This is a problem, when one man's death is called a tragedy and a million is a statistic in our eyes. it is hard to even comprehend the amount of suffering that has befallen this world and yet people go on with their daily business. It seems like we are a self centered species, not one that values all as much as we'd like to think.
Excellent point, Sam. There are many "illusions" that are psychological in nature. Another example of one similar to this video is when someone is being mugged they are much more likely to receive help from a good Samaritan when there are fewer people around. It turns out that more people around make those who witness the mugging assume that someone else will help (and no need for them to intervene).
I also have to feel sorry for people who take Sam literally and don't get his message.
@Kurtlane You're kidding, right? Are you insulted because you took Sam's accusation of the collective to a very personal level. Sam is making a generalization here. I recommend you watch the video a few more times and think about it. I also notice that those who are more highly educated and are "life long learners" tend to get it better.
@Yahweigh : Thats not the point. We just cant cry for the holocaust. We can easily cry for individual sad little children killed by the nazis, but to cry over millions of lives lost: not happening.
Yes let's make laws to stop immorality, and pay for their enforcement through taxation backed by the threat of force. You know what happens when you decide not to pay taxes? You get raided by the IRS and taken off to jail, and if you continue to resist you kill shot and probably killed.
I'm sorry that his idea is so backwards, that it had to be confronted on moral grounds, because it's hard to face up to being immoral in any case. Even more sorry because he is trying to fight immorality.
Good thing the anonymity of the internet allows Oshiba88 to talk racist nonsense on youtube. We all know what would happen to him if he spoke like that in public (AKA the swift ass kicking). It's hard to believe there are people still as dumb and ignorant as Oshiba88 (Most of them are religious too). I can't wait till we get rid of jesus, islam and all other gods on this planet. The ranting lunatics have had enough time to spout their nonsense. It's time we got out of the dark ages.
@TheSasss1 Negros are savages- 2:40 nice to hear that there are 800.000 subhuman’s less on this planet, but unfortunately these Negros are breading more of there kind every day.
Oh btw you are a Negro yourself (wtf didn’t know that animals can use a pc) or self hating Negro lover.
@Oshiba88 Actually, the population problem in America is Hispanic and the threat of illegal immigration and in Europe it is the Islamic problem in the same context. You are simply an uneducated dolt, sadly. In fact, we are all from Africa as the human lineage originated in Africa; therefore, we are all Africans.
@Oshiba88 What "lesson of Haiti" ? Natural disasters happen, tectonic plate movement causes tremors? So? What does that have to do with race, or any human matter at all? Hell, there are on average 1000 earthquakes every YEAR. So ONE happens to negatively effect a country and you think that means something? Natural disasters happen to all people of all races, religions, locations. I guess the white christians in FL that got decimated by hurricane Andrew were "part negro" or something? idiot.
@Sanosukeafo Did you watched the 30 minutes video with the title "The Lesson of Haiti"?
I think after watching this video, researching it for yourself you would not be so stupid and listening to Sam Harris, trying to make you feel guilty for the miserable life of some Negros brats.
Yeah you smart ass earthquakes happen all over the world, but what you fail to realize is, that Haiti was already a Negro shithole. Did you know that Haiti was once a prosperous colony under French rule?
@Oshiba88 You're stupidity and irrational racism made you completely miss the point. Also, you seem to think that only countries with black people as a majority are poor? Are you out of you're fucking mind? Ever hear of Romania, Albania, Moldova, Ukraine, Macedonia, Serbia, Belarus, Yemen and Bulgaria? ALL are extremely poor, mainly Caucasian countries (Over 80%+ white). Sam's choice of picture has nothing to do with race. This effect is even applied in our own FAMILIES. Retard.
@Oshiba88 I deployed to Haiti for 6 months, I know first hand about it and don't need your fail video for anything on the subject. Also YOU COMPLETELY miss the point Sam is making, he's basically talking about the "Monkey Sphere", where our ape-brains have a max-amount of people that we CAN care about. We care MORE about 1 friend dying in a car wreck then 10000 people in another country getting genocided. Which logically doesn't make sense. It has NOTHING to do with race. Learn 2 read plox.
@MrCharlieSinclair : Yeah thats speculation. But we know religious morons held back stem-cell research for a decade, and actually they still hold it back. So what ever we learn in that field we can actually know that we would have achieved it years ago if superstition had no power anymore.
@MrCharlieSinclair : Yeah we did. And if we never had any organised religion we would have done it 300 years ago. Superstition holds us back so bad...
0:15 Our visual perception, though a marvel of evolution, is still pretty fucking retarded. As, apparently, is our moral judgment. Still waiting for that Human 2.0 upgrade.
Seems to be a Simple Cost Benefit Analysis , trying to help everyone will seem like an insurmountable goal, but perhaps helping a few seems more achievable. there are limitations, the human mind being a finite thing understands reality in a Finite way. We can't grasp the infinite suffering of millions via genocide with nothing but disbelief and shock, but one child suffering is easily understand;be, For Cost benefit reasons we evolved this way. As individuals we have finite resources
This is a huge moral failure of human beings to sit around and do nothing while people die, and yet people try to rationalize it. We are laughably stupid to justify evil, but then again, we're just stupid, period.
@l337pwnage How is that a resource failure? It doesn't follow from the fact that you can't save everyone that you shouldn't help a few. It's a psychological problem.
@Irrimor altruism = suicide, and that goes against most people's nature. When the chips are down, people tend to choose survival. The people that don't choose that, tend to not pass on those behaviors or genetic predispositions because, well, they're dead.
You're free to "help" all the people you wish, enjoy your poverty and self-righteousness.
@l337pwnage With the exception of the patronizing adhom comment, I think I agree with everything you said. But you're being descriptive and I was being normative. Nothing of what you said is even relevant.
@Irrimor well, I made it as simple as I can for you. Somehow you just do not understand that we live on a planet with limited resources and that inevitably affects the the behavior of the creatures that live here. Well, it affects the behavior of the ones that survive long enough to have offspring, but I don't even want to attempt to explain biological evolution to you.
@l337pwnage Again everything you're saying is unrelated to my comment. I absolutely understand we live on a planet with limited resources. I understand that "when the chips are down" people tend to behave very selfishly, and I understand how evolutionarily advantageous that is. If you are suggesting that has something to do with how we ought to behave, then it's the naturalistic fallacy straight out of the book. If not, it's not relevant.
@Irrimor The reason I try different permutations is to see if I can trip the light bulb off in your head. Often people need a keyword or idea from their own point of view in order to understand some concepts. And Objectivism is a difficult one.
Like most people, you confuse what is selfish and what is self interest. I speculate that you understand what I mean if I say, "being selfish is against your self interest."
If you take that statement and expand on that, maybe that will help you.
Sam - we see one child and are certain that that child is feeling fear, desperation, loneness, uncertainly, helplessness…. We see two children and those thoughts are mitigated a little by the fact that they at least have one another.... and so..
I do a lot of cycling and when I see a stranded cyclist I always stop to help. When I see two stranded cyclist I’ll slow down and ask “ok?” if I see a bunch of cyclist, I don’t even look twice.
@yvranx Maybe that's because your financial possibilities diminish with every person you want to help.The same amount of help given to a person diminishes as the number of help needing people grows.Maybe with the realization of this reality comes the understanding that you will never afford to help everyone.
Or maybe we just want to give the money so that we are no longer stressed with pictures of the suffering.A gesture to alleviate our psychic struggle....
@Torcika I doubt that this is a conscious decision. The situation presented seem to indicate that even half the money (for each of two children) would help, so why not at least give the original amount?
My layman explanation is that evolution would reward empathy towards single, implicitly better-known individuals, but would penalise resources spent for masses. Thus, empathy takes this weird turn.
Anyway, the point is that you can't rely on your empathy.
@yvranx A very interesting and thought provoking explanation.
I'm thinking now about a person and his/hers family.How the level of empathy diminishes when you go outside the family level.Shrinking to relatives,friends,even more to distant relatives,etc
@yvranx A very interesting and thought provoking explanation.
I'm thinking now about a person and his/hers family.How the level of empathy diminishes when you go outside the family level.Shrinking to relatives,friends,even more to distant relatives,etc
What's even weirder is that 31 people gave your comment a thumbs up. What even weirder is that Sam Harris thinks we think genocides are boring. Let's ask a sample of people if mass murder of innocents is boring, and get a response. Let's then ask the same sample group if they think the person who claims "genocides are boring" is an idiot. Then let's draw conclusions about the intellectual capacity of Sam Harris.
@patientthomist : Interesting. So you are in denial of facts and science. How is that working for you? Is your world still flat? Does your sun still revolve around your earth? Are you are "specially created" child of god?
Yes to the last question only. So are you, child of God. I can prove God exists by reason alone, after an initial sensory experience .... sounds like the scientific method, doesn't it. Can you do that too bary? Would you like to learn how?
C'mon bary. Is that good use of the scientific method on your part to say it's "actually useless superstition" without providing evidence. Let me summarize the argument this way. Your existence was caused and you are in motion (all your cells). There cannot be an infinite regress of causes or motions, lest you not exist or move. Therefore there is a first cause/unmoved mover who is spiritual because matter/energy is in motion - and omniscient (GOD), since knowledge roots there.
@patientthomist : Like I said, all you have is useless superstition and nonsense. But lets not stop there, lets get to the properly bat-shit crazy stuff. So how about it: Zombie-Jebus, talking snake, garden of eden, walking on water, virgin birth, demons, man living in a fish, talking donkey, global flood, special creation?
So you think the argument for God (from infinite regress) is "crazy stuff"? Why? Do you think that about all deductive logic? I can answer you other questions about Christianity. First however, we need to show that God exists. Without that, nothing else matters.
@patientthomist : Are you embarrassed of your religion? Cant you admit that you believe in the zombie-god? Do you believe in the global flood? Do you believe in the bible?
"Argument" for god is useless superstition and nonsense. Its childish and lazy and stupid to try to fill gaps of human knowledge with imaginary friends.
OK bary. I've come to realize that deductive logic is not something you are familiar with or perhaps can do. Therefore, you will not be able to understand the proofs for God. Hence, the Bible is for people like you, who are unable to reason to God's existence ... it's the shortcut. Can you find any contradicitions in the Bible? I have not found contradictions. Talking snake? Creation story is a myth form, unlike the historical Gospels. let's do one question at a time
@patientthomist : We already shot down your god so rest is just pure entertainment.
Muslims use that same "deductive logic" as you christians to "prove" their superstition. You are not fooled by that, are you? Same "logic" can be used to "prove" that Spongebob is the prime mover.
But to shread the bible, lets start with flood of noah.
What you are saying, bary is not true. Muslims, Christians, and atheists can all take logic classes together at university -- not a problem there. The problem is that people like you can't currently understand logic, and so must come to God in another way. It's OK to admit that. Before we address Noah, so I know you're honest, show me how you shot down god. What argument that you presented did that? I would say none.
@patientthomist : Its impossible to prove a negative, so I dont even try. You can say Sbongebob created the universe because you cant understand how else that could have happened. That is ridiculous and childish and wrong, but you can say that. Is there a proper reason to believe you? Hell no. Do YOU have a proper reason to believe in that yourself? Hell no.
You cant make up a fairytale-explanations just because you dont know something. You should admit nobody knows instead of trying to lie.
Unless you consider your own existence a "negative", which is the original sensory experience that we reason from to demonstrate God's existence, then your 1st premise is in error. Clearly you don't understand how to prove God's existence ... if you want, we can go through it step by step.
@patientthomist : I exist. My existense is not a "negative."
So you can prove sbongebob step by step. You think that kind of nonsense is good use of your time?
If you actually COULD prove god, it would have been done allready, hundreds of years ago. There has always been people way smarter than you, thinking about gods. And this world would be a completely different place for it. There would be only one religion, "The One With The Proof, and there would be no Atheists. god would be sciense.
I think the reason we are more emotionally invested in the sufferering of an individual rather than a large group is because we just can't keep track of that many people.
To focus on one person, to get to know them means to empathise with them on some level. The more terrible things that happen to an individual, the bigger reaction you will have.
Where as if you hear about a case of mass murder, you have to mental anchor point. You don't have a face to put with the story.
@0BatGirl0 For example, when I was first told about the holocaust (around the age of ten) I wasn't that affected, because it was told to me in an emotionless, factual way.
Then my class read a book about a jewish boy who went through all kinds of terrible and true events and that got me emotionally invested, I understood in a way I hasn't previously.
I saw the repercussions of his death in a way I couldn't when just informed about the number of people killed in WWII.
What??? Am I the only one who thinks the conclusion that this is a bug is incorrect? Could it not be that people's will to give to help children in need is not additive because their ability to help more kids is proportionately limited???? Doesn't this seem far more rational an explanation than the one that leads to the preposterous conclusion that steered me to this nonsense! Intellectuals like this are just plain mistaken. His teacher should have told him to stop on this line long ago.
Centralized power and unarmed citizen are the perfect storm for Genocide. diversified power and armed citizen are guarenteed by the American Constitution whos authors were living it first hand. BTW Compassion Int, World Vision, two awsome ministries helping world hunger.
We know where the evil is located. Is Authority, Power eg. governments. That's why all the institutions are corrupted. Policical power, Religion power, Economic power (eg. banks) are all evil. We don't need despotism. The average human does not the cause of genosides but rather that is the action of the leaders and elites.
@kalimeraHellas Precisely. Any and every form of power structure will eventually become bloated, corrupt and ruinous. This phenomenon usually coincides with cultural decline; sometimes it does not.
@wvguy8258 Exactly. And, if instead, you asked 1,000,000 people to donate $1 to one child, you could amass 1 mill, then. Does Sam not see this? Wikipedia and all other sorts use it.
It's easier and natural to empathize with a singular than a plural. The empathy didn't diminish due to moral failure, it diminished due to failure in empathy arousing communication.
Ex) Which person are you more willing and likely to help?
1)A girl in Africa.
2)A girl named Trisha in Africa.
3)A girl named Trisha who is starving in Africa.
4)A girl named Trisha who is starving in Africa due to her parents being brutally murdered by rebels.
People aren't bored of Genocides, they simply know it happens all the time in Africa - so it isn't news anymore. I can't be continuosly shocked by the same thing 4 times a day.
@SomethingSea1, there's many dissasters you don't hear about.
During the war between Iran and Iraq 500,000 people died. Wasn't a big deal in the media. Cambodia & the Phillipines have some stories that would shock most people.
Some suburbs in Paris are like permanent war zones, the police refuse to go into them.
Shit happens, but if it's it not "new" in won't make the "news"..
@LibertyDownUnder and in europe... But unlike europe, you dont have western and chinese business "interests" depopulating (ie.Bill gates, rockefellers) through health initiatives; Indirect military control through control through wildlife conservancies(sp?); and good ol material merchatilism need for "yellow cake", "blood diamonds" and oil. These are the modalities used to destabilize african governments and population. Sounds like a conspiracy, but what were the French and American revolutions
@LibertyDownUnder granted. I acknowledge that, but the fact there there is a Africom (us military command in africa) - cfr.org/publication/13255/us_africa_command_africom.html, DFID/England, USAID/States, the french military (e.g chad, senegal, and djibouti),oil in Nigeria's delta, mineral wealth and plantation system in Zaire/congo, China's financial and military presence in Angola and Zaire to name just is few ARE VERY real. I don't see how Paul Schiff an economist is overly relevant?
@LibertyDownUnder you reap (having to pay a reparations of sorts) what you sow (underdevelop & perpetually destablize begining with merchantile colonization).
With that, you are right about the "less problems" part.
We focus on the smaller problems we as individuals have the potential to impact and resolve, whereas much larger problems, far exceeding the resources of any one person, require the attention of a nation or nations to address. Larger problems require group action. Group decisions are made by a small minority of citizens, therefore the per capita level of compassion for genocide in the US population will always be low. This is neither unexpected nor reprehensible, its a product of circumstance.
That's because when Homo sapiens evolved, he lived in a small tribe. He did not evolve to be able to deal with the situation of thousands of people far away.
The fact that a disproportionate number of people listen to a senile Pope in anticipation as opposed to Sam Harris on topics such as these, isn't just morally disproportionate but actually pretty insane.
@veganath He also believed that to solve a problem you need to have a greater power than what is being solved. We all come from this tragically flawed humanity. It is arrogant and naive to believe that the being that commits mass murder and world war can then turn around and fix the problem. Nobody has ever succeeded in lifting themselves up by their bootstraps.
@caveatemp I don't get it. There are plenty of stories of success through honest means, whereby, someone has lifted themselves up by change of attitude. Success stories about of humanitarians in mass changing a society for the better. The cause of genocide is understood. Lack of education and economic conflict combined. The more poor a nation, the more violent. The more wealth and education the less violent.
@truvelocity Germany was in a catastrophic economic depression and Hitler brought them out of it. He was Time's "Man of the Year" two times. Germany was a highly industrialized nation at that point. Highly educated. Our modern educational system came from the Prussians. Then came the genocide.
@caveatemp "We all come from this tragically flawed humanity" & "Nobody has ever succeeded in lifting themselves up by their bootstraps."- Sounds like Christian sentiment, are you Christian?
@caveatemp If by the myth of progress, you mean the maintaining of the status-quo of technological progress as our savior, no! I guess if I had to label myself it would be ...... a believer in the manifesting of love (Christians believe this to be God - 1 John 4:8. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. ...), I guess in that respect I am Christian. Anyway labels we assign things aren't nearly as important as the reality they point too.
@veganath You may be able to harmonize Buddhism and Christianity with 1 John 4:8 --- but then you fall right out of harmony with the very next line in the text. Jesus is the one and only son of God. Searching for some elusive state of mind where you become the watcher of your own thoughts has nothing to do with Christianity. It's a shame Eckhart Tolle has tried to drag Christianity into his sloppy form of Buddhism.
@caveatemp Interestingly there is only 1 reference to Jesus being the only way(as interpreted by Christians), if that was as important as Christians want everyone to believe why would there only be the one reference to it.
However there are so many references in the Bible to the importance of LOVE.
'Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.'
So even if you were unfortunate not to know Jesus, if you manifest love, you manifest God(she is in heaven)
Perhaps you can help, my friend is congenitally blind, deaf & dumb, how can I convey to her the message of the Bible that Jesus is the only way? She is a beautiful soul illuminated by the light of love, should I fear she will never know God?
Why is it important what we believe, the only time I care what others believe is when what they believe is the impetus to cause unnecessary suffering
@veganath Belief is not a magic incantation or a spell. Jesus said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him: and I will raise him up on the last day." Belief cannot happen without God. Your friend is not limited in her capacity to know God. God can use any way God chooses.
@caveatemp Thanks I always imagined there would be a place in heaven for my beautifully loving companion dog, even if she mischievously knocks everything over...lol.
@veganath Yes, undoubtedly love is the most important thing Jesus taught, but Jesus did not come primarily to teach. He says He came to die. You can pull things out of Christianity and if you don't know theology you can sound reasonable. What is infinitely more difficult is putting Buddhism into Christianity. Buddhism is essentially nihilistic. Christianity is the exact opposite. How can you read Jesus saying, "Become the witness of your thoughts."???
@caveatemp don't agree with you on the nihilistic thing. Nihilism implies A-morality, which Buddhism is not. Look up the Definitions of the Four Noble Truths and look at Jesus' alleged life. Tell me there are no parallels.
@ccollymore I'm not speaking of morality but eschatology. Buddhism is ultimate dissolution, the end of the personal. Resurrection is the opposite, becoming more and more human, the physical body going on without death. Christianity is not dualistic like the Greeks (and Buddhists). Christians don't believe in a "soul" separate from the body.
@caveatemp (this is first time I had to look up a word in months - thanks!). With that, in one sense you are absolutely correct in that the paths are different. Eastern religions like buddhism focus harmonizing with the natural world, each other and ultimately ourselves. Control of self is key to oneness.. Abrahamic religions tend to say that you need you need to arbitrarily control yourself based on the edicts of an external other in order to be one with the source, but yet separate.
@caveatemp Abitrary....there are two sets of commandments. But we will deal with the most famous "ten". The first four say worship me, place no other god's before me, don't make idols of any god, worship me on the sabbath. Couldnt that just be one i? What a waste. The next six minus the parent thing are property laws (covet wives, items, theft, killing, false testimony). Another waste? Now I say abritrary from Joshua to Peter god either orders breaking the 10 or does so himself.
@caveatemp Our heart pumps blood, lungs breath, our brain creates thoughts, autonomic activity, but that doesn't mean we always need to give the thoughts the focus of our attention.
Thinking is needed, but our obsession with thoughts leads us to suffering, wanting always to be in a better fictitious future or longing for the good old days that can never be.
The realization of our true inner beauty(as Jesus taught, the kingdom of heaven is within where God or love reside) begins when we learn not to be seduced by our most recent evolutionary milestone, cognition. Even Adam & Eve were warned not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, as it would separate them from God (love). BTW, I am not advocating any religion, I embrace them all.
JC implored us to be like little children, reality can't be so complicated that a child cannot feel God(love).
@caveatemp BTW Einstein like me(& I believe Christ) was a vegetarian, he fully appreciated that the very violence we abhor(genocide..etc) in society is a consequence of insensitivity to the violence inherent in the food we choose to eat.
@veganath "Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it."" (Luke 22:7-8)
Not only did Jesus eat lamb, but he also ate fish. "But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, 'Have you any food here?' So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence"
@caveatemp Jesus is often depicted lovingly looking at & cradling a baby lamb, so it is difficult for a growing number of people like myself to take seriously that Jesus would have taken a knife to that lamb, or, God forbid he ask someone else to slaughter it.
Do you honestly imagine that the "Prince of Peace" could have taken the life an animal with a knife? At the very least, for peace mean anything at all, ,it cannot include violence & causing unnecessary suffering to sentient beings.
@veganath Even stranger then is the violence Jesus allowed to be committed against himself. He willingly went to his execution.
You don't have to imagine there will be animal eating in the resurrection. I think we will have a relationship then with animals that will be so different from eating, so far beyond that. But as for now, life involves
eating and death. That's the sum of it and vegetarians can't avoid it. Read The Secret Life of Plants. Oh yeah, remember when Jesus made the fig wither?
@caveatemp So you believe Jesus took the life of the very sheep he was the Shepard for?
You are right, we cannot avoid causing suffering, however, I do believe we should not cause unnecessary suffering, we have no biological need to eat the flesh of other animals, I & millions of people like me are testament to this fact.
When we eat other animals the best justification we have for doing so(unless you are an Eskimo) is that they taste good. Is that sufficient justification for their suffering?
@veganath I used to be vegetarian but I find the argument rather silly. First, you need to define what "unnecessary suffering" is. If you can figure out that, then that makes you God because only God (who sees all of time from beginning to end) would know what is necessary for the ultimate good. Also, this makes house cats really evil because they don't just kill, they make a sport of it and torture their prey for a long time.
@caveatemp Thou shalt not cause unnecessary suffering to sentient beings..... Would make a great 11th commandment.
For the word NECESSARY to mean anything it cannot include amusement, convenience or pleasure. Since we have NO biological need to eat other animals, our best justification for causing unimaginable suffering to BILLIONS of Gods beautiful sentient beings is that they taste good. That sounds like PLEASURE. ALL Christians I speak to agree that we should not cause unnecessary suffering
@caveatemp An Jain fundamentalist, we can be less & less concerned about this fellow the more extreme he becomes..lol. If u understand something about Jainism.
Speaking of Jainism; Sam Harris said this of it : Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, surpassed the morality of the Bible with a single sentence: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being." Imagine how different our world might be if the Bible contained this as its central precept.
@veganath Refresh my memory. Don't you lean towards the side of Gnosticism? Don't you believe you are God? If this is true, what are you doing to stop unnecessary suffering in the world?
@caveatemp Not entirely comfortable with the word God. If you are asking "Don't you believe you are Love?"(God being love), then YES, as are you & as was Jesus( & the guy @2:12..lol). Everything is a part of God, guess it's kind of analogues to the Sun(God), & the sun ray's(Love) are different but the same. However none of what we believe needs to be taken seriously, the only caveat being when what we believe is the impetus to cause unnecessary suffering.
What am I contributing to stopping unnecessary suffering? Well as Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world", & Jesus, "Love your neighbor as yourself". This is one teaching of Jesus that most Christians I speak to haven't felt & understood the deeper meaning of. Finally I choose to adopt a non-violent (vegan) lifestyle, borne of a sense of the sacredness of all life, & so being as loving, kind & caring of Gods(Loves) creation as I know best.
@veganath They tried to retcon it in, with the New Testament. But Saul/Paul came and reintroduced bits of nastiness... which the Ecumenical Councils never removed.
@StrikaAmaru Interesting, how some seem to gravitate to the dark side, mostly out of fear of feeling intense isolation in an ill perceived hostile environment & therefore a compulsion to protect self interests... playing small
Please expound on this further, I can tell you wish to criticize me, but I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying, and can't see what your point is.
Do you suggest I became an atheist because I was afraid of ending up alone? Tell me, if somebody you know would come up and say "I am an atheist", wouldn't you pester them over and over with your dogma, until they get sick of you and toss you out the door? Christians are not "feeling alone" anywhere, you're the majority.
@StrikaAmaru Oops, sorry, I guess I misunderstood your original post to me, my post to you wasn't a criticism, perhaps we can start over. What did you mean by "They tried retcon it in".... Please expound...lol
@veganath Oops to me as well... that whole "gravitating to the dark side and playing small" was in fact NOT addressed to me? Sorry...
The retcon thing: the Gospels are far more... hippy, I guess, than the Old Testament, and than the latter Epistles, written by Paul and addressed to various communities. Compared to the Gospels, the Epistles have recommendations of misogyny, hatred, murder (including the famous "not suffer a witch to live").
I agree with him but it kinda sounds like he is telling people to take more of a utilitarian way of thinking when it comes to costs of living and our morality
At first this argument seemed like nonsense,but when I thought about it more,Harris is correct.When an individual's needs are presented,we do feel stronger than to an entire community's.I think that a single child strikes us on a gut level:that child could be my own son/daughter.An individual has a story which makes us feel as if we are privy to his/her life and are responsible to make it better.I think this is why many people would rather donate to Christian Children's fund than to UNICEF.
Human beings have never really come to terms with mass society and mass killing by extension. Biologically and psychologically we are still hunter-gatherers adapted for life in small intimate communities where everyone knows each other. Technology has left human nature behind and as of now human nature has not caught up. It is pretty hard to feel empathy toward statistics - have have to see the bodies, see the carnage, see and feel the pain. Our empathy really needs developing.
@blackiron60 Few could read your comment and understand it. I agree with you, and also feel we need to "evolve" further - psychologically and biologically. I am grateful for our capacity to reflect on this, it's a point for us to start from. I hope it is a trait that will be naturally selected!
Having said that, our current extension of [whom we feel] empathy [for] seems to have "done well" thus far -- it might take a long time for these changes to occur "globally".
Also, you see the same effect of "tribal thinking" in almost any news-coverage. Like "Airplane crashed. No {Country-of-TV-station}-Citizens were on board" or "Earthquake in {End-of-world-country}; Embassy reports X Citizens of {Country-of-TV-station} among the victims".....
And the shocking thing: I consider myself to be humanist. Every human has the same worth to me.. but I find myself often thinking in those patterns... but maybe oneday I can overcome it...
@blackiron60 Interesting, but I think its because we are not informed that these genocides are happening until its too late, and then what are we supposed to do about it? We are overwhelmed with the tragedy that we feel helpless in doing anything about it, after the fact. I think there is out-rage. We should do a poll on that.
@blackiron60 Biologically had nothing to do with education of hate. All, is subjects of education. Biology is simple a machine who carry the spirit. Psychology is NEW science and has the main root to fascism and hierarchy or New World Order states. There is only goods and wealth and money and the main power for them is HATE and FEAR. There is no understanding. There is only humans who are speak and act like a parrots. Your empathy need to protest against war, construction of weapons, and police.
@kalimeraHellas What spirit? Biology is alive, not an unfeeling machine. It is a naturalistic fallacy (an untruth) to derive human goals of society from our natural behavior, which is to cooperate in times of plenty and to war at times of lack. We all need to grow up as a world society and learn how to overcome destructive tendencies through education and preserving our Earth for future generations, and I believe its possible.
@blackiron60 Sam is a advocate for the exploration of contemplative experience, but dismissive of religious dogma, like him I believe we can realize our full potential for empathy, by developing loving compassion through contemplative experience, I don't believe we need to be dragged though the school of hard knocks to feel a deep sense of connectedness with all life.
JIM CARREY helps to cast some light on this (The Real Jim Carrey)
Scientific methods to count the illusion does not relate with the greed of the leaders and education. We know they are arrogance and we don't care of how much or in what level. We now where the evil is located and that is Authority and Power. That's why all the institutions are corrupted. Policical power, Religion power, Economic power (eg. banks) are all evil. Not with the theological meaning but simple as we say "too bad".
Your grammar is fail. Your conspiracy theories are fail-er. Your... threats? Were those threats at the end, "We don't forget. We are not forgive."? Anyway, if they were threats, they were the fail-est. Die in a fire, have a nice day.
@CharBroiled04@CharBroiled04 OK you win idiota but whos fail? You try 2000 years to establish the order of hate with the same old ideas. We are immortals and fire itself. Not fire of destruction, but fire who create worlds. No god is good for us. Good without god. It is reality not threats. Threats raise only the state and rich leaders. Is REALLY a threat to you what other people have imprint in their minds? Corruption goes by authority and power eg. political, religion or economic.
You scare me man. You're exactly the kind of person that shoots up groups of people in parking lots (like that nutjob in Arizona who shot Congresswomen Gifford). Your arguments and grammar are near-identical.
@CharBroiled04 You have no right to throw accusations. Not in my grammar and Not in my personality. So to stay on topic, in Greece we don't shoot ministers we only beat them alfavita.gr /artro. php?id=17214
All leaders are corrupted. If you stay with them, because they give money and profit you do evil and we are opposed to this both using evil and good. Anyway where are you Mr. Double Standard when humans die in Iraq, Vietman, Afganistan? I guess you only hypocritic care about the ONE child.
What did shakespeare say..i have no mortal fears ..for i have no mortal dreams...
theforestero 5 days ago
This is a problem, when one man's death is called a tragedy and a million is a statistic in our eyes. it is hard to even comprehend the amount of suffering that has befallen this world and yet people go on with their daily business. It seems like we are a self centered species, not one that values all as much as we'd like to think.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 month ago
Excellent point, Sam. There are many "illusions" that are psychological in nature. Another example of one similar to this video is when someone is being mugged they are much more likely to receive help from a good Samaritan when there are fewer people around. It turns out that more people around make those who witness the mugging assume that someone else will help (and no need for them to intervene).
I also have to feel sorry for people who take Sam literally and don't get his message.
GNOSOPHER 2 months ago
"We find genocides boring"? Speak for yourself, Sam Harris.
"We, we, we" How about you?
Kurtlane 2 months ago
@Kurtlane You're kidding, right? Are you insulted because you took Sam's accusation of the collective to a very personal level. Sam is making a generalization here. I recommend you watch the video a few more times and think about it. I also notice that those who are more highly educated and are "life long learners" tend to get it better.
GNOSOPHER 2 months ago
What a phony & a Provocateur. Hes making too much money off of an extremely gullible population and by so doing qualifies as a grifter.
ZEDSTODT 3 months ago
A lone person seems more vulnarble.
If theres a group is makes it seem like they are doing ok, since there is a group.
Yahweigh 6 months ago
@Yahweigh : Thats not the point. We just cant cry for the holocaust. We can easily cry for individual sad little children killed by the nazis, but to cry over millions of lives lost: not happening.
bary1234 4 months ago
This certainly gives credit to the saying "The death of one is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic." Very interesting but sad statement.
IGrimReaperI 6 months ago
Yes let's make laws to stop immorality, and pay for their enforcement through taxation backed by the threat of force. You know what happens when you decide not to pay taxes? You get raided by the IRS and taken off to jail, and if you continue to resist you kill shot and probably killed.
I'm sorry that his idea is so backwards, that it had to be confronted on moral grounds, because it's hard to face up to being immoral in any case. Even more sorry because he is trying to fight immorality.
MirageScience 7 months ago
One child is a beautiful miracle , a room full of children is hell?
PsychedelicSexDream 7 months ago
The death of one child is a tragedy . Death of thousands of children is a statistic. :(
khmer41980 7 months ago
Good thing the anonymity of the internet allows Oshiba88 to talk racist nonsense on youtube. We all know what would happen to him if he spoke like that in public (AKA the swift ass kicking). It's hard to believe there are people still as dumb and ignorant as Oshiba88 (Most of them are religious too). I can't wait till we get rid of jesus, islam and all other gods on this planet. The ranting lunatics have had enough time to spout their nonsense. It's time we got out of the dark ages.
Sanosukeafo 7 months ago
People think we are such a "smart" species - nay, I still say we are a rather primitive species.
TheSasss1 7 months ago 2
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TheSasss1 7 months ago
i am so guilty.
akarene 8 months ago
You know why no one gives a fuck about helping the "kids" he shows in his trashy power point show?
Because all thes kids are savages negros that are useless animals.
Search for Dr William Luther Pierce
and
The Turner Diaries
Oshiba88 8 months ago
@Oshiba88 You're the animal - actually animals are too good for your kind.
TheSasss1 7 months ago
@TheSasss1 Negros are savages- 2:40 nice to hear that there are 800.000 subhuman’s less on this planet, but unfortunately these Negros are breading more of there kind every day.
Oh btw you are a Negro yourself (wtf didn’t know that animals can use a pc) or self hating Negro lover.
Search for
Dr William Luther Pierce
and
The Turner Diaries
Oshiba88 7 months ago
@Oshiba88 Actually, the population problem in America is Hispanic and the threat of illegal immigration and in Europe it is the Islamic problem in the same context. You are simply an uneducated dolt, sadly. In fact, we are all from Africa as the human lineage originated in Africa; therefore, we are all Africans.
TheSasss1 7 months ago
@TheSasss1 The problem with Negros, Mestizos and sand niggers is that they are animals-they simply can't behave like humans.
Okay humanity originated from Africa...but why are the Negros still living like animals. Oh I forgot...the Negro is still evolving!!! LOL!!!
Sam Harris is a Negro lover- in all his trashy Power Point shows he is bitching that humans don’t care about subhumans-thats ridiculous.
These savages have to get their shit together and at least try to act like humans.
Oshiba88 7 months ago
@Oshiba88 You're an ignorant hate-filled savage. I sure glad I am not you in life - must be a lonely and miserable existence.
TheSasss1 7 months ago
@TheSasss1 You are wana be smart ass, that is giving his ass to animal like Negros!
If you think what this shit head Sam Harris aka the Negro lover is talking is true than you are a loser without any knowledge of human life.
Search on YT for this stuff:
"The Lesson of Haiti"
Oshiba88 7 months ago
@Oshiba88 What "lesson of Haiti" ? Natural disasters happen, tectonic plate movement causes tremors? So? What does that have to do with race, or any human matter at all? Hell, there are on average 1000 earthquakes every YEAR. So ONE happens to negatively effect a country and you think that means something? Natural disasters happen to all people of all races, religions, locations. I guess the white christians in FL that got decimated by hurricane Andrew were "part negro" or something? idiot.
Sanosukeafo 7 months ago
@Sanosukeafo Did you watched the 30 minutes video with the title "The Lesson of Haiti"?
I think after watching this video, researching it for yourself you would not be so stupid and listening to Sam Harris, trying to make you feel guilty for the miserable life of some Negros brats.
Yeah you smart ass earthquakes happen all over the world, but what you fail to realize is, that Haiti was already a Negro shithole. Did you know that Haiti was once a prosperous colony under French rule?
Oshiba88 7 months ago
Comment removed
Sanosukeafo 7 months ago
@Oshiba88 You're stupidity and irrational racism made you completely miss the point. Also, you seem to think that only countries with black people as a majority are poor? Are you out of you're fucking mind? Ever hear of Romania, Albania, Moldova, Ukraine, Macedonia, Serbia, Belarus, Yemen and Bulgaria? ALL are extremely poor, mainly Caucasian countries (Over 80%+ white). Sam's choice of picture has nothing to do with race. This effect is even applied in our own FAMILIES. Retard.
Sanosukeafo 7 months ago
@Oshiba88 I deployed to Haiti for 6 months, I know first hand about it and don't need your fail video for anything on the subject. Also YOU COMPLETELY miss the point Sam is making, he's basically talking about the "Monkey Sphere", where our ape-brains have a max-amount of people that we CAN care about. We care MORE about 1 friend dying in a car wreck then 10000 people in another country getting genocided. Which logically doesn't make sense. It has NOTHING to do with race. Learn 2 read plox.
Sanosukeafo 7 months ago
@MrCharlieSinclair : Yeah thats speculation. But we know religious morons held back stem-cell research for a decade, and actually they still hold it back. So what ever we learn in that field we can actually know that we would have achieved it years ago if superstition had no power anymore.
bary1234 8 months ago
@MrCharlieSinclair : Yeah we did. And if we never had any organised religion we would have done it 300 years ago. Superstition holds us back so bad...
bary1234 8 months ago
0:15 Our visual perception, though a marvel of evolution, is still pretty fucking retarded. As, apparently, is our moral judgment. Still waiting for that Human 2.0 upgrade.
kossmikham 8 months ago
Seems to be a Simple Cost Benefit Analysis , trying to help everyone will seem like an insurmountable goal, but perhaps helping a few seems more achievable. there are limitations, the human mind being a finite thing understands reality in a Finite way. We can't grasp the infinite suffering of millions via genocide with nothing but disbelief and shock, but one child suffering is easily understand;be, For Cost benefit reasons we evolved this way. As individuals we have finite resources
karnzkeltic 9 months ago 2
This is a huge moral failure of human beings to sit around and do nothing while people die, and yet people try to rationalize it. We are laughably stupid to justify evil, but then again, we're just stupid, period.
mooney137 9 months ago
Simply put: That's an unsettling point he's just made.
BlueMaxx86 9 months ago
That isn't a moral failure, its a resource failure. People start to give up on their charity when the futility starts to become obvious.
l337pwnage 10 months ago
@l337pwnage How is that a resource failure? It doesn't follow from the fact that you can't save everyone that you shouldn't help a few. It's a psychological problem.
Irrimor 9 months ago
@Irrimor altruism = suicide, and that goes against most people's nature. When the chips are down, people tend to choose survival. The people that don't choose that, tend to not pass on those behaviors or genetic predispositions because, well, they're dead.
You're free to "help" all the people you wish, enjoy your poverty and self-righteousness.
l337pwnage 9 months ago
@l337pwnage With the exception of the patronizing adhom comment, I think I agree with everything you said. But you're being descriptive and I was being normative. Nothing of what you said is even relevant.
Irrimor 9 months ago
@Irrimor well, I made it as simple as I can for you. Somehow you just do not understand that we live on a planet with limited resources and that inevitably affects the the behavior of the creatures that live here. Well, it affects the behavior of the ones that survive long enough to have offspring, but I don't even want to attempt to explain biological evolution to you.
l337pwnage 9 months ago
@l337pwnage Again everything you're saying is unrelated to my comment. I absolutely understand we live on a planet with limited resources. I understand that "when the chips are down" people tend to behave very selfishly, and I understand how evolutionarily advantageous that is. If you are suggesting that has something to do with how we ought to behave, then it's the naturalistic fallacy straight out of the book. If not, it's not relevant.
Irrimor 9 months ago
@Irrimor The reason I try different permutations is to see if I can trip the light bulb off in your head. Often people need a keyword or idea from their own point of view in order to understand some concepts. And Objectivism is a difficult one.
Like most people, you confuse what is selfish and what is self interest. I speculate that you understand what I mean if I say, "being selfish is against your self interest."
If you take that statement and expand on that, maybe that will help you.
l337pwnage 9 months ago
Sam - we see one child and are certain that that child is feeling fear, desperation, loneness, uncertainly, helplessness…. We see two children and those thoughts are mitigated a little by the fact that they at least have one another.... and so..
I do a lot of cycling and when I see a stranded cyclist I always stop to help. When I see two stranded cyclist I’ll slow down and ask “ok?” if I see a bunch of cyclist, I don’t even look twice.
neway20045 10 months ago
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One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic.
SlauterHouZe101 10 months ago
9 viewers fell into wells when they were babies
nemirn 11 months ago
The same applies to a dog and/or a cat, but not to billions of animals abused, cruelly tortured and mercilessly killed in slaughterhouses.
NickJoshKarean 11 months ago
@wvguy8258 Google for "If I look at the mass I will never act: Psychic numbing and genocide" to get the original study quoted by Harris.
yvranx 1 year ago
@wvguy8258 He is saying that somone willing to give $1000 for a single child is only willing to give $750 for two children.
yvranx 1 year ago
@yvranx Maybe that's because your financial possibilities diminish with every person you want to help.The same amount of help given to a person diminishes as the number of help needing people grows.Maybe with the realization of this reality comes the understanding that you will never afford to help everyone.
Or maybe we just want to give the money so that we are no longer stressed with pictures of the suffering.A gesture to alleviate our psychic struggle....
Torcika 11 months ago
@Torcika I doubt that this is a conscious decision. The situation presented seem to indicate that even half the money (for each of two children) would help, so why not at least give the original amount?
My layman explanation is that evolution would reward empathy towards single, implicitly better-known individuals, but would penalise resources spent for masses. Thus, empathy takes this weird turn.
Anyway, the point is that you can't rely on your empathy.
yvranx 11 months ago
@yvranx A very interesting and thought provoking explanation.
I'm thinking now about a person and his/hers family.How the level of empathy diminishes when you go outside the family level.Shrinking to relatives,friends,even more to distant relatives,etc
Correct me if I'm wrong.I'm not a believer :)
Torcika 11 months ago
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@yvranx A very interesting and thought provoking explanation.
I'm thinking now about a person and his/hers family.How the level of empathy diminishes when you go outside the family level.Shrinking to relatives,friends,even more to distant relatives,etc
Correct me if I'm wrong.I'm not a believer :)
Torcika 11 months ago
Damn, I did not know this. Whow, this is so true. This was a real eye-opener. Dammit we are weird species of dumb mammals.
bary1234 1 year ago 31
@bary1234 ....
nuitaridark 11 months ago
@bary1234
What's even weirder is that 31 people gave your comment a thumbs up. What even weirder is that Sam Harris thinks we think genocides are boring. Let's ask a sample of people if mass murder of innocents is boring, and get a response. Let's then ask the same sample group if they think the person who claims "genocides are boring" is an idiot. Then let's draw conclusions about the intellectual capacity of Sam Harris.
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : Interesting. So you are in denial of facts and science. How is that working for you? Is your world still flat? Does your sun still revolve around your earth? Are you are "specially created" child of god?
bary1234 4 months ago
@bary1234
Yes to the last question only. So are you, child of God. I can prove God exists by reason alone, after an initial sensory experience .... sounds like the scientific method, doesn't it. Can you do that too bary? Would you like to learn how?
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : Sounds like the scientific method, but is actually useless superstition and nonsense.
So you have your own personal religion. You dont believe in the bible or zombie-jebus and all that crap?
bary1234 4 months ago
@bary1234
C'mon bary. Is that good use of the scientific method on your part to say it's "actually useless superstition" without providing evidence. Let me summarize the argument this way. Your existence was caused and you are in motion (all your cells). There cannot be an infinite regress of causes or motions, lest you not exist or move. Therefore there is a first cause/unmoved mover who is spiritual because matter/energy is in motion - and omniscient (GOD), since knowledge roots there.
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : Like I said, all you have is useless superstition and nonsense. But lets not stop there, lets get to the properly bat-shit crazy stuff. So how about it: Zombie-Jebus, talking snake, garden of eden, walking on water, virgin birth, demons, man living in a fish, talking donkey, global flood, special creation?
You down with that crap?
bary1234 4 months ago
@bary1234
So you think the argument for God (from infinite regress) is "crazy stuff"? Why? Do you think that about all deductive logic? I can answer you other questions about Christianity. First however, we need to show that God exists. Without that, nothing else matters.
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : Are you embarrassed of your religion? Cant you admit that you believe in the zombie-god? Do you believe in the global flood? Do you believe in the bible?
"Argument" for god is useless superstition and nonsense. Its childish and lazy and stupid to try to fill gaps of human knowledge with imaginary friends.
bary1234 4 months ago
@bary1234
OK bary. I've come to realize that deductive logic is not something you are familiar with or perhaps can do. Therefore, you will not be able to understand the proofs for God. Hence, the Bible is for people like you, who are unable to reason to God's existence ... it's the shortcut. Can you find any contradicitions in the Bible? I have not found contradictions. Talking snake? Creation story is a myth form, unlike the historical Gospels. let's do one question at a time
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : We already shot down your god so rest is just pure entertainment.
Muslims use that same "deductive logic" as you christians to "prove" their superstition. You are not fooled by that, are you? Same "logic" can be used to "prove" that Spongebob is the prime mover.
But to shread the bible, lets start with flood of noah.
bary1234 4 months ago
@bary1234
What you are saying, bary is not true. Muslims, Christians, and atheists can all take logic classes together at university -- not a problem there. The problem is that people like you can't currently understand logic, and so must come to God in another way. It's OK to admit that. Before we address Noah, so I know you're honest, show me how you shot down god. What argument that you presented did that? I would say none.
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : Its impossible to prove a negative, so I dont even try. You can say Sbongebob created the universe because you cant understand how else that could have happened. That is ridiculous and childish and wrong, but you can say that. Is there a proper reason to believe you? Hell no. Do YOU have a proper reason to believe in that yourself? Hell no.
You cant make up a fairytale-explanations just because you dont know something. You should admit nobody knows instead of trying to lie.
bary1234 4 months ago
@bary1234
Unless you consider your own existence a "negative", which is the original sensory experience that we reason from to demonstrate God's existence, then your 1st premise is in error. Clearly you don't understand how to prove God's existence ... if you want, we can go through it step by step.
patientthomist 4 months ago
@patientthomist : I exist. My existense is not a "negative."
So you can prove sbongebob step by step. You think that kind of nonsense is good use of your time?
If you actually COULD prove god, it would have been done allready, hundreds of years ago. There has always been people way smarter than you, thinking about gods. And this world would be a completely different place for it. There would be only one religion, "The One With The Proof, and there would be no Atheists. god would be sciense.
bary1234 4 months ago
I think the reason we are more emotionally invested in the sufferering of an individual rather than a large group is because we just can't keep track of that many people.
To focus on one person, to get to know them means to empathise with them on some level. The more terrible things that happen to an individual, the bigger reaction you will have.
Where as if you hear about a case of mass murder, you have to mental anchor point. You don't have a face to put with the story.
0BatGirl0 1 year ago
@0BatGirl0 For example, when I was first told about the holocaust (around the age of ten) I wasn't that affected, because it was told to me in an emotionless, factual way.
Then my class read a book about a jewish boy who went through all kinds of terrible and true events and that got me emotionally invested, I understood in a way I hasn't previously.
I saw the repercussions of his death in a way I couldn't when just informed about the number of people killed in WWII.
0BatGirl0 1 year ago
25% reduction in empathy? What measurements and scales are they using to measure this subjective emotion?
CircleBastiat 1 year ago
What??? Am I the only one who thinks the conclusion that this is a bug is incorrect? Could it not be that people's will to give to help children in need is not additive because their ability to help more kids is proportionately limited???? Doesn't this seem far more rational an explanation than the one that leads to the preposterous conclusion that steered me to this nonsense! Intellectuals like this are just plain mistaken. His teacher should have told him to stop on this line long ago.
craig557 1 year ago
Centralized power and unarmed citizen are the perfect storm for Genocide. diversified power and armed citizen are guarenteed by the American Constitution whos authors were living it first hand. BTW Compassion Int, World Vision, two awsome ministries helping world hunger.
vipaccess1 1 year ago
We know where the evil is located. Is Authority, Power eg. governments. That's why all the institutions are corrupted. Policical power, Religion power, Economic power (eg. banks) are all evil. We don't need despotism. The average human does not the cause of genosides but rather that is the action of the leaders and elites.
kalimeraHellas 1 year ago
@kalimeraHellas Precisely. Any and every form of power structure will eventually become bloated, corrupt and ruinous. This phenomenon usually coincides with cultural decline; sometimes it does not.
rqbuchanan 1 year ago
Stalin summarized this "moral cognitive delusion" most succinctly: "A single death's a tragedy; a million deaths are a statistic."
Hottides 1 year ago
I'm a fan of him as well. Hopefully this segment is slightly out of context.
SomethingSea1 1 year ago
@wvguy8258 Exactly. And, if instead, you asked 1,000,000 people to donate $1 to one child, you could amass 1 mill, then. Does Sam not see this? Wikipedia and all other sorts use it.
SomethingSea1 1 year ago
It's easier and natural to empathize with a singular than a plural. The empathy didn't diminish due to moral failure, it diminished due to failure in empathy arousing communication.
Ex) Which person are you more willing and likely to help?
1)A girl in Africa.
2)A girl named Trisha in Africa.
3)A girl named Trisha who is starving in Africa.
4)A girl named Trisha who is starving in Africa due to her parents being brutally murdered by rebels.
Feel the difference?
81stReich 1 year ago
The comparison would be more like:
1. "4)A girl named Trisha who is starving in Africa due to her parents being brutally murdered by rebels."
2. "4)A boy named Tristin who is starving in Africa due to his parents being brutally murdered by rebels."
3. "3)A girl [and boy] who are starving in Africa."
SomethingSea1 1 year ago
@SomethingSea1 You see the point :)
81stReich 1 year ago
0:58 That's racist! How dare you state that a black girl is in need! She probably makes more money than you! Jerk! Racist Jerk!
Introspective91 1 year ago
People aren't bored of Genocides, they simply know it happens all the time in Africa - so it isn't news anymore. I can't be continuosly shocked by the same thing 4 times a day.
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
Oh come on. Pretend it was a diff continent... or do you think that that was a big factor?
SomethingSea1 1 year ago
@SomethingSea1, there's many dissasters you don't hear about.
During the war between Iran and Iraq 500,000 people died. Wasn't a big deal in the media. Cambodia & the Phillipines have some stories that would shock most people.
Some suburbs in Paris are like permanent war zones, the police refuse to go into them.
Shit happens, but if it's it not "new" in won't make the "news"..
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
You were talking about the problem of Africa, not the the problem of news. What if it were on a diff continent?
SomethingSea1 1 year ago
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ccollymore 1 year ago
@LibertyDownUnder and in europe... But unlike europe, you dont have western and chinese business "interests" depopulating (ie.Bill gates, rockefellers) through health initiatives; Indirect military control through control through wildlife conservancies(sp?); and good ol material merchatilism need for "yellow cake", "blood diamonds" and oil. These are the modalities used to destabilize african governments and population. Sounds like a conspiracy, but what were the French and American revolutions
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore, the world's problems are pretty straight forward if you listen to reality based, objective news.
I don't believe any of these theories, as I've researched and found rational explanations to just about all of them.
Try looking up Peter Schiff, and other free market economists as a start.
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
@LibertyDownUnder granted. I acknowledge that, but the fact there there is a Africom (us military command in africa) - cfr.org/publication/13255/us_africa_command_africom.html, DFID/England, USAID/States, the french military (e.g chad, senegal, and djibouti),oil in Nigeria's delta, mineral wealth and plantation system in Zaire/congo, China's financial and military presence in Angola and Zaire to name just is few ARE VERY real. I don't see how Paul Schiff an economist is overly relevant?
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore, if the US stopped trying to push national welfare and international aid programs - both the US & Africa would have a lot less problems.
Aid & intervention are the main causes of Africa's problems.
More here: /watch?v=g7fNamRWVWs
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
@LibertyDownUnder you reap (having to pay a reparations of sorts) what you sow (underdevelop & perpetually destablize begining with merchantile colonization).
With that, you are right about the "less problems" part.
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore, the clip explains it better than me: /watch?v=g7fNamRWVWs
LibertyDownUnder 1 year ago
@LibertyDownUnder i completely agree buddy!
ccollymore 1 year ago
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@LibertyDownUnder i completely agree buddy!
ccollymore 1 year ago
@LibertyDownUnder oh yeah - were the american and french revolutions not conspiracies against their respective crowns?! just saying.
ccollymore 1 year ago
This was a fabulous lecture by the way. If anyone gets a chance to see Sam Harris in person, highly recommend it.
Olsonic 1 year ago
One death is a tragedy, a million a statistic. - Stalin.
GBS990 1 year ago 7
We focus on the smaller problems we as individuals have the potential to impact and resolve, whereas much larger problems, far exceeding the resources of any one person, require the attention of a nation or nations to address. Larger problems require group action. Group decisions are made by a small minority of citizens, therefore the per capita level of compassion for genocide in the US population will always be low. This is neither unexpected nor reprehensible, its a product of circumstance.
emaildoctor 1 year ago
That's because when Homo sapiens evolved, he lived in a small tribe. He did not evolve to be able to deal with the situation of thousands of people far away.
dewinthemorning 1 year ago
The fact that a disproportionate number of people listen to a senile Pope in anticipation as opposed to Sam Harris on topics such as these, isn't just morally disproportionate but actually pretty insane.
lanceawatt 1 year ago
"You can talk about the ethical foundations of science but you can't talk about the scientific foundations of ethics."
Albert Einstein
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp I hope I don't misrepresent Sam, but I believe he would disagree with Albert. What a debate that would be.
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath He also believed that to solve a problem you need to have a greater power than what is being solved. We all come from this tragically flawed humanity. It is arrogant and naive to believe that the being that commits mass murder and world war can then turn around and fix the problem. Nobody has ever succeeded in lifting themselves up by their bootstraps.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp I don't get it. There are plenty of stories of success through honest means, whereby, someone has lifted themselves up by change of attitude. Success stories about of humanitarians in mass changing a society for the better. The cause of genocide is understood. Lack of education and economic conflict combined. The more poor a nation, the more violent. The more wealth and education the less violent.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity Germany was in a catastrophic economic depression and Hitler brought them out of it. He was Time's "Man of the Year" two times. Germany was a highly industrialized nation at that point. Highly educated. Our modern educational system came from the Prussians. Then came the genocide.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp "We all come from this tragically flawed humanity" & "Nobody has ever succeeded in lifting themselves up by their bootstraps."- Sounds like Christian sentiment, are you Christian?
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath I am a Christian. Are you a believer in the myth of progress?
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp If by the myth of progress, you mean the maintaining of the status-quo of technological progress as our savior, no! I guess if I had to label myself it would be ...... a believer in the manifesting of love (Christians believe this to be God - 1 John 4:8. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. ...), I guess in that respect I am Christian. Anyway labels we assign things aren't nearly as important as the reality they point too.
JIM CARREY helps
watch?v=lsQJyKhmqkQ
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath You may be able to harmonize Buddhism and Christianity with 1 John 4:8 --- but then you fall right out of harmony with the very next line in the text. Jesus is the one and only son of God. Searching for some elusive state of mind where you become the watcher of your own thoughts has nothing to do with Christianity. It's a shame Eckhart Tolle has tried to drag Christianity into his sloppy form of Buddhism.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp Interestingly there is only 1 reference to Jesus being the only way(as interpreted by Christians), if that was as important as Christians want everyone to believe why would there only be the one reference to it.
However there are so many references in the Bible to the importance of LOVE.
'Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.'
Mark 12:31(Sounds important?)
'Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love' 1John4:8
veganath 1 year ago
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13:13(Sounds important?)
"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without
expecting to get anything back.Then your reward will be great(Heaven within), and you
will be sons of the Most High(as was Jesus), because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked." Luke 6:35
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13
veganath 1 year ago
So even if you were unfortunate not to know Jesus, if you manifest love, you manifest God(she is in heaven)
Perhaps you can help, my friend is congenitally blind, deaf & dumb, how can I convey to her the message of the Bible that Jesus is the only way? She is a beautiful soul illuminated by the light of love, should I fear she will never know God?
Why is it important what we believe, the only time I care what others believe is when what they believe is the impetus to cause unnecessary suffering
veganath 1 year ago
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@veganath Belief is not a magic incantation or a spell. Jesus said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him: and I will raise him up on the last day." Belief cannot happen without God. Your friend is not limited in her capacity to know God. God can use any way God chooses.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp Thanks I always imagined there would be a place in heaven for my beautifully loving companion dog, even if she mischievously knocks everything over...lol.
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath why?
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore Not sure I understand the question;-)
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath Yes, undoubtedly love is the most important thing Jesus taught, but Jesus did not come primarily to teach. He says He came to die. You can pull things out of Christianity and if you don't know theology you can sound reasonable. What is infinitely more difficult is putting Buddhism into Christianity. Buddhism is essentially nihilistic. Christianity is the exact opposite. How can you read Jesus saying, "Become the witness of your thoughts."???
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp don't agree with you on the nihilistic thing. Nihilism implies A-morality, which Buddhism is not. Look up the Definitions of the Four Noble Truths and look at Jesus' alleged life. Tell me there are no parallels.
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore I'm not speaking of morality but eschatology. Buddhism is ultimate dissolution, the end of the personal. Resurrection is the opposite, becoming more and more human, the physical body going on without death. Christianity is not dualistic like the Greeks (and Buddhists). Christians don't believe in a "soul" separate from the body.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp (this is first time I had to look up a word in months - thanks!). With that, in one sense you are absolutely correct in that the paths are different. Eastern religions like buddhism focus harmonizing with the natural world, each other and ultimately ourselves. Control of self is key to oneness.. Abrahamic religions tend to say that you need you need to arbitrarily control yourself based on the edicts of an external other in order to be one with the source, but yet separate.
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore What is arbitrary about Mosaic law? Harmonizing with nature, eh? Nature is red in tooth and claw for the most part.
You do see evidence of self sacrificial behavior in nature. A hen covering her chicks in a fire. That is the precise analogy that Christ gave.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp Abitrary....there are two sets of commandments. But we will deal with the most famous "ten". The first four say worship me, place no other god's before me, don't make idols of any god, worship me on the sabbath. Couldnt that just be one i? What a waste. The next six minus the parent thing are property laws (covet wives, items, theft, killing, false testimony). Another waste? Now I say abritrary from Joshua to Peter god either orders breaking the 10 or does so himself.
ccollymore 1 year ago
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ccollymore 1 year ago
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ccollymore 1 year ago
@caveatemp also there are many videos online showing altruism in nature. So Jesus may have been mistaken
ccollymore 1 year ago
@caveatemp Our heart pumps blood, lungs breath, our brain creates thoughts, autonomic activity, but that doesn't mean we always need to give the thoughts the focus of our attention.
Thinking is needed, but our obsession with thoughts leads us to suffering, wanting always to be in a better fictitious future or longing for the good old days that can never be.
veganath 1 year ago
The realization of our true inner beauty(as Jesus taught, the kingdom of heaven is within where God or love reside) begins when we learn not to be seduced by our most recent evolutionary milestone, cognition. Even Adam & Eve were warned not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, as it would separate them from God (love). BTW, I am not advocating any religion, I embrace them all.
JC implored us to be like little children, reality can't be so complicated that a child cannot feel God(love).
veganath 1 year ago
@caveatemp with the advent of neuroscience, Sam harris and others like him have already (ad nasuem).
ccollymore 1 year ago
@ccollymore I think you were replying to someone else.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp BTW Einstein like me(& I believe Christ) was a vegetarian, he fully appreciated that the very violence we abhor(genocide..etc) in society is a consequence of insensitivity to the violence inherent in the food we choose to eat.
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath "Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it."" (Luke 22:7-8)
Not only did Jesus eat lamb, but he also ate fish. "But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, 'Have you any food here?' So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence"
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp Jesus is often depicted lovingly looking at & cradling a baby lamb, so it is difficult for a growing number of people like myself to take seriously that Jesus would have taken a knife to that lamb, or, God forbid he ask someone else to slaughter it.
Do you honestly imagine that the "Prince of Peace" could have taken the life an animal with a knife? At the very least, for peace mean anything at all, ,it cannot include violence & causing unnecessary suffering to sentient beings.
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath Even stranger then is the violence Jesus allowed to be committed against himself. He willingly went to his execution.
You don't have to imagine there will be animal eating in the resurrection. I think we will have a relationship then with animals that will be so different from eating, so far beyond that. But as for now, life involves
eating and death. That's the sum of it and vegetarians can't avoid it. Read The Secret Life of Plants. Oh yeah, remember when Jesus made the fig wither?
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp So you believe Jesus took the life of the very sheep he was the Shepard for?
You are right, we cannot avoid causing suffering, however, I do believe we should not cause unnecessary suffering, we have no biological need to eat the flesh of other animals, I & millions of people like me are testament to this fact.
When we eat other animals the best justification we have for doing so(unless you are an Eskimo) is that they taste good. Is that sufficient justification for their suffering?
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath I used to be vegetarian but I find the argument rather silly. First, you need to define what "unnecessary suffering" is. If you can figure out that, then that makes you God because only God (who sees all of time from beginning to end) would know what is necessary for the ultimate good. Also, this makes house cats really evil because they don't just kill, they make a sport of it and torture their prey for a long time.
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp Thou shalt not cause unnecessary suffering to sentient beings..... Would make a great 11th commandment.
For the word NECESSARY to mean anything it cannot include amusement, convenience or pleasure. Since we have NO biological need to eat other animals, our best justification for causing unimaginable suffering to BILLIONS of Gods beautiful sentient beings is that they taste good. That sounds like PLEASURE. ALL Christians I speak to agree that we should not cause unnecessary suffering
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath Check out this video:
watch?v=c3OmoiA39PA&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rn-1r-1-HM
The guy at 2:12 is an ascetic Jain. Take a close look at him and tell me about unnecessary suffering.
Do you still believe that you are God?
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp An Jain fundamentalist, we can be less & less concerned about this fellow the more extreme he becomes..lol. If u understand something about Jainism.
Speaking of Jainism; Sam Harris said this of it : Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, surpassed the morality of the Bible with a single sentence: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being." Imagine how different our world might be if the Bible contained this as its central precept.
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath Refresh my memory. Don't you lean towards the side of Gnosticism? Don't you believe you are God? If this is true, what are you doing to stop unnecessary suffering in the world?
caveatemp 1 year ago
@caveatemp Not entirely comfortable with the word God. If you are asking "Don't you believe you are Love?"(God being love), then YES, as are you & as was Jesus( & the guy @2:12..lol). Everything is a part of God, guess it's kind of analogues to the Sun(God), & the sun ray's(Love) are different but the same. However none of what we believe needs to be taken seriously, the only caveat being when what we believe is the impetus to cause unnecessary suffering.
veganath 1 year ago
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veganath 1 year ago
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What am I contributing to stopping unnecessary suffering? Well as Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world", & Jesus, "Love your neighbor as yourself". This is one teaching of Jesus that most Christians I speak to haven't felt & understood the deeper meaning of. Finally I choose to adopt a non-violent (vegan) lifestyle, borne of a sense of the sacredness of all life, & so being as loving, kind & caring of Gods(Loves) creation as I know best.
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath They tried to retcon it in, with the New Testament. But Saul/Paul came and reintroduced bits of nastiness... which the Ecumenical Councils never removed.
StrikaAmaru 1 year ago
@StrikaAmaru Interesting, how some seem to gravitate to the dark side, mostly out of fear of feeling intense isolation in an ill perceived hostile environment & therefore a compulsion to protect self interests... playing small
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath ... what?
Please expound on this further, I can tell you wish to criticize me, but I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying, and can't see what your point is.
Do you suggest I became an atheist because I was afraid of ending up alone? Tell me, if somebody you know would come up and say "I am an atheist", wouldn't you pester them over and over with your dogma, until they get sick of you and toss you out the door? Christians are not "feeling alone" anywhere, you're the majority.
StrikaAmaru 1 year ago
@StrikaAmaru Oops, sorry, I guess I misunderstood your original post to me, my post to you wasn't a criticism, perhaps we can start over. What did you mean by "They tried retcon it in".... Please expound...lol
veganath 1 year ago
@veganath Oops to me as well... that whole "gravitating to the dark side and playing small" was in fact NOT addressed to me? Sorry...
The retcon thing: the Gospels are far more... hippy, I guess, than the Old Testament, and than the latter Epistles, written by Paul and addressed to various communities. Compared to the Gospels, the Epistles have recommendations of misogyny, hatred, murder (including the famous "not suffer a witch to live").
StrikaAmaru 1 year ago
I agree with him but it kinda sounds like he is telling people to take more of a utilitarian way of thinking when it comes to costs of living and our morality
Slugg329 1 year ago
At first this argument seemed like nonsense,but when I thought about it more,Harris is correct.When an individual's needs are presented,we do feel stronger than to an entire community's.I think that a single child strikes us on a gut level:that child could be my own son/daughter.An individual has a story which makes us feel as if we are privy to his/her life and are responsible to make it better.I think this is why many people would rather donate to Christian Children's fund than to UNICEF.
elzakrasz 1 year ago
Very interesting video, certainly does get you thinking about our societies.
BladesOfMunch 1 year ago
Human beings have never really come to terms with mass society and mass killing by extension. Biologically and psychologically we are still hunter-gatherers adapted for life in small intimate communities where everyone knows each other. Technology has left human nature behind and as of now human nature has not caught up. It is pretty hard to feel empathy toward statistics - have have to see the bodies, see the carnage, see and feel the pain. Our empathy really needs developing.
blackiron60 1 year ago 21
@blackiron60 Few could read your comment and understand it. I agree with you, and also feel we need to "evolve" further - psychologically and biologically. I am grateful for our capacity to reflect on this, it's a point for us to start from. I hope it is a trait that will be naturally selected!
Having said that, our current extension of [whom we feel] empathy [for] seems to have "done well" thus far -- it might take a long time for these changes to occur "globally".
BladesOfMunch 1 year ago
@blackiron60 great point made.
Also, you see the same effect of "tribal thinking" in almost any news-coverage. Like "Airplane crashed. No {Country-of-TV-station}-Citizens were on board" or "Earthquake in {End-of-world-country}; Embassy reports X Citizens of {Country-of-TV-station} among the victims".....
And the shocking thing: I consider myself to be humanist. Every human has the same worth to me.. but I find myself often thinking in those patterns... but maybe oneday I can overcome it...
liquidminds 1 year ago
@blackiron60 Interesting, but I think its because we are not informed that these genocides are happening until its too late, and then what are we supposed to do about it? We are overwhelmed with the tragedy that we feel helpless in doing anything about it, after the fact. I think there is out-rage. We should do a poll on that.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@blackiron60 Biologically had nothing to do with education of hate. All, is subjects of education. Biology is simple a machine who carry the spirit. Psychology is NEW science and has the main root to fascism and hierarchy or New World Order states. There is only goods and wealth and money and the main power for them is HATE and FEAR. There is no understanding. There is only humans who are speak and act like a parrots. Your empathy need to protest against war, construction of weapons, and police.
kalimeraHellas 1 year ago
@kalimeraHellas What spirit? Biology is alive, not an unfeeling machine. It is a naturalistic fallacy (an untruth) to derive human goals of society from our natural behavior, which is to cooperate in times of plenty and to war at times of lack. We all need to grow up as a world society and learn how to overcome destructive tendencies through education and preserving our Earth for future generations, and I believe its possible.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@blackiron60 Sam is a advocate for the exploration of contemplative experience, but dismissive of religious dogma, like him I believe we can realize our full potential for empathy, by developing loving compassion through contemplative experience, I don't believe we need to be dragged though the school of hard knocks to feel a deep sense of connectedness with all life.
JIM CARREY helps to cast some light on this (The Real Jim Carrey)
watch?v=lsQJyKhmqkQ
veganath 1 year ago
Scientific methods to count the illusion does not relate with the greed of the leaders and education. We know they are arrogance and we don't care of how much or in what level. We now where the evil is located and that is Authority and Power. That's why all the institutions are corrupted. Policical power, Religion power, Economic power (eg. banks) are all evil. Not with the theological meaning but simple as we say "too bad".
We don't forget. We are not forgive.
watch?v=KXYJw-on5KU
kalimeraHellas 1 year ago
@kalimeraHellas
Your grammar is fail. Your conspiracy theories are fail-er. Your... threats? Were those threats at the end, "We don't forget. We are not forgive."? Anyway, if they were threats, they were the fail-est. Die in a fire, have a nice day.
CharBroiled04 1 year ago
@CharBroiled04 @CharBroiled04 OK you win idiota but whos fail? You try 2000 years to establish the order of hate with the same old ideas. We are immortals and fire itself. Not fire of destruction, but fire who create worlds. No god is good for us. Good without god. It is reality not threats. Threats raise only the state and rich leaders. Is REALLY a threat to you what other people have imprint in their minds? Corruption goes by authority and power eg. political, religion or economic.
kalimeraHellas 1 year ago
@kalimeraHellas
You scare me man. You're exactly the kind of person that shoots up groups of people in parking lots (like that nutjob in Arizona who shot Congresswomen Gifford). Your arguments and grammar are near-identical.
CharBroiled04 1 year ago
@CharBroiled04 You have no right to throw accusations. Not in my grammar and Not in my personality. So to stay on topic, in Greece we don't shoot ministers we only beat them alfavita.gr /artro. php?id=17214
All leaders are corrupted. If you stay with them, because they give money and profit you do evil and we are opposed to this both using evil and good. Anyway where are you Mr. Double Standard when humans die in Iraq, Vietman, Afganistan? I guess you only hypocritic care about the ONE child.
kalimeraHellas 1 year ago