How does push beget pull? Maybe different people perceive it different ways, but the truth is that each complements the other; or, probably more accurately, the two are not finally separate but aspects of the same thing in a unified swing. If you see them as finally separate elements, you can't get around the fact that one can be almost all pull with not nearly enough push or release from the trailing side, or almost all push and no pull, breaking down the leading side.
@emncaity The Budweiser wagon is pulled by those Clydesdales... while it appears that the horses are pulling the wagon they are in fact Pushing against their harnesses. Stick your arm out the window of your car doing 60..there appears to be a substantial pull on your arm.. caused by the car pushing forward down the road. Left side pull NO right side push. Push and pull are compression forces. You can push without pull but I don't believe you can Pull without an equal and opposite Push.
...well, yes, because his left side moves so well, with that powerful ground-up pulling move. Golf is neither right-sided nor left-sided, but two-sided...said the greatest major championship player ever. And he was right. (And left.)
Oh my God...not another "I see stack and tilt in it." I see Mickey Wright, I see Mickey Mouse, I see Donald Duck...ugh. Nothing but backward projection of one more modernist theory that isn't really producing any champions (cf. the Hardy 1P thing, although I think Hardy is really smart and the broad basis of 1P is solid...I'm talking mostly about his followers and their projection of the theory onto EVERYTHING).
Hogan right was tightly connected with the whole right side through and BEYOND impact. Instead of letting the right arm stress away from the body, we can see that it is actively kept bent and still. Try to keep the right elbow glued to the right hip (or somewhere by it) while rotating the body and you'll feel the clubhead weight a lot better. You're muscles will benefit from this. Have a look at John Erickson's Advanced Ball Striking site!
@DocCrunch Be very careful with this move. When you rotate the hip/right foot clockwise you will simply rotate off the tush line. The clockwise rotation is a result of several other moves that pre set this action. Simply trying to hyper rotate the hip has no value. Understanding the sit down move in the swing is the focal point. That clockwise/backing into the target movement is not caused by rotation at all. Understand how to lower and when is the real secret
I grew up around Mr Hogan and had the pleasure to study with him. He never talked about head movement. The one time I brought it up I was under the belief that all I had to do was keep my head still and rotate around my spine. By his look and tone I can say he didn't like that at all. First he asked me if I hit the ball with my head, of course I said no? Then Ben look at me and said "what do you use to hit the ball?" I answered him by saying "my feet", which he had said to me many many times.
@theeaglequest Next he asked me where does the weight go in the back swing? I answered to the inside of my right foot. What about left he said? I answered a small amount is on the ball. Ben then asked "and the downswing?." I repeated what he had said often "return weight to the ball and heel of left foot by slamming the left foot into the ground. Mr. Hogan then said "the answer is in the feet not the head or spine son".
As for what Hogan thought of head movement that is no mystery. There are so many people who have studied with Hogan and he told them everything. For example ask Kris Tschetter she was very close to Hogan and someone he loved as a daughter. He taught her everything and now she is an LPGA player because of it. So stop guessing people and start asking. We have these great vids of him and many students he taught. Remember when you ask them hear what they say not what you want to hear.
@downtoscratch You are right sir. I have studied Mr Hogan swing on video anaylsis for over 12 years and if he was S&T then I would be doing it. Hogan was pretty much the opposite of S&T in everyway. But most people have never studied his swing and say something because they were told it or want to see it
@billygolfs50 Hogan's Shoulder center is very stable as he rotated them with tilt. He moved the hip center off the ball as he turned them and the rt leg extended to almost striaght this allowed the shoulder to turn more and stay in same spot over the ball. He also pushed the hip center thru and past the shoulder center on down swinSome said he almost looked rev pivot at the top, there was nothing rev about it because he ison Lt side. I have a 14 page letter Hogan wrote discribing all of this
@TheBillygolfs50 The letter was proven a fake. Some guy was trying to sell it as a Hogan lost letter. To bad because the letter would have been a great find. I don't know much about S&T what do they feel about the head moving up or down in the swing?
easiest swing to do...and yet no one has a clue how to do it.. except maybe jack nicklaus...and moe norman..but they both use it differently...and yours truly. Jack = power, Moe =straight, Ben= Balance ..... me idk yet
Another suggestion: You'll be surprised how well your right side works if you get the plane right. If the plane is too upright, the rest of the body gets in the habit of having to hold back so as not to distort or break down the path of the clubhead back to the ball, because if you apply too much force to a plane that's out of whack with the body (that is, the more it's off perpendicular to the spine), that's exactly what happens. On-plane, everything seems to want to release the right way.
Flat-ish shoulder plane approaching the top, steeper shoulder-plane coming through. Steepening the shoulder plane almost FORCES you to move the weight onto your lead leg and automatically puts the hands (and bottom of the arc) into a better position relative to the ball. Let the correct arm motion flow from a correct shoulder motion.
well,maybe "connected"is a better word.Hi handicappers spin out from the top and the right arm separates from the body.The cure is to make a tight coil on the backswing and start the downswing with the lower body.
Respectfully, rw are you viewing the same video as I am? Does that right elbow really look tucked to you? Granted
that right arm and it's elbow get close to the body as the elbow bends and he sets the arms low but.......... "tucked" never happens in this man's swing. It's a grand illusion. The body closes the gap on the arm in the downswing not the other way round. dts
It's so hard to partition one area away from the other, though, isn't it? You can "fire your right side" only to the extent that your left side is working the way it should. Your left side can work properly only if your right isn't holding it back, refusing to release, etc. I think the thing you see so much in a swing like Hogan's is just how "one thing" it really is--which is not to say that analysis is bad, only that it's always a bit of an illusion, like saying the tail "is" the elephant.
Push begets pull...... pull is effect push is the cause.... I push against the ground. Yes, two sides.
downtoscratch 7 months ago
@downtoscratch
How does push beget pull? Maybe different people perceive it different ways, but the truth is that each complements the other; or, probably more accurately, the two are not finally separate but aspects of the same thing in a unified swing. If you see them as finally separate elements, you can't get around the fact that one can be almost all pull with not nearly enough push or release from the trailing side, or almost all push and no pull, breaking down the leading side.
emncaity 7 months ago
@emncaity The Budweiser wagon is pulled by those Clydesdales... while it appears that the horses are pulling the wagon they are in fact Pushing against their harnesses. Stick your arm out the window of your car doing 60..there appears to be a substantial pull on your arm.. caused by the car pushing forward down the road. Left side pull NO right side push. Push and pull are compression forces. You can push without pull but I don't believe you can Pull without an equal and opposite Push.
downtoscratch 6 months ago
"Hogan hits hard with the whole right side"...
...well, yes, because his left side moves so well, with that powerful ground-up pulling move. Golf is neither right-sided nor left-sided, but two-sided...said the greatest major championship player ever. And he was right. (And left.)
emncaity 7 months ago
Oh my God...not another "I see stack and tilt in it." I see Mickey Wright, I see Mickey Mouse, I see Donald Duck...ugh. Nothing but backward projection of one more modernist theory that isn't really producing any champions (cf. the Hardy 1P thing, although I think Hardy is really smart and the broad basis of 1P is solid...I'm talking mostly about his followers and their projection of the theory onto EVERYTHING).
emncaity 7 months ago
what a nice happy song!!!
mess4sure 8 months ago
Very consistent; all the swings look exactly the same!
robertschelly 9 months ago
Hogan right was tightly connected with the whole right side through and BEYOND impact. Instead of letting the right arm stress away from the body, we can see that it is actively kept bent and still. Try to keep the right elbow glued to the right hip (or somewhere by it) while rotating the body and you'll feel the clubhead weight a lot better. You're muscles will benefit from this. Have a look at John Erickson's Advanced Ball Striking site!
BenJogan 9 months ago
@DocCrunch Be very careful with this move. When you rotate the hip/right foot clockwise you will simply rotate off the tush line. The clockwise rotation is a result of several other moves that pre set this action. Simply trying to hyper rotate the hip has no value. Understanding the sit down move in the swing is the focal point. That clockwise/backing into the target movement is not caused by rotation at all. Understand how to lower and when is the real secret
premolar7 11 months ago
I grew up around Mr Hogan and had the pleasure to study with him. He never talked about head movement. The one time I brought it up I was under the belief that all I had to do was keep my head still and rotate around my spine. By his look and tone I can say he didn't like that at all. First he asked me if I hit the ball with my head, of course I said no? Then Ben look at me and said "what do you use to hit the ball?" I answered him by saying "my feet", which he had said to me many many times.
theeaglequest 11 months ago
@theeaglequest Next he asked me where does the weight go in the back swing? I answered to the inside of my right foot. What about left he said? I answered a small amount is on the ball. Ben then asked "and the downswing?." I repeated what he had said often "return weight to the ball and heel of left foot by slamming the left foot into the ground. Mr. Hogan then said "the answer is in the feet not the head or spine son".
theeaglequest 11 months ago
As for what Hogan thought of head movement that is no mystery. There are so many people who have studied with Hogan and he told them everything. For example ask Kris Tschetter she was very close to Hogan and someone he loved as a daughter. He taught her everything and now she is an LPGA player because of it. So stop guessing people and start asking. We have these great vids of him and many students he taught. Remember when you ask them hear what they say not what you want to hear.
TheSeer101 11 months ago
this music is so sick
dschultz6072 1 year ago
This has a lot of Stack N Tilt components. Very little shoulder center motion off the ball lots of hip center motion to acompany his arms
billygolfs50 1 year ago
@billygolfs50 We see what we want to see..... I don't see it. No S&T in my opinion...
downtoscratch 1 year ago 8
@downtoscratch You are right sir. I have studied Mr Hogan swing on video anaylsis for over 12 years and if he was S&T then I would be doing it. Hogan was pretty much the opposite of S&T in everyway. But most people have never studied his swing and say something because they were told it or want to see it
TheSeer101 1 year ago
@billygolfs50 Hogan's Shoulder center is very stable as he rotated them with tilt. He moved the hip center off the ball as he turned them and the rt leg extended to almost striaght this allowed the shoulder to turn more and stay in same spot over the ball. He also pushed the hip center thru and past the shoulder center on down swinSome said he almost looked rev pivot at the top, there was nothing rev about it because he ison Lt side. I have a 14 page letter Hogan wrote discribing all of this
TheBillygolfs50 1 year ago
@TheBillygolfs50 The letter was proven a fake. Some guy was trying to sell it as a Hogan lost letter. To bad because the letter would have been a great find. I don't know much about S&T what do they feel about the head moving up or down in the swing?
TheSeer101 11 months ago
easiest swing to do...and yet no one has a clue how to do it.. except maybe jack nicklaus...and moe norman..but they both use it differently...and yours truly. Jack = power, Moe =straight, Ben= Balance ..... me idk yet
BoHoVsGolf 1 year ago
best swing ever.. S&T beleive it ..
jimmycap10 1 year ago
its the little things you notice in a vid like this...watch his head turn to the right just before he takes the club back...
dawgrogers 1 year ago
awesome vid DTS!
arniepga 1 year ago
Another suggestion: You'll be surprised how well your right side works if you get the plane right. If the plane is too upright, the rest of the body gets in the habit of having to hold back so as not to distort or break down the path of the clubhead back to the ball, because if you apply too much force to a plane that's out of whack with the body (that is, the more it's off perpendicular to the spine), that's exactly what happens. On-plane, everything seems to want to release the right way.
emncaity 2 years ago
Flat-ish shoulder plane approaching the top, steeper shoulder-plane coming through. Steepening the shoulder plane almost FORCES you to move the weight onto your lead leg and automatically puts the hands (and bottom of the arc) into a better position relative to the ball. Let the correct arm motion flow from a correct shoulder motion.
telescope3 2 years ago
that lag is crazy
MrPar24 2 years ago
Eccehomo, Technically speaking this was made the old fashioned "linear" way............ run the tape, record, rewind,
record etc.! It isn't pretty but it's all I had at the time (years ago).
downtoscratch 2 years ago
Great learning tool -- really demonstrates Hogan's quick (but smooth and even) tempo. Technically speaking, how did you make this vid? I
Eccehomo12 2 years ago
Doc, Interesting insights. This (YouTube) being a visual medium why not add a little show to augment your tell.
DTS
downtoscratch 2 years ago
well,maybe "connected"is a better word.Hi handicappers spin out from the top and the right arm separates from the body.The cure is to make a tight coil on the backswing and start the downswing with the lower body.
rw5791 2 years ago
as long as the right elbow stays tucked in,yeah,give it a whack.Byron nelson likened it to a piston in a car engine.
rw5791 2 years ago
Respectfully, rw are you viewing the same video as I am? Does that right elbow really look tucked to you? Granted
that right arm and it's elbow get close to the body as the elbow bends and he sets the arms low but.......... "tucked" never happens in this man's swing. It's a grand illusion. The body closes the gap on the arm in the downswing not the other way round. dts
downtoscratch 2 years ago
It's so hard to partition one area away from the other, though, isn't it? You can "fire your right side" only to the extent that your left side is working the way it should. Your left side can work properly only if your right isn't holding it back, refusing to release, etc. I think the thing you see so much in a swing like Hogan's is just how "one thing" it really is--which is not to say that analysis is bad, only that it's always a bit of an illusion, like saying the tail "is" the elephant.
emncaity 3 years ago
What do you mean by right is might.Are you saying the right arm and hip ,individualy or the entire right side?
Thanks
secrettogolf 3 years ago
The whole right side! dts
downtoscratch 2 years ago
I believe this is from his British Open win at Carnoustie - Hogan produced arguably the finest year in the history of golf that season (1953).
I would say that the angle makes his swing look a tad more "upright" than it really was though...
jpsartrean 3 years ago
This angle is fantastic...great vid dts. 5 Stars mate.
martinez19696 3 years ago
Yeah excellent vid, Hogan was truely the best ball striker ever!
Hows Oz these days? I hope those bush fires are a bit more under control..
HabloIrlandes 3 years ago