I love how he says "wounded beaver". Can animals feel pain? Yes. Will they make noises because of it? Yes. I know for a fact how beavers act and sound, and this actually sounds just like a baby beaver (don't believe me look it up). Animals don't greive, but when they are hurt they will make noises. This is either a wounded whining beaver, or a recording of a baby beaver making noises.
They had to kill a beaver family for "resource management"? You tell me who is more human: the F&W guys who indiscriminately blew up an animal habitat or the beaver who grieved.
fish and wildlife people are just as clueless as the rest of humanity as far as caring for other wild beings go. Sometimes, they could care less about what they are really doing to animals. They have the same mentality as cops do.
humans are the only animal that cries sensitive tears. All animals can cry, but humans are the only ones who put their feelings in tears. But ALL animals have feelings and broken along I guess, they have just as much grief and hatred and jealousy that we humans have. Thats what I think.
I find it incredibly sad humans even find the need to have this fuckin debate. we are so far up our own asses i doubt we will ever be able to find our way out !!!
when i moved, my cats had to stay with family for a while. when i brought my oldest cat there, she was in her bench, and she didnt want to come out. and then she actually cried. big tears. it was soo sad and beautiful. unfortunately she died five years ago. but she was a very special cat. i still miss her.
when i moved, my cats had to with family for a while. when i brought my oldest cat there, she was in her bench, and she didnt want to come out. and then she actually cried. big tears. it was soo sad and beautiful. unfortunately she died five years ago. but she was a very special cat. i still miss her.
Haha what a stupid video stupid city people have no idea what it's like in the country we have some of those down the road from where I live and they always make that noise and no one killed any of them haha
We are an incredibly ignorant and self-absorbed species. How can we both be the most intelligent species while, at the same time, reject the notion that animals having feelings or that the ice caps are melting?
Intelligence and wisdom are not synonymous. This is demonstrable - we are ignorant due to the baggage of history. For millennia we thought we were the center of the universe. While we no longer believe this literally we still believe this figuratively. And it is destroying us.
There have always been the enlightened few who knew that we were but a gossamer part of a web beyond our imagining.
The ones who pretend to know a certain reality usually are either too insecure to contemplate otherwise, or profit from charging people admission to their own souls, or are just normal, dumb-as-stump human beings.
The best I ever saw though was this show on elephants. Not only did the young elephant literally cry out for it's dead mother due to poachers, but it wouldn't leave her side and kept trying to wake her up.
They also stated that one time the elephants spotted a dead human body in the grass just lying there and so they carefully started to put dirt over it until it was buried.
They said it was because they realized that other animals might eat the body and because they realized it was dead.
Most animals understand death. Just because humans don't understand them is their fault.
I was watching something today about prairie dogs. When a coyote killed one of the younger prairie dogs, the mother was just left standing and many of the resident prairie dogs went up to her and sort of gave like a hug/nudge and her family members locked teeth with her, however she never flinched but her eyes were glazed and you could just see the sadness that she knew she lost her "daughter"...
Everyone who lives or lived with animals, know that they grieve. Humans are so arrogant. It's the humans that are stone cole, don't feel anything and just kill and destroy everything.
Cats don't give a shit. I know from experience that a cat can die of a heart attack right in front of another and the living one goes on with life as usual.
Brad, you saw one cat who showed no visible sign of grief at the death of another cat. Your evidence might demonstrate an example of one specific cat who didn't care very much about one other specific cat. It's nowhere near enough evidence to prove your much broader claim that "cats don't give a shit."
We might predict that Rush Limbaugh wouldn't grieve very much if Barack Obama had a heart attack, but that wouldn't prove all humans are incapable of grief.
It is very natural to assume that animals grieve, but this video clip is very poor. It proves nothing it claims. How can I tell if the beaver grieves if I have never heard the sound of a beaver who doesn't grieve.
Kapritchosa, We can say the beaver is grieving because we can hear the markers of grief in his voice. This recording does not sound like a cry of physical pain. It sounds emotional.
There is an evolutionary advantage to being able to hear signs of emotional distress in an animal's call. It is not always easy to say what emotion leads an animal to cry out, but when the signs of grief are as clearly audible as they are in this sound clip, we have good reason to trust our instinctive impressions.
Thanks for answering. I can not criticize the research, just ForaTV for not posting an extended version of the clip. Liked the answer to Brad too. :-)
In my experience, they grieve. Their sight and sense of smell are different and perhaps too are their thoughts, some of which might be sharper than our own as are some of their senses.
Humans are complex animals. Why should less complex animals not also have emotions, to some extent? It would be more convenient for the human conscience if animals had no pain or emotion, of course.
My cat disappeared just over two months ago. Of course I searched far and wide for her all this time, but when I saw a fox hanging out in my backyard a few days after her disappearance, I knew what probably happened to her. I was utterly devastated, but more devastated was her sister kitty who searched for her almost constantly for a week, and than sank into a deep depression. For 3 weeks she would not eat, would not want attention. I would hear her crying at night.
God, I am sick to death of people like mysterymanolove below who have to put everything on a hierarchy, with his kind conveniently at the top and everything else downgraded in his delusional, egocentric eyes. I don't care if all animals experience the same emotions equally. What the hell does that matter? It is about our behavior as human beings, and we'll reap what we sow. Dismissal of other animals feelings only makes YOU dismissible.
I think this guy hurts his argument dramatically by saying shit like "The world's really crying out to us for help," especially after playing beaver noises. Weak, weak, weak. Who's to say the beaver wasn't really going "HEY! Where are the shit you motherfuckers at!?"
I'm going to watch the full lecture in hopes that it isn't this goofy. The case that some animals mourn their dead is really easy to make, especially with apes and elephants but this guy strikes me as a blunderer.
Its true, we endanger our arguments by anthropormorphizing the beaver's (or any other animal's) sounds without understanding the brain patterns associated to it. Still, the case for animal emotions is so concrete and has been for so long that anyone claiming otherwise is lying or ignorant.
Animals have emotions and a goddam brain. I have had a cat for 15 years dont tell me I dont know what the hell im talking about. They are our evolutionary cousins. We are so much like other primates their animal babies look so cute to us and cause in us the "mothers reaction" because primates are relatively near to us in evolutionary terms.
One more thing and then I am done, Dr. Krause shure as hell knows alot about this beaver familiy. It's like he was stalking the beavers family or something, like he had a camera in the beaver dam. I mean how else would you know the the young have just been born? They can't swim yet or anything and they definantly wouldn't be outside the dam. Anyways, food for thought.
It could also be a survival instinct, but another instinct is to stay where food is. So those counteract which would mean that the dog was genuinely frightened by you.
I'm sure the comments on here would change if the Doctor on here would have said "this beaver just got back from a party and is in a drunken stupor". Then you would really question why the beaver was moaning. Again I have no doubt that the blowing up of the damn and all that happened but to conclusively say that the beaver was grieving is rediculous. It's very persuasive though with the kind of verbal setup the Dr. uses to make you believe what he is saying.
Another thing is I'm not saying they don't experience fear and pain ect. , because they do. But do they grieve? I don't know, thats my point, he doesn't know, the beaver could have been crying out because of a huge gash in it's leg, not because it "missed his family" or whatever. And thats not to say that it can't.
Well put Mystery.... Dr. Krause said that he had never heard a beaver make these sounds before so to attribute them to any particular emotion is premature at best. I have no oppositions to his conclusions but his argument is completely anecdotal and more research should be presented.
Hopefully the research gets conducted so a more reasonable discussion of animals treatment can be had.
So is the beaver geiving because it was hurt or it lost it's familiy? It's unscientific to say that it was definantly "grieving". There is no doubt that the animal was injured and animals feel pain. How do you know that the beaver wasn't just trying to reconnect with the family by crying out to them? Again, too many questions that can't be answerd just because a beaver is wonded.
According to an NPR story I heard, wild baboons have been observed exhibiting behavior that resembles grieving after losing close relatives to predation.
This would seem to be supported by elevated levels of stress hormones found in their feces that tapered off over time in sync with the lessening of grief-like behavior.
Well we know that the beaver's family was missing & its dam was demolished so how do you know that he isnt grieving for it. Either way, its a form of emotions trying to connect-
What information were you given that I wasn't? What data do you have to suggest that the beaver wasn't just hurt by the blast but was grieving? How do you know that? You don't, and don't act like you do. It could have been calling for it's family but it doesn't conclude "grieving". Everyone knows that animals have emotions, so what if they "feel more", does that make them better than us? No.
Nobody said animals were 'better' than us is any aspect.
& its called PERSPECTIVE, learn to see it from the other side, as I am from yours. How do you assume that calling out for your family cause they are missing is not concluded as not grieving. Obviously that would be a form of grieving.
Crying out to make sure where your family is doesn't mean you are sad for their loss, you don't even know if they are gone at that point. The other think he made clear is, the beaver was wounded. You are acting like "well, since you can't disprove it, it's still a possibility", which is the weakest argument you can make.
Obviously for one thing, you cant disprove it either so you dont have much room to talk.
& you would figure that if the beaver was wounded and couldnt find any sign of its family it would grieve. Maybe you wouldnt grieve if you're family was loss but some people and animals do.
I'm not saying they don't grieve, but to say that because they get hurt and are looking for the family, they are greiving. You are concluding that the beaver is greiving based on your emotional opinion and I'm here to say you can't conclude that, neither can I. But again, just because you say "you can't rule out spirits because you can't disprove spirits" is not nessisarily an equal or valid arguement as emotions in animals. You are assuming that all animals experience the same emotions equally.
Yeah I know where youre coming from. Its hard to prove it scientifically.
Get a cat. You will find out.
I have a cat who feels happiness, anger, gratitude, frustration, sense of betrayal, smarts
Did our emotions as a human species evolve out of our need for social skills? Did we have these traits before our ape like form?
Probably, emotions give evolutionary advantages. Like love for children.. it makes sense for beavers to have it. I bet beaver is smart enough to realize family=dead
Wolves grieve from losing a pack member. In one of the books I have on them, a cougar killed a member, the pack chased the cougar up a tree for hours and after many nights(forgot exact number) the wolves behavior changed, depression, not hunting or playing. And they knew the member was dead since they saw and interacted with the corpse.
People need to read what I write. In this particular instance the beaver was injured, whos to say that the beaver wasn't just in pain. This audio alone doesn't prove anything about beavers greiving. But it's a strech to say "The world's really crying out to us for help" like doctor contends because of on beaver in a river in the middle of nowhere.
Regarding human propensity for violence: it has never ceased to amaze may that so may so called ardent Christian, Jews and Moslems--but especially Christians are so mindful of the evil and sinfulness of man--and yet don't say--gee maybe the acquisition by such a depraved race of I don't know NUCLEAR WEAPONS is really not such a good idea.
It also justifies a lot of stuff we do, such as eat animals, wear their skins, keep them in zoos to be gaped at, experiment on them, take their land, etc, etc, etc...
The main reason is why we kill others animals habitats!!?? We don't respect each other we don't respect others animals not even flora so why we see us as being good in this world. But our time will come and in that time will be late.
Sadly the idea that humanity is the "paragon of animals" is still very much alive. Though we're capable of complex thought, reason, and advanced technology. In the end fear, grief, and anger are primordial emotions.
I love how he says "wounded beaver". Can animals feel pain? Yes. Will they make noises because of it? Yes. I know for a fact how beavers act and sound, and this actually sounds just like a baby beaver (don't believe me look it up). Animals don't greive, but when they are hurt they will make noises. This is either a wounded whining beaver, or a recording of a baby beaver making noises.
ManOfTheWoods100 2 days ago
They had to kill a beaver family for "resource management"? You tell me who is more human: the F&W guys who indiscriminately blew up an animal habitat or the beaver who grieved.
xander7ful 3 weeks ago
fish and wildlife people are just as clueless as the rest of humanity as far as caring for other wild beings go. Sometimes, they could care less about what they are really doing to animals. They have the same mentality as cops do.
crpederson 3 months ago
humans are the only animal that cries sensitive tears. All animals can cry, but humans are the only ones who put their feelings in tears. But ALL animals have feelings and broken along I guess, they have just as much grief and hatred and jealousy that we humans have. Thats what I think.
AmoroZero 10 months ago
Beaver males are monogamous. They commit to one female and family.
joequirk 1 year ago
@joequirk why?
karioka2 5 months ago
@karioka2 Often animals with long vulnerable childhoods evolve monogamy. I made a video about it called "Is Monogamy Natural?"
joequirk 5 months ago
I find it incredibly sad humans even find the need to have this fuckin debate. we are so far up our own asses i doubt we will ever be able to find our way out !!!
mitzi303 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
when i moved, my cats had to stay with family for a while. when i brought my oldest cat there, she was in her bench, and she didnt want to come out. and then she actually cried. big tears. it was soo sad and beautiful. unfortunately she died five years ago. but she was a very special cat. i still miss her.
myrduck 1 year ago
when i moved, my cats had to with family for a while. when i brought my oldest cat there, she was in her bench, and she didnt want to come out. and then she actually cried. big tears. it was soo sad and beautiful. unfortunately she died five years ago. but she was a very special cat. i still miss her.
myrduck 1 year ago
Another crock of BS to stack more unwanted animals on the planet. I've lived in Canada for many years, I've never heard a beaver make that sound.
TheHonestMann 1 year ago
Haha what a stupid video stupid city people have no idea what it's like in the country we have some of those down the road from where I live and they always make that noise and no one killed any of them haha
marksamwich 1 year ago
Comment removed
sunnyxlove1990 1 year ago
I have a poem about beavers which I made a year ago. You could check it out if you want. Here's the link: authspot.com/poetry/the-beavers/
eragondiamond123 1 year ago 2
I wonder if humans possess emotions too... nah, silly thought......
ApexBozo 1 year ago
Of course, they grieve,! Jesus! They're not the 'objects' that so many humans make them out to be.
animalliberation0961 2 years ago 4
Animals are people too
REALGREYBLUE 2 years ago 3
We are an incredibly ignorant and self-absorbed species. How can we both be the most intelligent species while, at the same time, reject the notion that animals having feelings or that the ice caps are melting?
Intelligence and wisdom are not synonymous. This is demonstrable - we are ignorant due to the baggage of history. For millennia we thought we were the center of the universe. While we no longer believe this literally we still believe this figuratively. And it is destroying us.
7jerryv7 2 years ago 3
There have always been the enlightened few who knew that we were but a gossamer part of a web beyond our imagining.
The ones who pretend to know a certain reality usually are either too insecure to contemplate otherwise, or profit from charging people admission to their own souls, or are just normal, dumb-as-stump human beings.
We too, shall return to galactic gas. Not so bad.
agiyo 2 years ago
The best I ever saw though was this show on elephants. Not only did the young elephant literally cry out for it's dead mother due to poachers, but it wouldn't leave her side and kept trying to wake her up.
They also stated that one time the elephants spotted a dead human body in the grass just lying there and so they carefully started to put dirt over it until it was buried.
They said it was because they realized that other animals might eat the body and because they realized it was dead.
Harmin87 2 years ago 3
Most animals understand death. Just because humans don't understand them is their fault.
I was watching something today about prairie dogs. When a coyote killed one of the younger prairie dogs, the mother was just left standing and many of the resident prairie dogs went up to her and sort of gave like a hug/nudge and her family members locked teeth with her, however she never flinched but her eyes were glazed and you could just see the sadness that she knew she lost her "daughter"...
Harmin87 2 years ago 2
Everyone who lives or lived with animals, know that they grieve. Humans are so arrogant. It's the humans that are stone cole, don't feel anything and just kill and destroy everything.
kalicandy 2 years ago 4
the beaver is wounded,so what you hear is a beaver in pain..now if he is grieving is another question..why don't you ask the beaver
bonghitbrianws 2 years ago
Cats don't give a shit. I know from experience that a cat can die of a heart attack right in front of another and the living one goes on with life as usual.
bradwatson7324 2 years ago
Brad, you saw one cat who showed no visible sign of grief at the death of another cat. Your evidence might demonstrate an example of one specific cat who didn't care very much about one other specific cat. It's nowhere near enough evidence to prove your much broader claim that "cats don't give a shit."
We might predict that Rush Limbaugh wouldn't grieve very much if Barack Obama had a heart attack, but that wouldn't prove all humans are incapable of grief.
kevintype 2 years ago 3
It is very natural to assume that animals grieve, but this video clip is very poor. It proves nothing it claims. How can I tell if the beaver grieves if I have never heard the sound of a beaver who doesn't grieve.
Kapritchosa 2 years ago
Kapritchosa, We can say the beaver is grieving because we can hear the markers of grief in his voice. This recording does not sound like a cry of physical pain. It sounds emotional.
There is an evolutionary advantage to being able to hear signs of emotional distress in an animal's call. It is not always easy to say what emotion leads an animal to cry out, but when the signs of grief are as clearly audible as they are in this sound clip, we have good reason to trust our instinctive impressions.
kevintype 2 years ago
Thanks for answering. I can not criticize the research, just ForaTV for not posting an extended version of the clip. Liked the answer to Brad too. :-)
Kapritchosa 2 years ago
Emotion is more primitive than reason, and takes place in a more primitive part of the brain.
I'd be more surprised if they found evidence of animal reasoning.
freesk8 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
lol...
fruitsofnews 2 years ago
In my experience, they grieve. Their sight and sense of smell are different and perhaps too are their thoughts, some of which might be sharper than our own as are some of their senses.
InTheSticks1881 2 years ago
;_;
ThePrimusGuy 2 years ago 2
ive seen many animals greive.
llshamelessll 2 years ago 6
Humans are complex animals. Why should less complex animals not also have emotions, to some extent? It would be more convenient for the human conscience if animals had no pain or emotion, of course.
badger5079 2 years ago 7
translation: OMG MY F*ING HOUSE!! MY HOUSE! YOU ANIMALS!!
glenbruce 2 years ago 6
+ 1 for the sadness but truth
pinochska 2 years ago 2
Some animals have emotions, but not all of them. I bet cows dont have them, except maybe for the pride of being in our plates.
efex2007 2 years ago
My cat disappeared just over two months ago. Of course I searched far and wide for her all this time, but when I saw a fox hanging out in my backyard a few days after her disappearance, I knew what probably happened to her. I was utterly devastated, but more devastated was her sister kitty who searched for her almost constantly for a week, and than sank into a deep depression. For 3 weeks she would not eat, would not want attention. I would hear her crying at night.
OF COURSE animals grieve!
WellIAMScottish 2 years ago 24
@WellIAMScottish Maybe they were both sick, and the one died first.
rooshio1 1 year ago
@WellIAMScottish you are assuming, .. animals cant talk to tell u exactly... but good assumption..
karioka2 5 months ago
Very interesting.
blackiron60 2 years ago
This is so sad. We don't give animals enough credit.
vicket76 2 years ago 6
God, I am sick to death of people like mysterymanolove below who have to put everything on a hierarchy, with his kind conveniently at the top and everything else downgraded in his delusional, egocentric eyes. I don't care if all animals experience the same emotions equally. What the hell does that matter? It is about our behavior as human beings, and we'll reap what we sow. Dismissal of other animals feelings only makes YOU dismissible.
1221solstice2012 2 years ago 7
You are shoving words in my mouth. Does an amoeba feel anything?
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Sad.
aartvegan 2 years ago 2
watch?v=f5OEKA47xFI
ancientkiki 2 years ago
I think this guy hurts his argument dramatically by saying shit like "The world's really crying out to us for help," especially after playing beaver noises. Weak, weak, weak. Who's to say the beaver wasn't really going "HEY! Where are the shit you motherfuckers at!?"
I'm going to watch the full lecture in hopes that it isn't this goofy. The case that some animals mourn their dead is really easy to make, especially with apes and elephants but this guy strikes me as a blunderer.
Bobbiethejean 2 years ago
Its true, we endanger our arguments by anthropormorphizing the beaver's (or any other animal's) sounds without understanding the brain patterns associated to it. Still, the case for animal emotions is so concrete and has been for so long that anyone claiming otherwise is lying or ignorant.
eirefrance 2 years ago 3
Animals have emotions and a goddam brain. I have had a cat for 15 years dont tell me I dont know what the hell im talking about. They are our evolutionary cousins. We are so much like other primates their animal babies look so cute to us and cause in us the "mothers reaction" because primates are relatively near to us in evolutionary terms.
Sad to hear the beaver cry.
juggep80 2 years ago
One more thing and then I am done, Dr. Krause shure as hell knows alot about this beaver familiy. It's like he was stalking the beavers family or something, like he had a camera in the beaver dam. I mean how else would you know the the young have just been born? They can't swim yet or anything and they definantly wouldn't be outside the dam. Anyways, food for thought.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Animals have emotions. Not to the degree that Krause believes - they don't have the neural hardware - but they are not pure automatons, either.
1RadicalOne 2 years ago
I have a good example of this.
Hit a dog enough, and it will leave you alone.
You could take that as a fear of you.
It could also be a survival instinct, but another instinct is to stay where food is. So those counteract which would mean that the dog was genuinely frightened by you.
zacdee316 2 years ago
Its sad when humans think that they are the only ones with feelings. Animals, if not all living things have emotions, if not MORE.
Humans can be arrogant, if we stopped to actually think about other living things, there wouldnt be extinction.
MaiLouIsLegend 2 years ago
I'm sure the comments on here would change if the Doctor on here would have said "this beaver just got back from a party and is in a drunken stupor". Then you would really question why the beaver was moaning. Again I have no doubt that the blowing up of the damn and all that happened but to conclusively say that the beaver was grieving is rediculous. It's very persuasive though with the kind of verbal setup the Dr. uses to make you believe what he is saying.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
its a little arrogant to assume animals dont have similar emotions to people.......
lumpfish99 2 years ago 7
Thats like saying it's arrogant to say ghosts, spirits, or fairys don't exist.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Another thing is I'm not saying they don't experience fear and pain ect. , because they do. But do they grieve? I don't know, thats my point, he doesn't know, the beaver could have been crying out because of a huge gash in it's leg, not because it "missed his family" or whatever. And thats not to say that it can't.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Well put Mystery.... Dr. Krause said that he had never heard a beaver make these sounds before so to attribute them to any particular emotion is premature at best. I have no oppositions to his conclusions but his argument is completely anecdotal and more research should be presented.
Hopefully the research gets conducted so a more reasonable discussion of animals treatment can be had.
Ralajer 2 years ago
I take your point about the way people use verbal set ups to create a conclusion in peoples minds
However at what point in the video does he "conclusively say that the beaver was grieving" ?
Or for that matter that this was a scientific study?
We have become so used to being set up for a conclusion that we are no longer listening to what people are saying and only hear what we want to hear.
carlfinkle 2 years ago 2
As anyone who's observed mother cats or dogs with their offspring can tell you, animals certainly have emotions.
Just try pissing one off.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago 2
So is the beaver geiving because it was hurt or it lost it's familiy? It's unscientific to say that it was definantly "grieving". There is no doubt that the animal was injured and animals feel pain. How do you know that the beaver wasn't just trying to reconnect with the family by crying out to them? Again, too many questions that can't be answerd just because a beaver is wonded.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago 3
According to an NPR story I heard, wild baboons have been observed exhibiting behavior that resembles grieving after losing close relatives to predation.
This would seem to be supported by elevated levels of stress hormones found in their feces that tapered off over time in sync with the lessening of grief-like behavior.
EyeLean5280 2 years ago 4
Well we know that the beaver's family was missing & its dam was demolished so how do you know that he isnt grieving for it. Either way, its a form of emotions trying to connect-
MaiLouIsLegend 2 years ago
What information were you given that I wasn't? What data do you have to suggest that the beaver wasn't just hurt by the blast but was grieving? How do you know that? You don't, and don't act like you do. It could have been calling for it's family but it doesn't conclude "grieving". Everyone knows that animals have emotions, so what if they "feel more", does that make them better than us? No.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Nobody said animals were 'better' than us is any aspect.
& its called PERSPECTIVE, learn to see it from the other side, as I am from yours. How do you assume that calling out for your family cause they are missing is not concluded as not grieving. Obviously that would be a form of grieving.
MaiLouIsLegend 2 years ago
Crying out to make sure where your family is doesn't mean you are sad for their loss, you don't even know if they are gone at that point. The other think he made clear is, the beaver was wounded. You are acting like "well, since you can't disprove it, it's still a possibility", which is the weakest argument you can make.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Obviously for one thing, you cant disprove it either so you dont have much room to talk.
& you would figure that if the beaver was wounded and couldnt find any sign of its family it would grieve. Maybe you wouldnt grieve if you're family was loss but some people and animals do.
MaiLouIsLegend 2 years ago
I'm not saying they don't grieve, but to say that because they get hurt and are looking for the family, they are greiving. You are concluding that the beaver is greiving based on your emotional opinion and I'm here to say you can't conclude that, neither can I. But again, just because you say "you can't rule out spirits because you can't disprove spirits" is not nessisarily an equal or valid arguement as emotions in animals. You are assuming that all animals experience the same emotions equally.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Trust me. They grieve. Just because we humans have higher intelligence doesnt mean we grieve better.
Do you even own animals? Cats, dogs? Have you realized how much they are like us?
juggep80 2 years ago
No "trust me" is not a valid reasonable arguement SHOW ME THE RESEARCH!
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Yeah I know where youre coming from. Its hard to prove it scientifically.
Get a cat. You will find out.
I have a cat who feels happiness, anger, gratitude, frustration, sense of betrayal, smarts
Did our emotions as a human species evolve out of our need for social skills? Did we have these traits before our ape like form?
Probably, emotions give evolutionary advantages. Like love for children.. it makes sense for beavers to have it. I bet beaver is smart enough to realize family=dead
juggep80 2 years ago 5
And dogs are empathic. They respond to our moods and they grieve in our absence. They are true companions.
seamoremonster 2 years ago 14
@seamoremonster but kitty's have the best facial expressions
opti95 1 year ago
Wolves grieve from losing a pack member. In one of the books I have on them, a cougar killed a member, the pack chased the cougar up a tree for hours and after many nights(forgot exact number) the wolves behavior changed, depression, not hunting or playing. And they knew the member was dead since they saw and interacted with the corpse.
Brewhahh 2 years ago 7
People need to read what I write. In this particular instance the beaver was injured, whos to say that the beaver wasn't just in pain. This audio alone doesn't prove anything about beavers greiving. But it's a strech to say "The world's really crying out to us for help" like doctor contends because of on beaver in a river in the middle of nowhere.
MysteryManoLove 2 years ago
Regarding human propensity for violence: it has never ceased to amaze may that so may so called ardent Christian, Jews and Moslems--but especially Christians are so mindful of the evil and sinfulness of man--and yet don't say--gee maybe the acquisition by such a depraved race of I don't know NUCLEAR WEAPONS is really not such a good idea.
RPenta 2 years ago 3
Only people who have not had a pet believe that animals do not have emotions or people who have not emotions themselves.
carlfinkle 2 years ago 2
It also justifies a lot of stuff we do, such as eat animals, wear their skins, keep them in zoos to be gaped at, experiment on them, take their land, etc, etc, etc...
EyeLean5280 2 years ago 2
The main reason is why we kill others animals habitats!!?? We don't respect each other we don't respect others animals not even flora so why we see us as being good in this world. But our time will come and in that time will be late.
filipaopereire 2 years ago
I don't see why other mammals wouldn't grieve their dead. Poor beaver.
The human race has a lot of growing up to do still.
verstwo2 2 years ago 2
Sadly the idea that humanity is the "paragon of animals" is still very much alive. Though we're capable of complex thought, reason, and advanced technology. In the end fear, grief, and anger are primordial emotions.
Smaug84 2 years ago 3
It's also unfortunate that ignorance is the default position.
verstwo2 2 years ago