Added: 3 years ago
From: landtmd
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  • I won't hold my breath until Lani convinces state governments to spend more on schools than prisons, but she makes some good points and reveals some great stats.

  • So profound so true

  • The fact of the matter is, if America is willing to stay true to the founding principles this woman's points are spot on. However, as America continues to prove it's for a few by a few, her rhetoric is just that and a flawed paradigm. I am impressed by her thinking and it is something worth listening to

  • The America we are living in now was a flawed paradigm at one point in time but enough people believed in it...when enough people start understanding and believing the rhetoric she is talking about we'll get to where we need to be

  • i think her points are pretty good because most black people DO end up in prison and thats not right that the Gov't is spending more on PRISONS for NEARLY INNOCENT PEOPLE than they are for education, thats why americans are called DUMMIES by the world .......

    WAKE UP AMERICANS *by americans im NOT talking to WHITE people im talking to any human being born on AMERICAN SOIL..... yellow pink blue black white PURPLE i dont care

  • WORD

  • Indeed...

  • jamlet,

    The only person lacking clarity of the bigger picture is yourself. Believe the illusions around you.

  • this lady seems to not get the picture, it's sad to see someone with so much education lacking clarity of the bigger picture, and i only have a degree in engineering

  • What kind of engineering degree do you have? I think you are lying.

  • Calling someone a liar is a serious accusation. Why on earth of all things to make up about yourself, why would I make that up?

  • I'm not privey to your psycological records so I have no idea why you would lie.

    And, you didn't state what type of engineering degree you have. Still haven't figured it out yet?

    I

  • it's pretty clear that the black agenda is not the american agenda...this has been demonstrated pretty consistently throughout american history.

  • the american community has never been concerned about the black community...maybe when we take care of ourselves, we can better compete in global capitalism

  • "the american community has never been concerned about the black community..."

    Right on, bro! And when whites say "the american community" they are speaking in code, meaning the needs and desires of white people.

    The white devil still thinks he is slick. But in these last days of his rule, he is only fooling himself. Judgement is upon the white beast and don't expect him to televise it.

  • The black agenda IS the American agenda because we ARE Americans-which is what Ms. Guinier pointed out. The reality is that throughout history blacks folks were never included in the American agenda period because white folks made damn sure us and everybody else who wasn't white were shoved to the side and deliberately cut off from having anywhere near as many opportunities as the average white person, who was allowed to hog every opportunity whether they had actually earned it or not.

  • thanks for reinforcing my point

  • That was what Professor Lani Guinier presented in another interview.

  • If we work from the assumption that talent is equally distributed among all groups, we are denying many people an opportunity at present. We are also denying business and industry access to a full talent pool. And we are undermining the potential of a society to solve hard problems creatively

  • The State of the Bkack Union huh/?10 years and look around any of citiy? nothing has changed. Tavis sells book, blacks in the Plutocracy along w/Gov oppress the poor. SOTBU is self serving an illusion at best.Tavis can't even concel his contemptment towards Obama. The black clergy sustains the captivity of this people.Tine to wake up! Determine your own destiny.

  • Say it again!

  • Ms. Guinier said, "talent is equally distributed among all people." That's a very stupid thing to say. Due to individual levels of talent, individual interests, and individual circumstances --- there is not an equal distribution of talent. There is something like a *normal* distribution of talent, but certainly not an *equal* distribution of talent. Ms. Guinier has based her views on an obviously false, very stupid premise.

  • alcyoneuspua;

    Your quote is wrong. She said among all "groups." And, I'm assuming she means some groups, as whole, are better at sports, biology, math, construction, etc. than other groups. And, that's a good thing to be proud of and not be ashamed of. It's no different than women and men being better at certain things because of the difference in physical attributes.

  • brrtown, you can hear the quote at 1:22 in the video. She clearly thinks that all people have equal talent. She argues that we should expect proportional representation of all races and "populations" in all endeavors. Ms. Guinier thinks all differences in talent are socially constructed. You think some of those differences are natural. If you're correct, Guinier is wrong. I agree with you on natural differences. I don't agree with Guinier. Given what you've written, you don't either.

  • Sorry, was referring to quote @ 8:28 (I think she meant same @ 1:22). Its hard to prove her point when we live in a society that wont allow true equality. Some groups may be better at things because they are suppressed from pursuing other avenues. In turn, they perfect what they are allowed to do. Example, are women better secretaries? Probably not, but how many men secretaries do you see?

    Equal is just the wrong word to use here. Balance may be a better word for her point.

  • brrtown, the fact of human diversity directly implies a diversity of outcomes. To use the word 'balance' here, you'd have to know what the balance should be. But that would require knowing all the social/economic arrangements of every person. That's impossible. Hayek called it the Fatal Conceit. Regulators pretend to know thing, but they don't. Women do make better secretaries. For whatever reason, the social/economic balance of the job appeals more to women than men. What's wrong with that?

  • alcyoneuspua, secretarial doesnt appeal more to women no more than nursing. Theyre just stereotyped roles to men bosses. Women arent better, its their place whether good or bad, its enforced. When men apply theyre hugely ignored.

    Balance is that crazy % that gives people a sense of fairness. Balance is a feeling and it changes in every circumstance. Imbalance occurs when theres an abnormal high result of one group when clearly all groups have enough qaulified suitors.

  • You're right: it's not that women are better secretaries, but that secretarial work is better for women. Some groups don't perform as well in school compared to other groups. If one group doesn't value academic achievement as much as another, no worries there. Diverse people will make diverse choices. But choices have consequences. Avoiding academic achievement will affect academic advancement. This fact is elementary in all occupations. It cannot be dismissed by calling it a 'stereotype.'

  • Your argument is valid if we live in a vacuum. A dysfunctional school system affect millions, not thousands. And if the parents are struggling, what then? Valuing education is just not enough. Public school in certain communities are a joke but it's the only option for most. One must have access to external resources which can cost a small fortune. Racism, sexism & classism play an enormous role in progression.

    I at least hope you agree that no group is naturally smarter than another.

  • On the contrary, my argument is right precisely because we don't live in a vacuum. Your argument is right only if human beings are all the same. They aren't. Take your education example. Never in human history has knowledge been so freely available. Never. It's totally unprecedented. Nothing is stopping modern peoples from reading books and becoming educated. Nothing. Ms. Guinier pretends that cultures can be different, yet still outcomes will be the same. This is plainly, obviously false.

  • Im not referring to internet access for knowledge. Im referring to tutors, better teachers, community centers, etc. that costs money. Thats real education. People need to be taught what the public system fails to teach.

    I agree with your last 2 sentences if thats what shes saying but thats not what I got from it. I thought she was trying to state that we can all compliment each other by being different....by being stronger at something the other is weak at....a true team.

  • Again, I take the contrary. By any historical standard, we have unprecedented access to knowledge. It's not just the Internet but libraries, huge numbers of books published and easy access to those books. Real education happens in the individual who wants to be educated, not in community centers or even schools. For anyone who wants to learn, education is less expensive than at anytime in human history. [cont'd]

  • This is untrue.  No need to argue it because you have the internet to see for yourself.

  • See what? That education is freely and easily available for anyone? But that's my point. I don't know what you mean here.

  • Theres no evidence that cultural diversity makes for a stronger team. In fact, most evidence is to the contrary. Japan is probably the most culturally and racially homogeneous country in the world, yet it easily makes the best consumer products for people all across the globe. Cultural diversity most often provokes strife. At the very least cultural unity is as important as cultural diversity. Different doesn't necessarily mean better, it can also mean not as good. This is Ms. Guinier's evasion.

  • It is not my argument that "cultural diversity makes for a stronger team."

    However, if your team is made up of diversity then it will definately weaken your team if you leave some behind. Maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened if there was more diversity at the CIA.

    Japan is a bad example. They've been in recession for nearly 20 years.

  • But Japan sells lots of products to diverse peoples. They have a terrible banking policy, much like ours -- and we're diverse! Culturally diverse societies were no better at predicting 9/11 than culturally homogeneous societies. Moreover, the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack draw their grievances from war and strife created by cultural diversity! Talk about bad examples.

  • Oh, please--anything to put down cultural diversity, even at the cost of stretching the truth. Gimme a break---a lot of wars were started by people who were parts of the same culture living in the same damn countries---look at the Bosnia-Herzagonia

    war back in the early '90's---ALL those people fighting each other were all white--they just came from different backgrounds and religions--but, apparently, their all being white sure as hell didn't guarantee that they would get along. I mean,please.

  • Her premise is not stupid - the distribution of talent within each group is practically identical from one group to another (and by "groups" we all know we're talking about different cultural groups that we often to refer to as "races". Let's be really honest here). It's quite evident from your comments that you would like to justify the lower status of people of color by arguing "it's all their fault for not reading". I'd prefer you just be honest, rather than trying to conceal your position

  • I didn't say her premise is stupid, but that it is false and provably so. Culture has a tremendous impact on the interests and pursuits of people. To ignore this fact is stupid, but the premise itself is simply false. As for what you "prefer," I'd rather you stop trying to read minds across the Internet. Although it's easier to make things up about people and their motives, it betrays a weak argument and a hatred for honest dialog. It appears that you and Ms. Guinier may have those in common.

  • Brilliant mind. Brilliant teacher. Teach!

  • "Oh, I'm real. Real enough to defeat you! And I did it without your precious gifts, your oh-so-special powers. I'll give them heroics. I'll give them the most spectacular heroics the world has ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so that *everyone* can have powers. *Everyone* can be super! And when everyone's super-- [chuckles evilly] --no one will be."

    -- Syndrome, in "The Incredibles"

  • I want to thank Landtmd for this post. I value the information shared during SOTBU 2009. I see progress. I see myself destroying my romantic notions of revolution and rebuilding what it means to be a Black woman in America, much to the credit of such forums and discussions. I believe in critical analysis but I also believe in the imperfection of humanity. Being a human is complicated. I think SOTBU was able to serve its purpose thanks to financial support of its sponsers, I aint madd at Tavis.

  • Tavis wants the Black community to see him as some kind of "revolutionary" who's fighting for "everyday" Black people. Yet this year's State of the Black Union was sponsored by Wells Fargo Bank lol, give me a break.

  • Youre incorrect. Tavis IS a man, a Black man, committed to the uplift of his people and America as a whole. I know MANY Black folks who bank with Wells Fargo, who trust that institution with their money. They must give back to OUR community if we are to continue conducting business with them. Ive never seen Taivs as a revolutionary, he's never called for armed struggle. But he is a intellectual and he has provided a forum for our empowerment. Dont tear the Brotha down, give thanks.

  • You're right, Tavis is very intelligent, but right now he's not using his intelligence or his influence in the Black community in a positive way. He's allowing his own personal issues with Obama to cloud his judgment on how best to serve the community that he claims to love so much. And as long as White-owned corporations are sponsoring our events, we'll never be able to speak freely about the issues that are effecting us.

  • Comment removed

  • MISSED THE 4:30 C-SPAN THANKS

  • Amen...Amen. Thank you, Lani..

  • She brilliant. No wonder Mrs. Clinton didn't like her.

  • Forget IQ... sheer blood and sweat, late sleepless nights and missed parties, letting go of unsupportive pseudo-friends and acquistion of knowledge and critical thinking skills... All with a foundation of bonds of uncommodified, untruncated love enough to carry people who aren't selfish and self-seeking, but willing to serve each other. Remember that, folks.

    God bless.

    - AP

  • As I grew, I had to reaffirm for myself that I had the mind to learn both just at a different pace than others... and its not talent, peeps that matters, but determination and willpower that wins in the end. Oh, almost forgot... group associations working together are also important to individual success, because everyone ideally help each other out.

    - AP

  • I thought I was so stupid when I was young, because of tests... and man, I wasn't even good at sports to compensate for that feeling... so I felt I had no place in either athletics or academia... so where could I find solace?

    - AP

  • Beautiful. She went to the basics... education as being a crucial aspect of why Black men (predominantly and generally) in are in this state. Reframe the calibrations of merit and identify other forms or manifestations of brilliance that need to be recognized as equally pivotal to our communal existence.

    - AP

  • i agree..awesome

  • I watched the afternoon session of the SOTBU, and Tavis was really disappointing. The panel was great, but Tavis just can't let the last two SOTBUs go. Tavis we understand that President Obama didn't kiss your ass like President Clinton did, but you are really making your dislike of him obvious now.

  • I love the smile Lani had before she responded to Tavis's veiled criticism of Obama (i.e., he's an elitist who's only interested in helping Blacks who are on his level). In a very intelligent, articulate manner, she set him straight. The "Black agenda" is the "American agenda", they're not mutually exclusive.

  • She BROKE IT DOWN for you.  Awesome woman!

  • she is beautiful

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