A BBC Experimental Colour Transmission 1957 - Part One

[colin9311]

Wonder if there is anyone who can lip read that might be prepared to create a transcript of the opening words of Sylvia Peters? That would be rather nice don't you think?

[aptsarchive]

@colin9311 A great idea and something that we have thought about! We are also looking for a lip reader to identify what people are saying in footage we have of pre-war programmes, filmed in the studios at Alexandra Palace!

[djfmitv]

Is it possible to use the "colour restoration" technique on this footage? It would be interesting to see what NTSC colour would of looked in those early experimental days...

[aptsarchive]

@djfmitv This has been discussed earlier on in the message thread. Richard Russell, who created the software to "read" the chroma dots "There are many BBC programmes that could potentially benefit from the process. However, there are conditions: first, of course, they have to have been made in colour originally. It's only applicable to PAL [the UK video standard], not to [the American] NTSC". This means that the technology "cannot be used with film recordings from the Americas or Japan".

[bhoyardee]

Cy Grant ?! I haven't heard of him in 50 years! Great to see old footage of him.

[atomicnortherner]

what? tv hasnt always been in colour?

[Orlabobz]

@atomicnortherner

was that sarcasm?

[atomicnortherner]

@Orlabobz just relaying a question I heard a month ago =-)

[Orlabobz]

@atomicnortherner

oh ok! fair enough..... I was wondering if it was sarcasm, because a the question was so silly, someone couldnt possibly think that! ha!

[1L6E6VHF]

Anyone else find it curious that, when demonstrating (what was then) a very futuristic technology, they would set it to a 'big band' musical number nearly two decades old?

[GamersInTheZone]

LMAO The Colour Song!

[colin9311]

Anyone considered the possibliity of Colour recovery from this telerecording? Assuming there is any chroma dots within the it?

[aptsarchive]

As far as I am aware it wouldn't matter that this was fiilmed from an NTSC monitor, provided the chroma dots are included on the film then colour restoration should be the same as with a PAL telerecording.

[aptsarchive]

Have just found this from Richard Russell, who created the computer software to "read" the chroma dots "There are many BBC programmes that could potentially benefit from the process. However, there are conditions: first, of course, they have to have been made in colour originally.  It's only applicable to PAL [the UK video standard], not to [the American] NTSC". This means that the technology "cannot be used with film recordings from the Americas or Japan".

[colin9311]

Hmmm it's all potentially interesting and could, if workable, be a most worthwhile recovery. The fact that this is NTSC would be yet another challenge but recovering something IN COLOUR from the 1950's would be the most amazing thing to date I would suggest. Could you make a suggestion to the BBC to at least review the idea?

[aptsarchive]

Have just put the phone down from a member of the Colour Recovery Group and made this suggestion during our phone call. I shall be arranging a meeting with them in February and this will be one of the items I shall be suggesting for the Colour Recovery Project!

[colin9311]

Excellent and worthwhile following up. Looking forward to hearing what they think.

[onuo]

@aptsarchive Can you tell us if the colour within this could be recovered?

I would have thought they would have recorded this off a colour tube via film for archive at the time rather that to B&W film.

Sort of defeats the purpose regarding the subject of colour broadcasts. However fingers crossed that the chroma dot method could be used to recover lost chroma info!

A great find!

[aptsarchive]

@onuo Please look in the message thread before your posting where the possibility of recovering the colour from chroma dots is discussed in some length!

[IdentTelevision]

Very interesting, I find this channel fascinating ,

Is the green tint of the film just the way it was captured or is it a result of the green part of the RGB spectrum which i believe black and white receivers used to display a monochrome image, being recorded onto a colour medium hence the green tint ?

[aptsarchive]

Glad you enjoy our channel. The green tinit is due our copying from video tape. I'm sorry that during the video processing it didn't get the monochrome filter all our other videos recieve. That was partly due to wanting to get the material on YouTube - I'm sure you understand! Yes, I agree with you, monochrome recievers used to display a green tinge to the picture, but this was down to processing by APTS, not from the original film footage.

[ivorbigunzz]

Reminds me of the BBC Today with HD. Years behind a very little to watch.

[tubeie07]

I'm guessing the TC Burn-in was added during the film transfer to video tape, perhaps in the 80s... It wouldn't have been available in the 50s...

[aptsarchive]

Have sent you a private message regarding this comment.

[wrtlpfmpf]

Actually this must have been in an old experimental standard named "NTSC". It didn't work for terrestrial transmission because of it has serious problems with phase shifts.

The UK decided to use PAL at the Oslo summit in 1966. At this summit the UK, and the Netherlands switched from NTSC to PAL.

[aptsarchive]

It was indeed 405-line standard with an adopted NTSC colour system!

[wrtlpfmpf]

Ah yes, strangely enought my book from 1967 puts it into theese words: "Bei dem Besuch in England wurden von der British Broadcastin Corporation (BBC) in erster Linie NTSC-Bilder nach dem 405-Zeilen-Standard vorgeführt, die eine sehr gute Bildqualität aufwiesen.". What seems a bit strange is the "in erste Linie" (mostly) part of it. What other systems have been shown?

BTW, the netzerlands had a system named TSC, Two-Sub-Carrier.

[wrtlpfmpf]

Are you sure this is from the 1950s? The font of the electronic character generator looks suspiciously like a late 1980s ITT teletext decoder.

Anhow the singer raises an important point. Even one year later at the CCIR summit in Moscow the countries weren't able to agree even on the width of a transmission channel.

Actually in the US there was colour television since 1953, but seemingly nobody had a reciever for it.

[aptsarchive]

It is indeed from the 1950s, but this copy is from a viewing tape with the BBC Film & Video Tape Library coding (which is 1980 electronic characters).

The CCIR delegates actually came to the UK for this demonstration, which was transmitted to the House of Lords, in order to show members of parliment how a "compatible" television signal would look on both colour and monochrome recievers.

[altfactor]

@wrtlpfmpf This was a kinescope recording (filmed off a TV screen) transferred to a videotape with time code.

[SleemC]

Facinating, keep up the good work.

[aptsarchive]

Many thanks - we will!!