The Anarchist Roundtable #1: Ron Paul

[SiouxSyndicate]

Viva a true Anarchy..and that doesnt come in leaders im afraid for Ron..natural leaders perhaps..no power however like the current politicians have..or dont have lol. Read M. Bakunin, Emma Goldman on postive (A) structure etc.

[CloverfieldMonster95]

@prjctcivilian anarcho-socialism is a contradiction.

[IcyScythe]

who are the other people speaking with stefan?

[shamgar001]

I support the idea of a stateless society, but we can't achieve that if most people think the government is going to solve our problems. I want someone to "save the republic" because if it implodes it will just be replaced with an even worse dictatorship. What someone like Paul would do is show people that freedom works better than statism, and people can be more effectively converted until we can phase out the state peacefully.

[WEH1123]

The other thing I am skeptical on voting is who counts the votes. In Ireland their was some voters scandal. Say if Ron Pall gets the vote they may come up with some voting law BS to not allow him in office and have us vote again. Look at Obama he does not show significant evidence he is a born citizen. As of now that doe not matter to me but what I am getting at is those in power seem to pick and chose what voting laws count and after what happened in Ireland I lost all faith.

[corkskrewclubhouse93]

Explain to me how Ron Paul wants to change the constitution if he says he is a strict constitutionalist?

[shamgar001]

@corkskrewclubhouse93 The constitution contains mechanisms for changing it.

[silentthriller]

I think abortion wonders into the realm of masochism.

[NewVinland]

I was with the woman until she mentioned abortion. I believe this violates the non-aggression principle. Aside from that, I'm pretty much in total agreement on the important issues.

[gdmk1000]

Why is pro-life not a consistent libertarian position? It ultimately stems from the question of at what point does "life" begins. To me, as an atheist, it is similar to the question of "at what point do you become an adult", which is not black and white and therefor I am willing to accept differing answers, including his ("At the moment of inception").

[violetta3333]

There were a lot of really good and interesting points, but is there a need to laugh like that when pointing out things the three of you can see that others don't? Sounds arrogant and a bit childish. It's good that you get certain things that RP doesn't seem to. Have you tried inviting him for a debate so you can exchange ideas?, instead of laughing at him like he and who supports him is stupid.

[breakingthe4thwall]

Ron Paul is an anarchist, there's an interview of him on youtube where he states his support for it, it's code: wFYRHZ

[MrSafetymeeting]

The controllers of this country will never allow Ron Paul to have any power. The way Ron Paul is helping is by educating Americans. Why does that lady keep brining up abortion and immigration? Illegal immigration is terrible for our economy and there are legal routes. Abortion is not a presidential issue. He does not want the power to make abortion illegal. How in the world could anarchy ever work? Humans operate on greed and the bankers who run America are never going to let that happen.

[MrSafetymeeting]

I don't think Ron Paul's stance on governemt should bother anarchists very much. He believes the constitution limits the governments control of the people. I also don't think he has changed my negative feelings about government. If anything he has reinforced my distrust by proving to everyone who listens that our system is terrible in many ways and everyone lies. Please educate me on how he is not a libertarian. I'm still learning libertarianism.

[jacobromu]

His evangelical christianity scares me more than a statist. I am, however on the left. If I beleived in an evangelical style yahweh, I would not worship him out of protest.

[MirageScience]

Ron Paul used to be a Libertarian, he is a republican.

[Clyaton]

@MirageScience correction, he's a libertarian republican, I'm quoting Ron Paul SEVERAL times.... He's both, but I don't think he likes the titles so much, because regardless of what ideology you follow, you still differ in some way from every person in your own party.

[Loyal2Liberty]

0:27:02

Count me as one. I hope that you are right and more people than me have been scooped up into this more consistent discussion. I don't think I would have found Freedomain Radio had I not gotten excited about Ron Paul. In a sense then, I think he has helped the movement.

[MrRob77]

@Loyal2Liberty I am in. I have only recently (within the past few years) began to thoroughly examine and research actions, not words of all candidates instead of voting along party lines. The wool was over my eyes.

[thinkrevolution]

Honestly, if it wasn't for Ron Paul and his libertarian ideas, I wouldn't be an anarchist right now.

[jacobromu]

@thinkrevolution credit where credit is do. That doen't mean he is indeed RIGHT about a lot of stuff.

[fps0chris]

@thinkrevolution Same here Ron Paul also introduced me to the libertarian way of thinking. Although I would not vote for him anymore he is still an important vessel of truth I think, atleast he gets people thinking a little outside of the norm.

[Legaltimes]

After talking to the smartest man i may have ever met I was nearly convinced that to be an anarchist is something I may want to be apart of. After searching YouTube I now think that to be an anarchest is the dumbest thing I have ever heared. It is totally absured to think that humans can govern and organize with no leadership dictating movement and action to achieve productivity. To be an anarchist is to be the most passive none productive movement ever.

[FlashVirus]

@Legaltimes

In a stateless society there would still be forms of governance. There would still be police, courts, fire departments, roads, etc...

if you want I could send you some e-books in PM for free that explain in detail how a stateless society works.

[IcyScythe]

@FlashVirus I know you posted this ages ago but I'd love to read that

[Legaltimes]

fvasbvas

[grndslm]

Gotta write the rules down. Rule #1 - No concentration of power. Rule #2 - Gotta write the ideas DOWN to form a unique, technological platform. Rule #3 - Gotta be open-source from top to bottom, inside and out. 2 things the "state" MUST do and businesses CAN'T is contracts and defense. The people can get 33% vote of Congress if they really wanted some control. The U.S. Gov't has already compiled a few things I've been thinking about for about a decade. ----- mitworld . mi t . edu/video/753

[grndslm]

And the "state" should have an "innovation corps" and a "futuristic", online, social forum that connects all people together to debate bills and show voting records out in the open. It's interesting how 3 Libertarian-Socialists meet at an Anarcho-Capitalist's lame display of a government. Libertarian-Socialism, my friend. I think you need help, Stefan. Get productive. Ideas abound, write 'em down.

Constitution is a GREAT START! Just amend with rules.

[ronpaulspanish]

33:00 Stef: They move north because they are even more enslaved in their country than they would be in the U.S. Subsidies to U.S. farmers harm the U.S. economy, not the economies that benefit from a cheap product.. PLEASE keep the cheap stuff coming, so that I can focus on producing other stuff...

[vagra57]

@ronpaulspanish

"Free trade" enables multi national corporations to create a presents in foreign countries and undercut local farmers thus driving them out of business. The destruction of economic opportunity is attributed to the immigration of indians, mexicans ect.

[MarmaladeINFP]

I agree. I like my leg broken more than my back broken. LOL

I understand why people like Ron Paul, but he isn't my ideal choice. My issue is that I prefer the theory of libertarianism more than the actual libertarian movement.

My criticism is along the line of what Chomsky says. Libertarianism grew out of liberal working class movements in Europe. I'm a liberal and it confuses me why so many rightwingers seek refuge in libertarianism b/c they think the GOP is too mainstream & moderate.

[LibertyJedi]

Don't want your leg broken but in fact that is the world we are dealing with: that is exactly what the state will do if your not a "good" slave. "Deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it to be." SO you go down the road of putting G.Bush on trail, how long do u think the established media will carry you? This guy must be completely naive to how the world really works. Becoming more a slave is NOT the answer... Why don't these people come up with a solution other than being a good slave?

[lorerax1]

Know your rights.

"Only fools mistake politicians for messiahs."

The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited.

They know in advance when to create panics to their advantage. They also know when to stop panic. Inflation and deflation work equally well for them when they control finance."

What you do is put ppl in categories?

Doing things define you.

Stop yacking and do something about it.

[europarl]

I come from the European left and I can say that socialism is the elites tool to keep us all in perpetual poverty. I can only listen to you in amazement as I can see that from far away Europe I know more about Ron Paul than most Americans. Read man, READ! Start with Murray Rothbard's classic: "What has government done to our money?" it is online and it teaches you what money is and how the federal reserve is enslaving you.

[Sivels]

exactly ;p I come from Denmark, and became hugely interested in (first) Ron Paul then the libertarian movement and then austrian economist and then stefbot... Now I can never be anything but this.. Can you believe I live in statist Denmark ? ;p

[terps4eva9]

libertarian socialism is the way to go

[MarmaladeINFP]

@terps4eva9

Damn Straight! Libertarian socialism for the people! Chomsky for 2012!

[hyylo]

if you want to learn where RON PAULS views come from search youtube for

MISES INSTITUTE

[sirellyn]

In the end when I look at politicians I look at the actions, and ignore the words unless they are in sync with their actions. Ron Paul is indeed one of the few whose voting record has been consistently in line with his words. You may like or hate that, but people constantly complain about voting in a politician who doesn't do what he says he would. I can't see any stronger candidate than RP who would be as predictable.

If you don't want him don't vote for him. But vote on action, not words

[RobertChavis]

I am a anarchist as well and have been for over five years. I was introduced into anarchy by a scholar who understood the nature of the state and his favorite quote is "The State is a cancer" and yes, this is true.

[chatsworthsharp420]

hey anarchists,

i'm learning about anarchy, and i've been interesting in anarcho-communism

and i'm wondering how an economy will work, or any other info about it,

hit me up, or message me what you have to share, b/c i would like to expand my mind

[chatsworthsharp420]

lol,i just found the answer to my question

agorism info

[danielshaneelledge]

the people vote for the presidents then stabb em' in the back. screw political revolution lets just build an army and show our anger.

[Shawnwilson69]

Omg.... Quit demonizing Ron Paul! Ron Paul owns u all. Ron Paul speaks for the people that is why you have a problem with him. If you don't do what he wants the people... the people may take action. So if i was you all I would be down with what Ron Paul wants...

[prjctcivilian]

ron paul isnt an anarchist. anarchism is the end of hierachy you cannot have this with capitalism

[spawk1993]

LOL I love people that talk out their asses. Anarchism is the fullest expression of capitalism .

[prjctcivilian]

that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard

[spawk1993]

lulz , I get the distinct feeling that your not very educated in capitalism and libertarianism. Look up "anarcho capitalism" or " market anarchism"" then come back.

[prjctcivilian]

anarcho capitalism is an oxymoron

[spawk1993]

lol . I dont often say this, but I think you just might be stupid. Your are completely uneducated on the subject yet you make a judgment on it, sad .

[prjctcivilian]

i firmly disagree, if the purpose of anarchism is to destroy hierarchy in every form (traditionally speaking) then how do you justify capitalism, a economic system based upon vertical social relationships

[spawk1993]

Did you even look up anarcho capitalism like i asked?? lol

[prjctcivilian]

yes i did and i think it is funny, the purpose of the state is to protect the inequalities amongst men which is a self evident in capitalism.

[hydralisk125]

The "purpose" of anarchism isn't to destroy hierarchies. Anarchism is simply for the abolition of the state.

[prjctcivilian]

then you have not read enough

[chatsworthsharp420]

lol , it is an oxymoron

[NitroxideHS]

The 10 commandments of Anarchy.

1.Thou shall seek to destroy capitalism in all forms

This is the first and foremost greatest commandment for all Anarchists. Everything flows from this first commandment. Anarchists seek to subvert the capitalist system and capitalists themselves at any appropriate time... Check out my channel too see the list.

[spawk1993]

hmmmmmmm, your list is bullshit. anarchism is just stateless society. nothing less, nothing more. and whether or not you call it anarchy or not is unimportant. stateless capitalism is the best way to go. also , i dont see how it is possible to get rid of all things capitalist w/o a state. but anyhow, your trying to impose a bullshit list and a bullshit objective definitions, because of this............fuck you fuck you fuck you

[NitroxideHS]

whatever why do you care? :p

[wingsuitfreak]

I agree totally. However, I also agree with those that support Ron Paul as his affiliations with Libertarianism is a very close step towards anarchy. It isn't close enough for me, but it is a hell of a lot better than the totaltarian system we have in place today.

[bakunin888]

"prominent anarchists" lol

libertarianism isn't anarchism

nor should any anarchist think of him/herself as more prominent than others

[andrewscottpoland]

Very intelligent discourse. I'm so grateful there are people like you on YouTube. We must start with education, and YouTube is a very good place to begin educating people on political reality. Keep up the good work!

[ya19375]

very interesting video. i supported ron pauls campaign, because i saw he had a large movement going, and i thought he may have a chance to get people thinking of reducing the size of government. rather then asking what the government can do for you, or do on your behalf. maybe even to think, what do i need a government for anyway? i would love to see a stateless society. i dont think i will see it in my lifetime, but lets keep up the good fight.

[scineram]

Man, she is a liar. @59 min

[scineram]

Where did Block say the state owns public roads and stuff?

[JOTTjakoff]

If u are revolutionaries, wheres ur aks?

[d3can]

stfu you know nothing

[ya19375]

in my gun cabinet, along with my shotgun, sniper rifle, and six shooter. ummm your point?

[wingsuitfreak]

As for myself, having seen war, I prefer this internet revolution over the violence of the norm. The normal definition of revolution only leads to the diverting of the peoples' wishes towards a different system of controlling them. With the internet, we have an actual opp to achieve a mass awakening and tossing aside of all the social systems in place to control us.

[ElasticVag]

I don't know how every 4 years people have a collective amnesia and forget about how every-single politician who has ever existed has been nothing but a liar vying for peoples support.

That's their job people, to sell you snake oil, and you keep buying it every 4 years.

And every 4 years, you think that this time it will be different.

There is finally an anarchist stance on the topic.

[RokonFan1988]

The violence of the state is very real...it is not in the "abstract" and "theory"...but it is real, I have experienced violence or at least the threat of it from the state many times. I almost got thrown in the state prisons and I can't stand these "libertarians" who love the state...

[krissy4nik]

Well look at the recent case of the new york gentlemen killed on his wedding day by cops he and his two friends were unarmed and 50 shots were fired at them. There was no jury in the trial only a judge and surprise surprise they were found not guilty.

[PvtSchlock]

Well violence is real, but the threats,coersion and intimidation is what I find most difficult to deal with. People can see wig splitting, but the arm twisting they make excuses for. I was shocked at how many athiests are really religeous about the state. Its almost disgusting. I can't stand the excuses people make TO love the state. It is "intellectually repellent".

[krissy4nik]

I'm only recently rethinking my ideas of government and the question in my mind is if government needs to be small and limited because its dangerous why do we need it at all?

[stefbot]

That is a most excellent, excellent question! :)

[bebop54]

bravo !.....bingo .....

[catfrenzy]

because if there is no gov., you will be my bitch. who will you call to stop me from taking your property ? what legal system will administer justice? anarchy will be great for me; it will be hell on earth for you. its not that hard to figure out. anarchist are not very good at reasoning.

[krissy4nik]

Anarchy would give "you" no legal authority over me . I also would not have to call anyone to stop you from taking my property because I would not be restricted in arming and defending myself. Also anarchists tend to have a collective mentality and if one were attacked the rest would defend the one. The haymarket affair is an example of that and had there been more anarchists they would have won out completely.

[catfrenzy]

of course i would have no legal authority, there would be no legal authority. also you are not restricted to arm yourself now, but u probably dont own a gun. most anarchists i know are also pacifists. under a sys. of anarchy, he w/ the most violent force wins. im a minarchist, its obvious that gov is a neccessary evil. i would be fine under anarchy, but most would experience the raw brutality of the nature of mankind(especialy the weak and unarmed)

[krissy4nik]

the problem is history has shown us that those who seek power generally do not stop with minimal controlled power. This nation started out hoping for a minimalist government it always eventually expands. As for arms there are restrictions on arms and theyre getting worse (not than im an nra fanatic)As for the violent "nature" of manking it would be far less in a society of truely free people. things like prohibition and poverty cause violent crime most often.

[catfrenzy]

im native american and i can tell u that tribal ppl used to be as close to truely free as u can get. they were often very violent. also poverty doesnt cause crime. i grew up poor and wasnt criminal. socio-economic status is extraneous. if there is no gov to administer a sys. of justice the weak will be fulltime victims. u seem to imagine things as u wish they were; not as they are. this is admirable in philosophy class, yet catastrophic in the real world.

[krissy4nik]

Individuals are more likely to be criminals if they are poor that is statistically factual.That doesnt mean every poor person will become a criminal. Also,tribal people were violent but on a far smaller scale and it was mostly personal dispute but they r not anarchists they had govenment leadership. As for the application of anarchist principles being catastrophic we do not know because for a long time govenment authority has exsisted and we are in a pretty catastrophic state globally.

[catfrenzy]

"tribal people were violent but on a far smaller scale"? you need to bone up on your tribal history. this is inaccurate. u can use circular logic all u want but it doesnt change my opinion that your faith in mankinds compassion triumphing over greed is grossly nieve. if we are in a "catastrophic state" with a justice system, it would be ultra-catastrophic without.

[krissy4nik]

The euro-centric hyper govenment power structure has been responsible for for more death than any aboriginal community past or present. As for the logic that stopping a system that has been catastrophic will be ultra catastrophic that is only your guess because it has not been done.

[catfrenzy]

why do u think they called it the wild west? it wasnt because there were so many model citizens in the abscence of law enforcement. gov. is evil; but a nessecary evil. on this, u and i will have to respectfully disagree. we must be ever vigilant to reduce the size of gov to its constit. mandated role.

[krissy4nik]

Well at the very least you seek to keep it at a minimal and i suppose that is respectable . Thank you for the debate very stimulating :0)

[catfrenzy]

the pleasure is mine. its nice to argue over how tiny gov should be instead of how it can take care of us from cradle to grave.

[catfrenzy]

look, u and i are reasonable ppl. we would not kill each other or take each others property. the rest of the world is not like us. i own firearms and i am trained in kenpo. noone will ever transgress aggainst me w/out paying a heavy price; but bubba and his buddies down the street will be having his way w/ everyone that cant(or wont) protect themselves. this is just common sense.

[krissy4nik]

I dont believe it will be utopia and all will hold hands and sing but i do believe the majority of people only seek to feel their familes and live comfortably . I also believe that those who want that will protect themselves against those who threaten that peace most reasonable people will protect themselves and family when threatened. I strongly contest your idea that "bubba down the street" will become the majority and rape and kill because the political structure changes.

[streetz23]

@krissy4nik I think the problem is that right now we aren't ready for anarchy. There's so much hate and prejudice that if we take away rules we will all kill each other. We need a good transition into proper humanistic anarchy and with Ron Paul as president is pretty much setting the stage for such a transition.

[krissy4nik]

@streetz23 There should be a transitional period but Ron Paul isnt going to be the one to elimate prejudice and hate so that humanity can get along. Also i think its a false premise that people would just go out killing each other. Those who have the tendency to commit homicide do so in the current system where there is a prison system. If someone is a hateful killer no government entity or lack thereof is going to change that .

[streetz23]

@krissy4nik you're correct. RP won't eliminate prejudice and hate but his ideas of free market and trade will help with the transition as compared to our current conditions. His ideas will force people to cooperate with each other rather than relying on the government to take care of them.

[Manohwar]

hey stef, you mention that out of the RP campaign some may be able to get converted to a more consistent view of freedom or libertarianism. I'm glad to say I am one of those who has come from his campaign and have seen those inconsistencies and seen how Ancap(or anarchy in general) as the only viable alternative. Thank you for your videos and podcast shows. :D

[xelenty]

Stef.. one question.... Caffeine or de-caf?...

[stefbot]

Why, extra-CAF!

[xelenty]

Well done... Im glad to see you have at least one vice.... I have to admit to drinking the odd beer whilst listening to your verse... Keep up the good work...

[patriciamikkelson]

I really appreciate Stef's kind manner. I agree with you and the other man that good is going to come out of this.People are ready for change

1. The highest priority for Ron Paul is that we get our troops out of harms way. He has the power as commander and chief to do this.

2. He will do his best to help us reclaim our rights.

At this point we can start discussing how to make change--maybe even having neighborhoods be independent nations! At least many of us will be alive to have the dialogue!

[sedition222]

What about vag?

[blastingcaps]

This is the same old sort of discussion. Reform or revolution. but what i cant figure out is why are "prominent anarchists" as these people are described above discussing voting at all?

[DackBev]

Blah. More idle moralizing.

[rsobrien]

83 minutes?

[snipa4lyfe]

And it's some of the most enlightening 83 minutes on YouTube my friend.

[hagbard72]

You know, becoming the pope and then desolving the Catholic Church might actually work. You just come out for Easter Mass and tell th gathering that its all a lie and they're being tricked. Okay, maybe it wouldn't.

[thorsmitersaw]

I am not one who would proclaim your friend evil for running and being elected to try to change the world through that means. I have also come to the same realizations about change through political process.

But I HAVE seen Paul attract people to at least more liberal thought. I would not be SO pessimistic about his run. I see some hope that a message of liberty (be it muddled and logically unsound) is attracting young people. Especially when I was sure they would go the opposite way.

[davyjames]

Whatever you guys think about Ron Paul or whether goverment can ever work at any size it is intellectually dishonest to suggest Ron Paul is for war as long as it's declared. Ron Paul is completely anti-war, he voted against the iraq war and you can listen to his entire, prescient speech on youtube which he gave before it. He only wanted congress to live up to it's responsibility, so that if America went to war and it went tits up, "representatives" could be held accountable.

[stefbot]

And how are those "representatives" to be held accountable? Will they receive the death sentence for genocice?

[davyjames]

Maybe not, but even if it's only their careers that are ruined they are less likely to vote for it if its their name on the policy. I understand your position on all of this stuff stef, but Ron Paul is trying to save lives, genuinely, and I think you're pretty cynical about that in a lot of what you say. It's easier to upload a podcast spotting logical contradictions in morality than it is to stand up against the entirity of congress for what's right.

[violetta3333]

@stefbot I always thought RP wanted congress to declare wars so it wouldn't be that easy for US to go to war. Sure it's not going to solve the problem but at least it's something small while we are trying to sort out something proper, like Anarchy

[takadi]

A welfare state requires closed borders. Period.

Ron Paul believes in national sovereignty and his power to protect freedom only extends to the water's edge.

Ron Paul is NOT going to build a fence NOR is he actively going to deport people.

Tell me why you guys are credible again? This is why no one is an anarchist, the messengers can't even get their facts straight

[XOmniverse]

"Ron Paul believes in national sovereignty"

And we don't. Case closed.

[stefbot]

On RP's web site, he says "no amnesty" for "illegal aliens." Is he not going to enforce the law?

[takadi]

Troops will be required to physically secure the border, but ultimately a economic incentives must be attacked first and the states will primarily have to deal with it. As for Federal benefits, he'll have to work with the Congress.

[takadi]

The system is on the verge of breaking, so we have to work within in to fix it. Once the system is fixed, we can focus on other groups.

[captZEEbo]

the system can't be fixed, it's fundamentally flawed.

[takadi]

Human beings are fundamentally flawed, does that mean they have no hope for the future?

[PeekyBooo]

excuses. excuses.

[hybaj]

I've only heard 16 minutes passively listening but that woman is misinformed on some of the issues on RP. Especially non commenting on the stormfront/nazi/WS issue. He already did comment on that long time ago. A smart anarchist reads as much as he can to educate on the issue and then speak about it. She sounds so mainstream that I wonder how anarchist really is she.

[davyjames]

people vote this down? What's the problem with truth?

[thorsmitersaw]

Though I agree overall with the 3 musketeers...

Trying to get congress to put their name on murder isn't something I would oppose (as much as that can do, instead of pushing the responsibility to the president which allowed them to point fingers & preserve themselves)

Some of the points raised were a bit of a stretch. But I do believe Ron is deserving of critical review. I would encourage you to genuinely consider the arguments & where the stopping point of freedom is.

[D4Shawn]

One of my personal theories is that the inherent nature of advancing technology will ultimately and naturally nullify the state (and it won't really take that long [30 years maybe]). This to me is likely one of the reasons why various power structures stifle technological advancement through suppression of the free market. I realize this has nothing to do with what we're doing personally (as a freedom movement), but I strongly suspect that technology inherently decentralizes power.

[D4Shawn]

So... even if we don't win, nature/technology/evolution will.

[D4Shawn]

Actually, I suppose it's all inextricable connected. What are we doing? Using the technology, right? So... we are certainly catalyzing the transition. Winning is actually inevitable. Progress is a juggernaut.

[D4Shawn]

Notice (for example) how the internet (as well as radio/telephony/etc.) make geography fairly irrelevant. The concept of a state of course is completely dependent upon the relevance of geographic territory. That is one aspect of how technology will basically disassemble the state piece by piece/aspect by aspect. The state is basically a machine (piece of technology) that is becoming obsolete.

[Durgeofcerberus]

can you send me a youtube message next time you have a call in show.