Questions for Christians: Should Christians pay tithes?

[thyran1992]

@love4christ77 - Render upon Caesar the coin with Caesar's image on it. Since WE were made in God's image, we are to render to God OURSELVES. Jesus wasn't speaking about money, or tithes and offerings.

Regarding Hebrews 7:8, "And here men that die receive tithes..." the Book of Hebrews was written BEFORE the Temple was destroyed. Thus, the present tense is used because the Jews were still taking the tithe to the Levitical priesthood until the Temple was destroyed.

[thyran1992]

@love4christ77 - Render upon Caesar the coin with Caesar's image on it. Since WE were made in God's image, we are to render to God OURSELVES. Jesus wasn't speaking about money, or tithes and offerings.

[love4christx77]

Yes christian are to pay tithes to the church.The bible says Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.Malachi 3:8 When we hold back our tithe and offering we are robing from God.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 But who is that verse written to? To the priests of Israel. Not to the church.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus This was spoke to Israel for holding there tithes and offering from the priest and the Levites of this time.God from the beginning told us to give to the priest or ministers over us Numbers 18:21 I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting.Why do we tithe to the house of God to keep the house up and running.If no one would tithe in the house of God the doors would end up shut.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Do Levites serve in your church?

If people stopped tithing, the church would be fine. We cannot place the church under the law of 10% giving just to have money coming in. The NT church is financed by free will giving.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus In fact we see Jesus saying in the new Testament And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him. He has never done away with that Law of tithing God bless.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Then no one does the tithe correctly.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Where in the Bible Were Tithes Abolished?

1. WHO #1: The Levitical servants to the priests who received the first whole tithe have been abolished. See Numbers 18:21-24. Modern equivalents to the Levites are unpaid ushers, deacons, choir, musicians, etc.

2. WHO #2: OT priests who received a tenth of the tithe (only 1 per cent) have been abolished. See Num 18:25-28 and Neh 10:38.

[TheotherPrometheus]

3. WHAT: The definition of tithes as only food miraculously increased by God from inside His holy land of Israel has been abolished and replaced with the false unbiblical definition of income. See Leviticus 27:30-34 and 14 other texts which describe the contents of the tithe. Yet money was common in Genesis.

4. WHERE: The destination of the OT tithes first to the Levitical cities some to the Temple has been abolished. See Neh 10:37b and Mal 3:10.

[TheotherPrometheus]

5. WHEN: The time to tithe has been abolished. The Levitical tithe was paid yearly in the Levitical cities. The second festival tithe was eaten at the three festivals. The third poor tithe was kept in the home every third year. Tithes totaled 23 1/3 per cent.

6. WHY #1: The covenant which prescribed them was abolished per Heb 8:8-13; Gal 4:21-26' 2 Cor 3:6-10.

7. WHY #2: The "commandment" for Levites and priests to collect tithes was "annulled" per Hebrews 7:5, 12, 18.

[TheotherPrometheus]

8. WHY #3: The law which condemned believers has been rendered of no effect when the believer died in Christ per Romans 7:4. No law can tell a dead person what to do.

9. HOW #1: Jesus abolished the law of commandments contained in ordinances per Eph 2:13. Tithing was an ordinance per Num 18.

10. HOW $2: Jesus blotted out the handwriting of ordinances, per Col 2:14. Tithing was an ordinance per Num 18.

[TheotherPrometheus]

11. HOW #3: The Temple which tithes supported was abolished in AD 70. God's temple is now within each believer per 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19-20.

12. HOW #4: The priesthood which was supported by tithes was abolished in AD 70. God's priesthood is now within every believer per 1st Peter 2:9-10.

13. HOW #5: The blessings and curses of tithing as part of the whole law have been abolished per Galatians 3:10-13.

[love4christx77]

We wish to have steady incomes and under God's plan that same steady income is provided to the priest(full time ministers) through tithing. God takes care of his own. In the church today ten families tithing could give a steady income of to a fulltime ministers household equal to the average of the ten families. As we know this rarely happens.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Tithing is not part of God's New Testament plan. Ministers can be supported through grace giving. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

Let me ask you: Who is God's own? Aren't we ALL God's Children? Doesn't God take care of ALL of us? Or should God take care of only those who lead the Church?

Here's another question for you to consider. Why do you think the Church struggles so hard to enforce the Tithe? Could it be that the Tithe is a false doctrine, not from God?

Until you're willing to question whether the Tithe is relative to the Church today, there is no reason to talk with or listen to you.

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 God takes care of us as we take care of those that he has over us.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

The only one over us is Jesus Christ. Everyone else is a Human Being who either follows Jesus Christ or rejects Jesus Christ.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus Please note that the duties of the Levites filled the book of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy and yet the only issue repeated here over and over again is tithing because it is relative to the church today. The writer mentions how that men that die received the tithe under the law to let us know that men that die today still receive the tithe.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Hebrews 7 is not about the tithe. It is about the greater priesthood of Jesus.

The tithe is mentioned to show that the Levites, who received the tithes in the OT system, paid tithes to Melchisedec, who was a Christophany, a type of Christ.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

You say Tithing is relevant to the Church today. I think you're wrong. I think the point of Hebrews 7 is to show that even Levi, who received the Tithe, also paid the Tithe to one like Jesus. This makes Jesus a Priest, a higher and better Priest than those of Levi.

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 God designed to change both the law and the priesthood, and to introduce Jesus as the only Priest and Sacrifice, and to substitute the Gospel system for that of the Levitical institutions. The priesthood, therefore, being changed, Jesus coming in the place of Aaron, the law of ordinances and ceremonies, which served only to point out the Messiah, must of necessity be changed also.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77 

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 could not reconcile God to man, purify the unholy heart, nor open the kingdom of heaven to the souls of men, consequently it must be abolished, according to the order of God himself; for he said, Sacrifice and offering, and burnt-offering, and sacrifice for sin, he would not; see Psalm 40:6, Psalm 40:7, compared with Hebrews 10:5-10, and with Psalm 110:4, where it is evident God

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

The law was not abolished. It was FULFILLED by the only One who could, God.

That was the reason the law was given. Not to be obeyed, but to lead Mankind into submission, to admit that God's law is so much for us that we CANNOT obey.

Galatians 5:1

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

What is this yoke of slavery? Galatians ch 3-4 talked about the law. So the LAW is the yoke of slavery!

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 Jesus done away with all 613 ceremonial laws but never has he done away with the Moral laws.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

How is that Love, that God left SOME of the law intact for us to obey? How is that Grace?

John 6:29

"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

And again,

Romans 13:8

"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law."

That is the only thing left for us to do, share God's love with others. But how it is love if we give people a list of rules to obey?

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 We should not look towards the Moral law as our salvation i am not stating this in no way.What i am saying though is that the Moral law should be a mirror to us even once we accept Jesus as Lord why because we should want to be more like Jesus.We as Christians do not go around commenting adult nor do we steal the moral law is only a mirror to us.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

The law is a mirror that leads us to Christ. Once it has done it's work, the law is done. And then we are not to be lead by the law. We are to be lead by the Spirit.

If we are in Christ, we are not to sit there looking at a mirror looking for sins. We are to let God do His work in making us a new creature.

That is total reliance on God. It's not about what we do, it's all about what He does!

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

If you love Christ, then why do you cling to the law? Don't you know that Christ brings life, but the law brings only death?

Don't you know that there have been only two perfect men in all of history? The first, Adam, gave up his perfection for a lie and so became spiritually dead for the rest of his physical life.

The second, Jesus Christ, remained spiritually alive his entire physical life, then gave His physical life up for us and then gave His spiritual life to us.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

So when we admit that we are spiritually dead, the only thing for us to do is to take up Christ's spiritual life, and then share it with others.

No amount of laws, morals, or self-improvement regimens will make any difference. We can say and do the right things, but as Isaiah said, "all our righteous acts are like filthy rags".

That is why we stand on Christ, rely on Christ, move in Christ. Because otherwise, we are spiritually dead.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

How is it love to tell sinners that Forgiveness and Salvation are free, but once you have them, you have to toe the line, follow a list of laws, and give 10% of your income?

Is it free or not?

Is God's approval based on what we do, or on what He has already done?

If it's on what we do, then why does it say "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness"? It doesn't say "Abraham believed and obeyed God", or "Abraham's belief lead to obedience".

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

The Bible does not say "Christ did away with the Ceremonial laws but the 10 Commandments are intact".

The Bible does not say "Give a tenth of your income to the Church".

The Bible does not say that the Tithe has changed from food grown in Israel to money earned by Gentiles.

And Jesus says "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?". They answer "Caesar's". Jesus is actually telling them to NOT give money, because the money had Caesar's portrait and inscription.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

But when you tell people to Tithe, you are placing God's Children back under bondage. Everyone is again obligated to do certain things for their benefit or to please God.

That is not the gospel of grace. It is a gospel of works.

When we understand that we cannot earn salvation or growth, that the only thing we can do to get them is open ourselves up to receive God's free gifts, then we will have the power of God.

Until then, we will be trying to get them through Human effort.

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 - Ministers revive tithes and also tithe to the Lord themselves it is a two fold working here.Hebrews 7:13 That is, The order of Aaron being now abrogated, to make way for that which had preceded it, the order of Melchisedec.There is made of necessity a change also of the law - The very essence of the Levitical law consisting in its sacrificial offerings; and as these could not confer perfection,

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

Ministers do not receive tithes today. The Biblical Tithe was food produced in Israel by wealthy land owners. It's NOT ok to change it into something else.

Does it make sense to say that all the law has ended except the Tithe and the 10 Commandments?

Galatians 3:24

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith."

Romans 10:4

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes."

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

Matthew 15:3

"Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

The command of God for the Tithe is found in Lev 27:30-34. The Tithe was "grain from the soil or fruit from the trees", and "every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod".

It was given to Levites as their Inheritance and distributed to the poor. God did not change the Tithe from this into money that goes to the Church.

You violate the command of God to follow this man-made tradition.

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 The Ten commandments will never be done away with.Tithe Jesus spoke of its importance in Marak 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.The bible never dose away with tithing.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

If you believe we are still under law, then you do not have a covenant of grace. You have a covenant of obedience to God's commands.

The Bible does away with Tithing at the Cross, as it does with every other law of the Old Covenant. But if you want to Tithe according to law, do so.

Go to Israel, buy some land, give a tenth of your fruit and grain. Give the tenth animal which passes under the rod. Give them to the Israelites, as the law says.

Otherwise, you violate the law.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

You either keep the law (and deny Jesus Christ), or you surrender yourself to the knowledge that you CANNOT keep even ONE of God's laws, and need Jesus Christ to keep them on your behalf.

Romans 3:20

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Why do you think God came down to earth, suffered as we did, surrendered His life, then took it up again? Just to do away with ceremonial laws?

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

That seems like a very small God to me. God didn't just do away with the inconvenient laws that nobody liked anyway. God FULFILLED the ENTIRE law.

God has done EVERYTHING for us. There is NOTHING left for us to do but to accept His love and share it with others.

Jesus talked with those following the law. He called them hypocrites. They had an appearance of lawfulness, but inside they were full of dead man's bones and everything unclean.

That was the BEST the law could produce!

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

So when we are in Christ, we are free of the law, and of man-made traditions. We are free be lead by the Spirit. And God does not tell everyone to do exactly the same thing.

God does not tell everyone to give money to support a building that will be torn down someday, or leaders who are supposed to be equals as sons and daughters of God.

Mark 12:35

Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all.”

[love4christx77]

@blueskunk12 Hebrew 7:13 was not speaking of tithes.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. 9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus

Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus Once again Jesus never abolished tithe neither did the bible.We cant say Numbers 18:21-24 dose away with tithe unless we agree that God contradicted himself.God commands tithe and offering Malachi 3:8.Jesus commands tithe and offering in Mark 12:17

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Take a look at the verses I listed. We don't have Levites or sons of Aaron to give tithes to, we don't live in the holy land, most of us don't grow crops or herd animals. These alone excuse us from the tithe. Then there is the fact that gentiles were never under the law in the first place.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus 2 Corinthians 9:7 was speaking of offering not tithe.Many Jews had a problem with offering and what should be given Paul clarifies this by saying Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.It was also speaking of alms and giving to the poor.Bro what i am trying to get you to do here is studying the scriptures out learn what they mean not only on top but also behind.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Yes, it was speaking of offering. That is how the church is to give, by offering, not by law, not by compulsion.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus Tithe was put into affect so the ministries who ministered in Israel would receive an income that has not changed God still aspects his ministers needs to b3e met.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 You're right. It hasn't changed. Our ministers aren't in Israel, so we aren't under the tithe law. Our ministers can be supported through new covenant grace giving.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus Jesus did not teach that though.What do you think Jesus ment when he said give to God what is God's?He was referring to tithes and offerings.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Jesus never taught the church to tithe.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus Jesus dose tell the Jews that.Give to God what is God's this was speaking of the tithe and offering that was taught to the Jews there whole life.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 Yes, it was taught to the Jews. The Gentiles never tithed. Christians are not Jews.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77

You say that has not changed. I beg to differ.

Hebrews 7:13

"For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law."

The whole point is that it HAS changed. We no longer support the Church workers and Priests with the Tithe (which was NEVER money). Instead, we support them not by law, but by voluntary donations.

If there is no change, then there is no reason for Christ to die. God has not changed who He is, but has changed how He deals with us.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus In the Old Testament we see where God tell Israel he is done with all the feast laws and he wants nothing to do with it,not so with the law of tithing though just before the close of the old testament he tell the Jews that they have robbed him by not giving the tenth to him.We can go at this for hours but the fact is God never released us form this law.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 We were never under the tithe law to begin with. Only the Israelites in the promised land were.

[love4christx77]

@TheotherPrometheus Bro the Levites were speaking of ministers.We still have ministers preaching the gospel as a living.I have a task for you bro if you can show me where in the New Testament Jesus done away with Tithing.For instance i can show you where Jesus done away with the cleaving law,the civil law as well as others but he never did away with the civil law.

[TheotherPrometheus]

@love4christx77 The Levites were Levites. We are not commanded to give tithes to just any minister.

In fact, Gentiles were never under the tithe law to begin with.

[blueskunk12]

@love4christx77Promethesus is right. That was not written to us. It was written to the physical Israel, not to us.

It was physical Israel who received the command to Tithe. It was physical Israel who were told to put a tithe of the tithe into the storehouse.

You can't claim we are under grace, then beat people up with the law. They are not compatible.

[onstageagain]

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[itsnolongeri]

Giving isnt the issue really, it's about weather you HAVE to tithe to your church, in Australia alot of the churchs (charasmatic/pentecostal) teach that if you dont tithe you are under a curse, makes it a pretty interesting subject imo.

[postmodernchris]

As for tithe I think your money will be invested or spent on were you heart lies... So I would do a evaluation where you are spending/investing  your money even if you are not a christian...

[postmodernchris]

"it is something that true Christians" I have a problem with this statement , Christianity is based around the death of Jesus Christ's and his saving grace. What this means is, we can't do anything to save are self but only by his grace. this statement sounds like there is something we can do ourselves to be more saved, but that would be against the Bible. Only Jesus can save, so we can strive to be more like Christ but this doesn't mean they we are any more saved then anyone else.

[nberrios7]

Do you have to be told give to someone you love? No one "HAS TO" tithe. It is something that true Christians who are thankful enjoy doing. Galatians 6:6, "The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him." 2 Cor 9:7, "Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." 1 Timothy 5:18, "...The laborer [minister] is worthy of his wages."

[wrapartists2]

the Word of God is the Word of God old testament or new. and the mission of the devil is to deceive kill steel and destroy. Dont let the tools of man confuse your walk with the Lord. I recommend you and your wife spend time seeking a word from God in prayer and let him show you his will for your life and finances. Give faithfully and trust God to provide your every need.

[benno9438]

isnt it like tithes is a tenth of what you have but it doesnt allways have to be money right ?

[justinr1000]

tithes were never money

[prettydiana122003]

I've learned that one of the purposes of tithing is so the gospel of Christ will continue to be preached to all the world. Also, it tells God that you are entrusting him with everything you have and look to Him as your sole provider; not man.

[rollsroycecooley1]

Well n Matt.23:23 win Jesus is teaching the Phar. He says this ye ought to do(tithe) and since tithe means tenth(not give) he says you ought to give a tenth. I think!LOL

[justinr1000]

Yep, he did say that to the pharisees. But, the pharisees were under law, and were required to obey all of the requirements of the law. Paul said that new testament believers who are trying to be right with God through the law (eg tithing) are under a curse, and are cut off from Christ. Also note what Jesus told the pharisees they were to tithe.....then ask your pastor for a reference where you are supposed to tithe money (old or new testament).

[prophetessgoldie]

Tithes is Old Covenant we are under the New Convenant

Read Hebrews @ 7:22;8:6-13;9:8-22

If you follow Man he will put you in bondage with the same Word God Came to Make you Free with.

Tithing will not get you into the Kingdom of God and it is not your Salvation

I have never Tithe and I'm Truly Bless

But I am a Cheerful giver

I give and Bless the less fortunate,with my own Finances,without taking from anyone else and expecting them to give me something in return

[prophetessgoldie]

Malachi 3:8 is Old Testament,if you read the whole book of Malachi you will see that the Prophet was not talking to the Body of Christ,he was talking to Israel and the levites,Priest

If you rightly divide it you will see that God was not talking about Money

2 Tim 2:15 the bible said's "Study to shew thy self approved unto God,workman needeth not be ashamed,rightly dividing the word of Truth

So you must study for youself,so you wont be tossed from every wind of Doctrine Eph 4:14

[wjs7652]

Check out w w w dot stoptithing dot com.

[mappylad]

The question actually is "What is giving for?" Tithes were for widows, orphans, aliens and Levites in OT. NT giving was similar. If your church does not give 100% to destitute then it "robs God" Malachi 3:4-10. Any giving used for anything else is not what giving is for. Acts 2:45 states that the disciples sold their possessions and "gave to anyone as he had need". Each person gave to the destitute! Paul in 2 Corinthians 9:12 says that giving to poor causes men to praise God.

[fivetenmontrail]

I wana slather you up in cocoa butter and knead your body all over. Oh yeah baby, this is for real.

[unclesmiff]

you talkin to me?