I love how they put that Poland saved Europe from Soviet Communism yet during the 60's Half of Europe was Socialist. ;) yet many still are internationalism will never die comrades.
Katyn massacre - mass execution of Polish citizens in 1940 by ... NKWD USSR.
Ukrainian Wikipedia: "Волинська трагедія — один із кривавих епізодів укр.-пол. конфлікту..Дії поляків, які спричинили конфлікт..Першими почали конфлікт поляки"
Translation: Wolyn massacre - one of bloody episodes if ukr.- pol. relations..Polish deeds that caused the conflict..Poles started conflict first".
When the Red Army crossed Polish border and advanced to Warsaw, it turned into a patriotic war for polish people, since the very existence of Polish state was threatened. But the beginning of the war definitely had elements of a military adventure - Piłsudski wanted to take as much advantage of the situation as it was possible. Conclusion - Poland was not a pure victim in this particular case. Do not take me wrong, for example in 1795 Poland was a pure victim. I am just trying to be unbiased.
I am Russian, but speak Polish, love Poland and polish culture. Honestly, the film looks a bit biased, well it says truth, but not all truth. After the WWI several empires collapsed and Poland got it's chance. Red Russia wanted to restore it's "historical borders", and Poland did exactly the same. It was Polish army who advanced first to the east (there were some reason, of course, but they always are). When the tide turned Red Army didn't mind to occupy not only Poland but Europe in addition.
@LWV11 "Natural ally" sounds nice in youtube, but in reality polish-ukrainian relations are very far from perfection, and probably are more complicated them polish-russian relations.
In 1918 two "Natural allies" started a war. And you know this fact very well.
Moreover - I never heard that Ukranian side apologize (or at least admitted as a fact) for Volyn masacre, though even Russians apologize (ok, at least admitted) that Katyn was a massacre.
Polish-ukrainian relations are pretty complicated.
@LWV11 I just gave it as an example, that polish relations with almost all neighbors (not only Soviets) at that time was tough. In 1939 or 1894 Poland was a pure victim I completely agree. But 1919 is a bit different story. It was polish army that advanced to the east first. And you know it very well. I have never ever heard explanation, why polish army advanced to the east. May be you can explain me?
@akchicago21 First, polish army acted on behalf of his ally, Ukrainian government.
Second, Poles did dirty job against bolszewics, what other europeans did not..
Next, without polish strike Sowiets might start this war before, dont forget about their empiry and imperialist ideas. It was like race between Stalin and Hitler, when Hitler attacked first...
@LWV11 If you ask an average polish person, he thinks the war started right near Warsaw, when Bolsheviks came there. You never can hear, that it was polish side, that advanced first. Never. Why not say all truth? I guess the answer is very simple - the fact, that polish army advanced first is very inconvenient. Then you have to say something like "it was dirty job against Bolsheviks" or "it was a preventive attack" - anyway you have to say something awkward. To look a victim is much nicer.
@LWV11 Well, Pilsudskiy ideas were not secret too. At that time (1918-1920) Poland had wars with 4(!) of it's neighbors. Of course, Bolsheviks were devils, and I agree with that.
But Pilsudsky in turn can hardly be called an angel or even Mohatma Gandhi of his time. That was a war between a maniac (Bolsheviks) and a cardsharp (Pilsudky).
@LWV11 All I wanted was to show that there was something in Pilsudsky attitudes that made him fight with Polish neighbors. With Czechoslovakia, with Lithuania and with (Western)Ukraine - all those countries were not under Bosheviks. Nevertheless, there were wars with them.
In Polish-Bolshevik war there was not only Bolshevik guilty, but partly - Pilsudski also.
@LWV11 3 big empires collapsed. Several new countries emerged. There were many places with mixed population. Pilsudsky as a Polish patriot wanted to extend Polish territory to all such places, plus to places that once upon a time were polish. And he was trying to do this with military power, not with talks.
He was a real Polish patriot, my full respect to this great man.
But, please don't tell my about saving Europe from Bolsheviks.
He didn't care about both Europe and Bolsheviks. Not at all.
@LWV11 Shortest way from Tehran to New York goes through Warsaw as well. Does it mean, that you sit and think about saving America from Iranian terrorists? I don't think so. You care about much more pragmatic things.
@akchicago21 Because victory of Poland in Polish-Soviet war 1920 Baltic states like Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia saved his independence. Polish-Latvian operation against the Bolshevik forces end with victory on Battle of Daugavpils 5 january 1920.
@LWV11 Several times I agreed, that Poland was a much nicer country, that Bolsheviks were evil. I absolutely have no problem with admitting that my country did something wrong, neither do I have a problem with admitting that another country was right and/or was a victim (like Poland in 1794 or 1939, or 1943 Volyn massacre). But in you picture of the world your country was always right, always "just returned its territories". Isn't it childish?
@akchicago21 Differency is here: only ukrainian nationalists are our enemies, not ukrainian people( I am speaking about people from Western uA - Eastern Poland, not about Crimea, Doneck , eastern regions).
More, UPA - oUN also is an enemy of them itself.
But russian people is not our friend, there are not so much close between us and russians.
@LWV11 who told you that Russian people are your enemy? I lived in Poland (in Lower Silesia) as a kid, studied Polish language (I was doing pretty well, I think at that time I didn't have any accent) and culture. Now I live in the US, and have many polish fellows and even friends. I also have Polish relatives.
If you are talking about political relations between Russia and Poland now, I have to admit - our government policy toward Poland is often completely idiotic. Sad, but true.
@LWV11 Nowadays you have Ukrainian central government in Kiev. Did they ever apologize for Volyn massacre? Or did they at least admit it? I never heard of it.
Russian side at least admitted Katyn massacre, this point of view is in school books and media, and even Russian president and parliament called it to be a crime. Very few people deny it, they are real marginals.
@LWV11 Please, go to Ukrainian and Russian Wikipedia, and compare, what your "Natural Ally" says about Volyn Massacre and what your "enemy" says. Enjoy the difference.
I am really curious what you think about it.
if it is difficult for you to read Russian or Ukrainian, I can help.
Dear author, there is a historical mistake in your video. The picture "Orlęta Lwowskie" displayed at 0:44 is related to Polish-Ukrainian War (1918-1919), not to Polish-Soviet War. The picture displays young polish defenders of Lwow at hte time when the Ukrainians were trying to deliberate/occupy/take control (select whatever you like) over Lwow.
russians had not own native land. Because you Moskva was gifted by mongols to their faithful and submissive vassals;
by origin you are ugro-mordovian-finnish mix, not slavic people. your history started from Peter First, who attacked his slavic neighbors, from this time this tribal mix declared himself as "slavic people". So nothing compare russians to civilized neighbors
what is difference between russians and bolszewics?what change, that few russians were on polish side? russians were and are enemies of poles, ukrainian and bielorussian people.
Huge difference. Soviets were Dzierżyński (Pole), Stalin (Georgian), Lenin (mixed background). Soviets were enemies of Russians, Poles, Ukrainians and Belorussians.
To all others, once again I want to stress that this was Polish-Soviet war, not Polish-Russian war. Russians were fighting also at our side; there were also Polish traitors who fought in soviet army (andformed "soviet polish republic" allied with soviets. I feel only warm feelings to Russians (not to Soviets!). If any Russian feels offended by anything I wrote, I offer my apologise. But this does not change historical facts, and does not transform soviet propaganda into history.
Nie, tak samo jak nie był Ruskiem Dzierżyński. Rozumiesz? Napisałeś, że Dzierżyński "Was born in Russian empire". Co to miało znaczyć? Że nie był przez to Polakiem? Był. I organizował CzeKa. Walczyliśmy właśnie z taką międzynarodową zgrają Polaków, Rosjan, Łotyszy, Żydów i innych -- czyli z sowietami. Po naszej stronie walczyli Rosjanie, Białorusini, Ukraińcy. Trudno to pojąć? Prowadziliśmy wojnę z sowietami. Prawda, że po wyprawie kijowskiej sowieci nagle zaczęli się odwoływać do
@szopen76 The Russian Soviets didn't easily just stroll in and take power. They must have gotten votes from the parliament and the people. So stop trying to make "Russia" seem innocent. The Soviets spoke Russian had Russian blood did Russian things. You can't just say they were just Soviets. They were Russian Soviets, and that is a historical fact that you can not CHANGE. It was impossible for Poles to fight with the Russian Soviets They couldn't speak Russian and Russian Soviets hated Poles.
Panie Szanowny, pisze Pan bzdury. Sprzeczne z prawdą historyczną na dodatek. Kim był ten bandyta Dzierżyński? Kosmita? Kim byli "czerwoni ułani"? Indianami?
Były. Nie czytał Pan w szkole Żeromskiego ? Przecież rosyjski był językiem urzędowym. W szkołach wykładano po rosyjsku kupę przedmiotów. Ktoś, kto mieszkał pod zaborem rosyjskim i był człowiekiem wykształconym, musiał rosyjski znać.
Note I quoted here only soviet and communist data. I do not quote the data about soviet deportations in 1939/41, since MortalDeath could pretend that they are propaganda.
in 1934 Poland signed non-agression pact with Germany. Exactly the same pact Poland signed in 1932 with Soviet Union. Poland had not participated in Munchen (despite wishes of our politicians - to our shame). Polish annexation of zaolzie was against Munchen. It was only brilliantly used by Hitler in his propaganda.
OK, But SU also had non-aggression pact. Our pacts hadn't diffrences. I know about our pact in 1932, BUT YOU DIDN'T SUPPORTED IT. YOU HAD ANTI-SOVIET POLICY AND SUPPORTED GERMANY. Poland get part of Czech in 1938, you like Germany get Czech territory
What do you mean we didn;t? In 1934 immedietely after non-agression pact with Germany we prolonged the pact to the 1945 year. The official doctrine of Poland of that time was "equal distances" that is, exactly the same relationship with Germany and USSR. Also we didn't support Germany -- in Munchen Poland wanted to participate, but great powers refused, saying that Polish and Hungarian claims will be subject of another Great-Powers conference. To be continued..
"prolonged the pact" I mean we prolonged the pact with USSR. Timing was: Poland signed non-agression pact with USSR in 1932. In 1934 non-agression pact with Germany. And then in 1934 we prolonged non-agression pact with USSR.
Poland blockedALL soviet tryin to created anti-Hitler coalition for all 30s, Poland supported German interests in Ligue of Nations. Also yoi had plannin war against USSR and kept our lands which you occupied in 1919-1920. Look on your policy of 30s, aren't papers. You had pro-German and anti-oviet policy
You had plans WITH Germany against USSR. We offered you together plans AGAINST German aggression, but you so trust to Hitler... also you didn't want lost lands which you occupied in 1920. Munchen - BUT WHY YOU OCCUPIED PART OF CZECH LANDS WHICH NEVER BELONGED YOU? and you give to us accusations what we returned our lands in 1940
@M0rtalDEATH888 Why did you occupy Polish lands that's not yours? Those Polish German Plans were just Hitlers goal, just like the Polish Soviet Plans, but guess what? Poland won't cooperate with neither Soviets or Nazis. Stop exaggerating the truth, plus what about the Russian German pact before 1938?
@M0rtalDEATH888 You arguments has no backup, it's making yourself look stupid. I mean you basically now just saying "We're good and they're bad" We all know History, but people like you just make up their own. What's next, Britain was working on a secret plan with Italy to invade america?
I given your some facts which modern policy of poland has "forget". You know only polish history where "poland always was Russian victim, but in real it's your attacked us for all times!
What's next, Britain was working on a secret plan with Italy to invade america?
It's your fucking bullshit like "Russia attacked poland in 1920" or "Russia attacked us with Hitler".
@M0rtalDEATH888 And Germany bombed England, or the Soviet attacked Finland is probably also bullshit to you, what about Roosevelt planning Pearl Harbor? Or a Nazi revolution in Yugoslavia? Tell me more please.
.. continued... But Poland's policy was that Poland must be equal partner, and can't be subject to any conference, and that Poland will be against any "Great Power" system in Europe.
Besides, politician were concerned, that Germany may demand Danzig in exchange for Zaolzie. That's way Poland decided to act unilateraly, AGAINST Germany. Hitler was however brilliant politician (bastard he was), and was able to convince the world that it was exactly the opposite.
Danzig is city which you occupied from Germany in 1920 (+-). At start you really had some anti-German plans but only you didn't want return lands which you occupied in 1920. From 1934-1939 you are best friend of Hitler. If you didn't blocked our plans Hitler could be destroyed in start of the war
Go and find some books. I am tired of that discussion, since you know nothing and you want to know nothing. After the war soviets deported millions of Poles from Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, which were forcibly resettled to the areas taken from Germany. Then in 1956 there was another round, and once again hundreds of thousands of Poles went to Poland. If you think all of them were Polish nazis, then nothing and nobody will help you. Definetely, not me.
Of course, because before your occupation THERE NO POLES. All who was Pilsudsky's and Hitler's slaves! Of course, polish dream about rcechpospolita ot mozha do mozha is living yet!
Part of my family lived in what is now Belarus for at least 400 years. They were expelled in 1945. You called me liar. As I said, there is no point with discussion with someone like you.
@szopen76 Mortaldeath's a Soviet, who won't admit to the truth, it's probably no point in arguing with someone who lives in their own imaginary history, so your right, there's no point in continuing this.
You must drunk less. I only crush polish myths about the war of 1919-1920 (not 1920 like you think), about poland before WWII, about Partitions. Look my channel and you will know some new historical fats which were before USSR
YOUR COUNTRY OCCUPIED RUSSIAN LANDS FOR 400 YEARS. Now it are Belarus and Ukraine. Polish are foreign on these lands. Where were your family in 1919 when you conquered these land? You only remember old polish myths!
@M0rtalDEATH888 Only according you the Communist records, but even Pilsudski was born in eastern Poland, the part that the Soviets stole from us. You saying there were no poles yet gives me a right to say there were no Russians in Moscow, so why the hell do the Russians have control of Moscow then?
ESATERN POLAND IS LANDS OF UKRAINE AND BELARUS. IT'S ANCIENT RUSSIAN LANDS WHICH YOU OCCUPIED YET IN XII C. YOU ALSO OCCUPIED IT IN 1919 BUT WE RETURNED IT IN 1939. POLES REALLY NO THERE BEFORE YOUR OCCUPATION. THERE WERE RUSSIANS WHICH PILSUDSKY KILLED
LOOK ON THE MAP OF RUS'. MOSCOW LANDS (YET WITHOUT THE CITY) ALWAYS BELONGED TO RUSSIA. SO, YOU ARE FOOL SUCCER!
In addition, in first soviet occupation according to NKVD archives, hundreds of thousands of Poles, but also jews, Belarussians, Ukrainians etc were deported. For example, families of the military stuff; stamp collectors; members of local unions; clerks; officials; etc.
In the so called "first repatriation", in 1944/45, more than 200 thousands Poles left Belarus, and more than 170 thousands left Lithuania. In so called second repatriation 1955/59, 46 thousands left Lithuania, while 100 thousands left Belarus. Note, that after those 300 thousands Poles left Belarus, there were in 1959-- according to official Soviet census!!! -- almost 600 thousands Poles in Belarus, most of them in Grodno area.
Modern official Lithuanian statistics show, that Poles form majority in region around Vilnius, and 20% of the city. There are 235 thousands of Poles in Lithuania, 6,7% of population. most of them lives nearby Vilnius. It's after expulsion of tens of thousands of Poles and soviet deportations
And this official statistics show, that after massive deportation (300 thousands deported!), officially there were still 538 thousands Poles in Belarus, mostly in Grodno area. It means, that this region had Polish majority. Or maybe you think soviet statistics are Polish propaganda. That would fit you well.
hahahhaha. It are all your nazi died in WWII.western Belarus has only 10% poles before your occupation and near 80% after! I given your soviet statistic. It's dislike your data
In first soviet census from 1959 there wer 538,881 Poles in Belarus. This was already agyer two waves of expulsion (my family was expelled in 1945, but in 1956 a lot of Poles got a possibility yo leave Belarus and go to Poland), and after Soviet occupation in 1939/41 (when literaly tens of thousands of Poles were deported). Most of them lived in Grodno area. Today Grodno region has milion inhabitans, officially in last census 25% of them are Poles.
I know a lot of decent Russians, but I noticed, that there is a -- hopefully -- small fraction of Russians, who always think they made no fault in history, everything is always the fault of others, everything which shows them in bad light is propaganda. And when arguments ends, you start spitting names like "Polish nazi". It's good that in my experience people like you a tiny minority in Russia, and most Russians I know are totally different than you.
Propaganda is polish myths where poland is unhappy victim ever. Do you think dictator pilsudsky wasn't polish nazi? O, maybe some Russians wish about Europe hyena poland at 1919-1939?
Polish is not victim. It is you who pretend that Russia is eternel victim and always innocent. Not to mention that Pilsudski was not nazi. And I wonder why your 1918 offensive was called "Target Vistula", if it's aim were not conquest of Poland....
Yes, polish are occupants. Give me examples when Russia was occupant. Pilsudsky was best friend of Hitler. Hitler was on his funeral. Polish aggression against USSR started in 1919
@szopen76 You could also argue it started when the Russians began the general push eastwardand buildup for war, then you could argue breaking the treaty of Brest started the war, and if that was true then the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand started the war!
@M0rtalDEATH888 you want to liberate all - even the Finns. you liberate us well with the Germans in 1939 (half to half:) ). you are wonderful. in 1920 wanted to liberate all of Europe. and so seriously - hit the Bolshevik
Except that it was USSR which started the war, by attacking Polish forces (the first battle was when Red Army attacked Polish self-defense units in Vilnius). Next pretty much until Kiev offensive Polish forces were winning, with help of Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian forces.
It's poland attacked us in 1919. Poland occupied Brest in February! In summer you occupied ALL Belarus! Polish winning with help British and France forces, forces of Intervention!
But your offensive started earlier. In February we were already counterattacking. And Belarus is not Russia. We had very small help from France (few instructors) and almost no from Great Britain. But we later have help from Ukrainians, Belarussians and even Russians.
In February YOU STARTED ATTACK ON RUSSIA WHICH HAD REVOLUTION! Also you supported Reds until white army won. Belarus and Ukraine had Federative relationships withRussia when you attacked them. FEDERATIVE! Yes, near 80-90% of your army were from France and Britain! Yes, Ukrainian nazi from Austria-Hungria supported you in the mid of war! Yousupported reds and you received what you wanted!
But you attacked us in January 1919. In my world, January is before February. Maybe in the world you live in it's different. Also, you are talking about communist Ukraine -- The Ukraine of Petlura was allied withPoland.
We didn't support the reds. Moreover, except Haller's army our army dind't come from France and Britain. I don't know what you are smoking, but you should quit, go to the library and read some serious scientific literature, instead of propaganda brochures.
We DIDN'T attacked anybody in January. You started attack in February when you defend yet creating borders! Russian army haven't power for continue civil war. Also you refused took peace when you had attack, but when Russia started attack and you was on our lands you wanted peace. Pilsudsky said about "great polan from Baltic to Black sea". It's stupid elder polish dream. Petlura had only part modern ukraine. Western part!Austro-Hungry
You DID attacked in January. In fact your operation "Target Vistula" started earlier. In January the 5th you took Vilnius after fights with Polish self-defense units. And go read something about Pilsudski -- this is not his words. He wanted independent Ukraine.
January 1 - After Germans left Vilno Polish army occupied it, February 9 - Polish occupied Brest. When it "started earlier"? It's only polish propaganda. Read wikipedia! You did occupied Vilnius on 1st January, we only 5th and Vilnius NEVER belonged Poland (only Lith), but belonged to Russia. Yes, Pilsudsky words about poland from Baltic to Black sea. He wanted depend from Poland ukraine! More lands which he want occupied like Poland ever wanted!
Not Polish army occupied -- the local population started an uprising. Vilnius was majority Polish city, the next largest group were Jews, almost no Russians. It's like saying Polish army occupied Warsaw or Lublin. The Villnius did belong to the Polish state - for starters, 3rd May constitution declared unified Polish state.
You also was in war against White --> supported Reds. France and Britain had atcive helping to Poland in this aggression. I'm sorry what poland think what her own propaganda are "orginally of history". You ever like "unhappy victim of Russian imperialism". It's so funny words!
You should read less propaganda, but go to some decent library and read some books written by real historians. In fact in Russia you have a lot of decent historians too -- it's sad that instead of reading them, you are basing your knowledge on some propaganda.
Does Wiki is propaganda. So, I think POLISH SCHOOL BOOKS AREN'T PROPAGANDA!and read some books written by real historians - It's good idea for you. Read more NOT-POLISH HISTORICALS (British,France etc)a lot of decent historians too - Examples, please. It's sad what all what you can say are only polish state propaganda!
That's the problem with a lot of you Russians (not all! I met a lot of decent Russians and in general I like Russians). You Russians keep whining. It's never your fault, it's always those evil Poles who attacked you. And you are always soooo innocent. Like a little whining boy, who is always innocent.
It's problems has name "polish propaganda". These "unhappy" poles always were victim of Russia. Atavism, Time of Trouble, Civil war - You attacked us ONLY WHEN we had anarchy inside. Poland always was occupant and 1772 was answer on occupation of XII-XIV cc. 1939 was answer on occupation of 1919-1920. It were happy moments
Sure. And you are never to be blamed. Ivan Grozny attack on us in XVI century was also an answer for something. 1634 attack was also revenge for something. 1650s attack also was a revenge. Heck, 1919-1920 war which was started by your offensive was somehow our fault! Vilnius, which had majority Polish population, suddenly was "Polish occupied". Operation "Target Vistula" was just a propaganda. Soviet Ukraine was the only true Ukraine, while our allies not.
1)Read my channel about our wars. 2) BEFORE Ivan Gozny you stolen our lands for atavism.1631-1634 - Smolensk war and trying to return Smolensk which you occupied in 1612. 1650 -attack on your attack vs Ukraine.1919 - Pilsudsky started war with wishing occupied Ukraine and Belarus.Entente helped you!Belarus and Ukraine HAVEN"T polish population when you occupied their west .Soviet ukraine originally was our alli, but after was your. UNR & ZUNR are2 diffrent ukraines
You lie when you said that "western Belarus had no polish population". My family came from the modern Belarus. We were expelled after the war. Part of my family still ives there, and still in their village majority of the population is Polish. My family lived there for at least 200 years before the war. And again, this war was started by you. What you were doing in Vilnius, in city with majority Polish population? I guess there is no point in discussing with you.
There was ONLY 10% before your occupation and near 80% after your occupation!!! You are lyah, isn't Belarussian. Dou you polish nazi of pilsudsky? It are only remains of polish occupants! Did You family are polish kings which conquered these lands?And again Poland attacked us at 1919 under Entente Intervention. It's fact. Look Wiki or some another NOT POLISH sites!Vilnius with Lithuanian population. It's also belonged us before WWI. It's only stupid polish myths!
According to German census carried in 1916, Poles were 56% of he population of the city, Belarussians 6%.
It's a fact that it was you who attacked us. According to your logic, we attacked you when we liberated Warsaw, since it belonged to Russia before WWI. As for modern Polish populaiton in Belarus, it is about 400.000 according to the official data, almost all in Grodno area. As I said, no point in discussion with you, because you don;t believe official statistics, history
It's German statistic at WWI. There was only 10% of poles! Yes, we attacked you and free Russian Kiev from poles occupants. You always was an aggressor!You "liberated Warsaw" after we liberated Kiev. It was our counter-attack for your aggression! You only occupants in Belarus!I don't believe polish fucking propaganda
P.S. Nikolai II wanted recreated Poland after WW yet in 1914, but you wanted MORE lands
So, Soviet official census is Polish fucking propaganda. German census is Polish fucking propaganda. Kiev, capital of Ukraine, is Russian. Your attack on Vilnius was not attack at all. When we liberated Warsaw from German occupation in 1917, it was attack on Russia probably, since before the war Warsaw was in Russia, and anyway, I am not surprised.
Fucking propaganda is poland like victim in WWII. Our attack on OUR lands was an attack? Kiev was given to ukraine in 1920 AFTER your aggression+Ukraine had federative realtions with Russia.Germans left it in 1918 and you started attack on Ukraine and Belarus for zhechpospolita ot mozha do mozha. Nikolai II wanted recognize poland (WITHwarsaw) after WW. It should be mistake
Can't you accept the fact that without German help you'll never be able to conquer Eastern Europe? Poor Russians, Piłsudski took THEIR lands. Look at the map in 1619 and recognize our modesty.
Can't you accept the fact that without German help you'll never be able to conquer Eastern Europe?
?????
Without "German help" you should be a litter. USA conquered Western Europe like we "conquered" Eastern. War was planning like war German vs USSR. Remember 1934-1939! There was only trying started war German and USSR. Pilsudsky was dictator. He killed more Russians. Also he conquered lands which were under POLISH OCCUPATION XII-XVII before GREAT PARTITIONS!
Nope, you have to seek alliance with Germany due to geopolitic situation. Erasing Poland, along with Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and the Baltic states is your target. Don't say that we were beneficients of German help, it is just an outrageous lie. Unfortunately, Germany was always hostile to us, and as the greatest power in Europe, they beat us (especially financially) a great many times, with a little help of Russia.
Yes, all lands of Russian Empire which were occupied by Europe Intervention we wanted returned. All of them were our law part before 1920. Poland was 1st Hitler's ally (1934). You supported Hitler and he supported you. Everyone beaten you in ALL wars. Only when you had coward interventions you had some wins. Russia always fucked you in every holes!
You have no idea whats mean "ally" That was Non-Aggression Pact, we have similiar non-aggression pact with your soviet Russia. But the pact was broken by the Soviet Union on September 17 - 1939. Read some books cause your'e young and indoctrinated.
OK, but Russia also had only NON-AGGRESSION PACT. Any questions? You had non-aggression with us and Germany, we had non-aggression with you and Germany. Poland had anti-Soviet policy for all 30s. Also you attacked Czech and was for Germany in Nation Ligue. Remember what Poland did before WWII
Poland don't exist on euuropean maps because of Germans, Austrians and Russians and don't forget what want to do your Soviet Russia with our Poland and whole Europe in 1920 after just 2 years of our independence.
Poland don't exist on euuropean maps because her aggressions against Russia in Middle time. What Poland did in 1919 when she attacked Soviet Ukraine and Belarus (which were in federative relations with Russia)
I meant that you talk like some of my compatriots - you tend to generalise too much and you're highly emotional in your statements.
Soviet Union was hostile to all its neighbours due to type of government. We could talk with "White" Russia, but "White" Russia was delusional and believed that they would keep the empire in its old borders. We had no choice (I don't count surrendering to Ukraine (?!)).
Remark - It polish and another neighbours were hostile to SU. At our Civil war you fought on Red Army side NOT WHITE ARMY! Nikolai II wanted recreated Poland yet in 1914 but after war. You can didn't attacked us in 1919. Poland attacked SU in 1919 for borders from sea to sea. It's old polish dream against Russia, so it was Polish-Russian war. What you understood under "Soviet propaganda"?
Nikolai II didn't want to recognize Poland. He wanted to keep it as a part of Russian Empire (Priwislanskiy Krai) with British and French help. The bolsheviks were the first to accept Polish independence, but it was only a tactical trick - when they won the civil war, they began to spread the Revolution across the world. Attack on SU was essential as a way to defend Polish independence outside of the ruined country. Not a Polish dream, just an strategic move.
Fuuuck jews!!
TylerAssady 1 month ago
Dlaczego w filmie o Polakach-dla Polaków dajesz Angielskie napisy? Przecaj te szajbusy nie wiedzą nie wiedzą o tej bitwiei mają to w dupie ;p
TheFanthomasStudio 2 months ago
I love how they put that Poland saved Europe from Soviet Communism yet during the 60's Half of Europe was Socialist. ;) yet many still are internationalism will never die comrades.
KGBspartan4 3 months ago
0:44 ten obraz jest z 2 wojny swiatowej walki polsko ukrainskie o lwów patrz co wrzucasz
115squad 4 months ago
The real problem is that there was NO REFERENDUM about the eastern borders of Poland. Thus the Poles were only 60% in rzeczpospolita
radurambo 5 months ago
WIECZNA CHWAŁA POLSCE i WOLNEJ EUROPIE, ruska swołocz azjatycka ZA URAL !!!
fabers185 6 months ago
@fabers185 In fact, you're as 'Asiatic' as them, you moron. Stop spreading your stupid hate and get out of here.
BabylonianSage 5 months ago
@BabylonianSage To Polska i Europa ma być wdzięczna ruskiej swołoczy azjatyckiej, że chcieli zniszczyć Europę? - oni dalej tak myślą i chcą.
fabers185 5 months ago
jozef kowalski is the last veteran living from this war
ninja067 9 months ago
@VChapaev which territory you calling "Ukraine"? If Doneck, may be, this is more russian land.
But Western UA (old Rus Czerwienska) has nothing common to Russia.
LWV11 9 months ago
Russian Wikipedia: "Катынский расстрел - массовые казни пол. граждан...осуществлённые весной 1940г ... НКВД СССР"
Katyn massacre - mass execution of Polish citizens in 1940 by ... NKWD USSR.
Ukrainian Wikipedia: "Волинська трагедія — один із кривавих епізодів укр.-пол. конфлікту..Дії поляків, які спричинили конфлікт..Першими почали конфлікт поляки"
Translation: Wolyn massacre - one of bloody episodes if ukr.- pol. relations..Polish deeds that caused the conflict..Poles started conflict first".
akchicago21 9 months ago
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akchicago21 10 months ago
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akchicago21 10 months ago
@LWV11 This phrase means exactly what it means.
akchicago21 10 months ago
a ja tam nawet lubie ruskich huj im w dupe za historie ale ogólnie są ok
"Naród wspaniały tylko ludzie kurwy" J. Piłsudski
ProFideRegeEtLege 10 months ago
@ProFideRegeEtLege hehe..jednу okrucieństwo za innym - to jest ruska historija..huj im w dupe ))
LWV11 9 months ago
what movie are those scenes in the last part from?
belgian469 10 months ago
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olekman12 10 months ago 2
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olekman12 10 months ago
When the Red Army crossed Polish border and advanced to Warsaw, it turned into a patriotic war for polish people, since the very existence of Polish state was threatened. But the beginning of the war definitely had elements of a military adventure - Piłsudski wanted to take as much advantage of the situation as it was possible. Conclusion - Poland was not a pure victim in this particular case. Do not take me wrong, for example in 1795 Poland was a pure victim. I am just trying to be unbiased.
akchicago21 10 months ago
I am Russian, but speak Polish, love Poland and polish culture. Honestly, the film looks a bit biased, well it says truth, but not all truth. After the WWI several empires collapsed and Poland got it's chance. Red Russia wanted to restore it's "historical borders", and Poland did exactly the same. It was Polish army who advanced first to the east (there were some reason, of course, but they always are). When the tide turned Red Army didn't mind to occupy not only Poland but Europe in addition.
akchicago21 10 months ago
@akchicago21 Dont be so naivy, target of bolszewics was total revolution in Europe.
LWV11 10 months ago
@LWV11 Well, ok it was.
But does it automatically makes everyone around innocent in all cases?
Does it immediately prove that Plisudski didn't want to extend Polish territory as far as possible?
Around that time (1918/1919) there was a war between Ukraine and Poland. Both sides were not Bolsheviks. But they found enough reasons to start war.
If Bolsheviks were devils, it doesn't mean that everyone around them was an angel.
Do not be so naive.
akchicago21 10 months ago
@akchicago21 What means for you "to extend Polish territory as far as possible"?
I think, you dont include Lwow, Stanislawow in "extending territories"?
This is native polish lands
Natural ally of Poland might be independent Ukraine.
LWV11 10 months ago
@LWV11 "Natural ally" sounds nice in youtube, but in reality polish-ukrainian relations are very far from perfection, and probably are more complicated them polish-russian relations.
In 1918 two "Natural allies" started a war. And you know this fact very well.
Moreover - I never heard that Ukranian side apologize (or at least admitted as a fact) for Volyn masacre, though even Russians apologize (ok, at least admitted) that Katyn was a massacre.
Polish-ukrainian relations are pretty complicated.
akchicago21 10 months ago
@akchicago21 right, relations with Ukraine are complicated, but what it has to bolszewics' invasion?
It was not war against ukrainians, only against red army.
A lot of ukrainians also participated in this war against Sowietow.
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 I just gave it as an example, that polish relations with almost all neighbors (not only Soviets) at that time was tough. In 1939 or 1894 Poland was a pure victim I completely agree. But 1919 is a bit different story. It was polish army that advanced to the east first. And you know it very well. I have never ever heard explanation, why polish army advanced to the east. May be you can explain me?
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 First, polish army acted on behalf of his ally, Ukrainian government.
Second, Poles did dirty job against bolszewics, what other europeans did not..
Next, without polish strike Sowiets might start this war before, dont forget about their empiry and imperialist ideas. It was like race between Stalin and Hitler, when Hitler attacked first...
War was in an air....
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 If you ask an average polish person, he thinks the war started right near Warsaw, when Bolsheviks came there. You never can hear, that it was polish side, that advanced first. Never. Why not say all truth? I guess the answer is very simple - the fact, that polish army advanced first is very inconvenient. Then you have to say something like "it was dirty job against Bolsheviks" or "it was a preventive attack" - anyway you have to say something awkward. To look a victim is much nicer.
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 I told you before , "it was dirty job against Bolsheviks" or "it was a preventive attack".
But in the same time, it was support to Ukrainian Central Gov.
Lenin's ideas about seizing of Europe, starting from Ukr and Pol, were not secret.
But why you so nervous about action in Ukraine? It was not attack agains Russia.
Because Ukraine is not Russia, right?
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 Well, Pilsudskiy ideas were not secret too. At that time (1918-1920) Poland had wars with 4(!) of it's neighbors. Of course, Bolsheviks were devils, and I agree with that.
But Pilsudsky in turn can hardly be called an angel or even Mohatma Gandhi of his time. That was a war between a maniac (Bolsheviks) and a cardsharp (Pilsudky).
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 Can you explain me, how russians(bolszewics) were involved in conflict in Ukraine?
Ukraine is not a part of Russia, polish army occupied Kiev, not Riazan, f.e.
So, why russians, what is their role in this war?
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 All I wanted was to show that there was something in Pilsudsky attitudes that made him fight with Polish neighbors. With Czechoslovakia, with Lithuania and with (Western)Ukraine - all those countries were not under Bosheviks. Nevertheless, there were wars with them.
In Polish-Bolshevik war there was not only Bolshevik guilty, but partly - Pilsudski also.
Very simple statement.
If you are not agree - I understand.
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 You show nothing. You did not answer any my concrete reason.
Any war has own reason, It is not a point, that attacker is always guilty.
Still, I dont understand, what is role of bolszewics in polish actions in Central Ukraine.
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 3 big empires collapsed. Several new countries emerged. There were many places with mixed population. Pilsudsky as a Polish patriot wanted to extend Polish territory to all such places, plus to places that once upon a time were polish. And he was trying to do this with military power, not with talks.
He was a real Polish patriot, my full respect to this great man.
But, please don't tell my about saving Europe from Bolsheviks.
He didn't care about both Europe and Bolsheviks. Not at all.
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 Pilsudski told you, about what he carried? Dont be child..
He told: Without independent Ukraine will not strong Poland.
Believe me, hw bothered more about russian expansion than any other european statesman.
Because shortest way from Moscow to Berlin goes through Warsaw
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 Shortest way from Tehran to New York goes through Warsaw as well. Does it mean, that you sit and think about saving America from Iranian terrorists? I don't think so. You care about much more pragmatic things.
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 So much words, and nothing concrete. It is feature of enigmatic russian soil...right?
LWV11 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@akchicago21 Because victory of Poland in Polish-Soviet war 1920 Baltic states like Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia saved his independence. Polish-Latvian operation against the Bolshevik forces end with victory on Battle of Daugavpils 5 january 1920.
licicaviki 4 months ago
@LWV11 Several times I agreed, that Poland was a much nicer country, that Bolsheviks were evil. I absolutely have no problem with admitting that my country did something wrong, neither do I have a problem with admitting that another country was right and/or was a victim (like Poland in 1794 or 1939, or 1943 Volyn massacre). But in you picture of the world your country was always right, always "just returned its territories". Isn't it childish?
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 First point, about which territories we are speaking?
Native border of polish territories in 1920 was Stanislawow , Czernowcy.
Far to east locates ukrainian lands.
LWV11 9 months ago
@akchicago21 Differency is here: only ukrainian nationalists are our enemies, not ukrainian people( I am speaking about people from Western uA - Eastern Poland, not about Crimea, Doneck , eastern regions).
More, UPA - oUN also is an enemy of them itself.
But russian people is not our friend, there are not so much close between us and russians.
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 who told you that Russian people are your enemy? I lived in Poland (in Lower Silesia) as a kid, studied Polish language (I was doing pretty well, I think at that time I didn't have any accent) and culture. Now I live in the US, and have many polish fellows and even friends. I also have Polish relatives.
If you are talking about political relations between Russia and Poland now, I have to admit - our government policy toward Poland is often completely idiotic. Sad, but true.
akchicago21 9 months ago
@akchicago21 In 1918 two "Natural allies" started a war. And you know this fact very well...
Right, but not 100%.
ukrainian revolt in Lwow's region was not the same as actions of Ukrainian central government in Kiev.
LWV11 9 months ago
@LWV11 Nowadays you have Ukrainian central government in Kiev. Did they ever apologize for Volyn massacre? Or did they at least admit it? I never heard of it.
Russian side at least admitted Katyn massacre, this point of view is in school books and media, and even Russian president and parliament called it to be a crime. Very few people deny it, they are real marginals.
akchicago21 9 months ago
@LWV11 Please, go to Ukrainian and Russian Wikipedia, and compare, what your "Natural Ally" says about Volyn Massacre and what your "enemy" says. Enjoy the difference.
I am really curious what you think about it.
if it is difficult for you to read Russian or Ukrainian, I can help.
akchicago21 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Dear author, there is a historical mistake in your video. The picture "Orlęta Lwowskie" displayed at 0:44 is related to Polish-Ukrainian War (1918-1919), not to Polish-Soviet War. The picture displays young polish defenders of Lwow at hte time when the Ukrainians were trying to deliberate/occupy/take control (select whatever you like) over Lwow.
akchicago21 10 months ago
russians had not own native land. Because you Moskva was gifted by mongols to their faithful and submissive vassals;
by origin you are ugro-mordovian-finnish mix, not slavic people. your history started from Peter First, who attacked his slavic neighbors, from this time this tribal mix declared himself as "slavic people". So nothing compare russians to civilized neighbors
LWV11 11 months ago
@LWV11
By that logic we Poles are not Slavic too, because Russians genetically are very similar to Polish,
szopen76 10 months ago
what is difference between russians and bolszewics?what change, that few russians were on polish side? russians were and are enemies of poles, ukrainian and bielorussian people.
LWV11 11 months ago
@LWV11
Huge difference. Soviets were Dzierżyński (Pole), Stalin (Georgian), Lenin (mixed background). Soviets were enemies of Russians, Poles, Ukrainians and Belorussians.
szopen76 10 months ago
@szopen76 Putin tez jest wrog Polakow. No, i nie Polacy wymyslili Katyn. Taka jest roznica.
Ruski jest to mongoly, nie slowiane.
LWV11 10 months ago
Rozwadowski stoped soviets!
2pitR 11 months ago
chuja zrobił pilsudski a nie stoped, ja pierdole co za propaganda gorsza od sowieckiej.
2pitR 11 months ago
Lol at all these comments.
Polish aggressors?
And even if, (whch i doubt) We still keep our honour, we were never defeated by 1 army, always by "united armies"
kubacroft 1 year ago
Kurwa Polska wojna a sami angole piszą! Wypierdalać!
dziaslo201289 1 year ago
shit, when I am typing in hurry, I made so many mistakes :-). Politicians, no period before that, "that way" ,
szopen76 1 year ago
To all others, once again I want to stress that this was Polish-Soviet war, not Polish-Russian war. Russians were fighting also at our side; there were also Polish traitors who fought in soviet army (andformed "soviet polish republic" allied with soviets. I feel only warm feelings to Russians (not to Soviets!). If any Russian feels offended by anything I wrote, I offer my apologise. But this does not change historical facts, and does not transform soviet propaganda into history.
szopen76 1 year ago 6
@szopen76 Nicely said!
buildingeverything 1 year ago
@szopen76 THEY WERE RUSSIANS !!! NOT SOVIETS
Crox300 10 months ago
@Crox300
Dzierżyński too? Marchlewski? And Polish units fighting for the soviets? (Not that many of them, that's true; but there were )
szopen76 10 months ago
@szopen76 Omg, you moron Dzierżyński was born in Russia Empire when Poland was under occupation
Crox300 10 months ago
@Crox300
So was Pilsudski. And Witos. And Dmowski.
Ile Ty masz lat szczeniaku, 12?
szopen76 10 months ago
@szopen76 Pilsudski był ruskiem ?
Crox300 10 months ago
@Crox300
Nie, tak samo jak nie był Ruskiem Dzierżyński. Rozumiesz? Napisałeś, że Dzierżyński "Was born in Russian empire". Co to miało znaczyć? Że nie był przez to Polakiem? Był. I organizował CzeKa. Walczyliśmy właśnie z taką międzynarodową zgrają Polaków, Rosjan, Łotyszy, Żydów i innych -- czyli z sowietami. Po naszej stronie walczyli Rosjanie, Białorusini, Ukraińcy. Trudno to pojąć? Prowadziliśmy wojnę z sowietami. Prawda, że po wyprawie kijowskiej sowieci nagle zaczęli się odwoływać do
szopen76 10 months ago
@crox CD
.... do patriotycznej nuty, ale było to tylko przejściowe.
szopen76 10 months ago
@szopen76 The Russian Soviets didn't easily just stroll in and take power. They must have gotten votes from the parliament and the people. So stop trying to make "Russia" seem innocent. The Soviets spoke Russian had Russian blood did Russian things. You can't just say they were just Soviets. They were Russian Soviets, and that is a historical fact that you can not CHANGE. It was impossible for Poles to fight with the Russian Soviets They couldn't speak Russian and Russian Soviets hated Poles.
WojtuszewskiPL 8 months ago
@WojtuszewskiPL
Panie Szanowny, pisze Pan bzdury. Sprzeczne z prawdą historyczną na dodatek. Kim był ten bandyta Dzierżyński? Kosmita? Kim byli "czerwoni ułani"? Indianami?
szopen76 8 months ago
A już zwłaszcza tekst, że "nie umieli mówić po rosyjsku". Mimo, że wszystkie szkoły nauczały po rosyjsku, urzędnicy po rosyjsku.. eeech.
szopen76 8 months ago
@szopen76 ale w tym czasie, ja nie mislem ze ony byly uczony po rosyjsku
WojtuszewskiPL 8 months ago
@WojtuszewskiPL
Były. Nie czytał Pan w szkole Żeromskiego ? Przecież rosyjski był językiem urzędowym. W szkołach wykładano po rosyjsku kupę przedmiotów. Ktoś, kto mieszkał pod zaborem rosyjskim i był człowiekiem wykształconym, musiał rosyjski znać.
szopen76 8 months ago
Note I quoted here only soviet and communist data. I do not quote the data about soviet deportations in 1939/41, since MortalDeath could pretend that they are propaganda.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
But you forget about Soviet war in Spain vs Italy, Soviet Japan war. About Polish pact of 1934, about baltic Nazi, about Munchen pact etc etc etc
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
in 1934 Poland signed non-agression pact with Germany. Exactly the same pact Poland signed in 1932 with Soviet Union. Poland had not participated in Munchen (despite wishes of our politicians - to our shame). Polish annexation of zaolzie was against Munchen. It was only brilliantly used by Hitler in his propaganda.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
OK, But SU also had non-aggression pact. Our pacts hadn't diffrences. I know about our pact in 1932, BUT YOU DIDN'T SUPPORTED IT. YOU HAD ANTI-SOVIET POLICY AND SUPPORTED GERMANY. Poland get part of Czech in 1938, you like Germany get Czech territory
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
What do you mean we didn;t? In 1934 immedietely after non-agression pact with Germany we prolonged the pact to the 1945 year. The official doctrine of Poland of that time was "equal distances" that is, exactly the same relationship with Germany and USSR. Also we didn't support Germany -- in Munchen Poland wanted to participate, but great powers refused, saying that Polish and Hungarian claims will be subject of another Great-Powers conference. To be continued..
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
"prolonged the pact" I mean we prolonged the pact with USSR. Timing was: Poland signed non-agression pact with USSR in 1932. In 1934 non-agression pact with Germany. And then in 1934 we prolonged non-agression pact with USSR.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Poland blockedALL soviet tryin to created anti-Hitler coalition for all 30s, Poland supported German interests in Ligue of Nations. Also yoi had plannin war against USSR and kept our lands which you occupied in 1919-1920. Look on your policy of 30s, aren't papers. You had pro-German and anti-oviet policy
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@szopen76
You had plans WITH Germany against USSR. We offered you together plans AGAINST German aggression, but you so trust to Hitler... also you didn't want lost lands which you occupied in 1920. Munchen - BUT WHY YOU OCCUPIED PART OF CZECH LANDS WHICH NEVER BELONGED YOU? and you give to us accusations what we returned our lands in 1940
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 Why did you occupy Polish lands that's not yours? Those Polish German Plans were just Hitlers goal, just like the Polish Soviet Plans, but guess what? Poland won't cooperate with neither Soviets or Nazis. Stop exaggerating the truth, plus what about the Russian German pact before 1938?
buildingeverything 1 year ago
@buildingeverything
Polish aggressor must be died. Those Polish German plans were AGAINST USSR. Our pact was only in 1929 when German hasn't Nazi rulers
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 You arguments has no backup, it's making yourself look stupid. I mean you basically now just saying "We're good and they're bad" We all know History, but people like you just make up their own. What's next, Britain was working on a secret plan with Italy to invade america?
buildingeverything 1 year ago
@buildingeverything
I given your some facts which modern policy of poland has "forget". You know only polish history where "poland always was Russian victim, but in real it's your attacked us for all times!
What's next, Britain was working on a secret plan with Italy to invade america?
It's your fucking bullshit like "Russia attacked poland in 1920" or "Russia attacked us with Hitler".
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 And Germany bombed England, or the Soviet attacked Finland is probably also bullshit to you, what about Roosevelt planning Pearl Harbor? Or a Nazi revolution in Yugoslavia? Tell me more please.
buildingeverything 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
.. continued... But Poland's policy was that Poland must be equal partner, and can't be subject to any conference, and that Poland will be against any "Great Power" system in Europe.
Besides, politician were concerned, that Germany may demand Danzig in exchange for Zaolzie. That's way Poland decided to act unilateraly, AGAINST Germany. Hitler was however brilliant politician (bastard he was), and was able to convince the world that it was exactly the opposite.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Danzig is city which you occupied from Germany in 1920 (+-). At start you really had some anti-German plans but only you didn't want return lands which you occupied in 1920. From 1934-1939 you are best friend of Hitler. If you didn't blocked our plans Hitler could be destroyed in start of the war
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@szopen76
Which Soviet deportations? Polish Nazi of Pilsudsky or Baltic SS-heroes?
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Go and find some books. I am tired of that discussion, since you know nothing and you want to know nothing. After the war soviets deported millions of Poles from Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, which were forcibly resettled to the areas taken from Germany. Then in 1956 there was another round, and once again hundreds of thousands of Poles went to Poland. If you think all of them were Polish nazis, then nothing and nobody will help you. Definetely, not me.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Of course, because before your occupation THERE NO POLES. All who was Pilsudsky's and Hitler's slaves! Of course, polish dream about rcechpospolita ot mozha do mozha is living yet!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Part of my family lived in what is now Belarus for at least 400 years. They were expelled in 1945. You called me liar. As I said, there is no point with discussion with someone like you.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76 Mortaldeath's a Soviet, who won't admit to the truth, it's probably no point in arguing with someone who lives in their own imaginary history, so your right, there's no point in continuing this.
buildingeverything 1 year ago
@buildingeverything
You must drunk less. I only crush polish myths about the war of 1919-1920 (not 1920 like you think), about poland before WWII, about Partitions. Look my channel and you will know some new historical fats which were before USSR
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@szopen76
YOUR COUNTRY OCCUPIED RUSSIAN LANDS FOR 400 YEARS. Now it are Belarus and Ukraine. Polish are foreign on these lands. Where were your family in 1919 when you conquered these land? You only remember old polish myths!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 its funny... our Kresy is russian land?????? your land starts near moskwa
LWV11 11 months ago
@LWV11
Law Polish lands where in borders after 2nd Partitions. Poland was punished for ALL her aggressions.
Our lands more than Moscwa. Your lands are lands which you could occupied and took!
M0rtalDEATH888 11 months ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 kresy (it covers modern western ukraine) is native polish land. Nothing shared with moskals there.
LWV11 11 months ago
@LWV11
hahahahahahaha
ot mozha do mozha, isn't it?
M0rtalDEATH888 11 months ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 nie, chcemy tylko Kresy.
LWV11 11 months ago
@LWV11
Where is native polsh lands which never were occupied by poland before?
M0rtalDEATH888 11 months ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 Only according you the Communist records, but even Pilsudski was born in eastern Poland, the part that the Soviets stole from us. You saying there were no poles yet gives me a right to say there were no Russians in Moscow, so why the hell do the Russians have control of Moscow then?
buildingeverything 1 year ago
@buildingeverything
ESATERN POLAND IS LANDS OF UKRAINE AND BELARUS. IT'S ANCIENT RUSSIAN LANDS WHICH YOU OCCUPIED YET IN XII C. YOU ALSO OCCUPIED IT IN 1919 BUT WE RETURNED IT IN 1939. POLES REALLY NO THERE BEFORE YOUR OCCUPATION. THERE WERE RUSSIANS WHICH PILSUDSKY KILLED
LOOK ON THE MAP OF RUS'. MOSCOW LANDS (YET WITHOUT THE CITY) ALWAYS BELONGED TO RUSSIA. SO, YOU ARE FOOL SUCCER!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
In addition, in first soviet occupation according to NKVD archives, hundreds of thousands of Poles, but also jews, Belarussians, Ukrainians etc were deported. For example, families of the military stuff; stamp collectors; members of local unions; clerks; officials; etc.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Are these All who has part in your aggression in 1919?
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
In the so called "first repatriation", in 1944/45, more than 200 thousands Poles left Belarus, and more than 170 thousands left Lithuania. In so called second repatriation 1955/59, 46 thousands left Lithuania, while 100 thousands left Belarus. Note, that after those 300 thousands Poles left Belarus, there were in 1959-- according to official Soviet census!!! -- almost 600 thousands Poles in Belarus, most of them in Grodno area.
szopen76 1 year ago
Modern official Lithuanian statistics show, that Poles form majority in region around Vilnius, and 20% of the city. There are 235 thousands of Poles in Lithuania, 6,7% of population. most of them lives nearby Vilnius. It's after expulsion of tens of thousands of Poles and soviet deportations
szopen76 1 year ago
Now, of course MortalDEATH will even question those official Soviet and Belarussian statistics.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
I support official statistic and don't believe in polish lie statisctic!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
And this official statistics show, that after massive deportation (300 thousands deported!), officially there were still 538 thousands Poles in Belarus, mostly in Grodno area. It means, that this region had Polish majority. Or maybe you think soviet statistics are Polish propaganda. That would fit you well.
szopen76 1 year ago
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@szopen76 (300 thousands deported!),
hahahhaha. It are all your nazi died in WWII.western Belarus has only 10% poles before your occupation and near 80% after! I given your soviet statistic. It's dislike your data
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
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@szopen76
I support official statistic and don't believe in polish lie statistic!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
In first soviet census from 1959 there wer 538,881 Poles in Belarus. This was already agyer two waves of expulsion (my family was expelled in 1945, but in 1956 a lot of Poles got a possibility yo leave Belarus and go to Poland), and after Soviet occupation in 1939/41 (when literaly tens of thousands of Poles were deported). Most of them lived in Grodno area. Today Grodno region has milion inhabitans, officially in last census 25% of them are Poles.
szopen76 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
I know a lot of decent Russians, but I noticed, that there is a -- hopefully -- small fraction of Russians, who always think they made no fault in history, everything is always the fault of others, everything which shows them in bad light is propaganda. And when arguments ends, you start spitting names like "Polish nazi". It's good that in my experience people like you a tiny minority in Russia, and most Russians I know are totally different than you.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Propaganda is polish myths where poland is unhappy victim ever. Do you think dictator pilsudsky wasn't polish nazi? O, maybe some Russians wish about Europe hyena poland at 1919-1939?
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Polish is not victim. It is you who pretend that Russia is eternel victim and always innocent. Not to mention that Pilsudski was not nazi. And I wonder why your 1918 offensive was called "Target Vistula", if it's aim were not conquest of Poland....
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Yes, polish are occupants. Give me examples when Russia was occupant. Pilsudsky was best friend of Hitler. Hitler was on his funeral. Polish aggression against USSR started in 1919
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@VChapaev
Except that in 1920 was already lasted for a year. War started in 1919 with your offensive.
szopen76 1 year ago 2
@szopen76 You could also argue it started when the Russians began the general push eastwardand buildup for war, then you could argue breaking the treaty of Brest started the war, and if that was true then the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand started the war!
buildingeverything 10 months ago
thanks god for this war and the result. Russians sucks balls. Pathetic caountry with pathetic history
xsaav 1 year ago
@xsaav
There is a difference between Russia and soviets. 1919 was war with Soviets, a lot of Russians fought on our side too.
szopen76 1 year ago
Russia - Liers, Murderers, Terrorists and Poor Citizens. Pathetic Country.
mindseeker89 1 year ago
@mindseeker89 russia = post apocalyptic lookalike shithole
TheClarenceter 1 year ago
@mindseeker89
All myths about Russia! Well done
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
Better Dead Than Red !!!
TheMck83 1 year ago
1919 year - Pilsudsky required Polshi's maximum boundaries for 1772
7 May Polish occupied Kiev
10 June Kiev was saved from Polish occupants
4-26 July Tukhachevsky attack thrown out Polish occupants from Belarus'
Only August 1920 Soviet attacked Polish for her occupation of Western Ukraine and Belarus
Also remember what Polish did in 1919
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888 you want to liberate all - even the Finns. you liberate us well with the Germans in 1939 (half to half:) ). you are wonderful. in 1920 wanted to liberate all of Europe. and so seriously - hit the Bolshevik
przemaser2 1 year ago
@przemaser2
We "liberated" only law parts of Russian Empire which were occupied by the Intervention. You good trying liberated us in 1919 and for all 1934-1939.
1919-Polish attacked Russia and Russia kicked her ass until 1920
Pig dressed in Paris!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Except that it was USSR which started the war, by attacking Polish forces (the first battle was when Red Army attacked Polish self-defense units in Vilnius). Next pretty much until Kiev offensive Polish forces were winning, with help of Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian forces.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
It's poland attacked us in 1919. Poland occupied Brest in February! In summer you occupied ALL Belarus! Polish winning with help British and France forces, forces of Intervention!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
But your offensive started earlier. In February we were already counterattacking. And Belarus is not Russia. We had very small help from France (few instructors) and almost no from Great Britain. But we later have help from Ukrainians, Belarussians and even Russians.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
In February YOU STARTED ATTACK ON RUSSIA WHICH HAD REVOLUTION! Also you supported Reds until white army won. Belarus and Ukraine had Federative relationships withRussia when you attacked them. FEDERATIVE! Yes, near 80-90% of your army were from France and Britain! Yes, Ukrainian nazi from Austria-Hungria supported you in the mid of war! Yousupported reds and you received what you wanted!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
But you attacked us in January 1919. In my world, January is before February. Maybe in the world you live in it's different. Also, you are talking about communist Ukraine -- The Ukraine of Petlura was allied withPoland.
We didn't support the reds. Moreover, except Haller's army our army dind't come from France and Britain. I don't know what you are smoking, but you should quit, go to the library and read some serious scientific literature, instead of propaganda brochures.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
We DIDN'T attacked anybody in January. You started attack in February when you defend yet creating borders! Russian army haven't power for continue civil war. Also you refused took peace when you had attack, but when Russia started attack and you was on our lands you wanted peace. Pilsudsky said about "great polan from Baltic to Black sea". It's stupid elder polish dream. Petlura had only part modern ukraine. Western part!Austro-Hungry
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
You DID attacked in January. In fact your operation "Target Vistula" started earlier. In January the 5th you took Vilnius after fights with Polish self-defense units. And go read something about Pilsudski -- this is not his words. He wanted independent Ukraine.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
January 1 - After Germans left Vilno Polish army occupied it, February 9 - Polish occupied Brest. When it "started earlier"? It's only polish propaganda. Read wikipedia! You did occupied Vilnius on 1st January, we only 5th and Vilnius NEVER belonged Poland (only Lith), but belonged to Russia. Yes, Pilsudsky words about poland from Baltic to Black sea. He wanted depend from Poland ukraine! More lands which he want occupied like Poland ever wanted!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Not Polish army occupied -- the local population started an uprising. Vilnius was majority Polish city, the next largest group were Jews, almost no Russians. It's like saying Polish army occupied Warsaw or Lublin. The Villnius did belong to the Polish state - for starters, 3rd May constitution declared unified Polish state.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
You also was in war against White --> supported Reds. France and Britain had atcive helping to Poland in this aggression. I'm sorry what poland think what her own propaganda are "orginally of history". You ever like "unhappy victim of Russian imperialism". It's so funny words!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
You should read less propaganda, but go to some decent library and read some books written by real historians. In fact in Russia you have a lot of decent historians too -- it's sad that instead of reading them, you are basing your knowledge on some propaganda.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Does Wiki is propaganda. So, I think POLISH SCHOOL BOOKS AREN'T PROPAGANDA!and read some books written by real historians - It's good idea for you. Read more NOT-POLISH HISTORICALS (British,France etc)a lot of decent historians too - Examples, please. It's sad what all what you can say are only polish state propaganda!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
I did. Norman Davies for starters and others
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
????????????????
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
That's the problem with a lot of you Russians (not all! I met a lot of decent Russians and in general I like Russians). You Russians keep whining. It's never your fault, it's always those evil Poles who attacked you. And you are always soooo innocent. Like a little whining boy, who is always innocent.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
It's problems has name "polish propaganda". These "unhappy" poles always were victim of Russia. Atavism, Time of Trouble, Civil war - You attacked us ONLY WHEN we had anarchy inside. Poland always was occupant and 1772 was answer on occupation of XII-XIV cc. 1939 was answer on occupation of 1919-1920. It were happy moments
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Sure. And you are never to be blamed. Ivan Grozny attack on us in XVI century was also an answer for something. 1634 attack was also revenge for something. 1650s attack also was a revenge. Heck, 1919-1920 war which was started by your offensive was somehow our fault! Vilnius, which had majority Polish population, suddenly was "Polish occupied". Operation "Target Vistula" was just a propaganda. Soviet Ukraine was the only true Ukraine, while our allies not.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
1)Read my channel about our wars. 2) BEFORE Ivan Gozny you stolen our lands for atavism.1631-1634 - Smolensk war and trying to return Smolensk which you occupied in 1612. 1650 -attack on your attack vs Ukraine.1919 - Pilsudsky started war with wishing occupied Ukraine and Belarus.Entente helped you!Belarus and Ukraine HAVEN"T polish population when you occupied their west .Soviet ukraine originally was our alli, but after was your. UNR & ZUNR are2 diffrent ukraines
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
You lie when you said that "western Belarus had no polish population". My family came from the modern Belarus. We were expelled after the war. Part of my family still ives there, and still in their village majority of the population is Polish. My family lived there for at least 200 years before the war. And again, this war was started by you. What you were doing in Vilnius, in city with majority Polish population? I guess there is no point in discussing with you.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
There was ONLY 10% before your occupation and near 80% after your occupation!!! You are lyah, isn't Belarussian. Dou you polish nazi of pilsudsky? It are only remains of polish occupants! Did You family are polish kings which conquered these lands?And again Poland attacked us at 1919 under Entente Intervention. It's fact. Look Wiki or some another NOT POLISH sites!Vilnius with Lithuanian population. It's also belonged us before WWI. It's only stupid polish myths!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
According to German census carried in 1916, Poles were 56% of he population of the city, Belarussians 6%.
It's a fact that it was you who attacked us. According to your logic, we attacked you when we liberated Warsaw, since it belonged to Russia before WWI. As for modern Polish populaiton in Belarus, it is about 400.000 according to the official data, almost all in Grodno area. As I said, no point in discussion with you, because you don;t believe official statistics, history
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
It's German statistic at WWI. There was only 10% of poles! Yes, we attacked you and free Russian Kiev from poles occupants. You always was an aggressor!You "liberated Warsaw" after we liberated Kiev. It was our counter-attack for your aggression! You only occupants in Belarus!I don't believe polish fucking propaganda
P.S. Nikolai II wanted recreated Poland after WW yet in 1914, but you wanted MORE lands
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
So, Soviet official census is Polish fucking propaganda. German census is Polish fucking propaganda. Kiev, capital of Ukraine, is Russian. Your attack on Vilnius was not attack at all. When we liberated Warsaw from German occupation in 1917, it was attack on Russia probably, since before the war Warsaw was in Russia, and anyway, I am not surprised.
szopen76 1 year ago
@szopen76
Fucking propaganda is poland like victim in WWII. Our attack on OUR lands was an attack? Kiev was given to ukraine in 1920 AFTER your aggression+Ukraine had federative realtions with Russia.Germans left it in 1918 and you started attack on Ukraine and Belarus for zhechpospolita ot mozha do mozha. Nikolai II wanted recognize poland (WITHwarsaw) after WW. It should be mistake
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Can't you accept the fact that without German help you'll never be able to conquer Eastern Europe? Poor Russians, Piłsudski took THEIR lands. Look at the map in 1619 and recognize our modesty.
izotepion 1 year ago
@izotepion
Can't you accept the fact that without German help you'll never be able to conquer Eastern Europe?
?????
Without "German help" you should be a litter. USA conquered Western Europe like we "conquered" Eastern. War was planning like war German vs USSR. Remember 1934-1939! There was only trying started war German and USSR. Pilsudsky was dictator. He killed more Russians. Also he conquered lands which were under POLISH OCCUPATION XII-XVII before GREAT PARTITIONS!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@izotepion
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Look on the map of 1914 and say: which lands we occupied after WWII?
Look on the polish map before her aggressions at time of our atavism and Time of Trouble
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Nope, you have to seek alliance with Germany due to geopolitic situation. Erasing Poland, along with Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and the Baltic states is your target. Don't say that we were beneficients of German help, it is just an outrageous lie. Unfortunately, Germany was always hostile to us, and as the greatest power in Europe, they beat us (especially financially) a great many times, with a little help of Russia.
izotepion 1 year ago
@izotepion
Yes, all lands of Russian Empire which were occupied by Europe Intervention we wanted returned. All of them were our law part before 1920. Poland was 1st Hitler's ally (1934). You supported Hitler and he supported you. Everyone beaten you in ALL wars. Only when you had coward interventions you had some wins. Russia always fucked you in every holes!
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
You have no idea whats mean "ally" That was Non-Aggression Pact, we have similiar non-aggression pact with your soviet Russia. But the pact was broken by the Soviet Union on September 17 - 1939. Read some books cause your'e young and indoctrinated.
Lengyel89 1 year ago
@Lengyel89
OK, but Russia also had only NON-AGGRESSION PACT. Any questions? You had non-aggression with us and Germany, we had non-aggression with you and Germany. Poland had anti-Soviet policy for all 30s. Also you attacked Czech and was for Germany in Nation Ligue. Remember what Poland did before WWII
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Poland don't exist on euuropean maps because of Germans, Austrians and Russians and don't forget what want to do your Soviet Russia with our Poland and whole Europe in 1920 after just 2 years of our independence.
Lengyel89 1 year ago
@Lengyel89
Poland don't exist on euuropean maps because her aggressions against Russia in Middle time. What Poland did in 1919 when she attacked Soviet Ukraine and Belarus (which were in federative relations with Russia)
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
"Everyone beaten you in ALL wars(...)Russia always fucked you in every holes!"
You're more Polish than you think.
izotepion 1 year ago
@izotepion
You're more Polish than you think.
I'm not "Lyah" You assimilated only Ukrainians and Belarusians
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
I meant that you talk like some of my compatriots - you tend to generalise too much and you're highly emotional in your statements.
Soviet Union was hostile to all its neighbours due to type of government. We could talk with "White" Russia, but "White" Russia was delusional and believed that they would keep the empire in its old borders. We had no choice (I don't count surrendering to Ukraine (?!)).
izotepion 1 year ago
@izotepion
Remark - It polish and another neighbours were hostile to SU. At our Civil war you fought on Red Army side NOT WHITE ARMY! Nikolai II wanted recreated Poland yet in 1914 but after war. You can didn't attacked us in 1919. Poland attacked SU in 1919 for borders from sea to sea. It's old polish dream against Russia, so it was Polish-Russian war. What you understood under "Soviet propaganda"?
M0rtalDEATH888 1 year ago
@M0rtalDEATH888
Nikolai II didn't want to recognize Poland. He wanted to keep it as a part of Russian Empire (Priwislanskiy Krai) with British and French help. The bolsheviks were the first to accept Polish independence, but it was only a tactical trick - when they won the civil war, they began to spread the Revolution across the world. Attack on SU was essential as a way to defend Polish independence outside of the ruined country. Not a Polish dream, just an strategic move.
izotepion 1 year ago