corruption is why we win

[jerryvalez]

corruption is not why we win. the US is one of the least corrupt countries on earth, at least compared to the alternatives. i can sense you smirking, but out courts work fairly and there is rule of law. on various corruption gauges the US always scores well. one of the reasons the world flocks to T bills is that there is no political risks to their capital. the government cant just jail its opponents, like what happens all the time in Russia and China. there is some, but its comparatively low

[bumshka21]

@jerryvalez 'No political risk' just became obsolete as of the last week with the debt ceiling issue...

I mean, you can't give a study as a reference when the study is likely based in the West... its inherently biased.

In terms of corruption, your comparisons on Russia/China jailing has nothing to do with corruption. If the government is doing it then there likely aren't 'laws against it'.

111

[jerryvalez]

@bumshka21 1. The debt ceiling was raised, so the creditors will be paid. Also, political risk to capital is more broad then sovereign debt repayment, ie. risk of nationalization of industries, risk of bribes being demanded to do business ect. All of these risks are low here.

2. Transparency Int. has chapters in over 70 countries

3. Not true. The letter of the law in Russia says anyone can support anyone politically, but see Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Tatics like this are used in China as well

[bumshka21]

@jerryvalez

For 2. Ah. A specific study. Thank you. Its a moot point.

For 3. Hehe. The rule of law and Russia... Too easy of a joke.

For 1. You're confused. Debt ceiling being raised is one thing. I meant S&P's downgrading of the rating. Monday confirmed the opposite to your suggestion: many are unsure the US can balance its books.

As for corruption et US, I'd say the absence of state funding in campaigns means doing the right thing gets relegated to donations & looking to Nov..

[jerryvalez]

@bumshka21 This will be my last post on this, because we could go back and forth forever, but I believe the point of my original post, that not only is corruption not why we win but the US is COMPARATIVELY one of the least corrupt countries, is still correct. Any "winning" done by America is because it has smart, creative, hardworking people, not because of government corruption. Though if you believe the American, or "Western", way of life is itself corrupt, than yes, the US is corrupt

[Faralakaboom]

he sure is an ugly little fcker!

[Magnolia296]

I like this film - it shows sad and bitter truth in our political life. George Clooney always showed one and the same typical acting but Finally he looked great and not monotonous. But I still think that he didn't deserve the Oscar - just because he showed nice serious acting (for the first time by the way) doesn't mean that they should give him the Oscar. Academics and critics are as corrupted as politicians. Sad, very sad but I still love this film very much

[AHafan1]

It's great that he yells it in the middle of all these people... it symbolises that what he's saying isn't a secret - everyone knows it, even if they aren't bold enough to say or admit it

[07751434]

Corrupshon is wah we weyn!

[NYerintransit]

Simple-minded stuff from the left.

[streetswell]

@NYerintransit Yes, yes, all us liberals hate you and want to destroy your way of life. We're just too stupid to understand that everybody wins when corporate America does whatever it wants. Shame on us.

[kubaniski]

@streetswell ther problem is not that of corruption but leftist ways of dealing with it, the left wants to fight corruption by passing more legislation which ends up just giving corporations more ways of working the system.

[kubaniski]

@streetswell Widespread corruption is the product of governments regulating things that really shouldn't, it makes people lose respect for the laws and makes people less critical of the corrupt. If governments only regulated the few important and truly dangerous things, then the laws would be respected by the law abiding public and what little corruption is left would be frowned upon.

[proadmin1]

@kubaniski That's a nice ideal but it's not the case. Wall Street's fractional trading was so complex it couldn't be regulated, and when it blew up, the US taxpayer ended up having to put vast sums in to keep the capital markets themselves from seizing. As many of the participants themselves called it - a house of cards - there is absolutely nothing in the free market to prevent such problems from recurring, so while I agree markets should be as free as possible, they should not be absolutely so

[kubaniski]

@proadmin1 The regulations that were already in place is what caused the recession. Businessmen an investors are smart and greedy, so why do you think that they would all make the same stupid mistakes if they didn't know that the government would absorb their losses for them. There was no need for pumping money into the system. When a company goes under because of bad management or overextension, management loses its job, and its assets are bought by other smaller and companies.

[proadmin1]

@kubaniski Moreover there is a flaw in your logic regarding the upper tier of many of the corporations involved, in the defacto winner take all environment, the upper tier is in fact insulated from their bad decision-making by unbalanced income stratification, so making a multi-billion dollar mistake is alot less painful when you have 20 or 30 million per year to ameliorate any effect it might possibly have on your situation.

[kubaniski]

@proadmin1 The thing is that when a CEO drives a company into the ground yea he may have a billion saved u, however the company still goes under and he no longer makes that much. Big businesses almost always get to a point where they are too big to manage properly and fail. This failure allows smaller newer and more innovative companies to take their place (it's called creative destruction). If we keep pumping money into these overgrown failures all we will get is stable stagnation.

[proadmin1]

@kubaniski I don't disagree that the theoretical case is true, but there are also two flaws in the statement, the first presumes CEO's or other upper tier risk managers are acting the best interests of the health of the firm, as the collapse of Lehman shows, short term profits, not risk drove the decisionmaking - as one such participant is quoted as saying "this is a trillion dollar game of musical chairs" and elsewhere "let's hope we're retired when this house of cards collapses".

[proadmin1]

@kubaniski Secondly, the notion of Schumpeter creative destruction did not take into account scale, and we as a society / economic model have no good mechanisms for handling this intrinsic property of capitalist / largely free markets. But societies as separated from markets can be vastly damaged by not buffering against market failures. So - should BOA have gone belly up in Sept, 2008? Maybe, but did /does the FDIC have the reserves to handle the 35 million account-holders? Clearly not.

[Mike32587]

@proadmin1 You have some very thought provoking comments here. In my opinion, the ultimate blame lies with those in Congress who shredded regulation of the derivative market during the 90's and created a modern tulip mania. Unfettered capitalism is driven by a winner take all mentality. It's the role of government to make sure the music doesn't play until there is only one chair left to use that musical chairs metaphor. Oh i can already hear the pundits yelling "Socialist!"

[HomleandSecurity]

@Mike32587 Go back to Russia

[proadmin1]

@proadmin1 I would really like to say that's the case, but so far the only governments that have chosen to let the free markets "evolve" as you suggest / along the lines of a "free" market have collapsed pretty harshly. It's a damned if you do , damned if you don't problem. So until someone figures how to moderate / prevent scale / monopolist tendencies in the marketplace we're screwed. Suffice it to say, I believe practically, the free market is a matter of degree rather than an absolute.

[kuvtsisnyiamkoj]

Corruption is why America looks like a great nation on the outside.

If you examine closer, corruption is why lawyers are making so much money.

People need to have morality and have good integrity. You need to pay for what you damage.

Here is a real example.

Don't go damaging somebody's car without leaving behind your insurance card on the windshield!!!!! And don't go quitting your job just because you are guilty and don't want to pay up!

[Jammed9000]

"Cohrrurption his hwhy we hweiin"

SOUTHERN DRAWL.

Your doing it right.

[m64h]

"Corruption is why we win!"

Sounds suspiciously like, "greed is good" . . .

[deadmanshand2010]

one of my favorite movie quotes.

[yoe91]

That is one pathetic, stupid scene I must confess...

[chambestrapper]

I respect your comment but i just wanted to know why, is it stupid because its true? why are you complaining you should be happy your reaping the benefits of this system as am i, anybody that disagrees with this go move to Africa or the middle east for a week or a day then come back and i wanna ask you how do feel about corruption now?

[ucdconnectq]

How so?

[marlo971]

The white Clay Davis (the wire)!!

The best scene of the movie and one of the best scene i've ever seen!!

"He got a goddamn nobel prize..."

[shoutsman]

Tim Blake Nelson = pretty under-appreciated.

[rangedtiger]

interesting well i mean there will always be

corruption honestly i doubt you can ever stop it

greed greed greed :) always going to be like that messed up

[MannoMagic]

@rangedtiger

we would need another system which isn't based on greed and power

like the chiapanese anarchocommunism

[capitalmindz]

What separates us from the animals is the ability to fix a fight....

Think a bout it.

[hoodwinkedfool]

hey you two, shut up

[Capone000001]

lol, seriously what does the person who wins get? A cookie perhaps?

[dustylefou]

@hoodwinkedfool Especially the black guy.

[astrovine]

Antonio, I'm happy that you KNOW your priorities. Yes, America has it's foibles, it;s weakness, but you saw her strengths. Canadians are like cynical Americans too, those that haven't a clue about corruption in this world. We as Americans, don't know the good life afforded by our forefathers who understood TRUE CORRUPTION, as it exists in too many parts of this globe. You are right by considering your family FIRST and understands first hand what it is living here and making that choice.

[AntonioE07]

Hands down, best scene in the movie

[theSK8TER2]

you guys are doin exactly what the filmmaker wanted you not to do,you gotta understand that this movie isn't a political statement although the book that they based it partly on is.

i do agree on sum of your stuff tho.

[ThisCanadian]

There is NO 'WE' in CORRUPTION. tinyurl com/358qy4 so why do we BELIEVE that peace & prosperity are a ZERO-SUM GAME? because MEDIA likes to PROPAGANDIZE corruption as INEVITABLE. ~~~ Spread Love... BlueBerry Pick'n can be found @ ThisCanadian com ~~~ "We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid. ~~~ "Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

[proadmin1]

Sure it is, because people believe this.

despair com/corruption

[AntonioE07]

My opinion is that, as long as there is greed in man, corruption IS inevitable.

[ThisCanadian]

that's why we have Laws.

... celebrating corruption in a society is the surest path to instituting slavery...

[AntonioE07]

Nobody is celebrating corruption. Its wrong. But its there and at some point we have to make peace with that. There's corruption in every government, no matter where from. But this is a matter better left to politicians and law-makers to fight over. Us regular folk should just be thankful to have a warm roof over our heads, along with hot water and electricity, something folk from less fortunate countries can only dream of, unfortunately.

[ThisCanadian]

you have some pretty low expectations of your fellow citizens.

I'm reminded of an event a couple of weeks ago, when a Canadian politely reminded an American border fascist that he should ask "please" when being a rude asshole.

He got peppersprayed for asking for common courtesy.

Its a quick, slippery slope downwards into something that looks like & behaves like a Banana Republic...

enjoy the ride!

[AntonioE07]

Im not american. I'm an inmigrant from Cuba, a communist country with a great relationship with Canada. So having come to the US in search of a better life for my family, do you really think I can sit here and talk shit about the US without being a hypocrite? I can see how americans are hated all over the world- they can be arrogant, self-indungent whiners- but my loyalty lies with my family, and if I can come here and provide a good life for them, I cant argue with that, you understand me?

[ThisCanadian]

Too bad you thought the USA was the answer to all your problems. I'm sorry to hear that.

Its apparent that you bought into their consumerist 'Amerika Uber Alles!' propaganda.

[AntonioE07]

Dont be sorry. My family can enjoy a better quality of life not found in a lot of other places. And I didnt buy into ANYTHING. I am well aware of the rampant consumerism and its consequences. But im smart enough not to buy into into it. All I really need is food, shelter and decent transportation for me and my family. You will NEVER see me in a shopping spree. Only what is necessary and thats it. Remember Im from a country with very little so I conciously abstain from excess.

[ThisCanadian]

why did you choose the USA?

from where a lot of people sit, they had a lot to do with crippling Cuba...

some might think it looks a lot like abused children who cling to the abusive parent.

[AntonioE07]

Now you're being condescending. You've probably lived in Canada your whole life so you dont really KNOW what the deal is. What you fail to realize is that now Im able to help the family I left behind in Cuba with money and medicine they have no access to otherwise. I LOVE my country ( Cuba) but I have to look out for my family's best interest and whats best for them.

[ThisCanadian]

wrong.

I'm asking why the USA would be your choice, when the US was heavily responsible for harming Cubans

There are plenty of nations that would be a better place to live than the US.

I don't idealize Cuba, I simply don't think the USA has done much good in the World. WHINSEC: the World needs more torture schools to subdue all that human rights & union organizing!

You'll note that in Der Spiegel Obama admits that the US was responsible for the second global economic collapse in under a century

[AntonioE07]

What happened to Cuba was both parties' fault. The embargo was in place because of the hostile stance Castro took against the US when he took power ( he nearly started World War III back in the Missile Crisis). If he truly cared for the people, he would have eased up on his selfish crusade instead of takin the people down with him. Do u really think there's true communism in Cuba? The cuban government is corrupt as hell too. Only the top brass lives good, while the rest starves

[mrmagic112233]

@AntonioE07 that sums up the world, the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer :)

[HwarangOfFaith]

@mrmagic112233

lol um no, that's not what this quote is about kid...

[mrmagic112233]

um, understand the greater meaning to the quote...kid....

[HwarangOfFaith]

@mrmagic112233

LOL and that's "the rich get richer the poor getting poorer"? Aint you the amazing philosopher HAHAHA. That's the greater meaning to the quote ROFL. You are funny. Kid, go study postmodernism and talk.

[zionismwillburn]

@AntonioE07 Castro never took a hostile stance against the U.S. Castro was a nationalist trying to liberate Cuba from Batista. His first choice for an ally (like Ho Chi Minh's first choice) was the U.S. But since they were small nations challenging the European power structure, they were given the finger and their only other option was the USSR. Simple: if one superpower doesn't back you up, you go to the other.

[AntonioE07]

@zionismwillburn You're going to have to excuse me, friend. I grew up in Cuba so I have a bit of inside information. Castro never wanted an alliance with the US. In fact, Batista was a US-backed dictator, and Castro's objective when he overthrew Batista was to liberate Cuba from the, and I quote, "regimen imperialista de los Estados Unidos" . Castro alliance with Russia was only logical, since it was at the time the biggest communist power in the world. His hatred for capitalism is legendary.

[zionismwillburn]

@AntonioE07 Growing up in Cuba doesn't mean you're Fidel's friend or personal sidekick. Fidel was not a communist because communism, according to theory, is the next and final state of capitalism. Cuba, not being capitalist or industrial, could not be a capitalist nation, nor could it be a communist nation. Fidel did not praise Marx. He praised Marti. Like Ho Chi Minh, he took trips to the West for help. The alliance with the USSR was out of convenience, rather than ideology.

[AntonioE07]

@zionismwillburn I grew up being fed Marxism and Leninism for breakfast, lunch and dinner, along with Marti. They have the Cuban Communist Party, which happens to be the ONLY party in Cuba. Come on man. Growing up in Cuba doesn't make me Fidel's sidekick, nor do I wish to be, but it does mean that I know firsthand what the hell I'm talking about. You're only repeating something you read somewhere. I LIVED it. And do me a favor, watch the news. New footage shows Castro still bad-mouthing the US.

[zionismwillburn]

@AntonioE07 If you knew Marxism-Leninism, then you would know that only 2 social classes must exist. Nations like Cuba and Vietnam break that concept of the Proletariat vs the Bourgeoisie since the people of both these nations belong to neither. Cuba was a colonized Latin American nation, like Vietnam was to the French, so of course they'd be anti-American, and of course Castro would be anti-American after assassination attempts and sabotage. But in 1959 he was aiming for ally, not enemy.

[AntonioE07]

I think you got the wrong person, my friend. You're talkin to the guy that lists Fight Club, Syriana, Lord of War, and The Matrix as some of his favorites movies. I KNOW what the fuck is goin on, but its one of those things where the more you know, the less you wanna know. So I just mind my business.

[AntonioE07]

I could sit here all day and voice my disagreement with some of the american government's policies and how corrupt it can be, but then I'd be a huge hypocrite. I got a family to think about.

[ThisCanadian]

jawohl!

Mein Fuhrer!

they'll be safer if you keep them behind that barbed wire, *right over there*, Citizen...

[DerHalbeEuro]

yes, thats because america win...because they cheat! these american bastards will soon loose all international-"friends"...

[weaponsargent]

CORRUPTION IS WHY WE WIN!!!

[picasso79]

CLASSIC QUOTE....

great movie

[Frackal]

I'm sane and happy actually

[Frackal]

First of all, religion is an idealogy. Secularism is also an idealogy. Progressivism is an idealogy. A set of ideas that people use to direct behavior; whether it is their own, or that of a nation.

The only difference between a manic progressive and a manic right-wing evangelical are the terms they use, and the policies they suggest.

[Frackal]

"Theocracy is a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler. Theocracy should be distinguished from other secular forms of government that have a state religion, are influenced by theological concepts, and monarchies held "By the Grace of God".

[Frackal]

The US clearly does not fit into the description of an actual theocracy, nor does it even fit into the less-strong category described in the second sentence.

Another example of a case where a person cannot manage to do anything but clog up discussions with their utterly inaccurate and useless pissing and moaning.

.

[Frackal]

So eager to whine, so confident in what you say, and so inexplicably wrong - you claim the US is a theocracy, whining this claim like so many do, yet you don't even know the basic, one-sentence definition of what a theocracy is.

You do not help anything, you are the westernized version of arabs shooting guns in the air on the street yelling and screaming

[Frackal]

Listen, do you know what the definition of a "theocratic state" is?

It already seems clear that you're not about to let accuracy get in the way of your viewpoints, but your (sub)standards aren't universal.

[Frackal]

saying the US is a theocratic state is as dumb (or dumber) than saying Canada is ruled by the Queen of England

[HiMYSYeD]

This scene akin Gordon Gekko's 'Greed is Good' speech in the 1980's film Wall Street.

[lrobertson]

Yeah, seeing this clip reminded me that I'd wanted to see that.

[stockshunter]

CORRUPTION IS WHY WE WIN!