i saw ten years worth of head wounds. i neaver had any diffuculty knowning if the wound was an exit or entrance. its just not rocket science. kennedy had a flap of skin containing a entrance woound carved away with knife and a white wax skull piece layed in for pictures. it stinks to high heven, and the man that took the pictures is dead. gunshot wound to the head.
The fact that some people believe there was conspiracy is ok to me, after all I believed so myself 2 years ago. But that those people say that Oswald shooting Kennedy is IMPOSSIBLE, is denying a normal possibility. So many myths yet debunked are still around.
@captainkavern Let's take the Zapruder film. First some people Cters said the gvt was hiding it because it revealed the conspiracy. Then when it was available and clearly did not reveal any conspiracy people started to say it was fake or edited. Yet the motion back and to the left is the proof there was a shot from the front. the problem with that is there is no exit wound in the back on his head , despite what some doctors who never examined the back of JFK head said.
@captainkavern can someone explain me why that exit wound in the back of the head is not there (as the autopsy photos confirm). Can someone explain also why JFK's head moves forward first before his body goes backward? Because he was shot from the back of course...But no! The autopsy photos are fake, the zapruder film is fake (when it helps you), the X-rays are fake...that is the only argument I hear , Fake , Impossible, always denying the obvious. or at least you could say "could be"...but no
@captainkavern What you saw was the exit wound. If you have ever shot a gun you would know the entrance wound is always about the size of the bullet its self, the exit wound is always multiple times larger. My only explanation is that the shot came from behind, and as he fell forward the car suddenly breaked causing him to go back into his seat.
@November10th1775USMC God I've dealth with this subject to death. The exit wound is larger IF AND ONLY IF the entrance is a soft entry point like shooting somebody in the back or stomach. The human skull is the hardest organic substance in nature look it up on wikipedia. Have you ever shot at a brick and seen a larger exit wound??? This was NOT an armor piercing round though it might have been hollow point.
@PabloPena108 The problem is most of the conspiracy fans claimed that there was an exit wound at the back of the head of the president. The Zapruder film and the autopsy photos shows that the back of the head remain intact .(Almost if you consider there was an entrance wound) Well if checking facts on wikipedia makes you feel like an balistic expert ...you are in trouble my friend...
@PabloPena108 Obviously you have not dealt with this subject, a average speed moving baseball bat could crack a human skull, it is not as strong as you think. And deffinatly not the hardest organic substance in nature, bone is very fragile when contacted with a peice of solid steel moving faster twice the speed of sound.
@November10th1775USMC It's not about how TOUGH a human skull is it's about how HARD. A diamond is the hardest substance on earth but it's really not that tough. The human skull is quite hard and not a "soft entry point"
@PabloPena108 The Human skull is a very soft entry point, Its thinner than any other human bone and carries the same density. Like I said the collision speed that bullets present are more than enough to enter a human skull and go out the other end. Look at JFK autopsy pictures and diagrams, the bullet hit the upper back of the skull, exiting the upper front a few inches away from the entrance wound. The energy blast of the bullet ripped the few inches of skull and brain in the way.
@captainkavern WTF?? The Govt WAS using its influence to supress the Zapruder film. And then you have the gall to say "did not reveal conspiracy". Are you on acid or something? Did you NOT see the final head shot? The only reason we are even here is because of that film which is what convinces 75 % of the populace that the final head shot came from the front. As far sa why the Gov't "let" the Z film get released well they can only influence they can't dictate.
@PabloPena108 If I get you, the conspiracy which was powerful enough to kill the president, kill the "pasty " so he cannot talk, kill dozens of witnesses so they cannot talk, destroy many evidences, disinformed the hole country, made photos, films of the event disappear...that conspiracy was not able to get rid of the Zapruder film? hmmmm....and what do you say to all those conspiracists who think the Zapruder film is a fake?
These people are so stupid. It's just amazing this country still runs. They actually believe Kennedy's head movement is indicated of a REAR shot, they discount the TOP acoustic physicsts on earth, they say Oswald did it and can come up with no motive, nitrate tests for his cheeks were negative and there is not even an ATTEMPT in the whole of the WC to explain Kennedys strange head movement in the Z film. Meanwhile they DID include Jack Ruby's Mother's dental records. Pfft.
@PabloPena108 The TOP accoustic on earth? why not in the galaxy? Who are they? what is their name? If they were right the conspiracy would have been proved. is this the case? No. No sound of the assassination has EVER been recorded. The HSC recording was taken minuts after the assassination. So your expert no matter how good they are could not study a sound that has never been recorded...
@captainkavern The firm is BBN (Bolt, beranack & Newman) and both they and Queens college did the acoustic analysis of the police dictabelt. I'm not unfamiiar with it because I worked for Bell Labs in Acoustics physics research as well. The recordings indicate putative gunshots AT the time of the assassination and not 1 minute afterwards. The "Scientists" at the NRC panel were completley wrong in their analysis and given they work for the Gov't conflict of interest as well.
captainkavern - why did so many witnesses say that were aware of ono or more shots were fired from the grassy knoll? oswald was at best a "medium" shot in the marine corp . even some of his contemporaries in the corp said he had "maggies drawers" which meant he was a horrible shot. also . why were there no fingerprints on riffle that lho used? nitrate tests were done and it was proven that lho never even fired a rifle that day.
@greggie0707 "was at best a medium shot" is a line directely taken from the movie JFK.
The problem is that is simply not true. His shooting record shows that he scored 2 points above the level to be a sharpshooter. And the target was 200 yards away (Kennedy was 88 yards away). So he was good shooter , not an expert , but a good shooter. It is true that he became less good toward the end of his marine days but. he was not a poor shot. A was above the average marine shot.
there were 178 witnesses on dealey plaza that day. 80.8% heard 3 shots.10.5% heard 1 or 2 shots. 8.7 heard 4 or more shots. 53.8% heard shots from the depository. 33.7 heard shots from the grassy knoll. 4.8% heard shots from both directions and 7% heard shots from various other origins. Youu can't deny that statisticaly speaking, the most propbable thing is that there were 3 shots fired from the depository.
The nitrate test is not reliable, he was tested 2 times , one test was negative and the other positve. Anyway the nitrate test is so unreliable that it has absolutely no value in court of law ...
hello captainkavern , if oswald was the lone assassin , why didn't he shoot jfk coming up houston st? it would have been a frontal shot. even if oswald had missed he probably could have had more shots to fire at jfk. secondly , it was a clear shot , no trees etc. it never made any sense to me that lho would have tried to shoot jfk while he was going away from lho and not towards him.
Houston street would have been a bad idea. first because at that time the morcade, the secret service everyone is looking toward him, they would just have to look up to spot him. firing when they are on elm has the advantage of making him hard to spot because evrybody is turning his bak on him , looking at the president.
@greggie0707 shooting on houston street has another major problem. Oswald would have had to shoot a target aproching from him. the closer it comes the faster the angle changes making it more and more difficult to keep it in the telescopic lense. On the contrary, on Elm street the limo going away, the angle change less making it move slower in the scope. Easier shot. and safer because people have to turn and figure out where it comes from. Leaving time to escape.
@captainkavern Sorry this is my last comment...but if you are seriously saying it would be easier to hit a vehicle moving away than coming toward you...I'm at a loss for words.
What you are saying about the angle is nonsense. On Houston St. he would not have needed to lead the target much at all compared to Elm. And shooter error increases exponentially with distance. That's why it would be better to shoot something moving toward you because your error is decreasing.
I will not try to make response to that...maybe you shouldn't have skipped your physics and optic class because at this point there is nothing I can do for you...and are you sure you ever used a rifle to shoot a moving target? Well anyway...
Now that we all have the proof that you know nothing about optics , will you say that my other aguments about why he didn't shoot on Houston street don't make sense?
In the JFK murder, any reference to the lone nut comes soley from outside sources and never once were eyes on Oswald during his "real kookiness" now if all it takes today to convict a man is the desire to do so and the willingness to entertain hearsay &perjury ; then our justice system is completely fucked up!
@captainkavern Yeah and the bullet was in nearly pristine condition. The average weight for that kind of round was approx 165 grains, CE399 Weiged in at 156 grains. The ONLY way the U.S. Army was able to get that LITTLE damage was by shooting into cotton wadding, a SINGLE impact point. If you want to call cotton wadding "an impact point",lol
Kevin Costner did an outstanding job in JFK, but I think Powers Booth looks a lot more like the real Garrison and would have done an outstanding job as well, but he wouldn't have attracted the audience of Costner.
to captainkavern , if you have never heard of the "magic bullet theory" please look it up. no bullet ever being shot downwards goes up then pauses mid air while making a u-turn. also , a bullet is never going to go through dense bones and come out of the body in almost perfect condition.
Yes of course I know the magic bullet theory. But it has been debunked a long time ago and very easily. The Magic bullet theory is one of the many theory based on completely wrong facts.
@captainkavern there had to be more shots fired man. the warren comission is wrong. i don't normally go for conspiracies but in this case there was one. I believe jfk was killed because he was going to pull out our advisors in vietnam by the end of 1965. that's if he got re-elected(which he probably would have). war is big business. look up nsam #263. it explains jfk's desire to have no part in vietnam.
a total of 7 wounds for the president and connally.
Connaly: 1 in the right back, 1 below the right nipple, 1 in the right whrist, 1 in the right leg. Kennedy: 1 in the back ,1 in the throat, 1 in the head.(in fact 2 in the head if you consider the entrance wound in the back of the skull and the exit wound on the right)
My guess is that like many Cters you based your conclusions on the movie JFK wich full of mistakes involuntary or not. for that you should search on google: "oliver stone's jfk: the JFK 100" you will see how incorrect or unfair is the movie about the facts or the record.
The magic Bullet theory has been debunked easily a long time ago. Jim garrison (and oliver stone) made a major mistake in their demonstration: Connaly is misplaced. The say is torso was not turned and that he was seating exactely in front of the president. Wich is absolutely wrong. Connaly was sitting on a jumpseat lower and more inside the limo. plus his torso was turned to his right. So of course if you turn Connaly's torso face forward the wound wound match...
Oliver stone and Garrison say that the magic bullet stay in mid air . Of course the imply Connaly and JFK are not hit by the same bullet. The probleme with that is that if you watch accurately the zapruder film you will see that JFK and Connaly react at the same time. You will see that you can clearly see connaly's jacket pushed forward (the exit wound below the right nipple). Therefore you have to admit that the bullet came from behind. And JFK was in the way...
Plus it is obvious that a bullet aimed at to men sitting in front of the other, fired from a bolt action rifle from 88 yards will go through both men that is a certainty. That would create at least 4 wounds (entry and exit for both men). Connaly's whrist was in the way it wast struck. (and by the way Connaly kept his stetson in his right hand until they reached the hospital). When the bullet came out from Connaly's chest it was rolling and tumbling and losing speed...
That's why it ended up making u superficial wound in his right leg.... And by the way the bullet found in parkland was not pristine. It and been fired . The fact that it met almost no bones explain why it not very damaged.
@greggie0707 to finish with the magic bullet you have to understand, that it took 6 to 7 minutes for the limousine to reach parkland hospital after the shooting. At the time of the shoot Nobody can really know what is going to happen, how the people will react in the limo, if connaly is dead or not. That would mean that the conspiracy guys would have 6 to 7 minutes to figure out a plan that would match what happen in the limo...unlikely....
According to Oliver Stone (who has voluntered to go to Vietnam and was shocked by what he saw there) the Vietnam war is the very reason JFK was killed. In other words: if JFK was not killed the Vietnam war would not have happened. We can't know for sure. But the record show that JFK at the time of his death had no intention to withdraw from vietnam.
in the openning of the movie JFK we can see The president interviewed by walter cronkite in sept 63 . JFK said "It's their war , they have to win it or lose it". Sure but that is taken out of context. you can watch the complete interview here on youtube "Cronkite Interview of JFK " he finishes the interview with those words "I don't agree with those who say we sould withdraw, that would be a terrible mistake".
Another interview that same month for ABC "OUTTAKES FROM AN NBC-TV INTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT KENNEDY ON SEPT. 9, 1963 " the vietnam part starts at 3:50 . At 4:51 the reporter asks JFK "are we likely to reduce our aid to south vietnam?" I let you listen to JFK answer wich is very clear .
@greggie0707 The very morning of his death JFK was delivering a speech in fort worth.
JFK IN FORT WORTH, TEXAS, ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963 (PART 5) listen at 3:44 to 4:53 tell me if those are the word of a president who wanted to withdraw from Vietnam...
Bobby Kennedy (who was a supporter of the war until the and of 1966) said in an interview in 1964 with John Bartlow Martin when asked "There was never any consideration given to pulling out?" Bobby 's anwer couldn't more clear he said "No".
During the 1968 presidential campaign Bobby Kennedy admitted he and the JFK administration shared some responsabilities in the Vietnam war involvment of USA...
@greggie0707 ok now, let's talk about memorendum nsam 263.
What does it say? : basicly it says that if the situation goes well in Vietnam and Diem regime seems to handle it we can withdraw 1000 troops there by 1965 . JFK wanted no announcement until the end of 63. This was before the Diem coup. As we know the situation did not get better so Kennedy woild have been foolish to announce a troop withdrawal, it would have been a defeat before a year of reelection...
Kennedy was disappointed by the Diem regime and he supported the coup against him in early november. Even if he regretted he was assinated. When Johnson became president he kept the exact same defense staff as the Kennedy administration. Mc Namara, Rusk etc..it just happened that the situation became completely different in vietman by the meantime. Under JFK's administration Vietnam was a problem it became a major problem under Johnson.
There is something you must understand Kennedy was fiercely anticommunist . He believed in the domino theory and was sure that to lose Vietnam would mean losing all the asia to communists (you can watch him tell that himsel in the abc interview I mentionned you before.) So JFK died before being more impopular with that war.
In conclusion I will say this: For a movie (and a director) evrything has to make sense. Kennedy 's death MUST have been made ma great evil power. But we all know that almost every US president had an assassination attempt. Only 4 succeded. each time it was made by a crazy fuck anarchist or disturbed political wacko. Kennedy 's death changed NOTHING in US politics. But for sentimal tal reasons people need to think there must be a big reason...
Kennedy died because he was killed by Lee HArvey Oswald who was a communist disturbed man harrassed by the fbi sinced he came back from russia, and very distisfied with his life (professionaly and sentimentaly). He found out on the 21st of november that he had an opportunity. He took it and he succeded. Sad, pathetic, but true...nothing more.
@captainkavern And yet he denied shooting anybody until he himself was silenced. Look at other presidential assassins and attempted assassins, they all take want credit and confess.
Plus they have to explain why Oswald, a supposed communist, would want to kill JFK who was making peace with the USSR and Cuba -- that makes zero sense. But the plotters knew it sure would turn blind public rage against communists (thus enabling the cold war and Vietnam to continue).
@RWT683 the fact he was denying doesn't mean he was telling the truth. I think we can agree on that. He could be lying he could tell the truth. what make this assassination different from all the others , is that the murderer was not in direct contact with the victim. Nobody could really see the killer. In the other cases they couldn't deny, they were caught on the spot. Kennedy's killer was not.
The record show that oswald lied many times while in custody in the police station.
He lied about the curtain rods, he first said to the press he was arrested because he lived in the soviet union, (he was arrested for the tippit murder) , he gave 2 differents versions of what he was doing at the time of JFK 's murder. He never sad, his brother, his mother (who believed he was innocent), his wife, he was innocent.
@captainkavern What "record" are you referring to? There is no record of Oswald's interrogation. Funny how he shoots the president but the police don't seem to think recording his interrogation is important.
He said he was arrested because he lived in the USSR, not that he was charged with living there (which was not a crime). He knew he was charged with the Tippit murder.
Oswald had no motive to kill JFK, he had no opportunity to kill JFK, and he had no means to kill JFK.
Oswald was a communist. he said it 2 times in interviews in the summer before the assassination. To believe this was fake is complete speculation. He was watched by the fbi when he came back from russia.This s a logic that clearly doesn't fit the conspiarcy theory . That's they say he was not a communist without any proof. Oswald says "I am a communist" you say, he's lying. Oswald says I am innocent you say "It's true".
@captainkavern Yes it is speculation, just like everything you have said on this page. The Oswald lone assassin theory is just that -- a theory. It has never been proven in court, and never will be thanks to his convient death. For you to claim otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
Let's assume he was a communist. I never said he wasn't. Then he has no motive to kill JFK who had a peace policy toward the USSR. What is Oswald's motive to kill Kennedy? His wife Marina said he liked Kennedy.
@captainkavern Also you need to explain how Oswald went to the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City the same day he was supposedly training with his rifle at a range in Texas. You need to explain how he renounced his US citizenship and got a US passport in 48 hours, 3 years later. You need to explain how he became fluent in Russian as a radar operator in Japan. You need to explain how multiple witnesses place him with Clay Shaw and other proven CIA agents on multiple occasions.
It seems it was not Oswald at the range. The man seen there was driving a car. Oswald couldn't drive.Oswald was self taught in russian. The Clay Shaw case was the least credible conspiracy theory.
@captainkavern Have you ever taught yourself a language? Do you know how hard Russian is? I am fluent in German (not easy either) and am studying Russian. There is no way I could have gotten fluent in German without living there or getting serious training (as Oswald must have for Russian). The point is he took a test in the military showing he had essentially mastered Russian before he ever went there.
ok so if I get you the only way to learn russian is to be taught by the CIA....you must consider Oswald was very motivated tol learn russian , he wanted to go and live there. It must be hard hard to learn russian alone but to say it is impossible!!! It was not a test , it was an evaluation. and of course he learned russian before going, that was the point! And by the way he was not fluent. he was good but not fluent.
It wouldn't make sense anyway for the CIA to make him fluent in russian since the russians knew he was american. It was in the news paper! That is not the best way for a CIA agent to enter a country...
@RWT683 And even more damning than any connection to Clay Shaw is Oswald's close ties to George de Mohrenschildt, an undoubted CIA man, who coincidently was a friend of George HW Bush, another CIA man whose history is covered up.
Not to change the subject but the Bushes were also friends of the Hinckley family, whose "mentally ill" son tried to kill Reagan. (which would have made him president) Poor Poppy sure fell in with the wrong crowd.
Oswald turned his interest to cuba after he was disatisfied with USSR. He was trying to go there. I don't think he had any particular problem with kennedy himself. He had a problem with what JFK stood for. JFK was a clear ennemy of Cuba. And oswald was a supporer of Castro's revolution JFK was anticommunist.And did not want to make peace with USSR. Check my previous comment to greggie707 about Kennedy Vietnam policy
@captainkavern JFK was anticommunist there is no doubt. He also believed in peace and cooperation with the communists if possible. There is documented evidence he was trying to set up a meeting with Castro before he was killed. Was he an "enemy" of Cuba by saving it from invasion and nuclear holocaust like the US military wanted? You are grasping at straws and speculating. I guess that makes you a conspiracy theorist.
You should know that JFK led a scret war against castro. The CIA led by Bobby Kennedy was trying to assassinate him. Bobby always feared that the assassination plot would pop up and tarnish his brother prestige after the warren report. And don't forget JFK clumsyly tried to invade Cuba in the Bay of pigs.
@captainkavern See now you are showing you don't know anything about JFK's presidency. He had nothing to do with planning the Bay of Pigs, it was planned covertly and he was blackmailed into signing on the dotted line and he took it out on the CIA by firing their entire leadership. No mainstream historian disputes that. The plots against Castro (Mongoose) were run by the CIA/joint chiefs which was hostile to the Kennedys. Bobby was just one seat the planning committee. Read the book I mentioned.
If you are right JFK was a completeely powerless, naive and useless president. Wich he was certainely not. He may have listen to bad advises for bay of pigs but he was the only one who could decide to do it or not. It was a mistake he admitted it publicly. He fired the Chief of CIA and replaced him by a close friend and started do look closer with his brother what the CIA was doing. Because what you are saying is.
I am not trying to convince you that I am right and I am wrong. I don't doubt you sincerely think what you say. But it is the same for me. The only thing I can say is that I started studying that ase believing there was a conspiracy. But I realised that if you ant to see a conspiracy , anything becomes suspicious. So iwent from "where is the conspiracy?" to "where is the truth?" . And today I can say that no conspiracy th is strong enough over the lone gunman .
@captainkavern I don't see how any reasonably intelligent person could possibly beleive the lone gunman theory. You would have to believe in the super bullet, the pristine bullet (2 different things but the same object) you would have to discount your own vision from the z-film you would have to state that BOTH US Army test were wrong (the 100 shots and the cadaver tests) you would have to dismiss over 1/2 the witnesses in dealy plaza, you would have to assume the nitrate tests are wrong,etc.
The bullet was NOT pristine !!! Even Garisson said it was not pristine!! Com'on!!!! The zapruder film clearly shows Kennedy and Connaly are hit at the same time. At NO other moment in the film you can see Connaly react to another bullet strike. More than 80% of the witness in dealy plaza heard 3 shots. The nitrate test are unreliable . It not valid in front a court of law even today.
@captainkavern Gov Connally went to his grave SWEARING there is NO WAY the bullet that hit Kennedy in the neck could be the same one that hit him. It took him nearly 2 seconds to respond to the shot that hit Kennedy in the neck before he himself was hit. The confusion comes from the fact that you see him grimacing when Kennedy is shot and so the wrong assumption is made. He grimaced because he realized what was happening not due to physical pain. He already addressed this.
Gov Connaly told many times on tv what happened that day and by watching the zapruder film you can tell he made many unvoluntary mistakes in his testimony. The first shot he heard did not hit kennedy or anybody else. That was the shot that missed . By the way he was not able to turn and see kennedy at that time so he cannot say if JFK was hit or not.
@PabloPena108 The 2nd shot hit them both. It is clearly visible on the film. Kennedy reacts and you can see connally's jacket's flap push forward by the bullet exiting his chest. "he grimaced because he realized what was happening" lol! He grimaced because he was hit!
@captainkavern You would have to assume Oswald was psychic and knew Kennedy would be late for his appointment at the trade mart, you would have to assume he had SOME motive such as notoriety and then state he must have chickened out AFTER firing the shots, you would have to assume the Top Acoustic physicists on earth are ALL wrong. You would have to assume that the 2 mafia figures set to testify before the HSCA were murdered for some reason OTHER than the jfk assassination. It's so laugable.
It is impossible to know for sure Oswald motivation but who cares? We are looking for facts, right? We are not trying to guess or speculate.right?Kennedy was supposed to be at Dealey plaza at 12:10. He finally got there at 12:30. Olswad's lunchbreak was from 12:00 to 12:45 so he had the opportunity either the president was late or not. The accoustic recording that proved to the HSCA there as a 4th shot was prove to be false...
@captainkavern Wrong on ALL counts. Motivation is not "speculation". All police are always asking about possible motives it helps them decide who is the most likely candidate so motive definitely matters and is always taken into account. The W.C. already stated that Oswald was eating lunch at 12:15 based on several witnesses. He could not POSSIBILY have been on the 6th floor when Kennedy was scheduled to enter dealy plaza and the scientists at the NRC panel have been proven wrong.
@captainkavern Read "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why he died and why it matters." If you read it you will no longer buy the Warren Report if you have any backbone at all.
JFK was killed by one insignificant man. His death makes absolutely no sense. That is what you and so many people cannot accept. It has to be something evil and big. A conspiracy. Sorry Oswald did it case closed.
@captainkavern This is the best argument the lone nutters have "Oh well they can't handle the fact that someone as insignificant as Oswald could kill someone as important has Kennedy". Really? Is that the best you've got? Didn't Mark David Chapman kill John Lennon? Anyone disputing that? These arguments are so petty and stupid. These people just don't have critical thinking skills - case closed.
This is not argument this was just a thought. before Kennedy 3 presidents were killed : no conspiracy. After Kennedy almost every president had an assassination attempt. The most famous one being the Reagan one. always a lone nut. I base my judgment whith what we know for sure. If one day an argument for conspiracy convince me . I will believe in a conspiracy. So far this is absolutely not the case...
@RWT683 Yes Lincoln murder was conspiracy and the conspiracy was discovered right after the murder and they were all sentenced to death. But the conspiracy to kill jfk has not been discovered yet. So if you know US. history better than I do (And I am sure it is not the case), youu should know that this conspiracy has no credible foundation so far...I say so far because there could have been a conspiracy after all, why not. But nothing credible so far...
@captainkavern Your "case" may be closed, and I don't give a damn. If the Warren Report is your "case" you are an embarrassment to common sense and with your vociferous support of it show yourself a lemming-headed fool.
If you had ever shot a bolt-action rifle you would know Oswald did not hit JFK twice with 3 shots from that POS Carcano & POS scope. He would be lucky to hit with shot 1, and he would not be able to reacquire in time after working the bolt. Say what you want...case closed.
I have never shot a bolt action rifle in my life. Maybe you have. But it doesn't make an expert in the JFk case anyway. What I find really annoying . Is the way you say" My opinion is the best and anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid, or a agent of cia ..". Me I say. from my point of view, all the conspiracy theories (they are many) impeaches each other. None has convinced me so far. All you CTer can do is insulting people who don't share your views...that is not nice.
@captainkavern No shooting a bolt rifle doesn't make one an expert on JFK or on rifles, but it does give one a little more perspective on how difficult it would have been for Oswald to make the shots alleged.
Several people including me have disproved many of your "facts" and statements, then you invent a new argument. That's called a priori, or having a pre-determined conclusion & doing whatever it takes to fit it. That's what the Warren Report did. That's not science. Good luck to you.
@RWT683 I am sorry you did not disprove nothing. You just came forward with crazy arguments you couldn't prove. (Oswald was CIA, He was set up, he didn't fire ) you have absolutely nothing more than stupids book that reveal nothing and are made so people like you buy them. every book about the conspiracy impeaches the previous one and reveal nothing they can prove. The warren report was based on physical facts and real testimonies. But of course you don't belive it. So, end of story...
@captainkavern Look since you are clearly NOT an expert marksman why don't you trust the person most militaries around the world consider the greatest sniper that ever lived w / 93 confirmed kills and 2 different history channel specials dedicated to him and a lifetime of training Marine Corps Snipers. Carlos Hathcock has stated EMPHATICALLY that no one could have done what the Warren Comission said Oswald did. It is only amateurs that consider it possible.
@PabloPena108 Sure I am not an expert ! Never said I was. But I do my research . And your comment is typical of what you Cter are used to. As long as an info is conspiracy oriented you don't verify if it is true or not. If you had done your research properly you would know that Hathcock never said what you said. Craig Robert in his book Kill Zone said that he heard Hathcock say that. Roberts said he was himslef a expert shot wich was simply not true...
@captainkavern Oh really? Didn't verify if it's true or not? That's funny coming from you who IS SO SURE Roberts MUST be lying because he doesn't agree with you! Here's the exact quote : "Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (KILL ZONE, pp. 89-90).
@PabloPena108 I know that exact quote . The problem is this Robert talking about what Hathcock allegedly said. Of course nobody else witnessed that conversation and Hathcock who died 5 years after that book was released never confirmed that. This always the same story with you Cters. you know things from a guy who said in a book that he heard another guy who said that somebody told him that maybe he was told that.....
@captainkavern Witnessed that conversation? Paranoid much?? Since when has an author needed to prove he WASN"T a liar?? Do you have some information we don't?? This is a PERFECT example of the distraction and smear tactics of Lone nutters who will DO or SAY anything to try and prove their point. There are plenty of quotes in "Reclaiming history" by Vincent Bugliosi and while I don't necessarily agree with them I don't just go around accusing Buglisios of being a liar. You're such a joke.
Roberts calls himself a sniper and says he's an expert on the matter of shooting. Well, let me have some doubt about a man who never scored any higher on a Marine riflerange than Oswald himself. Hathcock never participated to that book . So Roberts can perfectly have fabricated the story. Hathcock could kill a target at 2500 yards!!! How could he say that 88 yards is an impossible shoot. And no one ever proved that he made any test about je fk case.
@captainkavern Again typical misinformation from the lonenutter. Craig Roberts was not trained as a sniper until AFTER his military service, specifically at the Tulsa Police Department. You said "Hathcock never participated in the book" and have no evidence WHATSOEVER to that effect. You are just calling someone a liar because you have no real arguments. What Hathcocks said stands and the onus of proof is on you to say Roberts lied. Anybody can just say "Liar, liar".
@captainkavern Btw I'm pretty open minded. If you have PROOF that Roberts is lying, I'll hear it. (I'm assuming you do since you wouldn't make sure ridiculous accusations otherwise).
@PabloPena108 Craig Roberts, contrary to his claims, was never a certified Marine Sniper. In point of fact, he never scored any higher than a sharpshooter himself, on any Marine Corps range. This little detail can be found in his resume, directly at his website, where he lists his Marine Marksmanship badge, as sharpshooter. He is clearly lying.
Making a good demonstration means using an argument and illustrate it with example. I did so many time here. No one found any argument against mine on vietnam war, I put concrete numbers about the witnesses in dealey plaza, you can refer to books written by phony experts seeking for fame and your money.
@PabloPena108 I challenge your knowledge of history wich is naive and superficial. I am not an expert but you are much further from being one. you wouldn't last a minute in a highschool history class...the sad part is you think you are....
@captainkavern My friend I've investigated the Kennedy assassination for over 20 years. You wouldn't stand a chance in a debate against me, in fact, the only person who might be able to "who plays for your team" is Bugliosi and trust me I would destroy him too. High school history classes have to tow the state line which is pure stupidity and I feel sorry for anyone in High school who has to have their intelligence insulted like this.
Modesty doesn't seem to be your first quality...I mean studying the case of the JFK murder for 20 years and still believing there was a conspiracy shows that maybe should'nt have skipped history classes in highschool...
@captainkavern That's because you're stupid enough to think their is anything about the single shooter theory that COULD stand up to logic. The reason I would win a debate hands down is because the lone nutter theory is outrageously illogical, ignorant and patently stupid. It is the biggest insult to American society that has ever been perpetrated by our Gov't. It shows just how stupid sheeple such as yourself can even be convinced that their eyes are playing tricks on them. Unbelievable.
1, according to the MBT connaly is sitting excactely in front of kennedy: WRONG!
Connaly is sitting on a jumpseat lower than JFK and more inside the car. Plus at the time the bullet strikes connaly is turned to his right. So of course if seat connaly exactely in front of JFK facing forward the wound don't match!
2: Kennedy and Connaly are hit by the same bullet it is clearly visible on the zapruder film.
@captainkavern so how does one bullet cause 7 wounds to jfk and conally? warren comission says only 3 shots were fired , so explain to me how 3 shots were fired . let me help you out here . one shot missed the car completely. it hit a curb and a fragment of curb caused a tiny cut on a bystander named james tague. (his cheek was cut). bullet 3 was the headshot on jfk. so that leaves bullet 2 , which was the magic bullet theory. and that caused the 7 wounds between both men.
So let's say you are right and connaly and kennedy are hit by different bullets. Can you (or somebodyelse) explain to me where the bullet that entered Kennedy's back is? And don't tell me the bullet stayed inside the body because Kennedy wasn't made of Iron. The bullet should have excitde somewhere in the limo. No such thing happened.
@captainkavern the back wound was shallow ,it was probed first with a finger and then with a surgical probe , i think its reasonable to say ce399 could be the bullet that caused the shallow wound and fell out of the wound . the bullet that hit connolly (or what was left of it ) fell on the floor and the nurse (in front of connally ) picked it up and placed it in her pocket.
this is to clev9880 , not to be rude but , the supposed 3 shots came in at 5.6 seconds and since oswalds "rifle' was a bolt and action rifle took 2.5 seconds to recycle. do the math.
5.6 sec is the time between the second and the third (and last) shot. The entire shooting took 7 to 8 sec approximately. Which is more than enough to do what Oswald did.
And by the way in the movie JFK there is a sequence when they try to replicate Oswald 3 shot in 5.6 sec with the carchano and they actually do it! So Oswald shooting JFK from the book depositoey has nothing magical. It is just a fact.
I just can't believe how many people in the States buy into the Conspiracy Theory of JFK. However, in a survey of university educated Americans, the Conspiracy theory belief drops tremendously - less than 15%. What does this tell us? That it is the uneducated among us that is easily mislead and coerced by others to believe something that just isn't so.
@greggie0707 If you watch closely; head goes foward for 2 frames along with the pink mist-brain-skull matter going up and foward of JFK. The bullet damaged right side of his brain, causing severe muscular seizure to the left side of his body. Back brace kept him more vertical for headshot after upper back-neck wound from rifle.
@clev9980 I guess you are a forensic pathologist & probably a Vincent Bugliosi disciple . Science is factual & the law of momentum cannot be expained away. The science in Bugliosi's book is is equa to that of a 2 grade classroom.
@RMcGO28716 Law of momentum is fine, but you have to have the training and experience in crime scene investigation and forensics to be able to apply principles in a correct manner. Oswald was the shooter period.
What I don't understand is that people don't even consider the possibility that oswald did it. Somebody told them that it was impossible. And yet there is no serious proof of a conspiration out there...
@captainkavern Well I personally have no doubt that Oswald was involved in Kennedy's assassination in some way; I just don't think he acted alone. The government did a very bad job of lying and it spawned five decades of conspiracy talk by forcing the theories of lone gunman and magic bullet down our throats. Sometimes a lie is believable, but sometimes it's so bad that it's insulting because the source of the lie apparently assumes you are stupid enough to believe utter nonsense.
The probleme with the conspiracy theory is that it's doing exactely what the gvt supposedly does to hide the truth. How many myths (the "magic" bullet theory is a simple ballistic fact: if you shoot to people sitting in front of each other at 88 yards with a bolt action rifle, the bullet will go through them) But for the conspiracy fansits to simple it HAS to be more complicated. So when something doesn't fit their Ideas they make it more complicated.
Like, the Zapruderfilm is fake, The backyard photos are fake (Marina Oswald said she took them and even most of the conspiracy fans believe it is true now), the autopsy photo are fake, come on! Oswald was CIA!!! so to kill a CIA agent you sent a night club owner to be sure he will be dead...yeah...right.
@captainkavern Try this on for size: Oswald fired 3 shots from the Book Depository, and an accomplice (maybe one of Oswald's wacko friends) fired 3 shots from behind the picket fence. I agree there's no need for elaborate conspiracy theories, so this is a pretty simple explanation and it accounts for six different shots within ten seconds or so. One of the shots fired missed everything. One of them struck the curb near the underpass and injured James Teague.
What wacko friends??? Nobody ever saw Oswald with "wacko" friends. He was quite lonely actually and didn't connect with people. He was in custody 48hrs before being killed, he talked to his brother, to his mother, to he wife, to a lawyer and did the midnight press conference. He never talked about accomplices...No such preoof exists. Only wild speculations and false stories...
Nobody ever saw anyone shooting from the grassy knoll at the time of the shooting. Some people said they heard shots coming from the railroad tracks (in front of the limousine). The only man who was able to see behind the picket fence was Lee Bowers. And he said he saw 2 men (too far from each other to be together) they seemed to react when the shot where fired but he never saw anyone firing. And he never said he saw.
Jean Hill the very same day of the shooting was interviewed by the tv. She said she did'nt see where the shots came from. 15years later (by that time the grassy knoll had became famous for the conspiracy buffs) she finally said she remembered seeing a flash of light, and smoke...not very credible...
@captainkavern As I said before, I do think Oswald was involved in the assassination and fired at least one of the shots. I just think that he had accomplices. Yes, I do believe the bag which he brought into work that day contained a rifle and not curtain rods as he claimed. But it would've been more believable for the government simply to have said that it was Oswald shooting from the book depository, and one of his wacko friends shooting from behind the picket fence.
So if the Killing was made by Oswald and his wacko friends, why would the government try to help them by hiding the truth? They're just a bunch of losers. It doesn't make sense. They are not important enough to be protected.
If the government needed a pasty the last person to choose would be oswald. Why? He was not reliable at all, and very unstable,. And he was a communist.(or a Marxist). The biggest fear of thewarren commission was to find out there was a communist conspiracy because it could lead to a nuclear war. So if the government needed a patsy they probably would have picked up a right wing radical.
@greggie0707 People don't pay attention to detail. frames 313-314 not only show his head going foward...they also show his brain and skull matter going up and FOWARD.
Absolutely! But you know. when the zapruder film was not available CTers said it was because it revealed the conspiracy. And then we all saw that the movie confirms the lone assassin theory. They say it is fake! Com on!
If an object strikes you (a bullet ) the force of that object will make it go through your body.
If someone punches you in the head your head will go backward because the fist did not go through your head (normaly!) . Conclusion. A man shot is never "pushed" by the bullet. The bullet is to fast. Kennedy 's motion was a muscular reflex...
Yet we still have JFK records sealed. People are AFRAID to try and get them open due to what happened almost 50 years ago. People on this forum are AFRAID to contact their representatives and senators because of what happened 50 years ago. It wasn't just JFK, it was a message to all who seek to defy those in authority, That's why he was hit the way he was hit.
@GregWn The records were sealed to avoid embarassing the Kennedy Family. By the time they are all released most of the baby boomer generation and all of the people who would or could have voted in 1960 will have passed on.
Garrison is a hero and he will be vindicated in the future!
TheOrderoftheOwl 3 days ago
@ProtectAus Fucking TROLL!!
KiIIU99 2 weeks ago
i saw ten years worth of head wounds. i neaver had any diffuculty knowning if the wound was an exit or entrance. its just not rocket science. kennedy had a flap of skin containing a entrance woound carved away with knife and a white wax skull piece layed in for pictures. it stinks to high heven, and the man that took the pictures is dead. gunshot wound to the head.
datzfast 3 weeks ago
The fact that some people believe there was conspiracy is ok to me, after all I believed so myself 2 years ago. But that those people say that Oswald shooting Kennedy is IMPOSSIBLE, is denying a normal possibility. So many myths yet debunked are still around.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Let's take the Zapruder film. First some people Cters said the gvt was hiding it because it revealed the conspiracy. Then when it was available and clearly did not reveal any conspiracy people started to say it was fake or edited. Yet the motion back and to the left is the proof there was a shot from the front. the problem with that is there is no exit wound in the back on his head , despite what some doctors who never examined the back of JFK head said.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern can someone explain me why that exit wound in the back of the head is not there (as the autopsy photos confirm). Can someone explain also why JFK's head moves forward first before his body goes backward? Because he was shot from the back of course...But no! The autopsy photos are fake, the zapruder film is fake (when it helps you), the X-rays are fake...that is the only argument I hear , Fake , Impossible, always denying the obvious. or at least you could say "could be"...but no
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern What you saw was the exit wound. If you have ever shot a gun you would know the entrance wound is always about the size of the bullet its self, the exit wound is always multiple times larger. My only explanation is that the shot came from behind, and as he fell forward the car suddenly breaked causing him to go back into his seat.
November10th1775USMC 1 month ago
@November10th1775USMC
Yeah I know, I totally agree with you but it seems we are one of the few to think so here...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@November10th1775USMC God I've dealth with this subject to death. The exit wound is larger IF AND ONLY IF the entrance is a soft entry point like shooting somebody in the back or stomach. The human skull is the hardest organic substance in nature look it up on wikipedia. Have you ever shot at a brick and seen a larger exit wound??? This was NOT an armor piercing round though it might have been hollow point.
PabloPena108 4 weeks ago
@PabloPena108 The problem is most of the conspiracy fans claimed that there was an exit wound at the back of the head of the president. The Zapruder film and the autopsy photos shows that the back of the head remain intact .(Almost if you consider there was an entrance wound) Well if checking facts on wikipedia makes you feel like an balistic expert ...you are in trouble my friend...
captainkavern 4 weeks ago
@PabloPena108 Obviously you have not dealt with this subject, a average speed moving baseball bat could crack a human skull, it is not as strong as you think. And deffinatly not the hardest organic substance in nature, bone is very fragile when contacted with a peice of solid steel moving faster twice the speed of sound.
November10th1775USMC 4 weeks ago
@November10th1775USMC It's not about how TOUGH a human skull is it's about how HARD. A diamond is the hardest substance on earth but it's really not that tough. The human skull is quite hard and not a "soft entry point"
PabloPena108 4 weeks ago
@PabloPena108 The Human skull is a very soft entry point, Its thinner than any other human bone and carries the same density. Like I said the collision speed that bullets present are more than enough to enter a human skull and go out the other end. Look at JFK autopsy pictures and diagrams, the bullet hit the upper back of the skull, exiting the upper front a few inches away from the entrance wound. The energy blast of the bullet ripped the few inches of skull and brain in the way.
November10th1775USMC 4 weeks ago
@captainkavern WTF?? The Govt WAS using its influence to supress the Zapruder film. And then you have the gall to say "did not reveal conspiracy". Are you on acid or something? Did you NOT see the final head shot? The only reason we are even here is because of that film which is what convinces 75 % of the populace that the final head shot came from the front. As far sa why the Gov't "let" the Z film get released well they can only influence they can't dictate.
PabloPena108 4 weeks ago
@PabloPena108 If I get you, the conspiracy which was powerful enough to kill the president, kill the "pasty " so he cannot talk, kill dozens of witnesses so they cannot talk, destroy many evidences, disinformed the hole country, made photos, films of the event disappear...that conspiracy was not able to get rid of the Zapruder film? hmmmm....and what do you say to all those conspiracists who think the Zapruder film is a fake?
captainkavern 4 weeks ago
BAH! complete interview!
What's with all these f**ing fade-out's??! People may actually want to hear him complete a thought. Geez.
whomod 1 month ago
These people are so stupid. It's just amazing this country still runs. They actually believe Kennedy's head movement is indicated of a REAR shot, they discount the TOP acoustic physicsts on earth, they say Oswald did it and can come up with no motive, nitrate tests for his cheeks were negative and there is not even an ATTEMPT in the whole of the WC to explain Kennedys strange head movement in the Z film. Meanwhile they DID include Jack Ruby's Mother's dental records. Pfft.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108 Covering for the jews doesn't work anymore jackass.
DracoPilamZ 4 weeks ago
@DracoPilamZ Covering for the Jews?? FTW? Well the JFK assassination does bring out the weirdos.
PabloPena108 4 weeks ago
@PabloPena108 Aww, does the jew media tell you what and how to think? Yes, covering for the zionists doesn't work anymore.
DracoPilamZ 4 weeks ago
@PabloPena108 The TOP accoustic on earth? why not in the galaxy? Who are they? what is their name? If they were right the conspiracy would have been proved. is this the case? No. No sound of the assassination has EVER been recorded. The HSC recording was taken minuts after the assassination. So your expert no matter how good they are could not study a sound that has never been recorded...
captainkavern 4 weeks ago
@captainkavern The firm is BBN (Bolt, beranack & Newman) and both they and Queens college did the acoustic analysis of the police dictabelt. I'm not unfamiiar with it because I worked for Bell Labs in Acoustics physics research as well. The recordings indicate putative gunshots AT the time of the assassination and not 1 minute afterwards. The "Scientists" at the NRC panel were completley wrong in their analysis and given they work for the Gov't conflict of interest as well.
PabloPena108 4 weeks ago
hello captainkavern. i guess we are going to agree to disagree on the jfk assassination. good luck to you.
greggie0707 1 month ago
@greggie0707
good luck to you too.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern
I agree with you on that... :)
captainkavern 1 month ago
captainkavern - why did so many witnesses say that were aware of ono or more shots were fired from the grassy knoll? oswald was at best a "medium" shot in the marine corp . even some of his contemporaries in the corp said he had "maggies drawers" which meant he was a horrible shot. also . why were there no fingerprints on riffle that lho used? nitrate tests were done and it was proven that lho never even fired a rifle that day.
greggie0707 1 month ago
@greggie0707 "was at best a medium shot" is a line directely taken from the movie JFK.
The problem is that is simply not true. His shooting record shows that he scored 2 points above the level to be a sharpshooter. And the target was 200 yards away (Kennedy was 88 yards away). So he was good shooter , not an expert , but a good shooter. It is true that he became less good toward the end of his marine days but. he was not a poor shot. A was above the average marine shot.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@greggie0707
there were 178 witnesses on dealey plaza that day. 80.8% heard 3 shots.10.5% heard 1 or 2 shots. 8.7 heard 4 or more shots. 53.8% heard shots from the depository. 33.7 heard shots from the grassy knoll. 4.8% heard shots from both directions and 7% heard shots from various other origins. Youu can't deny that statisticaly speaking, the most propbable thing is that there were 3 shots fired from the depository.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@greggie0707
The nitrate test is not reliable, he was tested 2 times , one test was negative and the other positve. Anyway the nitrate test is so unreliable that it has absolutely no value in court of law ...
captainkavern 1 month ago
i saw that you tried to send me a response on 1/12/12 . i was unable to open it . what did you say?
greggie0707 1 month ago
@greggie0707
I will have to check , I don't remember!
captainkavern 1 month ago
hello captainkavern , if oswald was the lone assassin , why didn't he shoot jfk coming up houston st? it would have been a frontal shot. even if oswald had missed he probably could have had more shots to fire at jfk. secondly , it was a clear shot , no trees etc. it never made any sense to me that lho would have tried to shoot jfk while he was going away from lho and not towards him.
greggie0707 1 month ago
@greggie0707
Houston street would have been a bad idea. first because at that time the morcade, the secret service everyone is looking toward him, they would just have to look up to spot him. firing when they are on elm has the advantage of making him hard to spot because evrybody is turning his bak on him , looking at the president.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@greggie0707 shooting on houston street has another major problem. Oswald would have had to shoot a target aproching from him. the closer it comes the faster the angle changes making it more and more difficult to keep it in the telescopic lense. On the contrary, on Elm street the limo going away, the angle change less making it move slower in the scope. Easier shot. and safer because people have to turn and figure out where it comes from. Leaving time to escape.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Sorry this is my last comment...but if you are seriously saying it would be easier to hit a vehicle moving away than coming toward you...I'm at a loss for words.
What you are saying about the angle is nonsense. On Houston St. he would not have needed to lead the target much at all compared to Elm. And shooter error increases exponentially with distance. That's why it would be better to shoot something moving toward you because your error is decreasing.
RWT683 1 month ago
@RWT683
I will not try to make response to that...maybe you shouldn't have skipped your physics and optic class because at this point there is nothing I can do for you...and are you sure you ever used a rifle to shoot a moving target? Well anyway...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern
Now that we all have the proof that you know nothing about optics , will you say that my other aguments about why he didn't shoot on Houston street don't make sense?
captainkavern 1 month ago
In the JFK murder, any reference to the lone nut comes soley from outside sources and never once were eyes on Oswald during his "real kookiness" now if all it takes today to convict a man is the desire to do so and the willingness to entertain hearsay &perjury ; then our justice system is completely fucked up!
despotzapper 1 month ago
captainkavern - um , no bullet could do what you think the magic bullet could do . none. sorry fella.
greggie0707 1 month ago
@greggie0707
So you think a bullet fired from a 80 yards with rifle cannot go through two bodies...ok what more can I say...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Yeah and the bullet was in nearly pristine condition. The average weight for that kind of round was approx 165 grains, CE399 Weiged in at 156 grains. The ONLY way the U.S. Army was able to get that LITTLE damage was by shooting into cotton wadding, a SINGLE impact point. If you want to call cotton wadding "an impact point",lol
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
right...
captainkavern 1 month ago
What this proves to me is that Kevin Costner was miscast!
orkavorn 1 month ago
hello captainkavern. you said it yourself . first you say the mbt is a myth and then you say both conally and jfk were hit by 2 bullets? what gives?
greggie0707 1 month ago
@greggie0707
yes 2 bullets. one hit kennedy and connally in the back (the "magic" one) and the other hit kennedy in the head.
captainkavern 1 month ago
Kevin Costner did an outstanding job in JFK, but I think Powers Booth looks a lot more like the real Garrison and would have done an outstanding job as well, but he wouldn't have attracted the audience of Costner.
RWT683 2 months ago
No educated and informed American now believes the official version.
BUGBOY10000 2 months ago
to captainkavern , if you have never heard of the "magic bullet theory" please look it up. no bullet ever being shot downwards goes up then pauses mid air while making a u-turn. also , a bullet is never going to go through dense bones and come out of the body in almost perfect condition.
greggie0707 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Yes of course I know the magic bullet theory. But it has been debunked a long time ago and very easily. The Magic bullet theory is one of the many theory based on completely wrong facts.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern there had to be more shots fired man. the warren comission is wrong. i don't normally go for conspiracies but in this case there was one. I believe jfk was killed because he was going to pull out our advisors in vietnam by the end of 1965. that's if he got re-elected(which he probably would have). war is big business. look up nsam #263. it explains jfk's desire to have no part in vietnam.
greggie0707 2 months ago
@greggie0707
ok here are the facts we all agree with:
a total of 7 wounds for the president and connally.
Connaly: 1 in the right back, 1 below the right nipple, 1 in the right whrist, 1 in the right leg. Kennedy: 1 in the back ,1 in the throat, 1 in the head.(in fact 2 in the head if you consider the entrance wound in the back of the skull and the exit wound on the right)
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
The warren commission said this: 3 shot were fired. The first shot apparently missed.
the second shot hit Kennedy and connaly and the third shot hit kennedy in the head.
The conspiracy buffs say that the second shot is the magic bullet and cannot make such wound on Connaly and Kennedy.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
My guess is that like many Cters you based your conclusions on the movie JFK wich full of mistakes involuntary or not. for that you should search on google: "oliver stone's jfk: the JFK 100" you will see how incorrect or unfair is the movie about the facts or the record.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
The magic Bullet theory has been debunked easily a long time ago. Jim garrison (and oliver stone) made a major mistake in their demonstration: Connaly is misplaced. The say is torso was not turned and that he was seating exactely in front of the president. Wich is absolutely wrong. Connaly was sitting on a jumpseat lower and more inside the limo. plus his torso was turned to his right. So of course if you turn Connaly's torso face forward the wound wound match...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Oliver stone and Garrison say that the magic bullet stay in mid air . Of course the imply Connaly and JFK are not hit by the same bullet. The probleme with that is that if you watch accurately the zapruder film you will see that JFK and Connaly react at the same time. You will see that you can clearly see connaly's jacket pushed forward (the exit wound below the right nipple). Therefore you have to admit that the bullet came from behind. And JFK was in the way...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Plus it is obvious that a bullet aimed at to men sitting in front of the other, fired from a bolt action rifle from 88 yards will go through both men that is a certainty. That would create at least 4 wounds (entry and exit for both men). Connaly's whrist was in the way it wast struck. (and by the way Connaly kept his stetson in his right hand until they reached the hospital). When the bullet came out from Connaly's chest it was rolling and tumbling and losing speed...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
That's why it ended up making u superficial wound in his right leg.... And by the way the bullet found in parkland was not pristine. It and been fired . The fact that it met almost no bones explain why it not very damaged.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707 to finish with the magic bullet you have to understand, that it took 6 to 7 minutes for the limousine to reach parkland hospital after the shooting. At the time of the shoot Nobody can really know what is going to happen, how the people will react in the limo, if connaly is dead or not. That would mean that the conspiracy guys would have 6 to 7 minutes to figure out a plan that would match what happen in the limo...unlikely....
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Now let's talk about the Vietnam...
According to Oliver Stone (who has voluntered to go to Vietnam and was shocked by what he saw there) the Vietnam war is the very reason JFK was killed. In other words: if JFK was not killed the Vietnam war would not have happened. We can't know for sure. But the record show that JFK at the time of his death had no intention to withdraw from vietnam.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
in the openning of the movie JFK we can see The president interviewed by walter cronkite in sept 63 . JFK said "It's their war , they have to win it or lose it". Sure but that is taken out of context. you can watch the complete interview here on youtube "Cronkite Interview of JFK " he finishes the interview with those words "I don't agree with those who say we sould withdraw, that would be a terrible mistake".
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Another interview that same month for ABC "OUTTAKES FROM AN NBC-TV INTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT KENNEDY ON SEPT. 9, 1963 " the vietnam part starts at 3:50 . At 4:51 the reporter asks JFK "are we likely to reduce our aid to south vietnam?" I let you listen to JFK answer wich is very clear .
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707 The very morning of his death JFK was delivering a speech in fort worth.
JFK IN FORT WORTH, TEXAS, ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963 (PART 5) listen at 3:44 to 4:53 tell me if those are the word of a president who wanted to withdraw from Vietnam...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Bobby Kennedy (who was a supporter of the war until the and of 1966) said in an interview in 1964 with John Bartlow Martin when asked "There was never any consideration given to pulling out?" Bobby 's anwer couldn't more clear he said "No".
During the 1968 presidential campaign Bobby Kennedy admitted he and the JFK administration shared some responsabilities in the Vietnam war involvment of USA...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707 ok now, let's talk about memorendum nsam 263.
What does it say? : basicly it says that if the situation goes well in Vietnam and Diem regime seems to handle it we can withdraw 1000 troops there by 1965 . JFK wanted no announcement until the end of 63. This was before the Diem coup. As we know the situation did not get better so Kennedy woild have been foolish to announce a troop withdrawal, it would have been a defeat before a year of reelection...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Kennedy was disappointed by the Diem regime and he supported the coup against him in early november. Even if he regretted he was assinated. When Johnson became president he kept the exact same defense staff as the Kennedy administration. Mc Namara, Rusk etc..it just happened that the situation became completely different in vietman by the meantime. Under JFK's administration Vietnam was a problem it became a major problem under Johnson.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
There is something you must understand Kennedy was fiercely anticommunist . He believed in the domino theory and was sure that to lose Vietnam would mean losing all the asia to communists (you can watch him tell that himsel in the abc interview I mentionned you before.) So JFK died before being more impopular with that war.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
In conclusion I will say this: For a movie (and a director) evrything has to make sense. Kennedy 's death MUST have been made ma great evil power. But we all know that almost every US president had an assassination attempt. Only 4 succeded. each time it was made by a crazy fuck anarchist or disturbed political wacko. Kennedy 's death changed NOTHING in US politics. But for sentimal tal reasons people need to think there must be a big reason...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
Kennedy died because he was killed by Lee HArvey Oswald who was a communist disturbed man harrassed by the fbi sinced he came back from russia, and very distisfied with his life (professionaly and sentimentaly). He found out on the 21st of november that he had an opportunity. He took it and he succeded. Sad, pathetic, but true...nothing more.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern And yet he denied shooting anybody until he himself was silenced. Look at other presidential assassins and attempted assassins, they all take want credit and confess.
Plus they have to explain why Oswald, a supposed communist, would want to kill JFK who was making peace with the USSR and Cuba -- that makes zero sense. But the plotters knew it sure would turn blind public rage against communists (thus enabling the cold war and Vietnam to continue).
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683 the fact he was denying doesn't mean he was telling the truth. I think we can agree on that. He could be lying he could tell the truth. what make this assassination different from all the others , is that the murderer was not in direct contact with the victim. Nobody could really see the killer. In the other cases they couldn't deny, they were caught on the spot. Kennedy's killer was not.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@RWT683
The record show that oswald lied many times while in custody in the police station.
He lied about the curtain rods, he first said to the press he was arrested because he lived in the soviet union, (he was arrested for the tippit murder) , he gave 2 differents versions of what he was doing at the time of JFK 's murder. He never sad, his brother, his mother (who believed he was innocent), his wife, he was innocent.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern What "record" are you referring to? There is no record of Oswald's interrogation. Funny how he shoots the president but the police don't seem to think recording his interrogation is important.
He said he was arrested because he lived in the USSR, not that he was charged with living there (which was not a crime). He knew he was charged with the Tippit murder.
Oswald had no motive to kill JFK, he had no opportunity to kill JFK, and he had no means to kill JFK.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
There is no record of anybody being interrogated by the police. There is a rapport but nobody is recorded even today!
captainkavern 1 month ago
@RWT683
Oswald was a communist. he said it 2 times in interviews in the summer before the assassination. To believe this was fake is complete speculation. He was watched by the fbi when he came back from russia.This s a logic that clearly doesn't fit the conspiarcy theory . That's they say he was not a communist without any proof. Oswald says "I am a communist" you say, he's lying. Oswald says I am innocent you say "It's true".
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern Yes it is speculation, just like everything you have said on this page. The Oswald lone assassin theory is just that -- a theory. It has never been proven in court, and never will be thanks to his convient death. For you to claim otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
Let's assume he was a communist. I never said he wasn't. Then he has no motive to kill JFK who had a peace policy toward the USSR. What is Oswald's motive to kill Kennedy? His wife Marina said he liked Kennedy.
RWT683 2 months ago
@captainkavern Also you need to explain how Oswald went to the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City the same day he was supposedly training with his rifle at a range in Texas. You need to explain how he renounced his US citizenship and got a US passport in 48 hours, 3 years later. You need to explain how he became fluent in Russian as a radar operator in Japan. You need to explain how multiple witnesses place him with Clay Shaw and other proven CIA agents on multiple occasions.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
It seems it was not Oswald at the range. The man seen there was driving a car. Oswald couldn't drive.Oswald was self taught in russian. The Clay Shaw case was the least credible conspiracy theory.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern Have you ever taught yourself a language? Do you know how hard Russian is? I am fluent in German (not easy either) and am studying Russian. There is no way I could have gotten fluent in German without living there or getting serious training (as Oswald must have for Russian). The point is he took a test in the military showing he had essentially mastered Russian before he ever went there.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
ok so if I get you the only way to learn russian is to be taught by the CIA....you must consider Oswald was very motivated tol learn russian , he wanted to go and live there. It must be hard hard to learn russian alone but to say it is impossible!!! It was not a test , it was an evaluation. and of course he learned russian before going, that was the point! And by the way he was not fluent. he was good but not fluent.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@RWT683
It wouldn't make sense anyway for the CIA to make him fluent in russian since the russians knew he was american. It was in the news paper! That is not the best way for a CIA agent to enter a country...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@RWT683 And even more damning than any connection to Clay Shaw is Oswald's close ties to George de Mohrenschildt, an undoubted CIA man, who coincidently was a friend of George HW Bush, another CIA man whose history is covered up.
Not to change the subject but the Bushes were also friends of the Hinckley family, whose "mentally ill" son tried to kill Reagan. (which would have made him president) Poor Poppy sure fell in with the wrong crowd.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
Oswald turned his interest to cuba after he was disatisfied with USSR. He was trying to go there. I don't think he had any particular problem with kennedy himself. He had a problem with what JFK stood for. JFK was a clear ennemy of Cuba. And oswald was a supporer of Castro's revolution JFK was anticommunist.And did not want to make peace with USSR. Check my previous comment to greggie707 about Kennedy Vietnam policy
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern JFK was anticommunist there is no doubt. He also believed in peace and cooperation with the communists if possible. There is documented evidence he was trying to set up a meeting with Castro before he was killed. Was he an "enemy" of Cuba by saving it from invasion and nuclear holocaust like the US military wanted? You are grasping at straws and speculating. I guess that makes you a conspiracy theorist.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
You should know that JFK led a scret war against castro. The CIA led by Bobby Kennedy was trying to assassinate him. Bobby always feared that the assassination plot would pop up and tarnish his brother prestige after the warren report. And don't forget JFK clumsyly tried to invade Cuba in the Bay of pigs.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern See now you are showing you don't know anything about JFK's presidency. He had nothing to do with planning the Bay of Pigs, it was planned covertly and he was blackmailed into signing on the dotted line and he took it out on the CIA by firing their entire leadership. No mainstream historian disputes that. The plots against Castro (Mongoose) were run by the CIA/joint chiefs which was hostile to the Kennedys. Bobby was just one seat the planning committee. Read the book I mentioned.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
If you are right JFK was a completeely powerless, naive and useless president. Wich he was certainely not. He may have listen to bad advises for bay of pigs but he was the only one who could decide to do it or not. It was a mistake he admitted it publicly. He fired the Chief of CIA and replaced him by a close friend and started do look closer with his brother what the CIA was doing. Because what you are saying is.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@RWT683
Basicly what you say is all the bad thing made by the kennedy administration were not made by his fault...he had no responsability....
captainkavern 2 months ago
@RWT683
being hostile to someone doesn't mean you are going to kill him. Other wise many US president would have died violently...Kennedy was in charge.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern
I am not trying to convince you that I am right and I am wrong. I don't doubt you sincerely think what you say. But it is the same for me. The only thing I can say is that I started studying that ase believing there was a conspiracy. But I realised that if you ant to see a conspiracy , anything becomes suspicious. So iwent from "where is the conspiracy?" to "where is the truth?" . And today I can say that no conspiracy th is strong enough over the lone gunman .
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern I don't see how any reasonably intelligent person could possibly beleive the lone gunman theory. You would have to believe in the super bullet, the pristine bullet (2 different things but the same object) you would have to discount your own vision from the z-film you would have to state that BOTH US Army test were wrong (the 100 shots and the cadaver tests) you would have to dismiss over 1/2 the witnesses in dealy plaza, you would have to assume the nitrate tests are wrong,etc.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
The bullet was NOT pristine !!! Even Garisson said it was not pristine!! Com'on!!!! The zapruder film clearly shows Kennedy and Connaly are hit at the same time. At NO other moment in the film you can see Connaly react to another bullet strike. More than 80% of the witness in dealy plaza heard 3 shots. The nitrate test are unreliable . It not valid in front a court of law even today.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Gov Connally went to his grave SWEARING there is NO WAY the bullet that hit Kennedy in the neck could be the same one that hit him. It took him nearly 2 seconds to respond to the shot that hit Kennedy in the neck before he himself was hit. The confusion comes from the fact that you see him grimacing when Kennedy is shot and so the wrong assumption is made. He grimaced because he realized what was happening not due to physical pain. He already addressed this.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
Gov Connaly told many times on tv what happened that day and by watching the zapruder film you can tell he made many unvoluntary mistakes in his testimony. The first shot he heard did not hit kennedy or anybody else. That was the shot that missed . By the way he was not able to turn and see kennedy at that time so he cannot say if JFK was hit or not.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@PabloPena108 The 2nd shot hit them both. It is clearly visible on the film. Kennedy reacts and you can see connally's jacket's flap push forward by the bullet exiting his chest. "he grimaced because he realized what was happening" lol! He grimaced because he was hit!
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern You would have to assume Oswald was psychic and knew Kennedy would be late for his appointment at the trade mart, you would have to assume he had SOME motive such as notoriety and then state he must have chickened out AFTER firing the shots, you would have to assume the Top Acoustic physicists on earth are ALL wrong. You would have to assume that the 2 mafia figures set to testify before the HSCA were murdered for some reason OTHER than the jfk assassination. It's so laugable.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
It is impossible to know for sure Oswald motivation but who cares? We are looking for facts, right? We are not trying to guess or speculate.right?Kennedy was supposed to be at Dealey plaza at 12:10. He finally got there at 12:30. Olswad's lunchbreak was from 12:00 to 12:45 so he had the opportunity either the president was late or not. The accoustic recording that proved to the HSCA there as a 4th shot was prove to be false...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Wrong on ALL counts. Motivation is not "speculation". All police are always asking about possible motives it helps them decide who is the most likely candidate so motive definitely matters and is always taken into account. The W.C. already stated that Oswald was eating lunch at 12:15 based on several witnesses. He could not POSSIBILY have been on the 6th floor when Kennedy was scheduled to enter dealy plaza and the scientists at the NRC panel have been proven wrong.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
Oswald has absolutely no alibi at the time of the shooting nobody can say where he is.
Everybody , even conspiracy nuts knows the sound recording where taken minutes after the shooting and they reveal nothing.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
Mafia guys get killed all the time...since centuries ...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Read "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why he died and why it matters." If you read it you will no longer buy the Warren Report if you have any backbone at all.
RWT683 2 months ago
@RWT683
JFK was killed by one insignificant man. His death makes absolutely no sense. That is what you and so many people cannot accept. It has to be something evil and big. A conspiracy. Sorry Oswald did it case closed.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern This is the best argument the lone nutters have "Oh well they can't handle the fact that someone as insignificant as Oswald could kill someone as important has Kennedy". Really? Is that the best you've got? Didn't Mark David Chapman kill John Lennon? Anyone disputing that? These arguments are so petty and stupid. These people just don't have critical thinking skills - case closed.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
This is not argument this was just a thought. before Kennedy 3 presidents were killed : no conspiracy. After Kennedy almost every president had an assassination attempt. The most famous one being the Reagan one. always a lone nut. I base my judgment whith what we know for sure. If one day an argument for conspiracy convince me . I will believe in a conspiracy. So far this is absolutely not the case...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Wrong. Lincoln was killed as part of a conspiracy. Check out the recent Robert Redford film "The Conspirators."
You don't know US history and you don't know the JFK assassination... just shut up and bow out while you have a little respect left.
RWT683 1 month ago
@RWT683 Yes Lincoln murder was conspiracy and the conspiracy was discovered right after the murder and they were all sentenced to death. But the conspiracy to kill jfk has not been discovered yet. So if you know US. history better than I do (And I am sure it is not the case), youu should know that this conspiracy has no credible foundation so far...I say so far because there could have been a conspiracy after all, why not. But nothing credible so far...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Your "case" may be closed, and I don't give a damn. If the Warren Report is your "case" you are an embarrassment to common sense and with your vociferous support of it show yourself a lemming-headed fool.
If you had ever shot a bolt-action rifle you would know Oswald did not hit JFK twice with 3 shots from that POS Carcano & POS scope. He would be lucky to hit with shot 1, and he would not be able to reacquire in time after working the bolt. Say what you want...case closed.
RWT683 1 month ago
@RWT683
I have never shot a bolt action rifle in my life. Maybe you have. But it doesn't make an expert in the JFk case anyway. What I find really annoying . Is the way you say" My opinion is the best and anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid, or a agent of cia ..". Me I say. from my point of view, all the conspiracy theories (they are many) impeaches each other. None has convinced me so far. All you CTer can do is insulting people who don't share your views...that is not nice.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern No shooting a bolt rifle doesn't make one an expert on JFK or on rifles, but it does give one a little more perspective on how difficult it would have been for Oswald to make the shots alleged.
Several people including me have disproved many of your "facts" and statements, then you invent a new argument. That's called a priori, or having a pre-determined conclusion & doing whatever it takes to fit it. That's what the Warren Report did. That's not science. Good luck to you.
RWT683 1 month ago
@RWT683 I am sorry you did not disprove nothing. You just came forward with crazy arguments you couldn't prove. (Oswald was CIA, He was set up, he didn't fire ) you have absolutely nothing more than stupids book that reveal nothing and are made so people like you buy them. every book about the conspiracy impeaches the previous one and reveal nothing they can prove. The warren report was based on physical facts and real testimonies. But of course you don't belive it. So, end of story...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Look since you are clearly NOT an expert marksman why don't you trust the person most militaries around the world consider the greatest sniper that ever lived w / 93 confirmed kills and 2 different history channel specials dedicated to him and a lifetime of training Marine Corps Snipers. Carlos Hathcock has stated EMPHATICALLY that no one could have done what the Warren Comission said Oswald did. It is only amateurs that consider it possible.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108 Sure I am not an expert ! Never said I was. But I do my research . And your comment is typical of what you Cter are used to. As long as an info is conspiracy oriented you don't verify if it is true or not. If you had done your research properly you would know that Hathcock never said what you said. Craig Robert in his book Kill Zone said that he heard Hathcock say that. Roberts said he was himslef a expert shot wich was simply not true...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern
He records showed that he was not even a better shot than Oswald...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Oh really? Didn't verify if it's true or not? That's funny coming from you who IS SO SURE Roberts MUST be lying because he doesn't agree with you! Here's the exact quote : "Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (KILL ZONE, pp. 89-90).
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108 I know that exact quote . The problem is this Robert talking about what Hathcock allegedly said. Of course nobody else witnessed that conversation and Hathcock who died 5 years after that book was released never confirmed that. This always the same story with you Cters. you know things from a guy who said in a book that he heard another guy who said that somebody told him that maybe he was told that.....
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Witnessed that conversation? Paranoid much?? Since when has an author needed to prove he WASN"T a liar?? Do you have some information we don't?? This is a PERFECT example of the distraction and smear tactics of Lone nutters who will DO or SAY anything to try and prove their point. There are plenty of quotes in "Reclaiming history" by Vincent Bugliosi and while I don't necessarily agree with them I don't just go around accusing Buglisios of being a liar. You're such a joke.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
Roberts calls himself a sniper and says he's an expert on the matter of shooting. Well, let me have some doubt about a man who never scored any higher on a Marine riflerange than Oswald himself. Hathcock never participated to that book . So Roberts can perfectly have fabricated the story. Hathcock could kill a target at 2500 yards!!! How could he say that 88 yards is an impossible shoot. And no one ever proved that he made any test about je fk case.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern
And if I am a joke , you are THE joke.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern Again typical misinformation from the lonenutter. Craig Roberts was not trained as a sniper until AFTER his military service, specifically at the Tulsa Police Department. You said "Hathcock never participated in the book" and have no evidence WHATSOEVER to that effect. You are just calling someone a liar because you have no real arguments. What Hathcocks said stands and the onus of proof is on you to say Roberts lied. Anybody can just say "Liar, liar".
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@captainkavern Btw I'm pretty open minded. If you have PROOF that Roberts is lying, I'll hear it. (I'm assuming you do since you wouldn't make sure ridiculous accusations otherwise).
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108 Craig Roberts, contrary to his claims, was never a certified Marine Sniper. In point of fact, he never scored any higher than a sharpshooter himself, on any Marine Corps range. This little detail can be found in his resume, directly at his website, where he lists his Marine Marksmanship badge, as sharpshooter. He is clearly lying.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
Making a good demonstration means using an argument and illustrate it with example. I did so many time here. No one found any argument against mine on vietnam war, I put concrete numbers about the witnesses in dealey plaza, you can refer to books written by phony experts seeking for fame and your money.
captainkavern 1 month ago
@PabloPena108 I challenge your knowledge of history wich is naive and superficial. I am not an expert but you are much further from being one. you wouldn't last a minute in a highschool history class...the sad part is you think you are....
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern My friend I've investigated the Kennedy assassination for over 20 years. You wouldn't stand a chance in a debate against me, in fact, the only person who might be able to "who plays for your team" is Bugliosi and trust me I would destroy him too. High school history classes have to tow the state line which is pure stupidity and I feel sorry for anyone in High school who has to have their intelligence insulted like this.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@PabloPena108
Modesty doesn't seem to be your first quality...I mean studying the case of the JFK murder for 20 years and still believing there was a conspiracy shows that maybe should'nt have skipped history classes in highschool...
captainkavern 1 month ago
@captainkavern That's because you're stupid enough to think their is anything about the single shooter theory that COULD stand up to logic. The reason I would win a debate hands down is because the lone nutter theory is outrageously illogical, ignorant and patently stupid. It is the biggest insult to American society that has ever been perpetrated by our Gov't. It shows just how stupid sheeple such as yourself can even be convinced that their eyes are playing tricks on them. Unbelievable.
PabloPena108 1 month ago
@greggie0707
1, according to the MBT connaly is sitting excactely in front of kennedy: WRONG!
Connaly is sitting on a jumpseat lower than JFK and more inside the car. Plus at the time the bullet strikes connaly is turned to his right. So of course if seat connaly exactely in front of JFK facing forward the wound don't match!
2: Kennedy and Connaly are hit by the same bullet it is clearly visible on the zapruder film.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern so how does one bullet cause 7 wounds to jfk and conally? warren comission says only 3 shots were fired , so explain to me how 3 shots were fired . let me help you out here . one shot missed the car completely. it hit a curb and a fragment of curb caused a tiny cut on a bystander named james tague. (his cheek was cut). bullet 3 was the headshot on jfk. so that leaves bullet 2 , which was the magic bullet theory. and that caused the 7 wounds between both men.
greggie0707 2 months ago
@greggie0707
So let's say you are right and connaly and kennedy are hit by different bullets. Can you (or somebodyelse) explain to me where the bullet that entered Kennedy's back is? And don't tell me the bullet stayed inside the body because Kennedy wasn't made of Iron. The bullet should have excitde somewhere in the limo. No such thing happened.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern the back wound was shallow ,it was probed first with a finger and then with a surgical probe , i think its reasonable to say ce399 could be the bullet that caused the shallow wound and fell out of the wound . the bullet that hit connolly (or what was left of it ) fell on the floor and the nurse (in front of connally ) picked it up and placed it in her pocket.
fobrien1 2 months ago
to clev9880 - explain how the magic bullet theory works again?
greggie0707 2 months ago
this is to clev9880 , not to be rude but , the supposed 3 shots came in at 5.6 seconds and since oswalds "rifle' was a bolt and action rifle took 2.5 seconds to recycle. do the math.
greggie0707 2 months ago
@greggie0707
5.6 sec is the time between the second and the third (and last) shot. The entire shooting took 7 to 8 sec approximately. Which is more than enough to do what Oswald did.
And by the way in the movie JFK there is a sequence when they try to replicate Oswald 3 shot in 5.6 sec with the carchano and they actually do it! So Oswald shooting JFK from the book depositoey has nothing magical. It is just a fact.
captainkavern 2 months ago
I just can't believe how many people in the States buy into the Conspiracy Theory of JFK. However, in a survey of university educated Americans, the Conspiracy theory belief drops tremendously - less than 15%. What does this tell us? That it is the uneducated among us that is easily mislead and coerced by others to believe something that just isn't so.
MrMedicinebox 3 months ago
@MrMedicinebox OMG - I had no idea that 85% of Americans are uneducated.
OliverLarson 3 months ago
@OliverLarson I'm guessing you are one of those that believe in the big, grand conspiracy?
MrMedicinebox 3 months ago
@MrMedicinebox I guess he is like 85 percent of the American Public the one that can think for themselves that is !!
RMcGO28716 3 months ago
@RMcGO28716
85 percent of the americans are...naive, let's say...
captainkavern 2 months ago
if oswald did it . then why did jfk's head snap back? he should have been thrown foward.
greggie0707 3 months ago
@greggie0707 If you watch closely; head goes foward for 2 frames along with the pink mist-brain-skull matter going up and foward of JFK. The bullet damaged right side of his brain, causing severe muscular seizure to the left side of his body. Back brace kept him more vertical for headshot after upper back-neck wound from rifle.
clev9980 3 months ago
@clev9980 I guess you are a forensic pathologist & probably a Vincent Bugliosi disciple . Science is factual & the law of momentum cannot be expained away. The science in Bugliosi's book is is equa to that of a 2 grade classroom.
RMcGO28716 3 months ago
@RMcGO28716 Law of momentum is fine, but you have to have the training and experience in crime scene investigation and forensics to be able to apply principles in a correct manner. Oswald was the shooter period.
clev9980 3 months ago
@clev9980 yeah right
ludwigpearl 2 months ago
@clev9980
What I don't understand is that people don't even consider the possibility that oswald did it. Somebody told them that it was impossible. And yet there is no serious proof of a conspiration out there...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern Well I personally have no doubt that Oswald was involved in Kennedy's assassination in some way; I just don't think he acted alone. The government did a very bad job of lying and it spawned five decades of conspiracy talk by forcing the theories of lone gunman and magic bullet down our throats. Sometimes a lie is believable, but sometimes it's so bad that it's insulting because the source of the lie apparently assumes you are stupid enough to believe utter nonsense.
sean2015 2 months ago
@sean2015
The probleme with the conspiracy theory is that it's doing exactely what the gvt supposedly does to hide the truth. How many myths (the "magic" bullet theory is a simple ballistic fact: if you shoot to people sitting in front of each other at 88 yards with a bolt action rifle, the bullet will go through them) But for the conspiracy fansits to simple it HAS to be more complicated. So when something doesn't fit their Ideas they make it more complicated.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@sean2015
Like, the Zapruderfilm is fake, The backyard photos are fake (Marina Oswald said she took them and even most of the conspiracy fans believe it is true now), the autopsy photo are fake, come on! Oswald was CIA!!! so to kill a CIA agent you sent a night club owner to be sure he will be dead...yeah...right.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern Try this on for size: Oswald fired 3 shots from the Book Depository, and an accomplice (maybe one of Oswald's wacko friends) fired 3 shots from behind the picket fence. I agree there's no need for elaborate conspiracy theories, so this is a pretty simple explanation and it accounts for six different shots within ten seconds or so. One of the shots fired missed everything. One of them struck the curb near the underpass and injured James Teague.
sean2015 2 months ago
@sean2015
What wacko friends??? Nobody ever saw Oswald with "wacko" friends. He was quite lonely actually and didn't connect with people. He was in custody 48hrs before being killed, he talked to his brother, to his mother, to he wife, to a lawyer and did the midnight press conference. He never talked about accomplices...No such preoof exists. Only wild speculations and false stories...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@sean2015
Nobody ever saw anyone shooting from the grassy knoll at the time of the shooting. Some people said they heard shots coming from the railroad tracks (in front of the limousine). The only man who was able to see behind the picket fence was Lee Bowers. And he said he saw 2 men (too far from each other to be together) they seemed to react when the shot where fired but he never saw anyone firing. And he never said he saw.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@sean2015
Jean Hill the very same day of the shooting was interviewed by the tv. She said she did'nt see where the shots came from. 15years later (by that time the grassy knoll had became famous for the conspiracy buffs) she finally said she remembered seeing a flash of light, and smoke...not very credible...
captainkavern 2 months ago
@sean2015
Let's put it that way:
80% of the witness herd 3 shots from the book depository.
That very morning oswald brought a long bag contain curtain rods in the building.
Nobody ever found those curtain rods
The police found a rifle in the building that belong to oswald.
Nobody ever saw Oswald at the exact time of the shooting.
He gave 2 differents stories while in custody.
5 people saw Oswald kill tippit.
what else do you need?
captainkavern 2 months ago
@captainkavern As I said before, I do think Oswald was involved in the assassination and fired at least one of the shots. I just think that he had accomplices. Yes, I do believe the bag which he brought into work that day contained a rifle and not curtain rods as he claimed. But it would've been more believable for the government simply to have said that it was Oswald shooting from the book depository, and one of his wacko friends shooting from behind the picket fence.
sean2015 2 months ago
@sean2015
So if the Killing was made by Oswald and his wacko friends, why would the government try to help them by hiding the truth? They're just a bunch of losers. It doesn't make sense. They are not important enough to be protected.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@sean2015
If the government needed a pasty the last person to choose would be oswald. Why? He was not reliable at all, and very unstable,. And he was a communist.(or a Marxist). The biggest fear of thewarren commission was to find out there was a communist conspiracy because it could lead to a nuclear war. So if the government needed a patsy they probably would have picked up a right wing radical.
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707 People don't pay attention to detail. frames 313-314 not only show his head going foward...they also show his brain and skull matter going up and FOWARD.
clev9980 2 months ago
@clev9980
Absolutely! But you know. when the zapruder film was not available CTers said it was because it revealed the conspiracy. And then we all saw that the movie confirms the lone assassin theory. They say it is fake! Com on!
captainkavern 2 months ago
@greggie0707
If an object strikes you (a bullet ) the force of that object will make it go through your body.
If someone punches you in the head your head will go backward because the fist did not go through your head (normaly!) . Conclusion. A man shot is never "pushed" by the bullet. The bullet is to fast. Kennedy 's motion was a muscular reflex...
captainkavern 2 months ago
Yet we still have JFK records sealed. People are AFRAID to try and get them open due to what happened almost 50 years ago. People on this forum are AFRAID to contact their representatives and senators because of what happened 50 years ago. It wasn't just JFK, it was a message to all who seek to defy those in authority, That's why he was hit the way he was hit.
GregWn 4 months ago
@GregWn The records were sealed to avoid embarassing the Kennedy Family. By the time they are all released most of the baby boomer generation and all of the people who would or could have voted in 1960 will have passed on.
clev9980 2 months ago
@clev9980 They were not released due to the illegal activity of the CIA and FBI contained within the documents.
GregWn 2 months ago