@sangolt88 funny thing this....spoke to an engineer for ford and apparantly over the next few years, car companies are going to gradually fade diesel powered cars and replace them with turboboost petrol cars. This is because they can't fix the issues with the PDF filter the diesel cars have which are compulsory for the new 2014 euro standards in cars. So there you have it....diesel isn't the future, it's TSI and turbo boost (ecoboost).
Absolut CRAP if someone would give me this engine for free i would take the money from the yunkyard for the worth of the metal .....
its CRAP !!! take a bigblock ... 7000cc
if anybody kan say me a car that produces about 500 HP @ 4700rpm like the HEMI from 1971 ... ( i know they say 426HP but in real tests all cars had about 500HP)
this pice of shit... IM GERMAN and i hate the VW engeneers for there fucking downsizing i drove a POLO 1.4 last week and its anyoingly slow like a 50cc 2strok
@epiphonesg007 Cause a 3.8 would produce his power in much higher Rpm i know a 7 liter is wrong in the modern world its has much to much fuel consumtion but the sound is more biautiful with more desplacement :)
@epiphonesg007 high rpm sound really good ! but in my erveryday life i would prefer 600 torques
a 3.8 natural aspiratet would produce maximum 380 - 400 Torques ...
and if you have 500 HP out of 3.8 L you engine wouldnt live long as a 7.0 L with 500 HP cause there is much more consumption in the engine
ok i know a turbo could make 800 toques out of a 3.8L but a turbo makes about 100.000 rpm and so on the consumtion is heavy ! and i know it cause we have a turbo GOLF TSI and the turbos
@unclewilly2 dont have much life expectancy so they will make maximum 100.000 km and then they have to be replaced !! (if you have such high power ouput !!) a Little turbo like that one from the VW T4 5 Cyl. will make 500.000 km without problems because there is not much boost pressure!! like a 500HP 3.8
F1 engines haven't been using the 1,5 litre with turbo since 1988. Also in 1987 they still just saw around 900hp in the races. In 1986 there was still no limit on the boost they could use in qualifying which is why BMW's engine had over 1400hp.
Today's 2,4 litre V8's produce around 750hp (without a turbo and a 18,000rpm rev limiter)
I never said that they had 1200hp during the race. :)
They got 1200hp out of those engines, i know that 9999% sure.(because i have seen it)
In the race they most of the time had 400-600 hp until someone presses the boost button and they get about 900-1000hp.(can't know for sure because you can't really test it)
Back in the days was badass, having thousands of horsepower and a amazing low weight.
@fenix144 Ok .. that is a different way of thinking ... i want to have power .. cause i love roaring engines .. and i have the money for it ... i drive a Audi A6 2.8.. 196Bhp.. and i drive it on 9,5 Litre / 100km LPG gas !! and it goes really good .. and it has torque and beautiful sound .. i drove a Polo 1,2 and i hated it ... i would never drive it .. im a technik freak !! and want to have a roaring and lovley sounding engine .. !! and 140 out of 1.4 is as near as riliebly as my 2.8 V6 !!
@unclewilly2 Ok man .. i bet my 2.8 LPG is more economic as you gas 1.4 ... and ok if you say that .. you have to stop to heat your house .. stop electricity consumtion and spend 2000€/ Month in growing up trees in rain forest ... i think with the car is s no problem .. !! they have to stop porducing electricity with atomic power !! man if you want to stop the global warming .. dont think just about cars!! if i come home from a 12 Hours working day i wanna sit in my V8 or my Bike and have fun !
i think like that .. you and all other green people can spend money on elektric cars and FSI and i will spend my money on Big Engines.. and we both have our Fun :D
"The engine offers a good balance of performance a fuel economy, but is proving to be too complex and too costly to produce.
According to Autocar, VW engineers are switching their focus from the twincharger engine to a more conventional turbocharged setup. With modern engine technologies the turbocharged engine should net similar performance figures but at a much lower production cost."
@billasohyeah and yet I have seen people with diesels use a supercharger to help get more air into their diesel propane mixtures. It works great, increased fuel economy with more power as a side effect.So if it can be done in a garage why not from a manufacture with a warranty?
this is an effort to make the engine as efficient as possible...
any other brand that tries to produce 170 hp from a 1.4lt engine will have turbo lag but vw shows that common sense and a extra super charger will solve that problem, while trying to be as fuel economic as possible...
@weetnietgeen - More like supercharger > forced air > engine > exhaust gases > turbo > forced air...again.
This helps increase HP(KW) out of a smaller displacement engine, while not sacrificing MPG (L/100 km) or performance.
The "supercharger compensates for the engine's small displacement by forcing air into the cylinders at low revs to bolster torque. As the tachometer climbs, an exhaust-gas-driven turbocharger further boosts the horsepower".
@weetnietgeen the supercharger is used at low rpm when the turbo hasnt built up enough boost to provide any really improvement on accelerationor economy. once the turbo is spooled up to it's optimum rpm, the turbo takes over all forced induction duties from the supercharger, since the supercharger actually creates a load on the engine. i dont think they are ever supposed to be working at the same time
@weetnietgeen it's the other way round... air enters the supercharger> more air in the cylinders and more torque (lower rpms)... at higher rpms, logiclaly more air exits the exhaust and makes the turbo spool up... so more forced air (produced from the turbo) enters the cylinders. That means more torque and more power at higher rpms... so all in all... first the supercharger for low rpms, then the turbo for high rpms... simple but very clever... (sorry for my bad english, im german ;] )
Yesterday I saw a TSI golf pulling from traffic lights. If it didn't say TSI in it's trunk I would have guessed it's a DIESEL, thick gray/black puff from the exhaust for the first 50metres??
Economy, sure! Only some little particles going to your lungs :p At least it was pretty fast..
@yascumbag are you stupid? obviously this engine is for a compact car, oara five passengers and also on European roads are more mountains than usa, volkswagen diesel motors have their trucks with incredible torque and power
@luimad your calling me stupid and i sit here unable to understand your argument?
what does this line mean "volkswagen diesel motors have their trucks with incredible torque and power"?
and i speak as someone who owns a compact volkswagen and lives in europe with some albeit small mountains! my point was what works for one place doesn't necessarily mean it will work for another
@yascumbag are you stupid? obviously this engine is for a compact car for five passengers, and also on European roads are more mountains than usa, volkswagen diesel motors have their trucks with incredible torque and power
@luimad - Wow! You called yascumbag stupid & said that EU roads are more mountainous than those in the US. Were did you source that information? Geographically, that's impossible. Nevada alone which is smaller than DE has 2,535 summits, 172 of which are above 2K ft. Among Colorado's mountains there some 500 peaks above 13,000 ft. it's also the highest state in the union requiring cars to use lower levels of octane which also get better MPGs. Do a little research on US & EU geography.
@miniboy84 There's NOT replacement for dumb fucks like you. lol. Haha, as for the oil rigs, it's due to dumb brits not giving a shit about safety, and cutting corners.
This type of engine was not invented by volkswagen, it was invented by Lancia way back in 1986 with the lancia Delta S4 which was supercharged and turbo charged. The supercharger entered early and the turbo at a certain engine speed cutted the supercharger by means of a value, and after great tune up, the car could be driven like a normal aspirated engine. BTW it developed 650 bhp.
Just wondering could this engine ever manage like 500.000 km? And it's too complicated and expensive to maintain. If you want economy and power, then why don't you just buy an TDI. What's the point to this engine?
Superb efficiency but what the dont say a word about is when you fucked the engine up or whatever Im assuming that replacing parts for this engine will cost a LOOOT!!!
i have one of these but now it has 210 hp with modified ecu. 20 Nm more torque than the gti and its 50 Kg lighter ^^ + cheaper + less fuel consumption than the gti + no ugly seats^^
Whats with your Gasoline in the States? Here in sweden you cannot buy anything lower than 95 octane, and we have 99 octane in every gas station. We do have to pay more for gas though.
Because our oil company doesn't give two shits about us, all they want is money. Nothing is about efficiency in the United States so long as greedy billionaires run this country. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, I just wish the people in charge really cared about the working class which happens to be the majority of us.
@maxou5757 Yeah I know, I think you may have missunderstood what I was getting at,
I just ment that americans get really poor octane rated petrol like you have said in your post as well and generally in the UK the highest pump petrol i have seen is 102 and thats BP ultimate and only and certain outlets, the best stuff to go for that is readily available is Tesco 99
However, you do get what you pay for at the end of the day,
I'm assuming that you were comparing the roush mustang and the BMW M3 or at least equivilant, I love American cars but the lack the sophistication of European cars though I'm mostly talking about the technology involved, I mean I do like old school cars but in this day and ages big manufactures like ford shouldn't still be making them,
Yes, the over-sized engine in what seems to be a small tank might be dieing on the market, however your view on American cars seems pretty narrow. Dodge came out with the SRT4 not to long ago, which was the fastest car you could get new for $20k. Ford's got a Twin Turbo V6 with independent cam timing. Chevy's got turbo and s/c cobalts.
Yeah, we fell behind, but I feel like we're gaining some solid ground. You might want to make clear as to what you define a 'sophisticated' car as.
@idontknow5858 also mean quality finish, I reckon a megane 250 would beat it an SRT4 in the same price range (look it up), Yes you have moved on and the like but we in europe did all that stuff about 10 years ago, it's not like money is a problem for you guys as you are supposed to be the richest most powerful country in the world and you have to copy everyone else instead of make your own stuff we have made engines without throttles that make 3.0 use fuel like a 1.6 I4 which you can't do....
Our country doesn't make cars, our businesses do. Our businesses invest in what's going to turn a profit. Big V8's in cars have only recently slipped in market in the states, that doesn't stop the media from getting wild eyed at the announcement of the 5.0 mustang coming back. Europe may have invented the car, but US sure as hell took the industry down a road that's not turning back anytime soon.
@idontknow5858 Ok sorry the businesses, but I bet the government has invested in them at some time or another, but anyway.....
new 5.0 mustang would be great, and the looks are great but then need to get rid of the leaf spring rear axel, it's things like that....
GM/Chevy did it with the camero and it's a brilliant bit of kit (fully independent suspension) the platform is used in other cars and some of them are available over here, you see they can do but they choose not to do it all the time
If it's not broke don't fix it. A lot of blue oval boys love the live axle, it's great for take off stability. The track bred kids will just have to fork over $1200 got independent suspension. That's just the trick of the trade.
@jarrus464 The Mustang has a live rear axle...not leaf springs. The corvette has a single leaf spring that runs across the axle (actually basically works as an anti roll bar) The design is infact quite clever. That's coming from me a British Automotive engineer. It reduces unsprung weight. It also works very well. The live axle on the Mustang, while most people who don't understand how it all works will look negatively on it. Actually very capable. Which is why it beats Porsches on the track.
@yonumpty Like said in a previous comment, I thought the live rear axle was great for take off, not for cornering ability, that's why fully independent McPherson struts were made, having said that though, I would prefer a mustang to a Porsche, and I would prefer a Z06 to most European cars, about the real criticism i have for American cars is that they aren't that well built and I can't buy one in right hand drive
@yonumpty you have to be joking. a mustang does not beat a Porsche on a track. that's laughable.
the other day on top gear (yes I know not exactly a scientific source) they raced a 1.8 lotus against a 5L turbo mustang, and the mustang lost simply because it couldn't go around corners
@sausagenmuff First off that wasn't a turbo mustang it was a 4.6 3v per cylinder model with a roush charger on it. Around 420hp. Topgear test track isn't really real world racing now either. It's also basically a street car. I was talking about the full on race cars which are based on the same chassis. Hence the ON TRACK comment of my post. Which if you look it up they do quite well in the various race series they enter.
@sausagenmuff Yeah I did. A different set of springs, struts and roll bars with power and brake modifications does not make it a race car. It is just a slightly modified street car. Yes it's better than standard (doesn't take much to improve that in the handling stakes). But there is so much more that can be improved upon. It is still more than comfortable enough for day to day use. You try using a race car to go to the supermarket in.
@Nissansaab - the US are lucky with their fuel, 4-5 point difference to rest of the world so 95US is around 99-100 everywhere else....... and they sell it cheap!
@jarrus464 Thats only the burn rating when compared to iso-octane and n-heptane under controlled conditions. However, science being science, there are actually numerous variables to take into consideration when testing, such as the acceptable tolerances given, additives used, heat content of the fuel etc, and so the same fuel can have two different numbers. Presumedly from identical comparisons with others, the general consensus is that the US fuel has a lower rating given than rest of world.
Why you say that? Have you had any troubles with it? In my opinion this kind of engines are very expensive to maintain if gets fucked any part such as the injection system and others...
We won't see it state-side anytime soon. It requires at least 94 (?) octane gasoline.You'd have to purchase additional octane booster which would offset the cash saved with the mileage boost.
Great concept though. I asked about this in the early 1990's. Everyone just said it wasn't possible. They just needed the right software I guess.
Just to clear things up: the air comes into the charger at first. At predesignated revs a by-pass valve is opened and the air slowly drains away and the car becomes just like a turbo car. At the higher end it is disengaged completely by an EM Clutch. This is done because the charger belt is not on the crank as such, its on a pulley system connected to the crank/pulley. It's also got a water/air cooler built into the inlet manifold which is pretty cool for a 1.4!
my cupra has an air to air intercooler running along at the bottom of the rad. the turbo only 1.4 TSI is the one with the water/air system you describe.
.... honestly.. its not that great... you can get 1000BHP out of a twin charged V8.... its not that impressive.. unless your worried about fuel.. then its pretty cool... but id still rather have a V8 with a TT setup
i suppose so... and 70defpure... the super doesn't help the turbo spool.. it just picks up the turbo lag cause the turbo needs to spool so the super gives immediate power
@eaglevision993 then engine breaks down after 10-20K what are you basing that on? vw's legendary reliability and bulletproof engines or just your ass?
Sorry misinformed, yet impolite friend: VW USED to buid bullet proof engines. Some are still but THIS engine is just plain junk. This is not my personal opinion. Ask the hundreds unhappy users with total failures within 10-20k on the german Motor-Talk forums....
The problem with this engine is not the general idea, don´t get me wrong. But VW used inferior pistons and other parts to make a few extra bucks of their way overpriced vehicles.
Point is? You will get better mileage and the fuel burns cleaner, its a win win running an engine on a higher octane fuel such as 98RON.... I dont get people who think they are saving money running a shit blend of fuel like the ethanol blended fuel.... in the end it costs just as much if not more
it is both turbo and super charger, it is possible, you have to have it computer controlled to phase out the super and in the turbo as you gettin into higher output, and back down as you get lower, the supercharger is good for low end power, and the turbo for high.
wrong, both work hand in hand with eachother. the super charger helps the tiney 1.4 spool the turbo because its ment for a 2.0. the both creat boost in high rpm. you cant stop a super charger from creating boost... it goes by rpm. FAIL
Yes you can ... this is the ingenious part of this engine. It has an electromagnetic clutch which detaches the supercharger in the lower middle range of the rev band when the turbo comes in. So you get the kick of the turbo hat high range und the punch of the super charger in the lower range without each component draging on the engine.
of course you can you obviously dnt know much about engines and how they work huh..... get educated and the maybe .... maybe... post comments with your opinion!!
This is an old idea, and thus mostly all the quirks have been worked out already over the years. I wander why it's taken major manufacturers so long to think about adopting it for production applications.
Well super chargers like the one featured are a belt driven screw type they do not use any exaust gas for force. However the turbo's turbine is spun by exaust gas.That is the limitation of a single turbo set up they need RPM's for peak power out put. This supercharger compresses air without RPM lag thus forcing more air through the engine and out the exaust which would spool the turbo faster causing it to spool faster and push the motor to it's peek RPM range faster.
A turbo is exhaust driven, SC's are belt driven. The SC drives off the belt, the turbo drives off the exhaust. It has nothing to do with it being a 4 cylinder.
well lets say it was a v engine you could pic one side to power a turbo or do both, ither way th air is forced in the engine. SC compresses air in the engine. when you have a SC and a turbo on a 4 cyl. you only have one exhaust way wich is being used by the turbo, but you also have a SC, so airflow is uneaven, and does this engine have 2 air intakes that meet up in one manifold? i just cant picture how the airflow runs in this engine.
I would imagine there's two intake plenum's. I'm not a pro with this engine. I dont' know anything about VW engines. Maybe someone who is can chime in?
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Diesel engines have glow plugs, yes, but they do not spark like spark plugs, the only get hot to prepare the diesel for combustion under extreme pressure, in most cases AT LEAST 17:1 compression ratio as compared to the 10-11:1 of gasoline engines, and its easy to tell by the sound of a diesel compared to gas, and in some cases, like the TDI jetta and golf and stuff, the black smoke created under full throttle.
I can only imagine how realiable this would be.... 1,4 Turbo on a 1400 kg car...I give it 250 000 km max. BTW: Is the Turbo still made at Turbomecanica Bucharest ?
Pice of crap this engine has a lot of carbon build up.
GTAstuntking 3 weeks ago
sounds good, but how does the engine compare with the Japanese engine designs?
davepamn 3 weeks ago
LANCIA DELTA S4 copy......
aleLESO87 3 months ago
DI and turbo is the future.
sangolt88 4 months ago
@sangolt88 funny thing this....spoke to an engineer for ford and apparantly over the next few years, car companies are going to gradually fade diesel powered cars and replace them with turboboost petrol cars. This is because they can't fix the issues with the PDF filter the diesel cars have which are compulsory for the new 2014 euro standards in cars. So there you have it....diesel isn't the future, it's TSI and turbo boost (ecoboost).
prussell890 4 months ago
you'll save alot in gas prices if you buy a VW, because it's always breaking...
kiddimeister 6 months ago
Americans look and learn.
Desmonddd2002 6 months ago
turbo and super charger and only 122bhp can anyone else see that thats really slow ?
X666X666 6 months ago
@X666X666 the 1.4 engine which produces 122bhp has only a turbocharger...
RoccoPowa 4 months ago
Absolut CRAP if someone would give me this engine for free i would take the money from the yunkyard for the worth of the metal .....
its CRAP !!! take a bigblock ... 7000cc
if anybody kan say me a car that produces about 500 HP @ 4700rpm like the HEMI from 1971 ... ( i know they say 426HP but in real tests all cars had about 500HP)
this pice of shit... IM GERMAN and i hate the VW engeneers for there fucking downsizing i drove a POLO 1.4 last week and its anyoingly slow like a 50cc 2strok
unclewilly2 8 months ago
@unclewilly2
lol typical american comment
ololoshenkilolo 7 months ago 6
@ololoshenkilolo ^^ i think a 2.0 - 4 is ok and a 2.8 - 6 enought ^^ but 1.4 ..
unclewilly2 7 months ago
@unclewilly2
You must be about 25% dumber than wet cardboard....
G40driver 6 months ago
Comment removed
TheForza1000 6 months ago
@TheForza1000 yeah I'm loving my integra.....
fenix144 3 months ago
@unclewilly2
Why would you want a bigblock of 7liters?
If a good 3.8 can make 430hp.
And a 5.0 or 4.2 can make over 500hp easy.
epiphonesg007 6 months ago
@epiphonesg007
my 1.6 makes over 400hp...
rossdagley 6 months ago
@rossdagley
i only see a 300hp peugeot... no 400hp.
And yours didn't have it in the factory, that's what i meant.
You can make 2liter engines make over 800-900hp. look at formula 1 but it's not good for daily driving.
epiphonesg007 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@epiphonesg007 w w w (dot) 106turbo (dot) com
rossdagley 6 months ago
@epiphonesg007 Cause a 3.8 would produce his power in much higher Rpm i know a 7 liter is wrong in the modern world its has much to much fuel consumtion but the sound is more biautiful with more desplacement :)
unclewilly2 6 months ago
@unclewilly2
Not neccesary.
A 3.8 can produce 430-450hp at a quite low rpm(4000-5000 RPM)
And in my opinion high RPM's sound good.
(look at F1 cars, they get 1200hp out of a 1.5l engine.)
epiphonesg007 6 months ago
@epiphonesg007 high rpm sound really good ! but in my erveryday life i would prefer 600 torques
a 3.8 natural aspiratet would produce maximum 380 - 400 Torques ...
and if you have 500 HP out of 3.8 L you engine wouldnt live long as a 7.0 L with 500 HP cause there is much more consumption in the engine
ok i know a turbo could make 800 toques out of a 3.8L but a turbo makes about 100.000 rpm and so on the consumtion is heavy ! and i know it cause we have a turbo GOLF TSI and the turbos
unclewilly2 6 months ago
@unclewilly2 dont have much life expectancy so they will make maximum 100.000 km and then they have to be replaced !! (if you have such high power ouput !!) a Little turbo like that one from the VW T4 5 Cyl. will make 500.000 km without problems because there is not much boost pressure!! like a 500HP 3.8
unclewilly2 6 months ago
@epiphonesg007
F1 engines haven't been using the 1,5 litre with turbo since 1988. Also in 1987 they still just saw around 900hp in the races. In 1986 there was still no limit on the boost they could use in qualifying which is why BMW's engine had over 1400hp.
Today's 2,4 litre V8's produce around 750hp (without a turbo and a 18,000rpm rev limiter)
McLarenMercedes 6 months ago
@McLarenMercedes
I never said that they had 1200hp during the race. :)
They got 1200hp out of those engines, i know that 9999% sure.(because i have seen it)
In the race they most of the time had 400-600 hp until someone presses the boost button and they get about 900-1000hp.(can't know for sure because you can't really test it)
Back in the days was badass, having thousands of horsepower and a amazing low weight.
But today everything has to be safe.
epiphonesg007 6 months ago
@unclewilly2 can you tell me what's the purpose of a car again? going from A to B right? not going from A to B at 200 mph...... nuff' said.
fenix144 3 months ago
@fenix144 Ok .. that is a different way of thinking ... i want to have power .. cause i love roaring engines .. and i have the money for it ... i drive a Audi A6 2.8.. 196Bhp.. and i drive it on 9,5 Litre / 100km LPG gas !! and it goes really good .. and it has torque and beautiful sound .. i drove a Polo 1,2 and i hated it ... i would never drive it .. im a technik freak !! and want to have a roaring and lovley sounding engine .. !! and 140 out of 1.4 is as near as riliebly as my 2.8 V6 !!
unclewilly2 3 months ago
@unclewilly2 with this mentality we're going straight to the shitter.
fenix144 3 months ago
@unclewilly2 Ok man .. i bet my 2.8 LPG is more economic as you gas 1.4 ... and ok if you say that .. you have to stop to heat your house .. stop electricity consumtion and spend 2000€/ Month in growing up trees in rain forest ... i think with the car is s no problem .. !! they have to stop porducing electricity with atomic power !! man if you want to stop the global warming .. dont think just about cars!! if i come home from a 12 Hours working day i wanna sit in my V8 or my Bike and have fun !
unclewilly2 3 months ago
@unclewilly2 Nuclear power is completely irrelevant to global warming.
Just sayin'...
MadPyrotechnicus 1 month ago
@MadPyrotechnicus Thats true .. just the atomic trash :)
i think like that .. you and all other green people can spend money on elektric cars and FSI and i will spend my money on Big Engines.. and we both have our Fun :D
unclewilly2 1 month ago
@unclewilly2 I will assure you that I'd be the last person on earth that thinks "green" :D
Sure, I'd like an LPG installation, but just because it costs 1/6th of what normal Excellium 95 gas costs here in Belgium. Fuck green activists!
If the petrol engine dies, and I'm talking about the Big Block V8's, Lambo V10's and Ferrari V12's, I can pronounce my life: "Utterly useless."
Petrol is the ONLY way, RIGHT ON!
MadPyrotechnicus 1 month ago
@MadPyrotechnicus (Y) :)
unclewilly2 1 month ago
@fenix144 sorry
* it is not as reliably as a 2.8 V6 with 200 Bhp !!!
unclewilly2 3 months ago
VW-Priceless!
GE24Tony 8 months ago
Good while lasted.
"The engine offers a good balance of performance a fuel economy, but is proving to be too complex and too costly to produce.
According to Autocar, VW engineers are switching their focus from the twincharger engine to a more conventional turbocharged setup. With modern engine technologies the turbocharged engine should net similar performance figures but at a much lower production cost."
cozappz 8 months ago
well that's what i've read! i cant support it...
but why would they lie? maybe is cheaper too...
though a supercharger is never as reliable has a turbo.
for example superchargers G are unreliable, and expensive to mantain so...
billasohyeah 9 months ago
hate VW. unrepairable plastic shit.
pmAhavasi 9 months ago
turbo + supercharger = happiness
vipmd 10 months ago 17
Why not use this technology on the diesels?
adamslurch71 11 months ago
@adamslurch71 the supercharger on diesel is not reliable has you might want
billasohyeah 9 months ago
@billasohyeah and yet I have seen people with diesels use a supercharger to help get more air into their diesel propane mixtures. It works great, increased fuel economy with more power as a side effect.So if it can be done in a garage why not from a manufacture with a warranty?
adamslurch71 9 months ago
this is an effort to make the engine as efficient as possible...
any other brand that tries to produce 170 hp from a 1.4lt engine will have turbo lag but vw shows that common sense and a extra super charger will solve that problem, while trying to be as fuel economic as possible...
luedriver 11 months ago
this engine suits a nonexistant market.
a little power + economy = 4cyl turbo
a little low down torque = 6 cyl or decent 4 cyl
lots of power = 6 cyl turbo or v8
lots of low down torque = v8
This has less power and less fuel economy then other options, it has no point.
nick191088 11 months ago
tsi=problems
giannised7 1 year ago
Does anyone know if its got a Solenoid outwardly opening multihole injector?
BLITZEINHEIT 1 year ago
if that is the case I withdraw my comment. still i just get tired of only seeing import engines trying something new.
sausagenmuff 1 year ago
Turbochager + supercharger + intercooler = a lot of complication.
Please, keep it simple.
brickandfanal 1 year ago
Check out this project (Golf mk5 Gt tsi) +500BHP uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/381488/2684049.aspx
godZlikeX 1 year ago
the 170hp and the 200hp have turbo and supersharger, but the 140hp and the new one 122hp have onley turbo.
sdiz86 1 year ago
at what rpm does the engine gate the supercharger and begin taking boost from the turbo? anyone know?
itTAKESaWOLF 1 year ago
@itTAKESaWOLF 1000-2000 only supercharger, 2000-3200 both super and turbo, 3200 - redline turbo only
lordoftheriffs79 1 year ago
When read true life user experiences from vw-forums it is complicated and unreliability engine
Darwinisti 1 year ago
how much hp he gets with turbo how much with super?
Mtk711s 1 year ago
TSI,THP,TCE all these small-displacement turbo engines,as well as diesels,make me rethink about buying a hybrid to move outside of cities
MDIVISIONRULES 1 year ago
hmm... so... basically the turbo is driven by the exhaust gasses,... wich in its turn drive the supercharger wich then fuels the engine ???
air->turbo->supercharger->engine??
weetnietgeen 1 year ago
@weetnietgeen - More like supercharger > forced air > engine > exhaust gases > turbo > forced air...again.
This helps increase HP(KW) out of a smaller displacement engine, while not sacrificing MPG (L/100 km) or performance.
The "supercharger compensates for the engine's small displacement by forcing air into the cylinders at low revs to bolster torque. As the tachometer climbs, an exhaust-gas-driven turbocharger further boosts the horsepower".
Google search for VW TSI or Twincharger
DTMVDUB 1 year ago
@weetnietgeen the supercharger is used at low rpm when the turbo hasnt built up enough boost to provide any really improvement on accelerationor economy. once the turbo is spooled up to it's optimum rpm, the turbo takes over all forced induction duties from the supercharger, since the supercharger actually creates a load on the engine. i dont think they are ever supposed to be working at the same time
plumbicblimp 1 year ago
@weetnietgeen it's the other way round... air enters the supercharger> more air in the cylinders and more torque (lower rpms)... at higher rpms, logiclaly more air exits the exhaust and makes the turbo spool up... so more forced air (produced from the turbo) enters the cylinders. That means more torque and more power at higher rpms... so all in all... first the supercharger for low rpms, then the turbo for high rpms... simple but very clever... (sorry for my bad english, im german ;] )
CIKO32123 1 year ago
the 2.0L fsi only gets 10.6L/100km??? my 1993 Mazda B2200 gets better than that, and it's a 17 year old truck
plumbicblimp 1 year ago
@plumbicblimp
Yesterday I saw a TSI golf pulling from traffic lights. If it didn't say TSI in it's trunk I would have guessed it's a DIESEL, thick gray/black puff from the exhaust for the first 50metres??
Economy, sure! Only some little particles going to your lungs :p At least it was pretty fast..
eamh2002 1 year ago
@plumbicblimp yep if my car used 10.6 litres to do 100km(62 miles) i would either sell it, scrap it, or torch it.
gilessmokey 1 year ago
6.2L/100km for this engine compared to 10.6L/100km of the Volkswagen 2.0L FSI??? so... are they talking city or highway?
if it is city... 6.2L/100km? they must be pretty gentle on the pedal so as to not activate the turbo
wow... i never knew the 2 L FSI consume the same fuel amount as the crappy GM 3.5L OHV in my G6 in terms of 100km in a city...
cfyung85 1 year ago
heres the thing!
there are no good cars different cars suit different areas!
in the us you can be driving through flood zones, up mountains, through desert
and usually the're heavy passengers!
giving the us a car with a small engine that produces big hp will probably break under normal usage.
a bigger engine is harder to break!
they have long open straights and a big engine just cruises down them!
europe has nippy corners so their never flat out, just want fast acceleration.
yascumbag 1 year ago
@yascumbag are you stupid? obviously this engine is for a compact car, oara five passengers and also on European roads are more mountains than usa, volkswagen diesel motors have their trucks with incredible torque and power
luimad 1 year ago
@luimad your calling me stupid and i sit here unable to understand your argument?
what does this line mean "volkswagen diesel motors have their trucks with incredible torque and power"?
and i speak as someone who owns a compact volkswagen and lives in europe with some albeit small mountains! my point was what works for one place doesn't necessarily mean it will work for another
yascumbag 1 year ago
@yascumbag are you stupid? obviously this engine is for a compact car for five passengers, and also on European roads are more mountains than usa, volkswagen diesel motors have their trucks with incredible torque and power
luimad 1 year ago
@luimad - Wow! You called yascumbag stupid & said that EU roads are more mountainous than those in the US. Were did you source that information? Geographically, that's impossible. Nevada alone which is smaller than DE has 2,535 summits, 172 of which are above 2K ft. Among Colorado's mountains there some 500 peaks above 13,000 ft. it's also the highest state in the union requiring cars to use lower levels of octane which also get better MPGs. Do a little research on US & EU geography.
DTMVDUB 1 year ago
it's also winner of the 2010 International Engine of the Year
kolbein93 1 year ago
There is no replacement for DISPLACEMENT. Fuck this little toy.
3rni3PL 1 year ago
@3rni3PL with todays fuel prices thanks to yanks not building oil platforms proparly
theres not replacement for TINY LIL ENGINES PUSHING BIG NUMBERS
miniboy84 1 year ago
@miniboy84 There's NOT replacement for dumb fucks like you. lol. Haha, as for the oil rigs, it's due to dumb brits not giving a shit about safety, and cutting corners.
3rni3PL 1 year ago
@3rni3PL lol it was an American company that built that oil rig, retard. Brits owned it.
JasonGTi1 1 year ago
@miniboy84 thanks to Yanks? So i'm assuming you're racist.
Emeianoite 1 year ago
This type of engine was not invented by volkswagen, it was invented by Lancia way back in 1986 with the lancia Delta S4 which was supercharged and turbo charged. The supercharger entered early and the turbo at a certain engine speed cutted the supercharger by means of a value, and after great tune up, the car could be driven like a normal aspirated engine. BTW it developed 650 bhp.
aircombact2001 1 year ago
10.6 L per 100 km for the 2.0 liter is bad. That's 1:9.4...
Volvoamazon62 1 year ago
Just wondering could this engine ever manage like 500.000 km? And it's too complicated and expensive to maintain. If you want economy and power, then why don't you just buy an TDI. What's the point to this engine?
daavisz 1 year ago
it has a turbo and supercharger???? WFT is the point of that
Mjesisk 1 year ago
@Mjesisk : turbos work higher end, superchargers work lower end. basically means loads of power through the full rev range :)
chansingh833 1 year ago
@chansingh833
make a 2.5liter version......MOPP SESSION
Mjesisk 1 year ago
Superb efficiency but what the dont say a word about is when you fucked the engine up or whatever Im assuming that replacing parts for this engine will cost a LOOOT!!!
Rswpotenza 1 year ago
i have one of these but now it has 210 hp with modified ecu. 20 Nm more torque than the gti and its 50 Kg lighter ^^ + cheaper + less fuel consumption than the gti + no ugly seats^^
UltraPlayerNo1 1 year ago
Whats with your Gasoline in the States? Here in sweden you cannot buy anything lower than 95 octane, and we have 99 octane in every gas station. We do have to pay more for gas though.
Nissansaab 1 year ago
Because our oil company doesn't give two shits about us, all they want is money. Nothing is about efficiency in the United States so long as greedy billionaires run this country. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, I just wish the people in charge really cared about the working class which happens to be the majority of us.
phattacorider 1 year ago
about the highest pump petrol I saw in the 3 times I've been to the states is 93 ron (they call that super ! LMAO)
my piss is 93 ron there regular is 87!?!?
no wonder american engines produces so little power and use so much fuel
jarrus464 1 year ago 6
overhere, the smallest number i see for petrol is, 95. and even my friend's toyota corolla doesnt use it. LOL
Hellvin 1 year ago
@jarrus464 No actually its different.
Both in Europe and in North America use the same octane rating.
95 in Europe is 87 in N.America
98 in Europe is 91 in N.America
104 in Europe is 94 in N.America.
maxou5757 1 year ago
@maxou5757 Yeah I know, I think you may have missunderstood what I was getting at,
I just ment that americans get really poor octane rated petrol like you have said in your post as well and generally in the UK the highest pump petrol i have seen is 102 and thats BP ultimate and only and certain outlets, the best stuff to go for that is readily available is Tesco 99
jarrus464 1 year ago
@jarrus464
so little power? comparably? or outright? Last time I checked, we got cars for under $35k pushing 425hp. 416hp over seas will cost you $58k
idontknow5858 1 year ago
@idontknow5858 Fair point, well made....
However, you do get what you pay for at the end of the day,
I'm assuming that you were comparing the roush mustang and the BMW M3 or at least equivilant, I love American cars but the lack the sophistication of European cars though I'm mostly talking about the technology involved, I mean I do like old school cars but in this day and ages big manufactures like ford shouldn't still be making them,
jarrus464 1 year ago
@jarrus464
Yes, the over-sized engine in what seems to be a small tank might be dieing on the market, however your view on American cars seems pretty narrow. Dodge came out with the SRT4 not to long ago, which was the fastest car you could get new for $20k. Ford's got a Twin Turbo V6 with independent cam timing. Chevy's got turbo and s/c cobalts.
Yeah, we fell behind, but I feel like we're gaining some solid ground. You might want to make clear as to what you define a 'sophisticated' car as.
idontknow5858 1 year ago
@idontknow5858 also mean quality finish, I reckon a megane 250 would beat it an SRT4 in the same price range (look it up), Yes you have moved on and the like but we in europe did all that stuff about 10 years ago, it's not like money is a problem for you guys as you are supposed to be the richest most powerful country in the world and you have to copy everyone else instead of make your own stuff we have made engines without throttles that make 3.0 use fuel like a 1.6 I4 which you can't do....
jarrus464 1 year ago
@jarrus464
Our country doesn't make cars, our businesses do. Our businesses invest in what's going to turn a profit. Big V8's in cars have only recently slipped in market in the states, that doesn't stop the media from getting wild eyed at the announcement of the 5.0 mustang coming back. Europe may have invented the car, but US sure as hell took the industry down a road that's not turning back anytime soon.
idontknow5858 1 year ago
@idontknow5858 Ok sorry the businesses, but I bet the government has invested in them at some time or another, but anyway.....
new 5.0 mustang would be great, and the looks are great but then need to get rid of the leaf spring rear axel, it's things like that....
GM/Chevy did it with the camero and it's a brilliant bit of kit (fully independent suspension) the platform is used in other cars and some of them are available over here, you see they can do but they choose not to do it all the time
jarrus464 1 year ago
@jarrus464
If it's not broke don't fix it. A lot of blue oval boys love the live axle, it's great for take off stability. The track bred kids will just have to fork over $1200 got independent suspension. That's just the trick of the trade.
idontknow5858 1 year ago
@jarrus464 The Mustang has a live rear axle...not leaf springs. The corvette has a single leaf spring that runs across the axle (actually basically works as an anti roll bar) The design is infact quite clever. That's coming from me a British Automotive engineer. It reduces unsprung weight. It also works very well. The live axle on the Mustang, while most people who don't understand how it all works will look negatively on it. Actually very capable. Which is why it beats Porsches on the track.
yonumpty 1 year ago
@yonumpty Like said in a previous comment, I thought the live rear axle was great for take off, not for cornering ability, that's why fully independent McPherson struts were made, having said that though, I would prefer a mustang to a Porsche, and I would prefer a Z06 to most European cars, about the real criticism i have for American cars is that they aren't that well built and I can't buy one in right hand drive
jarrus464 1 year ago
@yonumpty you have to be joking. a mustang does not beat a Porsche on a track. that's laughable.
the other day on top gear (yes I know not exactly a scientific source) they raced a 1.8 lotus against a 5L turbo mustang, and the mustang lost simply because it couldn't go around corners
sausagenmuff 1 year ago
@sausagenmuff First off that wasn't a turbo mustang it was a 4.6 3v per cylinder model with a roush charger on it. Around 420hp. Topgear test track isn't really real world racing now either. It's also basically a street car. I was talking about the full on race cars which are based on the same chassis. Hence the ON TRACK comment of my post. Which if you look it up they do quite well in the various race series they enter.
yonumpty 1 year ago
@yonumpty
did you just call a roush mustang a street car???? sure it's street legal, same as a evo or the likes, but wtf
sausagenmuff 1 year ago
@sausagenmuff Yeah I did. A different set of springs, struts and roll bars with power and brake modifications does not make it a race car. It is just a slightly modified street car. Yes it's better than standard (doesn't take much to improve that in the handling stakes). But there is so much more that can be improved upon. It is still more than comfortable enough for day to day use. You try using a race car to go to the supermarket in.
yonumpty 1 year ago
@Nissansaab - the US are lucky with their fuel, 4-5 point difference to rest of the world so 95US is around 99-100 everywhere else....... and they sell it cheap!
mk1golftwincharged 1 year ago
@mk1golftwincharged no, 95 ron is 95 ron where ever you buy it,
jarrus464 1 year ago
@jarrus464 Thats only the burn rating when compared to iso-octane and n-heptane under controlled conditions. However, science being science, there are actually numerous variables to take into consideration when testing, such as the acceptable tolerances given, additives used, heat content of the fuel etc, and so the same fuel can have two different numbers. Presumedly from identical comparisons with others, the general consensus is that the US fuel has a lower rating given than rest of world.
mk1golftwincharged 1 year ago
tsi : worst engine ever .... oil consumption higher than fuel
skatiaris21 2 years ago
Why you say that? Have you had any troubles with it? In my opinion this kind of engines are very expensive to maintain if gets fucked any part such as the injection system and others...
Rswpotenza 1 year ago
FSI or TSI?
prototurks 2 years ago
We won't see it state-side anytime soon. It requires at least 94 (?) octane gasoline.You'd have to purchase additional octane booster which would offset the cash saved with the mileage boost.
Great concept though. I asked about this in the early 1990's. Everyone just said it wasn't possible. They just needed the right software I guess.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
Just to clear things up: the air comes into the charger at first. At predesignated revs a by-pass valve is opened and the air slowly drains away and the car becomes just like a turbo car. At the higher end it is disengaged completely by an EM Clutch. This is done because the charger belt is not on the crank as such, its on a pulley system connected to the crank/pulley. It's also got a water/air cooler built into the inlet manifold which is pretty cool for a 1.4!
mk1golftwincharged 2 years ago
my cupra has an air to air intercooler running along at the bottom of the rad. the turbo only 1.4 TSI is the one with the water/air system you describe.
1390arosa 2 years ago
any comment on the 1.4 tsi 140bhp?
nizamariff 2 years ago
Comment removed
ricardoinacio 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I had the chance to test the Scirocco 1.4 tsi 160bhp and it is a hell of a machine! There another 1.4 to match the tsi!
ricardoinacio 1 year ago
.... honestly.. its not that great... you can get 1000BHP out of a twin charged V8.... its not that impressive.. unless your worried about fuel.. then its pretty cool... but id still rather have a V8 with a TT setup
xmodrock 2 years ago
The point of this engine isn't extreme power, it's efficiency and reliability.
s4m2 2 years ago 19
i suppose so... and 70defpure... the super doesn't help the turbo spool.. it just picks up the turbo lag cause the turbo needs to spool so the super gives immediate power
xmodrock 2 years ago
But the supercharger is detatched at higher ranges by the use of an electromagnetic clutch .... see my comment above.
ohmannhey 2 years ago
@s4m2
yeah and now after one year of service, the engines start breaking down after 10-20k Km, nice reliability. I keep my 5.7 L small block Chevy then....
eaglevision993 1 year ago
@eaglevision993 then engine breaks down after 10-20K what are you basing that on? vw's legendary reliability and bulletproof engines or just your ass?
sausagenmuff 1 year ago
@sausagenmuff
Sorry misinformed, yet impolite friend: VW USED to buid bullet proof engines. Some are still but THIS engine is just plain junk. This is not my personal opinion. Ask the hundreds unhappy users with total failures within 10-20k on the german Motor-Talk forums....
eaglevision993 1 year ago
@sausagenmuff
The problem with this engine is not the general idea, don´t get me wrong. But VW used inferior pistons and other parts to make a few extra bucks of their way overpriced vehicles.
eaglevision993 1 year ago
@s4m2 it is still more powerful than all of its 1.4 liter rivals, even more powerful than some 1.6t... at the same time it is efficient as you said..
lordoftheriffs79 1 year ago
But then it requires 98RON fuel...
nurbsenvi 2 years ago
Point is? You will get better mileage and the fuel burns cleaner, its a win win running an engine on a higher octane fuel such as 98RON.... I dont get people who think they are saving money running a shit blend of fuel like the ethanol blended fuel.... in the end it costs just as much if not more
tomkkkkk 2 years ago
@tomkkkkk ethanol blends are higher octane,
jarrus464 1 year ago
that is truly fucking beautiful, imagine the fuel savings if you're not heavy on the pedaal then imagine the power when you need it (8-O
Igloo5555 2 years ago
youre a dumbass, v-dubs are incredibly reliable, if you treat them the way a car meant to be, just like anyother car
x789456123 2 years ago
it is both turbo and super charger, it is possible, you have to have it computer controlled to phase out the super and in the turbo as you gettin into higher output, and back down as you get lower, the supercharger is good for low end power, and the turbo for high.
x789456123 2 years ago
wrong, both work hand in hand with eachother. the super charger helps the tiney 1.4 spool the turbo because its ment for a 2.0. the both creat boost in high rpm. you cant stop a super charger from creating boost... it goes by rpm. FAIL
70defpure 2 years ago
Yes you can ... this is the ingenious part of this engine. It has an electromagnetic clutch which detaches the supercharger in the lower middle range of the rev band when the turbo comes in. So you get the kick of the turbo hat high range und the punch of the super charger in the lower range without each component draging on the engine.
ohmannhey 2 years ago
yeah thats what i like about the VW engines, with the super for mid low range and turbo for high.
however just means few more components to break down which the mechanic will sure charge a shit load to fix
qin02 2 years ago
thats supercharged and turbo?
454sskilla 2 years ago
Comment removed
2MCHNV 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
no its just turbo you cant have both super charger and turbo charger
2MCHNV 2 years ago
of course you can you obviously dnt know much about engines and how they work huh..... get educated and the maybe .... maybe... post comments with your opinion!!
scabbyfingernails 2 years ago
Supercharger, you can see the belt spin the charger near the end.
GoodEvenings 2 years ago
It´s not the supercharger ... it´s an electromagnetic clutch which controls the supercharger ... see my comment above.
ohmannhey 2 years ago
The question was if it was a supercharger or a turbo. Im, pretty sure theirs a super charger, you just contradicted yourself.
GoodEvenings 2 years ago
There is a supercharger AND a turbo. Only the 122 BHP version has only a turbo.
ohmannhey 2 years ago 21
There is a 1.2 TSI 105 BHP turbo only, it is new on market. Really funny!
ricardoinacio 1 year ago
@ohmannhey: this engine have 2 turbo????
CheckEngine99 1 year ago
@ohmannhey 122hp version has turbo and supercharger too!
Hipis93 1 year ago
@Hipis93 bullshit!
it isn´t true! only turbo, noo supercharger!
aihaidseve 1 year ago
@aihaidseve Yes, sorry, i was wrong. 122hp has only turbo : )
Hipis93 2 months ago
This is an old idea, and thus mostly all the quirks have been worked out already over the years. I wander why it's taken major manufacturers so long to think about adopting it for production applications.
Subissan 2 years ago
Well super chargers like the one featured are a belt driven screw type they do not use any exaust gas for force. However the turbo's turbine is spun by exaust gas.That is the limitation of a single turbo set up they need RPM's for peak power out put. This supercharger compresses air without RPM lag thus forcing more air through the engine and out the exaust which would spool the turbo faster causing it to spool faster and push the motor to it's peek RPM range faster.
melaniew77msn 2 years ago
The screw type superchargers you're refering to are 'Rootes' type which were originally produced by GMC for their early diesels 4-71 and 6-71.
Not all superchargers use a Rootes type compressor, there are some that use centrifiugal compressors like those produced by Paxton.
This is a compound boost set up which isn't that new. They were using this sort of thing back 60 years ago for airplane engines.
MadMichigander1313 2 years ago
VOLKSWAGEN 4 EVER!
Gameking3000 2 years ago
Sheer brilliance.
bogus187 2 years ago
How do you calibrate a turbo and a supercharger on a single engine ??? and a 4cyl. for that matter
blueinfinity08 2 years ago
Uhhhh, what?
A turbo is exhaust driven, SC's are belt driven. The SC drives off the belt, the turbo drives off the exhaust. It has nothing to do with it being a 4 cylinder.
subireza 2 years ago
well lets say it was a v engine you could pic one side to power a turbo or do both, ither way th air is forced in the engine. SC compresses air in the engine. when you have a SC and a turbo on a 4 cyl. you only have one exhaust way wich is being used by the turbo, but you also have a SC, so airflow is uneaven, and does this engine have 2 air intakes that meet up in one manifold? i just cant picture how the airflow runs in this engine.
blueinfinity08 2 years ago
I would imagine there's two intake plenum's. I'm not a pro with this engine. I dont' know anything about VW engines. Maybe someone who is can chime in?
subireza 2 years ago
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Michael Jackson meant a lot to me also.
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Michael Jackson meant a lot to me also.
The Song Ben was sooo Good.
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Now Check out JesusChristForeverAmen blogspot & the links that scare the fuckingshit out of George W Bush & Dick Cheney to begin with & creates world peace & legalizes Pot in America at last.
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Michael Jackson meant a lot to me also.
The Song Ben was sooo Good.
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MelchezidikFisher 2 years ago
Diesel engines have glow plugs, yes, but they do not spark like spark plugs, the only get hot to prepare the diesel for combustion under extreme pressure, in most cases AT LEAST 17:1 compression ratio as compared to the 10-11:1 of gasoline engines, and its easy to tell by the sound of a diesel compared to gas, and in some cases, like the TDI jetta and golf and stuff, the black smoke created under full throttle.
LimitlessAeon619 2 years ago
where can i see the original footage of this video ??
loneshark2000 2 years ago
I can only imagine how realiable this would be.... 1,4 Turbo on a 1400 kg car...I give it 250 000 km max. BTW: Is the Turbo still made at Turbomecanica Bucharest ?
LEXI0N 2 years ago
So is it a diesel engine? How many mpg's is that in the US?
OneOfaKind949 2 years ago
It's a petrol engine, diesel don't use spark plugs.
UnreleasedWKR 2 years ago 3
He ( OneOfaKind949 ) didint ask you if it uses glow plugs or spark plugs! He asked if it was a diesel engine!
peejaa 2 years ago
moron! thats how you can tell if it's a diesel or petrol
UnreleasedWKR 2 years ago
Can you not See what ( one ) asked you? Cant you READ?
peejaa 2 years ago
your a retard
ianpaul007 2 years ago
shit i have a ms3 with mild bolt ons, i have close to 360bhp and i get 7.0-7.5L/100km. this aint so great
courtsm3 2 years ago
wow looks cool
GTRnev8820 2 years ago