@Flagrum3 the shroud was given to the church by the wife of the grandson of Jeffrey DeCharney who was burned at the stake along with Jaques DeMolay. It was collected from prison along with other possesions by the DeCharney family. DeMolay was tortured in the same manner as Jesus and crucified but not killed and then covered in the shroud. The image was discovered to have formed around 60 years later when it was taken out of a chest. Read the second Messiah a book all about it.
@alfaromeoash -Seriuosly. I haven't heard so much crap in so few words in a long time! I think you should really start reading books from "REAL" historians instead of FICTION from others. I can find at a minimum 4 drastic errors in your post. So basically it is garbage. That is one big problem in Shroud study: There is alot of crap written out there by authors just trying to cash in on the Shroud. These authors who permiate this false witness to the Shroud, should consider the consequences.
@alfaromeoash -I have other things in my life to do then listen to degenrates as yourself spew uneducated nonsense. I know from your comments that you haven't read a 'single' scientific document on the Shroud and it's qualities. You get your information from Fictional Books! What does that make you? An Idiot...You want the truth read 'Peer-Reviewed papers wrtitten on the Shroud. Do you evven know what Peer-reviewed papers are?...I doubt it because your an idiot. con't...
@alfaromeoash ...Here is a true fact; There is NOT ONE fact that proves the Shroud is a fake, not one. The carbon dating has been proven to be INVALID, scientifically! ...Are you in denile? I admitted nothing about painted copies you idiot, your in denile again as these copies are well known to be 'painted' and copies made of the true Shroud. The Shroud has been proven scientifically NOT TO BE A PAINTING, you are in denile again of the facts! Take your head out of your ass and do some reading.
@Flagrum3 do you understand the provenence of the shroud as I explained because to me that is the biggest clue. If you dont, who gave it to the church.The church do not deny it.I dont think it is a fake of anything, its just a sheet that was used during the torture of jaques demolay. It was washed and put away, then looked at approximatly 60 yrs later and the image was discovered burnt onto the fibres by the lactic acid from his distressed body. Nobody mentioned painting.
@alfaromeoash I think we can safely say that the "Turin Shroud" is just one of the thousands and thousands of Christian fakes and forgeries manufactured down the centuries!
It’s time for all people to seriously question Bible critics. It is time for all Bible critics to stop pointing their finger at God—to quit casting doubt on the Bible record and start learning the true knowledge that will solve all humanity’s problems. The Bible is the only ancient, well-organized and authentic framework in which to fit all the facts of history.
@MegaGayjesus ...and you have proof of this? Or are you just another one of the brainless atheist people out there that speak thru their rear orifices? I can say without doubt from your omments and your username that you are nothing but a moron, whom has spent little time researching this Shroud and it's qualities.
@Flagrum3 The forger of the Shroud of Turin was known, named and reported to the then Pope. Carbon dating has also proved the Shroud to be a fake. Christians were well known down the centuries for their brazen forgeries.
@MegaGayjesus --I think you really need to do some studying, no evidence proves the letters by d'arcis even made it to the Pope, the artist name was never mentioned, these reports have been proven false. Now for the c-14 dating, you should keep up with recent history as the c14 dating has been proven 'undetermined' plus anyone who can take a single carbon-dating against all other evidence and come to a conclusion is definitely daft. That is not the way science works...ask anyone.
@Flagrum3 Could you let us know if the foreskins (several of them) of Jesus are genuine? Are the heads (at least two of them) those that belonged to John the Baptist? As late as the seventeenth century Jesus' crown of thorns was exhibited in Paris.The water pots from the miracle at Cana were said by the Christians to be preserved...need one go on about the foolish beliefs Christians have!
@Flagrum3 The blood of Christ was exhibited in more than a hundred places, and the monks of Charroux boasted of their possession of Jesus' hair and teeth! The sponge presented to Jesus with vinegar and gall is preserved at Santa Croce, the list of Christian forgeries (including The Shroud of Turin) is seemingly endless!
@MegaGayjesus -If anyone here is a deluted idiot it is you! You point people to novels by authors to back your points? Idiot. I point you to scientific documents not books writtien by poreple with agendas. Putting the Shroud in the same catagoriy as the ohter things you mention is simply 'retarded' as it has been studied by 'scientists' for decades. It is here, it is a anomoly, and it cannot be explained thus far by science. Again do some research on the Shroud specifically then we'll talk some.
@Flagrum3 Scientific Carbon 14 Dating by three independent laboratories has shown that "The Turin Shroud" is about seven hundred years old, so is cannot be a 1st century relic! I speak about all the other Christian fakes to show just how prolific Christian forgers have been...the Shroud is just one of those forged relics.
@MegaGayjesus -I guess you don't bother reading people's posts completely. The C-14 dating has been proven to be now refutted, meaning it is worthless. Try serching 2005 Thermo chemica Acta-Ray Rogers. This is a peer-reviewed paper bascially refutting the c-14 tests and it has been independently reviewed by 2 other independant scientists. The Shroud is the most studied artefact in history, 300+ thousand hours byworld class scientists and you dare to come here and spew crap out your rear oriface.
@MegaGayjesus -It figures, you have no intention of finding out the truth, or doing any reading or research. I'll bet you dropped out of high school also. You probably get all your info from Youtube, novels and wikipedia LOL....typical of all who come on here refutting the Shroud of Turin.
@Flagrum3 I first wrote an article about the "Shroud of Turin" about forty years ago...so, once again, you are wrong about where I get my information from! This fake shroud was first exhibited in the year 1360 (Carbon 14 dating would confirm this as the date it was forged).Ask yourself this, why had nobody heard of so "wonderful" a Christian relic for thirteen centuries? Because it did not exist until it was created in 1360!
@Flagrum3 There were at least 26 "authentic" burial shrouds of Jesus scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, the Turin Shroud being just one of these fakes! They were all forged to attract pilgrims (and their money of course!)
@MegaGayjesus -You idiot, all those other burial shrouds are painted copies of the original Shroud we speak of here, which by the way has been "proven' by scientific study it is not a painting and cannot be as the image only effects the top-most fibrels of the fibers themselfs, of the linen.That's about 1/1000th of the diameter of a hair. You claim you wrote an article, yet you don't even realize these WELL KNOWN facts? You should face the truth bro, and do some real research.
@Flagrum3 The Turin fake, as I say, is just one of the many fake "Jesus" shrouds, you need to face this fact, and the fact that Carbon 14 dating proves it a fake.
@Flagrum3 Nice to see you admit to "painted copies" of so called shrouds. I am still waiting to hear why nobody had heard about the "Turin Shroud" for thirteen centuries? Please give me your answer!
@Flagrum3 The well known facts about the "Turin Shroud" is that it is a fake and a fraud. Even if Carbon 14 dating placed this shroud in the first century (which we know it does not) it still could have been manufactured by Christian forgers of that time! And we both know just how prolific and ancient Christian forgery is!
@MegaGayjesus -Secondly IF you had taken the time to research any scientific documents, they are called 'Peer-reviewed' papers, you would know that the Shroud has been determined by all scientists/experts NOT to be any type of painting whatsoever!. So please if your really serious about this Shroud, hunker down and do some reading. Start at shroud.com for most scientific documents.
@Flagrum3 Even if this Fraud of Turin were two thousand years old how would it connect with the Jesus myth? Stop being a sheepish idiot, the Shroud is just one of many Christian frauds.
@MegaGayjesus The Christians, down the centuries, have claimed they had the head of John the Baptist, milk from "The Virgin Mary" that fed the infant "Jesus" tons (literally) of wood from the "One True Cross" the steps that led up to Pontious Pilate's house and so on! No lying legend is too ridiculous for Christians to believe!
@Flagrum3 For those interested in what a deluded idiot we are dealing with here, you may like to type in on the Internet "The Christian Forgery Mill" "Lying for God" and so on. The fake shroud for instance, is so badly forged that the front image does not even match the the image on the obverse! One has to wonder if all the foreskins recorded for "Jesus" are just as genuine as the Shroud?
@Flagrum3 "The Church of Rome defended by violence the Empire she acquired by fraud" (Edward Gibbon). "Crimes of Christianity" (Frauds, Forgeries and Relics) by G.W. Foote and J.M. Wheeler are just some works the reader may like to investigate to see just how fraudulent the Christian Church has been!
jaques demolay the last templar grand master
alfaromeoash 2 months ago
@alfaromeoash -Another degenerate has posted!
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 the shroud was given to the church by the wife of the grandson of Jeffrey DeCharney who was burned at the stake along with Jaques DeMolay. It was collected from prison along with other possesions by the DeCharney family. DeMolay was tortured in the same manner as Jesus and crucified but not killed and then covered in the shroud. The image was discovered to have formed around 60 years later when it was taken out of a chest. Read the second Messiah a book all about it.
alfaromeoash 2 months ago
@alfaromeoash -Seriuosly. I haven't heard so much crap in so few words in a long time! I think you should really start reading books from "REAL" historians instead of FICTION from others. I can find at a minimum 4 drastic errors in your post. So basically it is garbage. That is one big problem in Shroud study: There is alot of crap written out there by authors just trying to cash in on the Shroud. These authors who permiate this false witness to the Shroud, should consider the consequences.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 will you point out the errors and provide qualified corrections
alfaromeoash 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 the silence speaks volumes
alfaromeoash 2 months ago
@alfaromeoash -I have other things in my life to do then listen to degenrates as yourself spew uneducated nonsense. I know from your comments that you haven't read a 'single' scientific document on the Shroud and it's qualities. You get your information from Fictional Books! What does that make you? An Idiot...You want the truth read 'Peer-Reviewed papers wrtitten on the Shroud. Do you evven know what Peer-reviewed papers are?...I doubt it because your an idiot. con't...
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@alfaromeoash ...Here is a true fact; There is NOT ONE fact that proves the Shroud is a fake, not one. The carbon dating has been proven to be INVALID, scientifically! ...Are you in denile? I admitted nothing about painted copies you idiot, your in denile again as these copies are well known to be 'painted' and copies made of the true Shroud. The Shroud has been proven scientifically NOT TO BE A PAINTING, you are in denile again of the facts! Take your head out of your ass and do some reading.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 do you understand the provenence of the shroud as I explained because to me that is the biggest clue. If you dont, who gave it to the church.The church do not deny it.I dont think it is a fake of anything, its just a sheet that was used during the torture of jaques demolay. It was washed and put away, then looked at approximatly 60 yrs later and the image was discovered burnt onto the fibres by the lactic acid from his distressed body. Nobody mentioned painting.
alfaromeoash 2 months ago
@alfaromeoash I think we can safely say that the "Turin Shroud" is just one of the thousands and thousands of Christian fakes and forgeries manufactured down the centuries!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus there could be something in what you say.
alfaromeoash 2 months ago
It’s time for all people to seriously question Bible critics. It is time for all Bible critics to stop pointing their finger at God—to quit casting doubt on the Bible record and start learning the true knowledge that will solve all humanity’s problems. The Bible is the only ancient, well-organized and authentic framework in which to fit all the facts of history.
InChristJesusOnly 2 months ago
One would have thought the Christian forger would have read The New Testament then forged the image on this ridiculous bit of rag!
MegaGayjesus 4 months ago
Just one of the many Christian forgeries!
MegaGayjesus 4 months ago
@MegaGayjesus ...and you have proof of this? Or are you just another one of the brainless atheist people out there that speak thru their rear orifices? I can say without doubt from your omments and your username that you are nothing but a moron, whom has spent little time researching this Shroud and it's qualities.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 The forger of the Shroud of Turin was known, named and reported to the then Pope. Carbon dating has also proved the Shroud to be a fake. Christians were well known down the centuries for their brazen forgeries.
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus --I think you really need to do some studying, no evidence proves the letters by d'arcis even made it to the Pope, the artist name was never mentioned, these reports have been proven false. Now for the c-14 dating, you should keep up with recent history as the c14 dating has been proven 'undetermined' plus anyone who can take a single carbon-dating against all other evidence and come to a conclusion is definitely daft. That is not the way science works...ask anyone.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 Could you let us know if the foreskins (several of them) of Jesus are genuine? Are the heads (at least two of them) those that belonged to John the Baptist? As late as the seventeenth century Jesus' crown of thorns was exhibited in Paris.The water pots from the miracle at Cana were said by the Christians to be preserved...need one go on about the foolish beliefs Christians have!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 The blood of Christ was exhibited in more than a hundred places, and the monks of Charroux boasted of their possession of Jesus' hair and teeth! The sponge presented to Jesus with vinegar and gall is preserved at Santa Croce, the list of Christian forgeries (including The Shroud of Turin) is seemingly endless!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus -If anyone here is a deluted idiot it is you! You point people to novels by authors to back your points? Idiot. I point you to scientific documents not books writtien by poreple with agendas. Putting the Shroud in the same catagoriy as the ohter things you mention is simply 'retarded' as it has been studied by 'scientists' for decades. It is here, it is a anomoly, and it cannot be explained thus far by science. Again do some research on the Shroud specifically then we'll talk some.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 Scientific Carbon 14 Dating by three independent laboratories has shown that "The Turin Shroud" is about seven hundred years old, so is cannot be a 1st century relic! I speak about all the other Christian fakes to show just how prolific Christian forgers have been...the Shroud is just one of those forged relics.
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus -I guess you don't bother reading people's posts completely. The C-14 dating has been proven to be now refutted, meaning it is worthless. Try serching 2005 Thermo chemica Acta-Ray Rogers. This is a peer-reviewed paper bascially refutting the c-14 tests and it has been independently reviewed by 2 other independant scientists. The Shroud is the most studied artefact in history, 300+ thousand hours byworld class scientists and you dare to come here and spew crap out your rear oriface.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 The Shroud is a fraud and a fake, just try to accept the truth.
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus -It figures, you have no intention of finding out the truth, or doing any reading or research. I'll bet you dropped out of high school also. You probably get all your info from Youtube, novels and wikipedia LOL....typical of all who come on here refutting the Shroud of Turin.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 I first wrote an article about the "Shroud of Turin" about forty years ago...so, once again, you are wrong about where I get my information from! This fake shroud was first exhibited in the year 1360 (Carbon 14 dating would confirm this as the date it was forged).Ask yourself this, why had nobody heard of so "wonderful" a Christian relic for thirteen centuries? Because it did not exist until it was created in 1360!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 There were at least 26 "authentic" burial shrouds of Jesus scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, the Turin Shroud being just one of these fakes! They were all forged to attract pilgrims (and their money of course!)
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus -You idiot, all those other burial shrouds are painted copies of the original Shroud we speak of here, which by the way has been "proven' by scientific study it is not a painting and cannot be as the image only effects the top-most fibrels of the fibers themselfs, of the linen.That's about 1/1000th of the diameter of a hair. You claim you wrote an article, yet you don't even realize these WELL KNOWN facts? You should face the truth bro, and do some real research.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 The Turin fake, as I say, is just one of the many fake "Jesus" shrouds, you need to face this fact, and the fact that Carbon 14 dating proves it a fake.
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 Nice to see you admit to "painted copies" of so called shrouds. I am still waiting to hear why nobody had heard about the "Turin Shroud" for thirteen centuries? Please give me your answer!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 The well known facts about the "Turin Shroud" is that it is a fake and a fraud. Even if Carbon 14 dating placed this shroud in the first century (which we know it does not) it still could have been manufactured by Christian forgers of that time! And we both know just how prolific and ancient Christian forgery is!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus -Secondly IF you had taken the time to research any scientific documents, they are called 'Peer-reviewed' papers, you would know that the Shroud has been determined by all scientists/experts NOT to be any type of painting whatsoever!. So please if your really serious about this Shroud, hunker down and do some reading. Start at shroud.com for most scientific documents.
Thanks.
Flagrum3 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 Even if this Fraud of Turin were two thousand years old how would it connect with the Jesus myth? Stop being a sheepish idiot, the Shroud is just one of many Christian frauds.
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@MegaGayjesus The Christians, down the centuries, have claimed they had the head of John the Baptist, milk from "The Virgin Mary" that fed the infant "Jesus" tons (literally) of wood from the "One True Cross" the steps that led up to Pontious Pilate's house and so on! No lying legend is too ridiculous for Christians to believe!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 For those interested in what a deluded idiot we are dealing with here, you may like to type in on the Internet "The Christian Forgery Mill" "Lying for God" and so on. The fake shroud for instance, is so badly forged that the front image does not even match the the image on the obverse! One has to wonder if all the foreskins recorded for "Jesus" are just as genuine as the Shroud?
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago
@Flagrum3 "The Church of Rome defended by violence the Empire she acquired by fraud" (Edward Gibbon). "Crimes of Christianity" (Frauds, Forgeries and Relics) by G.W. Foote and J.M. Wheeler are just some works the reader may like to investigate to see just how fraudulent the Christian Church has been!
MegaGayjesus 2 months ago