Your "Sun Style modified" is a modification of the 73 competition routine which is in turn a modification of the 97original Sun Style. No doubt someone will in turn modify your modification, a natural process to be expected. All I hope is that the original Sun Style of Sun Lutang will not get lost in the process.
This player is obviosly an experienced practitioner. He is abiding by all the principles of tai chi, plus adding a layer of creativity. His interpretation is very different, but at the same time facinating. On the whole, I like it, but it does take time to get used to.
Are you serious??? It doesn't seem to conform to any of the standards of Sun style tai chi, for instance the head height does not stay level, the rhythm, the hand positioning is consistantly incorrect throughout, hell, the feet and hands are even wrong in the opening move "Lan Zha Yi". I would say that this is the worst performance of Sun Tai Ji I've ever seen. Check out almost any other video on youtube of Sun style. Jesse Tsao, Fay Yip, Sun Jian Yun, anyone...Please!
the majority of other performers of Sun taichi that you can see on youtube have copied the form to a "T" from a 90-year old lady. This is really stupid: she is simply too old to do it in any other way, and to see young guys doing the same thing is ridiculous. This is martial arts, for chirst's sake.
There are no standards in taichi, only principles. all people are different phisically and mentally, they can't do the form in exactly the same way.
I understand what you are saying, but there are correct ways to perform these martial moves which are standard across the board handed down from the founder. Single Whip for instance, the hands are supposed to horizontally extend to their limit as if the hands are resting on a bamboo pole. Also, the move "open/close hands" is purely a Qi Gong move, not martial. Lao Gong points should face each other. One could make the argument also that why move slow and soft if this is a martial art?
"handed down from the founder" - why are you so sure of that? Sun Jianyun was never really keen on doing martial arts and headed the Sun family school only when the late Sun Lutan's friends urged her to. The Sun i learned was said to be handed down through one of Sun's pupils (which is rare) and it is different. All these moves have combat applications. when you do the form, you are supposed to imagine a real opponent in front of you, and not a "bamboo pole". Being dogmatic is not real taichi.
Yes, I understand, and I pretty much agree with you. Weird thing though, a famous teacher, a student of Wang Pei Sheng who lives here in my home town always says not to imagine you are fighting while practicing the form because you will get too tight. For me, I am too old to think about Tai Ji for self-defence, time to think of health instead! LOL The only thing I will say is that I don't believe the kai shou/he shou move is for self defence. Kudos to you anyway, you are to be respected!
I was discussing this issue with a friend who studies with this student of Wang Pei Sheng. He told me that his teacher also said that to think of each move in Tai Ji as a self defence move would be bad, because each move in Tai Ji is supposed to be unlimited in it's applications. Again, I'm not a serious player, so I always ask advice.
Actually, taichichuan is such a manyfold thing, one can find in its practice what he needs at some particular moment . I have been doing it for eight years and had two different teachers, got to know personally another three or four, all practicing different styles and in different manner, read plenty of books and biographies of masters. Basically, I have learnt one thing: there are no rules. If it FEELS right, its right, no matter how it looks from the outside. All the best ;)
Is it also not a Tai Ji principal that when one leg is empty the other is full? Before you lift a leg to move it, there must be absolutely no weight on it?
Your mistaken... A martial arts practitioner should strive to move as little as the weakest old person does.( as long as it's effective...) Thats the point, to move as little as possible.... and make it work..
it's just not easy to do, even though it is.... if that makes any sense
Sun Lutan himself never hesitated to modify traditional forms, otherwise we would not be practising any "Sun shi taichi chuan" today.
Everyone on the net is used to seeing Sun Lutan's daughter doing the form - and she was rather old when that was filmed. Besides, from what I read, she was never very keen on doing martial arts.
Modified how? I wonder what Sun Lu Tang would have come up with if he had studied the Wu Chuan You style of Wu style Tai Chi rather than Wu Yu Xiang style of Wu/Hao style Tai Chi? Very interesting.
Slower/faster is not harder or easier. Harder/easier is the "how" & not the "speed." In Sun style, slow for learning its dymanic "root" change and how the ground path passing through the dan tian must change from one foot to the other mid-execution in many forms.
Wise words. At the moment, I practice more Chen than Sun Tai Chi. The question of slow and fast is therefore very pertinent. Wishing you a prosperous new year.
um it looks very relaxing but i dotn really like the way it goes i take modifies karate style otherwise known as modka its alo more fast but i still think yours is fine too.
What I mean is with age, the motions become inevitably slower ... If I post a Sun Tai Chi video each 50 years (my current age), you will easily notice that :-)
Thank you for your indulgence. I hope you don't mind if part of my answer to your message is the same as mine to Mushin. Folowing your suggestion I will modify the title of the form : "TaiJi Sun style modified", waiting for a better idea.
Hello. Sliding step is a style caracteristic : you slide forward moving the right foot, left one follow lifting its heel. When the punch is supposed to hit the objective, left foot must grisp the ground, pelvis making a retropulsion movement, tanden always "full". Whe also find this step in Tang Lang and Karate (Yori ashi). Yang style draw force from back heel (well posed), and transmit it with horizontal rotation of pelvis (Li Guanghua).
actually your postures are pretty good! and of course there is nothing 'wrong' with freestyling a little, in fact though the mind is important, posture is equally important!, one question-can you do the sun style form from beginning to end?, if you learned it and THEN improvised its movement I see nothing improper, but if you are just playing with tradition maybe it's wrong to call it sun style, peace!
The problem is not "something new" versus "tradition". I learned that in Tai Chi Chuan only the mind is important, the form is secondary. The form is nothing but a support for mind training (meditation in movement). Taking this logic to extrêmes, other martial arts, other sports, all usual activities, walking, driving, writing ... may not differ from practising Tai Chi Chuan : with the same mind.
Having said that, I must confess I am hopeless in Tai Chi Chuan ... But don't tell anybody :-))
Thank you for your comment. I conceive that many differences with the traditional way could hurt persons who are attached with these traditions. With practice, I succeed to forget what was these constraints, and find my own way, with applications that seem natural for me. By the way, I like Liu He Pa Fa very much. But it should be better for your serenity (and the inventor's)that I do not plan to pratice this marvellous style :-)
sorry, maybe i was a bit to harsh to you, but i love the traditional Sun Style an what you do is very different. The differences are the same as between Sun Taijiquan and Hao Style Taijiquan, the Style Sun Lutang learned before he createt his own Style.
Indded, you are right. I learned this form more than 20 years ago with another name (a vietnameese one. Longtime after I find out it was grosso modo Sun Shi Taiji Quan. I thought is is justice to point out that Sun Lutang was the real father of this form. Although children grow up then go their way ...
very good Tai Chi, nice one!
TheZhongzheng 1 year ago
Your "Sun Style modified" is a modification of the 73 competition routine which is in turn a modification of the 97original Sun Style. No doubt someone will in turn modify your modification, a natural process to be expected. All I hope is that the original Sun Style of Sun Lutang will not get lost in the process.
Taijimad 2 years ago
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shujiminato 2 years ago
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shujiminato 2 years ago
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shujiminato 2 years ago
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shujiminato 2 years ago
This player is obviosly an experienced practitioner. He is abiding by all the principles of tai chi, plus adding a layer of creativity. His interpretation is very different, but at the same time facinating. On the whole, I like it, but it does take time to get used to.
siayape 4 years ago
Are you serious??? It doesn't seem to conform to any of the standards of Sun style tai chi, for instance the head height does not stay level, the rhythm, the hand positioning is consistantly incorrect throughout, hell, the feet and hands are even wrong in the opening move "Lan Zha Yi". I would say that this is the worst performance of Sun Tai Ji I've ever seen. Check out almost any other video on youtube of Sun style. Jesse Tsao, Fay Yip, Sun Jian Yun, anyone...Please!
VladtheEmailer 3 years ago
the majority of other performers of Sun taichi that you can see on youtube have copied the form to a "T" from a 90-year old lady. This is really stupid: she is simply too old to do it in any other way, and to see young guys doing the same thing is ridiculous. This is martial arts, for chirst's sake.
There are no standards in taichi, only principles. all people are different phisically and mentally, they can't do the form in exactly the same way.
xeniamoscow 3 years ago
I understand what you are saying, but there are correct ways to perform these martial moves which are standard across the board handed down from the founder. Single Whip for instance, the hands are supposed to horizontally extend to their limit as if the hands are resting on a bamboo pole. Also, the move "open/close hands" is purely a Qi Gong move, not martial. Lao Gong points should face each other. One could make the argument also that why move slow and soft if this is a martial art?
VladtheEmailer 3 years ago
"handed down from the founder" - why are you so sure of that? Sun Jianyun was never really keen on doing martial arts and headed the Sun family school only when the late Sun Lutan's friends urged her to. The Sun i learned was said to be handed down through one of Sun's pupils (which is rare) and it is different. All these moves have combat applications. when you do the form, you are supposed to imagine a real opponent in front of you, and not a "bamboo pole". Being dogmatic is not real taichi.
xeniamoscow 3 years ago
Yes, I understand, and I pretty much agree with you. Weird thing though, a famous teacher, a student of Wang Pei Sheng who lives here in my home town always says not to imagine you are fighting while practicing the form because you will get too tight. For me, I am too old to think about Tai Ji for self-defence, time to think of health instead! LOL The only thing I will say is that I don't believe the kai shou/he shou move is for self defence. Kudos to you anyway, you are to be respected!
VladtheEmailer 3 years ago
I was discussing this issue with a friend who studies with this student of Wang Pei Sheng. He told me that his teacher also said that to think of each move in Tai Ji as a self defence move would be bad, because each move in Tai Ji is supposed to be unlimited in it's applications. Again, I'm not a serious player, so I always ask advice.
VladtheEmailer 3 years ago
Actually, taichichuan is such a manyfold thing, one can find in its practice what he needs at some particular moment . I have been doing it for eight years and had two different teachers, got to know personally another three or four, all practicing different styles and in different manner, read plenty of books and biographies of masters. Basically, I have learnt one thing: there are no rules. If it FEELS right, its right, no matter how it looks from the outside. All the best ;)
xeniamoscow 3 years ago
Is it also not a Tai Ji principal that when one leg is empty the other is full? Before you lift a leg to move it, there must be absolutely no weight on it?
VladtheEmailer 3 years ago
Comment removed
xeniamoscow 3 years ago
Your mistaken... A martial arts practitioner should strive to move as little as the weakest old person does.( as long as it's effective...) Thats the point, to move as little as possible.... and make it work..
it's just not easy to do, even though it is.... if that makes any sense
jekylfoot 2 years ago
Sun Lutan himself never hesitated to modify traditional forms, otherwise we would not be practising any "Sun shi taichi chuan" today.
Everyone on the net is used to seeing Sun Lutan's daughter doing the form - and she was rather old when that was filmed. Besides, from what I read, she was never very keen on doing martial arts.
xeniamoscow 4 years ago
Modified how? I wonder what Sun Lu Tang would have come up with if he had studied the Wu Chuan You style of Wu style Tai Chi rather than Wu Yu Xiang style of Wu/Hao style Tai Chi? Very interesting.
ophuchew 4 years ago
Slower/faster is not harder or easier. Harder/easier is the "how" & not the "speed." In Sun style, slow for learning its dymanic "root" change and how the ground path passing through the dan tian must change from one foot to the other mid-execution in many forms.
JCHendee 5 years ago
Wise words. At the moment, I practice more Chen than Sun Tai Chi. The question of slow and fast is therefore very pertinent. Wishing you a prosperous new year.
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
um it looks very relaxing but i dotn really like the way it goes i take modifies karate style otherwise known as modka its alo more fast but i still think yours is fine too.
mexicoman22 5 years ago
This form is a very good for relaxing after hard training in another martial art. I admit I could perform it slower. Maybe in a few decades ?
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
perform it slower? is it harder to perform slower or harder??
mexicoman22 5 years ago
What I mean is with age, the motions become inevitably slower ... If I post a Sun Tai Chi video each 50 years (my current age), you will easily notice that :-)
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
o yeah its the same thing with me art but with age you still dont grow slower you grow faster with age its very ironic.
mexicoman22 5 years ago
Thank you for your indulgence. I hope you don't mind if part of my answer to your message is the same as mine to Mushin. Folowing your suggestion I will modify the title of the form : "TaiJi Sun style modified", waiting for a better idea.
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
Why do you lift the back heel in the forward stances?
shikonboss 5 years ago
Hello. Sliding step is a style caracteristic : you slide forward moving the right foot, left one follow lifting its heel. When the punch is supposed to hit the objective, left foot must grisp the ground, pelvis making a retropulsion movement, tanden always "full". Whe also find this step in Tang Lang and Karate (Yori ashi). Yang style draw force from back heel (well posed), and transmit it with horizontal rotation of pelvis (Li Guanghua).
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
actually your postures are pretty good! and of course there is nothing 'wrong' with freestyling a little, in fact though the mind is important, posture is equally important!, one question-can you do the sun style form from beginning to end?, if you learned it and THEN improvised its movement I see nothing improper, but if you are just playing with tradition maybe it's wrong to call it sun style, peace!
curtrod 5 years ago
Good argument. New video = something new. Otherwise just need only one reference video.
elyahou777 5 years ago
The problem is not "something new" versus "tradition". I learned that in Tai Chi Chuan only the mind is important, the form is secondary. The form is nothing but a support for mind training (meditation in movement). Taking this logic to extrêmes, other martial arts, other sports, all usual activities, walking, driving, writing ... may not differ from practising Tai Chi Chuan : with the same mind.
Having said that, I must confess I am hopeless in Tai Chi Chuan ... But don't tell anybody :-))
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
Heavy modified Sun Style. Very bad. Seems to have no idea about the Applications.
mushin000 5 years ago
Thank you for your comment. I conceive that many differences with the traditional way could hurt persons who are attached with these traditions. With practice, I succeed to forget what was these constraints, and find my own way, with applications that seem natural for me. By the way, I like Liu He Pa Fa very much. But it should be better for your serenity (and the inventor's)that I do not plan to pratice this marvellous style :-)
Have a good day, dear Mushin ("empty heart" ?)
nghoaivan2 5 years ago
Hello Nguyen Hoai Van,
sorry, maybe i was a bit to harsh to you, but i love the traditional Sun Style an what you do is very different. The differences are the same as between Sun Taijiquan and Hao Style Taijiquan, the Style Sun Lutang learned before he createt his own Style.
Why not give your Style a differnent name?
mushin000 5 years ago
Indded, you are right. I learned this form more than 20 years ago with another name (a vietnameese one. Longtime after I find out it was grosso modo Sun Shi Taiji Quan. I thought is is justice to point out that Sun Lutang was the real father of this form. Although children grow up then go their way ...
nghoaivan2 5 years ago