Views on Abortion and after death - The Atheist Experience #388

[Katalyzt]

So we wont be hearing from the first caller again. ;O)

Katalyzt

[dejesusluisx]

After all the dust settles, we have only two choices. Either the universe brought itself into existence, or something outside the universe, an external cause brought it into existence. The problem is how something could brought itself into existence? Isn't possible, therefore the cause must be external. The only thing present was energy. The God of the Bible is described with the same attributes of energy before energy was described. The existence of God is the best explanation. Open your eyes

[Sean1Sullivan]

@dejesusluisx Question though. How did God bring himself into to existence then? I mean, if the universe has to be created, I guess God does too, right?

[dejesusluisx]

@Sean1Sullivan Energy is eternal, it can't be created or destroyed, it's a scientific law. Since God is energy, God is eternal. So God existence has been confirmed by science.

[Sean1Sullivan]

@dejesusluisx So all energy is God? Shame that energy isn't sentient nor intelligent by any definition.

[dejesusluisx]

@Sean1Sullivan God has 100% of the attributes given to energy, so God can be defined as energy, on the other hand, energy has only a fraction of the attributes given to God, so energy can't be defined as God. There are many forms of energy and God is one of them, so God can be compared to energy but energy can't be compared to God.

[Sean1Sullivan]

@dejesusluisx So you've basically made it so your God cannot be tested or disproved. By doing that you've lost all credibility and right to a rational debate.

[Nverdis]

@dejesusluisx That is a false dichotomy, a known logical fallacy.

[dejesusluisx]

@Nverdis How so? I haven't seen any reliable source affirming that.

[Nverdis]

@dejesusluisx U can have a definition encyclopedia right here: htt p : / /w ww. logicalfallacies. info /

[dejesusluisx]

@dejesusluisx Is the argument reasonable and logical? Logic and reason are your best source for philosophical arguments.

[dejesusluisx]

@Nverdis What is?

[Nverdis]

@dejesusluisx the link, I split it because youtube doesn't allow links

[8698gil]

Education about sex and contraception being made available would drastically reduce teen pregnancy. People who think that "not telling the kids" will stop them are hugely wrong. It does NOT stop them. We are dealing with hormonally challenged teenagers. Doesn't anyone remember what that was like? I do. The best we can do is provide them with tools to deal with this perfectly natural phase of their lives.

[8698gil]

I've always believed that teaching kids about contraception is important. Religion tells people NOT to use contraception, but really, is there any way to stop horny teenagers from having sex? I say, educate them, give them access to contraception, its a losing battle to deny education and contraception. They will do it anyway.

[mischief692]

fuck abortion the should be no suck thing to hell with all those mother fucker who think it should be a choice bastards dont deserve to live

[cdhanks]

When men can get pregnant then they can make decisions about abortion.

[Tarynus]

@cdhanks So, we're putting the subject in the hands of Arnold Schwarzeneggar? Are you sure that's wise?

[timdnwd]

Abortion is the woman's choice. After 3 months only exceptional circumstances is abortion allowed, that's the law in Australia. No-one should have the power to dictate to another person how to run or what to do with their lives. Just follow the laws of your country (as long as it's a democratic country) then everything should be ok,

[darkchibicosmos]

Yeah I agree with them. It can get more complex. Girl A goes out clubbing everynight having one night stands without protection, gets pregnant...you feel less inclined to let her keep having these abortions as opposed to Girl B who was walking down the road, got dragged into the woods and raped by some guy. There are other cases regarding health too. So it may eventually be up to evaluation and pleading your case someday.

[marvscap25]

I'm starting to think that humans just create stuff so we can argue about it. abortion, god, political views. i mean come on, can we just fuck each other like were supposed to?

[mrslash11]

What an awesome caller. I really, really enjoyed that

[Mikeybetts]

i vote that aborting when abortion is possible and getting it done SOONER rather than later is better.

so i stand with these guys, when its still a mess of cells, go for it, but when its developed and ready to come out?... no

[JuanchoMan]

the caller then promptly hanged up from the 747 cockpit he had hijacked that afternoon and then proceeded to drive the plane and its passengers straight into the ground*

[TheVladimere9]

Its your body. end of discussion

[madass888]

I'm an Atheist and I'm against abortion. Some people may have other definitions of human, but I think an embryo is human. It contains the full DNA and it has the will to live and grow. Of course in cases where the mother's live is in danger, it will be an act of self defense to abort it.

[halflifefan84]

@madass888 Yes, but we kill MILLIONS of organisms that are a lot more alive then a fetus! I don't get why people are so anti abortion, if the person having a baby is a bad parent, and/or they don't think they can do a good job parenting it, they shouldn't have it. If they have it then give it to an orphanage, it's a lot worse IMO, weird things happen at orphanages, most people who adopt kids are those fat bitches who are on welfare, aka very bad parents who are only in it for money.

[madass888]

@halflifefan84

I consider a fetus a human life, you might not. And I regard human life more valuable than any other creature's life. Actually I regard human life as the most valuable of everything.

[direngrey4569]

@madass888 if you were a llama you'd feel the same way about llamas. it's self interest.

[aikikev]

@madass888 what makes us so special, why should our lives matter more than any other animal? not being disrespectful just want to know your reasoning

[madass888]

@aikikev

This I find hard to answer objectively. I could say from an evolutionary pov species consider creatures from their own kind more important since they're needed for cooperation and reproduction. But if you look from a universal pov we're just a bag of chemicals.

In the end it just comes down to feelings. I've seen a lot of animals die in documentaries and it doesn't feel the same as seeing people die.

[atheistram]

@madass888 So just because you feel that killing fetuses is wrong, we should stop abortion completely??

[atheistram]

@madass888 That's only because you're a human. An alien form of life would regard those of it's people as the most valuable. :P

[atheistram]

@halflifefan84 Plus there's the fact that God aborts babies through miscarriage EVERY DAMN DAY (if religion is correct). God has aborted many more fetuses than man will ever be able to. :P

[youbetzler]

72 virgins are you crazy? 72 dud lays that are gonna cling on you like superglue? shit dude if we're gonna delve into the realm of fantasy let's get juicy. All the liquor you can drink with no ill effects whatsoever. 100 nymphomaniacs that are completely disease free and your favourite food whenever you want it without getting fat. Plus chuck norris vs the combined group of Steven Segal, Van Damme, Sylvester Stallone, Arnie, Mr T, and bruce lee for entertainment... fuck yeah i want that

[ShroomFuu86]

yay votebots

[AncaThirteen]

It's sad to see this much fail from the hosts.

[ViperRob42]

Mormons get their own universe when they die? cool lol

[RedSandStudios]

"How come for us, it's an abortion, and for a chicken, it's an omelet?"

-George Carlin

[LifeLibertyLove]

@RedSandStudios How come I should go to jail longer for killing your mother as opposed to killing your chicken?

[witch26071]

My point is where do you draw the line between human and non-human? I'm an atheist but i just don't agree with abortion! P.S.

[P0weredByPie]

72 virgins? LOL. White raisins of crystal clarity, more like.

[Darthmas2242]

Hrm...Did you know that those little baby foetuses are flushed away at a woman's period? Getting pregnant is surprisingly hard O.O

If you're against abortion, lock up any woman who's had more than one period! xD

[ostbagen]

Sung to the tune of "I'll fly away" a Christian hymn.

When I die and my life is over I'll rot away.

6 feet down underneath the clover I'll rot away.

I'll rot away how gory,I'll rot away.

When I die I won't go in the sky

I'll just rot away!

[KaelaCarver]

I feel that regardless of all the arguments for it, the main thing is simply that abortion must happen. The world will (most likely) never be at a place where it is able to prevent or cope with all the unwanted pregnancies without abortion. Nobody likes "dead babies" it's just a fact of life

Yet this view does nothing to diminish my wonder and respect for a new human life. As a birth advocate I can appreciate the beauty as much as the next person.

[rossg1]

Open-Atheist  . com discuss your atheism

[Airlightf]

Why do men become gays? especially those that were abused sexually by...those in jail too. Why do women abort their babies? Wait, to sacrifice it to society? or because of the shameful act that was done outside marriage? Why did "I" become an atheist? Uff, there is no God. Evil is greater than God. Abortion, homosexuality, atheism etc --a lot of proofs refute God's Existence :)

[valray2413]

loved that! hahaha.

[MrJetco]

I would trust an atheist about as far as I could throw them. How can you trust someone who is immoral and is out of jail beause he is afraid to do time so does not do the crime.

[blackplatypus]

Erm... what? Atheists aren't more immoral than religious people. If you look at prison statistics, they show exactly the opposite.

Atheists only represent about 1% of the prison population and countries like sweden, denmark and japan are some of the least religious in the world and have waaaaay lower homicide rates than places like the US.

[cerealk53]

@MrJetco Isnt one of the goal of jail to deter people from commiting crimes? The main obejective isnt to punish people AFTER the crime, but to stop them BEFORE. I suppose a religious person wouldnt understand the concepts of taking responsability for hir action and respecting the integrity of others.

[bttrflykiss7701]

"Oh... I thought we were having a discussion about reality...!" haha

[l337pwnage]

Boy, I sure am glad I'm not just a bunch of cells! O...wait...

[eboshi122]

Thanks for posting this. Sorry to see you've been repeatedly votebotted. 5 stars from me.

[Airlightf]

@eboshi122 Excuse me, Atheists’ arguments against God are laughable and moronic: If I can give Christian a better life (than the kind of life Jesus—their king—gives them) or at least show them[convince them with facts my way is better than Jesus’] the best way to live life, then I have a right to open my mouth and speak up. But if I cannot do either, then the best thing for me to do is to shut my mouth and let Christians live their lives in Jesus’ Love, Way, and truth!!!

[keggerous]

hahah dude that was the best religious caller ever man! seriously ive heard a lot of these shows and that was the BEST!

[ISDP1337]

The only thing I'm still curious aobut though is this: instead of simply denouncing abortion and trying to illegalize it like some people do, why not instroduce policies that promote the use of contraceptives?

I don't particularly like the idea of abortion, but if we can avoid the moral "grey spot" in the first place in a lot of cases wouldn't that be a huge step towards resolving the issue?

[aeroldoth]

1) Catholicism says contraception is evil

2) Planned Parenthood supports contraception, so it must be wrong.

3) For most of US history, until recently, it was illegal to get contraceptives, or even info on contraception, unless you were a married couple.

4) Many Americans are pretty immature and backwards regarding sex and sexual matters.

D'ya suppose religion might be responsible?

[ISDP1337]

Sadly, yes.

[cerealk53]

@aeroldoth Sex is a powerful force in human life. Anyone controlling such a force can control people easily.

[ISDP1337]

This basicly sums up the abortion debate in my mind:

Murder is wrong, on this we can all agree. What is murder? Murder is killing another human being. What is a human being? Now that's where the problem lies.

[rba718]

72 virgins, pretty cool guy

[1rishShaman]

What exactly was your main point? Sorry, it's just with your wall of text and no spaces or spare lines, it's hard to figure where that wall of text was headed, other than an angry message.

- Paul M.

[SimKoning]

Look, I'm an atheist and I'm against abortion in all but the more extreme cases. However, I don't think killing a zygote is murder any more than a man masterbating is murder. Chopping up any life form while it is still alive for no real good reason is fucked up in my opinion.

[1rishShaman]

Agreed.

- Paul M.

[cerealk53]

@SimKoning Abortion isnt contraception and should never be used as such. The main issue is that most people against abortion dont recognize women's right to self-determinism when it comes to their bodies. Its not about wanting to destroy embryos and fetuses, its about being sovereign in your own body.

[maikeru01]

@SimKoning yea i think what they mean by people being against it being religious is that only people with religious reasons could say that it's wrong in all cases. Only a religious person would deny a rape victim of an abortion, for example. Atheists can be against it but we are against it or for it on a case by case basis since we are actually evaluating the conditions rather than just applying a blanket of thoughtless dogma. I think that's what they meant.

[freethinker923]

@SimKoning I wouldnt say that chopping up a zygote is murder, but there is intrinsically more value to a fertilized developing egg than a mere sperm cell. If left alone, the fertilized egg will eventually become a human while the sperm cell will not.

[sicktoaster]

@freethinker923

The sperm will become another human being if it combines with the right resources "(an egg). Same with the fertilized egg. It must combine with the right resources(nutrients introudced in the womb) to become a human. Neither if left alone(equivalent for leaving the sperm alone would be removing the fertilized egg and just leaving it there) will become a human.

[SickMouth]

@SimKoning I wouldn't say that abortions happen "for no good reason."

[halflifefan84]

@SimKoning Yes, but we kill MILLIONS of organisms that are a lot more alive then a fetus! I don't get why people are so anti abortion, if the person having a baby is a bad parent, and/or they don't think they can do a good job parenting it, they shouldn't have it. If they have it then give it to an orphanage, it's a lot worse IMO, weird things happen at orphanages, most people who adopt kids are those fat bitches who are on welfare, aka very bad parents who are only in it for money.

[SimKoning]

@halflifefan84 My adopted brother in law disagrees... and thinks you are an idiot.

[atheistfromaustria]

@SimKoning please consider two facts: firstly, abortion will take place. If not made by a doctor then by someone else which may also damage the girl/woman; and secondly, nearly all abortions are made before the 10th week (many from 6th - 8th) where the fetus is about as big as a thumb. By no means a living creature and by no means any kind of consciousness.

[MrEdLoop]

@atheistfromaustria (Preface: I'm an atheist.)

On the abortion thing, I look at it this way:

1. In the instance that there is a significant health risk involved with the specific birth, an abortion is justified.

and

2. In the instance that it can be proven that the parents are unable to care for a child, and that there is no other alternative, an abortion is justified.

In any other case, be a bit rounder for nine months and then put the baby up for adoption.

Or, better yet, use protection.

[SimKoning]

And yes I know it's 'masturbating'. typo...

[TheBeerVolcano]

@MClover420 Are religious people against science AND grammar now?

[defcore108]

At first I read the title as "Views on Abortion after death".

Made me think...

[imentionedthebisque]

Ashley looks so much like Matt in this video. I swear I've seen Matt wear that exact shirt in later episodes!

[riseofatheism]

they must have a costume department

[andmarikis]

Creepy.

[LaCerca]

Haha