Arguments Against GOD - Part 3

[eriicaleiigh]

(4) And just because not one of us understands why or how they happen doesn't mean they don't happen. And the same goes for God. You bring up very good points, and again, I appreciate your investigating.

[smalltownatheist]

@eriicaleiigh The fact remains that making up excuses to justify your feelings about how an imperceptible being thinks and feels is the very opposite of investigation and discovery. Your words show this: "I know how cliche this must sound", "I know it's vague", "I'm not going to pretend to understand". You seem to get that there's no way of knowing these things, then in the same breath, you attempt to claim you do.

[eriicaleiigh]

@smalltownatheist Again, sorry if I'm unclear. When I say that I don't understand or that something's vague, I'm saying that I'm not God. Nor am I some sort of prophet. But I can gather from experiences and what I've read the ideas that I've explained to you. But as I continue to explain what I think, I hope you don't compare too much the theories themselves with how they are presented. There are too many people out there who don't believe in Christ because of how christians act. Not saying

[eriicaleiigh]

that you're one of them. But there is a truth out there, despite how christians portray it. And it's easy for one to say that christians are just making excuses to justify their feelings. But any christian could say that atheists also make excuses, but just not to believe. And the only reason I say that is so that if this conversation is continued, we focus on God vs. not-god, rather than believer vs. nonbeliever.

[eriicaleiigh]

(3) I'm not even going to pretend to understand why God does what he does. But I do know there is a reason why we can't understand. God maintains a certain mysteriousness and awe because once human beings become so familiar with the way something works, we place ourselves above it and grow tired of it. Not understanding is yet another way to shake our faith and hold God above us.

Even still, there are times when God DOES intervene, or at least I believe so. It's crazy, but miracles happen.

[smalltownatheist]

@eriicaleiigh "once human beings become so familiar with the way something works, we place ourselves above it and grow tired of it" -wrong. I know how rainbows work. I understand them, completely. No mystery to them. And yet, I love seeing them. (Double rainbows are especially cool!) You're trying to make God sound like a stage magician: if the people can't figure out how to cut the woman in half, they'll respect/fear/be stunned in amazement of the magician.

[eriicaleiigh]

Haha. I understand that you love seeing them, but if you had no idea how they worked, you would have a different sense of awe. I mean, imagine if you had never seen or even heard of rain before, and all of a sudden it came pouring from the sky. I think you'd be in awe. And most likely even terrified. The same goes for all sorts of phenomena. I was probably unclear in saying we grow tired of it. But these events certainly don't hold the same significance as they would if we didn't know.

[eriicaleiigh]

(2) And you know, you could say God is like a stage magician in that way. Except what God creates is real, rather than just an illusion.

[eriicaleiigh]

(2) Without that idea, everyone would be willing to hand over their "love" just to receive the blessings. That kind of defeats the purpose of an honest gift. But anyway, why does the rapist win? Again, I don't know God's motives. However, I have known those who have been under such circumstances. That, and I've seen poverty, and I've seen abuse, and I've seen hate. And I know that God uses these peoples' lives and stories for His purpose. And I know it's vague.

[smalltownatheist]

@eriicaleiigh I'm not going to make you tell me you love me before I pull you out of a burning car.

[eriicaleiigh]

@smalltownatheist Well no, you wouldn't. Because you don't have Heaven to offer me.

[eriicaleiigh]

(1) As far as having a better way for us to overcome our hardships- this is the best way. And I know how cliche this must sound, but hardships are here to shake our faith. How would God know that we genuinely love Him back if we don't still believe in His power in our hard times? To be handed a less extreme life would result in a false, unproven love on our part. You see, He doesn't want to force us into giving Him the only gift we really can give. He wants us to choose to give it to Him.

[smalltownatheist]

@eriicaleiigh An all-knowing God doesn't have to test anything.

[eriicaleiigh]

@smalltownatheist God does know all, but that doesn't mean he forces anything. Personally, I don't agree with everything predestination has to say. Like we've talked about, we have free will. We have a choice to make when we're tested, but He just also happens to know what choice we're going to make.

[smalltownatheist]

@eriicaleiigh Then ultimately we have no choice. The end result is already determined if it can be known.

[eriicaleiigh]

@smalltownatheist Some people believe that. But it doesn't disprove God.

[eriicaleiigh]

I appreciate and respect atheists, like you, who actually take the time to consider, think about, and study who God is or, to you, is not.

Free will. God CAN intervene with free will; He can do anything. But He doesn't. I'm not God and I don't know all of His motives. However, I can say that the worst times in my life are what made me stronger. Having a nice perfect life without any obstacles to overcome or evil to avoid would bring us nowhere on this earth.

[smalltownatheist]

@eriicaleiigh I agree that we can grow stronger in character through trials, an all-powerful, all-loving being can't simply choose not to intervene. Being all-powerful, couldn't "God" have found a better way for us to overcome hardships without going to the extremes that we see today? Why does the free will of the rapist win out over the free will of the child who doesn't want to be raped?

[Pein740]

Ain't that sweet. A man voices his opinions using an already over used argument. Nice how you are using the internet rather than talking to others who can turn around and ignore you. You must have a superiority complex that you feel the need to waste your time converting people to a nihilistic approach, not that it works of course.

[smalltownatheist]

@Pein740 Ain't that sweet. Some troll decides to comment on a video and offer no pertinent argument. Nice how you are using the internet to bother people instead of talking to others, who more than likely already ignore you. You must have a superiority complex if you feel that wasting other people's time -- even online time -- spewing your infinitesimal opinions amounts to any more than melted pig shit. It may have worked once, but consider yourself ignored.

[Pein740]

@smalltownatheist Ooo sorry love have I struck a nerve? At least I'm not the one who posts pointless videos, just pointless comments, but hey at least they bother only one person.

[mooseknucklerman]

I think you do believe there is a God. We all contemplate these questions. Its fun, I love to do it to. These questions are not going to be found by most people. As funny as it sounds, try looking to HIM for these answers and don't do it in disrespect. I belive He will show you the answers if you want to know.

[smalltownatheist]

You obviously haven't read anything from me or watched very many of my videos.

No, I do not believe there are any gods. I find it silly that your suggestion for believing in god is to first believe he exists and then I'll believe. Believe, and then you'll believe! Yeah, great try there, knuckler.

[SicPnk]

Alot of theist say that the reason there is evil is because "god" gave us freewill and he can't enterveine with freewill???

[smalltownatheist]

So if a young girl is raped and murdered, this is because God needed the rapist's free will so that his actions could result in greater good or so that the rapist could freely love God?

If freewill is some kind of barrier, then praying does you no good, and miracles are God breaking his own laws. And, if he can't intervene then he isn't all-powerful.

And what about the stories of Adam and Eve? They saw him everyday and their "freewill" wasn't broken. What about Satan?

[Magnulus76]

Also, where do the concepts of Evil come from? The very fact you acknowledge the existence of evil presuppose an idea there is a moral law or moral imperative of some sort. Where does this idea come from, if not from God? Cultural evolution?  There is no such thing. A culture doesn't evolve anymore than a computer program evolves. Biological evolution? What advantage is there to somebody setting themselves on fire or risking their life to help people not even related to them?

[smalltownatheist]

Yeah, I stopped at "culture doesn't evolve". You're an idiot and not worth any more of my time. If you're truly searching for answers to the questions you posed, try reading.

[Magnulus76]

The Problem of Evil is not a real answer, it just says you don't like the idea of God. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist, it means you refuse to acknowledge him. Besides, there are responses to the Problem of Evil. The fact is, if God exists, his wisdom would be far greater than the wisest man on Earth. We don't know why evil exists, or why the world isn't perfect. That doesn't follow that God doesn't exist.

[smalltownatheist]

It's true that the Problem of Evil isn't an argument against the existence of a god. It's an argument against the existence of an all-loving god.

[Magnulus76]

You are still judging God by your own standards, which is absurd, because if God exists, then there is no higher moral standard than God himself. You don't know what divine love could be like, and are again in no position to judge God. Perhaps it is a love that allows people to do whatever they want freely, even if it leads people to hurt themselves or other people. God is not just love, he is also justice for people who do not repent and turn away from evil.

[fluffywoods]

Christians are all losers.

Christians cannot think for themselves and need a bible to help them justify all actions.

Christians do not understand that they are a part of the human race and connected to the 'collective consciousness' that is what makes a human. Christians do not also understand that the bible and 'religion' is a form of materialism. Christians are in chains everywhere........put that on your plate and eat it.

[fluffywoods]

If people knew their history they would know that the word 'god' has evolved from the word back in time for the meaning of 'sun'.

The word 'god' basically means 'light' which was what was worshipped back in the pagan times. Light was the meaning of life and death back then for the pagans. So as we can see words/language/culture also evolves. Christianity like all other evolved things must do what it can to survive.

[Mobile3999]

smalltownatheist, my belief is that God created free souls he didn't create everyone as a slave to him. You decide if you want to accept God as your saver or you want to suffer for all eternity. This is why evil does exist.

[MinisterMatthew]

I have some thoughts, I think you make a valid point, so I am e mailing you with just some, "other thoughts"

[ScientistKeith]

From this stance, doesn't this make you a strong atheist? You don't know whether the candidates for godhood exist, but evil precludes them on moral grounds from being declared "god". When all candidates, both known and unknown, have been disqualified, it is impossible for there to be a god. Thus, you have knowledge that nothing can possibly be god, and thereby know there is no god.

[smalltownatheist]

While evil certainly precludes the "god candidates" from being just (and therefore reasonable within their own definitions), it *is* possible that there exists a malevolent god; that God is evil, or just doesn't care what happens to us.

That could still possibly be god..I don't *know* it (agnostic), but I don't believe it either (atheist).

[ScientistKeith]

", it *is* possible that there exists a malevolent god; that God is evil, or just doesn't care what happens to us. "

But, from my POV, such a super-being would be a devil, not a god. But, since some religions posit gods that are evil or indifferent, your point is well-taken.

But, for me, I had to make it personal: what would it take for me to consider something to be god? Since nothing has yet to pass that test, I know there is no god (of the kind that I'd consider to be "real" gods).

[smalltownatheist]

Well, you'd be applying religious terms. Call it what you want, but if it's the supreme creator/controller of the universe, then "god" will suffice.

And I too haven't found anything worth calling "god".

[ScientistKeith]

"Well, you'd be applying religious terms."

True. But if "god" isn't inherently a religious concept, I don't know what is.

[CapitolaBoy]

Lol what if Satan is a god, along with Death (the most powerful and feared force on earth). What if there was a physical manifestation of Death, as a middle-man to God, that took care of whoever needs to die. Death would be a God, but yet he has to answer to "God". God could be the apathetic dictator, while Satan is the fallen hero due to his small following.

*Hint* We don't know. No one does. Stop making stuff up and stating it as fact as if you know.

[ScientistKeith]

That all depends on how you define the word "god". Everyone is free to define "god" in whatever way works for him or her.

However, if we use the definition the applies to what most people in Western cultures mean when they say "god" (a morally good, all-wise, all-powerful super-being), then we can say with confidence that we know there is no such being.

But for other definitions of "god", it just depends. There is no doubt that the god of the pantheists does in fact exist.

[CapitolaBoy]

Fair enough. :)

[ProfMTH]

"I've moved to a new small town."

LOL!

Moving can be such a drag. Congrats on getting it done.

[smalltownatheist]

Thanks! There's still boxes everywhere, but we should be done unpacking by next weekend :oP