because they themselves fear non-existence. That has been my experience, anyway. I don`t find the idea of non-existence scary, but I don`t find it comforting, either.
DickensianDreams 2 years ago
I am looking forward to that, Todd!
skinnyjohnsen 2 years ago
that is taught, but the Bible clearly says that once you die, you return to the earth. Heaven is reserved for God & his angels alone. Christians are trying to gain entry to the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be on earth, which is where they would have ever lasting life.
I pray this helps. Any questions you have, you're free to ask me directly & I'll do my best to explain them. (Yes, I'm one of the "learned" or studious Christians.)
Shalom, chaver.
vghopkins 2 years ago
@vghopkins Oh boy. Another version of 'The Truth'. Read what you wrote and think about it. It's ridiculous. Really, really, really, earth-shatteringly, mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
AuntieDiluvian 2 years ago
@AuntieDiluvian
Besides Hopkins' ridiculous assertions lies some "truth". Somewhere in the OT it say that when you die, you die. That's it. No heaven or hell. All that is a Christian concept.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
@Aaberg123
Like I said, I make no assertions. If you really truly understood the Scriptures, you would know that the Bible is actually anti-Religious. If you knew the definitions, when it came about, & the internal war that is the deception going on within Christianity, you would understand to a greater extent. I'd be glad to attempt to explain it briefly.
As stated before, there's a difference between scripture & the false doctrine which you know as Christianity.
vghopkins 2 years ago
@AuntieDiluvian Ridiculous because you don't understand it? You should study more.
vghopkins 2 years ago
I understand it only too well my dear. Been there, done that, got the guilt complex.
AuntieDiluvian 2 years ago
@AuntieDiluvian
More mind-bogglingly ridiculous than Christianity? Judaism only has one mind bogglingly ridiculous book, so it should only be half as ridiculous. :p
TheNakedAtheist 2 years ago
continued..
I actually like Judaism better they have no "hell", that's a Christian invention.
TheNakedAtheist 2 years ago
conditions, so you couldn't do something that would jeopardize your life w/ a hidden agenda because you lost a loved one. God would know your reasons ultimately, & whether he grants you mercy or compassion in that is solely up to him. But suicide by definition is murdering yourself which goes against the commandment - "Thou shalt not murder." This sin will certainly be weighed against you at the time of judgment.
It is also a myth that everyone goes to heaven when they die. This is doctrine (2)
vghopkins 2 years ago
Every Christian religion website I look at, it's "Thou shalt not kill." instead of murder.
CJCA915 2 years ago
@CJCA915
The reason they changed it to "thou shalt not murder" is to rationalise the hypocritical behaviour of their God.
I don't know Hebrew, but my father does. I guess I could ask him.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
ah, of course.
You can if you want, it's up to you.
CJCA915 2 years ago
@Aaberg123
Actually, the original commandment is "Thou Shalt Not Murder" in Hebrew. "Thou shalt not kill" was/is a bad translation because the Bible makes it clear that in instances of self defense, (even defense in acts of war), it is not unlawful to defend your life by taking your attackers.
The context is clear in that regard that a murder is considered an unlawful killing. So having a serial killer executed wouldn't be a paradox due to bad translations =)
vghopkins 2 years ago
Also, murder is killing without just cause, and some who commit suicide may have just cause for doing so.
CJCA915 2 years ago
@vghopkins
What if you ate deadly poison that would kill you in 2 hours and then you asked god for forgiveness?
The only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit, murder, even of oneself is not an unforgiveable sin.
God would have to forgive your sins and you would go to heaven despite having committed suicide.
nakedapedude 2 years ago
Nice! :D
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
@nakedapedude
It's a common misconception that repentance & forgiveness of sins is akin to automatic entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. A key factor is also whether or not your were ignorant of the Law or not & of your actions & the consequences.
Hebrews 10
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (1)
vghopkins 2 years ago
@nakedapedude
Also, God does NOT "have" to forgive your sins at all if he doesn't want to. As it is written: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy..." but He is just, so you will get fair judgment.
Your understanding of the Truth of his law would determine whether you were forgiven or if this particular sin would be weighed against you at your judgment.
From that point though, it's really up to the Most High. I'd guess it wouldn't look good dying, knowing it was wrong..JMO...
vghopkins 2 years ago
@vghopkins
it's all a load of bollocks so who really gives a crap what the bible says about anything
nakedapedude 2 years ago
@nakedapedude
Well, you didn't have to engage in giving an answer as if you had a partial understanding either. I'm sorry that wasn't satisfactory enough for you & for the record, about 1/3 of the World's population cares about what the Bible says. =)
vghopkins 2 years ago
@vghopkins
"about 1/3 of the world's population cares about what the bible says"
yes, we're currently working on significantly reducing that number, so far so good
nakedapedude 2 years ago
As a Christian, I have to say your understanding "going to heaven" is incorrect. Being a Christian is really, really complex, because there is a doctrine, (which most people know) & then there is the actual Word.
HOWEVER, not ALL Christians mourn death, so I agree w/ your stance that more people should rejoice, but we're still human. We're still emotional. Jesus himself wept many times for the world because it doesn't see the totality of the deceptions going on.
Also God can read heart...(1)
vghopkins 2 years ago
personally I think most belief is based on a fear of death, or a fear of no longer existing. but what do I know
nelliediddle 2 years ago 3
I don't know what you know but I know I think the same, you know?
Wanna help me sing a song?
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Former believer-Plymouth Brethren fundie.
Nobody cries at a funeral,everybody does rejoice.
It's sad but nothing to worry about, they're in heaven.
Fear of death is another story, it's natural to man.
TheXroadr 2 years ago
I don't see why suicide is bad in Christianity, how was what Jesus did not suicide?
adrenacrumb 2 years ago 2
@adrenacrumb what i've heard is that at some point in history many people started commiting suicide in order to go to heaven faster and then thechurch decided to put this into the doctrine and say that suicide is a sin and those that so it won't go to heaven.not sure if it is true but it makes sense to me since many things in doctrines came later than the bible.still i don't really know for sure i was never religious so i might be wrong.
christine13black 2 years ago 2
I hadn't thought about it but looking around it doesn't seem the bible condemns suicide and wasn't really frowned upon in Christianity until Aquinas. Have to do some research.
adrenacrumb 2 years ago
Do me a favor and let me know if you get an answer. I've had no luck getting an answer on this myself.
TheTruePooka 2 years ago
Good question.
Vogter2100 2 years ago