Steven Mosher Exposes Population Control in His New Book

[TheDragonCastDown]

@waters2100 I don't know where you live, but here in the United States, all fifty states support abortion. The federal government even funds it with tax payer money. In my country, over a million potential human lives are lost every year, sacrificed on the altar of vanity. Here the pro-life movement is comprised entirely of private citizens who are losing. So what's your answer? More annihilation?

[majesticdragoon]

@TheDragonCastDown

Only abortions where the life of the mother is threatened by pregnancy or the mother was a rape victim may be publicly funded.

Anyway in which the state may step in to force abortions on citizens or ban them from performing them IS population control.

[initword1]

guys don't be so hard on him, he just wants everyone to have more sex

[FleshMob]

Myth? There are facts about number of people on earth, it's pretty obvious that overpopulation is happening!

[GenghisKhan44]

@FleshMob Overpopulation of certain regions, but not the planet as a whole.

And even then, we could increase the sustainability of the planet and those regions by providing them with modern accoutrements, and even simple things like food and water. We have enough to do that - it's just not in the right places.

[SepharimWing]

He is quite right to say that a 'One Person Limit' is not the way to handle this, and Overpopulation may be just a myth, but he is assuming that once the population goes down again, that the Chinese government will take no notice and literally strangle itself. It is like not eating because there is no food, then continuing not to eat even though there is much food.

[GenghisKhan44]

@SepharimWing Point taken - well taken.

There is one thing that I'm currently wondering about... Might the migration of the impoverished masses to develop new cities, towns, and farms be a better use of the populations than simply killing them off?

If we send developers and settlers to start new towns in barren but arable, vaguely hospitable lands, mightn't we all be better off?

[SepharimWing]

@GenghisKhan44 That would be good. However, it would cost quite a lot of money to make that action. You would need to make the land more fertile, have a lot of seeds and saplings for regrowth, and building materials on top of that. Couple that with the fact that it'd take quite a lot of time before the resources come to fruition, it'd be a massive money drain.

[Greginda11]

@SepharimWing

So basically your saying that its a good idea to not kill them off instead giving usable land but it will cost alot of money so it's not worth it. Hmmm and I wonder why there are people in Africa that think the west is trying to wipe them out...

[SepharimWing]

@Greginda11 Hey. You don't even know where I'm from, so don't make an assumption based on where I apparently live. You cannot make money appear out of nowhere, this isn't a fairytale land. It's better to be helpful but harsh instead of optimistic and lying.

[Greginda11]

@SepharimWing

How the hell am I assuming where you live? I know fair well the enormous costs that it will take to save the third world but you know what? We can do without alot that we already have (society as a whole), If we were to take the money we spend on entertainment and apply that to aid agencies there wouldn't be that much of a need left. I say the cost of their lives is worth more than our comfort.

[SepharimWing]

@Greginda11

I understand what you're saying. However, the human is a very stubborn creature. In order to get the people with the money to donate, you need them to get motivated about it.

Also, a lot of the money that could help this cause is USED IN COMMERCIALS TO ADVERTISE THESE SORT OF THINGS. At the very least it would cost tens of millions of dollars to publish this book, so it's kinda redundant.

[GenghisKhan44]

@Greginda11 Sorry, but I have to agree with SephWing on this one. Thanks to the modern view of economics, when people pay for something, most of the time they expect to get something back.

Maybe if we sold them timeshares in the impoverished villages they support...

[Greginda11]

@GenghisKhan44

I realize that it would be giving up on luxuries but considering the majority of western societies expendatures are on entertainment we could afford to be generous and take honest real action to solve problems. In terms of food production it would take 6 trillion to make the farms to feed the third world (we still would need to do something about the warlords). Considering the weath that we have it would cost alot but it is doable the only thing stopping us is our greed.

[GenghisKhan44]

@SepharimWing Or maybe serious diplomatic and/or military efforts to reorganise the governments of poor countries would be a better investment?

According to this article:

newsflavor(dot)com/world/afric­a/the-10-poorest-nations-in-th­e-world/

9 of the 10 poorest countries in the world (all in Africa) suffer from some form of mismanagement, be it a corrupt dictatorship or a complete LACK of government.

Infectious diseases are another big problem, so clinics would be a fine investment.

[SepharimWing]

@GenghisKhan44 Yeah. The bad thing is that the public and media will consider the governments cruel and harsh if they seek to crush these corrupt groups. Putting in money to reorganize and create governments would be good, but it'd need protection, at least, for any groups that controlled the public before have methods to stop these actions and movements.

[GenghisKhan44]

@SepharimWing You make an excellent point (considering what they did to Bush and Iraq - waste of money and lives to the U.S., but I think it helped the Iraqis).

Still, isn't it just as cruel to sit back and let horrible things go on without doing anything?

[SepharimWing]

@GenghisKhan44

Yes, but it's even more cruel to make a hasty action that ends up twisting the metaphorical knife. They need to think of a way to very quickly and efficiently kill the corrupt groups controlling the impoverished countries, otherwise the groups will become aware, and hold the country hostage.

Better to create a foolproof plan in ten years and wipe out those in control with one move, then making a quick plan in 1 year that they can defend against.

[GenghisKhan44]

@SepharimWing I agree with you. A strong, solid plan is the only way to properly solve the problems of the world.

If only the government were showing any signs of actually trying to come UP with a plan, but alas, they show neither sympathy, concern, nor any will to do anything about it.

Bush was an idiot, and he did his part to help create the deficit (and the recession), but his dedication to saving the Iraqis from Saddam Hussein was endearing.

Am I thinking of something else?

[SepharimWing]

@GenghisKhan44

You are right. Barack Obama is kinder, but hasn't done anything. He lives in a country where everything is (relatively) fine, so his ambition to stop these countries is dampened by a lack of immediate danger.

[GenghisKhan44]

@SepharimWing I don't agree with you on the "kinder" idea (abortion, population control, what's nice about that?), but you are right. Few people here in America understand the urgency of the problem.

[troutback]

sharkblubber.. china announced just last week that it was sterilizing 10,000 people. not all of them voluntarily. it was reported that 1,400 relatives of couples targeted for sterilization were detained to force compiance with the sterilization policy.

if you really believe in population control, then support industrialization. nothing brings about population decline faster. well, except mass murder, like that practiced by mao and stalin. i can't help but get the feeling you support that.

[lee0495]

human's are in a real tight spot..........................­.......we suffer if we're chose any of the given choices

where's the third choice when you need it?

[sharkblubber]

steven mosher wants to ban contraception outright, the effects I observed first-hand were an increase in unwanted pregnancies, an incease in backstreet abortions often resulting in the death of young women, a rise in HIV infection and ecosystem service loss due to increased demand for natural resources leading to potential famines. Mosher wants to deny men and women the right to use contraception.

[sharkblubber]

Stephen Mosher was expelled from Stanford University due to "illegal and unethical conduct." during his work in China.

[Greginda11]

@sharkblubber

So? Doing what is right ticks of the people that are doing wrong. I'm pretty sure that Chinese and UNFPA officials called in some favors because they didn't want anyone to know what was really going on. Call him a bastard all you want he has CONCRETE evidince of forced abortions in China, Peru so bring up anything about him you want that doesn't make him wrong. =)

[sharkblubber]

@Greginda11If you cannot separate the UNFPA voluntary contraception programs from Chinese government policies then thats his and your problem.The UNFPA states by law that the programs it finds are (1) fully voluntary (2) "women are free to voluntarily select the timing and spacing of their pregnancies," (3) in keeping with the principles of the 1994 Cairo Program of Action, abortion is not promoted as a method of family planning. I have lived in China, the UNFPA does not fund coercive measures!

[Greginda11]

Yeah they say that to your face but then they also say that they work hand and hand with the organizations that are found guilty of it and not just in china, Peru and vietnam too. There was enough evidence that the US Congress stopped all funding to UNFPA. They are lying through their teeth saying that they are not guilty of forcing women to abort. Even democrats believe it and voted against funding them so whats your problem?

[sharkblubber]

@Greginda11 Wrong, I lived in China and saw the UNFPA in action, They did not support coercive measures and the cuts to UNFPA funding decision was reversed last year because it was shown that the UNFPA programmes are non-coercive. Look it up it happened in march 2009. Do you know how long moshers UNFPA smear report took to compile (4 days) ,not thorough is it! While forced abortions are horrible do not blame the UNFPA for it as they are not responsible for it, the govts in these countries are.

[Greginda11]

@sharkblubber

the UNFPA has said nothing against the coercive actions of the government. In fact there has been nothing but praise from the UNFPA on the programs in Peru and Vietnam who use coercive abortions. They support the family planning laws in which include laws forbid that medical treatment, right to own land etc. to people who have have more then 2 kids. It might be the government that is doing it but the UNFPA has never spoken against it so i say they are just as guilty.

[GenghisKhan44]

@Greginda11 People talk about pro-lifers being pro-coercion. If only they knew about China, Peru, and Vietnam, and so many other places...

UN is twisted.

[kreitzr1]

Many children are in foster care because their parents won't release them for adoption. Besides should babies be killed to avoid placing them in foster care? By that reasoning we should kill all the prisoners in jail to prevent having anyone in jail.

[msshrink81]

Out of curiosity...since the United States alone has OVER 500,00 innocent children in foster care, what is the solution to take care of these children? To make birth control and abortion illegal so that we can multiply the number of children in orphanages and foster care?

[uncleshushu]

We support your work, Steven. Reminds me of a cartoon I saw once with a panda holding a sign that read "Save the Baby Humans."