and with the right amount of collection. And, as every horse, a good ridden and strong horse shows good gaits which includes a high leg action! And not to be forgotten, all of our AMAZING horses that is the result of a greit breeding process and has these fantastic 4/5 gaits natural with all natural movements, strength and speed! Of course there always is some rotten apples in every sport, but there is no need of being paranoid and sceptic to all of us...
There is no "collection" in tolt. What happens in tolt is diametrically opposed to the components of collection! See the article iceryder. net/ collectiongait.html If the horses were naturally gaited, there would be no need for nosebands, heavy contact, weights (in shoes and boots).
The "natural" horse as you put it, isn't even tölting, its doing a walk. The tölt is a four beat lateral gait in which the horse is having one or two foots in the ground. Its never a -three foots in the ground- phase. The horse in the picture is also putting a lot of weight on its fore legs, and not on its hind legs and muscles as it should.. Therefore it stretches its neck and is in lack of balance and right beat. As in every gait, the tölt should be ridden in a sustainable way
I have ridden on several occasions horses that have high stepping tölt and do it on free rein without any boots or weights. And these horses have not been even trained with them. There are vary many videos on Youtube that can demonstrate my point. There is even one of a man riding without any bridle and saddle. And the horse has high steps. Please continue your study.
Can you point us to those videos? How do you know that the horses have not been trained with weights or boots? or concussive practices? or the tight saddles or heavy rein contact?
Last question: "Could we make this horse look like the one in the picture?"... NO, you couldn't.. Yours is not a competitionhorse, and probably cheap. The one in the picture is probably worth at least 100 000 dollars!! So don't go claiming the mechanical aids is all that seperates your (or whoever owns it) horse to the other horse.
It is FINE that you choose to have litt paddle-hobby horses, I have one myself. Only difference is that I DON'T claim that mine would tölt like that if I used aids.
Did you saw this horses in feedom? Probably not because you will know that tolt it is their natural walk. Come to Iceland and go outside the town and watch, watch and watch... maybe you will understand. Next try to ride in your style...
Are there any videos of icelandic horses tolting at liberty?? If so, please let us know where they are.
Do you have any videos of the natural gait of icelandic horses on your page?
I have experience with many breeds of gaited horses and I love my Icelandic Horses, but I will say that the Icelandics are the least gaited of gaited horse breeds.
Rarely are Icelandics seen gaiting at liberty. Lots of trot videos!
@icehorses er, what? I've got a nearly 4 year old, untrained mare at home here, who tends to tolt more than trot. My other mare, nearly 7 years old, also easily tolts without me sitting on her and guiding her into it. It's their natural gait, thus they use it more than trot. In fact, the 7 year old prefers tolt over trot when I ride her. And dont think i use the methods you described up here, simply because i know they would hurt her, and i love her too much for that.
@xxAlchemistressxx I'm glad to hear that you love your horse and would not use these methods! Can you post some videos of your horses tolting at liberty? or under saddle? Thanks!
I'm glad to hear that you love your horse and that you would not use these methods! Can you post videos of your horse(s) tolting at liberty and under saddle? Thanks!
@icehorses I've got one online at the moment of her doing something i think is flying pace (i'm very much a beginner considering tolt and especially flying pace) but that was sort of accidental - no influence of mine in there haha! You can check that one out if you'd like (it is unclear, as it was filmed with my phone) and i'll let you know if i can get one of me tolting with her as well ;)
@xxAlchemistressxx Thanks. Yes, it's difficult to see the individual legs, but she does go very lateral at some points; some stepping pace. How's her trot?
Learn more about the icelandic horse and try to ride one and then you can try to tell something..!
And like one glever man said:
" Never but down another breed until you have trained, worked with and completely understand that breed" This was said to Matt Sheridan from his grandpa!
Horses are not made to be sat on.But we do.THEREFORE we have to help the horse work in a way that makes it carry both itself AND the rider.THAT we do by collection and balance.You mention balanced rider, but never balanced horse.The boots(190 grams)are only in contact with the hoof,compare with your Tennessee Walkers!A whip barely touches,to guide.If it hits it's used wrong way.All I see on your "natural" pic is a horse that carry you on its sceleton and front,not with it's hind and muscles.
Hi Anette! Thanks for writing! Personally I have never seen an Icelandic Horse that is collected or in balance. Excusing 190 gr boots because another breeds wear heavier weights, is not right. The horse should be able to gait without mechanical aids. If this is such a natural horse, let's get rid of the mechanical aids! Also have never seen an Icelandic using his hind muscles to carry. You are a wonderful photographer and your photos prove my points.
Its not unnatural just because its another riding style than you practice. And its not just a small T. Walking horse trained a bit different. I agree that the competitions have its flaws. But if your a good rider you can make the horse run like this with NO force. Let me just find some links for you..
Icelandic "horses" my ass - they're just coarse ponies. And why an adult needs to ride a pony??? Don't have enough balls to ride a real horse, maybe..
Icelandic horses are called horses cause the icelandic people don't have a word for pony. And they are very proud of their horse. To say they "don't have balls" to ride a "real horse" makes absolutely no sense. Firstly, they have no choice, as icelandic horses is the ONLY breed in the country. Secondly, it's no less dangerous to ride an icelandic horse, or a PONY if you wish, than other breeds. You could say that other riders don't have balls / talent to handle two extra gaits ;)!
I dont have the ame impression of icelandichorse-trainers as you do. New saddles is pretty short, and the riders I met is training the horse after dressage-principles. They focus on being relaxed in the body, and try to avoid that the horse get tensed. I tried a horse trained by a icelandichorse-trainer, and I she was extremely soft in her mouth, and very sensitive to my movements. More soft and sensitive than any other horse I have tried.
my mare goes tölt naturally. with rather high knee action. and look at some horses on YT like Bjarki frá Aldenghoor. he goes tölt smoothly with high action, too. why must everything be cruel and artificial just because you dont appreciate icelandics or whatever youre hoping to accomplish by this video. some horses have high knee actions. naturally. so i dont understad why you have to make such a big deal of it.
to compare a horse gaiting really slowly with one gaiting really fast, like here, doesn't really show anything. If the first horse got excited and/or tölted faster, it would look completely different. I don't agree to all the crap people use, but you're way over the top.
Yes - that extra "flair" is much the same as in the show arena...
Have you NEVER seen a horse do a big round, extended dressage-type trot in the field/at liberty? Have you NEVER seen horses strutting their stuff and showing off in the pasture with animation and action? High knees, high hocks, round, forward? Have you NEVER seen horses free-jumping with that incredible tuck and hooves to their elbows - NOT induced by poling or anything else stupid?? I am sure you have...
The Icelandic in question here can be seen doing an amazing flying pace down the fence with high knees in front - and he is not being forced to do so. He has not even been ridden in a few years now... and yet - amazing! - he has that action that some maintained only comes about through "abuse"...
You know, things are not always black and white. Saying they are does not make it so. And they do not always fit the parameters and/or follow the "rules" that one has set in place...
The "truth" is almost always found in the many shades of grey to be found between either extreme...
I have no video capabilities. I have seen other Icelandics do it as well as other gaited breeds. It just shows that your claims that all high action is forced or artficial are not true... . Gaited horses do not all gait the same way with the same kind of action... some are low and/or barely gait at all - and some have that extra flair. Just as with W/T/C horses - some are high, floating movers, some are not.
Some of what you say is rubbish. The high knee lift can and does happen NATURALLY in many horses - and yet you have always insisted that it does not... for years and years now.
Perhaps you better explain that to my Icelandic who tolts with that kind of high action in the pasture at liberty... no one is mechanically forcing him to anything artificial.
But of course that does not fit in with your long-established theories....
Exactly. Some Icelandic Horses naturally do a running walk, but they are not "allowed" to do their natural gait by the icelandic-style trainers and riders. They are forced to tolt instead.
HAHAHA ur funny the way u think u no every little detail about the icelandic pony... i ride an icelandic and she goes into the tolt naturally and it looks much like the picture of the "manipulated" horse... has it ever occured to you that it just DOES it?? i also ride a tenisee walker and it automatically holds its head up very high... does it occur to you that it just might be a natural ability that that horse possesses?? gawd ppl these days
i ride saddleseat on saddlebreds and they r bred to do wat u think is bad. they r supposed o look like that. i dont no wat is natural to icelandic horses so i cant rly say that ur an idiot or not. if someone posted a video saying saddlebreds r supposed to put their heads down and not pick u their feet that wud def b an idiot.
I also ride saddlebreds saddleseat. and people all the time say how unnatural it is. but yet you can find pics of very young foals with their heads held high and their knees coming up level and even racking! some things come naturally to certian breeds of horses.
ok i got soemthing to say. i got a icelandic horse and she prefere to Tölt then anything els. and no i do not force her to do it. By some horses its naturly and they can actully get the lift high up. And there are actully rules for how long whipe can be, where your saddel is on the horse (and HOW you sit on it), how big/small the bide is for the horse and etc. And if teh judges think you are pushing the horse too much you get disqualifred. and read about the icy before commetn thx
of cors every single person in the world who ride their horses/ponies in an artificial sort of way should soo watch this vid people who ride their horse atrificial should learn to do it naturally that is just soo wrong to do such a thing to a poor horse/pony! :( u r such a great person whoeva made the vid!
This video is kind of ridiculous. I agree with MOST (but not all) of what jmdnarri and chachahorse have said so I will not repeat previous posts. I also think it is silly to compare some person *walking*, not gaiting their horses in a halter in their backyard and a person that is at a show. You also need to get your facts about gait correctly. Icelandics are bred to Tolt (same as Rack), not runwalk. BTW, treeless saddle aren't that good for horses since there is no tree to distribute the weight.
And you have studied horse gaits and biomechanics for how long? Icelandic Horses are not bred to tolt specifically, many of them have fox trot and running walk as natural gaits and those horses should NOT be forced to rack with bits, shoes, weights, saddles, whips, heavy contact, riders sitting on the loins, etc.
This is an overly ELEMENTARY video of natural vs. artifical. Videos like this one would have uneducated horse people believe that the purpose of a whip, bit, spurs, or noseband is to torture the horse into doing a gait it shouldn't be able to do. All these items CAN BE (and should be) used correctly by a skilled and educated rider to ENHANCE what the horse does naturally. Only when used incorrectly does it cause the horse discomfort.
However, you can't deny that metal in the mouth is unnatural for the horse. Would you like having metal in your mouth?Bitless bridles work much better and the horse feels way more comfortable.
I love all these people who claim to know what's best for the horse. It's not natural to sit on a horses back, either. Riding is an art, and art means ARTIFICIAL!
That is not walk, it is running walk, which some Icelandic Horses do naturally without having to pull them into an unnatural frame and use metal in their mouths to cause them to gait from pain.
very good point, Forkastanlegt. Icehorses: as I said before- I have seen icelandic horse doing tölt it´s head up reins totally lose. I doubt that horse gaited from pain..?
When an Icelandic Horse tolts *naturally* (not the ones who are forced into that frame and taught to take that frame no matter what), he may take that frame of his own accord; he won't need to be held with heavy contact, tight noseband, severe bit.
great to see we agree on this small but yet important detail :) no matter what is done with the horse, FORCING looks always ugly. The pictures I saw- in them it was a very fast looking tölt, and the frontfeet rose very high-yet the horse was holding it´s head up with totally lose reins, ears UP :) now that looks pretty *nods*
Icelandic Horses aren't bred to tolt. . Some do it naturally; some do not. They are bred, and then the ones who do not naturally tolt, are forced to tolt.
If this was not true, would we see all the mechanical aids in the shows? in normal riding?
No, I think if the horses tolted naturally, they would tolt bareback, bitless, barefoot, and any other way without the external forces.
they era bred to tolt u should look at the breeding scheme for the desirable characteristics the breeding scheme puts 15% importance on the tolt characteristic which is the hieghest out of everything they look for...get ur facts right...and there are lot worse things in the horse world happening than using different tack...maybe cutting horses tendons to get them having a high knee action is worse?
im on your side, your video is extreamely well made and people have thrown nasty comment your way but it goes right back to them the next time they get chucked off there horse!!
people need to wake up and realise that whips/spurs are not neccessary.
maybe when you reed some books about horses.... spend some time with horses, Then maybe, just maybe you´ll have ANY idea of what you´re talking about!!!!
Seems like some of the icelandic-style trainers are following me and changing things for the better of the horse.
Remember to read the links in the sidebar, about the Cavallo article, and what Gerd Heuschmann says.
"The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
This video displays one thing and one thing only... and that is just how little you know about the Icelandic horse and it's abilities. The pictures you use are poor examples, the natural gait is nothing more than piggy pace, which we Icelander don't want to see in our horses.. and the artificial and forsed horse is clearly showing tölt and is clearly what we call hestefni. The bit is a bit too long YES, but many horses do lift their front legs NATURALLY, with out boots.
If the horse does this gait naturally, why would you want to force tolt on him?
Why not breed for good gait and not force those horses who don't naturally tolt, to do it.
Every single show and competition of Icelandic Horses should show the horse's NATURAL gait. If tolt is desired, it should be without equipment, just natural. If the horse doesn't do it, don't breed that horse.
Did you read the websites listed in the video description.
Yes I did read the websites and you blogs and some other pages too. I would like to know who those people are that are making all these statements. What goes for dressure horses does not fit the icelandic horse, it is a very different horse breed, with 5 gaits: walk, trot, gallop, tölt and pace. Running walk and fox trot are not there among. Tölt is a natural gait, we are NOT forcing it on to the horse. You should spend more time in my country, studying our horse. I will go out make a video!
well said, astamarus! It´s idiotic how it seems some people claim the tölt-ride cruelty because they compare it to dressage! Icelandic horse is NOT fit for any dressage-performance, so how can you judge riding one from dressage or some classical riding-base??
The Icelanders who come here say that the horse can be ridden by a 300 lb man all day on rough terrain (not that it is believable), so fatness shouldn't be a concern for you to point to. Why take the focus away from the subject of the matter: the bad riding practices. Did you read the links under the description? Evidently the bad riding is noticeable by many others.
Showing that even prof-riders or riders who winn many contests do ride rough sometimes: OK!
But showing a very fat rider on a horse who is not in condition and going in a stiff piggypace as example of how the icelandic should be ridden: NO WAY!
Please get yourself better informed about what good riding actually is...
Ok so now you're saying that cause im a teenager I dont know what im talking about, I've bin training and braking horses all my life, and guess what, they are icelandic horses and wow .. I'm Icelandic. Gosh can you believe that. These pictures are taking at a split secon, get a hold of yourself! This is something you can see in every other sport tht includes animals, think about it, they are alive and when they don like something they act up, and then its our job to find a new way to work it!
Why do the teenagers make comments like this and have nothing significant to add to the discussion? C'mon, if I knew nothing about it, would the experts and I have come to the same conclusion? Bleller, have you read what the experts have to say about this? It's there to see in black and white, in pictures, in video, in real time. It's obvious to anyone with any knowledge of horses. Someone within the breed needs to make a change for the better welfare of the breed. Will you do something?
PERHAPS the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason. ~~Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776.
Seriously, what you're saying is, that the good compeeting horses all suffers from pain cause of
the way they ride them ?
That's totally bizare, my stalion does naturally lift his legs up in the air without any weight. I use a whip, a saddle like that one in the movie and all the other stuff, and as far as I know, my horse is really happy. He enjoys getting trained for the future competitions. As long as I can see, you're just pulling compeeting riders and horses down, and gloryfie horsemanship
Horses don't perform well when they are in pain. They become agressive or just won't do anything. Anyways, I really doubt that the horse was in pain, pain. Yes, the rein contact could have been lighter.
But over all of this... What can you do about it? *sigh* and shake your head. There isn't a lot we can do about it.
If you actually look at this, that kind of way.. Then most likely all of the horses, all the breeds, all the gaits, all the competitions is manipulated. You do have a point, but just because the Tölt looks good it doesn't have to mean that the horse is uncomfortable.
"because the Tölt looks good it doesn't have to mean that the horse is uncomfortable"
Yes, you're right. But it is also easy to see a horse's discomfort. Sometimes, though, it becomes part of the "normal" picture and no one notices it for it's true meaning.
For instance, the horses tossing their heads, fighting the bit... do the riders ever get red cards for this poor riding style? If not, why not? Is it even noticed?
I don't agree with you at all. It sure is people who does theese things to their horses but not everyone. It isn't all about looking as good as possible, the judges also look at those little things and how the rider does on the horse's back.
Whether the video's information is incorrect or not, I still don't believe in artificially changing a horse's gait. No good can come of it unless the artificial gait. Animals (people included) stand and walk the way they do because of their bone structure. I for instance have a skeletal structure closer to my father than my mother, despite being a girl. I've never met my father until I was in my 20s, yet I've always stood, the same way he does. My hips cause me to walk and run differently though
I agree with the fact that tölt is often ridden with a too heavy rein contact. I myself do Icelandic riding and know that it's definitely not necessary. Tölt can be ridden with very light aids if both the rider and the horse are properly and patiently trained.
You've probably heard this before; you have no clue what you're talking about. Where do you get your information anyway? You need to do some more research and get some more reliable information instead of just making up stuff up.
I do not agree in this video, the rider may pull the rein to hard, but not everyone who rides in competitions do that. Just take a look at this video: icelandic horses hall of fame then you will see. And the horse you said was ridden "natural" could never go as god as the other horse.
I know nothing about Icelandic horses, I ride Tenn. Walkers and other gaited breeds and I agree with thie video, even though it is a heavy rein and seated way back on the the saddle in that manner it's not consider by most to be mistreatment, But I think it is! It's not natural at all but thats the way they are shown. Same with Tenn. walkers only they use a built up shoe too and train in chains, I don't believe in this method but they do it.
hmmm, if it is such a lie, then why do you see in each and every competition video all over the net such heavy rein contact.you seem to be far more concerned about disqualification in the show ring than with the pain and mistreatment inflicted on these horses. what is it you have against treating horses in a manner that doesnt cause pain, whats so wrong with that? why on earth would you be opposed to that?? Maybe losing out on that winner ribbon??
hmm, if it is such a lie, then why are there photos and videos all over the net showing heavy rein use in competition... you seem to be more concerned with disqualification in the show ring than withhorses not being mistreated. why is it so offensive to you that a horse should be ridden without pain? a horse ridden with so much contact is being abused.
This is a lie.. Firstly, Heavy rein use in icelandic horse contest will get you disqualified.
Secondly, pulling reins hard will make the horse bend its neck, not pull it up. The reason the head is up is because it's natural when they're doing the tølt. Especially the ones that lift their legs high.. Only very strong horses can bend their neck down while doing the tølt, all experts say so. You should never try and get the head down in tølt if the horse doesn't have a very strong front.
"Heavy rein use in icelandic horse contest will get you disqualified."
I think we have a disconcert as to what "heavy" means!
My gosh, the reins are straight and tight.
What is light? when the rein is loose and the horse still knows, understands, and is trained to respond lightly, softly, and correctly; without pulling on his mouth, head, and neck.
Dont't get me wrong, I see your point. I just wanted to share with you that there ARE some rules. And icelandic horses also compete in something called T2, which is amazing. It's tolt on loose reins =)..
artifical by far
lemonbery 1 year ago
and with the right amount of collection. And, as every horse, a good ridden and strong horse shows good gaits which includes a high leg action! And not to be forgotten, all of our AMAZING horses that is the result of a greit breeding process and has these fantastic 4/5 gaits natural with all natural movements, strength and speed! Of course there always is some rotten apples in every sport, but there is no need of being paranoid and sceptic to all of us...
mazarein 1 year ago
There is no "collection" in tolt. What happens in tolt is diametrically opposed to the components of collection! See the article iceryder. net/ collectiongait.html If the horses were naturally gaited, there would be no need for nosebands, heavy contact, weights (in shoes and boots).
icehorses 1 year ago
The "natural" horse as you put it, isn't even tölting, its doing a walk. The tölt is a four beat lateral gait in which the horse is having one or two foots in the ground. Its never a -three foots in the ground- phase. The horse in the picture is also putting a lot of weight on its fore legs, and not on its hind legs and muscles as it should.. Therefore it stretches its neck and is in lack of balance and right beat. As in every gait, the tölt should be ridden in a sustainable way
mazarein 1 year ago
Hi icehorses,
I have ridden on several occasions horses that have high stepping tölt and do it on free rein without any boots or weights. And these horses have not been even trained with them. There are vary many videos on Youtube that can demonstrate my point. There is even one of a man riding without any bridle and saddle. And the horse has high steps. Please continue your study.
hkarinen2 1 year ago
Can you point us to those videos? How do you know that the horses have not been trained with weights or boots? or concussive practices? or the tight saddles or heavy rein contact?
icehorses 1 year ago
Last question: "Could we make this horse look like the one in the picture?"... NO, you couldn't.. Yours is not a competitionhorse, and probably cheap. The one in the picture is probably worth at least 100 000 dollars!! So don't go claiming the mechanical aids is all that seperates your (or whoever owns it) horse to the other horse.
It is FINE that you choose to have litt paddle-hobby horses, I have one myself. Only difference is that I DON'T claim that mine would tölt like that if I used aids.
Synna89 1 year ago
Did you saw this horses in feedom? Probably not because you will know that tolt it is their natural walk. Come to Iceland and go outside the town and watch, watch and watch... maybe you will understand. Next try to ride in your style...
aganarczu 2 years ago
Are there any videos of icelandic horses tolting at liberty?? If so, please let us know where they are.
Do you have any videos of the natural gait of icelandic horses on your page?
I have experience with many breeds of gaited horses and I love my Icelandic Horses, but I will say that the Icelandics are the least gaited of gaited horse breeds.
Rarely are Icelandics seen gaiting at liberty. Lots of trot videos!
icehorses 2 years ago
@icehorses er, what? I've got a nearly 4 year old, untrained mare at home here, who tends to tolt more than trot. My other mare, nearly 7 years old, also easily tolts without me sitting on her and guiding her into it. It's their natural gait, thus they use it more than trot. In fact, the 7 year old prefers tolt over trot when I ride her. And dont think i use the methods you described up here, simply because i know they would hurt her, and i love her too much for that.
xxAlchemistressxx 1 year ago
@xxAlchemistressxx I'm glad to hear that you love your horse and would not use these methods! Can you post some videos of your horses tolting at liberty? or under saddle? Thanks!
icehorses 1 year ago
I'm glad to hear that you love your horse and that you would not use these methods! Can you post videos of your horse(s) tolting at liberty and under saddle? Thanks!
icehorses 1 year ago
@icehorses I've got one online at the moment of her doing something i think is flying pace (i'm very much a beginner considering tolt and especially flying pace) but that was sort of accidental - no influence of mine in there haha! You can check that one out if you'd like (it is unclear, as it was filmed with my phone) and i'll let you know if i can get one of me tolting with her as well ;)
xxAlchemistressxx 1 year ago
@xxAlchemistressxx Thanks. Yes, it's difficult to see the individual legs, but she does go very lateral at some points; some stepping pace. How's her trot?
icehorses 1 year ago
OK..
1. Icelandic horses are really really strong!
2. And they are the only horses in iceland.
Learn more about the icelandic horse and try to ride one and then you can try to tell something..!
And like one glever man said:
" Never but down another breed until you have trained, worked with and completely understand that breed" This was said to Matt Sheridan from his grandpa!
And PS. This commen is not to you Judy!
icelilje 2 years ago
Horses are not made to be sat on.But we do.THEREFORE we have to help the horse work in a way that makes it carry both itself AND the rider.THAT we do by collection and balance.You mention balanced rider, but never balanced horse.The boots(190 grams)are only in contact with the hoof,compare with your Tennessee Walkers!A whip barely touches,to guide.If it hits it's used wrong way.All I see on your "natural" pic is a horse that carry you on its sceleton and front,not with it's hind and muscles.
AnetteAronsson88 2 years ago
Hi Anette! Thanks for writing! Personally I have never seen an Icelandic Horse that is collected or in balance. Excusing 190 gr boots because another breeds wear heavier weights, is not right. The horse should be able to gait without mechanical aids. If this is such a natural horse, let's get rid of the mechanical aids! Also have never seen an Icelandic using his hind muscles to carry. You are a wonderful photographer and your photos prove my points.
icehorses 2 years ago
Icelandic competition rinding is a showsport, it shows the best the horse can perform, you cant compare that to western riding. Its salt vs. pepper..
LadyBlacksheep 2 years ago
Its not unnatural just because its another riding style than you practice. And its not just a small T. Walking horse trained a bit different. I agree that the competitions have its flaws. But if your a good rider you can make the horse run like this with NO force. Let me just find some links for you..
LadyBlacksheep 2 years ago
Icelandic "horses" my ass - they're just coarse ponies. And why an adult needs to ride a pony??? Don't have enough balls to ride a real horse, maybe..
Liberty9m 2 years ago
Icelandic horses are called horses cause the icelandic people don't have a word for pony. And they are very proud of their horse. To say they "don't have balls" to ride a "real horse" makes absolutely no sense. Firstly, they have no choice, as icelandic horses is the ONLY breed in the country. Secondly, it's no less dangerous to ride an icelandic horse, or a PONY if you wish, than other breeds. You could say that other riders don't have balls / talent to handle two extra gaits ;)!
Synna89 1 year ago
I dont have the ame impression of icelandichorse-trainers as you do. New saddles is pretty short, and the riders I met is training the horse after dressage-principles. They focus on being relaxed in the body, and try to avoid that the horse get tensed. I tried a horse trained by a icelandichorse-trainer, and I she was extremely soft in her mouth, and very sensitive to my movements. More soft and sensitive than any other horse I have tried.
The metod you describe reminds me of the old way.
esile567 2 years ago
i dont like gaited horses
natural or not
it just doesnt look nice,
and it looks unconfortable
or bad conformation
a horse should be slightly up hill even muscle build from
hind to front and have smooth topline.
especially to those who make there horses go this way to an extreme.
some people will go to any extent to have that "smooth gaited ride"
learn how to sit to a big flowing trot lazy prick riders.
halfpass92 2 years ago
my mare goes tölt naturally. with rather high knee action. and look at some horses on YT like Bjarki frá Aldenghoor. he goes tölt smoothly with high action, too. why must everything be cruel and artificial just because you dont appreciate icelandics or whatever youre hoping to accomplish by this video. some horses have high knee actions. naturally. so i dont understad why you have to make such a big deal of it.
merderpiperleo 2 years ago
Can you provide a video of your horse's action?
icehorses 2 years ago
to compare a horse gaiting really slowly with one gaiting really fast, like here, doesn't really show anything. If the first horse got excited and/or tölted faster, it would look completely different. I don't agree to all the crap people use, but you're way over the top.
nanakla 2 years ago
I thought we were talking "tolt".
Can you find a video of natural tolt, at liberty, with high action? or provide a video of your horse showing it?
icehorses 2 years ago
Yes - that extra "flair" is much the same as in the show arena...
Have you NEVER seen a horse do a big round, extended dressage-type trot in the field/at liberty? Have you NEVER seen horses strutting their stuff and showing off in the pasture with animation and action? High knees, high hocks, round, forward? Have you NEVER seen horses free-jumping with that incredible tuck and hooves to their elbows - NOT induced by poling or anything else stupid?? I am sure you have...
smoofox 2 years ago
The Icelandic in question here can be seen doing an amazing flying pace down the fence with high knees in front - and he is not being forced to do so. He has not even been ridden in a few years now... and yet - amazing! - he has that action that some maintained only comes about through "abuse"...
smoofox 2 years ago
Are we talking about the same type of action as in the show ring?
Some horses can bring their knees up to horizontal, but is it natural for the horse's hoof to come so close to the elbow?
So far, no videos of natural tolt at liberty with this type of show ring action.
Try to get a video; a neighbor or friend must have a little digital camera that can be used to take a few seconds video.
Thanks!
icehorses 2 years ago
You know, things are not always black and white. Saying they are does not make it so. And they do not always fit the parameters and/or follow the "rules" that one has set in place...
The "truth" is almost always found in the many shades of grey to be found between either extreme...
smoofox 2 years ago
I have no video capabilities. I have seen other Icelandics do it as well as other gaited breeds. It just shows that your claims that all high action is forced or artficial are not true... . Gaited horses do not all gait the same way with the same kind of action... some are low and/or barely gait at all - and some have that extra flair. Just as with W/T/C horses - some are high, floating movers, some are not.
Basic horse sense.
smoofox 2 years ago
"Gaited horses do not all gait the same way with the same kind of action"
Absolutely; you are correct.
"some have that extra flair"
Yes, but is it the same action as in the show ring?
icehorses 2 years ago
Some of what you say is rubbish. The high knee lift can and does happen NATURALLY in many horses - and yet you have always insisted that it does not... for years and years now.
Perhaps you better explain that to my Icelandic who tolts with that kind of high action in the pasture at liberty... no one is mechanically forcing him to anything artificial.
But of course that does not fit in with your long-established theories....
smoofox 2 years ago
Can you post a video of your icelandic tolting with high action at liberty? Thanks!
icehorses 2 years ago
hehehehehehehehe, beautiful greenpeace riding, keep up the good work ;-) ;-)
Fraeva96 2 years ago
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Fraeva96 2 years ago
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Fraeva96 2 years ago
Oh :(
RoseRed129 2 years ago
what i dont understand is why u compared a tolt to a running walk! they arent the same thing
koolcuttyanoop152 2 years ago
Exactly. Some Icelandic Horses naturally do a running walk, but they are not "allowed" to do their natural gait by the icelandic-style trainers and riders. They are forced to tolt instead.
icehorses 2 years ago
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koolcuttyanoop152 2 years ago
HAHAHA ur funny the way u think u no every little detail about the icelandic pony... i ride an icelandic and she goes into the tolt naturally and it looks much like the picture of the "manipulated" horse... has it ever occured to you that it just DOES it?? i also ride a tenisee walker and it automatically holds its head up very high... does it occur to you that it just might be a natural ability that that horse possesses?? gawd ppl these days
koolcuttyanoop152 2 years ago
i ride saddleseat on saddlebreds and they r bred to do wat u think is bad. they r supposed o look like that. i dont no wat is natural to icelandic horses so i cant rly say that ur an idiot or not. if someone posted a video saying saddlebreds r supposed to put their heads down and not pick u their feet that wud def b an idiot.
tazerkaner1988 2 years ago
I also ride saddlebreds saddleseat. and people all the time say how unnatural it is. but yet you can find pics of very young foals with their heads held high and their knees coming up level and even racking! some things come naturally to certian breeds of horses.
CHCorporateFocus 2 years ago
ok i got soemthing to say. i got a icelandic horse and she prefere to Tölt then anything els. and no i do not force her to do it. By some horses its naturly and they can actully get the lift high up. And there are actully rules for how long whipe can be, where your saddel is on the horse (and HOW you sit on it), how big/small the bide is for the horse and etc. And if teh judges think you are pushing the horse too much you get disqualifred. and read about the icy before commetn thx
LitlaStjarna 2 years ago
of cors every single person in the world who ride their horses/ponies in an artificial sort of way should soo watch this vid people who ride their horse atrificial should learn to do it naturally that is just soo wrong to do such a thing to a poor horse/pony! :( u r such a great person whoeva made the vid!
x peace!
horsinaround101 2 years ago
Some idiots think this looks nice!?! It's grotesque.
Lagolop 2 years ago
This video is kind of ridiculous. I agree with MOST (but not all) of what jmdnarri and chachahorse have said so I will not repeat previous posts. I also think it is silly to compare some person *walking*, not gaiting their horses in a halter in their backyard and a person that is at a show. You also need to get your facts about gait correctly. Icelandics are bred to Tolt (same as Rack), not runwalk. BTW, treeless saddle aren't that good for horses since there is no tree to distribute the weight.
Kentuckyboy101 2 years ago
And you have studied horse gaits and biomechanics for how long? Icelandic Horses are not bred to tolt specifically, many of them have fox trot and running walk as natural gaits and those horses should NOT be forced to rack with bits, shoes, weights, saddles, whips, heavy contact, riders sitting on the loins, etc.
icehorses 2 years ago
ok i dont get this: I´ve tried replying to your "just kids" comment TWO times, have seen "comment posted"-text, yet I still dont see it here? O_o
Jefrma 2 years ago
Comments with vulgar language included are deleted.
icehorses 2 years ago
This is an overly ELEMENTARY video of natural vs. artifical. Videos like this one would have uneducated horse people believe that the purpose of a whip, bit, spurs, or noseband is to torture the horse into doing a gait it shouldn't be able to do. All these items CAN BE (and should be) used correctly by a skilled and educated rider to ENHANCE what the horse does naturally. Only when used incorrectly does it cause the horse discomfort.
jmdnarri 2 years ago
However, you can't deny that metal in the mouth is unnatural for the horse. Would you like having metal in your mouth?Bitless bridles work much better and the horse feels way more comfortable.
Lollitsa 2 years ago
I love all these people who claim to know what's best for the horse. It's not natural to sit on a horses back, either. Riding is an art, and art means ARTIFICIAL!
demonagurl 2 years ago
First of all saddles are designed to spread the weight out on the horse's back so its not concentrated on the spine, to make it easier for them.
Secondly, how do you ride a horse with no bit and no nose band? Just jump on and hope they go where you want?
chachahorse 2 years ago
The statement is good -- but why do you compare a horse in walk with one in 'Tölt'?
Steedrider 2 years ago
That is not walk, it is running walk, which some Icelandic Horses do naturally without having to pull them into an unnatural frame and use metal in their mouths to cause them to gait from pain.
icehorses 2 years ago
Then why does it have 3 legs on the ground? That is not correct tölt.
Forkastanlegt 2 years ago
very good point, Forkastanlegt. Icehorses: as I said before- I have seen icelandic horse doing tölt it´s head up reins totally lose. I doubt that horse gaited from pain..?
Jefrma 2 years ago
When an Icelandic Horse tolts *naturally* (not the ones who are forced into that frame and taught to take that frame no matter what), he may take that frame of his own accord; he won't need to be held with heavy contact, tight noseband, severe bit.
icehorses 2 years ago
great to see we agree on this small but yet important detail :) no matter what is done with the horse, FORCING looks always ugly. The pictures I saw- in them it was a very fast looking tölt, and the frontfeet rose very high-yet the horse was holding it´s head up with totally lose reins, ears UP :) now that looks pretty *nods*
Jefrma 2 years ago
Off topic, but since you like Fjords, and just for fun, did you see this video: MSevUQC4_l0
icehorses 2 years ago
Exactly! That's the point!
Icelandic Horses aren't bred to tolt. . Some do it naturally; some do not. They are bred, and then the ones who do not naturally tolt, are forced to tolt.
If this was not true, would we see all the mechanical aids in the shows? in normal riding?
No, I think if the horses tolted naturally, they would tolt bareback, bitless, barefoot, and any other way without the external forces.
icehorses 2 years ago
and they wouldn't have a rider on their backs at all!
demonagurl 2 years ago
they era bred to tolt u should look at the breeding scheme for the desirable characteristics the breeding scheme puts 15% importance on the tolt characteristic which is the hieghest out of everything they look for...get ur facts right...and there are lot worse things in the horse world happening than using different tack...maybe cutting horses tendons to get them having a high knee action is worse?
maviemoo 2 years ago
ok look this was a great clip she put a lot of effort into it chll out people every one has an opinyune but u dont to gang up on people!"
horseygirl129 2 years ago
im on your side, your video is extreamely well made and people have thrown nasty comment your way but it goes right back to them the next time they get chucked off there horse!!
people need to wake up and realise that whips/spurs are not neccessary.
well done to you and keep making these vids :-)
ofcorsehorse 2 years ago
You really have no idea what you`re talking about, do you?
To use one picture as an example is just hopeless....
I hope you think of dressage as mechanical too? Because teaching a horse to find its gaits are just the same thing.
And offcourse there are people out there hwo never should be near a horse, but that doesn`t mean that it can`t be done right.
adniv 2 years ago
OOHHH MY GOD!!!!
maybe when you reed some books about horses.... spend some time with horses, Then maybe, just maybe you´ll have ANY idea of what you´re talking about!!!!
Mundilferrari 2 years ago
Seems like some of the icelandic-style trainers are following me and changing things for the better of the horse.
Remember to read the links in the sidebar, about the Cavallo article, and what Gerd Heuschmann says.
"The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
"All truth passes through three stages.
First, ridiculed. Second, violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
icehorses 2 years ago
This video displays one thing and one thing only... and that is just how little you know about the Icelandic horse and it's abilities. The pictures you use are poor examples, the natural gait is nothing more than piggy pace, which we Icelander don't want to see in our horses.. and the artificial and forsed horse is clearly showing tölt and is clearly what we call hestefni. The bit is a bit too long YES, but many horses do lift their front legs NATURALLY, with out boots.
I could go on and on..
astamarus 2 years ago
Please provide video support for your position.
If the horse does this gait naturally, why would you want to force tolt on him?
Why not breed for good gait and not force those horses who don't naturally tolt, to do it.
Every single show and competition of Icelandic Horses should show the horse's NATURAL gait. If tolt is desired, it should be without equipment, just natural. If the horse doesn't do it, don't breed that horse.
Did you read the websites listed in the video description.
icehorses 2 years ago
Yes I did read the websites and you blogs and some other pages too. I would like to know who those people are that are making all these statements. What goes for dressure horses does not fit the icelandic horse, it is a very different horse breed, with 5 gaits: walk, trot, gallop, tölt and pace. Running walk and fox trot are not there among. Tölt is a natural gait, we are NOT forcing it on to the horse. You should spend more time in my country, studying our horse. I will go out make a video!
astamarus 2 years ago
"Running walk and fox trot are not there"
Sure they are; as long as one knows how to identify them.
"Tölt is a natural gait"
Then why is there so much force, and mechanical aids?
"I will go out make a video"
Looking forward to it!
icehorses 2 years ago
well said, astamarus! It´s idiotic how it seems some people claim the tölt-ride cruelty because they compare it to dressage! Icelandic horse is NOT fit for any dressage-performance, so how can you judge riding one from dressage or some classical riding-base??
Jefrma 2 years ago
Jefrma and astamarus, you're just kids, right? You don't have that much horse experience or education in horsemanship and equine biomechanics?
icehorses 2 years ago
The Icelanders who come here say that the horse can be ridden by a 300 lb man all day on rough terrain (not that it is believable), so fatness shouldn't be a concern for you to point to. Why take the focus away from the subject of the matter: the bad riding practices. Did you read the links under the description? Evidently the bad riding is noticeable by many others.
icehorses 2 years ago
Standing up for the wellness of horses: OK!
Showing that even prof-riders or riders who winn many contests do ride rough sometimes: OK!
But showing a very fat rider on a horse who is not in condition and going in a stiff piggypace as example of how the icelandic should be ridden: NO WAY!
Please get yourself better informed about what good riding actually is...
hrafntinna84 2 years ago
Ok so now you're saying that cause im a teenager I dont know what im talking about, I've bin training and braking horses all my life, and guess what, they are icelandic horses and wow .. I'm Icelandic. Gosh can you believe that. These pictures are taking at a split secon, get a hold of yourself! This is something you can see in every other sport tht includes animals, think about it, they are alive and when they don like something they act up, and then its our job to find a new way to work it!
bleller8888 2 years ago
I think you should stop yapping around about things you dont know anything about! ...
bleller8888 2 years ago
Why do the teenagers make comments like this and have nothing significant to add to the discussion? C'mon, if I knew nothing about it, would the experts and I have come to the same conclusion? Bleller, have you read what the experts have to say about this? It's there to see in black and white, in pictures, in video, in real time. It's obvious to anyone with any knowledge of horses. Someone within the breed needs to make a change for the better welfare of the breed. Will you do something?
icehorses 2 years ago
PERHAPS the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason. ~~Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776.
icehorses 2 years ago
Seriously, what you're saying is, that the good compeeting horses all suffers from pain cause of
the way they ride them ?
That's totally bizare, my stalion does naturally lift his legs up in the air without any weight. I use a whip, a saddle like that one in the movie and all the other stuff, and as far as I know, my horse is really happy. He enjoys getting trained for the future competitions. As long as I can see, you're just pulling compeeting riders and horses down, and gloryfie horsemanship
KARLOOTM 2 years ago
"Horses don't perform well when they are in pain. They become agressive or just won't do anything"
Exactly. That's why they *have* to carry whips with them.
Whips... with a pony?!?!?
How about some horsemanship?
We CAN do something about it; we ARE doing something about it.
And proud of it.
One less Icelandic Horses to suffer from ignorance; or the quest for a blue ribbon above the horse's welfare.
icehorses 2 years ago
Horses don't perform well when they are in pain. They become agressive or just won't do anything. Anyways, I really doubt that the horse was in pain, pain. Yes, the rein contact could have been lighter.
But over all of this... What can you do about it? *sigh* and shake your head. There isn't a lot we can do about it.
freedomstrengthhope 2 years ago
If you actually look at this, that kind of way.. Then most likely all of the horses, all the breeds, all the gaits, all the competitions is manipulated. You do have a point, but just because the Tölt looks good it doesn't have to mean that the horse is uncomfortable.
AmandaFjordell 2 years ago
"because the Tölt looks good it doesn't have to mean that the horse is uncomfortable"
Yes, you're right. But it is also easy to see a horse's discomfort. Sometimes, though, it becomes part of the "normal" picture and no one notices it for it's true meaning.
For instance, the horses tossing their heads, fighting the bit... do the riders ever get red cards for this poor riding style? If not, why not? Is it even noticed?
When will it change for the better of the breed?
icehorses 2 years ago
I don't agree with you at all. It sure is people who does theese things to their horses but not everyone. It isn't all about looking as good as possible, the judges also look at those little things and how the rider does on the horse's back.
AmandaFjordell 2 years ago
No not everyone does it, but if the judges are looking, how many "tickets" do they give for this type of riding?
I think we are in good company with others who see the problems in this type of riding (see the "more info" on the description of this video.
icehorses 2 years ago
Whether the video's information is incorrect or not, I still don't believe in artificially changing a horse's gait. No good can come of it unless the artificial gait. Animals (people included) stand and walk the way they do because of their bone structure. I for instance have a skeletal structure closer to my father than my mother, despite being a girl. I've never met my father until I was in my 20s, yet I've always stood, the same way he does. My hips cause me to walk and run differently though
luccaskunk 2 years ago
I seriously doubt that the first horse is doing a running walk. A flat or dog walk maybe but not a running walk.
blkequus 2 years ago
I agree with the fact that tölt is often ridden with a too heavy rein contact. I myself do Icelandic riding and know that it's definitely not necessary. Tölt can be ridden with very light aids if both the rider and the horse are properly and patiently trained.
Lumeveraja 2 years ago
That is wonderful. Can you supply some video of a tolt ridden lightly? Thanks!
icehorses 2 years ago
I can try to obtain one. I should get a better camera.
Lumeveraja 2 years ago
You've probably heard this before; you have no clue what you're talking about. Where do you get your information anyway? You need to do some more research and get some more reliable information instead of just making up stuff up.
psoas13 2 years ago
I agree
jahehahe 2 years ago
I third that
freedomstrengthhope 2 years ago
Thirding it doesn't make you more right than the experts who can see the problems in the breed.
Even the world agency is concerned with the appearance of this type of riding in the breed.
icehorses 2 years ago
I do not agree in this video, the rider may pull the rein to hard, but not everyone who rides in competitions do that. Just take a look at this video: icelandic horses hall of fame then you will see. And the horse you said was ridden "natural" could never go as god as the other horse.
synnesynne1 2 years ago
I know nothing about Icelandic horses, I ride Tenn. Walkers and other gaited breeds and I agree with thie video, even though it is a heavy rein and seated way back on the the saddle in that manner it's not consider by most to be mistreatment, But I think it is! It's not natural at all but thats the way they are shown. Same with Tenn. walkers only they use a built up shoe too and train in chains, I don't believe in this method but they do it.
Trailriderjude 3 years ago
hmmm, if it is such a lie, then why do you see in each and every competition video all over the net such heavy rein contact.you seem to be far more concerned about disqualification in the show ring than with the pain and mistreatment inflicted on these horses. what is it you have against treating horses in a manner that doesnt cause pain, whats so wrong with that? why on earth would you be opposed to that?? Maybe losing out on that winner ribbon??
jasparhen 3 years ago
hmm, if it is such a lie, then why are there photos and videos all over the net showing heavy rein use in competition... you seem to be more concerned with disqualification in the show ring than withhorses not being mistreated. why is it so offensive to you that a horse should be ridden without pain? a horse ridden with so much contact is being abused.
jasparhen 3 years ago
This is a lie.. Firstly, Heavy rein use in icelandic horse contest will get you disqualified.
Secondly, pulling reins hard will make the horse bend its neck, not pull it up. The reason the head is up is because it's natural when they're doing the tølt. Especially the ones that lift their legs high.. Only very strong horses can bend their neck down while doing the tølt, all experts say so. You should never try and get the head down in tølt if the horse doesn't have a very strong front.
Synna89 3 years ago
"Heavy rein use in icelandic horse contest will get you disqualified."
I think we have a disconcert as to what "heavy" means!
My gosh, the reins are straight and tight.
What is light? when the rein is loose and the horse still knows, understands, and is trained to respond lightly, softly, and correctly; without pulling on his mouth, head, and neck.
icehorses 2 years ago
Dont't get me wrong, I see your point. I just wanted to share with you that there ARE some rules. And icelandic horses also compete in something called T2, which is amazing. It's tolt on loose reins =)..
Synna89 2 years ago