Derek Wall talks about climate change

[parallelepipete]

Oh, and to billymodo, while I'm here: are you really arguing that if politicians exploit a real problem for their own ends, we shouldn't do anything about it?

[parallelepipete]

Er - what Green Party are you talking about?

[billymodo]

Climate change is real but cannot be caused by human activity. Not one science document looked at by the IPCC finds a causal link and many misrepresented scientists want to have their names removed from the list of contributers. Even the IPCC's own conclusion states that a link could not be proved.

The real cause is complex but not complicated yet the solution is simple. I used to beleive you until I studied the science for myself.

[parallelepipete]

"Proof" only happens in mathematics and formal logic. Scientists deal in strength of evidence. I suggest that people sit down and at least read the Executive Summary from the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report, Working Group 1 - because it doesn't bear much relation to billymodo's comment.

[billymodo]

'Strength of evidence'... Try this for strength of eveidence. What percentage of the atmosphere is made up of this killer Co2 stuff?

It's 0.038% or 380 parts per million.

In 1981 (according to the govt. documents) it was 354 parts per million. A 26 part rise in 26 years (or ten years, it stopped rising in 1991) The entire human contribution to the total Co2 is 19 ppm.

So tell me how can our Co2 emissions of 19 ppm cause a rise of 26 ppm?

Wanna know what really caused the rise in Co2...

[parallelepipete]

Billy, atmospheric CO2 concentration did not stop rising in 1991, and the graph of measurements at Mauna Loa Observatory on the website of NASA's Earth Systems Research Laboratory demonstrates this quite clearly.

Anyway, you have confused figures for 1981 and 1991. Seasonally-adjusted CO2 concentrations were:

Jan 1981 339.49

Jan 1991 354.76

Jan 2008 384.94

And why is CO2's low absolute concentration significant?

[billymodo]

So you say but I was reading from the uk governments report from it's own climate change commitee. Recent reports/predictions are not even based on atmospheric tests but on predicted increase in sales of fossil fuels.

The Key stage three science curiculum teaches that the human contribution of Co2 is 5%, again too small to be the cause of climate change. The environmental argument is valid with regard to earth husbandry but it is in reality an excuse to impose controls on a duped populous.

[parallelepipete]

I don't say it, NASA says it. And of course predictions are based on projected demand for fossil fuels. That is ultimately where the excess CO2 comes from. Would you simply draw a straight line through the Mauna Loa data?

Re. your 5%: firstly, pre-industrial CO2 was 280 ppm, and it's now 385 ppm (a 37.5% increase). Secondly, both ocean and land are still (for now) net absorbers of carbon. Yet CO2 has still increased. From where else except fossil fuels could that excess CO2 have come?

[billymodo]

Bunsfield disasdter! A 200 sq. mile sooty black chemical soup, visible from France, put more Co2 into the atmosphere in a few hours than the UK has since the last war.

Mount St. Helens volcanoe in the US put more Co2 into the atmosphere in it's first 15 hours than the whole of humanity since time began. (and it hasn't stopped in almost thiry years). Seveteen other major eruptions in the last twenty five years. (there's more)

Still think it's my fault for plugging my phone charger in too long?!

[parallelepipete]

Ahem: I mean, do anything about the problem. Of course we should do something about the politicians exploiting it, I'm sure we can agree on that.

[billymodo]

I feel very angry about the way our polititians have used climate change.

The climate IS changing and we must do something. You and I could sit and formulate an amazing plan... a vision for the future.

Our government vision stops at screwing the taxpayer.

I have four green recycling bins that carry a microchip so the local Govt. can make sure that I recycle. If I don't recycle enough then I face a £1000 fine and a criminal record. Meanwhile the packaging industry grows exponetially. AAAh!!!

[greenpartyew]

The Green Party is not against EU membership. We are however in favour of democratising its institutions and against the single currency.