McWhorter on (Hip Hop) Music: All About The Beat

[sifstarr]

he looks so faggoty

[Sagefrakrobatik]

I think it all depends I dont think its an either or. For example listening to a gangster rapper brag about selling crack or other illlegal activities might inspire someone engage in the same behavior especially if its glamorized, however by the same token, I could see how someone like Canibus can inspire someone to take an interest in science because alot of his lyrics make refrences to physics biology, etc. It might not be a pancea for black america but to say it has no influence is ignorant.

[NowRenaissanceGroup]

Hip Hop is not the music hip hop is the culture. Just because the main stream decides to portray something a certain way does not make it so. As far as impact, dead prez gamed me to a healthier lifestyle and Jay-z's business drive inspired my own. These two things along with self determination help me to be a more productive member of the world. I am the hip hop generation and i am a better person because of it.

[ForChangeMovement]

@NowRenaissanceGroup Blaming the mainstream's portrayal always seemed meaningless to me. If a group like Dead Prez had a more universal appeal, they too would be mainstream. Unfortunately they do not. The business is about turning a profit not about messages. I'm sure the "mainstream" could care less. It's about green.

If you were inspired to do positive by these artists, then that is cool, but what about the people who all to often are inspired by the huge amounts of negatives within the music?

[Sagefrakrobatik]

@ForChangeMovement why is that? I wrote a paper on the hip hop media for one of my Communication class. It goes far beyond mainstream vs underground. The media profits off of rappers who portray stereotypes, drug dealers, gangsters, materialism, misogyn etc.

If you look through different hip hop mags for example your more likely to read articles on Lil wayne or T.I. criminal records, or Lil Kim's favorite brand names than you are to see imortal techniques political views....

[Sagefrakrobatik]

@ForChangeMovement I've tried to contact Radio One CEO Colby Colb to get their side of the debate but so far I havent heard anything back. I would just like to see more balance in how hip hop is portrayed. If you play Drake, Lil Wayne or Wacka Flocka Flame on the Radio why not throw on some MURS or K-Rhino as well. The "it doesnt sell" argument is bullshit to me. There is no empirical evidence to suggest underground rappers would sell less because they are given the same media exposure.

[Sagefrakrobatik]

@ForChangeMovement Then how do you explain songs like Nas's "I Can" Eminem's "Stan" and Black Eye Peas "Where is the love?" getting airplay? Why are these songs in particular put on the radio that have conscious messages

[ForChangeMovement]

@Sagefrakrobatik Neither Nas, Black Eyed Peas or Eminem are promoting conscious messages throughout an entire album. Plus, each of the songs you have noted here are all fairly catchy. And, I never said that good music couldnt have a positive message. In fact I think people would purchase positive messages if they were presented in a nice package. What I do believe is that this is not the norm.

The Artists who do this kind of material on the regular dont do it in such a way that it is as catchy.

[ForChangeMovement]

@Sagefrakrobatik Why they are put on the radio? Like I said before, they are catchy tunes done by artists who sell millions of records anyway. Dead Prez has had one or two semi-catchy tunes themselves, and those tunes were made into singles by their labels. Unfortunately, people didn't gravitate to those songs in huge numbers. Why? Cause Dead Prez didn't deliver the message in a way that was as universally appealing as Nas, Eminem, & Black eyed peas, obviously.

You cant blame media.

[BiggussDikkus]

..I thought uncle toms were supposed to be dark skinded.

He must be wearing pancake makeup.

[TerminatorX87]

Nigga who don't read books? I read books. Bitch i read yo' books, nigga, lol. (And the award for the most ignorant comment goes to.....)

[FloorOfTheForest]

Hip Hop has failed its people. I don't mean "except people like Commnon". I mean especially people like Common. Not enough rappers educate themselves past the Bible, the Kuran and black nationalist literature.

[thewiseone1990]

wat do u do McWhorter? besides telling the hip-hop world they aren't pro active what do you do to be proactive? dats what i wanna know?

[FightDPower]

No need to be proactive. I'm of mixed race, mostly white. I choose not to be proactive, because I don't need to be. I've never owned a slave, and neither did my great-grandparents. You were never a slave, for that matter, and neither were your great-grandparents.

I shouldn't be punished for the misdeeds of my ancestors, and you shouldn't be punished for the stupidity of yours. In today's world, with the appropriate natural intelligence, one can be great. Don't turn the clock back.

[Zsagegrouse]

The guy is right. Music helps society if it inspires people to be tangibly better people, study harder, work harder, keep the family in tact, save money, etc... If it doesn't do these things, it's just entertainment, recreation without a higher purpose. And, of course, it may inspire people to be worse human beings than they otherwise would be.

[Samphye]

He's rite & wrong. HipHop in its purest form is a cultural-political movement, which can inherently help ALL people see society through a diff. lens, especially through the eyes of ppl who have no voice. 1ce corporate America saw the power of this cultural political movement, they bastardized & drugged it by pushing the decontextualized negatives & downplaying positives. So he's rite 4 saying current HipHop can't help ppl but he doesn't know its pure form. In pure form it starts the dialog.

[mikelewchuk]

please, give us an example of its "pure form" since you profess so much knowledge.

[Samphye]

ur tone hints of haterism...LOL! now worries here are a few ex: GmF: The Message ("Don't Push me cause I'm...) Outkast: Everything TuPac: Everything XClan: Everything Paris: Everything NWA: Everything Ice-T: Colors Mos Def/Talib: Everything Common: Everything "It's Your World" PE: Everything ...the list goes on...guy, this exercise is ridiculous. Hip Hop was started as a cultural/political movement 4 those who weren't heard 2 b heard, "Ride of the Valkyries" was not created under such angst.

[mikelewchuk]

you didn't read the book did you? He tags virtually every artist you mention. You're right, the exercise is pointless. Repeating "cultural/political" without defining or clarifing those words renders your argument null.

PS - no hate, I love hip hop more than most. But what is its real value, other than entertainment?

[Samphye]

No. Reading the book is not necessary to refute his claims. IFF I take what U say is McWhorter's argument (HipHop is merely entertainment), then, again he's right & wrong. Meaningful info/learning that uplifts communities can be drawn from EVERYDAY worldly offerings: Art, disaster, world conflict, speeches, election-rigging, etc. By extension, HipHop has plenty to offer the black community through thought, discussion and eventually value-added action:

[Samphye]

examples: self-determination, inc. political acumen, intergenerational $ transfer, freedom, understanding of parental influence, etc. BPs can also reconcile/relate to the angst that forms the underpinnings of HipHop. "Defining/clarifying cultural..." GTFOH! That's public domain clown, & u're not marking a thesis, simple logic. U may hear, "F*ck the po-lice!" I hear, "there r fundamental problems in my comm., my home, with the laws that govern us, they're targeting us, I'm tired of it F*ck them!"

[eirefrance]

On the average, as a whole, McWhorter may be right, but hip-hop is a very broad cultural and artistic movement. I can find many hip-hop kids who present a positive image.

[manabower]

hiphop is not fucking rap. You happen to rap which comes from hiphop and can be hiphop. If he recognizes Outkast's genius then how come he doesn't know the majority of the shit out there AINT hiphop? Bottom line

[madchemist5926]

True (I'm an avid undergound hip-hop fan myself), but that has nothing to do with the point that Mr. Mcwhorter is trying to make, which is that Hip-Hop cannot and will not save Black America; That it might feel good to say that it will, but it cannot.

[manabower]

cool. Its good you not just dissin me cuz i'm passionate. I know it aint gonna save us, no matter how much I love it.

[CoyoteJaw9]

I like what the guy says about some things. I agree that conscious hip-hop's messages are often over simplistic and sometimes very manipulative.

But I also think that sometimes he goes way, way too far in the opposite direction.

It's all very complex and impossible for me to explain here but you can break it down like this: We All Need To Stop Taking Sides.

When we do that we can think clearly and see the complexities.