Eternal Security: How Sure Can We Be? Chuck Missler P1

[Vincentvuoto]

I like Chuck. I listen to his podcast and he has an excellent understanding of scripture. He's also a very intelligent man, I think he was formerly in the intelligence community.

[highlyfavoredone2]

praise GOD for TRUTH. I hate eternal security i used to be in Bondage Now live in Christ doing good work before God out of love not fear ..Internal security teaching sucks.

[ritchloui]

What an absolute load of BALONEY! You will not survive your death. Get over it. This is the ONLY life you are going to have. The Christian and Islamic promise of an afterlife, like any form of racketeering, appeals to greed and fear. Greed for a nice afterlife and fear of a nasty one. Not surprisingly these fraudulent religions, along with their source and negation, Judaism, all deny eachother whilst reinforcing their combined delusion.

[Gate2enter4life47]

@schleprockable I have a question for you! Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

What punishment comes upon the Roman Christians if they do not continue in the Lord?

No doubt you have an invented loophole to turn the condition into a foregone conclusion.

[ritchloui]

@Gate2enter4life47 I hate to break it to you, but when you die, you die. Simple. No amount of sacrifices, prayers, tears and rituals will change this simple fact.

[Gate2enter4life47]

@schleprockable As usual a Calvinist will turn conditions into foregone conclusions and find out in the end when it's too late!

[schleprockable]

There is no eraser on God's Lambs' Book of Life! If your name is written there it is eternal, people!!! These things were done in eternity past, before TIME was ushered in. Lets stop bickering among ourselves and carry out The Great Commission. It's harvest time!!! It is finished.

[Gate2enter4life47]

@Cyyael Jud_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

[MrUrosSrb]

@Gate2enter4life47 this doesnt disprove OSAS at all...

[ritchloui]

@Gate2enter4life47 It took 'Gentle Jesus' to introduce the idea of eternal damnation didn't it. Can you imagine anything more immoral and unjust than for anyone to be condemned to an eternity of suffering for simply not believing in a being that made itself only plausible to the ignorant, gullible and fearful but not to the inquiring, rational and skeptical? LOL. The promise of an afterlife is a fraudulent lie. Grow up.

[Gate2enter4life47]

@BreathOFLaminin One simple question. What is the condition for one in the Sardis Church Not to be blotted out of the Book of Life?Hey do you realise this Church has been and Gone. They were people alive in the time of John...so bang goes the Church in the tribulation theory.@Giovanni7771 I did not write the conditions for the Christians in the Sardis Church they are Spirit inspired so your reasoning does not change that Scripture.

[Gate2enter4life47]

If you are in the book of life you can be blotted out. Is your name in the book of life? Then if you don’t overcome sin and you don’t endure to the end you can be blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[BreathOFLaminin]

@Gate2enter4life47 Only the Tribulation Saints are called to "endure to the end." The Church is a completely different entity.

[Giovanni7771]

@Gate2enter4life47 : Then that leads to two types of scenarios: 1) If you overcome sin in the flesh, and endure until the end in the flesh then why would you need Jesus - doesn't that frustrate the grace of God and make it of none effect? Otherwise you will be boasting in heaven of your own righteousness rather than Christ. 2) The verse actually means something else rather than going cold-turkey in the flesh.

[PeaceAndGloryMB]

I think that Chuck is a treasure!

[0OoJoshuaoO0]

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

[adscense]

Yes all our sins are forgiven including future sins BUT ONLY if we repent of them when commited. Revelation 2 and 3 contains the very word of Jesus to 7 churches and warning of being rejected and judged if they didn't repent.

Rev 1:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent.

3: 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I WILL NOT blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

[Cyyael]

It is God Who keeps you. You can not keep yourself - it is impossible. To teach and believe that you can lose your salvation places the responsibility, if you will, of keeping yourself holy before God, which in essence, is adding to the work of Christ on the cross. I understand that some people reject eternal security b/c they feel it gives people a license to sin. If you are truly redeemed, there's only so far you can go.

[shiphrahhopeful]

God is faithful to us, 1Jn. 1:9; 1Cor. 10:13, but we must be faithful to him to the very end of our lives to escape the lake of fire or second death, Rev. 2:10, 11.

God surely loves us, Jn. 3:16; Mk. 10:21; Rom. 8:35-39, but those who inherit the Kingdom of God love God, Jam. 2:5; 1Cor. 2:9, and to love God means to obey his commands,Jn. 14:15; 1 Jn. 5:3.

We have freedom in Christ, Gal. 5:1, but this freedom is not to indulge the sinful nature Gal. 5:13; 1Pet 2:16.

[MrBingo9er]

@shiphrahhopeful this is pointless because you will not convince me to step over into legalism ever again ...im free indeed and it gives me the power to serve with full assurance ,,i do not believe in living sinful! sin is shameful and a true christian wants NO part in it ..i am free to serve the lord because im forgiven ""ONCE FOR ALL

[MrBingo9er]

@MrBingo9er sorry brother i will choose my words a little better to me you sounded stressed i meant relax or rest in him ...brother i would never tell a servant of the lord to sin ..i would rebuke and have in fact for sin because our lord paid a terrible price for our sin and we cannot go living however we want it is wicked heart that would think this and the people that believe osas and practice sin are holding onto a doctrine NOT our lord and saviour but i cant back away from truth over them

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er You are correct about that! It is pointless to try to convince you if you really aren't interrested in what the Bible says, only what you "feel" and "think", is what is truth to you. If you were a true seeker of truth, then the only thing that would matter to you would be, What saith the LORD?. Clearly that is not the case with you

[shiphrahhopeful]

We are not under the law, Rom.6:14, 15, but if you live according to the sinful nature you will die, Rom. 8:13.

Paul taught against legalism, Gal. 5:3,4, but he also taught that no immoral, impure or greedy person has any ingeritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, Eph. 5:5-7.

We are not saved by works, Eph. 2:8,9, but to reap eternal life and not destruction you must sow to please the Spirit and not the sinful nature, Gal. 6:8, 9.

[MrBingo9er]

@shiphrahhopeful you are using these with the understanding of self preservation impossible...! relax and be secure he will confirm you unto the end ..he who habitually continually practices sin has neither known him or has eternal life in him

but true saints will get lined out no matter what because he has perfected forever them that are being sanctified

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er I can relax as long as I'm DOING what the Bible requires us to do in order to keep our salvation: Bear good fruit or get thrown into the fire (Jn. 15:6; Mt. 7;19; 3:10),Sow to please the Spirit to reap eternal life (Gal. 6:8), Stand firm through hatred to the end to be saved (Mt.10:22), Persist in doing good so that God will give you eternal life (Rom. 2:7), Keep ourselves from idols (Jn.5:21), for all idolaters will be thrown into the Lake of fire (Rev. 21:8),

[MrBingo9er]

@shiphrahhopeful i know the bible as well as you do brother it's commendable you have studied and i see you have a heart for the lord as do we ,buy do you know deeply the God of these scriptures ,or do you cower in fear at the thought of him ..you sound like me 18yrs ago do you really even enjoy being a christian you do not sound like you have joy, just works ,,bless your heart friend .i am gonna pray God give you true peace because i know you love him but i dont think you know the eternal love

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er I do not need to embrace a heretical doctrine like OSAS in order to have the joy of the Lord.I obey God because I choose to out of love, and because I love my own soul enough to, not because I "have to",or "it's a tragedy" - as if doing the will of God is a burdensome, horrible obligation.Jesus said,"My yoke is easy, and my burden is light".He is not asking too much of us to choose to abide in Him, and obstain from sinning in order to keep ourselves from getting "cut off" and dieing

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er To say a Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never really saved, is to ignor at least 26 Scriptures in the NT which clearly show people who previously were disciples and followers of Christ who later fell away, turned away, went back, etc. and not once in those 2 dozen plus passages do we read that, they chose to go back because they were "never really saved". Scripture shows it can be somewhat common for followers of Christ to turn to wickedness, get deceived, etc.

[MrBingo9er]

@shiphrahhopeful heretical ? your belief that somehow you can keep yourself reeks of heresy ,i would rather believe osas (because for the truly saved it is ) than that i could possibly get myself to heaven you are slapping our lord right in the face with your self made holliness ,,when you get to heaven you will not here him say ''wow great job'', you did it'', that uh boy proud of ya'', etc. as far as people that dont make it it's because they never had it . believe what you want to ,

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er We must "Hold firmly til the end the confidence you had at first to share in Christ (Heb.3:14), Remain faithful to God to the very end so you won't be hurt by the Lake of fire(Rev. 2:10,11, 21:8), Continue to do the will of the Heavenly Father to live forever(Mt. 7:21; 1Jn. 2:17), Keep making an agonizing effort to enter God's kingdom door for many who try will not enter (Lk. 13:23,24), Hold on to faith & a good conscience to prevent shipwreckin your faith (1Tim. 1:19)...

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er We must...be overcomers and faithful followers to escape the Lake of fier (Rev.21:7,8; 2:10,11; 17:14), CONTINUE in God's kindness and faith or get cut off like the Jews (Rom.11:19-23), Be afraid (and not arrogant) of getting cut off like the Jews (Rom. 11:20), Discipline our bodies & make it our slaves so we won't become disqualified (1Cor. 9:27), CONTINUE to believe on Jesus so that we will live and never die (Jn.11:25,26),Put to death the misdeeds of the body to live (Rom.8:13b)

[MrBingo9er]

@MrBingo9er i will ask you somethings ,, do you think any true christian wants to live in sin ? secondly , all i see in this is what you must do friend you must be very miserable to think you can do all this ,i promise you i live as good as you do i hate sin! i believe in the gifts of the spirit i been baptised in the holy ghost speak with other tongues and i do not believe for one minute one second that we can live sinful and not pay a terrible price in this life

[MrBingo9er]

@MrBingo9er but! i rely on the holy spirit to do the work i just believe thats all ik required to do ..""this is the work of God that you believe on whom he sent you are trapped in the ""I"" syndrome ,and i promise you you are gonna fail miserablely,,you will burn out brother and then our precious lord will be there to say trust in me just like he told me to do ..we believe the same brother i just trust the lord ..and what he does he does eternally you will not get to heaven say i did all this

[shiphrahhopeful]

@MrBingo9er Trusting in the Lord is not the same thing as "relaxing".Gal.6:7-9 "Be not deceived;(Paul's warning BELIEVERS, not to be decieved into thinking that they can't die spiritually)God is not mocked:for whatsoever a man soweth,that shall he also reap.For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.And let us not be weary in well doing:for in due season we shall reap, IF WE FAINT NOT" -DON"T RELAX

[shiphrahhopeful]

Eternal life is a hope, Titus 3:7, yet to be reaped, Gal. 6:8,9, in the age to come, Mk.10:30, for only those who persist in doing good, Rom. 2:7, and do not grow weary and give up, Gal. 6:9.

We believe that we are saved by grace, Eph. 2:8,9, but we can fall from grace, Gal.5:2-4.

We are justified by faith, Rom. 5:1, but our faith can become shipwrecked, 1Tim.1:19, 20, and cease to exist, Lk. 8:13; Rom.11:19-23.

[lalastransmission]

Thank you! Awesome!

[TheOriginofStorms]

Hebrews Chapter 10 verse 26 states:

If we sin wilfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.......... so jesus as a sacrifice does not count for you and that is very conditional ...without sin unto salvation ... unto = until ... chapter 9 vs 28 .... stop dispensating the scriptures

[Ashleygreen22]

PropheticVoice7 is obviously a false-teacher and grace-denier. He doesn't believe the words of Jesus in John 11:26.

[ilikmetal]

you cant lose something you never truly had,enough said.If that guy who is called gospel4u2 would have the guts to allow comments,he would see how ridiculous his argument on losing salvation is,at what point do you lose it?how do you get it back?does the holy spirit stay sealed within you upon loss of it?all these questions cant be answered because you CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION! their shall be no flesh glorying in the presence of the Lord,its the job of the holy spirit to convict us of sin.

[Gothicbrett]

There is now NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. If we are saved then we are in God's family & how would a father throw his own child into hell? People go to hell coz they never excepted Christ.

[PropheticVoice7]

Before we are reconciled to God through Jesus all of our wrong doings are called sin.After we are reconciled and all our wrong doings are iniquity because we know its wrong and we refuse to accept the Lordship of Jesus over our lives denying the power thereof.

[PropheticVoice7]

One day i asked God, whats the difference between Sin and Iniquity,Holy Spirit revealed to me that Sinners walk opposite of the road of salvation,doers of iniquity walk on the road of salvation unrepented,Both will Go to hell.Its mentioned about lucifer " You were perfect in all your ways until INIQUITY found in you"

[ilikmetal]

oh,I love how you have such private interpritation as to what the Lord is saying ,GRACE is not bestowed upon angels but upon mankind.Why do you think the sinner on the cross will be in heaven?because Gods grace is for those whom he chooses,not who you think deserves it.whoa to you scribes and pharisees for you put bolders on mens shouders yet fail to move it yourself,that is what

is said for those who believe in losing salvation and having it merited by works

[PropheticVoice7]

So you are saying if you knowingly committing adultery even after you accept Christ and you will go to heaven simply because of God's grace?

[ilikmetal]

.You need to think about the thief on the cross.he did absolutely nothing to merit that grace other than accept Christ as the perfect son of God and believe.now this is surely no license to sin but the beginning of the indwelling of the holy spirit that will have its perfect work done in you eventually,Gods grace isnt understandable by human comprehension and His blood was shed for all your sins not just your past ones.We repent not to stay saved but because the holy spirit leads us to repent

[PropheticVoice7]

Romans 6:1-2 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

God's Grace is not an isurance policy so we get a free-pass to Heaven.

[ilikmetal]

God chastens those who are his,hebrews 12:6.If you can go in and out of the family of God what makes you think you will recieve chastening,you wont. 2 Corinthians 5:17. we are made new creatures in Christ ,all old things are passed away..I actually believed I could lose my salvation over the past year and you know where it got me,living neck high in sin.guilt,shame,worthlessness,­imperfection.all lies from satan twisted to make me doubt God and His plan for me,I pray God opens your eyes

[PropheticVoice7]

Thats only half the truth,yes we are humans we sin,before i came to know christ i involved in drugs,sex and etc,now im totally off from it.You think ill inherit heaven if continue to live like i used to?

[ilikmetal]

If you are truly saved,you will either die or you will only be able to go so far on that path.the pleasure of sin lasts for a season.I am not the judge but I believe that if you have accepted Christ into your heart you are going to be in heaven.this is not a license to sin but an understanding that Christ sacrifice was sufficient for past present and future sins.I feel sorry for anyone who views it as a license to sin because you are really trying to understand spiritual things in human ways

[MrBingo9er]

@PropheticVoice7 truly saved people dont want to live this way brother /sister? even if they are doing it im sure they are bound and miserable you see a little lamb cant be nothing but a wolf likes it ...get it

[Cyyael]

@ilikmetal I agree 100%. I used to believe that I (and anyone) could lose my salvation, but now I understand that I can not. God has predestined us to become His children. He has sealed us with His Spirit. That can not be undone. And as a child of God, there is a limit to how far you can stray from God. When His spirit lives within you, there is only but so much you can do before your conscience overtakes you. God has secured those who are truly His.

[ljackso]

@PropheticVoice7 : Let me take a shot at this one. Yes you can commit adultery after being saved and still go to heave, the PROBLEM you will have is that such an act has consequences. You could get AIDS and die, you could loose you wife, kids, job and no telling what else. Plus if you truly love God and really understand what He has done for you will not do this just because you can. You will never be perfect in this life but we are to try to be holy as He is holy. Maranatha!

[ProphetNPrairie]

If there is no assurance of Eternal Life, then Christianity is no different then any other religion. You might as well just say there are many paths to God. No assurance of Eternal life is Catholic Propaganda.

[jazzbummer]

Adam and Eve were perfect. If we are once save always saved, why did they fall? We must remember Gods ways are are eternal. It makes no sense that if they can fall from perfection, we can fall from salvation. If we do fall, we have the choice to repent from our sin. The question is not, after we are saved, does God still love us, but do we continue to love God.

[PropheticVoice7]

Amen!Just like David,God said " He is man after my own heart" not in the beginning of David's life,its after all horrific things he did and he repented.Salvation is a gift,we might lose a gift.

[MrBingo9er]

@jazzbummer what they had was noy to be compared to what we have ...we have been redeemed this is greater than the Garden because Jesus is in us

[Jhoffisdead]

Thank you for uploading this!

[wezand2]

It's a gift we don't deserve or earn. But we had to repent, believe & accept it. God doesn't have to "take back his gift" in order for you to neglect it and lose it. The gift giver is not responsible for what the recipient does with a gift. Salvation "is the gift of God". And like any gift, it can be accepted and cherished; or it can be outright rejected; or it can be accepted and then discarded like an unwanted Christmas gift. See WHAT LAW WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS? on wezand2 YouTube channel.

[ChihuahuaBrave]

I was a born again Christian. I had the joy of Jesus. I was an operatic gospel singer. I spent years in prison ministering to prisoners and sharing my testimony. I lost my salvation and now I'm going to hell. I sinned greatly and now I'm going to hell. All hope is gone.

[jinkyfc]

you still are born again. you can not be Un born again.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

you were sealed after you believed, this seal will last until the day of redemption.

you may have "grieved" the holy Spirit but you are still saved

[katpiering123]

You can still go to hell after accepting Yahushua as saviour. See Revelation 3:5. And Hebrews 10:26-29.He who endures to the end are saved Phil.2:12,Matt.24:13,Matt.10:2­2.

[DictatorStatus]

well Most Once Saved Always Saved Churches preach harder against Sin than churches that believe salvation could be lost. and Once Saved Always Saved Churches are the very few that even use the right Bible which is the King James.

Hebrews 10:14 (King James Version)

For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOREVER them that are sanctified.

[YouMustBeBornAgain1]

@DictatorStatus RT Kendall Once Saved Always Saved, Great Read. Luke 10:20 Phil 4:3 1Jh 5:13 Does God have an eraser? There is no mistakes in perfection. How can anyone break the seal of the Holy Spirit? Sin? : ) The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith Gal 2:24. God Bless

[MrBingo9er]

@DictatorStatus i love this scripture ,,and we cant live right if we dont have that security because we will worry too much about trying to keep it - bless you

[DictatorStatus]

Hebrews 10:14 is sufficient proof that Salvation is a permanent one time deal

I myself used to believe in Salvation by works until i started reading the right Bible

[K1l1Bee]

God Bless!

[bluemew88888]

@jinkyfc i feel the same way as the poster you replied to i thought i was saved but im starting to feel that i am lost for sure dieng and going to hell and will burn for eternity. im gay and did not choose it i cant change it i tried and now im not the least bit sorry bout being gay and wont change so i guess that means im gone for good. life sucks i was born this way then get persecuted and will burn in hell for it that seems totaly unfair

[1cor15saves]

no we can't be UNborn we can never undo what God has done but if your trust was IN the things you did you may not have been saved to begin with but the bible says that we may not get any rewards but WE SHALL BE SAVED!

1 Corinthians 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

if you believe what is necessary to be saved 1 Cor 15:1-4 Paul's gospel of Christ for this dispensation of God's grace

[Kagemuxa]

@ChihuahuaBrave watch?v=HYz_GqtdOI8

these one has more convincing conclusion

btw, you are still not yet enlightened by the true gospel so that "salvation" you were talking is not a real salvation, there is still hope. listen to the host of the program Brother Eli Soriano, he answers so many questions live for decades. try it

[dewman92]

@ChihuahuaBrave Thats what satan wants you to believe. I think thats why God got rid of the legalism is because the guilt from sin makes people feel like God doesnt want them anymore. And satan definitely uses that to his advantage. dont forget your identity in christ.

[SPmachina033]

@ChihuahuaBrave Before the Apostle Paul became a Christian he actually murdered Christians and had them thrown in prisons and tortured. He was present when they killed Stephen for proclaiming the Gospel of Christ. He was on the way to go arrest more Christians when Jesus appeared to him and saved him. Don't let satan steal your joy, that is EXACTLY what he wants.. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”- 1 John 1:9

[TheJCFan]

@ChihuahuaBrave Go read the parable of the prodigal son. Come to your senses and turn back to your Father and He will run to meet you half way and embrace you with tears of joy and restore you as a son (even though your sins make you only worthy to be a servant). Gods grace is sufficient for you. Stop beating yourself up. The same grace that saves you in the same grace that maintains you. Cry to the Lord asking his forgiveness and he WILL forgive you. (1 john 1:8,9)

[katpiering123]

Only those that keep the commandments will enter into the new Jerusalem(Rev.22:14)

Point 11:Whats a saint?Someone who has faith in Yahushua and keep the commandments(Rev.14:12, Rev.12:17).

Whos prayers get answered? Those that keep the commandments(1John3:22, James5:16, John15:7 and 10).

[simple475]

@katpiering123

kat...if only those who keep the commandments go to Heaven, then why did Christ even die in the first place?

What was the purpose of the atonement, what was the purpose of Christ's death?

If all I had to do to be saved was to keep the law, then Christ's death was pointless.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

[MrBingo9er]

@simple475 awesome point , i am pentacostal but l just love the baptist people they truly understand grace ,,,bless your hearts ..i think that the true saved have more power to live right because they rely on jesus alone ..we are in this together brethren and sweet sistas ,,,,in christ steven

[Holy2theName]

@simple475 You're confusing two different laws. Paul uses the word law for a number of different things. Here, Paul is talking about the "Oral Law" of the Jews, in this case referring specifically to conversion to Judaism. He is saying that if you can be saved by converting to Judaism, as many Jews will tell you, then Christ died for nothing. But be doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (James 1:22). The doers of THE LAW shall be justified (Romans 2:13).

[katpiering123]

Point 10:What does Yahushua(Jesus) want us to do?To keep the commandments (John14:15,John15:10,Matt.15:3­-9,Matt.5:19-20).

What does Paul want us to do?Keep the commandments(Romans2:13, 1Corinthians7:19, 1Timothy6:14).

Whats man's purpose on earth?Solomon says to keep the commandments(Ecclesiastes12:13­-14).

What doesJohn believe?We must follow in Yahushua's footsteps by keeping the commandments(1John2:3-4, 1John2:6-7)

What is love?To keep the commandments(1John5:3 and 2John1:6)

peace!!!!

[katpiering123]

point8: Yahushua died for our lawlessness so that we can keep the law written on our hearts and sin no more.

Point9:definitions:

Whats righteousness?To keep the commandments(Deut.6:25,Luke1:6­,Psalm119:172)

Whats holiness?To keep the commandments(Numbers15:40)

Whats the new covenant?Ability to keep commands(Heb.10:16,Heb.8:10,Je­r.31:33)

Faith without works is NO faith(James2:17)

Whats grace?the ability to keep the commandments(Titus2:11-12)

[katpiering123]

WE CAN DEFINATELY LOOSE OUR SALVATION!!!! Rev.3:5 say that our names can be removed from the Book of life.Paul says in Phil.2:12 that we must work our salvation out with fear and trembling.Yahushua(Jesus)said in Matt.24:13,Matt.10:22.Point5:W­hat happens to a believer that does not keep the commandments?He goes to hell!(Matt.7:21-23,Matt.13:41-­42,Matt.19:17)also read Rev.22:14.POINT6:FAITH WITHOUT WORKS ARE DEAD(JAMES2:17)you only have faith when you do the works.

[katpiering123]

The works are commandments written on our hearts(Heb.10:16,Heb.8:10,Jere­myah31:33). Point7:We must become spiritual Jews(Yahudites).(Romans2:29)by having our hearts circumcised. Only when you obey Yahuah the Father, can you receive the set apart Spirit to reveal Scripture to you.Thats why Chuck is missing the message(Acts5:32, 1John3:24,John14:15-16).As these scriptures show, we obey the Father by keeping His commandments.This is the purpose of salvation from sin, that we can keep the commands.

[ilikmetal]

I dont agree but you are still my brother in Christ, God bless you

[katpiering123]

Point1:Only our previous sins are forgiven when we ask Yahushua(Jesus) to forgive us.Point2:What is sin?Sin is lawlessness(1john3:4).Yahushua died for our lawlessness(Titus2:14).Point3:­What must we do after accepting Yahushua as our saviour?We must not sin anymore by keeping the commandments(10).Point4:Only when we strive to keep the commandments,is there forgiveness for our sins after salvation(1John1:7,Proverbs6:2­3,Psalm119:105).

[katpiering123]

Chuck is missing the point of the Message in the Bible as all gentiles do. If your not in a covenant relationship with our Father Yahuah.Then your not His son. This relationship is when the law is written on your heart.This is the NEW covenant(Hebr.10:16,Heb.8:10,J­er.31:33)

[Philos2006]

What childish nonsense; Why don`t you go and play with your marbles ?

[NephilimFree]

"the impossibility referred to is an impossibility to being restored to repentance, not to restore salvation (justification)"

This statement of yours closed the door on my argument. THANK YOU BROTHER. You have done a good thing today. :D

[NephilimFree]

You know what did it for me? In my arguing I led myself to argue that returning to repentance does not mean returning to salvation. I realize that because many are called but few are chosen means that those who become non-repentant were not saved to begin with. Repentance does not insure slavation, because we can do nothing unless drawn. It's God's work, not ours, so we cannot assure salvation even if we seek it and repent. BUT, if we are given the gift, it cannot be lost.

Praise God.

[NephilimFree]

Hey, you know what brother. I just drove myself into a philosophical wall. I just realized, by trying to refure you because of my error, that you are correct.

I have just realized that salvation cannot be lost. Your reference "the impossibility referred to is an impossibility to being restored to repentance, not to restore salvation (justification)" combined with my pusing myself into the truth with my own orgument, has convinced me that you are right.

[NephilimFree]

It's easy to say that because someone fell into sin for a time that they have fallen away, but that is nor what the bible is referring to here. God will surely wlecome back someone who has not become unrepentant but has fallen into sin.

There is a great difference between such a person ans one who has "changed their mind about sin" to become unrepentant, and has fallen away. Such a person as this will not return to God even if drawn.

[NephilimFree]

Consider what's meant by "renewal to repentance". To repent means to change one's mind about sin. Someone who falls away has changed their mind about sin. They no longer believe their sins are wrong. They come to believce that God is too demanding that they should give up as best they can their own desires, and they seek after them, thinking God is too picky.

Such a person is "impossible to renew to repentance". This is a person who has tasted the goodness of God and turned away from it.

[NephilimFree]

Are you going to tell me that these passages do not mean what they clearly say? Are you going to add "but!" or "however!" or any personal interpretation to them?

My friend, God is love, that is certain. But God tests the reigns of everyone. Many are called and few are chosen. Those words are true as well. by turning away from God someone demonstrates that, knowing the truth, their pleasures mean more to them than God does. Why should God not act upon what is revealed to Him?

[NephilimFree]

If you can interpret these words to maean anything it does not state you have a big problem. Now, surely God is patient and compassionate. But I think you misunderstand what turning away is and what it means to God.

[NephilimFree]

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[NephilimFree]

There is one way however that someone can lose their salvation. It is if they turn away from God and stop seeking Him. So long as someone seeks Gosd, seeks to be forgiven, seeks to keep the payment for all of their sins, God will not cast them out. But if someone stops seeking God, stops tryin to do right, and stops considering God and forgiveness, they will lose what was given. "Not everyone who says Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom" "Many are called but few are chosen"

[NephilimFree]

Consider this my brother:

Luke.8

[13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

[jinkyfc]

the prodigal son seems very clear to me. he sinned, spent his inheritance ( heavenly reward ) but was welcomed back with open arms without a second thought.

[NephilimFree]

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[jinkyfc]

the impossibility referred to is an impossibility to being restored to repentance, not to restore salvation (justification)

[NephilimFree]

[7] For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

[8] But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

[9] But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

[jinkyfc]

This is in reference to our fruit. our works can be burned up but we can't.

"accompany salvation" is a very clear statement. this is in reference to things that go along with our salvation. its not questioning our salvation itself.

[NephilimFree]

"things that accompany salvation" are good works, which man produces only after slavation. "that which beareth thorns" refers to people who do not produice good works through salvation. Thus:

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If one can be renewed, one can not be renewed. You are chosing to believe one passage and rejecting another.

[katpiering123]

Sorry friend,but there cant be to sides of scholars thats good and accurate.One group misinterpret the Scriptures and the other has it right.Who do we listen to?people or the Holy Spirit?The Holy Spirit will reveal only one truth not two different views,so one group are not led by the Holy Spirit when interpretting the Scriptures

[DictatorStatus]

@ Katpiering , i believe what Chuck Missler was trying to say is that both sides of the argument can back up why they believe what they believe

Both sides of the argument could be defended

[katpiering123]

Might be so but not both sides could be right.One group misinterprets Scripture and Peter tells us which group that is in 2Peter 3:15-17.Those that promote lawlessness through Paul's letters.

[simple475]

@katpiering123

Hey katpiering123

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Just after Paul tells the Christians in Rome in Romans 3, 4, and 5, that salvation is a free gift and salvation is by faith alone, not by works, and not kept by works, Paul answers the objection that would be raised against him...

people would think that since Paul is preaching salvation is simply by faith, that we can live however we want. but Paul says otherwise in Romans 6!

[NephilimFree]

[10] For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

[11] And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

[jinkyfc]

this is in reference tothe Bema seat. Judgment, not mercy, will emanate from the Bema seat with a just recompense of reward for

works—positive and negative as appropriate

[NephilimFree]

The full assurance is the assurance of salvation. What other assurance can there be?

[NephilimFree]

Did you see how it refers those who fall away as those who bring forth thorns instead of the fruit of their salvation, and are thus tossed away and burned? And how it refers to the full assurance of salvation? It seperates them because the full assurance is good only for those who do not fall away and stop seeking God.

[jinkyfc]

the works are tossed away and burned we are not.

1Cr 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

[NephilimFree]

I agree works is not part of salvation. But you are confusing works with fruit of the vine. Many are clled but few are chosen. The works you refer to are those of a man which are done before he is saved, or of a man who is not saved.

[themsfightinwoids]

@NephilimFree "Many are called but few are chosen"

Nephie, does your god "choose" freeloading alcoholic perverted dishonest hypocritical narcissists (like you)?

How is that a fair and perfect god??

Even YOU have to wonder why a divine and supreme intellect would favor a blathering mooch like you over so many others who live productive lives with actual moral integrity.

I'd pity you if you weren't such a complete asshole.

[ritchloui]

@themsfightinwoids I absolutely agree! God says, in Leviticus 14:4-7, to cure leprosy all you need is sprinkle a bird’s (any kind will do) blood on the leper seven times and he’ll be cured! Presumably smallpox was eradicated because everyone prayed very hard and drenched alters with blood and fat. Moses didn’t even exist. Jesus probably didn’t either. To state the obvious, the Bible is all utter baloney created by priests for a hapless, superstitious, gullible audience.

[MrUrosSrb]

@ritchloui This is talking about the cleansing of a healed leper.Jesus did exist.There is overwhelming evidence of that my friend.First ,you have the whole New Testament thats 27 books.Then you have a famous Jewish Historian Josephus who also wrote about a man called Jesus.Then u got Tacitus,Lucian,Celsus who accused Jesus of being a magician,Then u have the Nicene Creed,The Gnostic Gospels.Its evident that Jesus Existed.

[NephilimFree]

Amen! God is so good! Thanks brother. We Christians need this kind of reminder.

[kjvonly01]

Amen brother, good word.

[MrZtron]

I approve of this great message-

God bless

[katpiering123]

But does the Holy Spirit approve?