Thanks so much for the defense of God's love and desire to save.
There is one point that people often miss when they quote those verses in Proverbs: the speaker is nor God, but Wisdom, personified, presented as a woman, a mother full of good, life-saving advice. When we refuse wisdom, wisdom will mock us in our calamity. God does not; He weeps. Jesus came, not for the righteous, but sinners. He does not mock our calamity; He saves us in our calamity.
....we rely on the living God who is saviour of ALL men 1 Tim 4 10 ...
Col1 v 20 and through Him to reconcile ALL to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens. 1 Tim 2 v 4 Who wills that ALL mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth. 1 John 4 v 8 God is Love, 1 cor 13 v 8 Love never fails 2 pet. 3 v 9 not willing any should perish
Matt 27:44 says (both) the robbers reviled Him, but Luke tells us one rebuked his fellow criminal and then seeks entrance into the eternal kingdom from Christ. So, sometime during the crucifixion, one of them repented and believed. Great story unfolds when the two narratives are combined.
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."
Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." [if He calls you, He will justify you]
Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
In John 6:44 Jesus says the one who is drawn will be raised up at the last day (meaning to eternal life). Since you believe God draws each and every single person, wouldn't you also have to conclude that all will be raised up on the last day (universalism)?
Great. Many people falsely believe that there are people who are predestined to go to hell. If that were the case then we would not need to preach God's word would we? Blessings brother! =)
Do you realy think that one thief was that much better, smarter or spiritually sensitive than the other, this makes one man better than another,because one did something good and the other did not
I have been praying God has mercy on Michael Jackson, never bought a record of his but i feel so much compassion for that poor man. Compassion given to me by God ( be careful what ya pray for he comes through with the goods)
yeah, I hope he was saved too. It seems as though he died really suddenly though. God could have drawn Michael Jackson to Him right before death...all things are possible. I guess we'll know this side of heaven...but his poor little kids def. have my prayers!
Laras....if Michael Jackson was not a Christian before he died, no prayers for mercy that we can pray for him will have any affect on his eternity. Not sure if that's what you meant...I feel really bad for MJ as well. His life was something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, and his death so quick...and those poor kids he left behind.:( :( those kids really need our prayers!
I was never his fan either. But its still very sad.
"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—"
My friend... I love you very much in Christ.. very much so! :) Here in Romans 9, we see that God will have mercy on who he wants to have mercy right? He can do as he pleases right... ? Well my dear family member in christ. Romans 11:32 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
God wants to have mercy on all mankind, all are disobedient, not one of us can say we are not, but all have an opportunity to accept our living mesiah.
"For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." "
"One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will? "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "
Amen... we must also remember that the pharoah himself also hardened his own heart and the first time it was God but the rest it was the pharoah himself who was hardening his own heart. Romans 11:32 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
"The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."
Indeed Pharaoh did harden his own heart, but God said here He would harden Pharaoh 's before Pharaoh hardened his own heart. He harden whom He hardens, mercies whom He mercies.
Of course it's not me vs you, I do hope you got something out of this brother, as I myself try too. GB!
Amen SalvationEternity777 That is the key man, us not getting into an argument over this lol You are my friend and family in Christ regardless and I am yours.. if you ever need anything just let me know! : )
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
They "cannot" understand them, because they will not since they are dead in sin.
All reformed believers believe man do have a choice, but saying they are free to choose good and evil exalts their nature more than what they truely are.
God Bless and I hope your day is going extremely well! ;) Once again, these bible verses are powerful.. they are powerful! However, in none of them does it state that God created some for heaven and some for hell... Rev. 22:17,says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely ." They can take the water of life freely.... Whoever will, can take it freely! :)
Eden these are not for you lol these are for salvation eternity, keep on scrolling back to the other page to see my full 9 post reply to you.. :) Ok... My friend, I agree man on his own cannot and will not be able to save himself, this is why God is drawing all men and giving them a free gift, just two simple choices.. repent or hell, accept salvation or perish, obey or disobey ext.. well you get the point. God's free gift of salvation is something amazing! He is AWESOME! :)
Therefore if any men that are drawn will eventually be saved, how can all men be drawn?
x drawn = x saved
all drawn = all saved
If all men are drawn, all men will get raised up and come to Christ, and what you get is universalism, a heresy saying all men will eventually be saved.
Now I'd like to comment briefly on God creating "some for heaven, some for hell"....
I believe God creates man, and He does give them a choice. But because men is depraved, He will always choose to run far from God, and be condemned. God did not cause this, God did not stir up unbelief, it was their unbelief and hardened heart. But God has ordained these men to exist.
God does not in any way shape or form cause men to sin, nor is He the author of sin, but He has ordained all events in place, and yes, even condemnation of people.
lol...whatever you said to me, didn't show up as a response to me in my comments. If I hadn't came here I'd have no idea you answered...so I'll have to find where the response to me starts. I'm so confused as to which one of us you are talking to in most of those comments...LOL stupid YT.
but...anyhow, I'm going to sleep...I'll figure it out tomorrow (or next time I get some time...I haven't been getting on the computer as often as usual lately...) and once I figure out the comment order and I'm not half asleep I'll answer. But thanks for the answers.
I Know what you mean... the same is happening to me, I have had to simply come on the page and look for them because YT is not reporting any comments.. lol Dont worry sister, go rest and have a great weekend! :)
it's sure is annoying. lol and half the time my comments don't even go through.
i THINK i figured out the comment order. if not,. then i'm gonna end up in a conversation not meant for me.
but right now, i'm sleepy. i went to bed too late, and got up too early...I started to comment, and decided it's best i don't. making an idiot of myself doesn't seem fun. so i'll work on it when i feel like it. lol
(honestly, i should go to bed now. i'm just too stubborn to-or stupid to?-. LOL)
I just wanted to say again that this is not a you vs. me argument... I love you in Christ and I have learned alot from you and hope you from me and bottom line God gets all the glory because he is mighty! Let's just say that God is AWESOME! :) :) :) :) :) :)
The bible does teach depravity, but it doesnt teach inability. As an example: Revelation 22:17, the last invitation in the Bible, says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely ." They can take the water of life freely. Romans 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. He show's mercy to all. The End! :) Praise God! :)
response 7: The bible does teach depravity, but it doesnt teach inability. As an example: Revelation 22:17, the last invitation in the Bible, says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely ." They can take the water of life freely. Notice, they can take... God is giving them a choice, because he is letting them Take Freely Continued in response 8
It is not a choice that we earned, worked, deserve ext it is a limited choice. Its called freewill as a name but just like the reformed faith is called Calvinism. Its only 2 choices, its 2 choices Obey or Disobey, Repent or Dont Repent, Hot or Cold in revelations, because there is no grey areas in Christ. If you are grey, either hot or cold, you get vomited as revelations says, either you are obedient and repent or disobey and perish.
There is a balance Eden, and as we can see in Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. There is a foreknowledge of God, God knows who will and who wont, nothing surprises God, but we cant blame God for our actions. We have a choice. continued in response 6
Remember in Matthew 25:41 41 Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Eternal fire was prepared for the devils and his angels. If what most say that God made certain men for hell and certain men for heaven is true, then why wouldnt it say God prepared eternal fire for the devil, angels and those who I have decided on not allowing them a chance at being obedient. Continued in response #5
In this verse we can see that God has predestined things, but he did it based on his foreknowledge. God knows who will or wont choose him. God calls those who he knows will choose him Elect and those who he wont, he will send them to hell. However, it doesnt mean that those who will go to hell didnt have a choice. Continued in response #4 LOL this is taking long huh?
These verses at no point however indicate that man cannot choose God. I mean, we can assume it means that... but in none of them does it say we do not have a choice to choose to obey or disobey. I want you to take a look at this: Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. Please read this bible verse again, and the key word is foreknowledge. Continued in response #3
sorry this took me so long...lol i've been busy, and sorta behind on sleep, still sorta am, so who knows how much sense this is gonna make.lol I'm still sorta confused as to which posts where to me and which were to SalvationEternity777 but I'll try to respond to some stuff you said anyways. lol
Acts 2:23, basically God not only knew it was going to happen, He decided that it should happen for the Salvation of His people. Things that God knows are going to happen can be done because God first wanted (and knew) it was going to happen. God knew Judas was going to betray Jesus. He knew that Jesus was to be crucified. It was part of the plan
Are you saying that God's entire soveringn plan is based on the actions of men and He based it on our own free will before we were even born...but since He based it on our free will before we made the free will choice, He doesn't have to sit and wait on us to make the choices after we make them to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't?
You are right that hell was made for the devil/fallen angels BUT it is clear the wicked men will go there. People try to say people choose hell, and the reason people say this (maybe they don't even realize that this is what they are implying) is because if the people in hell made the CHOICE to be there, the 'blame' if off God...and we want God to be a loving God who gives everyone 50 million chances every day to repent and not a God who just throws the wicked into hell.
But it is mercy we all aren't in hell this very second. It's mercy we didn't get thrown into hell the very second we sinned the first time. NO ONE would chose to go to hell. If we could see hell right now, it would scare us AWAY from hell, and we would be crying for mercy. On the other hand, because we are so sinful we won't chose God either. See the problem in men choosing? That's why I don't think we choose on this.
It's true that we can't blame God for our actions. But I don't believe God bases Salvation on foreknowledge. Is unbelief a sin? God doesn't save us based on ANYTHING we do. And if He just looked ahead to see who would want to accept Him, then He is basing Salvation on works by giving it to those who will not commit the sin of unbelief. (and btw, none of us would chose God in the first place, so all of us would go to hell).
The problem with the depraved but not inable thing is, man is spiritually DEAD. not spiritually sick (in that we are affected by sin greatly but not so much so that we can't be good).
The fact that the Bible says we don't seek God means we are inable to come to Him. If you seek you will find, but you cannot seek Him without God calling you. Without the power of God you are inable to chose God over sin. Not just salvation, but EVERYTHING spiritual is a gift from God, including faith (Eph. 2:8) and repentence (Acts 5:31).
Sister.... so basically, just to compress all of our 1,000,000,000,000 posts lol You and I are in agreement except on weather salvation is available to all or not right? Then if thats the case..... Let's just pray for each other.. let's continue to learn from each other.. :0) I was thinking of one thing today and maybe you could help. You know how it says, many are called but few are chosen. If man cannot reject God's call, then they were all who were called chosen but only some?
As for your question...yeah, many are called, it's the universal command that people repent and believe and trust in Christ...but people can't do that nor want to do that. the 'few who are chosen" are the ones who actually respond to the call, and they only respond cause they are elect.
"And if He just looked ahead to see who would want to accept Him, then He is basing Salvation on works by giving it to those who will not commit the sin of unbelief."
Eden, this is an excellent point! Wow! I'm impressed with your knowledge again!
Amen Karen! Your Daughter is Very Gifted! :) Hey did you see my new minny chihuahua! Pass on by and check it out... on my hunt for a chihuahua... it weights less than a pound
I'm a Calvinist. And because of this, I have been labeled as a heretic. I don't think that's right. But others do, so....I've lost a lot of friends because of it. But that's okay...I've dealt with it and God has soothed my heart and lessened the pain. I have assurance in Him and in His Word. I'm not a heretic, but others still think so.
Oh well...I guess one day we will see, won't we? I am secure in my Savior and I don't really care what others think of my being a Calvinist anymore. I do not worship John Calvin. I respect him very much. But he is not God and he did not write the Bible, God did. But Calvin got a lot of it right. And I agree with him on some things. I am a Reformed Baptist. In my long absence while I was offline, I took a lot of time dealing with this and almost didn't come back...
But this is where God wants me and He's given me the strength and courage to do what He wants me to do. I am NOTHING in the scheme of all things and He is EVERYTHING. That's what's important. I must decrease and He must increase. I must die to self and let Him live in me and use me for His purposes and that is all that matters to me. I've learned a lot while I was gone and I'm still learning. Yeah, it still hurts, but it's easier to bear because the Lord has calmed me and and comforted me. :)
I believe His Word and what He says in it. I don't have a problem with what He says. I trust in Him and all of my faith is in Him and I've learned that losing friends is just a part of the sacrifice I have to make to follow Him. It still hurts, but He makes it easier. :) God bless you for asking and not just assuming. I appreciate that. Take care!
1st Response: Let me start saying I do believe in Total Depravity, although the term is not in the Bible, in Jeremiah 17:9 it says: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked." This simply means, we have no way to work or earn salvation. This is why Christ is giving it to mankind as a free gift. All of the Bible verses you posted simply re-afirm that we are not capable of working our way towards salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God continued in response # 2
Ok, cool, I thank you for these bible verses. Please note my English is not good, I am Puerto Rican! However it might take me like 8 or 9 posts to answer my thoughts. Hopefully both of us can learn from each other because we are a family in Christ. ;) This is not a I am right vs. You are wrong, I consider this like Bible Study online via youtube!
.. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' ""
I'd like to post a scripture from Ezekiel just for kicks.
"He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. He asked me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" I said, "O Sovereign LORD, you alone know." Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life.
It does break my heart to see that Calvinist believe that we don't believe in 100 percent grace. We do, it is not of us. God has given us free will, so to act and make choices in that free will, is not works, as some would say.
If I believe as the Calvinist do, then how can I know if I am chosen? How will I know in this life if I am one who God has called? There is no assurance for those who are Calvinist because they don't know if they are chosen with any certainity.
Believe me, as someone who hasn't always been a Calvinist, and someone who has read comments like yours it seems like hundreds of times, we don't think you deny grace. No one ever said you denied grace. What it seems you deny is that it is GOD and GOD alone who chooses. God is not dependent on the choices of men. Only the elect have that grace.
And I know I am saved. I don't think I'm more saved than I was before I was a Calvinist. Now I just understand WHY I am saved better. :)
These are just for comfort, sisters Karen and your daughter.. just praise God. Put on some worship Music and dont allow the enemy to steal your joy. A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.Prov 17:17 "Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called."
1 Timothy 6:12 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6 PRAISE GOD! ;)
"Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh."
He calls and some refuse... :)
I can post bible verses and you can posts bible verses but right now... I dont want to argue... I love you guys and I dont want frustration... just pray for me and I will for you.. :)
I don't want to argue either. I'm just really defensive because I see how badly this video has torn my mom. I don't like it when she feels like this.
I love you too...I don't want to argue. I'll pray for you. Thanks for praying. :) My only point is, we want all these anti-Calvinism videos that can't biblically refute us to end. All it causes is needless drama. Even though, I'm sure that probably wasn't your intention. It's what happened...
Romans 11:32 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Here my great sister... it says that God has mercy on us all... the keyword here is all....
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb. 2:9) Here we see that he tasted death for every man, keyword here is every man..
Tali, Romans 11:32 is speaking of 'all' meaning Jews and Gentiles. "all" without distinction, not "all" without exception. You should know this by now.
Heb. 2:9 is referring to everyone who will believe.(Heb. 9:15,28; 10:39) And I know you are going to say, "IT SAYS EVERY MAN". Well I could say, it excludes women. Could I not? Once again, context my friend. ;)
Hey bro! ;) Ok... so in every verse I provide the word "All" doesnt mean all, the word "Word" doesnt mean world, the word "whoever" doesnt mean whoever... :)
Tali, Heb. 2:9, is best understood to refer to everyone of Christs people, everyone who is redeemed. It does not say 'everyone in the world'. In the context, the author is speaking of those who are redeemed i.e. verse 10-Bringing many sons to glory, verse 11- those who are sanctified, and verse 13- the children God has given me. And the greek word pas, here translated 'everyone', is also used in a similar sense to mean "All of Gods people" in Heb. 8:11.
Its called the context my friend, the context. In John 7:4 Jesus' brothers told Him to 'show yourself to the world'. Did this mean the WHOLE WORLD? Or to the people at the feast of booths? I think the latter would be the choice. What about John 12:19? Look, the WORLD has gone after Him. Did the whole world go after Jesus? I think not. Once again, context!! ;)
Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Grace is a gift from God. Faith is our choice. Our freewill. We chose to accept or reject.
The thief on the cross believed, because he was 'enabled' to believe. Acts 13:48. Look at John 10:25-30. Why did some not believe? Because they are not His sheep. John 6:40, notice it is the will of God , not man.
Acts 16- where does that faith come from? Eph. 2:8.9 says is comes from God.
John 12"32- means all kinds of people, Jews and Gentiles, not everyone who ever lived.
Romans 10- whoever calls on the name of God...well who will? Those who whom the Father gives Him. John 6:37-39
Hey! I never talk too much! Really! LOL!!! Okay, okay, but you talk more than I do! I can never get a word in because you be quiet long enough to take a breath and let me speak! hehehehe.....mess with me! Hehe!!!
Now, I'm more into the Calvinist doctrine, but these are good points & verses you raised. Regardless of doctrine, I always consider you to be a true brother because you seek the Spirit in all your dealings with people, Tali. Great job & beautiful vid as always!
Ifd this were not so, why did John the baptist say Jesus takes away the sins of the world? Jesus daid John was a prophet. Can a prophet of God speak false gospel. Nope. The sacrifice is applied to those who are saved, but His sacrifice was for all man. Just because we do not know who will be saved, nor did John, does not mean God did not make it for all. Jesus was the light of the world, not the light of the neighborhood.
Christ died for everyhone in the world, but the sacrifice only applies to those whom are saved. John the baptists said jesus takes away the sins of the world, not the sins of certain people. That means Christ died for mankind. But it does not mean that the sacrifice pays for the sins of everyone, only those who are saved.
All men can't be saved because no man comes to Christ on his own and we have to be drawn to Him, and if He drew us ALL to Him, no one would go to hell.
I'm not trying to 'start something'; you know I love and respect you as my brother in Christ, but I have a few questions:
Did Jesus come to save, or make us saveable? If Jesus paid the penalty for all, then why would anyone go to hell? If Jesus paid the penalty for even the people going to hell, is the penalty paid twice?
It also seems to me that unlimited atonement implies the death of Jesus isn't sufficient, but that my choice has to be added into the equation: the blood of Jesus+my freewill choice.
All I mean is, if Jesus came to save all men, all men WOULD be saved. If Jesus died to save all men and just ONE person goes to hell, that would mean Jesus failed.
That's why I believe He died only for the elect. :)
"Free-will doctrine—what does it? It magnifies man into God. It declares Gods purposes a nullity, since they cannot? be carried out unless men are willing. It makes Gods will a waiting servant to the will of man, and the whole covenant of grace dependent on human action. Denying election on the ground of injustice, it holds God to be a debtor to sinners."
Sister Karen! ;) How is it going sister.. check out my Thunderstorm survival Video! lol :) What Charles Haddon Spurgeon wrote is awesome... but you and I both can agree that its not in the word.. its his belief on it.. I think the fact that God grants us, the opportunity to obey or disobey, shows how Glorious, and powerful he is... its not that we are God, contrary, if God wouldnt grant it in the first place, we wouldnt have it. Did you watch part 2... please check it out ;O)
I cannot agree. Do you honestly think that I would post something unbiblical? Tali, you made your video stating your beliefs and I stated mine in it's comments. I used Spurgeon because he says it so well. I did watch part 2. I still don't agree. The way I believed was NEVER a problem until Monica made her video and now Calvinists are the bane of Christianity. I'm getting REALLY tired of YouTube. Seriously.
Mankind is evil. We are God's enemies until we are saved. We would NEVER choose God of our own freewill. We are dead in sin, meaning our spiritual condition is dead, we would not choose God. When God, in His grace alone, draws us to Him, He regenerates us and gives us the faith to believe in Christ alone as He is revealed to us in God's Word and then we are saved.
And the glory goes to God alone. There is no choice for man. When God reveals Himself to man for salvation, that man is going to believe and be saved. He does the choosing Tali, not us. His death WAS sufficient for all, but efficient only for His elect. He died for only those who ever believed, who do believe, and those who have not yet believed but will.
Only those Tali. Only the elect and the elect are Christians BOTH Calvinist and Non-Calvinist. I know you said you believe we are Christians and I am glad to hear you say that, but there are many who do not think that. To them we are worst than atheists. I know this because I have had to deal with them EVERY SINGLE DAY since TicToc made that video. EVERY DAY, Tali. And I am getting tired of it real fast!
People who were my friends, Tali, now hate me for my faith. I found out that I had a lot of "fair weather friends." It cuts deep and it hurts! I don't even know who to trust anymore.
But God has given me more friends through this whole ordeal and actually, to be honest, I have more friends than I did before. God's mercies are new every day and I am so grateful for that, because a lot of Christians on YouTube have no mercy! I know I've not been nice to some of them, but they came at me first and I will defend my faith. You know this already, that I will. You of all people know this.
I know John 3:16 says "the world" but that doesn't mean every one, it means the elect, and you are one of His elect, Tali, it means those who are His in each and every nation, He saves some from each nation in the world. If the whole world can be saved, they would be, because once you are drawn to God by His grace and the faith that He gives you, you will not choose to not believe.
I know.... I know its hard.. just keep on Trusting Jesus.. thats all I ask of you.... forget about anyone else... just trust him.. and once you keee p on trusting him like I know you always do because you are an awesome sister.. everything else is going to work out 100% You watch!
Sister... don't worry about it... :) We used to get it worse when we were dealing with Wiccans, pagans and witches and we never got this frustrated... and that was hard because they are unbelievers.... we are believers... so don't let it get you down. God is going to you use here on Youtube !
Tali, actually, for me, dealing with Wiccans, pagans and witches is EASIER to deal with because I know where I stand with them...they hate my guts and they don't hesitate to let me know it! O,o But this, this is worse. Why, because we are SUPPOSED to be a family. I could see this happening if the Reformed faith was like, say, Catholicism, or the Emergent Church or even those who believe in Oneness theology that denies the Trinity. But it isn't.
I'm used to being persecuted by wiccans, pagans, atheists and witches. But now the people of our own family in Christ are the ones doing the persecuting! That should NEVER be! You said God is going to use me on YouTube. Tell me, Tali, after all this MESS against Calvinists, how many people are going to listen to us preach and teach the Gospel now? There are many souls left to win, how can we be effective in winning them now? Yes, the ones God has chosen will be saved, praise God!
And He WILL save all those who are chosen, but we are to win them to Him and now.......
I do have faith and I know that they will be saved no matter who He chooses to witness to them. Thank God it's not left to our own devices. But a lot of us have now lost credibility. So....yes, God will use me whether it's here on YT or somewhere else and I will serve Him in whatever way He wants me to.
And even though we will go on to serve Him in whatever way He sees fit, there are those of us who will be hurt by this in many different ways. This is not a guilt trip, nor do I or any of us want anyone's pity. I just want you guys to look at it from our perspective so that maybe you will understand better where we are coming from.
God is all-powerful and nothing that happens to us doesn't happen to us until it has passed through His hand. He WILL use this for His glory! Just wait and see. :)
I know sister... it cannot be easy... I know. I also want to give you a flip side of the coin here.. I have about 3 or 4 no lie, calvinist friends who have not been the same with me... Have I done something to them? nope... not at all..but they wont reply to my several attempts at emails... they dont reply to anything, just cut me off like nothing but neither I or You can do anything about that. All you and I can do is continue to preach..... does it hurt.. Yeah! But God comes first
Tali, 3 or 4 is really not that bad compared to my loss, but even still, it should never have happened to any of us and we are not the ones that set it off. How can any of you believe a woman just on her word alone? How can you not take what we believe, get your Bible and try to find out where the Reformed faith is wrong. I did this Tali, I took their doctrines and I went to my Bible and to disprove it and I couldn't. It is ALL Biblical.
A lot of US have lost MORE than 3 or 4 friends and some of them weren't nice about it. How many times have you gone to read comments left on your channel and someone has left you a comment that denounces you as a heretic? And Tali, you did NOT answer my questions. You know me well enough to know that I want the answers from YOU. I am not angry. I think that I deserve to have the answers from you.
You didn't do anything to anybody? Well...neither did I, as a matter of fact NONE of the Calvinists did anything to anybody. It was NOT a Calvinist that started this, it was one of you who are not Calvinist. What? We were supposed to let her comments and accusations in her videos go unchallenged?
Monica KNEW what she was doing and her reasons weren't innocent. She accused the brethren falsely, and who is the accuser of the brethren before God, Tali? Satan is!!! She called for all of you to put us out of the church until we repent of Calvinism and you all did exactly that! Is she suddenly God, Tali?! Shunning us and putting us out of the Church because our theology is a little different from hers? And then she cut us off so that we couldn't even defend ourselves!
Tell me, Tali, is what she did Biblical? And did you even search the Scriptures to see if what she said is true and in God's will? Apparently not, since you agree with her. Tali, we have learned a valuable lesson here. When you accuse the brethren falsely you DIVIDE them and we are NOT supposed to do that! LOOK at the damage done. Have you seen the comments left on your all's videos from atheists? They are LAUGHING at you guys. They didn't do it this time, you did it for them!
And God is being mocked by them because of all of this! And don't blame us for it. We didn't start this. All we have done in return is defend the faith. And I have yet to see one Calvinist use deception and lies to prove our point. But some of you guys have. It's disgraceful!
Most definitely God comes first. That's what we have been telling you guys for the last two months! We seek to glorify God and you all seek to glorify your own freewill. Fine....God is POWERLESS to save you unless YOU let Him. If that's the kind of "God" you want....okay. But our God, Jehovah, Almighty God who is Sovereign over EVERYTHING and He IS Mighty to SAVE us without our help! He is MIGHTY TO SAVE, Tali!
Isaiah 63:1 "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save." (NASB)
My dear sister, "Apparently not, since you agree with her" What has happened.. :( :( I dont get this... not one bit. Did the lord not put the message "How would Jesus Treat A Calvinist " in my heart after that message. I am praying for you, you are not the same Karen I know... I know that something must have hurt you bad, and if it was me.. let me know, but if it wasn't then I shouldnt be treated like this and much less by you.. .:(
Tali, you agree with her that we are wrong. Yes, your video about how God should treat us was great, and you must remember this....I am not only speaking to you hear but to ALL of you. And yes, I am hurt. I am very hurt. We all are. The ones we have loved have turned on us and video after video is being made against our faith. Tali, that hurts us because for us, Jesus Christ is our LIFE. All we do, we do to serve HIM and HIM alone.
We believe He is a Sovereign God, in control of everything and we are called heretics because of this. Our witness is being destroyed by EVERY SINGLE VIDEO that is made saying we are wrong. Our credibility slips because people just believe what is told to them and don't seek out the truth about us. I never thought I'd ever see the day that the ones I have loved the most.....my CHRISTIAN family on YT would turn against me because I believe in God the way I do and I believe HE gets the glory.
And because I believe He gets the glory and none for myself I am a heretic. Tell me, Tali....how would it feel if I said you were a heretic just because you believe your own freewill saved you? Wouldn't that hurt you? I didn't do anything except serve my God in the way He tells me to. And I am a heretic. And yes, I'm hurt. I'm not any different than I ever was. I am not the one who changed. I am standing firm in my faith. I will not be moved. I am not the one who moved.
And Tali, you still haven't answered my questions, or Zach's or Eden's. We're still waiting. If you can't answer them, then perhaps you shouldn't have made this video.
Sister.. once again I tell you... let all your worries, fears, doubts and concerns go and let God take care of it. Forget about what people say. People said i would be in Jail, Dead or still drug dealing... if I would have listened to them, wheere would I be... You are taking this way too serious and way too personal.... This is not a You vs. Them... not at all... we are one body washed by a precious blood of the lamb. Drop down that defense and let the lord give you that peace that you need
Tali, once again I tell you...I do let my worries, fears, doubts and concerns go and let God take care of it. TRUST ME...if I did what I wanted to do, it wouldn't be pretty. And you know it! I know your past, that has nothing to do with this. This is the here and now and we have been WRONGED BY YOU AND YOUR NON-CALVINIST FRIENDS and we don't have to take that and we aren't. We are called to defend the faith and to guard what God has given us and we are doing that.
I'm taking it too serious and too personal? Are you kidding me, Tali? Of course I am taking it seriously and personally. I HAVE BEEN CALLED A HERETIC!!! And I'm just supposed to shrug that off? It's different if the one calling us this weren't our own brethren! But it is and I hope you guys are satisfied with it.
What good came out of this Tali? That if you're Reformed you're going to hell. Yeah....I take it seriously and personally. Sheesh! I have not said me vs them. It is US vs. YOU! When my brothers and sisters in Christ hurt, I HURT with them. And you should too! I can't believe you even said that! I am appealing to you because we are friends, because we are friends and I guess I was wrong to try to show you how all us Calvinists feel. Another lesson learned.
When we are treated like a part of the family then we will be. What is wrong is that you guys just won't let up! It's everyday for us Tali, every day! And we are comforting each other and we cry together and we love each other and so far it is only us who love us in the family. Yes, you can believe that, but you won't let us believe the way we believe. If you did, then you would NOT have made this video. I am not letting this come between us, but I won't let you come between me and God.
It is US vs. YOU! Sister... I have nothing but the upmost respect for you.... this is why I am telling you, just dont worry about it..... keep the focus on the lord. He deserves it ;) Weather its us vs them or us vs. you, its wrong... and its not biblical... not at all, God does not want the division that denominations bring... he wants one body and I know, I know that we will got get it right some day. Until then, let's just chill.. I LOVE YOU IN CHRIST! ;) You are a special sister!
Tali, why did you make this video? What did you expect the result to be? How many Calvinists posted here with hopes of someone actually LISTENING to one of us? Not many. Why? Because we are giving up hope in those of you who just keep it going. And you did keep it going. :( And now you have the result. All your other friends are slapping you on the back congratulating you for taking on the evil Calvinists and our comments get thumbed down and ignored. Yeah....it worked out well for you, not us.
Sister.. no one is slapping me on the back... I am not here for it... and The calvinists who have come... like Hauck.. we ended up being friends.. :) I still dont get it..:) LIke I said and will continue to say.... I love all of you... and I have no problem. with any of you. Never have, never will.. I haven't meet one calvinist that I dont get along with.... You stay strong sister and God Bless... Looking forward to your next Fallen Series Video! ;) Tali
Sister... Christ never told you, that you wouldnt ever be called any names... I say this again... "I HAVE BEEN CALLED A HERETIC!!!" By whom? I want names? besides Monica Denington and I will and let them know and we will all 3 just have a nice conversation and hash it out... I see alot of anger... and that is not of God. Do you want me to do this, just us 3 or 4, I can set up a conference room and like a family in Christ, we can talk about it.. and just praise our LORD.. :) HE is mighty!
"WRONGED BY YOU AND YOUR NON-CALVINIST FRIENDS" :( :( How, because I made a message that the lord gave me, which I clearly indicated to all to compare with scriptures which indicate that salvation is available to all. Come on sister Karen.. whats wrong? So I can't believe that salvation is available to all and be your brother in Christ... well anyhow... you have a blessed day... remember we have been friends since I had 2 subs... lol Are you going to let this come in between?
Well sister, I have prayed and God is telling me to just leave it up to him. I just pray that you are well. If you ever need anything just PM me.... I am here for you, always have, always will, you are my sister.... and we are one body... no us, them, and stuff... God Bless and I love you guys! :) BTW, tell your husband Happy Fathers Day, I emailed you but I dont think you got it because you didnt reply... tell him "Whats Up" lol :) Have a great night!
We are one body? Really? Perhaps you should make a video about that. Because we've been shunned by most everyone here who is not Reformed. You don't treat family the way we have been treated. And I am trusting in God. I seek His will in everything I do. When we are treated like we are family with the Non-Calvinists then we'll be family. Until then the only family we've had is each other in our Reformed faith and Tali, we've all been wronged and we're hurt.
So for now, for us, we are a family and we love each other, we Reformed brothers and sisters do. And we are trusting in God to get us through this. You don't know how weary we are. How tired we are of having a new hurt each time a video against our faith is put up.
It was fine to be Reformed BEFORE Monica's video, but now we are suddenly reviled and did you take Monica's teaching and hold it up to Scripture? If you did, you would have known she was wrong and so are you.
I'm sorry Tali, I will not deny my faith in Christ for anybody. Not even you.
"I'm sorry Tali, I will not deny my faith in Christ for anybody. Not even you" Dear sister Karen... my bestest friend.. ever... Have I ever asked you to do that? Have I? I never have... I honestly believe you should right now go and pray and worship. I am sure it will make you feel bettter.. Take a time out and chilll, its not easy being on Youtube.. its not... but please relax, drop down your defensive guard... its not a Us vs. them... we are one body... Stay strong sister..
These videos have made all of us, not just me, feel like we've been banished. And for some, we have been. I am not talking about just you and me, it's the others. You were the one person I thought maybe would really listen to me. I asked you questions. You have not answered them. That tells me things that I never wanted to know or feel. :( We are not one body until you guys let us back in the family. For now, it seems we only have each other. :( :( :(
We are not one body until you guys let us back in the family.
Sister... what are you talking about.. :) Dude, you have been and still are... who said you are not? Please I want names? Besides monica denington... who has said that you are not in the body... tell me and I will go right now and let them know... lol :)
No, no names. I just want it to be over. Naming names will just lead to more fighting, more accusations, more VIDEOS, you have watched the videos you guys have put up, you know who calls me a heretic. I've always had your back, Tali. But you didn't have mine this time. :(
I asked you on one of the other videos to wait until I could get the proof that the video maker was being deceptive and you said you would. Well, I gave you proof and the man who was falsely accused by your friend's video had to make a video to clear his good name! and he did. I personally transcribed that man's comments and put it on the video. And yet, with the evidence IN YOUR FACE you still believed your friend over it. THAT HURT BADLY!
You kept silent and you didn't say a word. And I feel like you think I lied about it. What else was I suppose to think or feel. I didn't lie. I never have. And we proved he lied and you kept silent and now he is slapping you on the back for your awesome video about how wrong we are and nothing is said to him about how wrong he was. THAT IS WHAT HURT! And so, I'm still a heretic to most non-Calvinists.
And those who stood against me are now on your friend's list. Okay....I'm happy for you. I really am. Your channel's grown a lot the last few months. You worked hard, Tali. And so have I, faced with a LOT of stuff this year, and here I am, and I stand behind my faith and my Savior who comforts me and that's all that matters to me anymore.
Tali, this may just be 'just youtube'. But just 'youtube' can be a huge deal. Actually, this whole disagreement may actually be more harmful BECAUSE it's on the internet. The internet is like a public record...if I say something to you in person, it's my word against your word based on memory. If I post something on the internet, those comments are visible for all.
And public youtube comments show up on the video, in your youtube comment box, and your email and can be copied endlessly even if they are deleted off the main page. Videos can be seen by millions, and even if they are removed you do not know who has saved it on their computer. What's put on youtube stays on youtube, and if it doesn't, chances are it's still on the internet SOMEWHERE.
And this info is viewable to all. The Christians on YT are divided and there is a public record of it! How does this nonsense look to those who are athiests? It's shameful how ridiculous this has gotten. Man, I hate drama. How does this look to new Christians? It's stupid. And we didn't start it. Monica Dennignton sent me a friend invite, a LOT of Calvinists were on her friends list.
Then she went and made those videos saying we were adding to the word of God and worshipping John Calvin and that we should either repent or not be included in fellowship. I'm not sure, but my guess is she added Calvinists because she wanted to be darn well sure we saw those videos. After that everyone and their dog decides to make videos against us. Yours, Tali, was the nicest I've seen. But it still was against Calvinism. What was the need for your video?
Is what we are saying so heretical that it needed ANOTHER video devoted to it? And then after you made the video, you haven't answered all of our questions. I know you said you were at work or whatever...so maybe you're working on it? But I really want those answers. I wanted the answer to what someone else asked about whether or not God did 100% or whether we had any part of it. 2 people asked you that, Tali. And it isn't that complicated an answer. So please?
I just want you to think about what you're saying/implying.
All Mom is saying is that all these anti-Calvinism videos are getting old. and getting old FAST. You are one of her best friends. You may not realize it, but it seems to me that your video hurt her more than Monica's just because you are her friend. And because this video hurts my mother, it hurts me.
Monica's video against Calvinist's hurt. And then you had to make one too. Why? I didn't care, nor did Mom care whether or not you are a Calvinist. Our beliefs are not heritcal nor a Salvation issue..yet you had to make a video during all this drama, and all this video did was divide us further. I hope that wasn't your intention, but that is what it has done.
I don't question your Salvation, Tali,and even respect your belief... and while this is only my opinion and it is far from my place to tell you what to teach or put on your channel, I think we all would have appreciated if you had let the fire die before putting up this video.
Mom is hurt because she gets it EVERY DAY from non-Calvinsts. It's ridiculous. The witches and atheists aren't half as draining to deal with. The channel's of some of her best friends was the LAST place she ever expected this sort of stuff. She's just really upset right now. So I don't think she's going to get back online tonight. :( She'll probably work on her videos later, even though the Fallen series is on hiatus, she is planning, I believe on a Calvinism video. :)
I understand you mother is hurt.. its not easy.. and sister, I know its hard..but we have to learn not to take things so personal. Jesus Christ told us this would happen. This is nothing, the persecution levels in america will rise so high that we won't even be able to say a Praise the Lord... and we have to build resistance and tolerance and just continue to seek God regardless of who, what, where, when is talking about us... its not personal.. our enemy is Satan not arminians, calvinists ext.
Tali, I expect persecution against Christians by non-believers. I handle that everyday and it's just the way Jesus said it would be. BUT Jesus didn't tell us we had to endure persecution from our own family membersand that's what these videos are - a persecution of Christian Calvinists. This is not the type of persecution Jesus told us we'd endure.
Correction is fine, Tali, we are SUPPOSED to correct each other. But this...this has been a sort of "witch hunt" against us and even though we're used to that, and we are used to that, it still hurts to have it come from other Christians.
This is not correction. This is something I can't explain...it's an attack and I realize you didn't mean it to be that way and I appreciate that, but the other videos, the lying and deception used to make us look bad, the false accusations of saying we said God decrees child rape and that we worship John Calvin and that we Calvinists are the same type of "religion" that Islam is...I'm serious...there is a video stating that Islam and Calvinsm is the same thing.
These are ALL lies Tali. And I do appreciate the fact that you DID NOT lie. I only commented to see if you would listen to me and see it from our point of view. It never mattered before Monica's video that I was a Calvinist. It was OBVIOUS I was a Calvinist and even you asked me about it and you were fine with it, but now we are shunned and it hurts.
CONT.
I really hope you can see that & understand my point. We aren't supposed to persecute one another because we all are His.
Thanks so much for the defense of God's love and desire to save.
There is one point that people often miss when they quote those verses in Proverbs: the speaker is nor God, but Wisdom, personified, presented as a woman, a mother full of good, life-saving advice. When we refuse wisdom, wisdom will mock us in our calamity. God does not; He weeps. Jesus came, not for the righteous, but sinners. He does not mock our calamity; He saves us in our calamity.
Mcfirefly2 5 months ago
....we rely on the living God who is saviour of ALL men 1 Tim 4 10 ...
Col1 v 20 and through Him to reconcile ALL to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens. 1 Tim 2 v 4 Who wills that ALL mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth. 1 John 4 v 8 God is Love, 1 cor 13 v 8 Love never fails 2 pet. 3 v 9 not willing any should perish
HISATdotCOM 1 year ago
Matt 27:44 says (both) the robbers reviled Him, but Luke tells us one rebuked his fellow criminal and then seeks entrance into the eternal kingdom from Christ. So, sometime during the crucifixion, one of them repented and believed. Great story unfolds when the two narratives are combined.
Jere616 1 year ago
Brother, what about:
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."
Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." [if He calls you, He will justify you]
Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
crem004 2 years ago
In John 6:44 Jesus says the one who is drawn will be raised up at the last day (meaning to eternal life). Since you believe God draws each and every single person, wouldn't you also have to conclude that all will be raised up on the last day (universalism)?
God bless you.
AgApE010 2 years ago
Great. Many people falsely believe that there are people who are predestined to go to hell. If that were the case then we would not need to preach God's word would we? Blessings brother! =)
MultiArchangel 2 years ago
I am glad you agree... :) Praise God.
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Do you realy think that one thief was that much better, smarter or spiritually sensitive than the other, this makes one man better than another,because one did something good and the other did not
1689Baptist 2 years ago 2
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ! Glory be to GOD! Awesome video my friend and thanks for spreading the truth! May Jesus bless you.
lovewalkministries 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Salvation is offered to all the multitudes!
lovewalkministries 2 years ago
God wants to have mercy on all mankind
AMEN to that!
I have been praying God has mercy on Michael Jackson, never bought a record of his but i feel so much compassion for that poor man. Compassion given to me by God ( be careful what ya pray for he comes through with the goods)
Laras420 2 years ago 2
Poor dude, I hope something dramatic happened to him the last few minutes of his life and he accepted jesus christ
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Well he was seeking God, just hope he found Jesus first.
Laras420 2 years ago
yeah, I hope he was saved too. It seems as though he died really suddenly though. God could have drawn Michael Jackson to Him right before death...all things are possible. I guess we'll know this side of heaven...but his poor little kids def. have my prayers!
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Laras....if Michael Jackson was not a Christian before he died, no prayers for mercy that we can pray for him will have any affect on his eternity. Not sure if that's what you meant...I feel really bad for MJ as well. His life was something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, and his death so quick...and those poor kids he left behind.:( :( those kids really need our prayers!
I was never his fan either. But its still very sad.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
(cont 4)....
Please read this with prayer:
"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—"
(Rom 9:22-23)
Preparing the context with the verse before this, I hope the text speak to you clear as day about God's sovereignty in everything.
God bless brother.
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
My friend... I love you very much in Christ.. very much so! :) Here in Romans 9, we see that God will have mercy on who he wants to have mercy right? He can do as he pleases right... ? Well my dear family member in christ. Romans 11:32 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
God wants to have mercy on all mankind, all are disobedient, not one of us can say we are not, but all have an opportunity to accept our living mesiah.
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
(cont 3)..
"For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." "
(Rom 9:17)
"One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will? "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "
(Rom 9:19-20)
....(cont 4)
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
Amen... we must also remember that the pharoah himself also hardened his own heart and the first time it was God but the rest it was the pharoah himself who was hardening his own heart. Romans 11:32 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
"The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."
(Ex 4:21)
Indeed Pharaoh did harden his own heart, but God said here He would harden Pharaoh 's before Pharaoh hardened his own heart. He harden whom He hardens, mercies whom He mercies.
Of course it's not me vs you, I do hope you got something out of this brother, as I myself try too. GB!
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
Amen SalvationEternity777 That is the key man, us not getting into an argument over this lol You are my friend and family in Christ regardless and I am yours.. if you ever need anything just let me know! : )
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
(1Cor 2:14)
They "cannot" understand them, because they will not since they are dead in sin.
All reformed believers believe man do have a choice, but saying they are free to choose good and evil exalts their nature more than what they truely are.
God bless.
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
God Bless and I hope your day is going extremely well! ;) Once again, these bible verses are powerful.. they are powerful! However, in none of them does it state that God created some for heaven and some for hell... Rev. 22:17,says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely ." They can take the water of life freely.... Whoever will, can take it freely! :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Eden these are not for you lol these are for salvation eternity, keep on scrolling back to the other page to see my full 9 post reply to you.. :) Ok... My friend, I agree man on his own cannot and will not be able to save himself, this is why God is drawing all men and giving them a free gift, just two simple choices.. repent or hell, accept salvation or perish, obey or disobey ext.. well you get the point. God's free gift of salvation is something amazing! He is AWESOME! :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Friend, I do not believe God draws all men, the reason being it is not in scripture, and it makes no sense logically.
""No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
(John 6:44)
See, the man God draws, He will also raise up. The text does not say, "and I MIGHT raise him up", it says, "I WILL raise him up".
Meaning 100%, the man the Father draws, He WILL raise up (raise up meaning salvation)
...(cont 1)
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
(cont 1)....
Therefore if any men that are drawn will eventually be saved, how can all men be drawn?
x drawn = x saved
all drawn = all saved
If all men are drawn, all men will get raised up and come to Christ, and what you get is universalism, a heresy saying all men will eventually be saved.
Now I'd like to comment briefly on God creating "some for heaven, some for hell"....
... (cont 2)
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
(cont 2)....
I believe God creates man, and He does give them a choice. But because men is depraved, He will always choose to run far from God, and be condemned. God did not cause this, God did not stir up unbelief, it was their unbelief and hardened heart. But God has ordained these men to exist.
God does not in any way shape or form cause men to sin, nor is He the author of sin, but He has ordained all events in place, and yes, even condemnation of people.
Consider:
...(cont 3)
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
lol...whatever you said to me, didn't show up as a response to me in my comments. If I hadn't came here I'd have no idea you answered...so I'll have to find where the response to me starts. I'm so confused as to which one of us you are talking to in most of those comments...LOL stupid YT.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
but...anyhow, I'm going to sleep...I'll figure it out tomorrow (or next time I get some time...I haven't been getting on the computer as often as usual lately...) and once I figure out the comment order and I'm not half asleep I'll answer. But thanks for the answers.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
I Know what you mean... the same is happening to me, I have had to simply come on the page and look for them because YT is not reporting any comments.. lol Dont worry sister, go rest and have a great weekend! :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
it's sure is annoying. lol and half the time my comments don't even go through.
i THINK i figured out the comment order. if not,. then i'm gonna end up in a conversation not meant for me.
but right now, i'm sleepy. i went to bed too late, and got up too early...I started to comment, and decided it's best i don't. making an idiot of myself doesn't seem fun. so i'll work on it when i feel like it. lol
(honestly, i should go to bed now. i'm just too stubborn to-or stupid to?-. LOL)
innocenceagain 2 years ago
I just wanted to say again that this is not a you vs. me argument... I love you in Christ and I have learned alot from you and hope you from me and bottom line God gets all the glory because he is mighty! Let's just say that God is AWESOME! :) :) :) :) :) :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
God is awesome and is working throught you Tali. May God give you more strength and wisdom to contend for the faith and live obedient unto the Lord.
AaronM144000 2 years ago
Conclusion, I am not perfect, compare and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, it was awesome to have an online bible study with you!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
The bible does teach depravity, but it doesnt teach inability. As an example: Revelation 22:17, the last invitation in the Bible, says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely ." They can take the water of life freely. Romans 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. He show's mercy to all. The End! :) Praise God! :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
response 7: The bible does teach depravity, but it doesnt teach inability. As an example: Revelation 22:17, the last invitation in the Bible, says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely ." They can take the water of life freely. Notice, they can take... God is giving them a choice, because he is letting them Take Freely Continued in response 8
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
It is not a choice that we earned, worked, deserve ext it is a limited choice. Its called freewill as a name but just like the reformed faith is called Calvinism. Its only 2 choices, its 2 choices Obey or Disobey, Repent or Dont Repent, Hot or Cold in revelations, because there is no grey areas in Christ. If you are grey, either hot or cold, you get vomited as revelations says, either you are obedient and repent or disobey and perish.
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
There is a balance Eden, and as we can see in Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. There is a foreknowledge of God, God knows who will and who wont, nothing surprises God, but we cant blame God for our actions. We have a choice. continued in response 6
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Remember in Matthew 25:41 41 Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Eternal fire was prepared for the devils and his angels. If what most say that God made certain men for hell and certain men for heaven is true, then why wouldnt it say God prepared eternal fire for the devil, angels and those who I have decided on not allowing them a chance at being obedient. Continued in response #5
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
In this verse we can see that God has predestined things, but he did it based on his foreknowledge. God knows who will or wont choose him. God calls those who he knows will choose him Elect and those who he wont, he will send them to hell. However, it doesnt mean that those who will go to hell didnt have a choice. Continued in response #4 LOL this is taking long huh?
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
These verses at no point however indicate that man cannot choose God. I mean, we can assume it means that... but in none of them does it say we do not have a choice to choose to obey or disobey. I want you to take a look at this: Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. Please read this bible verse again, and the key word is foreknowledge. Continued in response #3
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
sorry this took me so long...lol i've been busy, and sorta behind on sleep, still sorta am, so who knows how much sense this is gonna make.lol I'm still sorta confused as to which posts where to me and which were to SalvationEternity777 but I'll try to respond to some stuff you said anyways. lol
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Acts 2:23, basically God not only knew it was going to happen, He decided that it should happen for the Salvation of His people. Things that God knows are going to happen can be done because God first wanted (and knew) it was going to happen. God knew Judas was going to betray Jesus. He knew that Jesus was to be crucified. It was part of the plan
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Are you saying that God's entire soveringn plan is based on the actions of men and He based it on our own free will before we were even born...but since He based it on our free will before we made the free will choice, He doesn't have to sit and wait on us to make the choices after we make them to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't?
innocenceagain 2 years ago
You are right that hell was made for the devil/fallen angels BUT it is clear the wicked men will go there. People try to say people choose hell, and the reason people say this (maybe they don't even realize that this is what they are implying) is because if the people in hell made the CHOICE to be there, the 'blame' if off God...and we want God to be a loving God who gives everyone 50 million chances every day to repent and not a God who just throws the wicked into hell.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
But it is mercy we all aren't in hell this very second. It's mercy we didn't get thrown into hell the very second we sinned the first time. NO ONE would chose to go to hell. If we could see hell right now, it would scare us AWAY from hell, and we would be crying for mercy. On the other hand, because we are so sinful we won't chose God either. See the problem in men choosing? That's why I don't think we choose on this.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
It's true that we can't blame God for our actions. But I don't believe God bases Salvation on foreknowledge. Is unbelief a sin? God doesn't save us based on ANYTHING we do. And if He just looked ahead to see who would want to accept Him, then He is basing Salvation on works by giving it to those who will not commit the sin of unbelief. (and btw, none of us would chose God in the first place, so all of us would go to hell).
innocenceagain 2 years ago
The problem with the depraved but not inable thing is, man is spiritually DEAD. not spiritually sick (in that we are affected by sin greatly but not so much so that we can't be good).
innocenceagain 2 years ago
The fact that the Bible says we don't seek God means we are inable to come to Him. If you seek you will find, but you cannot seek Him without God calling you. Without the power of God you are inable to chose God over sin. Not just salvation, but EVERYTHING spiritual is a gift from God, including faith (Eph. 2:8) and repentence (Acts 5:31).
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Sorry that was so long. lol Nice to discuss these things.
God bless!
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Sister.... so basically, just to compress all of our 1,000,000,000,000 posts lol You and I are in agreement except on weather salvation is available to all or not right? Then if thats the case..... Let's just pray for each other.. let's continue to learn from each other.. :0) I was thinking of one thing today and maybe you could help. You know how it says, many are called but few are chosen. If man cannot reject God's call, then they were all who were called chosen but only some?
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
lol, okay.
As for your question...yeah, many are called, it's the universal command that people repent and believe and trust in Christ...but people can't do that nor want to do that. the 'few who are chosen" are the ones who actually respond to the call, and they only respond cause they are elect.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
"And if He just looked ahead to see who would want to accept Him, then He is basing Salvation on works by giving it to those who will not commit the sin of unbelief."
Eden, this is an excellent point! Wow! I'm impressed with your knowledge again!
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Amen Karen! Your Daughter is Very Gifted! :) Hey did you see my new minny chihuahua! Pass on by and check it out... on my hunt for a chihuahua... it weights less than a pound
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
So what happened here sister? I do not mean to start another argument, but me and Tali were talking and I want to know what is up. :)
MultiArchangel 2 years ago
MultiArchangel,
I'm a Calvinist. And because of this, I have been labeled as a heretic. I don't think that's right. But others do, so....I've lost a lot of friends because of it. But that's okay...I've dealt with it and God has soothed my heart and lessened the pain. I have assurance in Him and in His Word. I'm not a heretic, but others still think so.
CONT>
KarensFaith 2 years ago 2
Oh well...I guess one day we will see, won't we? I am secure in my Savior and I don't really care what others think of my being a Calvinist anymore. I do not worship John Calvin. I respect him very much. But he is not God and he did not write the Bible, God did. But Calvin got a lot of it right. And I agree with him on some things. I am a Reformed Baptist. In my long absence while I was offline, I took a lot of time dealing with this and almost didn't come back...
CONT>
KarensFaith 2 years ago 2
But this is where God wants me and He's given me the strength and courage to do what He wants me to do. I am NOTHING in the scheme of all things and He is EVERYTHING. That's what's important. I must decrease and He must increase. I must die to self and let Him live in me and use me for His purposes and that is all that matters to me. I've learned a lot while I was gone and I'm still learning. Yeah, it still hurts, but it's easier to bear because the Lord has calmed me and and comforted me. :)
KarensFaith 2 years ago 2
I believe His Word and what He says in it. I don't have a problem with what He says. I trust in Him and all of my faith is in Him and I've learned that losing friends is just a part of the sacrifice I have to make to follow Him. It still hurts, but He makes it easier. :) God bless you for asking and not just assuming. I appreciate that. Take care!
KarensFaith 2 years ago 2
1st Response: Let me start saying I do believe in Total Depravity, although the term is not in the Bible, in Jeremiah 17:9 it says: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked." This simply means, we have no way to work or earn salvation. This is why Christ is giving it to mankind as a free gift. All of the Bible verses you posted simply re-afirm that we are not capable of working our way towards salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God continued in response # 2
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Brother, total depravity is not just that mankind can earn salvation. But it's that man is dead in sin. Consider these verses:
"Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."
(John 8:34)
"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, "
(Eph 2:1)
Dead in sin, is literal. It is not just poetry. Men being dead in sin means exactly that.
....(cont 1)
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
Ok, cool, I thank you for these bible verses. Please note my English is not good, I am Puerto Rican! However it might take me like 8 or 9 posts to answer my thoughts. Hopefully both of us can learn from each other because we are a family in Christ. ;) This is not a I am right vs. You are wrong, I consider this like Bible Study online via youtube!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
(cont 1)...
.. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' ""
(Ezekiel 37:2-6)
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
I'd like to post a scripture from Ezekiel just for kicks.
"He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. He asked me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" I said, "O Sovereign LORD, you alone know." Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life.
..cont1
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
It does break my heart to see that Calvinist believe that we don't believe in 100 percent grace. We do, it is not of us. God has given us free will, so to act and make choices in that free will, is not works, as some would say.
If I believe as the Calvinist do, then how can I know if I am chosen? How will I know in this life if I am one who God has called? There is no assurance for those who are Calvinist because they don't know if they are chosen with any certainity.
God bless Tali,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Believe me, as someone who hasn't always been a Calvinist, and someone who has read comments like yours it seems like hundreds of times, we don't think you deny grace. No one ever said you denied grace. What it seems you deny is that it is GOD and GOD alone who chooses. God is not dependent on the choices of men. Only the elect have that grace.
And I know I am saved. I don't think I'm more saved than I was before I was a Calvinist. Now I just understand WHY I am saved better. :)
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Hey i'm a five pointer!
SAUNDERSacts2618 2 years ago
Thats good man! ;) I consider you my brother.. :) God Bless! :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Thanks Tali,we are all brothers if we are born again.
SAUNDERSacts2618 2 years ago
These are just for comfort, sisters Karen and your daughter.. just praise God. Put on some worship Music and dont allow the enemy to steal your joy. A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.Prov 17:17 "Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called."
1 Timothy 6:12 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6 PRAISE GOD! ;)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Again Proverbs 1:24-26 says,
"Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh."
He calls and some refuse... :)
I can post bible verses and you can posts bible verses but right now... I dont want to argue... I love you guys and I dont want frustration... just pray for me and I will for you.. :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
I don't want to argue either. I'm just really defensive because I see how badly this video has torn my mom. I don't like it when she feels like this.
I love you too...I don't want to argue. I'll pray for you. Thanks for praying. :) My only point is, we want all these anti-Calvinism videos that can't biblically refute us to end. All it causes is needless drama. Even though, I'm sure that probably wasn't your intention. It's what happened...
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Romans 11:32 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. Here my great sister... it says that God has mercy on us all... the keyword here is all....
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb. 2:9) Here we see that he tasted death for every man, keyword here is every man..
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Great verses, brother! Very well put! God is great!
MavericKLongRange 2 years ago
Tali, Romans 11:32 is speaking of 'all' meaning Jews and Gentiles. "all" without distinction, not "all" without exception. You should know this by now.
Heb. 2:9 is referring to everyone who will believe.(Heb. 9:15,28; 10:39) And I know you are going to say, "IT SAYS EVERY MAN". Well I could say, it excludes women. Could I not? Once again, context my friend. ;)
Haukman66 2 years ago
Hey bro! ;) Ok... so in every verse I provide the word "All" doesnt mean all, the word "Word" doesnt mean world, the word "whoever" doesnt mean whoever... :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Comment removed
Haukman66 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tali, Heb. 2:9, is best understood to refer to everyone of Christs people, everyone who is redeemed. It does not say 'everyone in the world'. In the context, the author is speaking of those who are redeemed i.e. verse 10-Bringing many sons to glory, verse 11- those who are sanctified, and verse 13- the children God has given me. And the greek word pas, here translated 'everyone', is also used in a similar sense to mean "All of Gods people" in Heb. 8:11.
Haukman66 2 years ago
Its called the context my friend, the context. In John 7:4 Jesus' brothers told Him to 'show yourself to the world'. Did this mean the WHOLE WORLD? Or to the people at the feast of booths? I think the latter would be the choice. What about John 12:19? Look, the WORLD has gone after Him. Did the whole world go after Jesus? I think not. Once again, context!! ;)
Haukman66 2 years ago
Beautiful job Tali God bless you
MLove4Christ 2 years ago
Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Grace is a gift from God. Faith is our choice. Our freewill. We chose to accept or reject.
MLove4Christ 2 years ago
lol this guy has poison in his mind and the poison likes to spread.
Runelegit 2 years ago
The thief on the cross believed, because he was 'enabled' to believe. Acts 13:48. Look at John 10:25-30. Why did some not believe? Because they are not His sheep. John 6:40, notice it is the will of God , not man.
Acts 16- where does that faith come from? Eph. 2:8.9 says is comes from God.
John 12"32- means all kinds of people, Jews and Gentiles, not everyone who ever lived.
Romans 10- whoever calls on the name of God...well who will? Those who whom the Father gives Him. John 6:37-39
Haukman66 2 years ago
Tali,
You are taking Proverbs chp 1 out of context.
Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom shouts in the street, ***SHE*** lifts her voice in the square;
In this chapter, "wisdom" is personified and speaks in the first person. This is poetic language.
Isaiah 42:2 He (Christ) shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
DefendingTheTruth 2 years ago
Now that I have really proven whose daughter I am by showing I inherited talking a LOT...I'll shut up for now. :p
(and mom tells me *I* talk to much, btw. all the time. :p Love ya, mom. :p)
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Hey! I never talk too much! Really! LOL!!! Okay, okay, but you talk more than I do! I can never get a word in because you be quiet long enough to take a breath and let me speak! hehehehe.....mess with me! Hehe!!!
Love you too. :)
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Now, I'm more into the Calvinist doctrine, but these are good points & verses you raised. Regardless of doctrine, I always consider you to be a true brother because you seek the Spirit in all your dealings with people, Tali. Great job & beautiful vid as always!
fruitofspirit 2 years ago
Ifd this were not so, why did John the baptist say Jesus takes away the sins of the world? Jesus daid John was a prophet. Can a prophet of God speak false gospel. Nope. The sacrifice is applied to those who are saved, but His sacrifice was for all man. Just because we do not know who will be saved, nor did John, does not mean God did not make it for all. Jesus was the light of the world, not the light of the neighborhood.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
This is a perfect example.! Thanks bro!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Christ died for everyhone in the world, but the sacrifice only applies to those whom are saved. John the baptists said jesus takes away the sins of the world, not the sins of certain people. That means Christ died for mankind. But it does not mean that the sacrifice pays for the sins of everyone, only those who are saved.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
The Elect are whoever will; the non-Elect are whoever won't!
msb0000 2 years ago
Tali....
All men can't be saved because no man comes to Christ on his own and we have to be drawn to Him, and if He drew us ALL to Him, no one would go to hell.
I'm not trying to 'start something'; you know I love and respect you as my brother in Christ, but I have a few questions:
Did Jesus come to save, or make us saveable? If Jesus paid the penalty for all, then why would anyone go to hell? If Jesus paid the penalty for even the people going to hell, is the penalty paid twice?
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
It also seems to me that unlimited atonement implies the death of Jesus isn't sufficient, but that my choice has to be added into the equation: the blood of Jesus+my freewill choice.
All I mean is, if Jesus came to save all men, all men WOULD be saved. If Jesus died to save all men and just ONE person goes to hell, that would mean Jesus failed.
That's why I believe He died only for the elect. :)
In Christ,
Eden
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Eden, very good questions. You made me proud. You asked them better than I would have asked them.
Jesus died only for those who would be His. For if He died for everyone, as you said, they would all be saved.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
"Free-will doctrine—what does it? It magnifies man into God. It declares Gods purposes a nullity, since they cannot? be carried out unless men are willing. It makes Gods will a waiting servant to the will of man, and the whole covenant of grace dependent on human action. Denying election on the ground of injustice, it holds God to be a debtor to sinners."
~Charles Haddon Spurgeon
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Sister Karen! ;) How is it going sister.. check out my Thunderstorm survival Video! lol :) What Charles Haddon Spurgeon wrote is awesome... but you and I both can agree that its not in the word.. its his belief on it.. I think the fact that God grants us, the opportunity to obey or disobey, shows how Glorious, and powerful he is... its not that we are God, contrary, if God wouldnt grant it in the first place, we wouldnt have it. Did you watch part 2... please check it out ;O)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali,
I cannot agree. Do you honestly think that I would post something unbiblical? Tali, you made your video stating your beliefs and I stated mine in it's comments. I used Spurgeon because he says it so well. I did watch part 2. I still don't agree. The way I believed was NEVER a problem until Monica made her video and now Calvinists are the bane of Christianity. I'm getting REALLY tired of YouTube. Seriously.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Mankind is evil. We are God's enemies until we are saved. We would NEVER choose God of our own freewill. We are dead in sin, meaning our spiritual condition is dead, we would not choose God. When God, in His grace alone, draws us to Him, He regenerates us and gives us the faith to believe in Christ alone as He is revealed to us in God's Word and then we are saved.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
And the glory goes to God alone. There is no choice for man. When God reveals Himself to man for salvation, that man is going to believe and be saved. He does the choosing Tali, not us. His death WAS sufficient for all, but efficient only for His elect. He died for only those who ever believed, who do believe, and those who have not yet believed but will.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Only those Tali. Only the elect and the elect are Christians BOTH Calvinist and Non-Calvinist. I know you said you believe we are Christians and I am glad to hear you say that, but there are many who do not think that. To them we are worst than atheists. I know this because I have had to deal with them EVERY SINGLE DAY since TicToc made that video. EVERY DAY, Tali. And I am getting tired of it real fast!
KarensFaith 2 years ago
People who were my friends, Tali, now hate me for my faith. I found out that I had a lot of "fair weather friends." It cuts deep and it hurts! I don't even know who to trust anymore.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
But God has given me more friends through this whole ordeal and actually, to be honest, I have more friends than I did before. God's mercies are new every day and I am so grateful for that, because a lot of Christians on YouTube have no mercy! I know I've not been nice to some of them, but they came at me first and I will defend my faith. You know this already, that I will. You of all people know this.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
I know John 3:16 says "the world" but that doesn't mean every one, it means the elect, and you are one of His elect, Tali, it means those who are His in each and every nation, He saves some from each nation in the world. If the whole world can be saved, they would be, because once you are drawn to God by His grace and the faith that He gives you, you will not choose to not believe.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
I know.... I know its hard.. just keep on Trusting Jesus.. thats all I ask of you.... forget about anyone else... just trust him.. and once you keee p on trusting him like I know you always do because you are an awesome sister.. everything else is going to work out 100% You watch!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Sister... don't worry about it... :) We used to get it worse when we were dealing with Wiccans, pagans and witches and we never got this frustrated... and that was hard because they are unbelievers.... we are believers... so don't let it get you down. God is going to you use here on Youtube !
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, actually, for me, dealing with Wiccans, pagans and witches is EASIER to deal with because I know where I stand with them...they hate my guts and they don't hesitate to let me know it! O,o But this, this is worse. Why, because we are SUPPOSED to be a family. I could see this happening if the Reformed faith was like, say, Catholicism, or the Emergent Church or even those who believe in Oneness theology that denies the Trinity. But it isn't.
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
I'm used to being persecuted by wiccans, pagans, atheists and witches. But now the people of our own family in Christ are the ones doing the persecuting! That should NEVER be! You said God is going to use me on YouTube. Tell me, Tali, after all this MESS against Calvinists, how many people are going to listen to us preach and teach the Gospel now? There are many souls left to win, how can we be effective in winning them now? Yes, the ones God has chosen will be saved, praise God!
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
And He WILL save all those who are chosen, but we are to win them to Him and now.......
I do have faith and I know that they will be saved no matter who He chooses to witness to them. Thank God it's not left to our own devices. But a lot of us have now lost credibility. So....yes, God will use me whether it's here on YT or somewhere else and I will serve Him in whatever way He wants me to.
KarensFaith 2 years ago 2
And even though we will go on to serve Him in whatever way He sees fit, there are those of us who will be hurt by this in many different ways. This is not a guilt trip, nor do I or any of us want anyone's pity. I just want you guys to look at it from our perspective so that maybe you will understand better where we are coming from.
God is all-powerful and nothing that happens to us doesn't happen to us until it has passed through His hand. He WILL use this for His glory! Just wait and see. :)
KarensFaith 2 years ago 2
I know sister... it cannot be easy... I know. I also want to give you a flip side of the coin here.. I have about 3 or 4 no lie, calvinist friends who have not been the same with me... Have I done something to them? nope... not at all..but they wont reply to my several attempts at emails... they dont reply to anything, just cut me off like nothing but neither I or You can do anything about that. All you and I can do is continue to preach..... does it hurt.. Yeah! But God comes first
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, 3 or 4 is really not that bad compared to my loss, but even still, it should never have happened to any of us and we are not the ones that set it off. How can any of you believe a woman just on her word alone? How can you not take what we believe, get your Bible and try to find out where the Reformed faith is wrong. I did this Tali, I took their doctrines and I went to my Bible and to disprove it and I couldn't. It is ALL Biblical.
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
A lot of US have lost MORE than 3 or 4 friends and some of them weren't nice about it. How many times have you gone to read comments left on your channel and someone has left you a comment that denounces you as a heretic? And Tali, you did NOT answer my questions. You know me well enough to know that I want the answers from YOU. I am not angry. I think that I deserve to have the answers from you.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
You didn't do anything to anybody? Well...neither did I, as a matter of fact NONE of the Calvinists did anything to anybody. It was NOT a Calvinist that started this, it was one of you who are not Calvinist. What? We were supposed to let her comments and accusations in her videos go unchallenged?
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Monica KNEW what she was doing and her reasons weren't innocent. She accused the brethren falsely, and who is the accuser of the brethren before God, Tali? Satan is!!! She called for all of you to put us out of the church until we repent of Calvinism and you all did exactly that! Is she suddenly God, Tali?! Shunning us and putting us out of the Church because our theology is a little different from hers? And then she cut us off so that we couldn't even defend ourselves!
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Tell me, Tali, is what she did Biblical? And did you even search the Scriptures to see if what she said is true and in God's will? Apparently not, since you agree with her. Tali, we have learned a valuable lesson here. When you accuse the brethren falsely you DIVIDE them and we are NOT supposed to do that! LOOK at the damage done. Have you seen the comments left on your all's videos from atheists? They are LAUGHING at you guys. They didn't do it this time, you did it for them!
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
And God is being mocked by them because of all of this! And don't blame us for it. We didn't start this. All we have done in return is defend the faith. And I have yet to see one Calvinist use deception and lies to prove our point. But some of you guys have. It's disgraceful!
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Most definitely God comes first. That's what we have been telling you guys for the last two months! We seek to glorify God and you all seek to glorify your own freewill. Fine....God is POWERLESS to save you unless YOU let Him. If that's the kind of "God" you want....okay. But our God, Jehovah, Almighty God who is Sovereign over EVERYTHING and He IS Mighty to SAVE us without our help! He is MIGHTY TO SAVE, Tali!
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Isaiah 63:1 "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save." (NASB)
KarensFaith 2 years ago
One more thing....I think whoever is thumbing down our comments is childish and proving my point about your all's attitudes.
Actions speak louder than words.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
My dear sister, "Apparently not, since you agree with her" What has happened.. :( :( I dont get this... not one bit. Did the lord not put the message "How would Jesus Treat A Calvinist " in my heart after that message. I am praying for you, you are not the same Karen I know... I know that something must have hurt you bad, and if it was me.. let me know, but if it wasn't then I shouldnt be treated like this and much less by you.. .:(
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, you agree with her that we are wrong. Yes, your video about how God should treat us was great, and you must remember this....I am not only speaking to you hear but to ALL of you. And yes, I am hurt. I am very hurt. We all are. The ones we have loved have turned on us and video after video is being made against our faith. Tali, that hurts us because for us, Jesus Christ is our LIFE. All we do, we do to serve HIM and HIM alone.
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
We believe He is a Sovereign God, in control of everything and we are called heretics because of this. Our witness is being destroyed by EVERY SINGLE VIDEO that is made saying we are wrong. Our credibility slips because people just believe what is told to them and don't seek out the truth about us. I never thought I'd ever see the day that the ones I have loved the most.....my CHRISTIAN family on YT would turn against me because I believe in God the way I do and I believe HE gets the glory.
CONT
KarensFaith 2 years ago
And because I believe He gets the glory and none for myself I am a heretic. Tell me, Tali....how would it feel if I said you were a heretic just because you believe your own freewill saved you? Wouldn't that hurt you? I didn't do anything except serve my God in the way He tells me to. And I am a heretic. And yes, I'm hurt. I'm not any different than I ever was. I am not the one who changed. I am standing firm in my faith. I will not be moved. I am not the one who moved.
CONT.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
And Tali, you still haven't answered my questions, or Zach's or Eden's. We're still waiting. If you can't answer them, then perhaps you shouldn't have made this video.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Sister.. once again I tell you... let all your worries, fears, doubts and concerns go and let God take care of it. Forget about what people say. People said i would be in Jail, Dead or still drug dealing... if I would have listened to them, wheere would I be... You are taking this way too serious and way too personal.... This is not a You vs. Them... not at all... we are one body washed by a precious blood of the lamb. Drop down that defense and let the lord give you that peace that you need
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, once again I tell you...I do let my worries, fears, doubts and concerns go and let God take care of it. TRUST ME...if I did what I wanted to do, it wouldn't be pretty. And you know it! I know your past, that has nothing to do with this. This is the here and now and we have been WRONGED BY YOU AND YOUR NON-CALVINIST FRIENDS and we don't have to take that and we aren't. We are called to defend the faith and to guard what God has given us and we are doing that.
CONT
KarensFaith 2 years ago
I'm taking it too serious and too personal? Are you kidding me, Tali? Of course I am taking it seriously and personally. I HAVE BEEN CALLED A HERETIC!!! And I'm just supposed to shrug that off? It's different if the one calling us this weren't our own brethren! But it is and I hope you guys are satisfied with it.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
What good came out of this Tali? That if you're Reformed you're going to hell. Yeah....I take it seriously and personally. Sheesh! I have not said me vs them. It is US vs. YOU! When my brothers and sisters in Christ hurt, I HURT with them. And you should too! I can't believe you even said that! I am appealing to you because we are friends, because we are friends and I guess I was wrong to try to show you how all us Calvinists feel. Another lesson learned.
CONT.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
When we are treated like a part of the family then we will be. What is wrong is that you guys just won't let up! It's everyday for us Tali, every day! And we are comforting each other and we cry together and we love each other and so far it is only us who love us in the family. Yes, you can believe that, but you won't let us believe the way we believe. If you did, then you would NOT have made this video. I am not letting this come between us, but I won't let you come between me and God.
CONT
KarensFaith 2 years ago
It is US vs. YOU! Sister... I have nothing but the upmost respect for you.... this is why I am telling you, just dont worry about it..... keep the focus on the lord. He deserves it ;) Weather its us vs them or us vs. you, its wrong... and its not biblical... not at all, God does not want the division that denominations bring... he wants one body and I know, I know that we will got get it right some day. Until then, let's just chill.. I LOVE YOU IN CHRIST! ;) You are a special sister!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, why did you make this video? What did you expect the result to be? How many Calvinists posted here with hopes of someone actually LISTENING to one of us? Not many. Why? Because we are giving up hope in those of you who just keep it going. And you did keep it going. :( And now you have the result. All your other friends are slapping you on the back congratulating you for taking on the evil Calvinists and our comments get thumbed down and ignored. Yeah....it worked out well for you, not us.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Sister.. no one is slapping me on the back... I am not here for it... and The calvinists who have come... like Hauck.. we ended up being friends.. :) I still dont get it..:) LIke I said and will continue to say.... I love all of you... and I have no problem. with any of you. Never have, never will.. I haven't meet one calvinist that I dont get along with.... You stay strong sister and God Bless... Looking forward to your next Fallen Series Video! ;) Tali
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Sister... Christ never told you, that you wouldnt ever be called any names... I say this again... "I HAVE BEEN CALLED A HERETIC!!!" By whom? I want names? besides Monica Denington and I will and let them know and we will all 3 just have a nice conversation and hash it out... I see alot of anger... and that is not of God. Do you want me to do this, just us 3 or 4, I can set up a conference room and like a family in Christ, we can talk about it.. and just praise our LORD.. :) HE is mighty!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
"WRONGED BY YOU AND YOUR NON-CALVINIST FRIENDS" :( :( How, because I made a message that the lord gave me, which I clearly indicated to all to compare with scriptures which indicate that salvation is available to all. Come on sister Karen.. whats wrong? So I can't believe that salvation is available to all and be your brother in Christ... well anyhow... you have a blessed day... remember we have been friends since I had 2 subs... lol Are you going to let this come in between?
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Well sister, I have prayed and God is telling me to just leave it up to him. I just pray that you are well. If you ever need anything just PM me.... I am here for you, always have, always will, you are my sister.... and we are one body... no us, them, and stuff... God Bless and I love you guys! :) BTW, tell your husband Happy Fathers Day, I emailed you but I dont think you got it because you didnt reply... tell him "Whats Up" lol :) Have a great night!
Tali
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
We are one body? Really? Perhaps you should make a video about that. Because we've been shunned by most everyone here who is not Reformed. You don't treat family the way we have been treated. And I am trusting in God. I seek His will in everything I do. When we are treated like we are family with the Non-Calvinists then we'll be family. Until then the only family we've had is each other in our Reformed faith and Tali, we've all been wronged and we're hurt.
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
So for now, for us, we are a family and we love each other, we Reformed brothers and sisters do. And we are trusting in God to get us through this. You don't know how weary we are. How tired we are of having a new hurt each time a video against our faith is put up.
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
It was fine to be Reformed BEFORE Monica's video, but now we are suddenly reviled and did you take Monica's teaching and hold it up to Scripture? If you did, you would have known she was wrong and so are you.
I'm sorry Tali, I will not deny my faith in Christ for anybody. Not even you.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
"I'm sorry Tali, I will not deny my faith in Christ for anybody. Not even you" Dear sister Karen... my bestest friend.. ever... Have I ever asked you to do that? Have I? I never have... I honestly believe you should right now go and pray and worship. I am sure it will make you feel bettter.. Take a time out and chilll, its not easy being on Youtube.. its not... but please relax, drop down your defensive guard... its not a Us vs. them... we are one body... Stay strong sister..
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali,
These videos have made all of us, not just me, feel like we've been banished. And for some, we have been. I am not talking about just you and me, it's the others. You were the one person I thought maybe would really listen to me. I asked you questions. You have not answered them. That tells me things that I never wanted to know or feel. :( We are not one body until you guys let us back in the family. For now, it seems we only have each other. :( :( :(
KarensFaith 2 years ago
We are not one body until you guys let us back in the family.
Sister... what are you talking about.. :) Dude, you have been and still are... who said you are not? Please I want names? Besides monica denington... who has said that you are not in the body... tell me and I will go right now and let them know... lol :)
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
No, no names. I just want it to be over. Naming names will just lead to more fighting, more accusations, more VIDEOS, you have watched the videos you guys have put up, you know who calls me a heretic. I've always had your back, Tali. But you didn't have mine this time. :(
CONT
KarensFaith 2 years ago
I asked you on one of the other videos to wait until I could get the proof that the video maker was being deceptive and you said you would. Well, I gave you proof and the man who was falsely accused by your friend's video had to make a video to clear his good name! and he did. I personally transcribed that man's comments and put it on the video. And yet, with the evidence IN YOUR FACE you still believed your friend over it. THAT HURT BADLY!
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
You kept silent and you didn't say a word. And I feel like you think I lied about it. What else was I suppose to think or feel. I didn't lie. I never have. And we proved he lied and you kept silent and now he is slapping you on the back for your awesome video about how wrong we are and nothing is said to him about how wrong he was. THAT IS WHAT HURT! And so, I'm still a heretic to most non-Calvinists.
CONTINUED
KarensFaith 2 years ago
And those who stood against me are now on your friend's list. Okay....I'm happy for you. I really am. Your channel's grown a lot the last few months. You worked hard, Tali. And so have I, faced with a LOT of stuff this year, and here I am, and I stand behind my faith and my Savior who comforts me and that's all that matters to me anymore.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Amen! Just keep the focus on Christ and keep doing what God called you for!
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, this may just be 'just youtube'. But just 'youtube' can be a huge deal. Actually, this whole disagreement may actually be more harmful BECAUSE it's on the internet. The internet is like a public record...if I say something to you in person, it's my word against your word based on memory. If I post something on the internet, those comments are visible for all.
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
And public youtube comments show up on the video, in your youtube comment box, and your email and can be copied endlessly even if they are deleted off the main page. Videos can be seen by millions, and even if they are removed you do not know who has saved it on their computer. What's put on youtube stays on youtube, and if it doesn't, chances are it's still on the internet SOMEWHERE.
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
And this info is viewable to all. The Christians on YT are divided and there is a public record of it! How does this nonsense look to those who are athiests? It's shameful how ridiculous this has gotten. Man, I hate drama. How does this look to new Christians? It's stupid. And we didn't start it. Monica Dennignton sent me a friend invite, a LOT of Calvinists were on her friends list.
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Then she went and made those videos saying we were adding to the word of God and worshipping John Calvin and that we should either repent or not be included in fellowship. I'm not sure, but my guess is she added Calvinists because she wanted to be darn well sure we saw those videos. After that everyone and their dog decides to make videos against us. Yours, Tali, was the nicest I've seen. But it still was against Calvinism. What was the need for your video?
innocenceagain 2 years ago
{cont...from above}
Is what we are saying so heretical that it needed ANOTHER video devoted to it? And then after you made the video, you haven't answered all of our questions. I know you said you were at work or whatever...so maybe you're working on it? But I really want those answers. I wanted the answer to what someone else asked about whether or not God did 100% or whether we had any part of it. 2 people asked you that, Tali. And it isn't that complicated an answer. So please?
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
I just want you to think about what you're saying/implying.
All Mom is saying is that all these anti-Calvinism videos are getting old. and getting old FAST. You are one of her best friends. You may not realize it, but it seems to me that your video hurt her more than Monica's just because you are her friend. And because this video hurts my mother, it hurts me.
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Monica's video against Calvinist's hurt. And then you had to make one too. Why? I didn't care, nor did Mom care whether or not you are a Calvinist. Our beliefs are not heritcal nor a Salvation issue..yet you had to make a video during all this drama, and all this video did was divide us further. I hope that wasn't your intention, but that is what it has done.
{cont.}
innocenceagain 2 years ago
I don't question your Salvation, Tali,and even respect your belief... and while this is only my opinion and it is far from my place to tell you what to teach or put on your channel, I think we all would have appreciated if you had let the fire die before putting up this video.
innocenceagain 2 years ago
Mom is hurt because she gets it EVERY DAY from non-Calvinsts. It's ridiculous. The witches and atheists aren't half as draining to deal with. The channel's of some of her best friends was the LAST place she ever expected this sort of stuff. She's just really upset right now. So I don't think she's going to get back online tonight. :( She'll probably work on her videos later, even though the Fallen series is on hiatus, she is planning, I believe on a Calvinism video. :)
innocenceagain 2 years ago
I understand you mother is hurt.. its not easy.. and sister, I know its hard..but we have to learn not to take things so personal. Jesus Christ told us this would happen. This is nothing, the persecution levels in america will rise so high that we won't even be able to say a Praise the Lord... and we have to build resistance and tolerance and just continue to seek God regardless of who, what, where, when is talking about us... its not personal.. our enemy is Satan not arminians, calvinists ext.
Nephtali1981 2 years ago
Tali, I expect persecution against Christians by non-believers. I handle that everyday and it's just the way Jesus said it would be. BUT Jesus didn't tell us we had to endure persecution from our own family membersand that's what these videos are - a persecution of Christian Calvinists. This is not the type of persecution Jesus told us we'd endure.
CONT.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
Correction is fine, Tali, we are SUPPOSED to correct each other. But this...this has been a sort of "witch hunt" against us and even though we're used to that, and we are used to that, it still hurts to have it come from other Christians.
CONT.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
This is not correction. This is something I can't explain...it's an attack and I realize you didn't mean it to be that way and I appreciate that, but the other videos, the lying and deception used to make us look bad, the false accusations of saying we said God decrees child rape and that we worship John Calvin and that we Calvinists are the same type of "religion" that Islam is...I'm serious...there is a video stating that Islam and Calvinsm is the same thing.
CONT.
KarensFaith 2 years ago
These are ALL lies Tali. And I do appreciate the fact that you DID NOT lie. I only commented to see if you would listen to me and see it from our point of view. It never mattered before Monica's video that I was a Calvinist. It was OBVIOUS I was a Calvinist and even you asked me about it and you were fine with it, but now we are shunned and it hurts.
CONT.
I really hope you can see that & understand my point. We aren't supposed to persecute one another because we all are His.
KarensFaith 2 years ago