This may be when they were called the "No Hit" Supremes but it wan not because of Miss Mary or Miss Florence singing. Every one knew what was up with Berry Gordy and Miss Diana. So when Holland-Dozier-Holland gave the song "Where Did Our Love Go" to the Supremes after the Marveletts turned it down. HDH wanted Mary to sing the lead. However Berry was doing Diana and let he sing the lead. And that's was the start of a tragedy.
Had Ross taken the high road like Beyonce and been positive and supportive of her fellow female artists she would be roundly revered as an American instituation. Regardless of her awards and accolades she will always be viewed as the case scenario of the greedy limelight hog. Its an error she will never be able to correct no matter how many times she goes on BET and says she loves Mary. Its a shame. She could have been an icon.
Mary Wilson sounds beautiful on this song but this song wouldn't have ever been a hit record. Maybe if the Shirelles did this song at the time. The Motown formula wasn't quite perfected yet.
What's the other song Mary sang lead on before they made "where did our love go"? I forgot it's name but I do like it but can't find it on youtube anymore!
No one but Diana or Mary know what transpired with the Supremes. But with age a tolerence for bullshit takes a back seat I agree Mary said her I'am and Diane are grown ass women some with grandchildren lets move on and lets bury the hatchett. Even with Patti's stardom she and the remaining Bluebelles where able to put aside the differnces and give their fans something we all cheerish good
memories.Check your egos at the door ladies and lets move on
This is Mary's voice. And eww this song is so 1950's. Mary and Flo sang lead for two years and they couldn't produce a hit until Diana took over in 1963. So Kudo's to Diana and phooey on the other two. Cause there's no argument left, once you realize the preceding fact.
Correction they where dubbed the no hit supremes with Diana singing lead as well.The magic formula was HDH who could have made any of the three great.They wrote hits for the Marvelettes up until Barry put them on the Supremes.Diana voice work well for the songs they wrote which where cute songs with simple leads.the complexity of their songs where in the background vocals of which the other two excelled at .Lets give the whole group there props it was a blend of three talented people.
DRaTS didn't happen until after HDH left Motown. They were known as THE SUPREMES during HDH's tenure with them. Since DRaTS was a name used for such a short period of time, you might want to avoid such ananchronistic gestures by simply referring to the trio as they were most commonly known now and then as the legendary SUPREMES. Can the "Diana Ross and The Supremes" crap!
They were known as the DRATS for three years. Absorb it man! Absorb it! YOu can't change history; all the albums, singles, chart success and magazines recorded the new name. YOur a Supremes revisionist! A Supremes Faux Purist!
missbirdsong They were knowb as DRATS for 2 years and 4 months. When they got rid of Diane, the name was returned to THE SUPREMES! Even though re-released Cd's may say Diana Ross and The Supremes, NO one from those days EVER cal them that now OR then..........they are the SUPREMES with everyone excpet the misinformed, too young, or "Ross as a solo act" fans who are both!
The Supremes excelled at anything check out their version of Sincely a song made famous by the Mcquire sisters.They sound heavenly Diana on lead and Mary and Florence with the perfect blend of harmony.The Supremes could do any genre of music.This is why Berry gave them so many famous american composers to cover. They where and still are his most versitle singers bar none.
MARY WILSON is singing the lead on this song NOT Florence. Florence sang lead on Buttered Popcorn, Hey Baby Save Me A Star and Heavenly Father - from the Meet The Supremes sessions.
This is MARY's voice. NOT Flo. You can hear Flo on the top in the backing with her operatic soprano and Diana on the middle with her piercing tone
This is Mary Wilson singing Baby Don't Go, she says so in her book, you can tell its her by her singing. It sounds like Mary because it is Mary! Younger, unpolished but she has a good sound. Flo sings the lead on Buttered Popcorn and she is awesome. 2 totally different voices.
I agree with motownmaster. Flo is singing lead on "Baby Dont Go" Listen to "It Makes No Difference Now"(Supremes Sing CW and Pop). Then listen to "Buttered Popcorn". It's distinctively Mary on "It Makes...)" Flo had a great voice, cut short too soon. Mary continues to prove she's a masterful singer. We can't go back, but I can't help wondering how things would have turned out if there had been three lead singers.
The producers originally thought she would be better 'too'! I sorta tend to agree. You never know 'what' might've become of some of this stuff had they had their way. They 'WORKED' Diana on them. Had they 'WORKED' Mary OR FLO even PARTIALLY to the extent that Diane was drilled and worked, no telling WHAT these girls would've developed into, and would've been much happier. You DO more when you're happy!
I don't know 'WHY' you keep thumbin' down 'my' comments! I 'KNOW' what I'm talkin' about! And Ain't sayin' anything that is not true or bad mouthin' anyone! Is there a problem with 'THAT'? I could understand if I were meddlin' and pickin' fights WITH somebody. Ain't hap'nin' here! So, why the hate? Sad!!!!!!!
Mary Wilson sounds great here. I always knew the Supremes had THREE lead singers every since the very beginning! Diane and Flo sound great on background here as well.
Dusty Springfield was very successful, and she sounded ALOT like Mary! Mary's voice was stronger, tho'. But it was VERY similar, especially when she wasn't singing strongly!
At first I thought it was Flo, but I heard "The Tears" which Mary led, this is the same voice. And yes Mary SANG this song. I lost the album. I'm glad somebody posted this.
It isn't Flo, it's Mary Wilson singing lead. Florence sings lead on HEY BABY, BUTTERED POPCORN, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE NOW (second verse), AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS, OH HOLY NIGHT, SILENT NIGHT and PEOPLE
No way that is Mary alright. Listen to Buttered Popcorn, that features Flo on lead. Flo's vocal style was completely different. Flo tended to sing lead on the uptempo raucous songs like Hey Baby and Buttered Popcorn and Ain't That Good News (from their tribute album to Sam Cooke)
Haha, lol you are completely wrong. Buttered Popcorn features FLORENCE on lead, it's on wikipedia, ALSO Buttered Popcorn is featured on "The Supreme Florence Ballard" cd because it has Florence on lead. DIANA sings lead on Play A Sad Song.
You admit yourself you can't even remember what song Mary is on, well STOP putting thumbs down to people who actually KNOW who is singing what. MARY IS SINGING LEAD ON THIS, FLO ON BUTTERED POPCORN AND DIANA ON PLAY A SAD SONG
Flo's soprano SOARED it was operatic, it did not pierce like Diana, it is Diana on Play A Sad Song. Flo can even be heard clearly in the background. Go on my channel and find the vids of Florence singing SILENT NIGHT and OH HOLY NIGHT to hear her soprano. FACT IS FACT accept that you are wrong and stand corrected
Flo didn't 'always' sing that way. Her voice does have the same piercing quality like Diane;s. It's just fuller, and richer. Sometimes her voice even sounded 'creamy' for lack of a better term. But she was definitely a 'siren' as well. ;-p You KNOW this is not to dispute you, but just to add to the fact. You know Diane stole alot of things 'from' them and used them herself against them at times, including alot of their tactics and qualities too! But Flo had the BIGger voice! :)
Sorry Jonathan, Florence's voice was NOT operatic. She sang soprano but Cindy had a more operatic tone to her voice than Flo. IN fact, there was anasal quality to Flo's soprano also. Pleasing but nasal. Operatic is a term that mary used unfortunately to describe her singing partner's voice. Pretty Baby is an example of Flo's soprano. It is a formal sounding soprano but does not come near operatic.
Flo's voice was 'also' husky too! And it was gettin' huskier all the time. That's why they thought her voice was deteriorating. She had a high range and sang it. But that is what happens to many who sing high for a long time. Listen to them talk, HER voice was MUCH huskier than Mary's. Mary's voice was always smooth.
Is that what happened to Diana's voice too? She sang very high for a long time and the deterioration of her voice was unmistakable. I first noticed it in 1976/77
That "IS" what happened to Diane's voice! That and the lack of proper taking care of her voice, or her 'self'. The voice is always the first thing to go when you are wearing yourself down in a sort of way.
Jean's Voice is still very much alive! I heard a live show of hers recently, and could NOT stop listening to her! She ROCKS!!!! But Yeah, that IS what happened to Diane's voice too. It's just something that happens to some 'high' voices.
No way that is Mary alright. Listen to Buttered Popcorn, that features Flo on lead. Flo's vocal style was completely different. Flo tended to sing lead on the uptempo raucous songs like Hey Baby and Buttered Popcorn and Ain't That Good News (from their tribute album to Sam Cooke)
It's a big duh to me. It's Mary. Saw her recently at Sunset Junction in Silverlake-Los Angeles, Calif (8-2009) She was ok. The band sounded better than she did
The band was better than she was when you saw Mary? Yeah, that's sort of like when Diane appears live and "croaks" behind a great band and her phony "Supremes" who are singing louder than she is and singing all the high parts for her! I guess you never thought of that, did you? Diane's concerts are all illusion.........at least you can hear Mary sing!
Yeah but you wish you hadn't. You know you've seen Ross live. How do you know that happens at her concerts; spies.? Yes, Ross' female (sometimes male) backing does sing the high notes with her. Touring is a grind on someone her age. Her voice is not as pliable. She utilizes the support. Mary Mary a gospel group who can out sing most folk do the same thing on tour; use singers for support. Perhaps Mary should do the same. Ross hoarse and tired is still better than Mary. I have seen both!
you are so right ms birdsong..even a hoarse ross sounds better than fat mary on her Best days. mary wilson can not never could sing. flo did have a decent voice but not unique. mary is like otis williams in the tempts..just a back up singer and filler. no real talent to stand on her own. even this song sounds harsh and sounds like an old marvelettes song that they sang only because they were told to do so. its awful.
Missbirdcrap, Weren't you the one who said that you are a fan of ALL the ladies of the legendary trio? I am the one that called you a RAASAF. From your comments on this site, who is right? I rest my case......... and besides that, you should be ashamed of yourself!!!!!!!!
HurtSupreme, I can be a fan and still see the truth. Diana sings flat sometimes too. Flo drank. Mary lies. That doesn't mean I am not a fan. It means I am somewhat objective about them. You just called Diana's concerts all illusion and I can't have an opinion about Mary's? Hello Kettle, your name must be pot! Whenare we gonna go see "Diane" together, huh?
Missbirdcrap. Also, Diane was never a beauty in the classic sense and her voice today is in serious deterioration; however, you are NEVER the FIRST one to say that! But, let there be a negative thing to say about Mary or Flo and BOY..............you're right there to throw the first stone! I don't call that OBJECTIVE! Don't call me the "pot" because you are certainly the "kettle," smarty!
...........and another thing! OBJECTIVE? You give Cindy a free ride on everything! Yes, Cindy is sweet and gracious..........I love her, too; however, she did not contribute to the group vocally, and she is not part of the legendary lineup. She is one of my favorite "knock-off Supremes." I love her as much if not more as a BLUEBELLE! So once again, YOU are the "kettle" telling the "pot" that it is "dirty," not ME!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I am objective. I don't give Cindy a free pass. I am not the hall monitor that you seem to think you are! Cindy has not done anything but contribute to the legacy of the legend that is the Sups. She may have done her original group some dirt. I am aware of that. I defend the unfair things said about Ross in the myriad. Yes, her rep is well earned. Flo is often deified here on these sites. She is all victim to most. I disagree. Cindy's voice was best utilized in the Jean T version
When you say that Diane's reputation is well earned, I am assuming that you are referring to her reputation as a "wicked witch!!!" I agree that Flo is often deified on these sites; however, look at how some of these people go on and on about Diane! Talk about deification! She''ll be croaking some song in that same old red dress and these people will be fawning all over her like she can actually sing calling her a goddess. Then, when I call them on it, they want to kill me!
I would take in consideration the body of stuff I'd written about Ross on this thread. I have cited her grandiosity, her selfishness, her lack of honesty in her bio, and on. I am one of the more objective people on this site and you MUSt know that! I am not of Ross worshipper nor a Flo deist nor a blind follower of Mary's hyped up talent. Cindy has never slung mud so I don't sling any at her.
Missbirdcrap, I do correspond with you and Doolie for the reasons that you stated; however, I do find that you are particularly hard on Mary. The "hyped up talent" to which you refer is actually homage to the fact that she is one of the founding and surviving members of a legendary trio. So great is the legacy of The Supremes that the lead singer and (to a lesser extent) a background singer with limited lead appeal have both been able to sustain (and in Diane's case extend) their careers.
HurtSupreme, Okay, I agree I AM hard on Mary because she tells so MANY half truths and lies. I find that hard to swallow. I tend to lash out at Mary fans when they demean the talent and stardom of Ross. It is possible to have a preference without casting stones at either. I love Mary for her part in the Sups. She was a big part of the Visual appeal of the orig trio. I did not come to appreciate her vocals until the 70's. I thinkl her smokey alto had more appeal than Flo's voice, CONTD
I preferred Mary's approach to her solos. Flo always sounded a little nervous to me. I disagree that DR's voice is in serious decline. She is not hitting her high notes and her voice has aged. It is very typical with soprano voices from pop to opera. DR used the backdrop of the SUPs to create a career beyond them. Mary has extended her career. I disagree with the premise your present. I try to be fair. I merely responded to your dig at DR with a real dig at MW. DRearned rep in 2 ways...
The hard working perfectionist, talented, diva and the so-called bitch and the imperious and grandiose woman with a rep for generosity are all deserved by her. She is not a monolith. What some forget is that DR had to prove to Flo and Mary that she was able to lead and be a singer of renknown despite their doubts and envy. I think she eventually rubbed it in their faces via her rel. with BG. It was wrong.
DR wanted the fame more than she wanted friendships, ties to Detroit, etc. It was her decision. Mary and Flo wanted to have the dream and the dram became a business. Ross was abused by BG. She wrote it in her book. She was used by him and she used him too.I guess in her mind the end justified the means. Flo wand Mary got in the way and got hurt. I recently read The Lost Supreme (yesterday). I did give me more insight into Flo's life. I have more love for her now but I find that CONTD
She didn't tell the whole truth about herself. She did not really see her own contributions to her fall. BG did do Flo dirt BUT while it was good for them they rode it to the hilt. I say to Mary after DR left: Welcome to Martha and Gladys' world, honey. Now you know how they felt. Even though neither of them could have done what the SUPS did at the time they did it. Flo had some mental health issues tha were magnified by how she was treated not CREATED. BG and DR contributed to that.
Missbirdcrap, Thank you for your honesty and I do not take issue with much of what you say; however, your reason for being so hard on Mary is the same reason why I am so hard on Diane. Just as you try to maintain "balance" by being hard on Mary with the Supremes fans, I am doing the same thing with the RAASAFs. I do not feel that Mary is any less trutfhul than Diane and for me, Diane's voice IS gone.....the voice that I fell in love with is no more! You call it mature...I call it "shot!"
Well Hurt, of COURSE the voice that you fell in love with is not the same. She still sounds like herself. I have heard her recently in concert and on her I love YOu CD. Her highest notes don't appear to be there but she came to fame singing in her mid and lower range which is still very much alive. Only her work with A&S brought out her highest register. As for MW to wite a basic expose and then pretend not to know why Ross would be angry is detestable! It is a HIDDEOUS lie. CONTD
Then to go around and continue to make statements of half truths and outright lies connected to her history with her "sister" is pathologically wicked. I find her actions reprehensible. No, Diana has not been honest about her actions during the SUPS heyday, fact. I think she is not willing to objectively examine her actions from then. I think it'll cause a crisis of identitiy for her; she needs to though.
Missbirdcrap, I ask you this question in earnest: Why are Mary's actions described as "reprehensible and pathological" while Diane's are excused because it will cause an "identity crisis" for her to take responsibility for her actions? As for Diane's voice, the change goes beyond the loss of her higher range. Her voice is thicker, huskier, and also a bit hoarse sounding even in the lower range which is the more familiar.
Because Diana did what she did as a young ambitious and emotionally immature woman under the influence of an abusive svwengali like lover-starmaker. I think what she did then was evident of a flaw in character, def. Mary was a woman who had lived, experienced life and made a grown woman's choice to sell her friendship for a buck. A friend who'd helped her when she was in need. I don't EXCUSE DIana's actions. I make a diff between a 23 year old woman and a 40 year old woman. MW was 40. I have
maintained all along that all three women had head issues. Ross not being able/willing to be honest is also a character flaw. MW cries abo
ut feeling betrayed and then does just that in her book! What a big hypocrite. She told DR in her dressing room; "Well Diane, nobody wants to read a book about me." Her mess was calculated and about the dough. Ross made a calculation too but an emotional one in my view. MW&FB both said they didn't view D's actions as mean spirited but selfish
She still sounds like herself to me just older. I wonder how you know so much about her vocal changes not having seen her? Her records don't relect what you can hear in her live performances. She is only really hoarse sounding on tour. Touring is very taxing on the voice period; let alone ona senior citizen.
Missbirdcrap. I do enjoy hearing your views.......they are interesting insights. The reason why I'm easier on Mary is because, in my view, all she had was the Supremes' legacy and she capitalizied on it with her book. The part of Mary that I didn't understand was when she sold the "Dreamgirl" movie rights to Motown knowing that the movie would never be made because they offered the most money. I've never gotten over that. On one hand, I understand that she wanted the money....but still!
Missbirdcrap, As for Diane's voice, I am as familiar with it as her most ardent RAASAF. Yes, it is true that I haven't seen her live since 1968 when she appeared at the Baltimore Civic Center with Mary and Cindy; however, I have followed her solo career, watched her televsion appearances as well as listened to her CDs.. Some of her solo recordings in the 70's and 80's were wonderful! I will admit that I still love to listen to "When You Tell Me That You Love Me." That is one of the few cont
solo efforts that she recorded that are awe inspiring. I listen very carefully to her voice to reach the conclusions that I have shared. I know that voice and I have a good enough ear to know that it isn't what is was; however, the biggest thing for me is all the hype about Diane! I feel that I must me critical of her in order to balance the fawning and worshiping of her fans. Diane is not loyal to the Supremes........only her own legacy. contd
Missbirdcrap You claim to have been there for the original lineup of the legendary trio. If you were, you know that they were pretty much "it!" in a way that these RAASAFs will never know even though they think they do! The way that they percieve the trio is way out of line with the reality of how it was. I can't stand how the "RAASA" legacy has disorted the legacy of the Supremes and I will continue to be "Christopher Columbus" telling people who feel the world is flat that it is round!
Do you think that blkshepherd, Crud, Oceanbound and the rest of the RAASAFs have the first clue of how great The Supremes actually were? That's what I'm up against and I will continue to fight the good fight. Unfortunately, it will take Diane's death and probably another 10 years after that for the dust to settle and for history to vindicate itself. By that time, we'll probably be dead (maybe even before Diane). Diane will be remembered first as the lead singer of The Supremes!
Anyone who says that Diana Ross WAS the Supremes just doesn't know. There are those who viewed it that way; BG did, of course. Fans always have their fave. Flo fans believe she had a phenom voice and could have taken the SUPS even higher. Mary fans think she was as talented as Ross and should have beene the lead and has gotten bad breaks for 40 years..Generationally some will always remeber her best as the lead singer of the Sups. To the next generation she wil be remebered as a solo CONTD
Yes, the Supremes were IT! No other girl group possessed their aura or stage presence or hits. They were a phenom. Flo's regal appearance, Mary's beauty and Diana's presence and expressive facial moves and voice. HOT! Do you remember that Mary had this habit of singing out of the side of her mouth. It was cute/funny. Kind of a sexy thing she picked up from some old chantuesse she saw somewhere. Mary was bar far the best dancer of all; Flo really couldn't dance and DIana's dancing was CONTD
a little geeky. The best eg of this is on a vid of them performing Love...Itchin' on Sullivan in those yellow gowns with the floating panels. Mary is DOING the moves, Flo is doing her best and Diana is boppin up and down like a geek. FUNNY! At the point where there's the break in vocals Diana goes back to the girls and they are supposed to just dance. Mary is working and Flo and does a 2 step. Diana is yelling "Go Mary" and Mary rolls her eyes. Please tell me you've seen this! Yes.."IT!"
Hurt, darling, Mary did just what she claimed DR did. Mary used the SUPS as a backdrop for her financial security just like Diana did. HOw then does she stand in judgement. This is what frustratees me about people who defend what Mary did. I think Mary always envied the assertive, fearless aspect of her friend's nature and benefitted from it via the group. When DR went for HERS apart from F&M she got hurt and resentful. When she woke up she was too old to do somerthing else. Showbiz is all
Missbirdcrap, Yes, the Ed Sullivan "Love is Like an Itchin'......" clip is a classic! I guess the reason why I tend to be on Mary's side most of the time, despite the fact that she can be as greedy as Diane, is because her actions usually involve protecting the Supremes' legacy (at least on the surface) while Diane is out there taking care of Miss "Ross." In actuality, Mary is doing the same thing; however, it is under the guise of the The Supremes' legacy. No I didn't read Diane's CD cont
review. As far as I am concerned, that description of her voice as being " thick, husky, and hoarse" is my own evaluation. Apparently, others share my views. It kills me on some of these sites where Diane is croaking some song and the RAASAFs are fawning all over her saying that she is a goddess and how great her voice sounds! I just stand in AMAZEMENT! What is with these people?
They're possessed by some demon!!!!!!!!!!! Aren't they hearing the same thing that I am hearing?
Glad that you can see Mary is really taking care of Mary nder the guise of the Supremes' legacy. The music and the impact they made takes care of the legacy. Another 2 generations will have to pass before someone needs to remind folks of the Supremes. Ross has always been just who she is in that regard. Joining the group was a way to acheive what she eventually did. I qam sure she grew to love her group mates but she was gonna BE a star, the SUPS were the first thing leaving the station.
Yes, others share your view. The review did not deman her voice he just acknowledged that it has aged and matured some. He didn't like the waver she now has on her light notes on the fade; really evident on "I've Got a Crush with Rod Stewart. Diana and Mary are more alike than they know I'd bet. Diana is merely more assertive and a go-getter. I think Mary wants to be perceived a nice and so doesn't initially do what she really wanted to do so creates a false reason for her actions. CONTD
Refusing to do the RTL concert when she simply didn't want to sing background anymore is a good example. She then goes on TV and claims DR was greedy and wouldn't divided the money equally. Criticizing DR for having tow actual SUPS when she's been touring for years with two fake SUPS, another eg. I DO OT think DR should have carried on without M&C but Mary's smokescreendidn't blind me or others who can see through her envy inspired actions. Love them both & wish they could be better friends
Missbirdcrap, The Ribowsky book summed it up well when he basically said that Mary has her territory and Diane has hers. I blame Diane for the failure of that tour because she should have known that the public would never have allowed that to go with two phony Supremes. She should also have known that Mary would get the sympathy vote when she ran to the press which is exactly what happened. I wouldn't be willing to stand like a "flag pole" behind Diane, either! I don't blame Mary for that!
Missbirdcrap I like Mary; however, I have found that she is moody and I don't always get the feeling that she is particularly genuine. I've been out to dinner with her and had a wonderful time. The next time I would see her she would be minimally available. I don't like that...........treat me in a consistent manner! As one of what she calls the "A" fans in her book, I expect more! I've gotten the attention and the validation from her many times; however, she can also be very aloof!
You are right about Mary. I know that for a fact. One time she'll be friendly, making plans for shopping with you and then she'll cancel and not take calls. True. I once sent her a gift via mail. A very thoughtful gesture , I felt. She had some assistant send a note that said: "I am in receipt of your parcel." Aloof and impersonal. We had met several times. She was very flirty and funny. I loved meeting her initially. She was like hot and cold water. I still love Mary.
I told her I was one of her biggest fans. My friend who was there said I WAS the SUPS biggest. She laughed and said "I don't know about that.." She then gave me a couple of tests to ascertain my level of knowledge. It was cute. She is very pretty (at least then) she looks kind of mawkish now. Pretty in a plastic surgery kind of way. I knew her friendliness was because I was a fan. It felt like that to me. I think the note was a way to say to me: "This far and no more."
Missbirdcrap, In some ways, I understand why Mary has to put up those barriers. There is only so much of her and everyone wants a piece of her! This is her job........she has good days and bad ones just like the rest of us! If she didn't define limits. there woulld be nothing left of her......she would be consumed. As for the RTL tour: it is my recollection that the show was staged and produced by the time that Mary was contacted. Her only input was to either accept or reject the money!
I also understand that. Despite that the note was still very, very cool. Not nice. Your point about the show being staged and produced is half correct. Mary was contacted by Diana months before the money offer was made. At that point nothing was in stone. She was miffed at that point that Diana hadn't called her sooner. Diana needed to make sure that she could get real backing so that is why she didn't call. The rumor of the so-called reunion was leaked inorder to ascertain public CONTD
interest. DR contoacted MW 2x by phone and talked w/ her. A poll was taken by production & CB had better name recog than MW. Mary delayed and lost out 4 mil was the offer. DR said all M had to do was "show up". She meant in regard to the $ NOT the planning of the show. DR ws making the point that MW didn't have to pay for anyting connected to the cost of the show and DR DID. I don't think she wanted M to be a flag pole again. MW wanted to correct a wrong w/ RTL $ that was illogical.
You and I both know that the RTL was, from the "git," a "Diana Ross" show. It was never conceived as a SUPREMES reunion in the true sense. The whole second half of the show was Diane and her RAASA material! Maybe Diane didn't expect Mary to be a "flagpole;" however, Sherrie and Lynda sure were! Why do you think it would have been any different for Mary? I know it, YOU know it, and MARY knew it, too! THAT's why she wanted no part of it! When she aquiesced, it was too late!
good enough for her she shoulda said so from the start. Why complain that D didn't call her early enough, Why claim the money wasn't right, etc. THAT's what I mean about her. She is a LIAR and a vain glorious person. She is either very dumb or very deluded to think she should have gotten the same money or that the same demand would be there for her to do anything but sing her old Supremes parts or 70's leads. Only diehard fans (us) cares what Mary sings or where. Sad but rue, YOU know that!
On the other hand Ross should have dropped the whole idea when Mary and Cindy were not available. She coulda paid Cindy to be on the tour and do some duet something or other jsut for PR purposes and leave MW to stew at home. Maybe you all are right that Ross never really wanted to work with Mary again. The risks for DR wld be very risky. Another backstage book may have been the outcome. RTL is dead and a reunion is too. My computer doesn't skip keys but my finders DO!
Missbirdcrap, For all the reasons mentioned, Mary thought that she was getting a bum deal. Mary also holds a "trump" card (the legacy of the original Supremes). We can say what we want about what Mary should or should not have done; however, it was Diane and the promoters who were shortsighted to not recognize Mary's power with the press AND her willingness to use it against the tour. For that, Diane got what she deserved! Does Diane actually believe that SHE is The Supremes? She isn't!!!
If "Diane" thought she WAS the Supremes she would not have contacted Mary personally. Diana did underestimate Mary's lack of real willingness to do the tour. You and Mary contradict yourselves. Mary says the money was not good (bum deal) What would have made it okay, MORE money?! If it was never about the money I STILL say she shoulda just SAID SO.
Missbirdcrap, The fact that Diane even considered going out with the "phony" Supremes proved that she thought that she WAS The Supremes......what else could she have been thinking? As for Mary, there were two forms of recognition: the money and artistic control in the tour. Since Mary learned t hat shewasn't getting any artistic control, she wanted more money. When she realized that the last amount she was offered was the final offer, she eventally acquiesced....it was too late!
Missbircrap, Who said it was too late, Diane or the promoters? It's hard to imagine that the promoters would have said "no" to Mary if Diane wanted her! Add the fact that Sheriie and Lynda were already in place and you can make your own conclusion: Diane DIDN'T want Mary there!!!!!!! It was a huge miscalculation on Diane's part! Diane controls the "Diana Ross" part; however, Mary STILL has power when it comes to "and The Supremes!
Yeah you are right abaout the Supremes part and Mary's control. Yet your explanation explains that Mary is shallow IMO. She claimed that she refused to do the RTL tour because of the inequity of the money! The artisitc control issue was secondary. Scherrie was already in place to provide supportive voice for Mary and Cindy. She was already a part. Diana went to see the FLOS and decided to bring aboard Lynda. DR thought real SUPS were necc so she hires S&L. I agree wrong estimated MW
It could be entirely true that Diana didn't want Mary. I certainly couldn't blame her. If that was true then no tour should have been discusses, period. It couldn't happen w/out MW. I agree 100% with that. I see what FB said aboaut MW though. DR will tell you up front about her intentions; MW is duplicitous. Not Flo's exact words but it is waht she meant. This is a good example of that, IMO. I think these 2 women need to sit and talk honestly with an unbiased party. I wish they would
Missbirdcrap Mary did acknowledge that it wasn't just the money in Jet Magazine. She said that when Diane said that "all she had to do was to show up" was what angered her the most! Mary may be duplicitous; however, Diane is not always forthcoming with the truth! They both lie! Each one is supporting their own cause and their own vantage point of The supremes. BTW, isn't nice to talk on this site without all the crazies interrupting us?
It's just a matter of time before they discover us.
NO, Sherrie and LYnda were not "flagpoles" each of them had solo numbers (whole numbers of extended time). I believe Mary would have received a different consideration. She was a lynchpin in the gig. If she wanted no part of it why bitch about it? Why delay in saying just that? Why drag out her answer? Why run to the media and complain about? You're right it was never even supposed to be a SUPS reunion show. It was to be a segment in the Ross tour with "real SUPS". If that wasn't CONTD
Hurt, NOR WOULD I but my point is why did she not just refuse. She HAD to know that Diana would not have wanted to share the stage completely with her. She should have been shrewd and negotiated something she could live with. She could have negotiated the reunion to be the SUPS reunion and not the reunion of DR & The SUPS. I hold these two women responsible. Mary waited until it was too late for the promoters and the offer was withdrawn.
Dude you don't have to educate me about the Supremes--I'm 56 yrs. old, and unlike you, was around when this stuff was coming out new and saw them perform live more than a dozen times...Also, at this early stage of their careers Florence and Diane swapped off on singing leads, NOT Mary, --name me one other song Mary recorded the lead on prior to 1966...
Age is NOT a factor in this. I am not looking to pick a fight, just stating the FACTS go on WIKIPEDIA it will tell you, ask DIANA herself, that is NOT Flo's voice. Please listen to Buttered Popcorn if you haven't already, and you will hear how FLO sounds as this is Mary in this video
Sunset with Diane on Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop, and the first verse on It Makes No Difference Now, Our Day Will Come recorded April 1965, She is the dominating voice on I Idolize You from 1963, Mary sings lead on this, and The Tears
This may be when they were called the "No Hit" Supremes but it wan not because of Miss Mary or Miss Florence singing. Every one knew what was up with Berry Gordy and Miss Diana. So when Holland-Dozier-Holland gave the song "Where Did Our Love Go" to the Supremes after the Marveletts turned it down. HDH wanted Mary to sing the lead. However Berry was doing Diana and let he sing the lead. And that's was the start of a tragedy.
rtcopper 7 months ago
This osng should have been a hit
coolsweetgroovy 8 months ago
becuzz mary in was in the supremes longer then any of the girl... she iz my favorite & she killed thiz track!1
damezydemo 9 months ago
I love you Mary Wilson
edwin46344 11 months ago 2
they really lost a good blend when Barbara left, Flo, Diane and Barbara had a good 3 part harmony
MotownMaster 1 year ago
Nice, another side, though early at that, of
this great group, that you never hear.
Thanks for sharing.
BarneyUSMC 1 year ago
Had Ross taken the high road like Beyonce and been positive and supportive of her fellow female artists she would be roundly revered as an American instituation. Regardless of her awards and accolades she will always be viewed as the case scenario of the greedy limelight hog. Its an error she will never be able to correct no matter how many times she goes on BET and says she loves Mary. Its a shame. She could have been an icon.
ganzaii 1 year ago
Oh my goodness. Diana blended well in the back group. I guess small miracles do happen.
carolinaguy321 1 year ago 2
Mary Wilson sounds beautiful on this song but this song wouldn't have ever been a hit record. Maybe if the Shirelles did this song at the time. The Motown formula wasn't quite perfected yet.
babyluvchild 1 year ago 4
What's the other song Mary sang lead on before they made "where did our love go"? I forgot it's name but I do like it but can't find it on youtube anymore!
Support4MySingers 1 year ago
@Support4MySingers
Are You talking bout "The Tears"?
suedemiddleton 1 year ago
Mary was the prettiest of the group
robertsc24 1 year ago
No one but Diana or Mary know what transpired with the Supremes. But with age a tolerence for bullshit takes a back seat I agree Mary said her I'am and Diane are grown ass women some with grandchildren lets move on and lets bury the hatchett. Even with Patti's stardom she and the remaining Bluebelles where able to put aside the differnces and give their fans something we all cheerish good
memories.Check your egos at the door ladies and lets move on
pookiechristopher 2 years ago
hi can you please tell me what music genre is that and similar bands thats play the same music in the 6os thanks
colombicha 2 years ago
This song is greaaat
primadonna11 2 years ago
This is Mary's voice. And eww this song is so 1950's. Mary and Flo sang lead for two years and they couldn't produce a hit until Diana took over in 1963. So Kudo's to Diana and phooey on the other two. Cause there's no argument left, once you realize the preceding fact.
LoveTheSupremes 2 years ago
Correction they where dubbed the no hit supremes with Diana singing lead as well.The magic formula was HDH who could have made any of the three great.They wrote hits for the Marvelettes up until Barry put them on the Supremes.Diana voice work well for the songs they wrote which where cute songs with simple leads.the complexity of their songs where in the background vocals of which the other two excelled at .Lets give the whole group there props it was a blend of three talented people.
pookiechristopher 2 years ago
I'll concur with that. I forgot how important HDH was. A lot of credit is due to HDH. Had it not been for them, DRaTS might not have happened.
LoveTheSupremes 2 years ago
LoveTheSupremes,
DRaTS didn't happen until after HDH left Motown. They were known as THE SUPREMES during HDH's tenure with them. Since DRaTS was a name used for such a short period of time, you might want to avoid such ananchronistic gestures by simply referring to the trio as they were most commonly known now and then as the legendary SUPREMES. Can the "Diana Ross and The Supremes" crap!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
They were known as the DRATS for three years. Absorb it man! Absorb it! YOu can't change history; all the albums, singles, chart success and magazines recorded the new name. YOur a Supremes revisionist! A Supremes Faux Purist!
missbirdsong 2 years ago
missbirdsong They were knowb as DRATS for 2 years and 4 months. When they got rid of Diane, the name was returned to THE SUPREMES! Even though re-released Cd's may say Diana Ross and The Supremes, NO one from those days EVER cal them that now OR then..........they are the SUPREMES with everyone excpet the misinformed, too young, or "Ross as a solo act" fans who are both!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Hey Kurt NUTT LOAF..you still at it I see. you old fat drag queen..give it up.
blkshepherd 2 years ago
FACT?
stage7 2 years ago
The Supremes excelled at anything check out their version of Sincely a song made famous by the Mcquire sisters.They sound heavenly Diana on lead and Mary and Florence with the perfect blend of harmony.The Supremes could do any genre of music.This is why Berry gave them so many famous american composers to cover. They where and still are his most versitle singers bar none.
pookiechristopher 2 years ago
MARY WILSON is singing the lead on this song NOT Florence. Florence sang lead on Buttered Popcorn, Hey Baby Save Me A Star and Heavenly Father - from the Meet The Supremes sessions.
This is MARY's voice. NOT Flo. You can hear Flo on the top in the backing with her operatic soprano and Diana on the middle with her piercing tone
THEJLG 2 years ago
This is Mary Wilson singing Baby Don't Go, she says so in her book, you can tell its her by her singing. It sounds like Mary because it is Mary! Younger, unpolished but she has a good sound. Flo sings the lead on Buttered Popcorn and she is awesome. 2 totally different voices.
Eddieb715 2 years ago 2
I agree with motownmaster. Flo is singing lead on "Baby Dont Go" Listen to "It Makes No Difference Now"(Supremes Sing CW and Pop). Then listen to "Buttered Popcorn". It's distinctively Mary on "It Makes...)" Flo had a great voice, cut short too soon. Mary continues to prove she's a masterful singer. We can't go back, but I can't help wondering how things would have turned out if there had been three lead singers.
grandb3 2 years ago
grandb3 , you have it all wrong. Buttered Popcorn is without a doubt Flo, This song has Mary on the lead
LoveTheSupremes 2 years ago
Like The Temptations! They weren't hindered by their diversity of lead singers.....at ALL!
stage7 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I adore FLORENCE BALLARD!!!!!!!!!! fuck diana ross!
prjr1973 2 years ago
I like Diana Ross, cause she had the whole package, which by the way, isn't easy to do. You either have it or you don't.
LoveTheSupremes 2 years ago 5
@LoveTheSupremes You can love Diana Ross all you want but this single (Baby Don't Go) is a Mary Wilson Extravaganza! AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT!
TWTR4EVER 1 year ago
I will always luv
f
fl
flo
flor
flore
floren
florenc
florence
lorellrobinson 2 years ago
thnx for posting!! 5 stars!!
I think that Mary should sang lead on
-Where did our love go
-Reflections
-You cant hurry Love
suedemiddleton 2 years ago
The producers originally thought she would be better 'too'! I sorta tend to agree. You never know 'what' might've become of some of this stuff had they had their way. They 'WORKED' Diana on them. Had they 'WORKED' Mary OR FLO even PARTIALLY to the extent that Diane was drilled and worked, no telling WHAT these girls would've developed into, and would've been much happier. You DO more when you're happy!
stage7 2 years ago
true!
suedemiddleton 2 years ago
I don't know 'WHY' you keep thumbin' down 'my' comments! I 'KNOW' what I'm talkin' about! And Ain't sayin' anything that is not true or bad mouthin' anyone! Is there a problem with 'THAT'? I could understand if I were meddlin' and pickin' fights WITH somebody. Ain't hap'nin' here! So, why the hate? Sad!!!!!!!
stage7 2 years ago
Mary Wilson sounds great here. I always knew the Supremes had THREE lead singers every since the very beginning! Diane and Flo sound great on background here as well.
DetroitD60 3 years ago 4
and clearly.....Barb....;-p
stage7 2 years ago
her voice wasn't as pop sounding as diana thus she she wasn't lead
okydokes 3 years ago
Dusty Springfield was very successful, and she sounded ALOT like Mary! Mary's voice was stronger, tho'. But it was VERY similar, especially when she wasn't singing strongly!
stage7 2 years ago
yeah ur right lol its Mary i heard it she is amazin 2 but Flo was also all of them lmao
thnxs 4 putting these videos on there great
1 starsy
starsy25 3 years ago 2
i love this song and i love the pictures!
iluvflorenceballard 3 years ago 3
And Mary sings lead on Pretty Baby, when they were The Primettes from 1960
MotownMaster 3 years ago 3
At first I thought it was Flo, but I heard "The Tears" which Mary led, this is the same voice. And yes Mary SANG this song. I lost the album. I'm glad somebody posted this.
ioxxd90 3 years ago 6
omg Flo's voice was so damn beautyfull
starsy25 3 years ago 3
It isn't Flo, it's Mary Wilson singing lead. Florence sings lead on HEY BABY, BUTTERED POPCORN, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE NOW (second verse), AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS, OH HOLY NIGHT, SILENT NIGHT and PEOPLE
JonathanLGardnerTV 3 years ago 3
Listen to "A Breathtaking Guy." Florence sings "first sight soul-shaking" and Mary sings "next day heartbraking."
cbrem 3 years ago
WOW you got something right. Well done that is correct
JonathanLGardner 3 years ago
Trust me that is Mary Wilson and she sound great. She has soul in her singing.
redwalls76 3 years ago
Mary it IS!
chrissen1 3 years ago
I believe that that's Florence Ballard, not Mary Wilson, singing the lead on this....
billyfcollins 4 years ago
No way that is Mary alright. Listen to Buttered Popcorn, that features Flo on lead. Flo's vocal style was completely different. Flo tended to sing lead on the uptempo raucous songs like Hey Baby and Buttered Popcorn and Ain't That Good News (from their tribute album to Sam Cooke)
JonathanLGardner 4 years ago
Mary sang lead on "Buttered Popcorn." Mary has a deep, smokey voice.
Flo sang lead on "Play a Sad Song," and had a much higher voice, almost piercing at times.
cbrem 3 years ago
No, not "Play a Sad Song." Now I can't remember which one it was, but it's definitely Mary on "Popcorn."
cbrem 3 years ago
Haha, lol you are completely wrong. Buttered Popcorn features FLORENCE on lead, it's on wikipedia, ALSO Buttered Popcorn is featured on "The Supreme Florence Ballard" cd because it has Florence on lead. DIANA sings lead on Play A Sad Song.
You admit yourself you can't even remember what song Mary is on, well STOP putting thumbs down to people who actually KNOW who is singing what. MARY IS SINGING LEAD ON THIS, FLO ON BUTTERED POPCORN AND DIANA ON PLAY A SAD SONG
JonathanLGardner 3 years ago 3
Flo's soprano SOARED it was operatic, it did not pierce like Diana, it is Diana on Play A Sad Song. Flo can even be heard clearly in the background. Go on my channel and find the vids of Florence singing SILENT NIGHT and OH HOLY NIGHT to hear her soprano. FACT IS FACT accept that you are wrong and stand corrected
JonathanLGardner 3 years ago
lol @ pierce...
ioxxd90 3 years ago
Bro.
Flo didn't 'always' sing that way. Her voice does have the same piercing quality like Diane;s. It's just fuller, and richer. Sometimes her voice even sounded 'creamy' for lack of a better term. But she was definitely a 'siren' as well. ;-p You KNOW this is not to dispute you, but just to add to the fact. You know Diane stole alot of things 'from' them and used them herself against them at times, including alot of their tactics and qualities too! But Flo had the BIGger voice! :)
stage7 2 years ago
Sorry Jonathan, Florence's voice was NOT operatic. She sang soprano but Cindy had a more operatic tone to her voice than Flo. IN fact, there was anasal quality to Flo's soprano also. Pleasing but nasal. Operatic is a term that mary used unfortunately to describe her singing partner's voice. Pretty Baby is an example of Flo's soprano. It is a formal sounding soprano but does not come near operatic.
missbirdsong 2 years ago 3
Flo's voice was 'also' husky too! And it was gettin' huskier all the time. That's why they thought her voice was deteriorating. She had a high range and sang it. But that is what happens to many who sing high for a long time. Listen to them talk, HER voice was MUCH huskier than Mary's. Mary's voice was always smooth.
It's Diane on Sad Song unmistakably!
stage7 2 years ago
Is that what happened to Diana's voice too? She sang very high for a long time and the deterioration of her voice was unmistakable. I first noticed it in 1976/77
LoveTheSupremes 2 years ago
That "IS" what happened to Diane's voice! That and the lack of proper taking care of her voice, or her 'self'. The voice is always the first thing to go when you are wearing yourself down in a sort of way.
Jean's Voice is still very much alive! I heard a live show of hers recently, and could NOT stop listening to her! She ROCKS!!!! But Yeah, that IS what happened to Diane's voice too. It's just something that happens to some 'high' voices.
stage7 2 years ago
No way that is Mary alright. Listen to Buttered Popcorn, that features Flo on lead. Flo's vocal style was completely different. Flo tended to sing lead on the uptempo raucous songs like Hey Baby and Buttered Popcorn and Ain't That Good News (from their tribute album to Sam Cooke)
JonathanLGardner 4 years ago
It's a big duh to me. It's Mary. Saw her recently at Sunset Junction in Silverlake-Los Angeles, Calif (8-2009) She was ok. The band sounded better than she did
LoveTheSupremes 2 years ago 2
LoveTheSupremes
The band was better than she was when you saw Mary? Yeah, that's sort of like when Diane appears live and "croaks" behind a great band and her phony "Supremes" who are singing louder than she is and singing all the high parts for her! I guess you never thought of that, did you? Diane's concerts are all illusion.........at least you can hear Mary sing!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Yeah but you wish you hadn't. You know you've seen Ross live. How do you know that happens at her concerts; spies.? Yes, Ross' female (sometimes male) backing does sing the high notes with her. Touring is a grind on someone her age. Her voice is not as pliable. She utilizes the support. Mary Mary a gospel group who can out sing most folk do the same thing on tour; use singers for support. Perhaps Mary should do the same. Ross hoarse and tired is still better than Mary. I have seen both!
missbirdsong 2 years ago
you are so right ms birdsong..even a hoarse ross sounds better than fat mary on her Best days. mary wilson can not never could sing. flo did have a decent voice but not unique. mary is like otis williams in the tempts..just a back up singer and filler. no real talent to stand on her own. even this song sounds harsh and sounds like an old marvelettes song that they sang only because they were told to do so. its awful.
blkshepherd 2 years ago
Yes, you can hear Mary sing, but you wish you hadn't!
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, Weren't you the one who said that you are a fan of ALL the ladies of the legendary trio? I am the one that called you a RAASAF. From your comments on this site, who is right? I rest my case......... and besides that, you should be ashamed of yourself!!!!!!!!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
HurtSupreme, I can be a fan and still see the truth. Diana sings flat sometimes too. Flo drank. Mary lies. That doesn't mean I am not a fan. It means I am somewhat objective about them. You just called Diana's concerts all illusion and I can't have an opinion about Mary's? Hello Kettle, your name must be pot! Whenare we gonna go see "Diane" together, huh?
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap. Also, Diane was never a beauty in the classic sense and her voice today is in serious deterioration; however, you are NEVER the FIRST one to say that! But, let there be a negative thing to say about Mary or Flo and BOY..............you're right there to throw the first stone! I don't call that OBJECTIVE! Don't call me the "pot" because you are certainly the "kettle," smarty!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap
...........and another thing! OBJECTIVE? You give Cindy a free ride on everything! Yes, Cindy is sweet and gracious..........I love her, too; however, she did not contribute to the group vocally, and she is not part of the legendary lineup. She is one of my favorite "knock-off Supremes." I love her as much if not more as a BLUEBELLE! So once again, YOU are the "kettle" telling the "pot" that it is "dirty," not ME!!!!!!!!!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Yes, I am objective. I don't give Cindy a free pass. I am not the hall monitor that you seem to think you are! Cindy has not done anything but contribute to the legacy of the legend that is the Sups. She may have done her original group some dirt. I am aware of that. I defend the unfair things said about Ross in the myriad. Yes, her rep is well earned. Flo is often deified here on these sites. She is all victim to most. I disagree. Cindy's voice was best utilized in the Jean T version
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap,
When you say that Diane's reputation is well earned, I am assuming that you are referring to her reputation as a "wicked witch!!!" I agree that Flo is often deified on these sites; however, look at how some of these people go on and on about Diane! Talk about deification! She''ll be croaking some song in that same old red dress and these people will be fawning all over her like she can actually sing calling her a goddess. Then, when I call them on it, they want to kill me!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
I would take in consideration the body of stuff I'd written about Ross on this thread. I have cited her grandiosity, her selfishness, her lack of honesty in her bio, and on. I am one of the more objective people on this site and you MUSt know that! I am not of Ross worshipper nor a Flo deist nor a blind follower of Mary's hyped up talent. Cindy has never slung mud so I don't sling any at her.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, I do correspond with you and Doolie for the reasons that you stated; however, I do find that you are particularly hard on Mary. The "hyped up talent" to which you refer is actually homage to the fact that she is one of the founding and surviving members of a legendary trio. So great is the legacy of The Supremes that the lead singer and (to a lesser extent) a background singer with limited lead appeal have both been able to sustain (and in Diane's case extend) their careers.
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
HurtSupreme, Okay, I agree I AM hard on Mary because she tells so MANY half truths and lies. I find that hard to swallow. I tend to lash out at Mary fans when they demean the talent and stardom of Ross. It is possible to have a preference without casting stones at either. I love Mary for her part in the Sups. She was a big part of the Visual appeal of the orig trio. I did not come to appreciate her vocals until the 70's. I thinkl her smokey alto had more appeal than Flo's voice, CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
I preferred Mary's approach to her solos. Flo always sounded a little nervous to me. I disagree that DR's voice is in serious decline. She is not hitting her high notes and her voice has aged. It is very typical with soprano voices from pop to opera. DR used the backdrop of the SUPs to create a career beyond them. Mary has extended her career. I disagree with the premise your present. I try to be fair. I merely responded to your dig at DR with a real dig at MW. DRearned rep in 2 ways...
missbirdsong 2 years ago
The hard working perfectionist, talented, diva and the so-called bitch and the imperious and grandiose woman with a rep for generosity are all deserved by her. She is not a monolith. What some forget is that DR had to prove to Flo and Mary that she was able to lead and be a singer of renknown despite their doubts and envy. I think she eventually rubbed it in their faces via her rel. with BG. It was wrong.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
DR wanted the fame more than she wanted friendships, ties to Detroit, etc. It was her decision. Mary and Flo wanted to have the dream and the dram became a business. Ross was abused by BG. She wrote it in her book. She was used by him and she used him too.I guess in her mind the end justified the means. Flo wand Mary got in the way and got hurt. I recently read The Lost Supreme (yesterday). I did give me more insight into Flo's life. I have more love for her now but I find that CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
She didn't tell the whole truth about herself. She did not really see her own contributions to her fall. BG did do Flo dirt BUT while it was good for them they rode it to the hilt. I say to Mary after DR left: Welcome to Martha and Gladys' world, honey. Now you know how they felt. Even though neither of them could have done what the SUPS did at the time they did it. Flo had some mental health issues tha were magnified by how she was treated not CREATED. BG and DR contributed to that.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, Thank you for your honesty and I do not take issue with much of what you say; however, your reason for being so hard on Mary is the same reason why I am so hard on Diane. Just as you try to maintain "balance" by being hard on Mary with the Supremes fans, I am doing the same thing with the RAASAFs. I do not feel that Mary is any less trutfhul than Diane and for me, Diane's voice IS gone.....the voice that I fell in love with is no more! You call it mature...I call it "shot!"
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Well Hurt, of COURSE the voice that you fell in love with is not the same. She still sounds like herself. I have heard her recently in concert and on her I love YOu CD. Her highest notes don't appear to be there but she came to fame singing in her mid and lower range which is still very much alive. Only her work with A&S brought out her highest register. As for MW to wite a basic expose and then pretend not to know why Ross would be angry is detestable! It is a HIDDEOUS lie. CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Then to go around and continue to make statements of half truths and outright lies connected to her history with her "sister" is pathologically wicked. I find her actions reprehensible. No, Diana has not been honest about her actions during the SUPS heyday, fact. I think she is not willing to objectively examine her actions from then. I think it'll cause a crisis of identitiy for her; she needs to though.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, I ask you this question in earnest: Why are Mary's actions described as "reprehensible and pathological" while Diane's are excused because it will cause an "identity crisis" for her to take responsibility for her actions? As for Diane's voice, the change goes beyond the loss of her higher range. Her voice is thicker, huskier, and also a bit hoarse sounding even in the lower range which is the more familiar.
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Because Diana did what she did as a young ambitious and emotionally immature woman under the influence of an abusive svwengali like lover-starmaker. I think what she did then was evident of a flaw in character, def. Mary was a woman who had lived, experienced life and made a grown woman's choice to sell her friendship for a buck. A friend who'd helped her when she was in need. I don't EXCUSE DIana's actions. I make a diff between a 23 year old woman and a 40 year old woman. MW was 40. I have
missbirdsong 2 years ago
maintained all along that all three women had head issues. Ross not being able/willing to be honest is also a character flaw. MW cries abo
ut feeling betrayed and then does just that in her book! What a big hypocrite. She told DR in her dressing room; "Well Diane, nobody wants to read a book about me." Her mess was calculated and about the dough. Ross made a calculation too but an emotional one in my view. MW&FB both said they didn't view D's actions as mean spirited but selfish
missbirdsong 2 years ago
She still sounds like herself to me just older. I wonder how you know so much about her vocal changes not having seen her? Her records don't relect what you can hear in her live performances. She is only really hoarse sounding on tour. Touring is very taxing on the voice period; let alone ona senior citizen.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap. I do enjoy hearing your views.......they are interesting insights. The reason why I'm easier on Mary is because, in my view, all she had was the Supremes' legacy and she capitalizied on it with her book. The part of Mary that I didn't understand was when she sold the "Dreamgirl" movie rights to Motown knowing that the movie would never be made because they offered the most money. I've never gotten over that. On one hand, I understand that she wanted the money....but still!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, As for Diane's voice, I am as familiar with it as her most ardent RAASAF. Yes, it is true that I haven't seen her live since 1968 when she appeared at the Baltimore Civic Center with Mary and Cindy; however, I have followed her solo career, watched her televsion appearances as well as listened to her CDs.. Some of her solo recordings in the 70's and 80's were wonderful! I will admit that I still love to listen to "When You Tell Me That You Love Me." That is one of the few cont
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
solo efforts that she recorded that are awe inspiring. I listen very carefully to her voice to reach the conclusions that I have shared. I know that voice and I have a good enough ear to know that it isn't what is was; however, the biggest thing for me is all the hype about Diane! I feel that I must me critical of her in order to balance the fawning and worshiping of her fans. Diane is not loyal to the Supremes........only her own legacy. contd
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap You claim to have been there for the original lineup of the legendary trio. If you were, you know that they were pretty much "it!" in a way that these RAASAFs will never know even though they think they do! The way that they percieve the trio is way out of line with the reality of how it was. I can't stand how the "RAASA" legacy has disorted the legacy of the Supremes and I will continue to be "Christopher Columbus" telling people who feel the world is flat that it is round!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
missbirdcrap
Do you think that blkshepherd, Crud, Oceanbound and the rest of the RAASAFs have the first clue of how great The Supremes actually were? That's what I'm up against and I will continue to fight the good fight. Unfortunately, it will take Diane's death and probably another 10 years after that for the dust to settle and for history to vindicate itself. By that time, we'll probably be dead (maybe even before Diane). Diane will be remembered first as the lead singer of The Supremes!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Anyone who says that Diana Ross WAS the Supremes just doesn't know. There are those who viewed it that way; BG did, of course. Fans always have their fave. Flo fans believe she had a phenom voice and could have taken the SUPS even higher. Mary fans think she was as talented as Ross and should have beene the lead and has gotten bad breaks for 40 years..Generationally some will always remeber her best as the lead singer of the Sups. To the next generation she wil be remebered as a solo CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
singer who stepped on her friends to get to the top. To younger urban kids she will be the star of the Wiz and best friend of Michael Jackson.
Incidentally, your words, husky, thicker and hoarse are exact matches for a review I read of her last CD 2 years ago. Did you write it?
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Yes, the Supremes were IT! No other girl group possessed their aura or stage presence or hits. They were a phenom. Flo's regal appearance, Mary's beauty and Diana's presence and expressive facial moves and voice. HOT! Do you remember that Mary had this habit of singing out of the side of her mouth. It was cute/funny. Kind of a sexy thing she picked up from some old chantuesse she saw somewhere. Mary was bar far the best dancer of all; Flo really couldn't dance and DIana's dancing was CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
a little geeky. The best eg of this is on a vid of them performing Love...Itchin' on Sullivan in those yellow gowns with the floating panels. Mary is DOING the moves, Flo is doing her best and Diana is boppin up and down like a geek. FUNNY! At the point where there's the break in vocals Diana goes back to the girls and they are supposed to just dance. Mary is working and Flo and does a 2 step. Diana is yelling "Go Mary" and Mary rolls her eyes. Please tell me you've seen this! Yes.."IT!"
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Hurt, darling, Mary did just what she claimed DR did. Mary used the SUPS as a backdrop for her financial security just like Diana did. HOw then does she stand in judgement. This is what frustratees me about people who defend what Mary did. I think Mary always envied the assertive, fearless aspect of her friend's nature and benefitted from it via the group. When DR went for HERS apart from F&M she got hurt and resentful. When she woke up she was too old to do somerthing else. Showbiz is all
missbirdsong 2 years ago
about youth. Her book was apayback. You know what they sa about it too!
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, Yes, the Ed Sullivan "Love is Like an Itchin'......" clip is a classic! I guess the reason why I tend to be on Mary's side most of the time, despite the fact that she can be as greedy as Diane, is because her actions usually involve protecting the Supremes' legacy (at least on the surface) while Diane is out there taking care of Miss "Ross." In actuality, Mary is doing the same thing; however, it is under the guise of the The Supremes' legacy. No I didn't read Diane's CD cont
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap,
review. As far as I am concerned, that description of her voice as being " thick, husky, and hoarse" is my own evaluation. Apparently, others share my views. It kills me on some of these sites where Diane is croaking some song and the RAASAFs are fawning all over her saying that she is a goddess and how great her voice sounds! I just stand in AMAZEMENT! What is with these people?
They're possessed by some demon!!!!!!!!!!! Aren't they hearing the same thing that I am hearing?
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Glad that you can see Mary is really taking care of Mary nder the guise of the Supremes' legacy. The music and the impact they made takes care of the legacy. Another 2 generations will have to pass before someone needs to remind folks of the Supremes. Ross has always been just who she is in that regard. Joining the group was a way to acheive what she eventually did. I qam sure she grew to love her group mates but she was gonna BE a star, the SUPS were the first thing leaving the station.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Yes, others share your view. The review did not deman her voice he just acknowledged that it has aged and matured some. He didn't like the waver she now has on her light notes on the fade; really evident on "I've Got a Crush with Rod Stewart. Diana and Mary are more alike than they know I'd bet. Diana is merely more assertive and a go-getter. I think Mary wants to be perceived a nice and so doesn't initially do what she really wanted to do so creates a false reason for her actions. CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Refusing to do the RTL concert when she simply didn't want to sing background anymore is a good example. She then goes on TV and claims DR was greedy and wouldn't divided the money equally. Criticizing DR for having tow actual SUPS when she's been touring for years with two fake SUPS, another eg. I DO OT think DR should have carried on without M&C but Mary's smokescreendidn't blind me or others who can see through her envy inspired actions. Love them both & wish they could be better friends
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, The Ribowsky book summed it up well when he basically said that Mary has her territory and Diane has hers. I blame Diane for the failure of that tour because she should have known that the public would never have allowed that to go with two phony Supremes. She should also have known that Mary would get the sympathy vote when she ran to the press which is exactly what happened. I wouldn't be willing to stand like a "flag pole" behind Diane, either! I don't blame Mary for that!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap I like Mary; however, I have found that she is moody and I don't always get the feeling that she is particularly genuine. I've been out to dinner with her and had a wonderful time. The next time I would see her she would be minimally available. I don't like that...........treat me in a consistent manner! As one of what she calls the "A" fans in her book, I expect more! I've gotten the attention and the validation from her many times; however, she can also be very aloof!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
HurtSupreme,
You are right about Mary. I know that for a fact. One time she'll be friendly, making plans for shopping with you and then she'll cancel and not take calls. True. I once sent her a gift via mail. A very thoughtful gesture , I felt. She had some assistant send a note that said: "I am in receipt of your parcel." Aloof and impersonal. We had met several times. She was very flirty and funny. I loved meeting her initially. She was like hot and cold water. I still love Mary.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Hurt,
I told her I was one of her biggest fans. My friend who was there said I WAS the SUPS biggest. She laughed and said "I don't know about that.." She then gave me a couple of tests to ascertain my level of knowledge. It was cute. She is very pretty (at least then) she looks kind of mawkish now. Pretty in a plastic surgery kind of way. I knew her friendliness was because I was a fan. It felt like that to me. I think the note was a way to say to me: "This far and no more."
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, In some ways, I understand why Mary has to put up those barriers. There is only so much of her and everyone wants a piece of her! This is her job........she has good days and bad ones just like the rest of us! If she didn't define limits. there woulld be nothing left of her......she would be consumed. As for the RTL tour: it is my recollection that the show was staged and produced by the time that Mary was contacted. Her only input was to either accept or reject the money!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
I also understand that. Despite that the note was still very, very cool. Not nice. Your point about the show being staged and produced is half correct. Mary was contacted by Diana months before the money offer was made. At that point nothing was in stone. She was miffed at that point that Diana hadn't called her sooner. Diana needed to make sure that she could get real backing so that is why she didn't call. The rumor of the so-called reunion was leaked inorder to ascertain public CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
interest. DR contoacted MW 2x by phone and talked w/ her. A poll was taken by production & CB had better name recog than MW. Mary delayed and lost out 4 mil was the offer. DR said all M had to do was "show up". She meant in regard to the $ NOT the planning of the show. DR ws making the point that MW didn't have to pay for anyting connected to the cost of the show and DR DID. I don't think she wanted M to be a flag pole again. MW wanted to correct a wrong w/ RTL $ that was illogical.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap,
You and I both know that the RTL was, from the "git," a "Diana Ross" show. It was never conceived as a SUPREMES reunion in the true sense. The whole second half of the show was Diane and her RAASA material! Maybe Diane didn't expect Mary to be a "flagpole;" however, Sherrie and Lynda sure were! Why do you think it would have been any different for Mary? I know it, YOU know it, and MARY knew it, too! THAT's why she wanted no part of it! When she aquiesced, it was too late!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbircrap I meant to say, "acquiesced." I swear that this keyboard just skips letters...........does yours?
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
good enough for her she shoulda said so from the start. Why complain that D didn't call her early enough, Why claim the money wasn't right, etc. THAT's what I mean about her. She is a LIAR and a vain glorious person. She is either very dumb or very deluded to think she should have gotten the same money or that the same demand would be there for her to do anything but sing her old Supremes parts or 70's leads. Only diehard fans (us) cares what Mary sings or where. Sad but rue, YOU know that!
missbirdsong 2 years ago
On the other hand Ross should have dropped the whole idea when Mary and Cindy were not available. She coulda paid Cindy to be on the tour and do some duet something or other jsut for PR purposes and leave MW to stew at home. Maybe you all are right that Ross never really wanted to work with Mary again. The risks for DR wld be very risky. Another backstage book may have been the outcome. RTL is dead and a reunion is too. My computer doesn't skip keys but my finders DO!
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, For all the reasons mentioned, Mary thought that she was getting a bum deal. Mary also holds a "trump" card (the legacy of the original Supremes). We can say what we want about what Mary should or should not have done; however, it was Diane and the promoters who were shortsighted to not recognize Mary's power with the press AND her willingness to use it against the tour. For that, Diane got what she deserved! Does Diane actually believe that SHE is The Supremes? She isn't!!!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
If "Diane" thought she WAS the Supremes she would not have contacted Mary personally. Diana did underestimate Mary's lack of real willingness to do the tour. You and Mary contradict yourselves. Mary says the money was not good (bum deal) What would have made it okay, MORE money?! If it was never about the money I STILL say she shoulda just SAID SO.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap, The fact that Diane even considered going out with the "phony" Supremes proved that she thought that she WAS The Supremes......what else could she have been thinking? As for Mary, there were two forms of recognition: the money and artistic control in the tour. Since Mary learned t hat shewasn't getting any artistic control, she wanted more money. When she realized that the last amount she was offered was the final offer, she eventally acquiesced....it was too late!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Missbircrap, Who said it was too late, Diane or the promoters? It's hard to imagine that the promoters would have said "no" to Mary if Diane wanted her! Add the fact that Sheriie and Lynda were already in place and you can make your own conclusion: Diane DIDN'T want Mary there!!!!!!! It was a huge miscalculation on Diane's part! Diane controls the "Diana Ross" part; however, Mary STILL has power when it comes to "and The Supremes!
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
Yeah you are right abaout the Supremes part and Mary's control. Yet your explanation explains that Mary is shallow IMO. She claimed that she refused to do the RTL tour because of the inequity of the money! The artisitc control issue was secondary. Scherrie was already in place to provide supportive voice for Mary and Cindy. She was already a part. Diana went to see the FLOS and decided to bring aboard Lynda. DR thought real SUPS were necc so she hires S&L. I agree wrong estimated MW
missbirdsong 2 years ago
It could be entirely true that Diana didn't want Mary. I certainly couldn't blame her. If that was true then no tour should have been discusses, period. It couldn't happen w/out MW. I agree 100% with that. I see what FB said aboaut MW though. DR will tell you up front about her intentions; MW is duplicitous. Not Flo's exact words but it is waht she meant. This is a good example of that, IMO. I think these 2 women need to sit and talk honestly with an unbiased party. I wish they would
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Missbirdcrap Mary did acknowledge that it wasn't just the money in Jet Magazine. She said that when Diane said that "all she had to do was to show up" was what angered her the most! Mary may be duplicitous; however, Diane is not always forthcoming with the truth! They both lie! Each one is supporting their own cause and their own vantage point of The supremes. BTW, isn't nice to talk on this site without all the crazies interrupting us?
It's just a matter of time before they discover us.
kurtsupreme 2 years ago
NO, Sherrie and LYnda were not "flagpoles" each of them had solo numbers (whole numbers of extended time). I believe Mary would have received a different consideration. She was a lynchpin in the gig. If she wanted no part of it why bitch about it? Why delay in saying just that? Why drag out her answer? Why run to the media and complain about? You're right it was never even supposed to be a SUPS reunion show. It was to be a segment in the Ross tour with "real SUPS". If that wasn't CONTD
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Hurt, NOR WOULD I but my point is why did she not just refuse. She HAD to know that Diana would not have wanted to share the stage completely with her. She should have been shrewd and negotiated something she could live with. She could have negotiated the reunion to be the SUPS reunion and not the reunion of DR & The SUPS. I hold these two women responsible. Mary waited until it was too late for the promoters and the offer was withdrawn.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Its Mary
MotownMaster 3 years ago 2
Baby Don't Go is MARY WILSON, not Florence.
missbirdsong 2 years ago
Hope everyone enjoys this post love this song
noname2342002 4 years ago
Dude you don't have to educate me about the Supremes--I'm 56 yrs. old, and unlike you, was around when this stuff was coming out new and saw them perform live more than a dozen times...Also, at this early stage of their careers Florence and Diane swapped off on singing leads, NOT Mary, --name me one other song Mary recorded the lead on prior to 1966...
billyfcollins 4 years ago
THIS IS MARY!
Age is NOT a factor in this. I am not looking to pick a fight, just stating the FACTS go on WIKIPEDIA it will tell you, ask DIANA herself, that is NOT Flo's voice. Please listen to Buttered Popcorn if you haven't already, and you will hear how FLO sounds as this is Mary in this video
JonathanLGardner 4 years ago 3
Sunset with Diane on Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop, and the first verse on It Makes No Difference Now, Our Day Will Come recorded April 1965, She is the dominating voice on I Idolize You from 1963, Mary sings lead on this, and The Tears
MotownMaster 3 years ago 4