And who ever said that our moral values dont evolve and change over time? I dont think morals are fixed they are subject to change just as everything else is. You only have to look at what was morally acceptable 100 years ago even compared to today. Morals are not just innate but i believe learned through experience and therefore do change.
If as Pastor Wilson argues, Morality is innate in us because God put it there, then what was the whole point in giving the Ten commandments again?. According to Pastor Wilson, morality is defined as everything God permits on a minute to minute basis, when God condoned Genocide, it quid pro quo becomes moral, same is the case with raping virgins, slavery and everything else. So if tomorrow God commands Pastor Wilson to rape a child, he would do it because it is moral cause God commanded it
Also, Pastor Wilson has said in previous debates that animals do not have souls or morality, so in that case, how does every animal in the world instinctively know not to kill their children, or kill other animals for no reason?
This show is surreal. Interesting, but surreal... Why is a singing cowboy interviewing Hitchens about morality and god, on Fox Business?... and who is the guy with the moustache in the corner and why is he there?
Wilson in my opinion is one of the weakest oppositions Hitchens has faced in his debate career. It is good for Hitch that he has this guy on his promotional tour.
By what process can God imbue morality on humans? Surely not the Bible. We are starting to see many examples of naturalistic explanations for human behavior. Including the development of religion and ritualistic behavior in early human societies.
yea i mean it's ridiculous to even suggest. did god inject a "soul" into us and if so at what point in evolution? homo habilis? australopithecus? it's just insane to promote.
Firm believers are the toughest nuts, but it's people that play what Imus suggests and Christopher declaims, namely Pascal's Wager, that are very reachable with reason. "Then you'd have to assume that you could fool God, and that God rewarded hypocrisy."
Fence sitters, if you won't jump into our yard, at least quit playing games with the kids next door!
5:50 The part of "exactly the way it would look if man rebelled against god" that's the pastor's defense for justifying all the atrocities in the old testament? However... imo, this fails tragically, it would make sense if at least, A) it would be happening today and, as far as i can tell there's ~1.5billion ppl that are rebelling against this pastor's version of god atm. Is that not enough? Wasn't 'worshiping other gods before me' enough reason to wipe out a village(or nation altogether)?
I think he should have mentioned that there were times when it was considered moral to burn women at the stake if they were good at math, because that would make them witches. Even nonsensical religious morality evolves, it's just a byproduct of the changing social zeitgeist of our times. Maybe a few centuries from now they will view some of the things we regard as normal today to be outrageously immoral.
Pastor Wilson should be very glad indeed that morality evolves along with civilization: if not, then slavery would still be legal, women would not be able to vote, and homosexuals would be put to death. If morality were fixed to the absolutist positions of judeo-christianity, then Western society would look very much like Taliban society.
Of course morality can evolve. Three hundred years ago, slavery was almost universally accepted; today, with the growing respect for individual rights, it's almost universally deplored.
On the other hand, certain prosocial behaviors have stood the test of time. These basic moral principles--respect others and treat them well; avoid killing, stealing, etc.--must already be in place in order for human societies to form in the first place.
My favorite is "militant atheism." I never quite understand what they mean by this. "Militant Islam" brings up images of suicide bombers and "militant Christianity" usually makes people thinking of abortion clinics exploding. As far as I can understand though, what these apologists mean by saying "militant atheism" is that there are four guys who are rather mean.
Or, how they love to call atheists materialists, or that we think something can come from nothing. It's the exact opposite, we say we don't know, it probably had a natural beginning. However, postulating a deity is quite literally saying it came from nowhere, nothing and created itself, in and of itself.
Also, they seem to be the ones who are more concerned with materialism and this life. That's why their steeples are so high and shiny, that's why they seek to convert so much.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Yes, God put it there, a conscience, but that conscience can be and usually is compromised. The ten commandments point out how imperfect we are and our need for a savior, which he gives freely to all that want to avail themselves of a pardon, namely redemption. I personally compromised my conscience many times before. btw, "religion" can basically be substituted with the word "ritual", the more proper term is FAITH or BELIEF, it's about a RELATIONSHIP, not ritualistic behavior.
"The ten commandments point out how imperfect we are." Im just a skeptical here why did God only give ten and not a thousand? Which lawbook stops at 10 and says thats enough?
"Do not kill", and a chapter later why does God tell them to erradicate the amalekites, midianites etc and keep their virgins to do with as they like? It the most disgusting thing Ive ever seen.
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..........that's why a relationship is imperative, but only if you want it. We are given free will as part of our soul. The soul is the life force we are given at birth - mind, will, and emotions. As to the killing of evil people, all I know is that He knows us on the inside better than we know ourselves, personally He has shown me aspects of my personality that were news to me - negative aspects, that I instantly knew were true. He chastises those He loves, and I felt very loved, made me happy.
Once again, more arrogant white noise. How could you possibly know this? What connection to the metaphysical could you possibly have garnered that I cannot?
And who ever said that our moral values dont evolve and change over time? I dont think morals are fixed they are subject to change just as everything else is. You only have to look at what was morally acceptable 100 years ago even compared to today. Morals are not just innate but i believe learned through experience and therefore do change.
Baldmother 2 years ago
Even with the same "holy" book people of faith cannot agree on what is right or wrong.
This quote comes in handy now:
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony
Hirnlego999 2 years ago
If as Pastor Wilson argues, Morality is innate in us because God put it there, then what was the whole point in giving the Ten commandments again?. According to Pastor Wilson, morality is defined as everything God permits on a minute to minute basis, when God condoned Genocide, it quid pro quo becomes moral, same is the case with raping virgins, slavery and everything else. So if tomorrow God commands Pastor Wilson to rape a child, he would do it because it is moral cause God commanded it
podimala 2 years ago
Excellent point.
Also, Pastor Wilson has said in previous debates that animals do not have souls or morality, so in that case, how does every animal in the world instinctively know not to kill their children, or kill other animals for no reason?
asheradensein 2 years ago
This show is surreal. Interesting, but surreal... Why is a singing cowboy interviewing Hitchens about morality and god, on Fox Business?... and who is the guy with the moustache in the corner and why is he there?
massiveants 2 years ago 7
its called capitalism mate
inadvertently surreal
subzi 2 years ago
Eh? Why is this on Fox Business channel?
rothery86 2 years ago
well it is Fox but these talks are way more entertaining then watching anything else fox has on daily
Duelality 2 years ago
wilson has absolutely NO clue about evolution or evolutionary psychology. all he has to do is read some books and he'll realize his own ignorance.
jloo222 2 years ago 7
I found the same thing debating with creationists on youtube
waldoistwisted 2 years ago 3
Wilson in my opinion is one of the weakest oppositions Hitchens has faced in his debate career. It is good for Hitch that he has this guy on his promotional tour.
steveoco1 2 years ago 6
So true. The same can be said about so many people. It's a shame that they're reading the wrong 'Book'.
massiveants 2 years ago
By what process can God imbue morality on humans? Surely not the Bible. We are starting to see many examples of naturalistic explanations for human behavior. Including the development of religion and ritualistic behavior in early human societies.
thundergunn 2 years ago 3
yea i mean it's ridiculous to even suggest. did god inject a "soul" into us and if so at what point in evolution? homo habilis? australopithecus? it's just insane to promote.
jloo222 2 years ago
Firm believers are the toughest nuts, but it's people that play what Imus suggests and Christopher declaims, namely Pascal's Wager, that are very reachable with reason. "Then you'd have to assume that you could fool God, and that God rewarded hypocrisy."
Fence sitters, if you won't jump into our yard, at least quit playing games with the kids next door!
gtaivpcvids 2 years ago
5:50 The part of "exactly the way it would look if man rebelled against god" that's the pastor's defense for justifying all the atrocities in the old testament? However... imo, this fails tragically, it would make sense if at least, A) it would be happening today and, as far as i can tell there's ~1.5billion ppl that are rebelling against this pastor's version of god atm. Is that not enough? Wasn't 'worshiping other gods before me' enough reason to wipe out a village(or nation altogether)?
leojboby 2 years ago
Hitchens could have done better in this one.
I think he should have mentioned that there were times when it was considered moral to burn women at the stake if they were good at math, because that would make them witches. Even nonsensical religious morality evolves, it's just a byproduct of the changing social zeitgeist of our times. Maybe a few centuries from now they will view some of the things we regard as normal today to be outrageously immoral.
daveVT18 2 years ago
Pastor Wilson should be very glad indeed that morality evolves along with civilization: if not, then slavery would still be legal, women would not be able to vote, and homosexuals would be put to death. If morality were fixed to the absolutist positions of judeo-christianity, then Western society would look very much like Taliban society.
Hurlman418 2 years ago 4
Why does Christopher Hitchens not simply state "Yes, morality goes through change."
He seems to avoid having to say this...
Gwisss 2 years ago 2
He said morality does evolve, and gave examples.
blahblahhuh1 2 years ago
didnt he say that? Yet he was astute enough to use an example not of any group of people but of religious ones.
leojboby 2 years ago
Comment removed
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago
Of course morality can evolve. Three hundred years ago, slavery was almost universally accepted; today, with the growing respect for individual rights, it's almost universally deplored.
On the other hand, certain prosocial behaviors have stood the test of time. These basic moral principles--respect others and treat them well; avoid killing, stealing, etc.--must already be in place in order for human societies to form in the first place.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago 5
You're exactly right ClumsyRoot... I just wish Hitchens had said that, because it really needs to be said.
Well done.
daveVT18 2 years ago
NAPPY HEADED HOS!!!!!
TheBeepBeepBeep 2 years ago
I never thought I'd see Hitch being interviewed by a cowboy on a business show.
quelgar 2 years ago 6
"Snakes can't talk? But we're animals, and we talk."
Genius.
anti0918 2 years ago 3
Yeah that's embarrassing.
CrystalCanyons 2 years ago
Wilson is still trying to figure out what he thinks. I wish he would start listening, more often than contributing.
It's horrible white noise.
He uses terms like "primordial GOO", and "atheistic world view", which are loaded terms. They (theist apologists) never use a term which isn't loaded.
Just like they say "THEORY", or "we're ANIMALS", or "big BANG".
You can tell they know the audience they're pandering to is very uneducated and love to chuckle at such hyperbole.
niginit 2 years ago 3
My favorite is "militant atheism." I never quite understand what they mean by this. "Militant Islam" brings up images of suicide bombers and "militant Christianity" usually makes people thinking of abortion clinics exploding. As far as I can understand though, what these apologists mean by saying "militant atheism" is that there are four guys who are rather mean.
Mike3303 2 years ago 4
Great point.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago
Yup.
Or, how they love to call atheists materialists, or that we think something can come from nothing. It's the exact opposite, we say we don't know, it probably had a natural beginning. However, postulating a deity is quite literally saying it came from nowhere, nothing and created itself, in and of itself.
Also, they seem to be the ones who are more concerned with materialism and this life. That's why their steeples are so high and shiny, that's why they seek to convert so much.
niginit 2 years ago 3
Morality is subjective.
RationalConclusion 2 years ago 2
i disagree
emuholic 2 years ago
Why do you disagree?
RationalConclusion 2 years ago
The minute I left Christianity, it IMMEDIATELY felt right.
mrstrings2006 2 years ago 18
As did I. :)
natbugification 2 years ago
"HAHAHAHAHA --that's not funny."
bigjstokes 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes, God put it there, a conscience, but that conscience can be and usually is compromised. The ten commandments point out how imperfect we are and our need for a savior, which he gives freely to all that want to avail themselves of a pardon, namely redemption. I personally compromised my conscience many times before. btw, "religion" can basically be substituted with the word "ritual", the more proper term is FAITH or BELIEF, it's about a RELATIONSHIP, not ritualistic behavior.
slboerum 2 years ago
"The ten commandments point out how imperfect we are." Im just a skeptical here why did God only give ten and not a thousand? Which lawbook stops at 10 and says thats enough?
"Do not kill", and a chapter later why does God tell them to erradicate the amalekites, midianites etc and keep their virgins to do with as they like? It the most disgusting thing Ive ever seen.
CognosSquare 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
..........that's why a relationship is imperative, but only if you want it. We are given free will as part of our soul. The soul is the life force we are given at birth - mind, will, and emotions. As to the killing of evil people, all I know is that He knows us on the inside better than we know ourselves, personally He has shown me aspects of my personality that were news to me - negative aspects, that I instantly knew were true. He chastises those He loves, and I felt very loved, made me happy.
slboerum 2 years ago
God kills only the evil children? Does he then sendsthem to an eternal fiery pit? How much babble can make up for such.
CognosSquare 2 years ago
Once again, more arrogant white noise. How could you possibly know this? What connection to the metaphysical could you possibly have garnered that I cannot?
Mike3303 2 years ago