To be in the number of those counted worthy to give praise to my Lord day and night, is my desire. Worthy is the Almighty One, who was and is and is to come! No concerns for family members or wives. God has everything in control so there's no need for anyone else to become a "god". I don't want anyone to worship me, as I am only a pile of dust; a vapor who is only here for a moment. I, like many other Christians want all to know the truth, which will set you free!! In Christ's love.....
In the definition of Christianity is to have one god that's part of the defintion but to think you can become a god is not Christianity that is polytheism
Shawn, arquing with ignorant people like you is worthless; i rather fight w/a beast then you and all these ignorant, mentally retarded,stupid&dum people who talked bad about this church; all of you don't know enough about the mysterious of the Kingdom, just running your mouths and not take the time to study this church; come on, you all need to be educated; so, you can out of your ignorance; i challange you w/a simple question,how long is eternal?&what's wrong w/plural marriage in the eternity?
@CWMaua12 .. better to ask what's wrong with plural Gods.... The Bible (GOD) states there is only ONE GOD. don't you think it's about time mormons actually did their own personal research into the matter? As for plural marriage in Heaven.. The bible states that there is no marriage in Heaven. Another good example of Why mormon teaching isn't christian. Many mysteries.. correct.. but we do have these answers in the bible - read them!
@54v115 I can see that you are one of those people like Shawn Mccraney, rebellious against the true church (The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S., Why dont u ask yourself this qs. The Bible is the Word of God the Father and Goddess the Mother, as far as it is translated correctly. The Book of Mormon is also the Word of God the Father and Goddess the Mother. Your totally lost.
@54v115 Theres too many important info thats missing in the Holy Bible, the translation of some scriptures are a problem too, think about this, how many times the evil ones in the past kept trying to destroy the Holy Bible, u need to pray hard about these things, ask yourself this qs. we werent created by an image of a tree or any of Gods creation, all men were created by the image of our God Father and all women were created by the image of our Goddess Mother.
@54v115 So, since we were created by the images of our Heavenly Parents, we can become as Gods and Goddess. Your not smart enough u still ignorant about these mysteries, and its very obvious, hope im educating u and u have to understand these truths or maybe im giving u too much info that you might be confused or still remain in the state of ignorance. Too many mysterious that lots of people dont know about the eternities, The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S. is the only true Gospel.
@CWMaua12 - Images of our Heavenly parents.. What sort of twit are you? Gods and Godesses MEANS polytheism moron. The BIBLE tells us.. in the words of JESUS.. ONLY ONE GOD ETERNAL. ONE period! You think you're smart..lol...you can't grasp that one simple Holy Statement.. so put away your mormon constructs little boy and get someone who knows .. more than you.. wanker!
Polygamy is not permitted in the Christian religion. 1 Corinthians 7:2 :... Let each man have his own wife (singular) and let every woman have her own husband. ...
Polygamy has a negative effect on women and children, well documented in the medical literature.
The gothic women tend to have alot of the same tastes as me, however there ARE gothic Mormon chicks but its the parents I have to deal with when it comes to them, close-minded as hell. They tend to look down upon any Mormon who happens to enjoy metal and horror films, and in my case runs a horror movie review youtube channel, lolz. I'm not in Utah anymore though, but the Nevada town I live in is filled with open-minded Mormons... we go drinking... and yes we drink coke, jack and coke lolz
Yeah, I see them in the store alot... they buy ALOT of green jello and they look like cast members from Little House on the Prairie. And polygamy is not in the past, that why I plan to get married once, I don't want to deal with like 7 wives in the afterlife, I can barely deal with relationships as it is. Thats why, as an open-minded Mormon I don't date Mormon chicks, I like the goth rocker type ya know what I mean?
Ok that may be true but for those who dont believe in the church also dont believe that a sealing is for eternity. Therefore in their minds it would not be polygamy. To say that it is polygamy would be the same as saying you believe that sealings are eternal.
They may not have intended to but they did. Look at our articles of faith. And while a man may bne able to be sealed to mare than one it is usually only when one of the two dies that they are sealed again. In the case of divorce the sealing is usually also broken. I have personally seen it with my grandfather
Hi. I have a question. I am a recent convert. Is there a specific time that the church changed drastically in it's early years? Specifically, the Book of Abraham, the temple rites and such. Did these occur at the same time? I am trying to figure if Mormonism got "hijacked" at all on it's way. Thanks - Jim
@thatjimguy Mormonism was never Christian, and it directly contradicts the Book of Galatians, chapter one. Please read it right now. Joseph Smith claims to have brought another Gospel, Paul specifically warns against that in Galatians 1!!
@thatjimguy - the book of abraham is a Jo Smith consruct based upon egyptian papyri bought from a travelling salesman... Most major and serious Academics do not agree with smiths interpretation of the hieroglyphics contained on the papyri.. Mormonism is Joseph Smiths plagiarised ridden story.. invented at the same time as many other cults of the time and area. Go to the Bible and see Chriatian doctrine, mormonism isn't christian...
Im not a mormon, but I understand where you are coming from. I grew up as Jehovahs Witness, the two groups are fairly close, as their past is simular, both have masonic backgrounds. JW also teach that it is alright to lie, as they redfine its meaning, you only lie if you do not tell the truth to those that are not priveleged to know it. This is wrong.
Jesus Christ is the only Way to salvation, in Him we have Life. He is our Creator and not a created being. This was truly liberating for me.
No you cannot have plural wives now. Before 1890 yes you could. Now ask youself this was it illegal when the church practiced it? Did other people outside of the LDS church say maybe in the bible do it?
Moving the goalpost.... First, the discussion was about Joseph Smith, not 40 years later. But, in answer to your question, there are only two things that have ever "changed" (given and taken away) at different times in scriptural history, and that is Plural Marriage/Polygamy and the Priesthood of God.
Thus, that is the answer to your question.... Sometimes the world simply isn't "worthy" of either anymore.....
I've read almost every document directly of mormon history as well as almost every book and anti-mormon book and website on mormonism. So, I know well what the actual history is. You however don't. You read some drive-by media reports and think that is the WHOLE TRUTH of the matter. It's not buddy.
From my viewpoint, false BASELESS accusations or lies or ugly comments about anyone is SPAM... because they post it without watching the video... hiding the real discussion...
Are you the one that has made many profiles here on youtube?
Are you mormon?
Shawn is not a guru... That is a BASELESS accusation... So you are in the danger of being blocked
fi you dont believe in the religion why speak shyt bout it..just let people belive wat they believe...screw wat all you guys gotta say get a life......all u guys dew is try to talk shyt at least mormons stay outta jail..and progress in life..i bet theyd rather give them a job instead of you guys.....
Lying For the Lord eh? And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. (Mark 9:9) But what if someone asked them what they had seen?
Scottsdale.I am not really stereotyping, nor judging all Mormons. I still have 1-2 lds friends that do not condemn me for leaving. I realize that so many were born into it and really know nothing but the lds teachings. I am down on the religion, I feel sorry for those caught up in it. I wish they would look beyond what they see. I wish they would realize thats it is so wrong and misleading. I am not a mean/bad person...I just despise that religion.
ScottsdaleStylee--FYI they do indeed teach that you can't have a Pepsi. That is exactly what they taught to me. No caffeine in any form! And FYI, I know they are so bad due to the experiences I had during the 5 or so years I was a member. They proved to me that they care about members only and only those members that walk their line. They put down other religions (heard it myself). And they believe that they are the only "true church".Evil..yes, anyone group that turns homeless/hungry away is!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Gut - hilarious that you blocked me after falsely accusing me of blocking you and laughing about it. I don't block people unless there is good reason. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth.
I have not blocked you, but I had to set videos comments to approval before they appear - because there is a spammer, making so far over 6 profiles and commenting nonsense bigtime... sorry, you where wrong
"Gut - hilarious that you blocked me after falsely accusing me of blocking you and laughing about it. I don't block people unless there is good reason. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."
I have not blocked you, but I had to set videos comments to approval before they appear - because there is a spammer, making so far over 6 profiles and commenting nonsense bigtime... sorry, you where wrong
Wow these people obviously have not read the bible since the rebuttal is practically at the beginning Genesis 12:11-13. Plus Sandra Tanner is a disingenuous source. It is a well documented fact that revelation was deleted from D&C because it was later discovered that it was added in by someone other than Joseph Smith around the time of his death.
The manifesto was never a Revelation. Faced with a continued persecution they were exhausted. It was a proposal adopted by plebecite of the men not imprisoned
The LDS church teaches if u dont go through certain secret rituals or adhere to changing laws about things like what non-alcoholic beverages you consume, or how many earrings u wear at once, or pay them enough, u can be kicked out of what they say is the only church, which u need to be in to be saved. A Christian should live morally but I dont have to check a newsletter, etc. to see if my jewelry, beverages & handshakes are ok with the an organization so I can know if Im "good enough for God".
I am not a fundamentalist Christian - as you may have gathered but I can see some merit in their position. Unlike them, I believe faith without works (material works as well as spiritual) is a pretended faith and that a conversion event is merely the start of the race for the crown and that we must fight the good fight to the end. I have some things in common with mormons but I know that Jesus was God & I pray to him - which places me nearer to them and as far from mormons as I am from muslims.
Hi landrover, I have attempted several times to post the name of a website which says it all but my comments have not been posted, will send you a personal message if I am not blocked.
Carbon dating is actual science and not speculation. When you say science speculates based on "age based projections" but not actual scientific experiments what exactly are you talking about? And your supposed "logic" of your, Bible excels therefore historicity proven, agrument is absurd.
I will not say that LDS doctrine is free of ambiguous elements (it is not), but at least I'll admit it when I see it. It is far less ambiguous however than christian orthodoxy on its most simple levels.
You got us... the Bible excels in its historicity. However, something excelling over another as a logical basis for disproving the lesser of the two when they are wholly different histories to begin with is absurd. They are not mutually exclusive. Your argument proves nothing. It proves only that as far as names-dates-places, the Bible has more, not exclusive, historicity. Scientific advancement would cease based on your logic. (Lack of of proof is the same as disproof? What a joke.)
DNA PROVES that the native Americans have no relationship whatever to the Jews. This is not lack of proof, this is proof. Couple this with linguistics (proof), geography in BoM (proof), Archaeology (proof), etc etc. Proof that Joe was a consummate liar is easily come by even in Deseret publications (until recently - someone is panicking). Ignore proof against, ignore lack of proof for if you wish. But don't ignore the fact that basic 'eternal' teachings of Joe & Brigham have been withdrawn!
Esteban333, all that has been proven so far is that based on TODAY'S makeup of Jewish/Israeli DNA (which has been intermixed) no link has been established between mesoamerican DNA and the current makeup of jewish DNA. It is not known what ancient Israeli DNA looks like. That is a fact as well. For that matter, the Book of Mormon mentions many races & peoples on the american continent prior to Nephi and Lehi. What is most telling is that the LDS church has supported research in related fields.
Supported research? They did more than that, BYU was gagging to get its hands on DNA technology (discovered in a Community College in England), when it did get it things suddenly went very quiet. Can't wait for the Hill to be excavated - as if that has not already happened and guess what??
They were gagging. You're right. They're still gagging for it as DNA/biochemistry/genetic code sciences are still emerging. Finish with your brand of anecdotal evidence (read lack of evidence). You're good at it.
Why not mention the many evidences of the Book of Mormon found in archeology and the recent discoveries on the Arabian Peninsula? Why ignore the many supposed coincidences in archeology that would support the Book of Mormon? And please feel free to ask me what some are.
LDS is built on a lie and the lies must continue because DNA, linguistics, anthropology and archaelogy prove that BoM is not the historical account which Joseph Smith absolutely asserted it to be. In England we can hardly build a road without finding Saxon, Viking or Mediaeval artefacts or bones. LDS is disproved and those who know this and wish to remain in its thrall are dicing with their souls - to reject the known truth is very dangerous no matter how attractive an organisation appears.
Estaban333, the same "science" that supposedly condemns the Book of Mormon would also condemn the historicity of much of the Bible. It has always amused me that "christians" use science to condemn the Book of Mormon but they don't admit that the majority of scientists also reject the Bible based on "science" (especially the chronology of 6,000 years of man since Adam and Eve vs. carbon dating). So "real" christians using "science" against the Book of Mormon seems wholly disingenuous. No?
Please Esteban333, explain to me your double standard. Please explain. What about science vs. the Bible (which for the record I also defend and believe in).
Look at the videos re archaeology in the Holy Land, there is substantial material proof for biblical accounts - there is nil, nada, zilch, nought, nothing to support BoM.
Esteban333, I agree with you on archeology in the holy land. No one (including myself) is saying anything to contradict that. You're missing the point. Science/archeology also has evidence of human life carbon dating back to at least 10,000 to 20,000 years. Carbon dating goes back even further in less reliable instances. Pre-biblical humans contradict the literal translation of Genesis where Adam and Eve are the first man and woman. Is this not a double standard if you wish to use science?
I am prepared to accept scientific evidence relating to the beginning of life and humanity, it exists, it is irrefutable therefore I accept it. I am not a 'literalist'. The mormons refuse to accept that if BoM were an accurate historical account (as Joe Smith definitely and repeatedly asserted), the mormons would have sufficient evidence by now to convince me and everyone else. They have nothing - end of.
Estaban333, you're trying to have it both ways. You don't know that, but you are. Faith by definition is belief without proof. You believe & have faith in God, yet actual "proof" of God is circumstantial. The Bible is a historical record of faith but not empirical proof of God's existence. Literalist or not is hardly the question. Accepting one faith based on "science" and rejecting another based on "science" is the question. Science has both literal & empirical conflicts with the Bible.
Where to begin. Esteban333, it takes me some time but I thrive on debating know-it-alls like you. Give me a day or two (I'm a busy businessman--really) and I'll delve into your supposed "proof" against mormon belief on the various levels you espouse.
I don't "know it all" by any means, I merely know that the BoM is untrue and the thought that those good zealous boys and girls who come to my door are wasting their time and their considerable sacrifice really bugs me. I'll defer to the experts on almost anything else. Take a look at the videos by ex-mormons on YouTube especially the scientist ex-mormons. I am a busy businessman too, landrover, but thanks for mentioning it (relevant??)
You're welcome. As for relevant? Yes, to me. And watching videos by ex-mormons is on my top ten lists of time waisting addictions. I do it all the time unfortunately. Please give me a book, video or whatever on anti-LDS doctrine or belief that I haven't been exposed to and I'll gladly give it serious consideration (if not read it in its entirety).
Deferring to the experts is subjective. Any intellectually honest person ultimately conceeds that to some degree.
How many women that were already married to other men did Jacob marry? Hmmm? Zero. Horny Joe: 10. Secretly "marrying" other men's wives is what the rest of the world calls this adultery. Horny Joe referred to regular polygamy as adultery, several times in sermons and even in the D&C.
This video should be renamed "One-sided arguments for the Lord" and subtitled "Counterpoints not welcome... And please don't use the Bible to contradict us."
POSTER BEWARE: The moderator of these videos DELETES your opposing comments when they actually pose a credible counter to these very slack-scholarship anti-LDS videos and comments.
So much for the evangelical challenge to "prove the contrary with references." I have endeavored to point by point post Biblical chapter & verse counters to these videos and comments only to have the Bible references removed.
The moderator was a least nice and honest enough to admit this and apologize.
Hey testskriftene, you are good guy in my book. You've always been considerate and often good humored. Thus, the deletions surprised me. Thanks for at least addressing it.
You evangelicals, just keep plugging away with your half-baked criticisms on mormon doctrine and eventually I'll get fed up enough to repost scriptural/doctrinal responses from the LDS perspective (the official/actual LDS perspective).
I've learned that evangelicals have NO INTEREST in what mormons actually believe.
Furthermore, how is polygamy "alive and well" in the LDS church if members are excommunicated for practicing it? And God did biblically condone polygamy just as He biblically condoned eradicating nations. (Reread the Old Testament if you must.) I don't get the killing in the name of God just like I don't quite get polygamy. However, I still believe in the Bible. Explain the apparent genocide in the Bible? Please! (Unlike you MistyAnn, I'll give pg/verse from the Bible. I CAN back up my claims.)
No, the LDS church claims it doesn't practice polygamy currently. We don't. If an LDS man today marries more than 1 woman he will be excommunicated. That's NOT PRACTICING polygamy today! Wouldn't you agree? Again, if you're LDS and you currently have two or more living wives you'll be excommunicated! Period. That's not actively practicing polygamy. Also, NO CHURCH LEADER EVER said you HAD to practice polygamy to go to heaven. Please prove your point by naming book and page of your bogus claim.
MistyAnn the difference between FLDS and LDS goes much further than the present day practice of polygamy. LDS (not FLDS) don't shy away from the history of polygamy in the church. And yes, if a spouse (woman) dies the man (only) can be married again to another woman thereby being sealed to more than one woman in the hereafter. So who's lying? Polygamy has been practiced in biblical times prior to early LDS church practice of it. How do you explain Abraham (a prophet) having more than 1 wife?
How do you explain that Abraham was not commanded by the Lord.. and Joseph said he was .... Joseph said that God wanted him to sin.. that is not the God of the Bible my friend... But anyway.. If the LDS church is not true - would you want to know?
"testskriftene" I like you my friend. Haven't conversed with you in a while. Since you asked, here are some Bible versus that support God commanding and/or condoning plural marriage in certain instances. Genesis 16: 1-11; Genesis 29: 1-28; Genesis 30: 4, 9; I can go on... there are many. Abraham was considered not only as righteous but as the father of Israel while practicing polygamy. Jacob and David (while still called and annoited of God as king) were also both righteous & practiced polygamy.
But did God command it? Jesus re-established the marriage as it was supposed to be, since it was perverted, from the garden of Eden.... Good to see that you are back :-)
I posted a few weeks ago what I thought was a reasonable response to the shameful misrepresentations in this video. Somehow those responses are not here now. "Heart of the Matter" should leave all posts (so long as they don't use foul or abusive language) if they are to truly be intellectually honest.
Shawn implies BOTH ARE LDS, so who is misleading here? And BOTH of these women say they came from polygamy! They could NOT be LDS!!! FLDS maybe, which is not recognized by the mormon church and has no affiliation with the LDS church. Get your facts straight. In Shawn's own words "amazing, amazing." No kidding! It is amazing! The lie is in the credibility of this video.
Really? One was LDS? Which, the one in the "Kingston" group or the other one? The joke here is that you are wrong and you don't know it. Shawn and his lady friends may mean well but there is NO DOUBT, all three are flat out implying that the two women were polygamists and that they were also mormon. That makes them either 100+ years old (which is possible) or liars. "Amazing, amazing."
Sandra Tanner runs Utah Lighthouse Ministry. I know well who she is. The spin is coming from Shawn McCraney and these women. Where do they say anywhere here that the "Kingston" group is NOT LDS??? That is "amazing" amazing spin from your part. NOT LDS!!! Sandra Tanner WAS LDS and knows that the other woman never was LDS (as does Shawn). However, they speak as former mormons and former members of the so-called polygamous LDS church. Where is the spin in what I'm saying?
I´v always maintained one LDS, and one FLDS (or mayby kingston group). But LDS is the biggets of the churchgroups that sort of follow Joseph Smith, thats why they talk about LDS.. and people of the LDS church can practice spiritual polygamy, check out "hinckley on polygamy"... (with heart of the matter)
Dude, stop telling everyone what mormons supposedly believe. Generally speaking, mormons know what their LDS doctrine is. (Contrary to all the bull saying that the average mormon doesn't even know what their own church teaches.) Anyway, you may have maintained one LDS, one FLDS, but what's important is that the people in the video don't MAINTAIN ANYTHING! Therefore implying they were both LDS and polygamous by association.
They talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints... talk about LDS leaders. Have you been born again? If you die tonight, would you live woth God?
All I ahve to do is what I can the Lord makes up teh rest. After all we can do we are saved by grace. Not because we deserve it but because the lord loves us and we accept his sacrifice. The other stuff just helps us be closer to him but nothing beats grace.
To be in the number of those counted worthy to give praise to my Lord day and night, is my desire. Worthy is the Almighty One, who was and is and is to come! No concerns for family members or wives. God has everything in control so there's no need for anyone else to become a "god". I don't want anyone to worship me, as I am only a pile of dust; a vapor who is only here for a moment. I, like many other Christians want all to know the truth, which will set you free!! In Christ's love.....
Called2Worship 3 months ago
In the definition of Christianity is to have one god that's part of the defintion but to think you can become a god is not Christianity that is polytheism
bobbyraejohnson 10 months ago
Shawn, arquing with ignorant people like you is worthless; i rather fight w/a beast then you and all these ignorant, mentally retarded,stupid&dum people who talked bad about this church; all of you don't know enough about the mysterious of the Kingdom, just running your mouths and not take the time to study this church; come on, you all need to be educated; so, you can out of your ignorance; i challange you w/a simple question,how long is eternal?&what's wrong w/plural marriage in the eternity?
CWMaua12 1 year ago
@CWMaua12 .. better to ask what's wrong with plural Gods.... The Bible (GOD) states there is only ONE GOD. don't you think it's about time mormons actually did their own personal research into the matter? As for plural marriage in Heaven.. The bible states that there is no marriage in Heaven. Another good example of Why mormon teaching isn't christian. Many mysteries.. correct.. but we do have these answers in the bible - read them!
54v115 10 months ago
@54v115 I can see that you are one of those people like Shawn Mccraney, rebellious against the true church (The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S., Why dont u ask yourself this qs. The Bible is the Word of God the Father and Goddess the Mother, as far as it is translated correctly. The Book of Mormon is also the Word of God the Father and Goddess the Mother. Your totally lost.
CWMaua12 10 months ago
@54v115 Theres too many important info thats missing in the Holy Bible, the translation of some scriptures are a problem too, think about this, how many times the evil ones in the past kept trying to destroy the Holy Bible, u need to pray hard about these things, ask yourself this qs. we werent created by an image of a tree or any of Gods creation, all men were created by the image of our God Father and all women were created by the image of our Goddess Mother.
CWMaua12 10 months ago
@54v115 So, since we were created by the images of our Heavenly Parents, we can become as Gods and Goddess. Your not smart enough u still ignorant about these mysteries, and its very obvious, hope im educating u and u have to understand these truths or maybe im giving u too much info that you might be confused or still remain in the state of ignorance. Too many mysterious that lots of people dont know about the eternities, The Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S. is the only true Gospel.
CWMaua12 10 months ago
@CWMaua12 - Images of our Heavenly parents.. What sort of twit are you? Gods and Godesses MEANS polytheism moron. The BIBLE tells us.. in the words of JESUS.. ONLY ONE GOD ETERNAL. ONE period! You think you're smart..lol...you can't grasp that one simple Holy Statement.. so put away your mormon constructs little boy and get someone who knows .. more than you.. wanker!
54v115 10 months ago
I am not a Christian but religious people know better about becoming gods in the afterlife. It's called blasphemy, and that's a sin.
rubym357 2 years ago
Polygamy is not permitted in the Christian religion. 1 Corinthians 7:2 :... Let each man have his own wife (singular) and let every woman have her own husband. ...
Polygamy has a negative effect on women and children, well documented in the medical literature.
himmis4all 2 years ago 4
The gothic women tend to have alot of the same tastes as me, however there ARE gothic Mormon chicks but its the parents I have to deal with when it comes to them, close-minded as hell. They tend to look down upon any Mormon who happens to enjoy metal and horror films, and in my case runs a horror movie review youtube channel, lolz. I'm not in Utah anymore though, but the Nevada town I live in is filled with open-minded Mormons... we go drinking... and yes we drink coke, jack and coke lolz
squeeobite 2 years ago
Yeah, I see them in the store alot... they buy ALOT of green jello and they look like cast members from Little House on the Prairie. And polygamy is not in the past, that why I plan to get married once, I don't want to deal with like 7 wives in the afterlife, I can barely deal with relationships as it is. Thats why, as an open-minded Mormon I don't date Mormon chicks, I like the goth rocker type ya know what I mean?
squeeobite 2 years ago
Whoop-de-fucking-do!
squeeobite 2 years ago
Ok that may be true but for those who dont believe in the church also dont believe that a sealing is for eternity. Therefore in their minds it would not be polygamy. To say that it is polygamy would be the same as saying you believe that sealings are eternal.
mjolnir18889 2 years ago
They may not have intended to but they did. Look at our articles of faith. And while a man may bne able to be sealed to mare than one it is usually only when one of the two dies that they are sealed again. In the case of divorce the sealing is usually also broken. I have personally seen it with my grandfather
mjolnir18889 2 years ago
If your wife asks you if she looks fat in jeans...It is OK to lie. I think that is in the bible some where.
999Atwood 2 years ago
Jesus is THE only way! Unless you are born again then you cannot see the kingdom of God
rhyfelwrDuw 2 years ago
Hi. I have a question. I am a recent convert. Is there a specific time that the church changed drastically in it's early years? Specifically, the Book of Abraham, the temple rites and such. Did these occur at the same time? I am trying to figure if Mormonism got "hijacked" at all on it's way. Thanks - Jim
thatjimguy 3 years ago
mormonism has changed alot - check out my vids -
Have you been born again? If you die tonight, would you live with God?
God bless you
testskriftene 3 years ago
@thatjimguy Mormonism was never Christian, and it directly contradicts the Book of Galatians, chapter one. Please read it right now. Joseph Smith claims to have brought another Gospel, Paul specifically warns against that in Galatians 1!!
usmc7242 11 months ago
@thatjimguy - the book of abraham is a Jo Smith consruct based upon egyptian papyri bought from a travelling salesman... Most major and serious Academics do not agree with smiths interpretation of the hieroglyphics contained on the papyri.. Mormonism is Joseph Smiths plagiarised ridden story.. invented at the same time as many other cults of the time and area. Go to the Bible and see Chriatian doctrine, mormonism isn't christian...
54v115 10 months ago
Im not a mormon, but I understand where you are coming from. I grew up as Jehovahs Witness, the two groups are fairly close, as their past is simular, both have masonic backgrounds. JW also teach that it is alright to lie, as they redfine its meaning, you only lie if you do not tell the truth to those that are not priveleged to know it. This is wrong.
Jesus Christ is the only Way to salvation, in Him we have Life. He is our Creator and not a created being. This was truly liberating for me.
Mekelsior 3 years ago 8
@Mekelsior But witnesses, as far as I know, did not preach racism as a core doctrine of the bible
dmcarden 6 months ago
The people in this video ARE THEMSELVES "lying for the Lord". Plural marriage in Joseph's time were RELIGIOUS SEALINGS, not actual temporal marriages.
Thus, you all are liars!
leeuniverse 3 years ago
Then why did the LDS church fall for the pressure the society put on them? Can you be sealed to many wives now? Could you before 1890? Hmmm...
testskriftene 3 years ago
No you cannot have plural wives now. Before 1890 yes you could. Now ask youself this was it illegal when the church practiced it? Did other people outside of the LDS church say maybe in the bible do it?
mjolnir18889 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
watch my newest video
testskriftene 3 years ago
Moving the goalpost.... First, the discussion was about Joseph Smith, not 40 years later. But, in answer to your question, there are only two things that have ever "changed" (given and taken away) at different times in scriptural history, and that is Plural Marriage/Polygamy and the Priesthood of God.
Thus, that is the answer to your question.... Sometimes the world simply isn't "worthy" of either anymore.....
leeuniverse 2 years ago
Read "In sacred loneliness"...
testskriftene 3 years ago
I've read almost every document directly of mormon history as well as almost every book and anti-mormon book and website on mormonism. So, I know well what the actual history is. You however don't. You read some drive-by media reports and think that is the WHOLE TRUTH of the matter. It's not buddy.
leeuniverse 2 years ago
RELIGIOUS SEALINGS?? oh yes...Joseph smith made his CULT because he liked sex, money, power and he loved to lie..plain and simple..
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago 6
@leeuniverse read D&C 132
fudley2003 1 year ago
From my viewpoint, false BASELESS accusations or lies or ugly comments about anyone is SPAM... because they post it without watching the video... hiding the real discussion...
Are you the one that has made many profiles here on youtube?
Are you mormon?
Shawn is not a guru... That is a BASELESS accusation... So you are in the danger of being blocked
testskriftene 3 years ago
fi you dont believe in the religion why speak shyt bout it..just let people belive wat they believe...screw wat all you guys gotta say get a life......all u guys dew is try to talk shyt at least mormons stay outta jail..and progress in life..i bet theyd rather give them a job instead of you guys.....
thebordguy 3 years ago
Lying For the Lord eh? And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. (Mark 9:9) But what if someone asked them what they had seen?
SonOfAdam777 3 years ago
They take a vow of silence.
FAITHandLOGIC 3 years ago
Its funny that they USED to OK polygamy and now they are ashamed of it and deny deny deny that it was ever a major part of their religion.
DarkPrincess702 3 years ago 4
Scottsdale.I am not really stereotyping, nor judging all Mormons. I still have 1-2 lds friends that do not condemn me for leaving. I realize that so many were born into it and really know nothing but the lds teachings. I am down on the religion, I feel sorry for those caught up in it. I wish they would look beyond what they see. I wish they would realize thats it is so wrong and misleading. I am not a mean/bad person...I just despise that religion.
TrueMantika 3 years ago
Scottsdale...it not a "member" but members as well as the Bishops and, not only in one church but 3..I am judging by my experience with all of them.
TrueMantika 3 years ago
ScottsdaleStylee--FYI they do indeed teach that you can't have a Pepsi. That is exactly what they taught to me. No caffeine in any form! And FYI, I know they are so bad due to the experiences I had during the 5 or so years I was a member. They proved to me that they care about members only and only those members that walk their line. They put down other religions (heard it myself). And they believe that they are the only "true church".Evil..yes, anyone group that turns homeless/hungry away is!
TrueMantika 3 years ago
D&C explains how you can become gods... 132 - that also explains how polygamy is important...
testskriftene 3 years ago
naa the word of God wouldnt need explanation of another man, you books say man can progress to become gods
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
and now you start lying thats depressing, i actually read your books you cant cover your prophets joe smiths words with lies
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Gut - hilarious that you blocked me after falsely accusing me of blocking you and laughing about it. I don't block people unless there is good reason. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth.
ChristopherMillz 3 years ago
I have not blocked you, but I had to set videos comments to approval before they appear - because there is a spammer, making so far over 6 profiles and commenting nonsense bigtime... sorry, you where wrong
testskriftene 3 years ago
"ChristopherMillz"
"Gut - hilarious that you blocked me after falsely accusing me of blocking you and laughing about it. I don't block people unless there is good reason. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."
I have not blocked you, but I had to set videos comments to approval before they appear - because there is a spammer, making so far over 6 profiles and commenting nonsense bigtime... sorry, you where wrong
testskriftene 3 years ago
why dont mormons talk about having their own planet and stuff thats much more telling than tricking pp into it with christs name
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
The Mormon Church is disgusting and evil..my God never told me I couldn't have a Pepsi.
TrueMantika 3 years ago
Wow these people obviously have not read the bible since the rebuttal is practically at the beginning Genesis 12:11-13. Plus Sandra Tanner is a disingenuous source. It is a well documented fact that revelation was deleted from D&C because it was later discovered that it was added in by someone other than Joseph Smith around the time of his death.
recordstraightener 3 years ago
The manifesto was never a Revelation. Faced with a continued persecution they were exhausted. It was a proposal adopted by plebecite of the men not imprisoned
or in hiding.
DadsBlueAngel 3 years ago
The LDS church teaches if u dont go through certain secret rituals or adhere to changing laws about things like what non-alcoholic beverages you consume, or how many earrings u wear at once, or pay them enough, u can be kicked out of what they say is the only church, which u need to be in to be saved. A Christian should live morally but I dont have to check a newsletter, etc. to see if my jewelry, beverages & handshakes are ok with the an organization so I can know if Im "good enough for God".
EmBeesWeb 3 years ago
I am not a fundamentalist Christian - as you may have gathered but I can see some merit in their position. Unlike them, I believe faith without works (material works as well as spiritual) is a pretended faith and that a conversion event is merely the start of the race for the crown and that we must fight the good fight to the end. I have some things in common with mormons but I know that Jesus was God & I pray to him - which places me nearer to them and as far from mormons as I am from muslims.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Nice tan, must focus on the world. So much for living in the world, but not of the world.
Hey check out Benny Hinn TBN preacher
riversideharp 3 years ago
James 2:20 - I agree absolutely. "And the greatest of these is love"! So true
Estaban333 3 years ago
Hi landrover, I have attempted several times to post the name of a website which says it all but my comments have not been posted, will send you a personal message if I am not blocked.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Carbon dating is actual science and not speculation. When you say science speculates based on "age based projections" but not actual scientific experiments what exactly are you talking about? And your supposed "logic" of your, Bible excels therefore historicity proven, agrument is absurd.
I will not say that LDS doctrine is free of ambiguous elements (it is not), but at least I'll admit it when I see it. It is far less ambiguous however than christian orthodoxy on its most simple levels.
landrover1515 3 years ago
You got us... the Bible excels in its historicity. However, something excelling over another as a logical basis for disproving the lesser of the two when they are wholly different histories to begin with is absurd. They are not mutually exclusive. Your argument proves nothing. It proves only that as far as names-dates-places, the Bible has more, not exclusive, historicity. Scientific advancement would cease based on your logic. (Lack of of proof is the same as disproof? What a joke.)
landrover1515 3 years ago
DNA PROVES that the native Americans have no relationship whatever to the Jews. This is not lack of proof, this is proof. Couple this with linguistics (proof), geography in BoM (proof), Archaeology (proof), etc etc. Proof that Joe was a consummate liar is easily come by even in Deseret publications (until recently - someone is panicking). Ignore proof against, ignore lack of proof for if you wish. But don't ignore the fact that basic 'eternal' teachings of Joe & Brigham have been withdrawn!
Estaban333 3 years ago
Esteban333, all that has been proven so far is that based on TODAY'S makeup of Jewish/Israeli DNA (which has been intermixed) no link has been established between mesoamerican DNA and the current makeup of jewish DNA. It is not known what ancient Israeli DNA looks like. That is a fact as well. For that matter, the Book of Mormon mentions many races & peoples on the american continent prior to Nephi and Lehi. What is most telling is that the LDS church has supported research in related fields.
landrover1515 3 years ago
Supported research? They did more than that, BYU was gagging to get its hands on DNA technology (discovered in a Community College in England), when it did get it things suddenly went very quiet. Can't wait for the Hill to be excavated - as if that has not already happened and guess what??
Estaban333 3 years ago
They were gagging. You're right. They're still gagging for it as DNA/biochemistry/genetic code sciences are still emerging. Finish with your brand of anecdotal evidence (read lack of evidence). You're good at it.
Why not mention the many evidences of the Book of Mormon found in archeology and the recent discoveries on the Arabian Peninsula? Why ignore the many supposed coincidences in archeology that would support the Book of Mormon? And please feel free to ask me what some are.
landrover1515 3 years ago
LDS is built on a lie and the lies must continue because DNA, linguistics, anthropology and archaelogy prove that BoM is not the historical account which Joseph Smith absolutely asserted it to be. In England we can hardly build a road without finding Saxon, Viking or Mediaeval artefacts or bones. LDS is disproved and those who know this and wish to remain in its thrall are dicing with their souls - to reject the known truth is very dangerous no matter how attractive an organisation appears.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Estaban333, the same "science" that supposedly condemns the Book of Mormon would also condemn the historicity of much of the Bible. It has always amused me that "christians" use science to condemn the Book of Mormon but they don't admit that the majority of scientists also reject the Bible based on "science" (especially the chronology of 6,000 years of man since Adam and Eve vs. carbon dating). So "real" christians using "science" against the Book of Mormon seems wholly disingenuous. No?
landrover1515 3 years ago
Please Esteban333, explain to me your double standard. Please explain. What about science vs. the Bible (which for the record I also defend and believe in).
landrover1515 3 years ago
Look at the videos re archaeology in the Holy Land, there is substantial material proof for biblical accounts - there is nil, nada, zilch, nought, nothing to support BoM.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Esteban333, I agree with you on archeology in the holy land. No one (including myself) is saying anything to contradict that. You're missing the point. Science/archeology also has evidence of human life carbon dating back to at least 10,000 to 20,000 years. Carbon dating goes back even further in less reliable instances. Pre-biblical humans contradict the literal translation of Genesis where Adam and Eve are the first man and woman. Is this not a double standard if you wish to use science?
landrover1515 3 years ago
I am prepared to accept scientific evidence relating to the beginning of life and humanity, it exists, it is irrefutable therefore I accept it. I am not a 'literalist'. The mormons refuse to accept that if BoM were an accurate historical account (as Joe Smith definitely and repeatedly asserted), the mormons would have sufficient evidence by now to convince me and everyone else. They have nothing - end of.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Estaban333, you're trying to have it both ways. You don't know that, but you are. Faith by definition is belief without proof. You believe & have faith in God, yet actual "proof" of God is circumstantial. The Bible is a historical record of faith but not empirical proof of God's existence. Literalist or not is hardly the question. Accepting one faith based on "science" and rejecting another based on "science" is the question. Science has both literal & empirical conflicts with the Bible.
landrover1515 3 years ago
Where to begin. Esteban333, it takes me some time but I thrive on debating know-it-alls like you. Give me a day or two (I'm a busy businessman--really) and I'll delve into your supposed "proof" against mormon belief on the various levels you espouse.
landrover1515 3 years ago
I don't "know it all" by any means, I merely know that the BoM is untrue and the thought that those good zealous boys and girls who come to my door are wasting their time and their considerable sacrifice really bugs me. I'll defer to the experts on almost anything else. Take a look at the videos by ex-mormons on YouTube especially the scientist ex-mormons. I am a busy businessman too, landrover, but thanks for mentioning it (relevant??)
Estaban333 3 years ago
You're welcome. As for relevant? Yes, to me. And watching videos by ex-mormons is on my top ten lists of time waisting addictions. I do it all the time unfortunately. Please give me a book, video or whatever on anti-LDS doctrine or belief that I haven't been exposed to and I'll gladly give it serious consideration (if not read it in its entirety).
Deferring to the experts is subjective. Any intellectually honest person ultimately conceeds that to some degree.
landrover1515 3 years ago
If Horny Joe was given these dozens of wives from GOD, then why did he feel the need to lie about it, throughout his life?
fubecabr 3 years ago
How many women that were already married to other men did Jacob marry? Hmmm? Zero. Horny Joe: 10. Secretly "marrying" other men's wives is what the rest of the world calls this adultery. Horny Joe referred to regular polygamy as adultery, several times in sermons and even in the D&C.
fubecabr 3 years ago
This video should be renamed "One-sided arguments for the Lord" and subtitled "Counterpoints not welcome... And please don't use the Bible to contradict us."
landrover1515 3 years ago
POSTER BEWARE: The moderator of these videos DELETES your opposing comments when they actually pose a credible counter to these very slack-scholarship anti-LDS videos and comments.
So much for the evangelical challenge to "prove the contrary with references." I have endeavored to point by point post Biblical chapter & verse counters to these videos and comments only to have the Bible references removed.
The moderator was a least nice and honest enough to admit this and apologize.
landrover1515 3 years ago
sorry - was a mistake.. please repost
testskriftene 3 years ago
Hey testskriftene, you are good guy in my book. You've always been considerate and often good humored. Thus, the deletions surprised me. Thanks for at least addressing it.
You evangelicals, just keep plugging away with your half-baked criticisms on mormon doctrine and eventually I'll get fed up enough to repost scriptural/doctrinal responses from the LDS perspective (the official/actual LDS perspective).
I've learned that evangelicals have NO INTEREST in what mormons actually believe.
landrover1515 3 years ago
Furthermore, how is polygamy "alive and well" in the LDS church if members are excommunicated for practicing it? And God did biblically condone polygamy just as He biblically condoned eradicating nations. (Reread the Old Testament if you must.) I don't get the killing in the name of God just like I don't quite get polygamy. However, I still believe in the Bible. Explain the apparent genocide in the Bible? Please! (Unlike you MistyAnn, I'll give pg/verse from the Bible. I CAN back up my claims.)
landrover1515 3 years ago
No, the LDS church claims it doesn't practice polygamy currently. We don't. If an LDS man today marries more than 1 woman he will be excommunicated. That's NOT PRACTICING polygamy today! Wouldn't you agree? Again, if you're LDS and you currently have two or more living wives you'll be excommunicated! Period. That's not actively practicing polygamy. Also, NO CHURCH LEADER EVER said you HAD to practice polygamy to go to heaven. Please prove your point by naming book and page of your bogus claim.
landrover1515 3 years ago
MistyAnn the difference between FLDS and LDS goes much further than the present day practice of polygamy. LDS (not FLDS) don't shy away from the history of polygamy in the church. And yes, if a spouse (woman) dies the man (only) can be married again to another woman thereby being sealed to more than one woman in the hereafter. So who's lying? Polygamy has been practiced in biblical times prior to early LDS church practice of it. How do you explain Abraham (a prophet) having more than 1 wife?
landrover1515 3 years ago
How do you explain that Abraham was not commanded by the Lord.. and Joseph said he was .... Joseph said that God wanted him to sin.. that is not the God of the Bible my friend... But anyway.. If the LDS church is not true - would you want to know?
testskriftene 3 years ago
"testskriftene" I like you my friend. Haven't conversed with you in a while. Since you asked, here are some Bible versus that support God commanding and/or condoning plural marriage in certain instances. Genesis 16: 1-11; Genesis 29: 1-28; Genesis 30: 4, 9; I can go on... there are many. Abraham was considered not only as righteous but as the father of Israel while practicing polygamy. Jacob and David (while still called and annoited of God as king) were also both righteous & practiced polygamy.
landrover1515 3 years ago
But did God command it? Jesus re-established the marriage as it was supposed to be, since it was perverted, from the garden of Eden.... Good to see that you are back :-)
testskriftene 3 years ago
Really? Making a whole new profile (again?) just for this?
testskriftene 4 years ago
Good job Doris!!!!! I can't wait to see you again. ;-)
Love you
Steph
tundramom 4 years ago
I posted a few weeks ago what I thought was a reasonable response to the shameful misrepresentations in this video. Somehow those responses are not here now. "Heart of the Matter" should leave all posts (so long as they don't use foul or abusive language) if they are to truly be intellectually honest.
landrover1515 4 years ago
Sorry, you posted a lie I guess for a long time ago... You said that they had nothing to do with mormonism? One were LDS one was FLDS
testskriftene 4 years ago
Shawn implies BOTH ARE LDS, so who is misleading here? And BOTH of these women say they came from polygamy! They could NOT be LDS!!! FLDS maybe, which is not recognized by the mormon church and has no affiliation with the LDS church. Get your facts straight. In Shawn's own words "amazing, amazing." No kidding! It is amazing! The lie is in the credibility of this video.
landrover1515 4 years ago
Not that both are LDS, one WAS LDS, one WAS FLDS.. People in LDS church can practice spiritual polygamy.. Watch hinckley on polygamy
testskriftene 4 years ago
Really? One was LDS? Which, the one in the "Kingston" group or the other one? The joke here is that you are wrong and you don't know it. Shawn and his lady friends may mean well but there is NO DOUBT, all three are flat out implying that the two women were polygamists and that they were also mormon. That makes them either 100+ years old (which is possible) or liars. "Amazing, amazing."
landrover1515 4 years ago
One of the ladies is Sandra Tanner.. she was LDS, raised LDS... Why do you do this kind of spin?
testskriftene 4 years ago
Sandra Tanner runs Utah Lighthouse Ministry. I know well who she is. The spin is coming from Shawn McCraney and these women. Where do they say anywhere here that the "Kingston" group is NOT LDS??? That is "amazing" amazing spin from your part. NOT LDS!!! Sandra Tanner WAS LDS and knows that the other woman never was LDS (as does Shawn). However, they speak as former mormons and former members of the so-called polygamous LDS church. Where is the spin in what I'm saying?
landrover1515 4 years ago
I´v always maintained one LDS, and one FLDS (or mayby kingston group). But LDS is the biggets of the churchgroups that sort of follow Joseph Smith, thats why they talk about LDS.. and people of the LDS church can practice spiritual polygamy, check out "hinckley on polygamy"... (with heart of the matter)
testskriftene 4 years ago
Dude, stop telling everyone what mormons supposedly believe. Generally speaking, mormons know what their LDS doctrine is. (Contrary to all the bull saying that the average mormon doesn't even know what their own church teaches.) Anyway, you may have maintained one LDS, one FLDS, but what's important is that the people in the video don't MAINTAIN ANYTHING! Therefore implying they were both LDS and polygamous by association.
landrover1515 4 years ago
No, they're not cult members. Is this supposed to be an ad homonem attack?
fubecabr 4 years ago
Have you been born again? If you die tonight, would you live with God? (they have been mormons... one of them LDS). Quotes are from LDS leaders...
testskriftene 4 years ago
These woman cant be LDS. Everything they are describing in their experience is by NonLDS splinter groups. You guys are wolves in sheep clothing.
myeyepie 4 years ago
They talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints... talk about LDS leaders. Have you been born again? If you die tonight, would you live woth God?
testskriftene 4 years ago
Absolutely without a doubt.
myeyepie 4 years ago
Have you done enough? Married in the temple? Have you done everything you can do?
testskriftene 4 years ago
All I ahve to do is what I can the Lord makes up teh rest. After all we can do we are saved by grace. Not because we deserve it but because the lord loves us and we accept his sacrifice. The other stuff just helps us be closer to him but nothing beats grace.
myeyepie 4 years ago
Have you done ALL you CAN DO?
testskriftene 4 years ago