Limited Atonement: "Is that Biblical?" (James White)

[polopowers1]

believers remember the death of Christ is first primarily to reveal the extolling Nature of God. To forgive sins to explain how God would produce eternal one fellowship is not the platform. It is God's Nature revealed. God is satisfied with Christ He cannot become unsatisfied. Christ died for the elect if He died for all His death unto God is not primary but secondary to saving. God did with exaltation unequaled He met Himself in Virtue to save. His Son by Nature meets exactly His Nature,

[motibi]

To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".

To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."

DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"

[yarrw]

If we look at the symbolism of blood and water on the day of atonement ceremony then we realise it represents the Spirit (eternal life) which Christ came to give. Jn 7:39

[Icannottolerateit]

We need preachers who go beyond mere study and mental worship to true and deep belief. The kind that does not prepare sermons but who are walking sermons. The kind of church that is not formal and structured but comparatively spontaneous because it follows the urgings of the spirit. The kind of church that meets not a few times a week but hours everyday with no intention of returning to "normal life".

God help the church.....especially in America where it is most deluded.

[polopowers1]

Christ cannot become un satisfactory to God once He has become satisfactory.Christ satisfied God no ta potential for man to believe .

[fenysy]

Thank you so much for this sermon! It helped me so much to understand, and to reason for a perfect Savior. May God help you in your ministry.

[CBALLEN]

How many orphans adopt their parents?

[rpavich]

You missed this one:

John 1:10

He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him.

Are you going to say that here the world means "everyone who ever lived?"

How about here:

John 18:20

Jesus replied, I have spoken publicly to the world...

Does "the world" here mean "everyone who ever lived"?

No...of course not...in the first case it means "the world of the unbelievers" and in the second case it means "publicly without hiding"

[rpavich]

Carolinagirlkim,

Why are you assuming that "the world" means "all people who ever lived and will ever live"?

That's a presupposition on your part that isn't warranted by the text itself. There is no clue in the text that this is the required meaning.

The world has a dozen meanings in John's writings alone.

[BlabItAndGrabIt]

Look how all people whoever exercised their free will succeeded!!!

Luke 13:24

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Great example of for the role of "free will" in salvation.

[rpavich]

Evidently the only person unwilling to interact with scripture in a meaningful way is...mikevoter.

That's a shame...so many assertions, so little in depth answers.

[invalidmail]

mikevoter, if Christ died for all sin for all people, then all would be in Heaven. Do you believe that all go to Heaven?

[ChristianFAQs]

CHrist did die for all and can forgive all of all sin if they come to him.

[ChristianZionist]

# "just as it is written, 'God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not and ears to hear not, down to this very day,'" (Rom. 11:8).

# "And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return and be forgiven,"

(Mark 4:11-12)

[siamus]

How do you figure that if Christ died for all people then all would go to heaven? What Christ did makes it possible for anyone to go to heaven if it's what they wish. Gotta read more than Ephesians, Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Hebrews...you get it I hope. The 13 Letters written by Paul are important, but don't disregard the rest. What did Jesus say to Nicodemus in John

[mikevoter]

Hebrews 10:29-30

. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

God holding every man responsible for the blood of Jesus shows He bled and died for all. Otherwise, the sinner could claim "not guilty, it was not shed for me! John 3:16 is the truth.

[rpavich]

Mikevoter,

People are punished for their sins; all have sinned.

simple.

No sinner can say that they have an excuse according to Romans.

Now have you actually STUDIED the arguments you're railing against or just throwing out assertions?

[mikevoter]

2 Peter 2:1

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

According to Reformed thinking, Christ did not die for the non-elect. Could false teachers be "elect" since He bought them?

Christ died for all, every man in the world see John 3:16

[rpavich]

Mikevoter,

Where in John 3:16 does it say that "Christ died for every man in the world"?

Here is the way it reads in my bible:

"This is the way God loved the world, that he gave His only son, that those who believe should not perish, but have eternal life"...

Now where does it say that He died for every man? It says that "the believing ones" or "those that believe" would have eternal life.

I agree 100%...

Now I ask again...WHY will some believe?

That's the issue. John 6:37-44 is the answer

[SeinUndZeit]

mikevoter. "Lord" in this verse is translated from "despotes" which is used 10 times in the NT and 20 times in the Septuigant. NOWHERE does it mean "Lord-redeemer". Lord also probably refers to God the Father because this passage of Scripture is a reference to the Old Testament. The "buying" has nothing to do with redemption. Who is reading into the text?

[mikevoter]

Rom. 9 I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4who are Israelites and to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul felt sorrow over some of the elect nation not being saved; so does Jesus, weeping over Jerusalem and all sinners.

[rpavich]

Mikevoter,

Instead of trotting out every Arminian "proof text" whether it pertains to salvation or not...why don't you take the time to study the issue from BOTH sides? All of the supposed "Calvinism Killers" that you've pulled out of your keyboard today are easily dealt with in context and they in no way change the answer. (Hint: Read the rest of Romans 9. Either Paul is schizophrenic, stupid or you are missing the meaning of this section of the text.)

[mikevoter]

Numbers 21:9: And Moses made a serpent of brass, and set it upon the standard: and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked unto the serpent of brass, he lived.

John 3:14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

Salvation by grace: whoever looks to Calvary is saved forever.

[rpavich]

Mike,

You, and a person who holds to the reformed faith would agree; those who look to Calvary are saved...no question about that.

But ask yourself: WHY do some look to Calvary and some not look to Calvary?

If God is trying His best to save everyone equally, then the difference MUST be found in the man who "looks to Calvary" true?

THAT'S the issue.

[mikevoter]

Limited Atonement flies in the face of many scriptures that plainly teach exactly the opposite. Christ died for every sin for every man except the sin of rejecting Him. All a sinner can ever "pay" God is his soul.

One sin = one soul. Thus, limited atonement leaves God with unpaid sins since the sinner is bankrupt after his "soul payment". God's justice is not satisfied with unpaid sins! Answer? Jesus paid it ALL and for ALL!

[rpavich]

Mikevoter,

"flies in the face of many scriptures that teach exactly the opposite"

Why don't you get specific...which "many" scriptures would you be referring to?

How about you:

Pick just one

Exegete it for us.

That would go a lot farther than a "naked assertion" by you don't you think?

[carolinagirlkim]

How about this verse:

John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith , Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This verse does not say that he came to take away the sin of the elect or the predestined. He died for the sin of the world - that's everyone.

[ATLpirate]

Another good one from James White.

Arminianism really doesn't make any sense, either Biblically or logically.

[Jesse859]

@ATLpirate I agree, but neither does Calvinism. There will be no more "ism's" in heaven, whether it be Calvinism, Arminianism, Morminism or whatever. It is obvious that every one of them simply causes pride in it's followers.

And how anyone can think that this is logical or biblical is mind boggeling. 1 John 2:2 clearly destroys limited atonement in spite of how some "ism" tries to explain away the plain meaning of it (a trait which is common among the followers of ALL the "ism's").