Porn, exploitation and slavery oh my!

[PassionForPasta]

Too much attention has been given to female pornstars and not male porn stars. Recently I was made to watch Cougars in Heat, and how these older women were exploiting younger naive men. It brought tears to my eyes to see these elder women exploit men like this! Isn't it obvious that men are being objectified by women in such a manner? WE MUST STOP THIS!

[Aetoms]

Well, to answer your question at the beginning of the video, good.

[AdderallApocalypse]

hey, Sarahon. Good video. You make good points. But I'd like to explain this for you all... lol. You rightly point out that "norm" is just an observation. However, it's a completely meaningless and irrelevant observation. Too many people (on either end) confuse observation with judgment, anyway. So it's hard to see a motivation for pointing out something irrelevant (other than judgment). Haven't you seen the "Eye of the Beholder" episode of The Twilight Zone? did any of this make sense?

[TheInfernalSpark]

@AdderallApocalypse, I'm not sure about the Twilight Zone reference, but even that makes you a little awesome. Anyway, I can see where you're coming from, I mean yes the norm is, in some senses however we perceive it. But overall normality in society can refer to any number of regular behaviors, actions, beliefs, and biases. Ie: The norm is that rape is wrong. But unfortunately saying: All people are created equal is constantly contested by a lot of people... If that makes sense :P

[OdeToNecrophilia]

Some say it's exploitation because that one woman who is being gangbanged by 50 men is a representation of all women.

Just to give you an idea on why people call it expl.

[SnerdWilliams]

You know you want a Marlboro red 100 wrapped in asbestos and glass shards... Actually... I wouldn't mind a pack of those myself...

I found Tootsie Pops to be a good way to quit, but I ended up eating them after smoking as opposed to instead of smoking.

I'm going to force you to make a porno. You and an Islamic woman will show your chins together.

[elsielsis]

Sarahon is god

[mobiltec]

Quit smoking 6 years ago now. Love being smoke free. I don't miss it one bit.

Porn has been around since man could draw on rocks with coal. That's a fact.

[TheAist]

thats great u quit smoking! i did too. last april. i did the lollipop thing, it'll start rotting your teeth & sugaring u out. try SNUS. its still tobacco product, but its different, from sweden. made differently. less cancer rates, & u can swallow it, u dont have to spit. its a whole new thing.

anyway, i like it better than candy. and i dont miss smoking 1 bit.

u dont like gangbang porn? whatza matter wit u!

[turnxitxaround]

how do you sorta kinda watch someones videos?

oh wait nevermind, thats what i'm doing right now.

1:05 in before turned off.

[Sarahon06]

No ! come back! *panic*

[MensRifleAssociation]

great video.

[Relativisticism]

dont forget that when something is made illegal it gives more incentive to those who want to make money at it.

[kevinbenko]

These people that claim that pornography and prostitution is exploitation seem to be sneaking in the unstated assumption that the only thing women are good for is [boinking].

If this is the case, then the "exploitation" people are probably misogynists.

[Elaina43]

Fuck the norm.

I was just trying to say something provocative, but now that I think about it I'll say it again: fuck the norm.

Great vid, Sarahon!

[SeventhCycle]

Being forced to do pornography is a misnomer for rape. It's the same way being forced to perform sex is rape. It doesn't make sex "bad" and it doesn't make pornography "bad".

Plus, violent pornography has consent. Pornography is not just a business, it's an industry. It's a REGULATED. I know this first hand.

[yeahwotevaman]

Amhemsley is a marxist so he would describe all wage labour as exploitation. I don't see anything wrong with calling a system of gross economic power disparities inherantly exploitive so I would be on his side there. I do however depart company with amhemsley and nuclearnight when they make a special case for prostitution and porn. There are much harder ways of earning $1600 than being filmed having sex.

[Pkfreak001]

i was not aware asexuality existed

[HeavyTrafficAhead]

I think the glaring irony here is that many anti-porn feminists are playing into the 'Women are such fragile creatures that they must be protected from themselves" stereotype that comes straight out of the Victorian Era. To further the irony the implication is that porn should be made illegal, therefore taking away the right of women to engage in lawful commerce and express themselves as they see fit.

[ImmortalUniverse]

well there are a lot of girls being trivked at young age by loverboys .

first the loverboy makes the girl fall in love with him .

and then later he wants her to do grazy stuff .

like go in to prostitution ,

its a pretty common story ,

and the girls cant say no to adult men that force them .

its a real problem in asia and other countries aswell.

[Chrisnoscrub047]

how the fuck are you guys

[TheZeaf]

exellant vid! completely agree!

[TheAtheistSwede]

I think a lot of these "pious fingers" are being waggled simply because they don't *like* the porn they're seeing. Not because there's something inherently wrong with it. But you can't throw unsubstantiated opinions around in a debate so they wrap it in "exploitation" and so on.

[Domzdream]

Yup. People in pain doesn't do it much for me. And for people that subscribe to this fantasy, unfortunately, does say something about them and what sort of level of sex they'd want from their partners.

For me sex HAS to be fun and enjoyable rather than getting pleasure from a woman in tears pleading me to stop.

Not for me.

[prodigyat9]

My father was "forced" to work three jobs when I was young because he wanted to support his 4 kids properly. One of those jobs was pretty menial. They should outlaw all jobs that people are economically forced to do in this way?

[daedamot]

Well I was the guy you were referring to in Stickam the other night. You make a good point and I begrudgingly agree with you that amhemsley's asexuality is not relevant to his position on porn.

He does however attack people who disagree with him on porn rather viciously, calling them rapists, pedophiles, and torturers. I think when someone is THAT insensitive to the point you are making it's easy to think he is being callous because he doesn't understand what it is like to have a sex drive.

[AlienFreak69]

i just came on youtube after i watched some porn and i saw this video. hahahaha

[ThePunkReturns]

You don't want 60 guys to come on you? I thought everyone had that desire. Guess not. 5 stars

[cubanoafuego]

anyway i would have to disagree. the market does indeed exploit, or at least the majority does. we need to make a decision based on what is true for most. we could advocate plenty of markets which are currently illegal for good reasons, just because they wouldnt hurt *everyone* involved. the point is that overall they are damaging. and like i said, my concern is largely the fact that people avoid discussing this issue properly, when it is obviously serious. they treat it like a fuckin joke.

[FractalHelix777]

@cubanoafuego: can you substantiate your claim that the pornography market is damaging?

[cubanoafuego]

i did earlier, i think, but those comments seem to have dissapeared. youtube is really fucking me over right now. i am having this discussion with Sarahon, and i hope he remembers what i said. otherwise i will re-iterate if he asks.

[cubanoafuego]

where are the comments which i left earlier? i only got email notification for one response comment, but i cant see that either, and i didnt get an email for another one, even though the first said 'contd' at the end. anyway, i will respond to the one i got....

[Vogter2100]

Amhemsely's very first comment on one of my video was that he called me a moron and told me I was lying.

So I reacted. That is normal ;-)

And he keeps lying about me.

Saying I deleted comments on my videos which is a thing I never do as I love idiots to leave their testimonys to their stupidity.

And he says I say that he and Nuke flagged my curising video. Wich I never did. Sheesh.

He needs to grow up, if he dishes it out he has to be able to take it too.

[Nykytyne2]

I came.

[tatteredbroken]

you know imma bug you till you msg me bro. i have some major news i want to tell you.

[Textra1]

The whole argument of the poor woman abused as a child forced into porn because of her upbringing smacks of misdirection. If the same woman choose life as a floor mopper in Kmart, a career far more demoralising than a porn actor imho, you hear not a peep from them. What they're really doing is making a argument about the morality of the act of sex itself.

[Textra1]

Usually you only ever hear people talk about women in the industry as victims. This smacks of sexism to me. Poor weak willed little woman can't possibly choose a life in porn. No innocent little frau would ever do that right. A job mopping floor is fine; good woman's work, but porn *gasp*? Yet, men who act in porn never get accused of being poor little victims of the big bad wolf that is the sex industry.

[Textra1]

It's just another way of saying that woman are weak willed and cannot possibly make decisions for themselves. Jebus forbid that a woman might actually want to work in the sex industry.

[DoucheOfGod]

Well Textra1, womens "advocates" seem to do that quite often. I am amazed more women don't get pissed about it.

[thatgaybloke]

Textra1 - well said. I see a parallel here with the Islam hijab. Supposedly there to "protect" poor feeble little females from the evil lusts of males.

If you can't control people by convincing them that what they are doing is "wrong" then control them under the pretence of "protecting" them.

This ploy isn't limited to gender oppression - look at all the laws and infrastructure being put in place to "protect" us from terrorism.

[queenboxi]

well i guess thats the thing: shifting the norm

the anti-pornography people do not advocated banning pornography they just seek to educate others on how harmful it is in the hope they will choose to not fund it

domestic violence, corporal punishment, pedophilia, child abuse, incest, child labour, slavery etc all used to be considered "normal", but as a society we are shifting away from those things because we realise the harm

[CloudMeetsSky]

not all porn is voluntary. some girls are drugged and fucked brutally. im not nocking porn im a big supporter in porn in just saying its not always voluntary

[Sarahon06]

I agree. some people however want to make statements like "all porn is ____"

Can't be done really.

[Textra1]

When it's not voluntary it's called rape. And rape is a crime. In much the same way that when you're forced to work for someone it's called slavery and that is also a crime. The problem isn't porn or working, the problem is rape and slavery.

[CloudMeetsSky]

everyone is a slave. a wage slave. but ya i wasn't disagreeing i agree whole heartedly with sarahon

[fonna]

You fixed that hole in the ceiling?

It's gone!!

[trumasamune]

There are few things scarier than power-hungry asexuals willing to regulate against everything they don't like about sex.

Sure, you may be sincere in thinking people are being exploited and really wanting to help people, but really all you're doing is wanting to impose your biased preferences on others. At least, that is the feeling I got from nuclearnight, amhelmsly, angryislander, et. al.

Great vid Sarahon.

[Durakken]

The problem with the term "asexual" is that it means that you reproduce without sex... not that you don't have a sex drive.

[Fjarhultian]

No, that would be "asexual reproduction", a more specific term.

[onlywhenprovoked]

thanks for the kind words.

victimless crimes only make victims out of the so called criminals... arresting these women does not prevent more of it from happening - and only makes it harder for them to escape the lifestyle.

talk about oppressing women... turning them into registered sex offenders doesn't sound like feminism to me.

[theatheistgal]

sweetie, you are doing well at quitting smoking. I would rather the lolipops than the cigs. I wish I could quit..

[cubanoafuego]

oh, and by the way, im not attacking you. i just want to discuss this properly. nice channel :-)

[cubanoafuego]

in terms of it being 'just like any other job', well no, not really. i think that any job where being directly abused, physically hurt, and sometimes made to break down emotionally is common, there needs to be very careful consideration of the need for this type of work, in what way it should be regulated, etc. you must at least accept that the potential within this line of work for harm to people is greater than in 'normal' jobs. it is pretty much undeniable. it needs careful consideration.

[cubanoafuego]

other than that, there are people who need money for medical assistance (such is the fucked up system of many countries, including yours), there are people who need money to pay debts, sometimes through no fault of their own... there are countless reasons someone might need very fast cash, and have no other way of making it. to deny this is ridiculous. plus, porn from 3rd world countries, where people may actually need money for food, is perfectly legal and common on the internet.

[aunicornist]

True, it's the same how many of the clothes worn today were probably stitched in a sweat shop; but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with stitching clothes for money. The problem isn't porn but the abuses that go on within the mainstream porn industry. I think what will help is providing support for the impoverished and people who are abused. If women are being coerced or abused, then let's do what we can to provide them with a way out. Still, I don't see anything wrong with porn itself.

[cubanoafuego]

Sarahon, there is a market for child porn, real rape porn, snuff porn, kidnap/ abduction porn, etc. so the question obviously is not one of whether you should sell a product because a market exists. the question is whether or not the negatives outweigh the positives. you say you dont understand the 'force/ exploitation' idea. well, many porn actresses are drug addicts, for a start, which means that subjectively, they dont see a choice as you describe it. they need money, and fast. (cont'd)...

[Sarahon06]

I understand what you mean. I've read all of your comments. The fact remains however that the market does not exploit. Some people do and others do not. We can't just decide that no one at all can take part in something because others are using this item for exploitation. I understand the concern, but at the end of the day there is only one way to solve this problem of exploitation. (Cont)

[Sarahon06]

We cannot ignore the fact that these markets exist for a reason. "force" should be the only issue in my opinion. That's where the line should be drawn and frankly, it's not difficult to draw such a line.

[Textra1]

Exactly. Force is the issue. The drug addict who chooses to act in a porn film may not feel like she has a choice, but she does. Can can stop taking the drugs. It's hard to do, but it can be done. She chooses to walk into that door and let some strange guy(s) fuck her for money. Her choice.

[Textra1]

I have an addiction. I'm addicted to food. If I don't get any, within a week or two I get really sick. So I have to work some shitty job I'd rather not be doing so I can maintain my habit. Am I being exploited? Should we make shitty jobs illegal too? If' I'm being held against my will in chains being forced to do that shitty job it's a different situation. I can choose to leave my shitty job anytime I like. That's the difference.

[Sarahon06]

I couldn't agree with this comment any more.

[TheTruePooka]

I'm curious, how would you define; "Force"?

Some would say that the unfortunate circumstances that come from an upbringing of abuse, poverty and lack of education would create a mentality that is that of the classic victim.

In other words; the nature of their circumstances and upbringing are what force them into being a victim of the sex industry.

[panthera50]

You are right, there are many circumstances where "force" takes on a totally different meaning.

[JJAngelton]

But how is the sex industry responsible for any of those circumstances?

[Textra1]

It's easy to obfuscate terms by over extending a definition, but in this case I think the line is easily distinguished. In this context force means; I put the proverbial gun to your head and say, 'Do this'. Forced to perform acts against one's will by another person or group of people.

[Textra1]

If your intent is to argue that we make choices based on how we were influenced in our childhood, I cannot agree more. However if you're trying to suggest that we need to protect people from their own bad choices because of poor upbringing, I cannot disagree more. A poor upbringing leading to a person choosing to enter the sex industry may be unfortunate to some, if you happen to already think that sex work is a bad thing in and of itself, but it's still a choice.

[Textra1]

It seems never to occur to some people that sex isn't something everyone sees as holy, pure and sacred. Why is being a sex worker because you need someway to pay the rent and worse than having to shovel shit because you need to pay the rent? Why aren't we trying to protect people abused as children from being a garbage collector or a street sweeper or a checkout operator? God forbid, some people might even *shock horror* like being a sex worker. Perhaps even take pride in it.

[Textra1]

The bottom line for me is, I will do what ever I want with my own body. I will have sex with any consenting adult partner for what ever reason I see fit. It's MY choice. Mine! Not yours, not his, not hers, not the government's, not the Pope's, not the tooth fairy's. Mine. Savvy?

[TheTruePooka]

When I quit smoking on chew on toothpicks.

Which is very; "Fugetaboutit!" of me. A terrible habit, but whatareyagonnado?

-----------

See, you SHOULD try something to have an opinion on it.

Porn is sinful!

I've spent thousands of hours watching porn to be sure of this.

I watch it daily so that I'm able to tell others which porn is more sinful than other porn so that they know to avoid it.

It is a sacrifice I make for the common good.

[tomtomhungry]

Thank you sir... I'm sure the sacrifice takes a lot out of you ;)

[TheTruePooka]

(holds up head nobly)

No no, do not thank me. I do this for the good of all human kind. :->

[gentlebutch]

great vid as usual 5 star'd and favorited

[aunicornist]

klfly makes some good points on porn: watch?v=uzt5ooVUpZs

[nuclearnight]

I have a sex drive, I just choose not to act on it.

[xxxThePeachxxx]

What is really frustrating is when they argue that force is implied in all cases because, in their opinion, no one REALLY chooses to participate in pornography/prostitution. The "No True Hooker" fallacy, as I call it.

We all know of cases in which people really were forced into porn/prostitution. And I imagine that the real victims would be appalled to see these so-called "women's advocates" on their behalf comparing willing participants' experiences to their own systematic rapes.

[nuclearnight]

No, I have never made that implication. I know some people choose to do it, I just don't think their rights come before the rights of those who are abused.

[Sarahon06]

What does one person's rights have to do with the other person's rights? Most people who are involved in this are making the choice on their own. Protect those who are being abused and leave the rest of the people out of it. One has nothing to do with the other.

[ogrish84]

I <3 porn.

You can take away my freedom but you will never take away my PORN!

[bobble12221]

Lol, it's Kojak with hair

[jakluk4]

very well said :)

favd

[woodsofodin]

Yep. It all comes down to supply and demand and people's willingness to meet the demand for an incentive.

[amhemsley]

I realise that asexuality is not typical, but what I object to is when not being natural is used as an excuse to attack unrelated issues like my views on porn.

On the porn thing I think there are more than physical forms of force, such as social and economic force. The fact is people with other options don't tend to go into porn or prostitution. The people who do are overwhelmingly form poor backgrounds with history's of abuse and drug addiction.

[TheNakedAtheist]

"On the porn thing I think there are more than physical forms of force, such as social and economic force."

In THAT sense we're all forced to do things we don't want to do. For a couple of months between jobs when I was young I had to take a job cleaning toilets at minimum wage if I wanted eat. If I'd been a woman I absolutely would have chosen porn or prostitution. In my opinion both are much less demeaning.

[TheNakedAtheist]

continued...

My point being do we outlaw cleaning toilets, or digging ditches? How about people who work in nursing homes cleaning people's asses for barely more than minimum wage. The problem isn't porn or prostitution. The problem is the attitude of people who oppose it. There are MUCH worse jobs than those that people are "forced" to take due to social or economic situations.

[opethfan92]

And not to mention that pornstars get paid WAY more than those people, if I had a daughter and she became a porn actress at 18, I wouldn't be very happy but it wouldn't bother me that much either as she's getting paid a lot of money and she's old enough to choose what kind of life she wants for herself.

[prodigyat9]

@NA

Thanks, you just saved me the effort of saying the very same thing.

[Arkblu]

Okay, if these people have no other choice, then where do they go when you take it away?

[MrVisions]

I agree with your point of view, I watched a documentary (sort of a day in the life of a porn photographer) This guys starts his day shooting gorgeous girls, then next stop obese crack whores, then next stop whips and chains people. to him its just delivering a product. it all goes to a wholesaler who inventories it and then sell blocks to various server farms. The whole business seems to be more mechanical and desensitized than deliberate and immoral. its just a pixel meat packing outfit

[unassumption]

Just because something isn't typical, doesn't mean people should attack people for it.

[Sarahon06]

I'm sorry did I say such a thing?

[ghostofdayinperson]

yay for lollipops! Yeah, anyone who thinks that people who voluntarily participate in making porn are being exploited is retarded. I think they're mixing that up with sex slavery.

[ReverendAtomSmasher]

Agree G.O.D.

[phenixwryter]

You summed it up perfectly, GOD.

[SethReturns]

"I think they're mixing that up with sex slavery."

I think they intentionally conflate the two so they can make an argument. It's analogous to saying that because in some parts of the world some people are chained together and forced to break rocks with hammers, that anyone who breaks rocks with hammers is automatically a slave. Even when they're doing it of their own free will and are being paid $50 an hour.

[AncientAtheist]

And the "norm' is being really fucking horny too. At least with males. Yeah, I unsurprisingly agree with every fucking word here. I'm not big fan of porn - hell, I can conjure in my own mind whatever type of erotica I choose... I guess some people can't do that - but I digress... I don't use pron, but I have nothing against it other than coercion. Coercion is against the law. there's your fucking crime. Deal with that, not with the product, since much of it is non-coercive.

[BrianJunglist]

hello

[Godlesshayes]

I was planning on doing a video about this subject, although I think you nailed down many of the same points I'd like to make. You are a voice of logic and once again glad to see you back.

[stormywolfpup]

your discusting lollipop fedish :D

[happyjesus123]

I am not sure a theoretical understanding of sex is that helpful. Some of the problems you see with the Anti-porn folks is that they often have not had positive sexual experiences and thus don't understand people who do. You see a lot of prejudice directed toward the BD/SM community by these sort of folks who just don't understand the lifestyle.

If anyone is exploited in porn it is the male actors who work very hard for little money.

[redFISTofEUROPE]

fucking good points!

5*

[Rithrandil]

I agree 100%. I don't buy the "porn is exploitation" bit, or the "oh, they're just being used as sexual objects for men to masturbate too!" as if men are the only ones who watch porn and women are the only ones who participate in porn.

And even if that was the case, so what? It's what they're being paid to do. When I order a sandwich from fucking quiznos I don't feel guilty that the only purpose the dude behind the counter has in MY life is to make my fucking sandwich. It's his job.

[mysadending]

We have all qualities that make us "normal" considering we are all from the same species but we also factors that make us unique (experiences, mutations, etc etc). I would rather have the whole of society agree on certain matters then later on have to deal with arguments that could occur because the overall is not in agreement. As a female, I have no problem with porn as long its within legal laws (no force, agreement is made between those who partake etc etc)

[DesertLaser]

Great commentary

[AsheIsTheRaven]

I think I commented on her video more than anyone, it went through into am argument about how making something criminal doesn't make it go away.

The point was lost

[Boodrowski53]

lol

[Ramiiam]

Lollypops!. Lol. At least you're not sucking your thumb or biting your fingernails.