a democracy is where the whole populace votes, a republic is the populace electing people into government positions, like Rome a republic, Athens was a democracy
Yea he used mind control to get more votes, lol. Dude you're a clown. Oh btw Bush LITERALLY stole an election. Yea Obama's a tool, but calm down with the "nigger" shit.
@TheMuslumPedophile You're hurting your own cause more than you'll ever realize. You're automatically discredited when you post that kind of crap. What you are doing though is makeing it more difficult for those of us who have legitimate concerns about Obama because we'll automatically be associated with comments like yours and have to defend against accusations of bigotry first.
@TheMuslumPedophile -How the hell Obama "broke" into the white house? Could it have been the millions of votes he received? You are a confused ignorant ass bastard. It was BUSH and Scalita who BROKE into the white house. Your screen name indicates your maturity and education level. I'm independent I have my own concerns. I will voice them in a way that is not inflamatory. BTW, I was told muslims are sand nigers. Keep the N word on your farm with your cousin you are humping.
Right, because you're better than all muslims. *Obviously*. How much you want to bet MuslimPedophile isn't Muslim, or is an extremely rare specimen? Dumbass.
this is also what happens when superstitious slack-jawed yokels vote "with their gut" ie feelings for manipulative sellouts. the stupidity of the american people must be taken into account before laying all the blame on a broken system
I did some research, and accurate number are very hard to come by, but the best I could find is this:
•820,000 abortions in 2005.
•232,000 women were currently taken concrete steps towards adoptions 1995.
That would suggest that in addition to the millions of neglected, and abused children that exist in the nation today, we would be adding approx. 588,000 unwanted children into the "System" EVERY YEAR!
1973: over 1 million abortions (when it was not legal and population was 1/3 smaller).
Make your calls and let them know that a bill that has a mandate without giving us an affordable option is not acceptable.
If you don't have the phone numbers you can find them on my page.
We also need to remember those who have stood in the way of real reform (all republicans, a handful of dems and Lieberman) and vote accordingly in the future.
I never said that you moron.You just assume that.I do have a point.A living being was created and it shouldn't be killed.There are millions of people who can't have kids who would gladly give it a good life there for killing it is not the answer
Almost everyone agrees that you should not end human life. That is really not what the abortion debate is about. It's about whether you believe that making abortion illegal will solve the problem. As evidenced by countries where abortion is illegal it does not. Abortion being illegal simply results in more suicide and back-alley abortions often resulting in death. If the goal is preventing abortion put the money currently wasted on anti-abortion activities into contraception and education.
But by holding your position more living beings die. Do you not see the internal flaw in logic? Your position is that abortion should be illegal on principal regardless of the effects.
My conclusion is not that you do not care about protecting human life, you surely do. My conclusion is that you do not care WHAT IS MOST EFFECTIVE in protecting human life.
If 1 life ends due to abortion being legal and 1.1 life ends due to abortion being illegal I side with the smaller number.
Did you read my conclusion? You clearly care! I state that you care! The problem is your not concerned about what is most effective. Making abortion illegal is not most effective as show by the evidence. That is the entirety of my point.
You don't care what is most effective to protect life. You DO care about protecting life.
I hope you can either simply accept this, present evidence to refute it, or point out where my logic is wrong.
Well,if we make it legal it will likely happen more anyway so either way it will happen why should we show tolerance towards it.We need to make it illegal and educate people on the fact that they need to use protection or abstain from having sex if they are not ready for kids
That's all great and peachy that you want it illegal, but honestly, what if the mother can't deliver the baby and survive labor? Or a woman was raped? Or the baby was developing in the fallopian tube and would kill the mother? Or the baby was shown to have defects such as down syndrome or severely retarded?
While I think it shouldn't be a form of birth control, I think for truly medical purposes it should be allowed. If you're using it for birth control, you should pay. If not, then cover it.
The evidence shows, in countries where it is illegal, that:
1. There are not fewer abortions.
2. There are more suicides for women who become pregnant.
3. Many more women die due to botched abortions.
This is the #1 step in my logic.
I completely agree with you about education and stated previously that your side of this argument would do way more good if you chose to spend money on education instead of lobbying, condoms instead of billboards, and abstinence programs instead of commercials.
and I would use education as well but I would outlaw it.I don't know why other countries have more suicides and such but that does not mean it should be legal.Just because people still commit suicide does not mean we made suicide legal
I lived in Nepal for six months. Girls would routinely kill themselves to avoid the social stigma of being unwed mothers. Abortion was illegal and not an option.
You are okay with the fact that more people will die as a result of abortion being illegal. That is okay, but you need to at least recognize it in your position.
Is Abortion being illegal really worth two deaths instead of one?
Whether they have an abortion or they kill themselves the fetus dies you know. I go with the idea that less death is a good thing.
Being in favor of abortion being legal is NOT the same as being in favor of abortion. That said I don't want the government to tell my wife or daughters that they must die of a failed pregnancy or kill themselves after a rape to make others feel moral.
we already stated that if the pregnancy endangers the mother that would be a medical decision and the person wouldn't kill themselves because there is no social stigma and adoption is always an option.Then,there is always other options including the safe Haven law
Did you really just say that there is no social stigma against unwed mothers? You honestly believe that there are no 15-19 year old girls who would kill themselves if they found out they were pregnant?
Okay, what about Rape then? Incest? If you are willing to make exception for medical issues what else qualifies?
Many people who are Anti-Abortion seem to believe that most women get abortions at the drop of a hat. In reality there are extremely few who don't deal with the decision forever.
If we went down your path there would be more death than there is now, more women and fetuses would be terminated, and raped women and children would have no choice over their own bodies.
You claim to be in support of life while taking a stance which causes more death. Your position is amoral and you are lucky to live in a world run by more level headed people.
your logic refuses to realize that at least in this universe one can not kill a person that has not been created yet. Surely you can sport more compassion to an existing person than to a fictional one?
Whether the baby has been conceived or not is irrelevant. The fact remains that, whether we are speaking of abstinence or abortion, the net result is the same; no baby is born.
And in either case, the baby will never have any experiences or memories, will never experience pleasure or pain, or have any wants or desires. The level of brain activity required for the baby to experience such things will never be achieved in either scenario, whether through abstinence or abortion. They are the same.
yes,but if the baby was never conceived you did not kill a living being you just opted not to make one.With an abortion something was living and then it was killed.
True, but if the embryo never develops long enough to possess any kind of feelings or awareness, then it is no more alive than a vegetable. The only difference is, unlike a vegetable, an embryo has the POTENTIAL to mature into an adult, and most importantly, the potential to develop life experiences and self-awareness.
Abstinence and abortion are the same because they both eliminate the possibility for POTENTIAL life experience, by terminating those experiences before they can begin.
Well compared to the life I live yours is one of meaningless banal drudgery, should I snuff you to avoid the terrible waste of time and energy you have become? No. Even people like you are entitled to live life unjudged by higher standards. You should be allowed your feeble crawl across the petri dish.
That's strange it seems more like a pro abortionist twisting the argument to suit their own ends. Why do you like killing babies so much, what motivates your lust for this behaviour?
Typical. You would like to characterize me as "lusting to kill babies", which isn't true. And the reason you resort to this name calling is because you have no real argument.
Killing an adult human, who can see and think and hear, is not the same as killing something that has no feelings or awareness whatsoever.
And that is why abstinence and abortion produce the same net result; they both eliminate a potential life experience, before that life experience has begun.
You are a subnormal scumbag idiot. You see no difference between executing a baby and not having a fuck because as I stated earlier you are a subnormal scumbag. The problem is with you and your utter stupidity. I pity you, you dumb fucking wanker.
"You see no difference between executing a baby and not having a fuck..."
Very good, you're finally understanding me, although I would word it differently. One could say that virgins are like serial baby terminators. They eliminate a future baby every time they fail to get pregnant. But, the future baby never suffers, because it never achieves awareness, just like a human zygote has no awareness before it is terminated. So does that mean virgins are evil baby killers?
Your inability to understand reality is a big problem for you. You don't understand the difference between reality and your mindless bovine thoughts. You don't understand semantics, logic or even mathematics. You must have been told on numerous occasions to stay away from people and now you know why. You're a subnormal retard, your best course of action is suicide, go on make everyone who knows you happy, do it for Christmas.
And you can't win an argument simply by being "meaner" than ur opponent. You actually need to make some points about the subject matter, instead of personally attacking your opponent over and over and over again, like a broken record.
You have been unable to produce anything resembling a logical point so far. It's true. Go back and read all ur comments and you'll see. Why can't you see it when ur wrong? No really? What the fuck is wrong with you?
No you dumb fuck you have mental problems, your mind does not work properly. You don't see the difference between aborting a million children and sitting in a chair. You are broken in a bad way and you should be institutionalized. Now fuck off and stop boring me you fucking hideous mutant shithead.
Well, maybe you're a decent person then...your response threw me off. My scenario for you was a real one, and I wasn't wishing your death...I was asking you to tell me your choice (in a rough way, I admit).
There are NOT millions of people who would "gladly" adopt a child with HIV, or Down's Syndrome, or MD...
And you must realize that just because someone (me) thinks abortion should be legal, that does not mean that someone (me) thinks it is a good thing to do.
I've had this discussion many, many times, Marie (if I may call you that)...so I have discovered that there are several factors that, inclusively, determine why folks like you think abortion should be illegal.
They are: religious fervor, scientific misinformation, a strong desire to impose one's morals on others, a lack of empathy for other living and *breathing* humans, or just an inability to imagine that others see life differently.
Neither of them I just think it is wrong to kill anything.I understand that many children do not get adopted and that is a sad,sad thing but give the child a chance instead of killing him/her
I am fine with that and I do mean anything unless it's defending yourself or a insect though I had a real problem with killing the rats at our house.I was pretty upset.
OK, so self-defense WOULD include aborting if the doctor said your pregnancy was killing you then, right? That was my opener, if you recall...
So it's ok to kill insects, and I presume "germs" as well. But what about a human life that is at the zygote stage, just a bunch of cells multiplying? How is that different than killing a bacterial infection?
And even if you view the zygote as different, what about a woman on the pill who doesn't know she got pregnant, starts the pill again, and kills it?
Isn't that homicide?
It's a very tricky subject, and therefore not something that should be banned outright, as you suggest. Both by logic, and by what the majority thinks, which is how this country is supposed to run.
It could be involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide but obviously we aren't going to bring charges onto the lady I'm sure she would be devastated and wouldn't have meant to kill her unborn child
But the mere fact that you think no charges should be brought makes it not a crime, or should make it not a crime, in your eyes, right?
See, this is why I consider it too gray an area to have absolute, legal stances on.
Now, personal choices, opinion, and conversations with others? As Cenk would say, "have at it, hoss". But you can't BAN something so clearly gray. Then we really could have legal cases where the pill example was "illegal abortion". Her word against someone else's.
Well,laws always have loop holes just throw that one in unless you want to fine or jail her for a short period like 6 months or something but it would bring undue grief upon the mother if it was truly an accident and I don't think any jury would find the mother guilty
No,your the douche bag.You're the one who was very asinine and rude when trying to make a point.I didn't impose my views on anyone.I said my view point I never said anyone had to agree dumbass
It's sort of funny how that works! The people who say that the most are looking to ban abortion. But yet they're fine with putting people in prison for using marijuana and declaring war on other countries for thinly veiled greed, and blowing up clinics/killing doctors. That's called hypocrisy.
Those issues go hand-in-hand, seemingly. People all think of themselves as an individual, when in fact they are nothing more than slight deviations of a set of psychological generalities. People are predictable. Don't be surprised when someone takes something you say and associate it with something else. The arguments run together quite often.
Neocon (new conservative) is the word used to describe follower of that ideology. Typically, neocons want inner and outer instability to more effectively control the populace. Using religion as a tool for sociological, inner stability, creating wars for income and nationalism for "divide & conquer" effect are trademarks of the neocons. The Bush administration where neocon run, and several of the Obama appointed officials are neocon. In Europe the neocons are also growing.
Dem's for the major loose sadly. I can't believe they manage to mess up every fucking thing they try out for. It must be some sort of record for useless politicians.
To bad Obama is a sellout bitch. He might have been able to pull them in the right direction had he been anything like what he promised the voters that elected him.
I'm sad to say: The Dem's AND Obama fully deserve to loose in a big way during thenext elections if they don't get this mess sorted out.
@manuelschindler good luck we just lose as much as we lose now. I say fuck it, I give up, I quit, it all fucking pointless. It seems moderates and conservatives hate our guts and they probably kill us if they could. so I say fuck em let them run themselves into the ground.
How about glib sarcastic comments you try making an argument? Oh wait you can't, all your reasoning is based on iron-age mythology and emotional innuendo :D
The reason Republicans are against abortions is because they don't want to become a minority, and everyone knows that if you could tell your fetus was a republican you would abort his ass.
Ben Nelson is another reason why I support affirmative action. It's infuriating to know he and his kin will forever profit from his useless, reactionary time in the Senate.
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Ben Nelson is Sarah Palin's DICKLESS and BALLESS BITCH and PUSSY! Palin is a SUPERIOR politician and statesman than Nelson could ever be. She is also MORE MAN than he is for Nelson wears the skirt in his family while his wife wears the pants!
u go and TROLL every single fucking video with "sara palin" this and that .. shut the fuck up stupid little kid go watch men in tights wrestle ... u faggot ...
hey that is a good idea. no more insurance coverage for abortions would hopefully reduce the number performed as there are way too many performed for sorry-ass reasons. although i would prefer for insurance companies to do this on their own and not via the state.
@stefminus Not necessarily. People will find cheaper (and probably unsanitary) ways to get abortions. But yes, there are too many abortions going on in this country. There needs to be a solution but cutting insurance coverage won't stop the abortions.
That's the unfortunate part about being a tolerant liberal, it's a mindset condition to give in (by tolerance) to anyone who will not concede. Don't give me a tolerant liberal, give me a radical one! Vote the fucking pansies out next election and bring in some liberals with balls.
I say we give the right-wing what they want. That is, the privatization of all things in the government, and the ridding of all regulations stopping businesses from acting like dicks. Then, after around 5-10 years, we can unite the workers against the capitalists. Simple as that.
i cant believe that bill ever passed and i wish that the democrats would accually ban together and say fuck all the republicans and fuck u obama if u dont sign this we will find a way to punish u and that is what should be done i wish things would be that ha bisky it just some democrats r being fucking paid off and others just want to go with the flow and the few who r fighting feel like they cant really fight anymore caz obama is like no we r going to listen to the republicans
man... going from a dream to a nightmare... I have to go live somewhere else... this is a mess. This country is already no more number 1, and it is going to drop very fast... Man... come Obama... if you can't do shit, it is over. You will be the first president in a long time who will NOT be reelected. That's really sad. While it is not 100% your fault, you are responsible for not acting when you should be there.
Oh yeah, the UK is doing great with its government that is constantly seeking more invasive ways to watch your every move. Canada would definitely be my choice.
you are speaking of the amendment that Nelson is adding. That amendment is not related to the budget. That amendment is not related to the public option. Read your own post before you comment on how someone else is "wrong"
go independents, unite America... and btw America is a Republic, not Democracy, not saying vote republican over democratic but ya
Nickelback222555 2 years ago
It's a democratic republic...
Exitus767 2 years ago 2
a democracy is where the whole populace votes, a republic is the populace electing people into government positions, like Rome a republic, Athens was a democracy
Nickelback222555 2 years ago
You guys are cannibalizing each other. I love it. Keep it up.
whereareyoujohngalt 2 years ago 2
@whereareyoujohngalt You're right, republicants are cannibalizing eachother with their rampant stupidity every day of their hypocritical lives.
BCRice111 2 years ago
I'm assuming you mean the right/left wing + weird extremist bit that has become the core of our current political events?
jefevonQ 2 years ago
Yea he used mind control to get more votes, lol. Dude you're a clown. Oh btw Bush LITERALLY stole an election. Yea Obama's a tool, but calm down with the "nigger" shit.
415jdookie 2 years ago
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He would be figuring right, Obama is just a scared little nigger who broke into the white house and stole the country.
TheMuslumPedophile 2 years ago
what the fuck is wrong with you?
SupermansDead93 2 years ago
@TheMuslumPedophile You're hurting your own cause more than you'll ever realize. You're automatically discredited when you post that kind of crap. What you are doing though is makeing it more difficult for those of us who have legitimate concerns about Obama because we'll automatically be associated with comments like yours and have to defend against accusations of bigotry first.
whereareyoujohngalt 2 years ago
@TheMuslumPedophile -How the hell Obama "broke" into the white house? Could it have been the millions of votes he received? You are a confused ignorant ass bastard. It was BUSH and Scalita who BROKE into the white house. Your screen name indicates your maturity and education level. I'm independent I have my own concerns. I will voice them in a way that is not inflamatory. BTW, I was told muslims are sand nigers. Keep the N word on your farm with your cousin you are humping.
DrSagaciousone 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
obama > skanky slut palin
me>muslims>u
sup now?
mostecri 2 years ago
@ mostecri: I really get annoyed when people use sense in one issue to justify nonsense in another issue, which is what your comment is about.
rajasmasala 2 years ago
get a clue
mostecri 2 years ago
Right, because you're better than all muslims. *Obviously*. How much you want to bet MuslimPedophile isn't Muslim, or is an extremely rare specimen? Dumbass.
rajasmasala 2 years ago
Comment removed
mostecri 2 years ago
i bet he has more of a clue
than u
get mad about it!
mostecri 2 years ago
no, unlikely. Or that "u" know more than me. Or are better than most muslims.
rajasmasala 2 years ago
so grammar police time to police your own posts!
get a clue!
unlikely!
mostecri 2 years ago
this is also what happens when superstitious slack-jawed yokels vote "with their gut" ie feelings for manipulative sellouts. the stupidity of the american people must be taken into account before laying all the blame on a broken system
MikeRoch6969 2 years ago 2
As someone who grew up as a 'slack-jawed yokel', I'm prone to agree. I'm still insulted, but I agree.
Aren't we supposed to 'be' the system?
jefevonQ 2 years ago
We have to remember that Obama voted present and that means I don't know. The big pussy.
RedShirtDiaries 2 years ago 2
It's easier to kill a coward than it is to insult one.
jotunobsidianeyes 2 years ago
Okay, it's settled -
Barack is ball-less!
DillonX 2 years ago 4
@DillonX
What sounds better? ball-less Obama or Barack O-ball-less
fluffybunny937 2 years ago
i dun get what the fuss about Obama is all about.
i thought Obama left the shaping of the bill to the Congressmen/Senators, and he'll just sign or veto whatever comes out at the end?
Ristar85 2 years ago
I did some research, and accurate number are very hard to come by, but the best I could find is this:
•820,000 abortions in 2005.
•232,000 women were currently taken concrete steps towards adoptions 1995.
That would suggest that in addition to the millions of neglected, and abused children that exist in the nation today, we would be adding approx. 588,000 unwanted children into the "System" EVERY YEAR!
1973: over 1 million abortions (when it was not legal and population was 1/3 smaller).
fret2424 2 years ago
The Hyde Amendment already outlaws federal funds to Abortions, how much more does this man want?
astrolabe1976 2 years ago
Someone wanna remind me, we can vote how often for the streamy award?
is it ONCE a day?
WARDOG1138 2 years ago
Make your calls and let them know that a bill that has a mandate without giving us an affordable option is not acceptable.
If you don't have the phone numbers you can find them on my page.
We also need to remember those who have stood in the way of real reform (all republicans, a handful of dems and Lieberman) and vote accordingly in the future.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
people shouldn't be able to have abortions anyway
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
even people who were raped?
weemadjake 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No,no abortions.If you can't keep the baby then give it up for adoption.Don't kill the baby
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
What about ectopic pregnancy? Should the woman die due to a pregnancy that won't carry through to term anyway?
HumanisticJones 2 years ago 4
So you're a woman, right?
I hope you get a life-threatening pregnancy. Then we can talk.
aaronsande 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thanks and I'll be sure to come haunt the hell out of you for being a asinine douchebag
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
You can't counter it can you? LMAO
Projecting your douchebag nature on others doesn't make you look better.
You have no point. You just oppose it, and everyone who disagrees is an idiot. Nice. FOAD.
aaronsande 2 years ago
I never said that you moron.You just assume that.I do have a point.A living being was created and it shouldn't be killed.There are millions of people who can't have kids who would gladly give it a good life there for killing it is not the answer
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Almost everyone agrees that you should not end human life. That is really not what the abortion debate is about. It's about whether you believe that making abortion illegal will solve the problem. As evidenced by countries where abortion is illegal it does not. Abortion being illegal simply results in more suicide and back-alley abortions often resulting in death. If the goal is preventing abortion put the money currently wasted on anti-abortion activities into contraception and education.
siloria 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
fine by me but it still needs to be illegal and anyone who dares give a back alley abortion needs to be punished for murder.
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
So you really done care what is the most effective in protecting human life.
Got it.
Thank you for your honesty.
siloria 2 years ago
Never said that.
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
1. Making abortion illegal does not reduce human deaths. Compare rates of suicide and death due to failed abortions to confirm this.
2. Being aware of #1 you want to make abortion illegal.
Conclusion: You do not care what is the most effective in protecting human life.
Where is my logic wrong here?
siloria 2 years ago 2
That is ridiculous.I do care because I am saying not to kill a living being
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
But by holding your position more living beings die. Do you not see the internal flaw in logic? Your position is that abortion should be illegal on principal regardless of the effects.
My conclusion is not that you do not care about protecting human life, you surely do. My conclusion is that you do not care WHAT IS MOST EFFECTIVE in protecting human life.
If 1 life ends due to abortion being legal and 1.1 life ends due to abortion being illegal I side with the smaller number.
siloria 2 years ago 4
Well then,wtf are we sitting here debating for if you'll always come to the conclusion that I don't care.Move along then and stop talking to me
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Did you read my conclusion? You clearly care! I state that you care! The problem is your not concerned about what is most effective. Making abortion illegal is not most effective as show by the evidence. That is the entirety of my point.
You don't care what is most effective to protect life. You DO care about protecting life.
I hope you can either simply accept this, present evidence to refute it, or point out where my logic is wrong.
Thank you.
siloria 2 years ago 2
Well,if we make it legal it will likely happen more anyway so either way it will happen why should we show tolerance towards it.We need to make it illegal and educate people on the fact that they need to use protection or abstain from having sex if they are not ready for kids
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
That's all great and peachy that you want it illegal, but honestly, what if the mother can't deliver the baby and survive labor? Or a woman was raped? Or the baby was developing in the fallopian tube and would kill the mother? Or the baby was shown to have defects such as down syndrome or severely retarded?
While I think it shouldn't be a form of birth control, I think for truly medical purposes it should be allowed. If you're using it for birth control, you should pay. If not, then cover it.
MLadyAzzera 2 years ago 2
The evidence shows, in countries where it is illegal, that:
1. There are not fewer abortions.
2. There are more suicides for women who become pregnant.
3. Many more women die due to botched abortions.
This is the #1 step in my logic.
I completely agree with you about education and stated previously that your side of this argument would do way more good if you chose to spend money on education instead of lobbying, condoms instead of billboards, and abstinence programs instead of commercials.
siloria 2 years ago 3
and I would use education as well but I would outlaw it.I don't know why other countries have more suicides and such but that does not mean it should be legal.Just because people still commit suicide does not mean we made suicide legal
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
I lived in Nepal for six months. Girls would routinely kill themselves to avoid the social stigma of being unwed mothers. Abortion was illegal and not an option.
You are okay with the fact that more people will die as a result of abortion being illegal. That is okay, but you need to at least recognize it in your position.
That is and always was my entire point.
siloria 2 years ago 4
wow, o-o
You go dude....Or girl
billybatson55 2 years ago
Killing yourself is only a routine in those neighborhoods. Why is it ok to kill kids but it's terrible when they kill themselves?
nilbud 2 years ago
Is this really a question?
Is Abortion being illegal really worth two deaths instead of one?
Whether they have an abortion or they kill themselves the fetus dies you know. I go with the idea that less death is a good thing.
Being in favor of abortion being legal is NOT the same as being in favor of abortion. That said I don't want the government to tell my wife or daughters that they must die of a failed pregnancy or kill themselves after a rape to make others feel moral.
siloria 2 years ago 4
we already stated that if the pregnancy endangers the mother that would be a medical decision and the person wouldn't kill themselves because there is no social stigma and adoption is always an option.Then,there is always other options including the safe Haven law
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Did you really just say that there is no social stigma against unwed mothers? You honestly believe that there are no 15-19 year old girls who would kill themselves if they found out they were pregnant?
Okay, what about Rape then? Incest? If you are willing to make exception for medical issues what else qualifies?
Many people who are Anti-Abortion seem to believe that most women get abortions at the drop of a hat. In reality there are extremely few who don't deal with the decision forever.
siloria 2 years ago
There is no other exception.Not for rape,not for incest not for anything
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
@QueenBeeBeeMarie that's because you're irrational and brainwashed by your church. I'm done with you.
Xerxes4242 2 years ago 3
I love how you assume I go to church.You know what they say about assuming lol
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
My concluding thought:
If we went down your path there would be more death than there is now, more women and fetuses would be terminated, and raped women and children would have no choice over their own bodies.
You claim to be in support of life while taking a stance which causes more death. Your position is amoral and you are lucky to live in a world run by more level headed people.
Thank you.
siloria 2 years ago 3
I told you there wouldn't be more death because there would be options such as the safe haven law and adoption if they didn't want to keep the baby
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
I wonder if you would still feel this way if you became a victim of incest or rape....?
veganmetalmilitia 2 years ago 2
@nilbud every sperm should become a baby!
Xerxes4242 2 years ago
Perhaps your mother should have swallowed, I'll grant you that. Don't put words in my mouth you don't have the iq.
nilbud 2 years ago
"Don't put words in my mouth you don't have the iq. "
I've seen your posts, neither do you.
Stop trolling.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
Oh look a microbrain, hello microbrain,
nilbud 2 years ago
Typical response from a piss ant. Go back to the conversation.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
nilbud,
your logic refuses to realize that at least in this universe one can not kill a person that has not been created yet. Surely you can sport more compassion to an existing person than to a fictional one?
martygrim 2 years ago 2
While phantom pregnancies do occur they aren't the kind I'm referring to.
nilbud 2 years ago
Unless you get pregnant and produce a baby every 9 months, you are killing a potential baby. That is a fact.
If you feel obligated to save the lives of babies, then you should ALWAYS be pregnant.
Furthermore, if you choose to become pregnant with one man, and not with another, then you have just killed a baby.
If you preach abstinence, then you are committing a holocaust.
This is the irrational thinking of anti-abortionists.
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago 4
that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
@QueenBeeBeeMarie your statements are pretty ridiculous.
Xerxes4242 2 years ago
No,I disagree
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Really? How is the net result of abstinence any different from the net result of an abortion? Answer: the net result is the same, no baby.
You think that's incorrect? Prove it, or shut up.
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago
You shut up!
and it is different because your not pregnant so the baby was never conceived
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Whether the baby has been conceived or not is irrelevant. The fact remains that, whether we are speaking of abstinence or abortion, the net result is the same; no baby is born.
And in either case, the baby will never have any experiences or memories, will never experience pleasure or pain, or have any wants or desires. The level of brain activity required for the baby to experience such things will never be achieved in either scenario, whether through abstinence or abortion. They are the same.
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago
yes,but if the baby was never conceived you did not kill a living being you just opted not to make one.With an abortion something was living and then it was killed.
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
True, but if the embryo never develops long enough to possess any kind of feelings or awareness, then it is no more alive than a vegetable. The only difference is, unlike a vegetable, an embryo has the POTENTIAL to mature into an adult, and most importantly, the potential to develop life experiences and self-awareness.
Abstinence and abortion are the same because they both eliminate the possibility for POTENTIAL life experience, by terminating those experiences before they can begin.
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago
Yeah, if abstinence worked.
fanaticmoron 2 years ago
Potential is all very well but actual is real.
nilbud 2 years ago
Well compared to the life I live yours is one of meaningless banal drudgery, should I snuff you to avoid the terrible waste of time and energy you have become? No. Even people like you are entitled to live life unjudged by higher standards. You should be allowed your feeble crawl across the petri dish.
nilbud 2 years ago
You forgot the remainder left over which in this case is a clumpy bunch of foetus chunks and a freshly mauled vagina.
nilbud 2 years ago
That's strange it seems more like a pro abortionist twisting the argument to suit their own ends. Why do you like killing babies so much, what motivates your lust for this behaviour?
nilbud 2 years ago
Typical. You would like to characterize me as "lusting to kill babies", which isn't true. And the reason you resort to this name calling is because you have no real argument.
Killing an adult human, who can see and think and hear, is not the same as killing something that has no feelings or awareness whatsoever.
And that is why abstinence and abortion produce the same net result; they both eliminate a potential life experience, before that life experience has begun.
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago 7
You are a subnormal scumbag idiot. You see no difference between executing a baby and not having a fuck because as I stated earlier you are a subnormal scumbag. The problem is with you and your utter stupidity. I pity you, you dumb fucking wanker.
nilbud 2 years ago
"You see no difference between executing a baby and not having a fuck..."
Very good, you're finally understanding me, although I would word it differently. One could say that virgins are like serial baby terminators. They eliminate a future baby every time they fail to get pregnant. But, the future baby never suffers, because it never achieves awareness, just like a human zygote has no awareness before it is terminated. So does that mean virgins are evil baby killers?
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago
Your inability to understand reality is a big problem for you. You don't understand the difference between reality and your mindless bovine thoughts. You don't understand semantics, logic or even mathematics. You must have been told on numerous occasions to stay away from people and now you know why. You're a subnormal retard, your best course of action is suicide, go on make everyone who knows you happy, do it for Christmas.
nilbud 2 years ago
You are obviously projecting.
And you can't win an argument simply by being "meaner" than ur opponent. You actually need to make some points about the subject matter, instead of personally attacking your opponent over and over and over again, like a broken record.
You have been unable to produce anything resembling a logical point so far. It's true. Go back and read all ur comments and you'll see. Why can't you see it when ur wrong? No really? What the fuck is wrong with you?
wtfdoihavetodohere 2 years ago
No you dumb fuck you have mental problems, your mind does not work properly. You don't see the difference between aborting a million children and sitting in a chair. You are broken in a bad way and you should be institutionalized. Now fuck off and stop boring me you fucking hideous mutant shithead.
nilbud 2 years ago
Well, maybe you're a decent person then...your response threw me off. My scenario for you was a real one, and I wasn't wishing your death...I was asking you to tell me your choice (in a rough way, I admit).
There are NOT millions of people who would "gladly" adopt a child with HIV, or Down's Syndrome, or MD...
And you must realize that just because someone (me) thinks abortion should be legal, that does not mean that someone (me) thinks it is a good thing to do.
aaronsande 2 years ago
I've had this discussion many, many times, Marie (if I may call you that)...so I have discovered that there are several factors that, inclusively, determine why folks like you think abortion should be illegal.
They are: religious fervor, scientific misinformation, a strong desire to impose one's morals on others, a lack of empathy for other living and *breathing* humans, or just an inability to imagine that others see life differently.
So which is it for you? Or which ones?
aaronsande 2 years ago
Neither of them I just think it is wrong to kill anything.I understand that many children do not get adopted and that is a sad,sad thing but give the child a chance instead of killing him/her
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
OK, I understand and can accept your sentiment. Do you mean any thing at all, or did you mean to say "any human life"?
I'm seeking clarification because I want to discuss what you really think, not what I think you think =D
aaronsande 2 years ago
I am fine with that and I do mean anything unless it's defending yourself or a insect though I had a real problem with killing the rats at our house.I was pretty upset.
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
OK, so self-defense WOULD include aborting if the doctor said your pregnancy was killing you then, right? That was my opener, if you recall...
So it's ok to kill insects, and I presume "germs" as well. But what about a human life that is at the zygote stage, just a bunch of cells multiplying? How is that different than killing a bacterial infection?
aaronsande 2 years ago 2
And even if you view the zygote as different, what about a woman on the pill who doesn't know she got pregnant, starts the pill again, and kills it?
Isn't that homicide?
It's a very tricky subject, and therefore not something that should be banned outright, as you suggest. Both by logic, and by what the majority thinks, which is how this country is supposed to run.
=D
aaronsande 2 years ago
It could be involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide but obviously we aren't going to bring charges onto the lady I'm sure she would be devastated and wouldn't have meant to kill her unborn child
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
But the mere fact that you think no charges should be brought makes it not a crime, or should make it not a crime, in your eyes, right?
See, this is why I consider it too gray an area to have absolute, legal stances on.
Now, personal choices, opinion, and conversations with others? As Cenk would say, "have at it, hoss". But you can't BAN something so clearly gray. Then we really could have legal cases where the pill example was "illegal abortion". Her word against someone else's.
aaronsande 2 years ago
Well,laws always have loop holes just throw that one in unless you want to fine or jail her for a short period like 6 months or something but it would bring undue grief upon the mother if it was truly an accident and I don't think any jury would find the mother guilty
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Survey says.... YOU ARE THE DOUCHE BAG.
Protip: Don't impose your views on others, douche.
m3th0dm4n 2 years ago 4
No,your the douche bag.You're the one who was very asinine and rude when trying to make a point.I didn't impose my views on anyone.I said my view point I never said anyone had to agree dumbass
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
I forgot why I don't argue with retards. Thanks for reminding me.
m3th0dm4n 2 years ago 2
same to you Einstein
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
"I didn't impose my views on anyone."
It's sort of funny how that works! The people who say that the most are looking to ban abortion. But yet they're fine with putting people in prison for using marijuana and declaring war on other countries for thinly veiled greed, and blowing up clinics/killing doctors. That's called hypocrisy.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
Okay I never said a word about Marijuana or war or any of that crap.That has nothing to do with this
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Those issues go hand-in-hand, seemingly. People all think of themselves as an individual, when in fact they are nothing more than slight deviations of a set of psychological generalities. People are predictable. Don't be surprised when someone takes something you say and associate it with something else. The arguments run together quite often.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
Well,I am debating one of them not all of those.I don't have time to debate all the things wrong with our system.
QueenBeeBeeMarie 2 years ago
Assume makes an ass out of u and me.
nilbud 2 years ago
Your response is to what statement? No one here even used the word 'assume'.
jefevonQ 2 years ago
You, the fucking moron making stupid assumptions, that's who you unbelievable dunce.
nilbud 2 years ago
what are neocons?
weemadjake 2 years ago
neo-conservatives, a specific kind of conservative with varying beliefs from traditional conservatives. Want more info use wiki or googe o.0;
Senakujin 2 years ago
Neocon (new conservative) is the word used to describe follower of that ideology. Typically, neocons want inner and outer instability to more effectively control the populace. Using religion as a tool for sociological, inner stability, creating wars for income and nationalism for "divide & conquer" effect are trademarks of the neocons. The Bush administration where neocon run, and several of the Obama appointed officials are neocon. In Europe the neocons are also growing.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
fuckin bastards :) thanx for clearing that up lol
weemadjake 2 years ago
In Europe the neocons are not growing.
nilbud 2 years ago
THEYRE ALL NEOCONS!!!!!!!
chrismychi 2 years ago
America is a lost cause. Come to Norway! We really need you guys to defeat the neocons come next ellection. ;)
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago 3
@GnosticAtheist
haha, you do have beautiful women... just for you, I'm putting Norway on my list of countries to flee to if the neocons come back to power in America
Craigipedia 2 years ago
@Craigipedia
Me too.....
jjwrom 2 years ago
Dem's for the major loose sadly. I can't believe they manage to mess up every fucking thing they try out for. It must be some sort of record for useless politicians.
To bad Obama is a sellout bitch. He might have been able to pull them in the right direction had he been anything like what he promised the voters that elected him.
I'm sad to say: The Dem's AND Obama fully deserve to loose in a big way during thenext elections if they don't get this mess sorted out.
jo05dk 2 years ago
lets form a new party.
its about time.
manuelschindler 2 years ago 4
@manuelschindler good luck we just lose as much as we lose now. I say fuck it, I give up, I quit, it all fucking pointless. It seems moderates and conservatives hate our guts and they probably kill us if they could. so I say fuck em let them run themselves into the ground.
bumfire007 2 years ago
I have a Democrat friend,
who is now in her third trimester.
After congratulating her,
I asked her if she knew the sex of her fetus.
bobbytiger 2 years ago
How about glib sarcastic comments you try making an argument? Oh wait you can't, all your reasoning is based on iron-age mythology and emotional innuendo :D
megamarsvin 2 years ago 2
...what?
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
The reason Republicans are against abortions is because they don't want to become a minority, and everyone knows that if you could tell your fetus was a republican you would abort his ass.
ndewhurst12 2 years ago 11
that is an excelent theory, but they already are the minority.
MrTommyjackson 2 years ago 3
face it, Obama doesn't seem to know what he is doing...
CheapBeer09 2 years ago
Ben Nelson is another reason why I support affirmative action. It's infuriating to know he and his kin will forever profit from his useless, reactionary time in the Senate.
dizzymasekela 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ben Nelson is Sarah Palin's DICKLESS and BALLESS BITCH and PUSSY! Palin is a SUPERIOR politician and statesman than Nelson could ever be. She is also MORE MAN than he is for Nelson wears the skirt in his family while his wife wears the pants!
ecwaufisxtreme 2 years ago
u go and TROLL every single fucking video with "sara palin" this and that .. shut the fuck up stupid little kid go watch men in tights wrestle ... u faggot ...
esemaniac13 2 years ago 4
You tell them ecwaufixtreme. She has a pair of brass Ben Wa balls between her legs and she recently discovered a new planet.
mopsius 2 years ago 2
Palin wants a cracker
SayMobilePhone 2 years ago 3
hey that is a good idea. no more insurance coverage for abortions would hopefully reduce the number performed as there are way too many performed for sorry-ass reasons. although i would prefer for insurance companies to do this on their own and not via the state.
stefminus 2 years ago
@stefminus Not necessarily. People will find cheaper (and probably unsanitary) ways to get abortions. But yes, there are too many abortions going on in this country. There needs to be a solution but cutting insurance coverage won't stop the abortions.
LameGamerTag 2 years ago 3
this whole senate bill pisses me off. I can't believe we pay these assholes to accomplish one thing per year and a half.
TheDuckofLaw 2 years ago
Saw this one coming a mile away. Simply amazing.
Cawby 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Obama is a liar Kill the bill
SARAH PALIN 2012
xxxRightThePowerxxx 2 years ago
The White House will stop sucking big pharma's cock just long enough to say "give him what he wants!".
Xenite227 2 years ago 3
That's the unfortunate part about being a tolerant liberal, it's a mindset condition to give in (by tolerance) to anyone who will not concede. Don't give me a tolerant liberal, give me a radical one! Vote the fucking pansies out next election and bring in some liberals with balls.
Mortello 2 years ago 8
@Mortello You mean communists? There are communist and socialist parties you know.
CapitalistOverlord 2 years ago 2
Communist? Socialist? Not nearly.
refuckulate420 2 years ago
what do you mean?
btc8128 2 years ago
I mean there are communist parties.
CapitalistOverlord 2 years ago 3
The most reliable and consistent product of Capitalism is Communism.
On the other, it is necessary to learn from Allende.
Cannot afford to misfire.
And the military is not necessarily Right Wing.
mopsius 2 years ago 2
I say we give the right-wing what they want. That is, the privatization of all things in the government, and the ridding of all regulations stopping businesses from acting like dicks. Then, after around 5-10 years, we can unite the workers against the capitalists. Simple as that.
CapitalistOverlord 2 years ago 3
Actually CapitalistOverlord, mopsius has considered that scenario in depth.
Won't work.
mopsius 2 years ago
they r prodeath not life
kazooga1234 2 years ago
@kazooga1234
Exactly,
When they have seen Obama is weak,
why not come up with their
"DREAM BILL"
Im talking about the one that passed in Uganda, influenced by the conservatives in the US.
The bill, that says "Kill the gays bill"
I bet they wanna try to pass that bill too,
when they have seen, how weak Obama is.
zacky89 2 years ago
i cant believe that bill ever passed and i wish that the democrats would accually ban together and say fuck all the republicans and fuck u obama if u dont sign this we will find a way to punish u and that is what should be done i wish things would be that ha bisky it just some democrats r being fucking paid off and others just want to go with the flow and the few who r fighting feel like they cant really fight anymore caz obama is like no we r going to listen to the republicans
kazooga1234 2 years ago
man... going from a dream to a nightmare... I have to go live somewhere else... this is a mess. This country is already no more number 1, and it is going to drop very fast... Man... come Obama... if you can't do shit, it is over. You will be the first president in a long time who will NOT be reelected. That's really sad. While it is not 100% your fault, you are responsible for not acting when you should be there.
yes4me 2 years ago 7
@yes4me My thoughts exactly. I'm thinking UK or Canada. Leaning more towards the UK. Get as far away as I can while still being in western society.
zbambam5 2 years ago
Oh yeah, the UK is doing great with its government that is constantly seeking more invasive ways to watch your every move. Canada would definitely be my choice.
l0gically 2 years ago 2
Try Australia
Desdownunda 2 years ago
Someone please tell me how the hell this bill is the 'will of the people' and not grand theft?
LightSlei 2 years ago 2
@LightSlei
Republicans, and Fox News lie all the time,
You how they talk about FREEDOM.
Where is the freedom to choose between, a
Private Option, or Public Option,
just like Schools and College.
except, You dont die, if the private schools drop you,
but you actuilly die if a Private insurance company drop you.
zacky89 2 years ago 2
That still doesn't answer my question.
Politicians lie all the time, news stations lie all the time.
How is this bill the 'will of the people' and not grand theft of the people is my question.
LightSlei 2 years ago
Obama ran on it and got elected. Ergo, "will of the people". It's called democracy.
slakjaw 2 years ago
I was referring to the Democratic Senators who seem admanant about passing it when most of them don't seem to know what's in the bill.
LightSlei 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Obama is a liar Kill the bill
xxxRightThePowerxxx 2 years ago
i hate that there are senators named bill and ben nelson.
bobbyg640 2 years ago
Ben Nelson takes his orders from folks like Warren Buffett (Mutual of Omaha), I've seen it with my own eyes having lived in Nebraska.
AnneOnAMoose 2 years ago 2
Ridiculous. Kill the bill. Start all over.
seamoremonster 2 years ago 8
This bill isint dead yet? WTF.
glasshour76 2 years ago
dems and repubs are two sides of the same coin owned by the same corporations and banks
6enlighten9 2 years ago 6
TYT! Lets get into the mainstream!
Sardonac 2 years ago
I say tell Nelson to go fuck himself, and go for reconciliation without his vote. Fuck anti-choice Democrats.
Innize 2 years ago 5
I'm all for it, unfortunately reconciliation requires that it be related to the budget, and this probably wouldn't be.
GoblinInventor 2 years ago
if they wanted to pass the public option they could thru reconcilation bc it does effect the budget
indian8217 2 years ago 3
you are speaking of the amendment that Nelson is adding. That amendment is not related to the budget. That amendment is not related to the public option. Read your own post before you comment on how someone else is "wrong"
GoblinInventor 2 years ago
@Innize
lol.
probably more of them,than they're of you.
mlking213 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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razoras 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fucking FIRST. YEAHHHHHHHHHH
livingeasi 2 years ago