Schubert - "Death and the Maiden" Quartet in D Minor (2)

[WandaAdelladx319]

hmz keiner deutsch hihi

[TrevRockOne]

The weird thing is there's a live video of Takacs playing this very movement, and it's at a slower, perfect pace.

[psantosj]

I agree, the tempo is a bit fast in this one, this movement is precisely the dialogue between the Maiden and Death, where she asks not to be taken and Deat that reassures her. I did not dislike it totally but I really prefer the slower tempo that the Emerson Quartet gave it in its recording in the 1960's. (?)

[denislrn]

Schubert himself notes bout: Andante con moto. Nothing more, nothing less. Starts with a choral part. Never ignore the composer's marks, very less a compose like Schubert.

[denislrn]

Any doubt, see the scores.

[treflir]

@AveMrZak

"Souhaiter que quelque événement n'arrive point, c'est s'infliger follement un tourment gratuit, car cela revient à souhaiter quelque chose d'absolument impossible, et n'est pas moins déraisonnable que de souhaiter que le soleil se lève à l'Ouest" Arthur Schopenhauer

[xdiscotique]

2:31 - 2:48 just gets me every time. It's amazing that only 15 seconds or so of music can make such an emotional impact.

[EarthBoundRules]

@xdiscotique I agree, that's my favourite part of the whole quartet.

[Hailstormand]

I have always considered this movement to be the part where the Maiden and Death have a conversation, or maybe Death tempting the Maiden to follow. With this kind of speed, it sears the image in my mind.

Yes, the tempo is fast, yes it is supposed to be andante. But this doesn't mean we cannot try it.

[fromMouq]

D: What am I doing? Every comment I see that says anything remotely negative about this piece that at points takes my breath away, I immediately give thumbs down, and give nothing to the ones who say anything else, as if it should be intuitive how magnificent the music is. This is not like me at all.

When I'm not listening to this.

[sebastianrc]

2:00

[TsarBovov]

I really dislike this tempo. It destroys the music in my opinion. But whoever thinks this is good, enjoy!

[evalovesmusic1]

Wow. I usually never listen to classical music, but this..wow.. this is wonderfull..

[TheIcelandicDictator]

wonderfull music



[manthasagittarius]

I think this is superb at this tempo. I'll ring in as a singer who has heard the song this is based on many times, and while I never sang it, I sang enough Schubert to have a good feel for him. The words behind this were still there in the composer's awareness -- any composer who uses his songs instrumentally (Mahler comes to mind). That means the tempo can't be so drawn out that the underlying verbal phrase becomes a long, meaningless string of disconnected syllabic events. My two cents.

[PhysicalsimForever]

I also prefer this tempo, because it makes the movement more flowing and, yes, it does not seem contrived.

[exxcalibur1973]

I take my pathos in enormous, Lear-esque, almost indigestible chunks, dripping with deliberate and tortured anguish; each note a sharp laceration. This is interesting but i like to pick at my wounds as they weep across the floor. Cheers. Definitely worth a listen.

[santiagodinard]

re loco

[1gombro]

My favourite movement of the whole "Death and the maiden"

[SeadogDriftwood]

I love the quickness - it adds an extremely fitting urgency.

[helio231]

I played this with a quartet and we decided upon about 80 to be the tempo but I think this tempo works better.

[SCANDURA01]

this went straight up to my nervous system

awesome played

[lilalumpie]

this song is unbelievable....♥

[ChrisMSomething]

Having played and performed this work, I have to say, I was a little skeptical of the tempo at first, but I think it actually works fairly well. I would still like to see it pulled back by a few clicks in the first 1/4-1/3 of the movement, but I love the tension that a quicker tempo creates in the 1st violin part later on.

[llbirdll]

tempo is just right

(gorgeous playing)

[dwayne515]

by these comments and the English used in them, i can easily say alot of really smart people are listening to this video. lol

[bag3lmonst3r]

Give some credit to the artwork, people! Caspar David Friedrich, German Romantic painter (though I'll be durned if I can remember the name of the painting). ;)

[demonella]

@bag3lmonst3r I am IN LOVE with that artist, I swear. Saw two of his works in the Louvre and nearly had an attack of Stendhal Syndrome.

[MagicDolphinGO]

@bag3lmonst3r abbey in the oak wood

[hward2627]

This is great! I first heard this quartet on a radio program called Keys to Music, I think this is the recording that was used. What a fascinating piece of music to listen to, theme and variations taken to the extreme in a wonderful way!! Major kudos!

[OtherRoadProductions]

I think it's nice to bring the tempo way down for this movement in contrast to the rest of the work. I don't mind this, but it's just a little bit too fast for my ideal. The Borromeo String Quartet have a good recording on the wikipedia page for the quartet

[ungc0]

if u are from carlo give this a thumbs up :)

[mosadi85]

i think it's way too fast, but played very good technically and the sound is clear. And i was listening to this with pleasure, but as i said - too fast for me.

Adrian

[youmakemydreams]

This actually is the tempo its supposed to be, ive played this and this was how fast we were instructed to go.

[aaronbassplyr]

I prefer a lower tempo. This sounds more like death and the butter fly than death and the maiden.

[DarkMorguet]

I agree with skal59!!!! its just sooo fast!!!

[dummyyus]

I just love this movement

[Skal59]

Too fast ! Where is your heart ?

[HARMONICO101]

I prefer my classical/romantic transitional composers played like just that, rather than like late romantic wagnerian melodrama which seems to think that emotion comes from playing a piece extremely slow. I simply find that contrived.

At this tempo, it actually sounds like a "dance macabre" with the busy variations not sounding restrained like a hundred other performances and I find it incredibly evocative and emotional, not to mention I have yet to hear a performance as nuanced as this.

[pmfzero]

@HARMONICO101 - I agree. I've never heard it played in this tempo, and it does lend a more powerful emotional feel to the piece, although this is the only part I've heard so far.

[pablokilla]

@HARMONICO101

i totally agree with you!

[micheldvorsky]

@HARMONICO101 Agree totally. Great performance of this masterpiece, btw. Thanks for the upload.

[Deesade86]

@HARMONICO101 Completely agree!

[zigifrojd]

@Skal59 Its not the point to play slower or faster, its very important to play in tempo right for the notes on parer so musical piece can sound good for that exact notes, if you play slower or faster some composition you may ruin quality depends on composition (notes).

[Skal59]

@zigifrojd You just pointed out the problem: playing it too fast ruin the piece!

[mtnscu]

@Skal59 This is the opinion of one of your peers, dudes. Respecting the opinions of your peers is an exercise in democratic practices. Next time you thumb a comment down, think about that. Even if the comment seems (notice: I have used the verb "seem"!) outrageous (to YOU).

And the piece could sound fast. It is a matter of training and preference. Something else, too, indeed.

[Skal59]

@mtnscu I just can't see the interest of your comment.

[mtnscu]

@Skal59 It is not intended for you (it is directed at those who gave one particular comment of yours a gazillion negative votes), so you should not bother.

[souljaboy50505]

a little faster that walking tempo but does seem to work with this piece, is amazing cant wait to see wht our quartet can make of it

[mannerpanner]

I can't believe the flames that fly on the topic of renditions! A somber style seems to be more in character with Schubert's other chamber works in the slow movement. Music is and always will be an interpretive art, which suggests that performances can differ; how much though is up for debate. Rodrigo has heard many renditions of his famous guitar concerto and has reportedly liked many variations on the perf. I think many composers were open to differing takes; Schubert may have liked this ver.

[HARMONICO101]

And this isn't somber?

[OtherRoadProductions]

@mannerpanner I totally agree. Think how boring music would be if it never changed

[dkfjsal]

Would this movement be considered to be based on a theme and variations?

[HARMONICO101]

Yup.

[Ysengrin00]

it is.

[KBI011]

@dkfjsal

Its a group form or free form.

[schopenhauereanpoet]

This is absolutely stunning. I love the fluidity of this rendition. Thank you for sharing these recordings!

[amunneheh]

"Of course it does not. I will betray the composer if I feel like it for my own enjoyment. I do not care for the "true" way. I will applaud the untrue way if that is what moves me. Should I applaud a recording that is true to the composer (what ever that might mean) but leaves me unaffected, while shunning a recording that actually affects me? Does that not seem wierd? "

hahhaa.

sillyness,

mindblowing piece

[Gjerstad]

This recording is much too fast for my taste. It kills the somber mood else present like in no other composition I know...

[HARMONICO101]

In this recording, this movement actually ebbs and flows like water. It is more akin to a slow dance, which is exactly the kind of feel a piece from the Viennese school of classicism should sound.

I find many others are so slow that they feel stale and dank like a tomb.

[Gjerstad]

I do not think that geography, periods or schools dictate any certain way for something to be played. The feeling of being absorbed by the music is the only criterion of succes, and in this, this recording fails in my case.

[HARMONICO101]

Of course it does. Then you betray everything the composer laid down when he/she wrote it. You will never be able to truly capture what the composer wanted to say through the language of his/her music unless you acknowledge the relevance of the history, style, and composition of the music. How can one truly understand what is being said when one doesn't understand the language?

Of course, good interpretation does go beyond this. It is only one element of great performance.

[Gjerstad]

Of course it does not. I will betray the composer if I feel like it for my own enjoyment. I do not care for the "true" way. I will applaud the untrue way if that is what moves me. Should I applaud a recording that is true to the composer (what ever that might mean) but leaves me unaffected, while shunning a recording that actually affects me? Does that not seem wierd?

[HARMONICO101]

Sure, you may like it, but it's not the work of the composer anymore. It's the same as liking the remake of a film better than the original, or the cover a song more than the original recording.

BTW, I rarely condemn recordings for their tempi because I find that it is purely a matter of adjusting. I thought this was a little fast compared to the version I had before, but as I listened to this, I became more and more convinced of it's correctness and beauty.

[Gjerstad]

"Sure, you may like it, but it's not the work of the composer anymore."

Exactly. And that is fine by me.

[Gjerstad]

Let me try something here for the sake of argument. I estimate this recording to be hovering around 105bpm. I think that is pretty quick for something that should be andante even if it is con moto. Now I could take the hypothetical standpoint that my preferred slower recordings are in better touch with Schuberts intentions. Does that diminish your enjoyment of these recordings the slightest? >>>

[HARMONICO101]

Depends on how slow they are. This tempo is by no means an absolute, as Schubert did not have a metronome to record exactly what he wanted. Rather, what I judge to be a good tempo for this movement is whether or not the dance-like quality is present.

As for your hypothetical standpoint, I would need convincing. By repeated listenings to this, as well as learning more about Schubert's time, I became convinced, and therefore came to understand and appreciate this interpretation more.

[HARMONICO101]

That is NOT fine by me. :)

[Gjerstad]

Does that diminish your enjoyment of these recordings the slightest? Is it not rather you who should support a reckless disregard for the composer and applaud the audacity of a novel interpretation that explores new dimensions which others, or perhaps even the composer himself, did not know the composition had?

[HARMONICO101]

I never applaud recklessness.

If the work truly is a masterpiece, then there is no need for total disregard of the composer's intentions in order to explore new dimensions. That can be done by staying true to the composer.

I find it fascinating how rebellion is considered so virtuous in today's society. :)

[Gjerstad]

To the best of my knowledge 105bpm is on the breaking point of what one could call andante. Furthermore, given the theme of this piece, should the feel of the performance not rather be your disliked feel of a tomb, in order for the performance to be "true" to the composer, instead of your described "watery" feel.

[Gjerstad]

I am the bearer of my musical experiences, and the value of these rest solely upon myself. I do not need any postulated meta "truth" for them to rest on, in order to be validated in [i]my[/i] enjoyment. The whole thought of my experience of beauty as in need of being grounded in any way, seems deeply perverse to me; no matter the thing being expunded as the postulated ultimate foundation which the experience should rest upon, correspond to, depict etc. in order for it to be "correct".

[HARMONICO101]

That's because I love the history and origins of the music as much as the music itself, whereas you do not care in the slightest.

[Gjerstad]

My listenening experience is not ad hominem, nor ad historiam. The music that moves me transcends, in that very fact that it moves me, history and geography, and is as such timeless. There is therefore in my enjoyment, in my being absorbed in the music, a certain abolishment of time, space, persons, truth... basically everything.

[HARMONICO101]

And mine does not? Because I like a faster tempo then what you are used to? That is not what I mean.

Whatever, I'm not getting anywhere with this, forget I even replied. :)

[HARMONICO101]

"To the best of my knowledge 105bpm is on the breaking point of what one could call andante"

+ con moto

This piece's orginal music came from Schubert's lied of the same name. The lyrics mention the soft embrace of death. A stale tempo rids this piece of the lyrical phrasing and "watery" feel that I think do the original lyrics proper justice, as well as giving the slightly more sprightly movements adequate phrasing and energy.

[Smartguy1992]

One can not simply force themselves to like something because it was the composer's original intent. To suggest that everyone should or even could enjoy a piece as what the composer originally intended is ridiculous, and clearly is not be true in practice. Rebellion is considered virtuous when it results in the furthering of a noble cause, and in this case, I think it's safe to say he's doing it for personal preference, and not for its own sake.

[HARMONICO101]

I never said any of that was untrue, but complete abandonment of the composers intentions is a wonderful way of throwing some more dirt on his/her grave, till we no longer even remember what he/she wanted in the music.

"Rebellion is considered virtuous when it results in the furthering of a noble cause"

A noble cause... how rare that is. How very very rare.

[Smartguy1992]

Well, if you consider that to be "throwing dirt on their grave", that's a sad state of affairs for everything. To say that something should not be improved on or even experimented with in accord with the original intent of the inventor is an affront to many fields of study, many hobbies and more. Unless, of course, you believe it should only apply to music, if you'd like to argue that.

What do you consider a "noble cause" to be?

[HARMONICO101]

"complete abandonment of the composers intentions" is different from a little experimentation. I'm not an extremist. :)

No offense, but I'm not interested in discussing this anymore.

[Smartguy1992]

Okay, if that's what you'd like. But I think that not calling yourself an extremist when simply changing the tempo a bit is "complete abandonment of the composer's intentions" as opposed to "a little experimentation" might be a bit inaccurate.

[HARMONICO101]

I never said that the slower tempo was completely wrong. I was simply saying that this tempo, to me anyways, is closer to the composer's intention, because there is a historical reasoning behind it.

[laenistar69]

or like changing a Mozart concerto to a minor key because you think it sounds better that way ~ I know from experience (my teacher wasn't happy with my "rendition")

[muellerbones]

Anyone read Ariel Dorfman's "La Muerte y la Doncella?" It's originally in Spanish but there are lots of translations if anyone can't understand. A really shitty film adaptation was made for it in the U.S. that changed the whole ending.

[vonspre]

Yes,I did....but,in my opinion , the movie is not "shitty " at all.

Polansky is a genius and that movie is extremely beautiful.

[vonspre]

Sorry.PolanskI.

[LaBoheme1988]

I absolutely love this piece. It is so peaceful, and the title leads my fantasy off to unknown places.

Like a dance between death and life

[Orangananas]

Magnifique, magnifique magnifique !

[vonspre]

Thank you Schubert.I love you.