vardar macedonia says the journalist,,, before 1948 that wa steh name of fyrom.. today its legitimate name is fyrom... 2/3 ar ebulgarians 1/3 albanians.. and jipsies..USA is tryiong to have a state controledd in balcans.. like fyrom but forgets that balcans are complicated.. serbian fyromian bulgarina re similar SLAVIC languages,, not a single macedonian word
Bulgarian shithead Dragi Karov is macedonian traitor, he we sell his own daughter for money, he is noneducated, he hasnt finished even primary school, he will speak about history, i will fuck you in the ass you filfthy nazi bustard, the monuments he has in his yard are from people who in the second wolrd war cooperated with the nazi troops and killed many macedonians and partizans, they are traitors to their country and so is the bustard Karov
DO.ACENCEBT. MI PO TOZI NACIN EBES I TVOIATA MAIKA BE MOETO MOMCE NE TE LI E SRAM NIAMAS LI SRAM OT GOSPOT DA EBES SOBSTVENATA SI MAIKA I BABA. SRAMOTA E. NAISTINA.
Bulgarian friends Tito did a fine job and brainwashed a whole area to believe that are Makedonians and no Bulgarians. If you change their history books and write that the FYROMIANS are chinese in 50 years they will claim Fou Ma Tsou..
This issue will be discussed in universities in few years with subject ''Propaganda and how we can brain-wash an entire area''..
@AlexandarBG88 NE. Neka se frlat site srbomani I BUGAROFILI da ostaneme samo nasi makedonci a i T.Alexandrov neka se frli v reka toj e isto tolkav predavnik kako Kiro Glikorov i Lazar Kolishevski edinsveno makedonci kako G. Delchev J.Sandanski i M.A. Chento zasluzuvaat slava i pocit
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Sekako deka e drug jazik. Od Makedonskiot jazik e prifateno vo Angliskiot mrsul da se narekuva BUGAR, vo makedonskiot za slajm imame izraz BLGAM-kratenka od blgarija. E pa odam da izvadam nekoj Bugar i da pluknam nekoj Bugar isto ti se faka.
here is what alexandrov himself said and no fyroManian BLA BLA:
"Аз съм оръдие само на идеята за освобождението на Македония и обединението на българския народ. Това съм го доказал с целия си живот, като съм пожертвал за тази идея всичко освен живота ми, който случайно е оцелял." 3 април 1917 година
Ama Evropa i nato ke vi trebvat, 6toto kato albancite ili nqkoi drug,ve4e pisnalo mu ot vas, vi napadne pak ke treba nie da vi spasqvame,6toto nema koi drug da si mradne prasta...
I challenge every Macedonian to read an original text in "Macedonian" written before 1944, if s/he finds one, and then compare it to a text of the same time, written by an author from Central Bulgaria. And then explain to me how the two texts belong to a different language!
До кога властите и историците в Скопие ще фалшифисират бълграската история и българския характер на Македония? С такава политика не заслужават нито НАТО, нито ЕС
ni evropa mi trepa ni nato.toa se privremeni institucii ili organizacii koj vo sekoe vreme moze da se rasturat.institucii koj ja nemaat vrednostta kako zborovite MAKEDONIJA I MAKEDONCI
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(I am not Bulgarian, nor Greek, nor Tzintzar, I am pure Macedonian as were Philip and Alexander the Macedonian and Aristotle Philosopher." Gjorgi Pulevski (1838-1895))
We are not to Slavic animals!
We are not to Greece animals!
Fuck you Albanians animals Bulgarians animals!
I am original makedonski patriot!
We descendent from Heracles, like Alexander the great ! Zeus =Macedonia !! Cronus =Macedonia ! Poseidon =Macedonia ! Olympias =Macedonia!! Aeropus I =Macedonia!
which civilised european state? the greek one? where everything is demaged by the anarchos??? are you talking about this civilised european state? if so, EU - NO THANKS!
relax! you are going to have a heart attach and then the Albanians in FYROM will grow even more in numbers. hahaha!
You know, at least in greece people can demostrate freely and not get arrested for waving a bulgarian flag or erecting a monument.
In order to say no you must be invited first and this is not expected to happen in the near future, as much as your politicians are begging night and day the Greek government and the EU.
"Slavobulgarian" ?? Bulgars are slavs, so no "slavo" is nececarly infront of the word Bulgarian!!
concerning Albanians, Camerija (Epirus) is also waiting for them! Good luck for you! btw. there are over 1 million Albanians in Greece, more then in Macedonia and Montenegro together!
concerning freely demonstrate: DONT MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF! the next time i will go to Athens and wave the Macedonian and Turkish flag, let's see what will happen in this sooo democratic EU state!
As you see I agree with your remark, so I have omitted the prefix Slav.
First, you should get your facts straight because the only ones living in South epirus right now are Greeks and in north epirus in Albania there is a numerous Greek population recognised by the state. So, If someone is waiting for something that would be the Greeks.
As for the Albanians you are quoting, they are not indigenous populations like in FYROM and Montenegro but economic immigrants.
Last but not least, first try it and then see what happens.
What is for sure though, is that Greece in contrast to FYROM has no laws that impose the arrest and imprisonment of individuals or/and citizens for waving a flag or erecting a monument, and this is a fact.
This undemocratic behaviour is a direct violation of the human rights charter that all democratic and civilised countries are required to withhold.
This is a behaviour that has no place in Europe and the EU.
EPIRUS: Only because the have Greek names, that does not make them GREEKS at all. You know how my grandfather was called? R. Gregorianis, so that means that i am Greek too? BULLSHIT and you are talking about human rights even if we know that GREECE is the one who no RIGHTS no matter if human or wahterever! Anarchie! why can't my grandfather go back to greece and ask for his property or even to visit the grave of his father? what kind of Human rights are there in GR
an concerning the flag, tell me ONE country, where you can wave another flag on public places?? just ONE country! Macedonians don't bother if some put his greek or bulgarian or albanian flag in his own room, who cares, but it's true that it is forbidden to wave a foreigner flag on public places, the same way it is forbidden in Greece. actually the law has been adopt from EU!!!!!
concernin Albos in GR. wait, they r now imigrants, soon they will bi citizen!
i do not bother as how to call me, you may even call me SLAVOSLAVIAN, or BULGAROBULGARIAN, it's not my problem, is the problem of the one who refuse to recognize me!
As for your grandfather, you should ask him why exactly he left greece, under what circumstances and whether he was involved/committed any war crimes which prohibit him to enter the greek territory.
Was he by any chance part of the communist guerillas during the Greek civil war that was fighting the Greek national army and ask him was he involved in the kidnapping of more than 20.000 children in Greece which he and his comrades took them to the now ex-communist states of eastern europe?
papas do you know the meaning of the word ASSIMILATION? cuz if you would know it, you wouldn't talk such a bullshit! ...they just feel greek and speak greek because they have been assimilated years ago by greeks giving them greek names and forbidding them speaking their native language! My Grandpa fought with the GREEKS and not AGAINST them, you will find his falsificate Greek name on a Greek monoument in Northern Greece!
but you are right, if the feel Greek, they should stay greek, but tell, why do you bother, if i feel Macedonian?
concerning the flag! during the European Handball championship last week in Macedonia, you could see every kind of flags, and NOONE IN MACEDONIA DID BOTHER! this is something OHTER my dear, what would you say, if i would go to greece and put the Maceodnian flag on a community building??? this has nothing to do with human rights, but with the aplomb of every COUNTRY!
I bother when it implies territorial claims against a neighbouring country and when it directly tries to claim the history and heritage of the Ancient Macedonians that are part of the Hellenic heritage and not of the Slavs.
Why is it different to wave a flag in a stadium and not in the street or in any place?
To place a flag on any state building, property of a foreign state and without its approval, is illegal and has nothing to do with human rights. Is that what happened in FYROM?ofcoursenot
Your theory is nice you only forget one thing. The greeks in Northern Epirus which today is part of Albania were NEVER part of the greek state, so how did they become assimilated and by whom. If they were to be assimilated then it would have been by the Ottoman turks and then the albanians, but they didn't and this says alot.
What do you mean faught with the Greeks, you mean with the national army or the communist guerilas? Because on both sides it was greeks fighting but of differnt ideology.
i'm not talking about the few greek villages in Albania, but about the many Albanians in south Epirus (Camerija) ...those people has been assimilated. And that the Greeks in Albanian hasn't been assimilated by the albanian gouvernment should show you how democratic your coutry really is!!
my grandpa fought for the national army. he still got his "greek" emblem!
and boy you just don't get me. take your greek flag, and go to the street wave it as much as you want, NO Police officer will arest you for this, they would just arest you to protect you! but it's not forbidden in Macdonia to wave any kind of flags. IT IS FORBBIDEN TO PLACE IT ON PUBLIC PLACES AS IT IS THE PARLIMENT OR THE COMMUNITY, you feel me? In Switzerland, the moste democratic country ever, it works the same WAY! i live in Zurich and know what i am talking about!
In FYROM these people got arrested and sentenced to prison for erecting a bust in ones PRIVATE back yard. And people got arrested and sentenced again to prison for waving Bulgarian flags because in both cases it is considered an illegal act by law.
As I said I agree that to place another countries flag on a public building has nothing to do with human rights but this is not the case in FYROM with the ethnic Bulgarians. Also this sensitivities in Switzerland have to do with the nazi era.
i think my grandpa is a proof enough for the greek assimilation, another proofe should be the party of the Macedonians in Greece called "oyranio toxo". what's the name of the chairman of this party? i give you a hint: it's ending with "ous"!
and these people weren't arrested cuz they waved any flags or erected any bust, but because they implied teritorial and historical claims against Macedonia, you allredy mentioned it below!
and as long as they claim such things, they will be arrest also in future! they can not expect anything from us what they are not able to give by themself in Bulgaria. how comes, that the party of the Macedonians, after 9 years is still not declared in the Bulgarian parliment, even if EU allotted it?
his name is voskopoulos and he is a CIVIL SERVANT in the perfecture administration of FLORINA. The existence of this party and its free participation in the elections shows how democratic the greek state is and whether and to what extent assimilations policies were applied.
ps. his first cousin is the elected perfecter of Florina with the right wing party ND and he goes ballistic if anyone would imply that he is something else than Greek.
the fact that his cousin is the perfecter of Florina just shows and proof that there are people in Greece, which felt to the assimilation and other which fought against it and were able to protect their real identity! ...No matter if he is Servant or even a Callboy, he speaks perfect Macedonian (and Greek) and the most important he feels Macedonian the same way i do!
I stressed the public servant part to show you that the Greek state is employing and paying him even though he has anti-Greek views and tried several times to embarrass greece and even bring her in frond of the European court of human rights.
Now compare this with FYROM and tell me which one of those ethnic Bulgarians can ever dream working in FYROM's government services?
What makes you think that one cousins identity is the real and not the others? have you thought about it?
As you said speaking one language does not make you automatically part of one ethnicity.
The same applies to most of the people that spoke the slavonic dialect. There were people that spoke only that or that plus Greek and felt Greeks and vice versa. Usually the distinction was done according to which church they attended. those with Greek concious were attending the orthodox churches of the patriarch and those with a Bulgarian conscience the exarchist churches
do you know where the word "Slav" comes from? Slvas do not claim to any ethnical group as it is for arabs f.e. The word slav comes from the word "Slavoslovie" which made it possible to the people living in this region to say their prayers in their native language (Slavic)! that the most of them spoke greek is because greece is the same way, today, we all speak also english, some better (your) someone worse (me) ...
when they spoke greek or greek alongside the slavonic dialect they were part of the Ottoman empire and greece was a small and weak state, so she could not have exerted no influence on these populations in the region of macedonia to speak Greek or attend the Greek orthodox churches of the Patriarchy.
The north part of today's greece was incorporated in the Greek state just in the 20s
It is a different thing for a state to imply territorial and historical claims against another state like FYROM does against Greece and another thing being arrested and prosecuted from your own government for having and expressing different opinion of what the state is holding.
This is GROSS violation of human rights. It is undemocratic and fascist when the government can arrest you because your opinions and claims do not correspond to the perceived or liked ones of the government
dont tell me! and what about the arrested Macedonians in Bulgaria which are trying to declare their party in Bulgaria 9 years !!!!??? do human rights only count for NON-EU countries or what????? those people in Bulgaria have all BG-citezenship, and they have been arrested because they had another point of view!!!!!! the poor thing about this is, that BG is a member of EU!
listen peppas (i realized that i called you papas all the time, sorry for that:-)) ...
those BG-people in Macedonia have all rights, the ask for! you can compare it with the albanians, which have their own party, their own language, their own university, EVERYTHING, the same counts for the serbs, bosniaks etc living in Macedonia. but to get your right, you have to ASK FOR, and it's not enough, that 150 people from a village ask for minority and more rights! ....
As far as I know they are not only 150. Until now according to some estimates 180.000 citizens of FYROM have received or applied to get the Bulgarian nationality.
Even if this number is lower it is almost 10% of the countries population. I think this is quite a big number to be considered a minority and in any case human rights like the right of freedom of expression and thought is a human not a minority right and each individual is entitled to it on an INDIVIDUAL basis
true, they took BG-passport, but NOONE, and belive me, otherwise you are invited to Macedonia and hear it form the poeple there, NOONE took it because he or she feels Bulgarian! they took it to be able driving cars from Bulgaria or EU and of course to be able to move aborad without visas! an other plus is, that they may now VOTE in Bulgaria, and this is the reason, because Bulgaria don't want to declare the Macedonian party in Bulgaria, which is also Human Right, isn't it?
I thought that you may say something like that, but it doesn't diminish the fact that they sign a document declaring themselves as ethnic Bulgarians.
Now, if they consider more important for them to drive a car or to get a visa than their ethnic identity, or what it will this cause to their country then I think this should problematise you, in relation to how much they also believe their so-called 'Macedonian' identity.
you know, it's not that easy to believe in your identety and be proud of that what you are if you are isolated, you don't know how to give bred to your family the next day, or how to pay the university for your kid. FAMILIY goes over national proudness! they signt this document to save their familiy or to give their kids a better future, the thing is, what you belive in! i got swisspasport, declared also a document that i feel swiss, BUT I DONT i will never feel something other then Macedonian!
you are right but you forget that identifies change through time and this(signing documents and taking passports) is also one of these processes. I wonder what will your children feel swiss or something else in 10-20 years?
Don't forget that before one 100 years there didn't even exist this so-called "macedonian" identity it would be either bulgarian or serbian or greek or something else. What makes you think that the whole process cannot be undone?
well this is one point of view. We Macedoians have been all the time under occupants (osman, bulgars, yougoslavia) and we still kept our identity. I had two passports when i was born (greek and yougoslavian). after Yougoslavia break down, i recieved the Macedonian passport. then i went to Switzerland, where i took the Swisspassport and gave up the greek one because the allow only double citizen. so now i have two passports. you se, it's only a book, nothing behind! ...
I don't know whether this is actually correct, as during the ottoman period no liguistic or ethnic group in the region of Macedonia identified itself as Macedonias.They would identify themselves as 'Ntopios' meaning local in Greek or officially be declared as Bulgarians, Turks, Greeks, Serbians etc. The notion that there was a "Macedonian" distinct identity/nation/language was latter introduced by the creator of this state Tito and the Yugoslav communist party.
So, continuing my other post I don't think Yugoslavia was considered an occupying power since it was in Yugoslavia that this state formation emerged and nurtured. As for the Bulgarians, the Greeks in Macedonia can claim that they were occupiers since harsh policies of Bulgarisation were put forward whenever they had a rule of parts of Macedonia until the end of the WWII but the Ethnic Bulgarian population in Macedonia(which some of them now you call them Macedonians) saw them as liberators.
obvisiouly we have two points of view. in the past, there was not a policy of minority rights but one of nationality. that means, everyone having a greek passport or bg passport was automatically greek or bg. you can compare it with today's constitution of France where it is written, that every French citizen is automatically ethnic French, which is absurd since they have imigrants from Arabia. this was the reason, why "enceclopedia brittancia" wrote that majoritarian BG r living in Macedonia!
I am not talking about passports. I am going back even further during the times of the Ottoman empire where all were nationals of the Ottoman empire but even then it was officially recognised that it was a multi-ethnic empire.
That's why in the official census that the Ottomans were conducting during the Ottoman rule in the region of Macedonia the question of ethnic origin is posed and recorded. In those census' none identified as "Macedonian" but said Bulgarian, Greek, Turks, Vlachs etc.
that's true my dear, but to know why they said Bulgarian and not Macedonian, you have to go even further back then the ottoman empire. the origin of Bulgarians are the Protobulgars, which spoke a turkic diaelect and blessed their own good which they called TANGRA. the title HAN is from Mongolia the same way the names Aparuh and Kubrat are from those plces! the occupied Macedonian and took the "slavic" intus. then all became Bulgrians! you know the meaning of the word Bulgar?
Even so, it proves that at that time no such identity existed but a Bulgarian or Serbian one and that it was much latter developed along with the theory that it pre-existed.
you are wrong, it just show who got more power, and who was weaker! remeber when alex the great went till Persia. there are still people living in Persia which declare themselfs as Macedonians! ....
When you reply and declare yourself in a census it has nothing to do with power as the Ottoman rule did not penalise the declaration of any ethnic origin. So there is no reason if someone was feeling something different to declare it so.
Yes, there are still people which their origins go back to the ancient macedonians even until pakistan. But again the ancient Macedonians had nothing to do with the Slavs that came in the Balkans more than 1000 years after Alexander.
this is a circle without ending. so let's stop hear.
we were discussing all the time about human rights! the most important human right is "self decleration" ...this is the basic of every human right. so if i feel macedonian, let me feeling so! ..
in this spirit, Kala Christougenna kai kali xronia!
I agree. Every person has the right to feel and declare himself as he wishes, but don't mix this with the issue of nationality which refers to how a country and its citizens are identified in the UN, international for and on their passports for example.
Joyeux noël de ma part aussi et vœux pour une bonne nouvelle année! :)
ps. The Albanians in Tetovo are placing the Albanian flag wherever the can, even in the public and community building in the places were they have the majority but I haven't seen any similar fierce reactions against them by FYROM's government. This double standards should make you wonder.
papas, TETOVO is WILD WILD WILD WEST, it's not only about the flags there, but the whole crime in all!!! you can not compare it with other cities. as for me, i would give them TETOVO for free! they shall take it!
If you have any proof of this assimilation policy please bring it forward because even the Albanians do not go so far to claim so farfetched theories.
You really compare the greek government with the Hoja communist regime and claim that greece was and is less democratic. What can I say, these arguments just defy logic.
Well if this is the case with your grandpap then you should really dig into your heritage and your roots, you may be surprised of what you may find out.
You can wave whatever flag you like in ALL the countries of the EU and every democratic country who respects human rights.
I will give you the simplest example during the Euro football games, where you could see all sorts of people waving any flag they felt like and they did so in another country than their own.
What you say is a total lie and ridiculous, no such law exists and if so show me the text. stop swallowing whatever FYROM's media controlled propaganda feeds you. WAKE UP!
you are right it is not only because they have Greek names that they are Greeks.
It is because apart from that, that they speak greek, they keep they century old Greek traditions and customs, they live in a historically Greek land, they are officially recognised by the Albanian state even since Hotja communist era as a Greek ethnical minority but most importantly because they feel so and don't hesitate to proclaim it in any chance they can find. Just like the Bulgarians in FYROM.
as far as your grandfather's name which is Greek, I think that it should at least problematise you of what your and the rest of the people in FYROM's origin is.
Greece is part of the EU, Council of Europe, OSCE etc. anyone who believes that his human or other rights are violated by the Greek state can bring his case in frond of a Greek court and if he is not satisfied with the outcome he can then take it even to the court of human rights. This is the reality.
Hey Kokolos (means ASS in Greek)If only you were smart enough to spell VETO, then mabey you would shut up!! Your ineptitude is not serving your people any good. You really have to start reading more than just the Tito-Handbook of Good Obedient Commies!
"Ако некой каже, че не сме Македонци, ще му отрежа езика, ако каже че не сме Българи, ще му отрежа главата"- Тодор Александров:цитат в. Times - Великобритания.
Александър е бил грък! Вие сте славяни няма никакви антични "македонци". Македонци има от 80г насам когато ви ебаха сърбите и ви промиха мозъците. ПРЕДИ ТОВА БЕХТЕ БЪЛГАРИ !
It is characteristic that the VMRO heroes of Slavo"macedonians" have typical Bulgarian names (they also fought with the Bulgarian army in the Balkan war and WWI )...
Modern FYRO"M"ians all have names ending in -ski... Where were they before the 1940's? Tito changed their names to differentiate them from Bulgarians!!
Read real history retarded idiots!! Your great grandfather founght in the Balkan wars with the Bulgarians, your grandfather with Titos partizans or the greek communists (his cousin probably welcomed the Nazis ad Bulgarians as liberators). Tito changed your name to end in -ski (instead of -ov or ev) and your father was the first to be told he is was a Slavomacedonian, to you they said you are just "Macedonian and you are related to Alexander the great (ha ha)...
Please, no need to curse. Consider whetheir it is true what I said.
If you are Bulgarian, you are descendant of Asparuh, Omurtag and the other turco-mongol Bulgarans. You then, have nothing to do with Macedonia and its people who are native to that land.
I am Greek and we are the ONLY TRUE MACEDONIANS!! We have been here for thousands of years, and, unlike you we don't steal history!! Alexander was Greek and Samuil was Bulgarian!!
As the former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said: "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).
(he forgot to add... "We are basically Bulgarians!")
Your ancestors? ha ha!! what overwhelming you retard?
- Ancient Macedonians spoke and wrote in Greek (not a single archeological proof written in ANY OTHER language has everbeen found in Macedonian from antiquity.
- They had Greek names with Greek etymology, such as Alexandros, Philipos, Kassandros, Archelaos, Thessaloniki, Bucephalas etc
- They worshiped the Greek Gods of mount Olympus.
- Together with the other Greeks they shared the SAME arts, architecture, culture, traditions etc
- They participated in the, only for Greeks, Olympic Games.
- Alexander spread GREEK culture and language to the entire world he conquered, and not any other distinct culture. He would be pretty stupid if he did not spread something he didn't consider HIS.
- The historical era following the conquest of Alexander in known as HELLENISTIC... which mean GREEK!!
You don't like the quote of Gligorov... maybe the words of Alexander himself?
Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you...
(Alexander's letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian; translated by PA Brunt, "Loeb Edition" Book II 14, 4 )
these people need to be shot...just like the thousands of Macedonians were by the Bulgarians in WW2. These people do not serve to be called Macedonian. They are traitors to their homeland and to their forefathers who fought and died against the Bulgarian occupation in the Second World War
Ot site kerki na Maika Bulgaria nai- maleckata Makedonia ke da izleze nai-vurtoglava.60 god zivia po tudzite kuki, vrtia lubav so site komsii a ot gornitiot komsia i suma kopilinia narodi/makedonisti/.Sega kato vidia da nema leb so nego,starata i e kriva.,,E pa kerko 50 gd ti ne sakase da cues za mene, seda pari sakas/infraproekti i eftina struia/.Pari ke daam samo na onia unuki koi ne sa zaboravili koren ,ia sam na 1300g .A i komsiikata Grcia ne te saka vo seloto/EU/so takvo nahalstvo"
тодор александров се кажува самиот како бугарин од македонија и одговара за убиства на многу македонски револуционери од тоа време,една од сестрите на гоце делчев која во благоевград била против изградба на паметник на александров тврдела дека рацете на Т.А.се наквасени од македонска крв дека тој се борел против интересите на македонија.изјавила дека се што има ќе продаде и ќе купи динамит за да го дигне во воздух споменикот на убиецот на македонцитеСМРТ ЗА СИТЕ ТАТАРИ НЕПРИЈАТЕЛИ НА МАКЕДОНИЈА
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скендерберг не а албанец,но албанците се прост народ и повеке од пола се неписмени,во времето на скендербег немало албанци,а скендербег се борел против османлиите кои го тороризираа македонскиот народ.има млион книги и докази за тоа.
Pozdravi za bratyata Bulgari ot Makedonia, koito nadigat glavi i ne se strahuvat da se boryat za krai na manipulaciite i Anti-Bulgarskata propaganda v Macedonia!!!
Shte razrushavat pametnika idiotite ot Veles!!SEGA E MOMENTA DA REAGIRAME I DA POMOGNEME NA NASHIA BRAT DRAGI KAROV!!!!SHTE OSTAVIME LI SURBOMASNITE DA SE IZGAVRAT S BULGARSHTINATA ZA POREDEN PUT!!??VSEKI OT KADETO I KAKTO MOJE DASE VKLUCHI V BORBATA SRESHTU GENOCIDA NAD BULGARITE V FYROM!!!!!
ortis jas sum ot makedonija znam koi sa prijateli na Bolgarite.Ziv i zdrav dasi uvazavam ti mnenieto no za Skenderbei nesi prav toj e i nas geroj kato Todor
Pirinskite bulgari go mrzaat nai-mnogo prokletoit enicarski makedonizam na Cento,Blaze Konevski i site drugi bezrodnici.Pozdrav ot Mizia i Trakia za vistinskite sinovi makedonci na tretata ubava kerka Makedonia na Maika Bulgaria.
Poklon pred deloto na Todor Aleksandrov i pred hrabrosta na Karov Dragi kako i za momceto sto drzi govor od kade e toa dete treba da mu se pomogne ke go tormozat srbomanite.Nie si imame kruzok moze da mu pomogneme nesme i nie studentite bezrazlicni
Znachi na Albanskia ciganin moje pametnik v centura na Skopie a za Todor Aleksandrov Ne !!!???Makedonisti VIE STE SRAM ZA DEDITE SI, SRAM ZA VSICHKI GEROI KOITO SI DADOHA JIVOTA ZA VASHTA SVOBODA!!!!Otrekohte se ot sobstvenata si istoria i pluhte na RODA si i zaslujavate vechen POZOR!!! SMURT ZA MAKEDONIZMA I SRBSKITE PODLOGI -PRAVA ZA BULGARITE V FYROM!!
Priatele purvo moite godini ti ne gi znaesh !Vtoro ne e li sramota deto mu izdignaha pametnik na Albaneca na Bit Pazar v v Skopie i nikoi ne kaza nishto , a za pametnika na Aleksandrov koi shto e v chasten dvor vdignaha shum do boga!??I posledno dechko koi ima poveche obsho i zasluga za Makedonia -Skenderberg ili Todor Aleksandrov??! Pozdrav.
Does the FYROM-ian barbarians believe that will be in EU & NATO? I think that this kind of barbaric behavior is not acceppted in that kind of organisations.
Sede srbi oko krsta jedu govna sa tri prsta a srbomanite gi izedoja so lopata.Vaka so UDBA li ke vleguvame vo NATO i EU so vakva demokratija so zakani,lincuvanja,rusenje spomenici vo privatni dvorovi so vakvi novinari sto ja manipuliraat javnosta Latasovci i dr. so istoricari i naucnici sto tvrdat deka Aleksandrov e kontraverzna licnost.A znaat deka eden konj ,,Bukefal,,ni e tatko na nacijata ,sramota ,.
аз съм Българин имам много приятели Македонци не се подавайте на такива манипулации и да се озлобявате към българите братя македонци
kalisto41 1 week ago
SMRT ZA BUGARI CISTA MAKEDONIJA!
radisani123 3 months ago
КОЈА ИРОНИЈА !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ЌЕРКАТА НА ОВОЈ КРЕТЕН ДРАГИ СЕ ВИКА МАКЕДОНКА !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LaXCronix 4 months ago
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vardar macedonia says the journalist,,, before 1948 that wa steh name of fyrom.. today its legitimate name is fyrom... 2/3 ar ebulgarians 1/3 albanians.. and jipsies..USA is tryiong to have a state controledd in balcans.. like fyrom but forgets that balcans are complicated.. serbian fyromian bulgarina re similar SLAVIC languages,, not a single macedonian word
JIMY45GR 5 months ago
Има една приказка "Разделяй и владей". Представете си какво можем, ако тази енергия, с която се воюва тук, се впрегне да работи за общото благо.
Баламосват ни, за да си създаваме проблеми :)))
az01377 7 months ago
А ИСКАТЕ ДА ИМА ТОЛЕРАНТНОСТ ???
martinlisitsata 7 months ago
Дайте да си взимаме Македония, преди шиптарите да са я завладяли.
Ethylmorphine 10 months ago
Bulgarians gave BLOW JOBS TO NAZI GERMANS in WWII . how disgraceful?
BOGZASV8MA 1 year ago
Bulgarian shithead Dragi Karov is macedonian traitor, he we sell his own daughter for money, he is noneducated, he hasnt finished even primary school, he will speak about history, i will fuck you in the ass you filfthy nazi bustard, the monuments he has in his yard are from people who in the second wolrd war cooperated with the nazi troops and killed many macedonians and partizans, they are traitors to their country and so is the bustard Karov
pirinegejvardar 1 year ago
do.ACENCEBT.mi po tozi nacin ebes maikasi i babsi be moeto momce ne te li e sram da ebes maikasi.sramota.
mainata91 1 year ago
DO.ACENCEBT. MI PO TOZI NACIN EBES I TVOIATA MAIKA BE MOETO MOMCE NE TE LI E SRAM NIAMAS LI SRAM OT GOSPOT DA EBES SOBSTVENATA SI MAIKA I BABA. SRAMOTA E. NAISTINA.
mainata91 1 year ago
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Bulgarian friends Tito did a fine job and brainwashed a whole area to believe that are Makedonians and no Bulgarians. If you change their history books and write that the FYROMIANS are chinese in 50 years they will claim Fou Ma Tsou..
This issue will be discussed in universities in few years with subject ''Propaganda and how we can brain-wash an entire area''..
mariosathens1 1 year ago
da ti ebam i dedo ti i tebe da te ebam i site bugari i site predavnici so bugarski pasoshi
ACENCEBT 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Makedonija means makedonija.
We are Macedonians not bulgarians.
Your stupid Bulgarian propaganda finished.
We are Macedonians 100 % like Alexander the great.
All bulgarians may leave out from makedonija.
I hope Turkey destroye all bulgarians..
17gian17 2 years ago
site srbomani da se frlat u vardaro.T.Alexandrov e nas!
AlexandarBG88 2 years ago 15
Makedonija means makedonija.
We are Macedonians not bulgarians.
Your stupid Bulgarian propaganda finished.
We are Macedonians 100 % like Alexander the great.
All bulgarians may leave out from makedonija.
I hope Turkey destroye all bulgarians.
17gian17 2 years ago
@17gian17 - you are greek bastard.You don`t speek slavic language.
AlexandarBG88 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You lost your mind.
I am macedonian patriot, nothing other.
There are not more bastards than bulgarians and Greeks.
But especially the bulgarians are more stupid and bastards.
17gian17 2 years ago
Do you believe that Alexander the great was like you stupid Bulgarian face ??
17gian17 2 years ago
@17gian17 - hej bastard, don`t speek english if you are from Fyrom
AlexandarBG88 2 years ago 3
@AlexandarBG88 NE. Neka se frlat site srbomani I BUGAROFILI da ostaneme samo nasi makedonci a i T.Alexandrov neka se frli v reka toj e isto tolkav predavnik kako Kiro Glikorov i Lazar Kolishevski edinsveno makedonci kako G. Delchev J.Sandanski i M.A. Chento zasluzuvaat slava i pocit
ThePRitender 2 weeks ago
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Sekako deka e drug jazik. Od Makedonskiot jazik e prifateno vo Angliskiot mrsul da se narekuva BUGAR, vo makedonskiot za slajm imame izraz BLGAM-kratenka od blgarija. E pa odam da izvadam nekoj Bugar i da pluknam nekoj Bugar isto ti se faka.
brodograditel 2 years ago
here is what alexandrov himself said and no fyroManian BLA BLA:
"Аз съм оръдие само на идеята за освобождението на Македония и обединението на българския народ. Това съм го доказал с целия си живот, като съм пожертвал за тази идея всичко освен живота ми, който случайно е оцелял." 3 април 1917 година
McPunisher 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Makedonija means makedonija.
We are Macedonians not bulgarians.
Your stupid Bulgarian propaganda finished.
We are Macedonians 100 % like Alexander the great.
All bulgarians may leave out from makedonija.
I hope Turkey destroye all bulgarians..
17gian17 2 years ago
Македония е Българска!!!
BulGariAnHoOl 2 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
Makedonija means makedonija.
We are Macedonians not bulgarians.
Your stupid Bulgarian propaganda finished.
We are Macedonians 100 % like Alexander the great.
All bulgarians may leave out from makedonija.
I hope Turkey destroye all bulgarians.
17gian17 2 years ago
so what? They are both Bulgarians...
knsmaximo 2 years ago
emi tova e lesno makedonci ima ot 1944 godina kade predi si vidql da se spomenava makedoniq osven kato geografski region
1914levski1914 2 years ago 2
Ama Evropa i nato ke vi trebvat, 6toto kato albancite ili nqkoi drug,ve4e pisnalo mu ot vas, vi napadne pak ke treba nie da vi spasqvame,6toto nema koi drug da si mradne prasta...
TheSoftwhisper 2 years ago
I challenge every Macedonian to read an original text in "Macedonian" written before 1944, if s/he finds one, and then compare it to a text of the same time, written by an author from Central Bulgaria. And then explain to me how the two texts belong to a different language!
ScuterBG 2 years ago 4
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Makedonija makedonija makedonija makedonija makedonija makedonija makedonija makedonija
Power Power Power Power
we are not slavs not bulgarians !
We descendent from Ancients Macedonians !
Alexander the great Aristotle Phillips Olympia were not slavs
they were only Macedonians like me !
17gian17 3 years ago
Macedonia is not state but a geographical region!
strent24 2 years ago 21
До кога властите и историците в Скопие ще фалшифисират бълграската история и българския характер на Македония? С такава политика не заслужават нито НАТО, нито ЕС
strent24 3 years ago 4
ni evropa mi trepa ni nato.toa se privremeni institucii ili organizacii koj vo sekoe vreme moze da se rasturat.institucii koj ja nemaat vrednostta kako zborovite MAKEDONIJA I MAKEDONCI
marjanmacoo 2 years ago
bulgaria i gyrciq ne mogat li da nakarat tiq ot es da pratqt nqkoi i da im obqsnyt kak stoqt ne6tata za6toto te na nas nikoga nqma da povqrvat
1914levski1914 2 years ago 2
Велики Българи сте...браво !!!
sandanski8 3 years ago 6
Хахаха,ваш е защото му викат македонски,леле тея са бавно развиващи се малоумници бре.Въй много зле много!
Viketsr 3 years ago 7
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1. Diodorus Siculus 17.1.5 }
Alexanders ancestry went back to Heracles on his fathers side, while through his mother he was related to the Aeacids.
makedonski means makedonski ! We are not Boulgarians !! Fuck you Boulgarians monkey animals !
We are only only makedonski patriot !! Not Slavic stupids like you Boulgarian stupid!!
Long live Macedonia !
17gian17 3 years ago
You`re high drugged, mate!
datigotura 3 years ago
Някои викат,че македонците били чисти славяни,а българите - татари. Ей го пък тоя вика,че македонците били някви други,а ние сме били славяни.
Едно е ясно - всеки в Македония е на различно мнение. Това е едно от доказателствата за историческата пропаганда. ;))
DenitsaLin 3 years ago 5
kill the cunts
Macedonia20 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
(I am not Bulgarian, nor Greek, nor Tzintzar, I am pure Macedonian as were Philip and Alexander the Macedonian and Aristotle Philosopher." Gjorgi Pulevski (1838-1895))
We are not to Slavic animals!
We are not to Greece animals!
Fuck you Albanians animals Bulgarians animals!
I am original makedonski patriot!
We descendent from Heracles, like Alexander the great ! Zeus =Macedonia !! Cronus =Macedonia ! Poseidon =Macedonia ! Olympias =Macedonia!! Aeropus I =Macedonia!
17gian17 3 years ago
Shame on FYROM!
This Tito-communist Yugoslavia byproduct has no place amonst the other civilised european states.
VETO to FYROM for EU and NATO
peppas00 3 years ago
PERFECTLY SAID!!! peppas00
hellnbk 3 years ago
shut up and put your VETO in your ass!
which civilised european state? the greek one? where everything is demaged by the anarchos??? are you talking about this civilised european state? if so, EU - NO THANKS!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
Dear slavobulgarian,
relax! you are going to have a heart attach and then the Albanians in FYROM will grow even more in numbers. hahaha!
You know, at least in greece people can demostrate freely and not get arrested for waving a bulgarian flag or erecting a monument.
In order to say no you must be invited first and this is not expected to happen in the near future, as much as your politicians are begging night and day the Greek government and the EU.
So start getting used to it
peppas00 3 years ago
hehe,
"Slavobulgarian" ?? Bulgars are slavs, so no "slavo" is nececarly infront of the word Bulgarian!!
concerning Albanians, Camerija (Epirus) is also waiting for them! Good luck for you! btw. there are over 1 million Albanians in Greece, more then in Macedonia and Montenegro together!
concerning freely demonstrate: DONT MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF! the next time i will go to Athens and wave the Macedonian and Turkish flag, let's see what will happen in this sooo democratic EU state!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
Dear Bulgarian,
As you see I agree with your remark, so I have omitted the prefix Slav.
First, you should get your facts straight because the only ones living in South epirus right now are Greeks and in north epirus in Albania there is a numerous Greek population recognised by the state. So, If someone is waiting for something that would be the Greeks.
As for the Albanians you are quoting, they are not indigenous populations like in FYROM and Montenegro but economic immigrants.
peppas00 3 years ago
@ elvuitton,
Last but not least, first try it and then see what happens.
What is for sure though, is that Greece in contrast to FYROM has no laws that impose the arrest and imprisonment of individuals or/and citizens for waving a flag or erecting a monument, and this is a fact.
This undemocratic behaviour is a direct violation of the human rights charter that all democratic and civilised countries are required to withhold.
This is a behaviour that has no place in Europe and the EU.
peppas00 3 years ago
hahaha, you r so funny:-)
EPIRUS: Only because the have Greek names, that does not make them GREEKS at all. You know how my grandfather was called? R. Gregorianis, so that means that i am Greek too? BULLSHIT and you are talking about human rights even if we know that GREECE is the one who no RIGHTS no matter if human or wahterever! Anarchie! why can't my grandfather go back to greece and ask for his property or even to visit the grave of his father? what kind of Human rights are there in GR
elvuitton 3 years ago
an concerning the flag, tell me ONE country, where you can wave another flag on public places?? just ONE country! Macedonians don't bother if some put his greek or bulgarian or albanian flag in his own room, who cares, but it's true that it is forbidden to wave a foreigner flag on public places, the same way it is forbidden in Greece. actually the law has been adopt from EU!!!!!
concernin Albos in GR. wait, they r now imigrants, soon they will bi citizen!
elvuitton 3 years ago
and last but no least:
i do not bother as how to call me, you may even call me SLAVOSLAVIAN, or BULGAROBULGARIAN, it's not my problem, is the problem of the one who refuse to recognize me!
elvuitton 3 years ago
As for your grandfather, you should ask him why exactly he left greece, under what circumstances and whether he was involved/committed any war crimes which prohibit him to enter the greek territory.
Was he by any chance part of the communist guerillas during the Greek civil war that was fighting the Greek national army and ask him was he involved in the kidnapping of more than 20.000 children in Greece which he and his comrades took them to the now ex-communist states of eastern europe?
peppas00 3 years ago
papas do you know the meaning of the word ASSIMILATION? cuz if you would know it, you wouldn't talk such a bullshit! ...they just feel greek and speak greek because they have been assimilated years ago by greeks giving them greek names and forbidding them speaking their native language! My Grandpa fought with the GREEKS and not AGAINST them, you will find his falsificate Greek name on a Greek monoument in Northern Greece!
elvuitton 3 years ago
but you are right, if the feel Greek, they should stay greek, but tell, why do you bother, if i feel Macedonian?
concerning the flag! during the European Handball championship last week in Macedonia, you could see every kind of flags, and NOONE IN MACEDONIA DID BOTHER! this is something OHTER my dear, what would you say, if i would go to greece and put the Maceodnian flag on a community building??? this has nothing to do with human rights, but with the aplomb of every COUNTRY!
elvuitton 3 years ago
I bother when it implies territorial claims against a neighbouring country and when it directly tries to claim the history and heritage of the Ancient Macedonians that are part of the Hellenic heritage and not of the Slavs.
Why is it different to wave a flag in a stadium and not in the street or in any place?
To place a flag on any state building, property of a foreign state and without its approval, is illegal and has nothing to do with human rights. Is that what happened in FYROM?ofcoursenot
peppas00 3 years ago
Your theory is nice you only forget one thing. The greeks in Northern Epirus which today is part of Albania were NEVER part of the greek state, so how did they become assimilated and by whom. If they were to be assimilated then it would have been by the Ottoman turks and then the albanians, but they didn't and this says alot.
What do you mean faught with the Greeks, you mean with the national army or the communist guerilas? Because on both sides it was greeks fighting but of differnt ideology.
peppas00 3 years ago
i'm not talking about the few greek villages in Albania, but about the many Albanians in south Epirus (Camerija) ...those people has been assimilated. And that the Greeks in Albanian hasn't been assimilated by the albanian gouvernment should show you how democratic your coutry really is!!
my grandpa fought for the national army. he still got his "greek" emblem!
elvuitton 3 years ago
and boy you just don't get me. take your greek flag, and go to the street wave it as much as you want, NO Police officer will arest you for this, they would just arest you to protect you! but it's not forbidden in Macdonia to wave any kind of flags. IT IS FORBBIDEN TO PLACE IT ON PUBLIC PLACES AS IT IS THE PARLIMENT OR THE COMMUNITY, you feel me? In Switzerland, the moste democratic country ever, it works the same WAY! i live in Zurich and know what i am talking about!
elvuitton 3 years ago
In FYROM these people got arrested and sentenced to prison for erecting a bust in ones PRIVATE back yard. And people got arrested and sentenced again to prison for waving Bulgarian flags because in both cases it is considered an illegal act by law.
As I said I agree that to place another countries flag on a public building has nothing to do with human rights but this is not the case in FYROM with the ethnic Bulgarians. Also this sensitivities in Switzerland have to do with the nazi era.
peppas00 3 years ago
i think my grandpa is a proof enough for the greek assimilation, another proofe should be the party of the Macedonians in Greece called "oyranio toxo". what's the name of the chairman of this party? i give you a hint: it's ending with "ous"!
and these people weren't arrested cuz they waved any flags or erected any bust, but because they implied teritorial and historical claims against Macedonia, you allredy mentioned it below!
elvuitton 3 years ago
and as long as they claim such things, they will be arrest also in future! they can not expect anything from us what they are not able to give by themself in Bulgaria. how comes, that the party of the Macedonians, after 9 years is still not declared in the Bulgarian parliment, even if EU allotted it?
elvuitton 3 years ago
his name is voskopoulos and he is a CIVIL SERVANT in the perfecture administration of FLORINA. The existence of this party and its free participation in the elections shows how democratic the greek state is and whether and to what extent assimilations policies were applied.
ps. his first cousin is the elected perfecter of Florina with the right wing party ND and he goes ballistic if anyone would imply that he is something else than Greek.
peppas00 3 years ago
the fact that his cousin is the perfecter of Florina just shows and proof that there are people in Greece, which felt to the assimilation and other which fought against it and were able to protect their real identity! ...No matter if he is Servant or even a Callboy, he speaks perfect Macedonian (and Greek) and the most important he feels Macedonian the same way i do!
elvuitton 3 years ago
I stressed the public servant part to show you that the Greek state is employing and paying him even though he has anti-Greek views and tried several times to embarrass greece and even bring her in frond of the European court of human rights.
Now compare this with FYROM and tell me which one of those ethnic Bulgarians can ever dream working in FYROM's government services?
What makes you think that one cousins identity is the real and not the others? have you thought about it?
peppas00 3 years ago
As you said speaking one language does not make you automatically part of one ethnicity.
The same applies to most of the people that spoke the slavonic dialect. There were people that spoke only that or that plus Greek and felt Greeks and vice versa. Usually the distinction was done according to which church they attended. those with Greek concious were attending the orthodox churches of the patriarch and those with a Bulgarian conscience the exarchist churches
peppas00 3 years ago
do you know where the word "Slav" comes from? Slvas do not claim to any ethnical group as it is for arabs f.e. The word slav comes from the word "Slavoslovie" which made it possible to the people living in this region to say their prayers in their native language (Slavic)! that the most of them spoke greek is because greece is the same way, today, we all speak also english, some better (your) someone worse (me) ...
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
when they spoke greek or greek alongside the slavonic dialect they were part of the Ottoman empire and greece was a small and weak state, so she could not have exerted no influence on these populations in the region of macedonia to speak Greek or attend the Greek orthodox churches of the Patriarchy.
The north part of today's greece was incorporated in the Greek state just in the 20s
peppas00 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
It is a different thing for a state to imply territorial and historical claims against another state like FYROM does against Greece and another thing being arrested and prosecuted from your own government for having and expressing different opinion of what the state is holding.
This is GROSS violation of human rights. It is undemocratic and fascist when the government can arrest you because your opinions and claims do not correspond to the perceived or liked ones of the government
peppas00 3 years ago
dont tell me! and what about the arrested Macedonians in Bulgaria which are trying to declare their party in Bulgaria 9 years !!!!??? do human rights only count for NON-EU countries or what????? those people in Bulgaria have all BG-citezenship, and they have been arrested because they had another point of view!!!!!! the poor thing about this is, that BG is a member of EU!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
did you see me defending any such actions of the Bulgarian state?
Doing one wrong thing does not amend or justify doing the same wrong actions as FYROM's government has been doing, against its own citizens.
peppas00 3 years ago
listen peppas (i realized that i called you papas all the time, sorry for that:-)) ...
those BG-people in Macedonia have all rights, the ask for! you can compare it with the albanians, which have their own party, their own language, their own university, EVERYTHING, the same counts for the serbs, bosniaks etc living in Macedonia. but to get your right, you have to ASK FOR, and it's not enough, that 150 people from a village ask for minority and more rights! ....
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
As far as I know they are not only 150. Until now according to some estimates 180.000 citizens of FYROM have received or applied to get the Bulgarian nationality.
Even if this number is lower it is almost 10% of the countries population. I think this is quite a big number to be considered a minority and in any case human rights like the right of freedom of expression and thought is a human not a minority right and each individual is entitled to it on an INDIVIDUAL basis
peppas00 3 years ago
hehe,
true, they took BG-passport, but NOONE, and belive me, otherwise you are invited to Macedonia and hear it form the poeple there, NOONE took it because he or she feels Bulgarian! they took it to be able driving cars from Bulgaria or EU and of course to be able to move aborad without visas! an other plus is, that they may now VOTE in Bulgaria, and this is the reason, because Bulgaria don't want to declare the Macedonian party in Bulgaria, which is also Human Right, isn't it?
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
I thought that you may say something like that, but it doesn't diminish the fact that they sign a document declaring themselves as ethnic Bulgarians.
Now, if they consider more important for them to drive a car or to get a visa than their ethnic identity, or what it will this cause to their country then I think this should problematise you, in relation to how much they also believe their so-called 'Macedonian' identity.
peppas00 3 years ago
you know, it's not that easy to believe in your identety and be proud of that what you are if you are isolated, you don't know how to give bred to your family the next day, or how to pay the university for your kid. FAMILIY goes over national proudness! they signt this document to save their familiy or to give their kids a better future, the thing is, what you belive in! i got swisspasport, declared also a document that i feel swiss, BUT I DONT i will never feel something other then Macedonian!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
you are right but you forget that identifies change through time and this(signing documents and taking passports) is also one of these processes. I wonder what will your children feel swiss or something else in 10-20 years?
Don't forget that before one 100 years there didn't even exist this so-called "macedonian" identity it would be either bulgarian or serbian or greek or something else. What makes you think that the whole process cannot be undone?
peppas00 3 years ago
well this is one point of view. We Macedoians have been all the time under occupants (osman, bulgars, yougoslavia) and we still kept our identity. I had two passports when i was born (greek and yougoslavian). after Yougoslavia break down, i recieved the Macedonian passport. then i went to Switzerland, where i took the Swisspassport and gave up the greek one because the allow only double citizen. so now i have two passports. you se, it's only a book, nothing behind! ...
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
I don't know whether this is actually correct, as during the ottoman period no liguistic or ethnic group in the region of Macedonia identified itself as Macedonias.They would identify themselves as 'Ntopios' meaning local in Greek or officially be declared as Bulgarians, Turks, Greeks, Serbians etc. The notion that there was a "Macedonian" distinct identity/nation/language was latter introduced by the creator of this state Tito and the Yugoslav communist party.
peppas00 3 years ago
So, continuing my other post I don't think Yugoslavia was considered an occupying power since it was in Yugoslavia that this state formation emerged and nurtured. As for the Bulgarians, the Greeks in Macedonia can claim that they were occupiers since harsh policies of Bulgarisation were put forward whenever they had a rule of parts of Macedonia until the end of the WWII but the Ethnic Bulgarian population in Macedonia(which some of them now you call them Macedonians) saw them as liberators.
peppas00 3 years ago
obvisiouly we have two points of view. in the past, there was not a policy of minority rights but one of nationality. that means, everyone having a greek passport or bg passport was automatically greek or bg. you can compare it with today's constitution of France where it is written, that every French citizen is automatically ethnic French, which is absurd since they have imigrants from Arabia. this was the reason, why "enceclopedia brittancia" wrote that majoritarian BG r living in Macedonia!
elvuitton 3 years ago
I am not talking about passports. I am going back even further during the times of the Ottoman empire where all were nationals of the Ottoman empire but even then it was officially recognised that it was a multi-ethnic empire.
That's why in the official census that the Ottomans were conducting during the Ottoman rule in the region of Macedonia the question of ethnic origin is posed and recorded. In those census' none identified as "Macedonian" but said Bulgarian, Greek, Turks, Vlachs etc.
peppas00 3 years ago
that's true my dear, but to know why they said Bulgarian and not Macedonian, you have to go even further back then the ottoman empire. the origin of Bulgarians are the Protobulgars, which spoke a turkic diaelect and blessed their own good which they called TANGRA. the title HAN is from Mongolia the same way the names Aparuh and Kubrat are from those plces! the occupied Macedonian and took the "slavic" intus. then all became Bulgrians! you know the meaning of the word Bulgar?
elvuitton 3 years ago
it's a composition of the two words "Bai" and "Gar" form ancient turkish which means ancient folk!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
Even so, it proves that at that time no such identity existed but a Bulgarian or Serbian one and that it was much latter developed along with the theory that it pre-existed.
peppas00 3 years ago
you are wrong, it just show who got more power, and who was weaker! remeber when alex the great went till Persia. there are still people living in Persia which declare themselfs as Macedonians! ....
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
When you reply and declare yourself in a census it has nothing to do with power as the Ottoman rule did not penalise the declaration of any ethnic origin. So there is no reason if someone was feeling something different to declare it so.
Yes, there are still people which their origins go back to the ancient macedonians even until pakistan. But again the ancient Macedonians had nothing to do with the Slavs that came in the Balkans more than 1000 years after Alexander.
peppas00 3 years ago
this is a circle without ending. so let's stop hear.
we were discussing all the time about human rights! the most important human right is "self decleration" ...this is the basic of every human right. so if i feel macedonian, let me feeling so! ..
in this spirit, Kala Christougenna kai kali xronia!
na pas sto kalo!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton,
I agree. Every person has the right to feel and declare himself as he wishes, but don't mix this with the issue of nationality which refers to how a country and its citizens are identified in the UN, international for and on their passports for example.
Joyeux noël de ma part aussi et vœux pour une bonne nouvelle année! :)
peppas00 3 years ago
Je t'en remercie chaleureusement.
Je te remercie aussi de m'accepter tel que je suis!
p.s. milw euxepws ellinika:) ..
sto kalo file!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
den to hksera oti milas ellhnika, pardon!
kalh synexeia!
peppas00 3 years ago
lipon twra to kseris:)
kalh synexeia kai elpizo na tha Brhkame th Beltisth lush!
gia!
elvuitton 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
yap!
kalh synexeia, oso gia thn lysh diathrw tis epifylakseis mou gia to kata poso 8a yparkei kai an 8a einai h beltisth.
geia!
peppas00 3 years ago
Yes, but Persians declared Macedonians as Greeks.
MichaelPaleos 3 years ago
it is not han but khan
1914levski1914 2 years ago
who cares!
elvuitton 2 years ago
@ elvuitton
ps. The Albanians in Tetovo are placing the Albanian flag wherever the can, even in the public and community building in the places were they have the majority but I haven't seen any similar fierce reactions against them by FYROM's government. This double standards should make you wonder.
peppas00 3 years ago
papas, TETOVO is WILD WILD WILD WEST, it's not only about the flags there, but the whole crime in all!!! you can not compare it with other cities. as for me, i would give them TETOVO for free! they shall take it!
elvuitton 3 years ago
If you have any proof of this assimilation policy please bring it forward because even the Albanians do not go so far to claim so farfetched theories.
You really compare the greek government with the Hoja communist regime and claim that greece was and is less democratic. What can I say, these arguments just defy logic.
Well if this is the case with your grandpap then you should really dig into your heritage and your roots, you may be surprised of what you may find out.
peppas00 3 years ago
You can wave whatever flag you like in ALL the countries of the EU and every democratic country who respects human rights.
I will give you the simplest example during the Euro football games, where you could see all sorts of people waving any flag they felt like and they did so in another country than their own.
What you say is a total lie and ridiculous, no such law exists and if so show me the text. stop swallowing whatever FYROM's media controlled propaganda feeds you. WAKE UP!
peppas00 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
you are right it is not only because they have Greek names that they are Greeks.
It is because apart from that, that they speak greek, they keep they century old Greek traditions and customs, they live in a historically Greek land, they are officially recognised by the Albanian state even since Hotja communist era as a Greek ethnical minority but most importantly because they feel so and don't hesitate to proclaim it in any chance they can find. Just like the Bulgarians in FYROM.
peppas00 3 years ago
@ elvuitton
as far as your grandfather's name which is Greek, I think that it should at least problematise you of what your and the rest of the people in FYROM's origin is.
Greece is part of the EU, Council of Europe, OSCE etc. anyone who believes that his human or other rights are violated by the Greek state can bring his case in frond of a Greek court and if he is not satisfied with the outcome he can then take it even to the court of human rights. This is the reality.
peppas00 3 years ago
И запомнете братя САМО СЛАБИЯТ МРАЗИ !!!
JD3bolgar 3 years ago 3
you are the same race
misopogon10 3 years ago 2
ako ne be6e bulgariq,nqma6e da vi ima,bulgari ot makedonska oblast..sram,sram
primorskiq 3 years ago
majcin ti gaz, ako beshe Bugaria, nemase da se custuvavme Makedonci tuku Bugari!!! razmilzi sega!
elvuitton 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tatarski humor hihihihi
MAKEDONIJA NA MAKEDONCITE!
historyofmacedonia . org
kokolo00 3 years ago
Hey Kokolos (means ASS in Greek)If only you were smart enough to spell VETO, then mabey you would shut up!! Your ineptitude is not serving your people any good. You really have to start reading more than just the Tito-Handbook of Good Obedient Commies!
hellnbk 3 years ago
da vi se mocam na bugarite
zanikade ste
i uste nekoj ako mi ja vregal makedonija ke go ubijam
Cvetancho05 3 years ago
koj bil so goce delcev be peder eden
zanikade si
goce delcev e makedonic be kopile edno
Cvetancho05 3 years ago
Ei, golem komita si!
BGlovesMK 3 years ago 3
Shame for FYROM. The most caddish posting in You Tube.
boianboev964 3 years ago
"umrite bugari"
when this will happen there will be albanians in fyrom : ))
McPunisher 3 years ago
ТОДОР АЛЕКСАНДРОВ:
"КОЙТО КАЖЕ, ЧЕ НЕСМЕ МАКЕДОНЦИ- МУ РЕЖЕМ ЕЗИКА"
"КОЙТО КАЖЕ, ЧЕ НЕСМЕ БЪЛГАРИ - МУ РЕЖЕМ ГЛАВАТА"
McPunisher 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ни шиптари, ни срби, ни бугари, ни грци. Сите вие што работите против Македонија ќе ве нема !
Македонија на Македонците !
acohipmk 3 years ago
Ќе поставувате бисти ? Ќе веете знамиња ?
Хехе, Е НЕМА ДА МОЖЕ !!!
НЕ ВО МАКЕДОНИЈА !
acohipmk 3 years ago
CISTA MAKEDONIJA BEZ BUGARI
VlatkoBABALIT 3 years ago
Smrt za site Bugaromani
vrdsam2 3 years ago
umrite bugari
Vardarci 3 years ago
"Ако некой каже, че не сме Македонци, ще му отрежа езика, ако каже че не сме Българи, ще му отрежа главата"- Тодор Александров:цитат в. Times - Великобритания.
chrisbulgaria 3 years ago 8
alexander was greek :)
IvanSorath 3 years ago
Александър е бил грък! Вие сте славяни няма никакви антични "македонци". Македонци има от 80г насам когато ви ебаха сърбите и ви промиха мозъците. ПРЕДИ ТОВА БЕХТЕ БЪЛГАРИ !
МАКЕДОНИЯ БЕЗ БЪЛГАРИ ОГИН ДА Я ГОРИ !
patriotSL 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
a stiga bre prostak, ne te e sram sys takv ton da govorish, kradete kulturata ni i pyk i silen. Nali gledash che tova vsichko e iscenirano?
spiritxfly 3 years ago
PI LI SI HAP4ENCATA,DNES?
bulgARYAN85 3 years ago
xaxa
samo se vie tesete! MAKDEONIJA bila i ke bide! pozz do site Makedonci kaj i da ste!
Bukefal86 3 years ago
Alexander was born in the northern Greek kingdom of Macedonia in July 356 BC.
Do you hear that ,you stupid bastard??
stone3139 3 years ago
For all the International folks reading this: Please don't pay any attention to the FYROMs as they have proven themselves as complete retards.
avtomatichen 3 years ago
It is characteristic that the VMRO heroes of Slavo"macedonians" have typical Bulgarian names (they also fought with the Bulgarian army in the Balkan war and WWI )...
Tatarchev, Gruev, Delchev, Tsontcheff, Chernopeev, Nikolov, Petkov, Pop-Arsov, Dimitrov, Batandzhiev, Hadzhinikolov, Chernopeev, Sarafov, Garvanov, Protogerov etc etc
Modern FYRO"M"ians all have names ending in -ski... Where were they before the 1940's? Tito changed their names to differentiate them from Bulgarians!!
vetdino 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Bulgarian names are turkic like Asparuch, Omurtag, Batbayan, etc.
Regardless of the names, the people in the Republic of Macedonia are Macedonians, and you are not.
Educate yourself:
historyofmacedonia . org
kokolo00 3 years ago
Read real history retarded idiots!! Your great grandfather founght in the Balkan wars with the Bulgarians, your grandfather with Titos partizans or the greek communists (his cousin probably welcomed the Nazis ad Bulgarians as liberators). Tito changed your name to end in -ski (instead of -ov or ev) and your father was the first to be told he is was a Slavomacedonian, to you they said you are just "Macedonian and you are related to Alexander the great (ha ha)...
vetdino 3 years ago 4
Please, no need to curse. Consider whetheir it is true what I said.
If you are Bulgarian, you are descendant of Asparuh, Omurtag and the other turco-mongol Bulgarans. You then, have nothing to do with Macedonia and its people who are native to that land.
Sorry.
historyofmacedonia . org
kokolo00 3 years ago
I am Greek and we are the ONLY TRUE MACEDONIANS!! We have been here for thousands of years, and, unlike you we don't steal history!! Alexander was Greek and Samuil was Bulgarian!!
As the former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said: "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).
(he forgot to add... "We are basically Bulgarians!")
vetdino 3 years ago
hahahahahahahaha
There is OVERWHELMING historial proof that our ancestors -- the ancient Macedonains -- were distinct people.
The corrupt politicians like Gligorov (who was almost assasinated because of treason) can not negate the fatcs.
historyofmacedonia . org
kokolo00 3 years ago
Your ancestors? ha ha!! what overwhelming you retard?
- Ancient Macedonians spoke and wrote in Greek (not a single archeological proof written in ANY OTHER language has everbeen found in Macedonian from antiquity.
- They had Greek names with Greek etymology, such as Alexandros, Philipos, Kassandros, Archelaos, Thessaloniki, Bucephalas etc
- They worshiped the Greek Gods of mount Olympus.
- Together with the other Greeks they shared the SAME arts, architecture, culture, traditions etc
vetdino 3 years ago 2
- They participated in the, only for Greeks, Olympic Games.
- Alexander spread GREEK culture and language to the entire world he conquered, and not any other distinct culture. He would be pretty stupid if he did not spread something he didn't consider HIS.
- The historical era following the conquest of Alexander in known as HELLENISTIC... which mean GREEK!!
vetdino 3 years ago
You don't like the quote of Gligorov... maybe the words of Alexander himself?
Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you...
(Alexander's letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian; translated by PA Brunt, "Loeb Edition" Book II 14, 4 )
vetdino 3 years ago
HAHAHAHAH I LOVE IT... The bulgarians are working to close your FYROM shit up ! FUcking dirty Gypsys
Terpsimos 3 years ago
these people need to be shot...just like the thousands of Macedonians were by the Bulgarians in WW2. These people do not serve to be called Macedonian. They are traitors to their homeland and to their forefathers who fought and died against the Bulgarian occupation in the Second World War
sikmacoguy 3 years ago
All the more power to the bulgarians, at least there not trying to steal greek history, they know there own history and are proud of it.
aepa188 4 years ago 6
Ot site kerki na Maika Bulgaria nai- maleckata Makedonia ke da izleze nai-vurtoglava.60 god zivia po tudzite kuki, vrtia lubav so site komsii a ot gornitiot komsia i suma kopilinia narodi/makedonisti/.Sega kato vidia da nema leb so nego,starata i e kriva.,,E pa kerko 50 gd ti ne sakase da cues za mene, seda pari sakas/infraproekti i eftina struia/.Pari ke daam samo na onia unuki koi ne sa zaboravili koren ,ia sam na 1300g .A i komsiikata Grcia ne te saka vo seloto/EU/so takvo nahalstvo"
makmokmak 4 years ago 4
the FYROMIANS ARE BULGARIANS
StefanosK1991 4 years ago 11
This has been flagged as spam show
тодор александров се кажува самиот како бугарин од македонија и одговара за убиства на многу македонски револуционери од тоа време,една од сестрите на гоце делчев која во благоевград била против изградба на паметник на александров тврдела дека рацете на Т.А.се наквасени од македонска крв дека тој се борел против интересите на македонија.изјавила дека се што има ќе продаде и ќе купи динамит за да го дигне во воздух споменикот на убиецот на македонцитеСМРТ ЗА СИТЕ ТАТАРИ НЕПРИЈАТЕЛИ НА МАКЕДОНИЈА
InternetMR 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
скендерберг не а албанец,но албанците се прост народ и повеке од пола се неписмени,во времето на скендербег немало албанци,а скендербег се борел против османлиите кои го тороризираа македонскиот народ.има млион книги и докази за тоа.
InternetMR 4 years ago
Pozdravi za bratyata Bulgari ot Makedonia, koito nadigat glavi i ne se strahuvat da se boryat za krai na manipulaciite i Anti-Bulgarskata propaganda v Macedonia!!!
Kuraj bratya!!!
Ne otstavaite pred ni6to! Nie sme s vas!
Boi i Smurt za vsite Srbophili i Makedonisti!!!
Zhivizdrav 4 years ago 10
Браво! Поздрави за братята македонци от България!
benchy1969 4 years ago 11
Shte razrushavat pametnika idiotite ot Veles!!SEGA E MOMENTA DA REAGIRAME I DA POMOGNEME NA NASHIA BRAT DRAGI KAROV!!!!SHTE OSTAVIME LI SURBOMASNITE DA SE IZGAVRAT S BULGARSHTINATA ZA POREDEN PUT!!??VSEKI OT KADETO I KAKTO MOJE DASE VKLUCHI V BORBATA SRESHTU GENOCIDA NAD BULGARITE V FYROM!!!!!
ortis12 4 years ago 6
ortis jas sum ot makedonija znam koi sa prijateli na Bolgarite.Ziv i zdrav dasi uvazavam ti mnenieto no za Skenderbei nesi prav toj e i nas geroj kato Todor
mitreskopski 4 years ago
БРАВО!
България над всичко!
enemymind03 4 years ago 2
Pirinskite bulgari go mrzaat nai-mnogo prokletoit enicarski makedonizam na Cento,Blaze Konevski i site drugi bezrodnici.Pozdrav ot Mizia i Trakia za vistinskite sinovi makedonci na tretata ubava kerka Makedonia na Maika Bulgaria.
makmokmak 4 years ago
Македония е Българска!
Machtwille 4 years ago
Macedonia is Bulgarian!
Machtwille 4 years ago
Poklon pred deloto na Todor Aleksandrov i pred hrabrosta na Karov Dragi kako i za momceto sto drzi govor od kade e toa dete treba da mu se pomogne ke go tormozat srbomanite.Nie si imame kruzok moze da mu pomogneme nesme i nie studentite bezrazlicni
mitreskopski 4 years ago
Znachi na Albanskia ciganin moje pametnik v centura na Skopie a za Todor Aleksandrov Ne !!!???Makedonisti VIE STE SRAM ZA DEDITE SI, SRAM ZA VSICHKI GEROI KOITO SI DADOHA JIVOTA ZA VASHTA SVOBODA!!!!Otrekohte se ot sobstvenata si istoria i pluhte na RODA si i zaslujavate vechen POZOR!!! SMURT ZA MAKEDONIZMA I SRBSKITE PODLOGI -PRAVA ZA BULGARITE V FYROM!!
ortis12 4 years ago
momce vnimatelno za albancite oste te ostanaha snas ako ne razbiras uci gledaj ili si provokator
mitreskopski 4 years ago
Priatele purvo moite godini ti ne gi znaesh !Vtoro ne e li sramota deto mu izdignaha pametnik na Albaneca na Bit Pazar v v Skopie i nikoi ne kaza nishto , a za pametnika na Aleksandrov koi shto e v chasten dvor vdignaha shum do boga!??I posledno dechko koi ima poveche obsho i zasluga za Makedonia -Skenderberg ili Todor Aleksandrov??! Pozdrav.
ortis12 4 years ago
ШТО МАЈКА ВАКВА СТАТУЕТА!
bobo87mk 4 years ago
sho?
deyannyc 4 years ago
И ТАКА ТРЕБА!
bobo87mk 4 years ago
Владата ке приеме мерки за отстрануване???
А да питам вашта майка деба пичко матер сръбе мръсни защо не протестирате срещо паметникот на Албанскиот херой Скендерберг?
плус бюста е в частна собственост!!! Во тая дръжава нема гарждански равнини и правнини!!!
There is not human rights in FYROMIA
Fuck serbs in the Bulgarian land!!!
България= Мизия,Тракия,Македония!!!
patzoSF 4 years ago
Там, де Вардар през полята
мътен лей се и шуми,
де на Рила грей главата,
и при Охридски вълни.
Там, де днес е зла неволя,
де народът й мъченик,
дето плачат и се молят
се на същия език.
makmokmak 4 years ago
Does the FYROM-ian barbarians believe that will be in EU & NATO? I think that this kind of barbaric behavior is not acceppted in that kind of organisations.
bgdev 4 years ago 3
Sede srbi oko krsta jedu govna sa tri prsta a srbomanite gi izedoja so lopata.Vaka so UDBA li ke vleguvame vo NATO i EU so vakva demokratija so zakani,lincuvanja,rusenje spomenici vo privatni dvorovi so vakvi novinari sto ja manipuliraat javnosta Latasovci i dr. so istoricari i naucnici sto tvrdat deka Aleksandrov e kontraverzna licnost.A znaat deka eden konj ,,Bukefal,,ni e tatko na nacijata ,sramota ,.
mitreskopski 4 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Todor Aleksandrov is a Macedonian!
Bulgars = Tatars.
Macedonians are neither.
What's the problem?
kokolo00 4 years ago
ej srbsko kopele...begaj da pushish shiptarski kurove da te eba u vyshkata mirizliva...
Ciganin !!!