Wow, until now I liked Rob Bell, watched his videos and even went to hear him speak, but recently I fear he has taken a sharp turn towards self importance and self promotion. The whole way he marketed his book and all the little snippets of videos he made surrounding it was seriously damaging. He has came out and said he is not a universalist and yet here pretty much says he is. He seems to be a mixed up man bent on mixing up many of his followers.
Why do they not give him the time/opportunity to answer their many questions? .... Thats the purpose of an interview isnt it?... So - where's the point here?
I consider myself a "moderately-reformed evangelical."
I don't really like Rob Bell a whole lot, nor do I agree with his views of Hell. But if you're going to "debate" with someone, you should probably let them talk and not interrupt every two seconds.
2 Timothy 4:3-43 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths !!.
@zapzach22: What turns people off to the Gospel, Jesus Christ, Christianity is not our views on heaven and hell, it is people's hypocrisy and the lack of love. Jesus Christ Himself in the Scriptures made it perfectly clear that actual true eternal life is a relationship with Him.He stated it from the present time. Religion has crept into the church and has made it all about heaven, that heaven is eternal life. Life with Jesus, that is relationship, not heaven is true eternal life.
I read a review of his book on Amazon that I think has a lot of truth. Some people search for truth by looking for answers and once they 'have the answers' then they are done. Rob Bell asks questions and sees the search for the truth as a series of questions and the end is not necessarily known.
"Today the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches teach that Heaven and Hell are within the same realm, which is in the presence of God.[11][12]"- from Wikipedia
My biggest complaint with many Christians, etc who obsessively debate heaven and hell is this. That you are making heaven and hell to be what the Christian life is all about: Going to heaven. Its supposed to be about Jesus, not heaven or hell. Jesus Himself stated in His Holy Scriptures that true eternal life is relationship with Him. Thats what it is about, not endless doctrinal debates. Its about knowing Him and loving others.
@DMLDisciple u are completely right. Being a Christian is all about Jesus. The reason we are debating this subject right now, is because Rob Bell believes that God will win the hearts of everyone in the end.That means that it doesn't matter if you are a christian or not while you are alive. It means that no matter what you do on the earth, after you die, God will still save you in the end. That is why we are debating this, since Rob Bell is supposed to be an influential Christian
Also, concerning the reign of us the saints, are these ages concerning us over the earth or in very eternity itself. Anyways, do you believe that in the end everyone will be with God?
@Lrothtube: Jesus succeeded. He made payment for all sin: past, present, future. He didnt miss the mark, He paid for everyone's sin and salvation, though not many choose it. As Jesus has said: “Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which lead to life, and there are few who find it.”
a bunch of christian leaders rejecting each other, a bunch of christians rejecting each other, and a jesus who doesn't reject anybody (according to his story). Rob Bell has great things to say, more than that, he wants to make this world a better place, shall we reject him oh holy ones?...Oh yea, and god bless?
@Pynkrobot Finally someone who can clearly see the false sense of pride and pious religious spirits that "christians" have, I love God with all my heart but some of his "followers" really are starting to make me ill. I have had it up to here with all this sickening religious crap, if ONLY they could see themselves as they are BROOD....OF VIPERS, having a FORM of Godliness...but TRULY denying THE POWER THERE OF. Most "christians" act like they have a front row seat to the barbecue they cant wait4
@Lrothtube exactly.. because all "christians" know that if jesus was here right now, that he would go up to each and every one of them, kiss their feet, and say thank you for establishing and setting every right who strays away from the correct points of scripture.
I doubt the guys at this radio station would be open to change their view for the reason that it would effect their business. Too many people are so fearful to take another deeper look at the Love of God that they dont like themselves or others asking questions like these. You as a parent would never toss your Son into an eternal lake of fire no matter what they did, but we'll be quick without second thought to say our Heavenly Father is that way. Something is gone so wrong here folks. Much love
@Lrothtube: Okay, first off about free will: “Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefor choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;” Also then if you have a universalists theology, then why did JEsus give the great commission then if everyone does in fact god to heaven?
@DMLDisciple great commission= to get to be the BRIDE OF CHRIST! To move to the next age and rule and reign with Christ, most Christians dont get this, there are in fact 5 "ages" if not 7. I challenge anyone with this fact, if Jesus Christ was sent TO SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD,& according to scripture if he looses EVEN ONE, HE HAS MISSED THE MARK, kapeesh? I get sick & tired of pious religious "christians" who think they have it all figured out, when clearly they do not
CONTINUED) it negates the full power of the cross of Christ; it goes against the testimony of the prophets; it violates the testimony of Jesus Christ and His apostles; it violates the Scriptures in their original languages; it violates the writings of the early church leaders who read the Scriptures in the original languages; it goes against our conscience and our hearts, Finally, it has the ring of something the subtlest of all creatures would concoct…the greatest lie ever told.
I think that a person whose mental faculties, conscience and heart are still working will come to the reasonable conclusion that the concept of Hell as a place of everlasting punishment leaves a LOT of questions unanswered. Yes the concept of Hell ( that is all it is, a false concept) seems to violate everything that is reasonable. It violates the nature of God which is unconditional Love. It violates the wisdom of God, the pleasure of God, the promises of God, the oath of God, the power of God
• If Hell is a real place of everlasting punishment and if Jesus died in our place to save us from this fate, wouldn't Jesus have to be eternally punished if in fact He took our punishment upon Himself? But He's NOT being eternally punished. He DIED which is what the penalty of the wages of sin is, DEATH, NOT everlasting life of unending torture or eternal death (annihilation).
• If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?
• If Hell is real one would never know it by the actions of most Christians. They go through life pretty much like atheists, pagans, etc. If they really believed in Hell, they would spend their entire life trying to snatch their friends and relatives from the burning flames. If Hell is real, why don't they do this?
ALL died NOT because of their transgressions but because of Adam's transgression (Rom 5:18) why do many Christians not see what is plainly written, that "even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to ALL MEN, resulting in JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE!" (Rom. 5:18) This Scripture declares the FACT that all are justified due to Christ's righteous act. No one "decided" to die in Adam, it was "reckoned" to us. Equally no one "decided" to "receive eternal life," it is also "reckoned" to us
• If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.
"If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord?"
"I could never torture people endlessly, especially my own children. How can you say that God will do that to His children? This seems hideous. You make God look like a monster worse than Hitler, not a loving Father Who would even die for His enemies!"
"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity went there, how could you HONESTLY say that 'Love NEVER fails?' Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things." (I Cor. 13:8)
Are we missing the greater point here? HERE, in this mortal life and mortal body we are to learn the mercy, forgiveness, grace and justice of God. In believing God in Christ we are to conform ourselves to His Son Jesus who IS merciful, forgiving, gracious and just. Jesus is these things NOW as He was when He walked with His disciples. Do this and you will live forever, regardless of whatever your view of hell is. There are two great commandments which we must obey. Trust, obey and live forever.
@DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS Im sorry if it is NOT TRUE, then why even have God, are you familiar with web sites such as Tentmaker (org) What-theHell-is Hell (google.) HopebeyondHell google, Martin Zender(com) Bible-truth(com) Bible Threatenings Explained(google) this is just to get you STARTED! Jesus Christ has SAVED ALL MEN, IT IS FINISHED based on plenty of scripture, Gods judgements are TEMPORAL & for this "age" or eon or in the Greek=AION. Do a study , youll figure it out
@DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS Hell, is not eternal, Hell, Sheol is the Grave and that is what Jesus has shed his blood for atonement from sin which we all know the PENALTY in adam for sin is DEATH, Jesus atonement is for ALL men to save us from DEATH. Gods judgements are TEMPORAL because His mercy endures forever. The current tradition of man is that hell=eternal torture chamber, which maligns the TRUE CHARACTER of God and this doctrine of "hell" widely preached is a doctrine of demons.
@Lrothtube i wish i could agree with you. nothing would make me happier than finding out that Hell is not eternal and they'll all go to Heaven. but if Hell is not eternal...honestly...why did Jesus die for us in the first place if we were all gonna go to Heaven anyway? the whole death and ressurection saving us would be pointless, considering no matter what we did in this world we would go to heaven anyway. there'd be no need to be a christian even. wherer do you think they go without hell?
@DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS Then I will tell you, you will be happy, and you SHOULD be happy NOW! If we look from the beginning God warned Adam & Eve not to eat of the fruit, they would DIE, nothing about and eternal torture chamber somewhere! Jesus DIED for us to save us from our sin & DEATH nothing else! As in Adam ALL sin(no choice) in Jesus ALL will be vivified "everyman in his own order"(no choice) if we believe now, we are blessed NOW & move into the millinium to rule with Christ, others later
The "flesh" is "destroyed," but the person is not. After all, Jesus said He came "to DESTROY the WORKS of the DEVIL." (1 John 3:8)
We are the Works of Christ. He created us. We are NOT the works of the devil. Only the SIN in our lives is the work of the devil. It is the SIN ONLY that is permanently destroyed. Then we become "A NEW creature in Christ.
The "flesh" cannot be "converted;" it must be "destroyed," disassembled, made new. The "Old man of Sin" must be buried. The carnal fleshly mind "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are flesh can not please God."
C.S. Lewis I think nailed the whole heaven and hell issue on the head in his book, "The Great Divorce," "Even if the pad is locked, it's locked from the inside. All who are in hell choose it, because without that self-choice there would be no hell." Hell is not a place where God keeps people from Himself, it's a place where people are allowed to keep themselves from God. In the end, He gives us what we want, everyone who truly longs for heaven and endless joy will be there in the end.
If God created us in his image and in his likeness, then would you throw your own child in a furnace for sinning? No matter the crime, you would never want eternal punishment for your child, therefore we are God's creation,made in his image and likeness so it makes more sense to believe that God loves us so much he will forgive us in the end. LOVE WINS!!
Bell bases alot of his opinion off of the idea of time. But time only exists for us humans, but not truly in eternity. Eternity is forever and beyond. It is not a period, it is endless. People send themselves to hell because they reject the payment for their sins and thus they have to make up for them in which they cannot because only eternal salvation is possible because Jesus is God and God is endless, thus such a enormous payment could be paid for sin, but not by us.
@DMLDisciple Nope, you have it all wrong! So what youre saying is that mans "unbelief" is a sin? Thats gets them in some eternal torture chamber somewhere? Oh , I see now, so if unbelief is a sin, then are you going to say that is the only "sin" that Jesus blood cannot atone for? Hmmm? "Free-will, mans choice" is a doctrine of demons, we dont choose God, HE CHOOSES US. we are NOT a part of the salvation process! its not like "believing" jumpstarts the promises of God. Jesus said it is FINISHED!
@DMLDisciple Your are unfortunately believing in a tradition of man, eternal torture chamber and freewill are false doctrines. God is SOVEREIGN, HE IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL, the good the bad and the ugly, if you can even speak Jesus name out your mouth it all the GRACE of God that even allows you to speak it. I declare that Adams sin, the adversary, mans "choice" do not trump Jesus Christ blood atonement for ALL men, all men are saved "everyone in their own order" 1Corin. 15-22-25, kapeesh?
bible-truths(.com) really fun place to be, I love it I am growing so much in the Lord at this site, deals with a lot of issues, such as hell, the ages, and so forth...check it out!
If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they haven’t as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?
Many die for a few hours or more and come back to talk about hell. Dr. Donald Whitaker had that kind of experience and states emphatically that there is a hell.He changed radically and became a moral and Godly man.Now how does that account for some saying you have to believe in the Lord before you die. There are some exceptions.He totally didn't believe then when He called on this Jesus that someone preached about He escaped suddenly! Where was he? Hell. He said yes.What's up with His story?
If God's outside of time then he would of known that some people would be going to "hell" because of seeing the future. So my question is- if Rob Bell is wrong, why would God have ever created the world in the first place?
No, Rob - it is NOT a possibility. Why do people who are not fluent in these ancient languages question the work of hundreds of translators who are fluent, and have dedicated their lives to understanding both the languages and the culture of that day?
So if NOT believing is Jesus is a sin, that will send MOST to hell, then was this just to big of a sin for Christ blood to atone for?Oh I see the sin of "unbelieving" is the only sin not covered by Jesus Blood, hmmmmmm then if we "believe" it is OUR actions that really "jumpstart" salvation. I thought we believed BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED, I didnt Know we ARE SAVED ONLY WHEN WE believe, the Fathers plan and Jesus atonement is a big FAIL according to current teaching, because 95% are gonna fry
Its unfortunate that so many Christians give people the idea that hell is where they belong based on their style, or way of life. But Jesus Said "I am the just judge"...That means that I and all other Christians are not. Therefore what right do we have to tell people they are going to hell. Living life by the teachings of the church doesn't guarantee you a place in Heaven, Gods love does. So I agree with Rob that God isn't an ultra hater, he loves his creations and would do anything for them. :)
I've been a christian all my life untill recently. I was, for lack of a better word, a hardcore christian. I praised god, worshipped him, and loved him. But it wasn't untill recently that I started questioning christianity (probably because I am 17, an age full of becoming a man and questioning life and stuff) and I found a lot of things disturbing. Hell. So if a man, like gandhi, lived his life as a great, nice person but didn't believe in jesus, than he will be burned and tortured forever?
@micah960 How could a loving god do that? And people are so numb to, saying someone will go to hell like it's nothing. Hell is, atleast from what I've been tough, where you are burned and tortured without mercy day after day after day for thousands, millions, and billions of years. So how could a loving god let that happen? I'm not trying to start a fight or attack anyone who is a christian, I'm just a 17 year old guy who wants to know
@micah960 Ok buddy, good thing youre using that pretty little brain gave you, unlike others who call themselves"christians", you are RIGHT in asking such a question, because any critical thinker knows Gods not gonna fry most of mankind made in his image. Go to these sites-study for yourself friend, Tentmaker(org) Martin Zender (com) salvation of all, universal salvation (org) bible threats explained should send you on a beautiful path of Jesus the Savior of ALL! google these sites
The "flesh" cannot be "converted;" it must be "destroyed," disassembled, made new. The "Old man of Sin" must be buried. The carnal (fleshly) mind "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are flesh can not please God."
@micah960 The "flesh" is "destroyed," but the person is not. After all, Jesus said He came "to DESTROY the WORKS of the DEVIL." (1 John 3:8)
We are the Works of Christ. He created us. We are NOT the works of the devil. Only the SIN in our lives is the work of the devil. It is the SIN ONLY that is permanently destroyed. Then we become "A NEW creature in Christ.
@micah960 but how are you judging Gandhi or any other 'good people' by our standards or by all mighty God. nobody is good the Bible says we were all born into sin. If God doesn't punish sin he is not being just. imagine a heaven with murders ,thieves, and people who dont love Jesus to me that would be horrible seeing that heaven is all about worshiping Jesus. Good question though!!
@survivalizer It's found in Jonah 2:6 "about me for ever (`owlam)", Strong's h5769.
Clearly Rob Bell has taken this out of context, as Jonah is speaking metaphorically here and is ridiculous to take the meaning literally. Compare it to Gen 3:22 "and live for ever (chayay `owlam)" and one can see how he has used it out of context.
I think i lean more towards Rob's argument. If i worship a fair and merciful God, which i believe i do, then how can the same God punish someone in North Korea or Africa or anywhere else that has never heard the word of God or has never even held a bible? If God loves his children, which i believe he does, then how can he punish his children eternally when some of them have never heard God's word?
It's Rob bells own contextout of context period..Not the Word Of God which is pure in truth.Eternity with Christ or Eternity in Gods wrath which is Hell,God is Holy and He is Lord.God choses to do away with such the way he pleases and in hell they will still know He is Lord.Theres Grace and then theres Wrath where the worm never dies.
WHAT IF HUMAN NEVER EXISTED AND ONLY ANIMALS DID, DO YOU THINK THERRE WOULD BE HELL? ANIMALS HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT HELL IS. SO GUESS WHAT, HELL IS MAN MADE. AND NO IM NOT AN ATHEIST.
Imagine, if instead of having these age old debates we prayed and shared the gospel with people that they might get saved. The devil is a master at distraction. Come on believers, our job is to preach the Gospel and see people saved! Use your time wisely! Trust "the Holy Spirit to guide you into truth" not John Piper, Rob Bell, Francis Chan or anyone else. Praise God for the good they do but they are not our Guide. The Holy Spirit is, and He has never misinterpreted Scripture.
I wish I could be on bells side sometimes and just piss of some of those Christians that feel threatened by his book...if they had any confidence there would be no dismissal like at 1:00
God doesn't send people to hell. People who send THEMSELVES to hell. The Bible clearly says that hell is for satan and his demons. It was never meant for us. But if you chose the way of sin and satan you will be with satan eternally when you die.
@Glory2theLamb11 yes but if the way that an individual recieves the good news is entirely circumstantial? this mean that if you prescribe to predestination, then God is pretty much picking who he wants to go to heaven. And this, in turn contradicts His nature (in that He loves us all equally and without conditions).
@Glory2theLamb11 ok, I see now, my "free will" saves me, I MAKE the choice, duh, it is my DECISION that trumps Jesus atonement, sorta like as in ALL men are sinners in Adam( no choice) only a very small group in Jesus are saved(their choice) I get it now, Adams sin, the adversary, and mans CHOICE all are more powerful than Jesus atonement, wow, I didnt realize what an epic FAIL, God the FATHERS' plan is, Im sure Him &Jesus r sittin there saying "pick me, pick me"! I though God was Sovereign!!
@Glory2theLamb11 The ones that choose Jesus must really be the smart ones', the other must be really dumb, arent you glad you are one that MADE THE DECISION, to save yourself by your own faith? Lucky! I always thought that God CHOSE US, & it is HE who IMPARTS the measure of faith, thats what the scripts say, but you know how those can be misinterpreted, especially theKJV with all its false doctrine on "eternal torment/hell-fire" ,that rightly dividing the word is for the birds, silly God, FAIL!
@Glory2theLamb11 God Also knew from the beginning who would chose life or death,he knew the choices we would make and our failures as well.So then Bottom line is people have bring things upon themselves be it good or bad by the choices that they make and God knew all this before they ever even took place.
@MrLyckitySplyt "hell" used by Jews and Jesus is the grave, Jesus saves us from death, he is the FIRST born among many brethren, Jesus was literally dead, for three nights, dead dead. If Jesus is the propitiation for our sins(& He is) and he saved us from ETERNAL torment, HELL FIRE, then he would STILL have to be there for ETERNITY, he went to the GRAVE, that is what we are saved from ALL of us, is DEATH, THE GRAVE,
"christians" spout the false doctrine from pagan religion of "eternal torment
@Lrothtube Well saying that Hell isnt eternal is degrading what Jesus is for us.... the doctrine says that the chief purpose of God is to be glorified. if Hell isn't eternal then God isnt reciving the glory that he should. Also remeber that not EVERYONE is saved... there are going to be people in Hell..."that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
but we need to remember that Hell is for a place where people STILL THINK that they dont need a savior.
@MrLyckitySplyt So that we could experience God's love for us in Heaven? Just saying... Regardless of whether hell is eternal or not shouldn't we be focused on being apart of God's love eternally? Why would u want someone to burn eternally? I doubt God would let it happen either.
@rhin0butt have u honestly though to yourself that maybe God's way of justice is way more developed than Our own opinions? That maybe the God who created us think DIFFERENTLY than how we do? I believe that everything in the Bible is true, and if God says that, that is who he is, then we have to take it at what he says. But yes we should be focusing on God's love, but if saying that Hell isn't eternal is like saying that Heaven isn't eternal.
hell= eternal separation from God, not eternal suffering,.. chechout the word "hell" in hebrew. is compared to the "lake of fire" that is refering to "genea" that was literally a lake of fire were already dead's body were thrown and dont deserve a memory like a grave...
@Gresh85 sorry for the misspelling, anyway, there is a lot of people that think like me.. "Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."- Jude 7.. is Sodom and Gomorrah burning right now??? no... again, is an eternal separation, fire= destruction.. the wages of sins is death, period..
@MrOxidizer You are on it bro...Bell claims that he doesn't believe "God is like that." Its because he has a distorted view of the severity of sin. He obviously has no clue how devastating sin is and how it goes against the awesomeness of God's holiness. Hell exists because it speaks to God's eternal holiness and eternal righteousness in eternal judgement..,
@Gresh85 um, not sure where youre getting this doctrine? So me chap &verse tying Gods holiness, mans sin, and hell all together, So when Jesus payed for all mans sin on the cross with his blood, now youre saying it isnt good enough, Hmmmm? So as in Adam ALL sinned,but in Christ only a few who make the RIGHT CHOICE r saved?Hmmm, seems to me adams sin trumps Jesus Blood, darn, I thought it was a good plan to save all but it looks like Jesus failed, adam, satan&mans choice is stronger than Jesus
For all those Christians out there: Please pray for MrSavedbylove. In his life he has been taught false things about the Christian faith and someone has deceived him. Pray that he would come to know the true God and that his heart would be filled with the love of the Holy Spirit and the knowledge of Jesus Christ who came and died to save him of his sin and the Wrath of God. I certainly am and what better way to show your love for him! Spread the Gospel and the Good news always never faltering!
@emurdoch100 IF HUMAN NEVER EXISTED ONLY ANIMALS, DO YOU THINK THERRE WOULD BE RELIGION OR BIBLE? ANIMALS DONT KNOW HOW TO WRITE A BIBLE OR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT RELIGION IS. SEE WHERRE IM GOIN WITH THIS, THE BIBLE AND RELIGION IS MAN MADE. IF HUMANS NEVER EXISTED, NONE OF THIS RELIGION AND BIBLE WOULD BE TALKED BOUT, THATS REAL SHYT. IM NOT AN ATHEIST AND I DONT BELONG TO ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP, IM NOT BRAINWASHED *COUGH* SOME CHRISTIANS. I BELIEVE IN GOD BUT I DONT NEED RELIGION
@MrSavedbylove I believe in Christ Jesus, who's is the lord God. I believe he came to die for my sin and save me from God's wrath. As such, I follow his teaching.
@MrSavedbylove Seriously, I said read the whole book! You can't gain an understanding of Romans by simply looking at chapter 2! If you read on to chapter 3, it puts these verses you quote into perspective! Romans 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
@MrSavedbylove3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. The book of Romans is a continual narrative and as such, if you stop half way through, you only gain half the picture and thus something which is completely out of context.
@MrSavedbylove Yes, reading the Bible is hard sometimes and things don't make sense, but you can't come at it from the point of Google search or a random verse analysis otherwise this leads to misinterpretations, as can so clearly be seen by your comments.
@emurdoch100 Reading the bible isn't hard to me, maybe to you. i humbled myself and asked God to reveal his truth to me, to clear all the questions that were plaguing my mind, he answered me. Christian creed is filled with lies, deceptions and nonsense belief, i questioned all of it, i was naive, when i prayed, i found the truth. paul acknowledged that love is greater than all the gifts of the holy spirit. you know what you need? love, meditate in it, ask God for it.
@MrSavedbylove The truth of the Bible is that Jesus came to die for your sins and al you have to do is have faith in him and you'll be saved from God's wrath. Your knowledge of anything Biblical is filled with lies, as myself and others have countlessly proven (Romans 2 for example) I know God is loving, but that does not cancel out God's righteous anger towards sin and his just punishment of it.
@MrSavedbylove Nothing you say can be accepted, it is not biblical, it is riddled with contradictions and self righteous arguments and you also preach from a book you don't trust or believe in. That is hypocritical and nobody trusts a hypocrite. Stop following your own ways of dreams and fairy tales of which no proof exists and pray to God with a sincere heart to have the truth of Christ Jesus laid bare to you, otherwise, you're on a trip to self destruction. You'll realise sooner or later.
@HappyRoadCone hey. Don't really want to get too involved in this very intense and in depth debate, but just to say even though I haven't been Christian that long, I would definitely trust what emurdoch100 and samuel45 are saying! Please don't get swept away by people who claim anything other than the simple and basic teachings of the bible...so simple and obvious if you read the bible that even a new Christian can clearly understand what Christianity is about! Good luck with the debate guys!
@HappyRoadCone Take it this way, MrSvedbylove doesn't believe half of what the Bible says, pulling verses out of context and claiming things that are nowhere to be found. However, this does not stop him using it to preach his Gnostic views. If you want proof, look down the comments. You'll see he takes something I said and twists it to what he wants. Don't listen to someone who can't even read within the context.Explore it yourself and pray about it when you read it and you'll come to understand
@emurdoch100 i believe in showing love to others, i believe in God, what else? i don't believe in your christian creeds, it doesn't work for me. it's funny though, check his channel to have a glimpse of who he is, he isn't your average, not a confused person looking for answer from people like you. i am laughing out loud imagining how people like you would react when they die, after seeing everything, and seeing how confused and naive they've been. smh
@MrSavedbylove Christ died for everyone, its not a matter of 'he's for me or not' I pray that you see Christ's wonderful gift of salvation for you. Come judgement day, you'll be held accountable for your actions and this is no laughing matter. I pray God reveals the truth to you, as I worry for your salvation.
@samuel45 and by 'another' I mean it's good to have someone else who understands the Bible and what it preaches. I saw he thought we were alive as spirits before we were created...I don't think he understands that God is eternal with an eternal mind and that he 'knew' us before we were here. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we were with him before as 'spirits' He needs prayer! He also need to learn how to read historical texts. It doesn't take a degree to do that.
@MrSavedbylove I did not say you were an 'AGNOSTIC' I said Gnostic! They believe we fell from the heaven and found bodies and have been lost and that Jesus is the same as us but not tainted. How can anybody trust what you say on the bible if you can't even read a simple comment on Youtube?!
@MrSavedbylove Both Jesus and Paul taught about God's wrath and the coming judgment after the 2nd coming of Christ. Both state that to be saved, you must have faith and believe. They show God's love through Jesus Christ death on the cross John3:41-16. The bible also states that false those who did not have faith, or believe, will be thrown in the lake of fire. Also, we can repent of or sin in this life, but it's not simply stopping doing something. It's asking Christ/God for forgiveness.
@emurdoch100 being saved is having faith and believe? believe in what, having faith in what? you mean if you go about causing problem to mankind and have faith and believe, you are at peace with God? you are confused.
@MrSavedbylove did jesus ever preached that having faith and believing in him is what will save mankind? does it mean mankind were never saved before jesus was born? that has to be the most stupid thing someone will ever go out to preach. see, christianity sparked racism due to the fact that they carried the racism of the jews and made it their tradition. the jews hated the Phoenicians although david and jesus were half Phoenicians, ruth was a Phoenician if you don't now. lol
@MrSavedbylove Yes, Jesus did preach these things! John3:16 For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only son so that all BELIEVED in him would not PERISH, but have ETERNAL LIFE. Mankind was not meant to live in a world of sin, unfortunately, sin entered the world when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. Those who lived by God's word in the OT were promised a saviour and animal sacrifice was used as a temporary solution to the final sacrifice = Jesus death on the cross.
@emurdoch100 Buddy, don't bother getting angry. Prayer is all you can do. It is a sign of this generation (I'm 24 by the way, not a golden oldie): a move away from sin and replacing it with a concept of God which provides no fixed basis. He puts forth question upon question and then questions the original question, typical of deeply rooted uncertainty. There is no firm answer because all is speculation CREATED by their own interpretations of the bible. Take care.
@samuel45 I know! Also, I think he's been marking my comments as spam...I'm 20 and have been a Christian since I was 17 and have been reading and studying my Bible ever since. He has no clue what he's talking about. He does what many do and take single verses out of context and then they obtain another meaning. I'm studying Ancient History at University and we're taught how to spot this and also how to look at texts within their context and he's not doing it right. It's good to have another!
@samuel45 Yeah, it's more fun than it sounds. It was one of the reasons that helped me become a Christian, learning about past events, religions and differing views with surprising outcomes. And yeah, if you're studying the Bible, you're studying history, whether you're a Christian or not.
@emurdoch100 IM 20 AND I DONT BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES, HOW YOU 20 STILL BELIEVE TALKIN ANIMALS, MAN WALKIN ON WATER, TURNIN WATER INTO WINE? GROW UP. MY HOMEGIRL SHES BEEN A CHRISTIANS SINCE SHE WAS 15 AND SHES 19 BUT SHE DONT BELIEVE ALL THAT AND SHE DONT WORSHIP JESUS SINCE HE SAID NOT TO WORSHIP HIM, SHE TRIES LIVIN RIGHT LIKE HE DID, SHE PRAYS TO GOD LIKE HE SAID DO. SHE KNOWS JESUS WAS JUS A HUMAN BEING, ALL THAT 100% MAN 100% SHE KNOWS IT DONT MAKE SENSE.
@MrSavedbylove Believing in Christ Jesus and having faith that he died for your sins. No, living by faith and being a Christian means you follow Christ's commandments and through your faith, your fruits of the spirit are shown, as the Holy Spirit is working in your heart. I did not say being saved means you can go about causing problems. That is a Universalist view and I am not one of them as it's not Biblical
@emurdoch100 MY PROFESSOR IS AN EX-CHRISTIAN, CUS OF ALL THE FALLACIES. CHRISTIANITY STOLE PAGAN IDEAS. ONLY GULLIBLE PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE ALL THAT NONSENSE, BUT NOT MY HOMEGIRL, SHE HAS A MIND OF HER OWN. SHE KNOWS CHRISTIANITY STOL PAGAN IDEAS. LIKE PAGAN HOLIDAYS, CHRISTMAS IS A PAGAN HOLIDAY. SHE CANT STAND FAKE CHRISTIANS WHO PREACH LIES. SHE DOES AS JESUS SAID TO DO, DONT WORSHIP HIM JUS PRAY TO GOD AS IN THE LORDS PRAYER WHICH IS PROOF HE WAS NOT DIVINE.
@MrSavedbylove Yes, Jesus does preach and so does Paul, but they DO NOT miss out God's wrath and eternal judgment. It is preached in the OT and the NT. You just need to read it and it's very clear, no matter how you try and put it. You're making the Bible palatable because you and others like you are scared you'll hurt someone's feelings. If you want the verses, I'll happily post them up! Also, this nonsense about being spirits fallen from heaven is not biblical whatsoever.
Hell is a state we create for ourselves when our unloving acts overshadow our acts of love. when we are conscious of our actions to others, it will help us in achieving our spiritual growth. hell is a place where the emotions of what we did on earth hunt us, it's a place of regret remorse, we will escape it when we go through those emotions, feel remorse for how we treated others and then ask for help. Nobody judges us when we die, after our life review, we judge ourselves because we will see
@MrSavedbylove cont.., our actions towards others. our spirit is filled with love,forgiveness, mercy,giving, and all the positive, but when we come to this earth and dwell in a flesh, we battle with it and its desires, we battle with ego. we need to come to a point where we are able to control our fleshly desires and our ego, we need to create a harmony with our spirit and flesh. our conscience always knows the truth. any act of love you perform anyday, helps you grow, it could be: ...
@MrSavedbylove cont2... it could be: helping a helpless old lady carry her bag; helping a stranded motorist get a fuel; helping a poor homeless man with food, cloth, or shelter; putting smile in someone's face; forgiving someone who offended you,etc. christian creed isn't universal, but love is universal. ask yourself this, what about those who lived without hearing about christ or reading the bible? is favoritism a part of God? why would God favor a religion more than others? God loves us all
@MrSavedbylove cont 3..because, before we were born, we existed with him as spirits, he knew us before our birth, we knew him, we were conscious before our earth life, but forgetting who we are helps us attain our goals. We even chose who our parents should be because we know they would help us achieve our earthly goal or goals. if God is the one who gives offspring, why would he condemn a Muslim, abudhist, a hinduist but still bless them with a child who he knows will end up in hell? think!!
@MrSavedbylove Yeah, revelations and Jesus were and therefore must be wrong. There is no Hell, hey in fact there is no devil! So there is no right or wrong. everything is what is it. Jesus wasted his time. NO!
WE CANNOT JUDGE OURSELVES BECAUSE WE CAN NEVER BE, NOR ARE, SOURCES OF ORIGINAL CREATION. SOMETHING, MINE BEING GOD, JESUS AND THE HP, ARE THE SOURCES OF ORIGINAL CREATION AND HOLD MANKIND ACCOUNTABLE.
Let's completely mess up the minds of the future men and women hey?
@samuel45 john's revelation was a recycled book of Daniel, if you want, i will send you something on how it is explained, you would see it yourself and judge by yourself. in daniel, the prince of peace was going to be angel Michael, but in revelation it was Jesus. Does satan exist? well, we have to ask ourselves, what does satan mean. satan means "adversary", if someone discourages you from following your dream, he or she is your satan, it's a hebrew word.
@MrSavedbylove John is not a recycled book of Daniel at all and this is coming from a Historian. I have studied both books and one is not a copy of the other. Also, in Daniel, the Prince of Peace was not going to be the angel Michael. I don't know where you got that from! Also, the book of Isaiah prophesies Jesus coming throughout - Why he was coming and what he would do and that he would be GOD.
@samuel45 cont.. is there a spiritual entity called satan? there's no evidence to that, no one has ever claimed he or she saw satan either in a dream or in near death experience, no one. right and wrong? i have said it time without number, we are here for a purpose, each one of us has his or her own purpose. love and forgiveness is the ultimate in our spiritual growth. we have our conscience and that's our spiritual compass. you can't deny the ripple effect of love, imagine when....
@MrSavedbylove you give a homeless man food or cloth, how his face lit up? imagine when you help an old lady that needs help, how her face lit up? when you give to foster kids, the letters of thanks you receive, you can't deny how it makes you feel. imagine when someone you offended, tell you that he forgave you, the feeling you get? do you know the ripple effect of love? do you know that if america play the role of love as a big brother to other countries, it will change a lot in this world.
@MrSavedbylove IM not going to respond any longer. The fact you didn't acknowledge a need to repent for sin is a saddening concern to my heart. The persons who taught you this should be worried for the judgment they SHALL RECEIVE. You've got love right in so many ways but it is empty without Jesus, repentance and forgiveness. The bible says 'How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to God's WORD' The Bible is fundamental to love, you overlook or are ignorant to bits you fear.
@samuel45 no body will receive any judgement, why would you receive a judgement when your life will be reviewed in your presence? Can you be rational for a second? do you think you can lie as a spirit? when your life is reviewed to you, you will automatically know if you lived right or not, and no one is going to judge you. since you don't know, the presence of jesus christ is filled with love, enormous love no one has ever felt. i pray you come to the truth one day. peace out.
@MrSavedbylove cont...a wrong behavior or action. when you stop eating too much, it's repentance, when you stop bullying that little boy in school, it's repentance. when you stop cursing your parents, it's repentance. according to you, repentance is when you say "jesus, i accept you as my lord and savior......." that is it, nope. first, you have to be conscious of your actions and the truth in love will always guide you. Jesus thought about love and God, not himself.
@MrSavedbylove 'lived it right' Is salvation through works and both Paul and Jesus preach against this and that salvation can only come through Faith in Christ, 100% God, 100% man. Also, the rest of what you state here does not make sense! I pray you come to know the truth very soon, so that others will not fall into the trap of believing not matter whether they believe in in Jesus or not, they're saved.
@emurdoch100 According to the bible, we are saved from the world, we are in the world but not of the world. the problem is, the translator didn't know the reason this earth was made at the first place, do you think this world was created for christians? do you think everything centres on being a member of a religion that's filled with confusion? if you want to see the obvious evidence that there's a problem with christianity. look at the different denominations.
@MrSavedbylove When the Bible says that it is because we live in a world of sin. We are saved from that world and the wrath of God which is coming towards it. The Bible has had many translators and they have all come to the same means. You are very arrogant and ignorant if you believe you know better than all of them!The world was created for all people. Paul shows this in the book of Romans, in that salvation was not only for the Jew, but for the gentile.
@MrSavedbylove Also, Christianity is no religion, it defines my Faith in God. Jesus preached against religion and said that all who believe in the son of man will be saved, that being Jesus. Yes, there are many denominations, but they all hold true to the major truths, like the trinity and Jesus' divinity. They differ on minor things, like spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues and male/female preachers. I'm sure there are also many denominations of your 'religion' what ever it is. Gnostic?
@emurdoch100 this is what pauls said, it's either he was confused (which i think he was sometimes), or he didn't know what he was saying. this is paul, read carefully: Romans 2:
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." ,
@MrSavedbylove Romans2:1-4 States that those who judge others judge themselves and as such will be judged the same by God. 5-11 Speaks of God's wrath being served out on the day of JUDGEMENT to those of a selfish nature (God does not show favouritism) 12-16 Speaks about judging those apart from the law perishing apart from it and those living by the law being judged by it. 17-24 The Jews taching the law, but not living by it. 25-27 speaks on circumcision 28-29 Circumcision of the heart etc
Wow, until now I liked Rob Bell, watched his videos and even went to hear him speak, but recently I fear he has taken a sharp turn towards self importance and self promotion. The whole way he marketed his book and all the little snippets of videos he made surrounding it was seriously damaging. He has came out and said he is not a universalist and yet here pretty much says he is. He seems to be a mixed up man bent on mixing up many of his followers.
Thegreenandwhitearmy 1 day ago
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Hi, Ive got a copy of Love Wins that like new for $10 if anyones interested. It's a good read, very controversial
gumroad.com/l/kof
dynamobapman 2 days ago
Why do they not give him the time/opportunity to answer their many questions? .... Thats the purpose of an interview isnt it?... So - where's the point here?
katrinweigert 2 days ago
I consider myself a "moderately-reformed evangelical."
I don't really like Rob Bell a whole lot, nor do I agree with his views of Hell. But if you're going to "debate" with someone, you should probably let them talk and not interrupt every two seconds.
MPWorthMcEwan 4 days ago
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2 Timothy 4:3-43 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths !!.
JillUnderwoodable 4 days ago
@zapzach22: What turns people off to the Gospel, Jesus Christ, Christianity is not our views on heaven and hell, it is people's hypocrisy and the lack of love. Jesus Christ Himself in the Scriptures made it perfectly clear that actual true eternal life is a relationship with Him.He stated it from the present time. Religion has crept into the church and has made it all about heaven, that heaven is eternal life. Life with Jesus, that is relationship, not heaven is true eternal life.
DMLDisciple 6 days ago
I read a review of his book on Amazon that I think has a lot of truth. Some people search for truth by looking for answers and once they 'have the answers' then they are done. Rob Bell asks questions and sees the search for the truth as a series of questions and the end is not necessarily known.
mntribefan 6 days ago
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agrowingtime 1 week ago
@MrUrosSrb: Exactly
DMLDisciple 1 week ago
"Today the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches teach that Heaven and Hell are within the same realm, which is in the presence of God.[11][12]"- from Wikipedia
pimaggot 1 week ago
My biggest complaint with many Christians, etc who obsessively debate heaven and hell is this. That you are making heaven and hell to be what the Christian life is all about: Going to heaven. Its supposed to be about Jesus, not heaven or hell. Jesus Himself stated in His Holy Scriptures that true eternal life is relationship with Him. Thats what it is about, not endless doctrinal debates. Its about knowing Him and loving others.
DMLDisciple 1 week ago 2
@DMLDisciple Eternal life is believing in him.John 3:16,Acts 16:31.
MrUrosSrb 1 week ago
@DMLDisciple u are completely right. Being a Christian is all about Jesus. The reason we are debating this subject right now, is because Rob Bell believes that God will win the hearts of everyone in the end.That means that it doesn't matter if you are a christian or not while you are alive. It means that no matter what you do on the earth, after you die, God will still save you in the end. That is why we are debating this, since Rob Bell is supposed to be an influential Christian
zapzach22 1 week ago
Also, concerning the reign of us the saints, are these ages concerning us over the earth or in very eternity itself. Anyways, do you believe that in the end everyone will be with God?
DMLDisciple 1 week ago
@Lrothtube: Jesus succeeded. He made payment for all sin: past, present, future. He didnt miss the mark, He paid for everyone's sin and salvation, though not many choose it. As Jesus has said: “Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which lead to life, and there are few who find it.”
DMLDisciple 1 week ago
a bunch of christian leaders rejecting each other, a bunch of christians rejecting each other, and a jesus who doesn't reject anybody (according to his story). Rob Bell has great things to say, more than that, he wants to make this world a better place, shall we reject him oh holy ones?...Oh yea, and god bless?
Pynkrobot 1 week ago
@Pynkrobot Finally someone who can clearly see the false sense of pride and pious religious spirits that "christians" have, I love God with all my heart but some of his "followers" really are starting to make me ill. I have had it up to here with all this sickening religious crap, if ONLY they could see themselves as they are BROOD....OF VIPERS, having a FORM of Godliness...but TRULY denying THE POWER THERE OF. Most "christians" act like they have a front row seat to the barbecue they cant wait4
Lrothtube 1 week ago
@Lrothtube exactly.. because all "christians" know that if jesus was here right now, that he would go up to each and every one of them, kiss their feet, and say thank you for establishing and setting every right who strays away from the correct points of scripture.
Pynkrobot 1 week ago
i dont think he understands eternity....
RedJohn16ismyPSN 1 week ago
I doubt the guys at this radio station would be open to change their view for the reason that it would effect their business. Too many people are so fearful to take another deeper look at the Love of God that they dont like themselves or others asking questions like these. You as a parent would never toss your Son into an eternal lake of fire no matter what they did, but we'll be quick without second thought to say our Heavenly Father is that way. Something is gone so wrong here folks. Much love
WilteredFire 2 weeks ago
@Lrothtube: Okay, first off about free will: “Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefor choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;” Also then if you have a universalists theology, then why did JEsus give the great commission then if everyone does in fact god to heaven?
DMLDisciple 2 weeks ago
@DMLDisciple great commission= to get to be the BRIDE OF CHRIST! To move to the next age and rule and reign with Christ, most Christians dont get this, there are in fact 5 "ages" if not 7. I challenge anyone with this fact, if Jesus Christ was sent TO SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD,& according to scripture if he looses EVEN ONE, HE HAS MISSED THE MARK, kapeesh? I get sick & tired of pious religious "christians" who think they have it all figured out, when clearly they do not
Lrothtube 1 week ago
CONTINUED) it negates the full power of the cross of Christ; it goes against the testimony of the prophets; it violates the testimony of Jesus Christ and His apostles; it violates the Scriptures in their original languages; it violates the writings of the early church leaders who read the Scriptures in the original languages; it goes against our conscience and our hearts, Finally, it has the ring of something the subtlest of all creatures would concoct…the greatest lie ever told.
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
I think that a person whose mental faculties, conscience and heart are still working will come to the reasonable conclusion that the concept of Hell as a place of everlasting punishment leaves a LOT of questions unanswered. Yes the concept of Hell ( that is all it is, a false concept) seems to violate everything that is reasonable. It violates the nature of God which is unconditional Love. It violates the wisdom of God, the pleasure of God, the promises of God, the oath of God, the power of God
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
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Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
• If Hell is a real place of everlasting punishment and if Jesus died in our place to save us from this fate, wouldn't Jesus have to be eternally punished if in fact He took our punishment upon Himself? But He's NOT being eternally punished. He DIED which is what the penalty of the wages of sin is, DEATH, NOT everlasting life of unending torture or eternal death (annihilation).
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
• If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?
• If Hell is real one would never know it by the actions of most Christians. They go through life pretty much like atheists, pagans, etc. If they really believed in Hell, they would spend their entire life trying to snatch their friends and relatives from the burning flames. If Hell is real, why don't they do this?
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
ALL died NOT because of their transgressions but because of Adam's transgression (Rom 5:18) why do many Christians not see what is plainly written, that "even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to ALL MEN, resulting in JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE!" (Rom. 5:18) This Scripture declares the FACT that all are justified due to Christ's righteous act. No one "decided" to die in Adam, it was "reckoned" to us. Equally no one "decided" to "receive eternal life," it is also "reckoned" to us
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
• If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
"If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord?"
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
"I could never torture people endlessly, especially my own children. How can you say that God will do that to His children? This seems hideous. You make God look like a monster worse than Hitler, not a loving Father Who would even die for His enemies!"
"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity went there, how could you HONESTLY say that 'Love NEVER fails?' Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things." (I Cor. 13:8)
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
Are we missing the greater point here? HERE, in this mortal life and mortal body we are to learn the mercy, forgiveness, grace and justice of God. In believing God in Christ we are to conform ourselves to His Son Jesus who IS merciful, forgiving, gracious and just. Jesus is these things NOW as He was when He walked with His disciples. Do this and you will live forever, regardless of whatever your view of hell is. There are two great commandments which we must obey. Trust, obey and live forever.
lambsev 2 weeks ago
LOL bell wishes he didn't take this interview
truthwillsetufree77 2 weeks ago
this is something we all wish was true...but is not.
DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS 2 weeks ago
@DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS Im sorry if it is NOT TRUE, then why even have God, are you familiar with web sites such as Tentmaker (org) What-theHell-is Hell (google.) HopebeyondHell google, Martin Zender(com) Bible-truth(com) Bible Threatenings Explained(google) this is just to get you STARTED! Jesus Christ has SAVED ALL MEN, IT IS FINISHED based on plenty of scripture, Gods judgements are TEMPORAL & for this "age" or eon or in the Greek=AION. Do a study , youll figure it out
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
@Lrothtube are you arguing that hell is eternal or not...?
DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS 2 weeks ago
@DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS Hell, is not eternal, Hell, Sheol is the Grave and that is what Jesus has shed his blood for atonement from sin which we all know the PENALTY in adam for sin is DEATH, Jesus atonement is for ALL men to save us from DEATH. Gods judgements are TEMPORAL because His mercy endures forever. The current tradition of man is that hell=eternal torture chamber, which maligns the TRUE CHARACTER of God and this doctrine of "hell" widely preached is a doctrine of demons.
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
@Lrothtube i wish i could agree with you. nothing would make me happier than finding out that Hell is not eternal and they'll all go to Heaven. but if Hell is not eternal...honestly...why did Jesus die for us in the first place if we were all gonna go to Heaven anyway? the whole death and ressurection saving us would be pointless, considering no matter what we did in this world we would go to heaven anyway. there'd be no need to be a christian even. wherer do you think they go without hell?
DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS 2 weeks ago
@DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS Then I will tell you, you will be happy, and you SHOULD be happy NOW! If we look from the beginning God warned Adam & Eve not to eat of the fruit, they would DIE, nothing about and eternal torture chamber somewhere! Jesus DIED for us to save us from our sin & DEATH nothing else! As in Adam ALL sin(no choice) in Jesus ALL will be vivified "everyman in his own order"(no choice) if we believe now, we are blessed NOW & move into the millinium to rule with Christ, others later
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
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The "flesh" is "destroyed," but the person is not. After all, Jesus said He came "to DESTROY the WORKS of the DEVIL." (1 John 3:8)
We are the Works of Christ. He created us. We are NOT the works of the devil. Only the SIN in our lives is the work of the devil. It is the SIN ONLY that is permanently destroyed. Then we become "A NEW creature in Christ.
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
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The "flesh" cannot be "converted;" it must be "destroyed," disassembled, made new. The "Old man of Sin" must be buried. The carnal fleshly mind "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are flesh can not please God."
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
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C.S. Lewis I think nailed the whole heaven and hell issue on the head in his book, "The Great Divorce," "Even if the pad is locked, it's locked from the inside. All who are in hell choose it, because without that self-choice there would be no hell." Hell is not a place where God keeps people from Himself, it's a place where people are allowed to keep themselves from God. In the end, He gives us what we want, everyone who truly longs for heaven and endless joy will be there in the end.
Drooblemeister 3 weeks ago
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Drooblemeister 3 weeks ago
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If God created us in his image and in his likeness, then would you throw your own child in a furnace for sinning? No matter the crime, you would never want eternal punishment for your child, therefore we are God's creation,made in his image and likeness so it makes more sense to believe that God loves us so much he will forgive us in the end. LOVE WINS!!
omarmiguel3 3 weeks ago
Bell bases alot of his opinion off of the idea of time. But time only exists for us humans, but not truly in eternity. Eternity is forever and beyond. It is not a period, it is endless. People send themselves to hell because they reject the payment for their sins and thus they have to make up for them in which they cannot because only eternal salvation is possible because Jesus is God and God is endless, thus such a enormous payment could be paid for sin, but not by us.
DMLDisciple 3 weeks ago
@DMLDisciple Nope, you have it all wrong! So what youre saying is that mans "unbelief" is a sin? Thats gets them in some eternal torture chamber somewhere? Oh , I see now, so if unbelief is a sin, then are you going to say that is the only "sin" that Jesus blood cannot atone for? Hmmm? "Free-will, mans choice" is a doctrine of demons, we dont choose God, HE CHOOSES US. we are NOT a part of the salvation process! its not like "believing" jumpstarts the promises of God. Jesus said it is FINISHED!
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
@DMLDisciple Your are unfortunately believing in a tradition of man, eternal torture chamber and freewill are false doctrines. God is SOVEREIGN, HE IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL, the good the bad and the ugly, if you can even speak Jesus name out your mouth it all the GRACE of God that even allows you to speak it. I declare that Adams sin, the adversary, mans "choice" do not trump Jesus Christ blood atonement for ALL men, all men are saved "everyone in their own order" 1Corin. 15-22-25, kapeesh?
Lrothtube 2 weeks ago
bible-truths(.com) really fun place to be, I love it I am growing so much in the Lord at this site, deals with a lot of issues, such as hell, the ages, and so forth...check it out!
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
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If ALL the dead are either alive in hell or alive in heaven, who, pray tell, is God going to resurrect back to life from the dead when He returns to judge the world in righteousness? How can the dead be living in heaven or hell when they haven’t as yet been judged as to where they should be living in the first place?
Lrothtube 3 weeks ago
@Lrothtube They're already judged, the end is for those of us who are left im pretty sure
DoNtMeSsWiThMyJeSuS 2 weeks ago
Many die for a few hours or more and come back to talk about hell. Dr. Donald Whitaker had that kind of experience and states emphatically that there is a hell.He changed radically and became a moral and Godly man.Now how does that account for some saying you have to believe in the Lord before you die. There are some exceptions.He totally didn't believe then when He called on this Jesus that someone preached about He escaped suddenly! Where was he? Hell. He said yes.What's up with His story?
mamamialove 4 weeks ago
If God's outside of time then he would of known that some people would be going to "hell" because of seeing the future. So my question is- if Rob Bell is wrong, why would God have ever created the world in the first place?
BKBinc 4 weeks ago
No, Rob - it is NOT a possibility. Why do people who are not fluent in these ancient languages question the work of hundreds of translators who are fluent, and have dedicated their lives to understanding both the languages and the culture of that day?
edadan2009 4 weeks ago
So if NOT believing is Jesus is a sin, that will send MOST to hell, then was this just to big of a sin for Christ blood to atone for?Oh I see the sin of "unbelieving" is the only sin not covered by Jesus Blood, hmmmmmm then if we "believe" it is OUR actions that really "jumpstart" salvation. I thought we believed BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED, I didnt Know we ARE SAVED ONLY WHEN WE believe, the Fathers plan and Jesus atonement is a big FAIL according to current teaching, because 95% are gonna fry
Lrothtube 4 weeks ago
Its unfortunate that so many Christians give people the idea that hell is where they belong based on their style, or way of life. But Jesus Said "I am the just judge"...That means that I and all other Christians are not. Therefore what right do we have to tell people they are going to hell. Living life by the teachings of the church doesn't guarantee you a place in Heaven, Gods love does. So I agree with Rob that God isn't an ultra hater, he loves his creations and would do anything for them. :)
LlahNahgem 4 weeks ago
All he did was do the Mexican hat dance around all of the questions. He is a heretic, and he is going to burn in the place he denies.
pretoshohmoofc 4 weeks ago
I've been a christian all my life untill recently. I was, for lack of a better word, a hardcore christian. I praised god, worshipped him, and loved him. But it wasn't untill recently that I started questioning christianity (probably because I am 17, an age full of becoming a man and questioning life and stuff) and I found a lot of things disturbing. Hell. So if a man, like gandhi, lived his life as a great, nice person but didn't believe in jesus, than he will be burned and tortured forever?
micah960 1 month ago
@micah960 How could a loving god do that? And people are so numb to, saying someone will go to hell like it's nothing. Hell is, atleast from what I've been tough, where you are burned and tortured without mercy day after day after day for thousands, millions, and billions of years. So how could a loving god let that happen? I'm not trying to start a fight or attack anyone who is a christian, I'm just a 17 year old guy who wants to know
micah960 1 month ago
@micah960 Ok buddy, good thing youre using that pretty little brain gave you, unlike others who call themselves"christians", you are RIGHT in asking such a question, because any critical thinker knows Gods not gonna fry most of mankind made in his image. Go to these sites-study for yourself friend, Tentmaker(org) Martin Zender (com) salvation of all, universal salvation (org) bible threats explained should send you on a beautiful path of Jesus the Savior of ALL! google these sites
Lrothtube 4 weeks ago
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The "flesh" cannot be "converted;" it must be "destroyed," disassembled, made new. The "Old man of Sin" must be buried. The carnal (fleshly) mind "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are flesh can not please God."
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
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@micah960 The "flesh" is "destroyed," but the person is not. After all, Jesus said He came "to DESTROY the WORKS of the DEVIL." (1 John 3:8)
We are the Works of Christ. He created us. We are NOT the works of the devil. Only the SIN in our lives is the work of the devil. It is the SIN ONLY that is permanently destroyed. Then we become "A NEW creature in Christ.
jamesstenbeck1977 3 weeks ago
@micah960 but how are you judging Gandhi or any other 'good people' by our standards or by all mighty God. nobody is good the Bible says we were all born into sin. If God doesn't punish sin he is not being just. imagine a heaven with murders ,thieves, and people who dont love Jesus to me that would be horrible seeing that heaven is all about worshiping Jesus. Good question though!!
DR3W4848 1 month ago
We can pay the penalty of sin for ourselves, or come to Jesus who payed the price in full.
MrJazzeman 1 month ago
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MrJazzeman 1 month ago
its funny there all arguing over god for which they all have a different definition...thus this conversation CANT go anywhere...
mrdk216 1 month ago
I'd like to know where in Jonah he's talking about with the hebrew word "olam". I couldn't find it.
survivalizer 1 month ago
@survivalizer It's found in Jonah 2:6 "about me for ever (`owlam)", Strong's h5769.
Clearly Rob Bell has taken this out of context, as Jonah is speaking metaphorically here and is ridiculous to take the meaning literally. Compare it to Gen 3:22 "and live for ever (chayay `owlam)" and one can see how he has used it out of context.
MrJazzeman 1 month ago
I think i lean more towards Rob's argument. If i worship a fair and merciful God, which i believe i do, then how can the same God punish someone in North Korea or Africa or anywhere else that has never heard the word of God or has never even held a bible? If God loves his children, which i believe he does, then how can he punish his children eternally when some of them have never heard God's word?
800baileyc 1 month ago
@800baileyc The only "unforgivable sin" is to knowingly reject Christ. How can one reject Christ if they never heard of Him?
harvestsoulfly 1 month ago
It's Rob bells own contextout of context period..Not the Word Of God which is pure in truth.Eternity with Christ or Eternity in Gods wrath which is Hell,God is Holy and He is Lord.God choses to do away with such the way he pleases and in hell they will still know He is Lord.Theres Grace and then theres Wrath where the worm never dies.
titusneeko 1 month ago
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WHAT IF HUMAN NEVER EXISTED AND ONLY ANIMALS DID, DO YOU THINK THERRE WOULD BE HELL? ANIMALS HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT HELL IS. SO GUESS WHAT, HELL IS MAN MADE. AND NO IM NOT AN ATHEIST.
UMANEDAKIDD19 1 month ago
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Imagine, if instead of having these age old debates we prayed and shared the gospel with people that they might get saved. The devil is a master at distraction. Come on believers, our job is to preach the Gospel and see people saved! Use your time wisely! Trust "the Holy Spirit to guide you into truth" not John Piper, Rob Bell, Francis Chan or anyone else. Praise God for the good they do but they are not our Guide. The Holy Spirit is, and He has never misinterpreted Scripture.
TheSunShinesbyGrace 1 month ago
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TheSunShinesbyGrace 1 month ago
I wish I could be on bells side sometimes and just piss of some of those Christians that feel threatened by his book...if they had any confidence there would be no dismissal like at 1:00
cheesypasta 1 month ago
God doesn't send people to hell. People who send THEMSELVES to hell. The Bible clearly says that hell is for satan and his demons. It was never meant for us. But if you chose the way of sin and satan you will be with satan eternally when you die.
Glory2theLamb11 1 month ago 9
@Glory2theLamb11 yes but if the way that an individual recieves the good news is entirely circumstantial? this mean that if you prescribe to predestination, then God is pretty much picking who he wants to go to heaven. And this, in turn contradicts His nature (in that He loves us all equally and without conditions).
staygoldponyb0y 1 month ago
@Glory2theLamb11 ok, I see now, my "free will" saves me, I MAKE the choice, duh, it is my DECISION that trumps Jesus atonement, sorta like as in ALL men are sinners in Adam( no choice) only a very small group in Jesus are saved(their choice) I get it now, Adams sin, the adversary, and mans CHOICE all are more powerful than Jesus atonement, wow, I didnt realize what an epic FAIL, God the FATHERS' plan is, Im sure Him &Jesus r sittin there saying "pick me, pick me"! I though God was Sovereign!!
Lrothtube 4 weeks ago
@Glory2theLamb11 The ones that choose Jesus must really be the smart ones', the other must be really dumb, arent you glad you are one that MADE THE DECISION, to save yourself by your own faith? Lucky! I always thought that God CHOSE US, & it is HE who IMPARTS the measure of faith, thats what the scripts say, but you know how those can be misinterpreted, especially theKJV with all its false doctrine on "eternal torment/hell-fire" ,that rightly dividing the word is for the birds, silly God, FAIL!
Lrothtube 4 weeks ago
@Glory2theLamb11 God Also knew from the beginning who would chose life or death,he knew the choices we would make and our failures as well.So then Bottom line is people have bring things upon themselves be it good or bad by the choices that they make and God knew all this before they ever even took place.
spanky5476 4 weeks ago
@Glory2theLamb11 @Glory2theLamb11 The concept of hell, in itself, is wicked. And I'm glad to know that I have to send MYSELF to hell in order to go.
That's an absolute guarantee that I'm not going.
chrislrob 3 weeks ago
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@Glory2theLamb11 @landsdown44 wow and still the eastern orthodox goes on in peace and harmony, people all this was worked out centuries ago...
Jesusisthetreeoflife 2 weeks ago
Oh ok... I didn't realize Hell was just the timeout corner.
itsCarsonSmith 1 month ago 2
Honestly if Hell isn't forever, then why did Jesus die for us...
MrLyckitySplyt 1 month ago 13
@MrLyckitySplyt "hell" used by Jews and Jesus is the grave, Jesus saves us from death, he is the FIRST born among many brethren, Jesus was literally dead, for three nights, dead dead. If Jesus is the propitiation for our sins(& He is) and he saved us from ETERNAL torment, HELL FIRE, then he would STILL have to be there for ETERNITY, he went to the GRAVE, that is what we are saved from ALL of us, is DEATH, THE GRAVE,
"christians" spout the false doctrine from pagan religion of "eternal torment
Lrothtube 4 weeks ago
@Lrothtube Well saying that Hell isnt eternal is degrading what Jesus is for us.... the doctrine says that the chief purpose of God is to be glorified. if Hell isn't eternal then God isnt reciving the glory that he should. Also remeber that not EVERYONE is saved... there are going to be people in Hell..."that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
but we need to remember that Hell is for a place where people STILL THINK that they dont need a savior.
MrLyckitySplyt 1 week ago
@MrLyckitySplyt So he can live forever with those who choose him!!
alexbrouwer100 3 weeks ago
@MrLyckitySplyt So that we could experience God's love for us in Heaven? Just saying... Regardless of whether hell is eternal or not shouldn't we be focused on being apart of God's love eternally? Why would u want someone to burn eternally? I doubt God would let it happen either.
rhin0butt 1 week ago
@rhin0butt have u honestly though to yourself that maybe God's way of justice is way more developed than Our own opinions? That maybe the God who created us think DIFFERENTLY than how we do? I believe that everything in the Bible is true, and if God says that, that is who he is, then we have to take it at what he says. But yes we should be focusing on God's love, but if saying that Hell isn't eternal is like saying that Heaven isn't eternal.
MrLyckitySplyt 1 week ago
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Pynkrobot 1 week ago
@MrLyckitySplyt Well didn't satan used to be an angel in heaven? Who was cast out of heaven?
Pynkrobot 1 week ago
@Pynkrobot yes
MrLyckitySplyt 1 week ago
@MrLyckitySplyt So than heaven ISN'T eternal?
Pynkrobot 1 week ago
@Pynkrobot How can you make that conclusion?
MrLyckitySplyt 1 week ago
@Pynkrobot How can you make that conclusion?
MrLyckitySplyt 1 week ago
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@Pynkrobot How can you make that conclusion?
MrLyckitySplyt 1 week ago
this Love Wins debate is going to go on forever... sort of like being in a whale forever... metaphorical...
felkery 1 month ago
hell= eternal separation from God, not eternal suffering,.. chechout the word "hell" in hebrew. is compared to the "lake of fire" that is refering to "genea" that was literally a lake of fire were already dead's body were thrown and dont deserve a memory like a grave...
MrOxidizer 1 month ago
@MrOxidizer its not genea, its gehena, and you are spot on about its meaning
Gresh85 1 month ago
@Gresh85 sorry for the misspelling, anyway, there is a lot of people that think like me.. "Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."- Jude 7.. is Sodom and Gomorrah burning right now??? no... again, is an eternal separation, fire= destruction.. the wages of sins is death, period..
MrOxidizer 1 month ago
@MrOxidizer You are on it bro...Bell claims that he doesn't believe "God is like that." Its because he has a distorted view of the severity of sin. He obviously has no clue how devastating sin is and how it goes against the awesomeness of God's holiness. Hell exists because it speaks to God's eternal holiness and eternal righteousness in eternal judgement..,
Gresh85 1 month ago 2
@Gresh85 um, not sure where youre getting this doctrine? So me chap &verse tying Gods holiness, mans sin, and hell all together, So when Jesus payed for all mans sin on the cross with his blood, now youre saying it isnt good enough, Hmmmm? So as in Adam ALL sinned,but in Christ only a few who make the RIGHT CHOICE r saved?Hmmm, seems to me adams sin trumps Jesus Blood, darn, I thought it was a good plan to save all but it looks like Jesus failed, adam, satan&mans choice is stronger than Jesus
Lrothtube 4 weeks ago
@Lrothtube True that! :)
LlahNahgem 4 weeks ago
@MrOxidizer Wouldn't eternal separation from God mean eternal suffering?? If not, what would it mean?
nilladiscgolfer 1 month ago
Hell Is Fire And Brimstone For Eternity. It doesn't matter what people is comfortable with - it's a matter of truth/lies.
lifeInAFallenWorld22 1 month ago
For all those Christians out there: Please pray for MrSavedbylove. In his life he has been taught false things about the Christian faith and someone has deceived him. Pray that he would come to know the true God and that his heart would be filled with the love of the Holy Spirit and the knowledge of Jesus Christ who came and died to save him of his sin and the Wrath of God. I certainly am and what better way to show your love for him! Spread the Gospel and the Good news always never faltering!
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 pray for yourself dear.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Also, I'm not your 'dear' and using it to belittle me is not very 'loving' of you.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
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@emurdoch100 IF HUMAN NEVER EXISTED ONLY ANIMALS, DO YOU THINK THERRE WOULD BE RELIGION OR BIBLE? ANIMALS DONT KNOW HOW TO WRITE A BIBLE OR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT RELIGION IS. SEE WHERRE IM GOIN WITH THIS, THE BIBLE AND RELIGION IS MAN MADE. IF HUMANS NEVER EXISTED, NONE OF THIS RELIGION AND BIBLE WOULD BE TALKED BOUT, THATS REAL SHYT. IM NOT AN ATHEIST AND I DONT BELONG TO ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP, IM NOT BRAINWASHED *COUGH* SOME CHRISTIANS. I BELIEVE IN GOD BUT I DONT NEED RELIGION
UMANEDAKIDD19 1 month ago
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emurdoch100 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove I believe in Christ Jesus, who's is the lord God. I believe he came to die for my sin and save me from God's wrath. As such, I follow his teaching.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 since you claimed you read Romans, what did it say? oh, wait...
Romans 2:6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Seriously, I said read the whole book! You can't gain an understanding of Romans by simply looking at chapter 2! If you read on to chapter 3, it puts these verses you quote into perspective! Romans 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
emurdoch100 1 month ago
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@MrSavedbylove 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. The book of Romans is a continual narrative and as such, if you stop half way through, you only gain half the picture and thus something which is completely out of context.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Yes, reading the Bible is hard sometimes and things don't make sense, but you can't come at it from the point of Google search or a random verse analysis otherwise this leads to misinterpretations, as can so clearly be seen by your comments.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 Reading the bible isn't hard to me, maybe to you. i humbled myself and asked God to reveal his truth to me, to clear all the questions that were plaguing my mind, he answered me. Christian creed is filled with lies, deceptions and nonsense belief, i questioned all of it, i was naive, when i prayed, i found the truth. paul acknowledged that love is greater than all the gifts of the holy spirit. you know what you need? love, meditate in it, ask God for it.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove The truth of the Bible is that Jesus came to die for your sins and al you have to do is have faith in him and you'll be saved from God's wrath. Your knowledge of anything Biblical is filled with lies, as myself and others have countlessly proven (Romans 2 for example) I know God is loving, but that does not cancel out God's righteous anger towards sin and his just punishment of it.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Nothing you say can be accepted, it is not biblical, it is riddled with contradictions and self righteous arguments and you also preach from a book you don't trust or believe in. That is hypocritical and nobody trusts a hypocrite. Stop following your own ways of dreams and fairy tales of which no proof exists and pray to God with a sincere heart to have the truth of Christ Jesus laid bare to you, otherwise, you're on a trip to self destruction. You'll realise sooner or later.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 If you did you'd know more about repentance.
samuel45 1 month ago
@samuel45 I'd know more about repentance if I did what?
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@HappyRoadCone hey. Don't really want to get too involved in this very intense and in depth debate, but just to say even though I haven't been Christian that long, I would definitely trust what emurdoch100 and samuel45 are saying! Please don't get swept away by people who claim anything other than the simple and basic teachings of the bible...so simple and obvious if you read the bible that even a new Christian can clearly understand what Christianity is about! Good luck with the debate guys!
Elbel191 1 month ago
@Elbel191 Well done :) the fact he keeps marking comments he doesn't like as spam so they will be removed is a little insight into his heart.
samuel45 1 month ago
@HappyRoadCone Take it this way, MrSvedbylove doesn't believe half of what the Bible says, pulling verses out of context and claiming things that are nowhere to be found. However, this does not stop him using it to preach his Gnostic views. If you want proof, look down the comments. You'll see he takes something I said and twists it to what he wants. Don't listen to someone who can't even read within the context.Explore it yourself and pray about it when you read it and you'll come to understand
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 i believe in showing love to others, i believe in God, what else? i don't believe in your christian creeds, it doesn't work for me. it's funny though, check his channel to have a glimpse of who he is, he isn't your average, not a confused person looking for answer from people like you. i am laughing out loud imagining how people like you would react when they die, after seeing everything, and seeing how confused and naive they've been. smh
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Christ died for everyone, its not a matter of 'he's for me or not' I pray that you see Christ's wonderful gift of salvation for you. Come judgement day, you'll be held accountable for your actions and this is no laughing matter. I pray God reveals the truth to you, as I worry for your salvation.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@samuel45 and by 'another' I mean it's good to have someone else who understands the Bible and what it preaches. I saw he thought we were alive as spirits before we were created...I don't think he understands that God is eternal with an eternal mind and that he 'knew' us before we were here. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we were with him before as 'spirits' He needs prayer! He also need to learn how to read historical texts. It doesn't take a degree to do that.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
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@MrSavedbylove I did not say you were an 'AGNOSTIC' I said Gnostic! They believe we fell from the heaven and found bodies and have been lost and that Jesus is the same as us but not tainted. How can anybody trust what you say on the bible if you can't even read a simple comment on Youtube?!
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Both Jesus and Paul taught about God's wrath and the coming judgment after the 2nd coming of Christ. Both state that to be saved, you must have faith and believe. They show God's love through Jesus Christ death on the cross John3:41-16. The bible also states that false those who did not have faith, or believe, will be thrown in the lake of fire. Also, we can repent of or sin in this life, but it's not simply stopping doing something. It's asking Christ/God for forgiveness.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 being saved is having faith and believe? believe in what, having faith in what? you mean if you go about causing problem to mankind and have faith and believe, you are at peace with God? you are confused.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove did jesus ever preached that having faith and believing in him is what will save mankind? does it mean mankind were never saved before jesus was born? that has to be the most stupid thing someone will ever go out to preach. see, christianity sparked racism due to the fact that they carried the racism of the jews and made it their tradition. the jews hated the Phoenicians although david and jesus were half Phoenicians, ruth was a Phoenician if you don't now. lol
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Yes, Jesus did preach these things! John3:16 For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only son so that all BELIEVED in him would not PERISH, but have ETERNAL LIFE. Mankind was not meant to live in a world of sin, unfortunately, sin entered the world when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. Those who lived by God's word in the OT were promised a saviour and animal sacrifice was used as a temporary solution to the final sacrifice = Jesus death on the cross.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 Buddy, don't bother getting angry. Prayer is all you can do. It is a sign of this generation (I'm 24 by the way, not a golden oldie): a move away from sin and replacing it with a concept of God which provides no fixed basis. He puts forth question upon question and then questions the original question, typical of deeply rooted uncertainty. There is no firm answer because all is speculation CREATED by their own interpretations of the bible. Take care.
samuel45 1 month ago
@samuel45 I know! Also, I think he's been marking my comments as spam...I'm 20 and have been a Christian since I was 17 and have been reading and studying my Bible ever since. He has no clue what he's talking about. He does what many do and take single verses out of context and then they obtain another meaning. I'm studying Ancient History at University and we're taught how to spot this and also how to look at texts within their context and he's not doing it right. It's good to have another!
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 i never marked your comment as spam, you are paranoid. you are 20? i am 31, learn from your elder.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 Good man! I'd like to study History, I guess in a sense I do, the Bible. Ha
samuel45 1 month ago
@samuel45 Yeah, it's more fun than it sounds. It was one of the reasons that helped me become a Christian, learning about past events, religions and differing views with surprising outcomes. And yeah, if you're studying the Bible, you're studying history, whether you're a Christian or not.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
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@emurdoch100 IM 20 AND I DONT BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES, HOW YOU 20 STILL BELIEVE TALKIN ANIMALS, MAN WALKIN ON WATER, TURNIN WATER INTO WINE? GROW UP. MY HOMEGIRL SHES BEEN A CHRISTIANS SINCE SHE WAS 15 AND SHES 19 BUT SHE DONT BELIEVE ALL THAT AND SHE DONT WORSHIP JESUS SINCE HE SAID NOT TO WORSHIP HIM, SHE TRIES LIVIN RIGHT LIKE HE DID, SHE PRAYS TO GOD LIKE HE SAID DO. SHE KNOWS JESUS WAS JUS A HUMAN BEING, ALL THAT 100% MAN 100% SHE KNOWS IT DONT MAKE SENSE.
UMANEDAKIDD19 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Believing in Christ Jesus and having faith that he died for your sins. No, living by faith and being a Christian means you follow Christ's commandments and through your faith, your fruits of the spirit are shown, as the Holy Spirit is working in your heart. I did not say being saved means you can go about causing problems. That is a Universalist view and I am not one of them as it's not Biblical
emurdoch100 1 month ago
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@emurdoch100 MY PROFESSOR IS AN EX-CHRISTIAN, CUS OF ALL THE FALLACIES. CHRISTIANITY STOLE PAGAN IDEAS. ONLY GULLIBLE PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE ALL THAT NONSENSE, BUT NOT MY HOMEGIRL, SHE HAS A MIND OF HER OWN. SHE KNOWS CHRISTIANITY STOL PAGAN IDEAS. LIKE PAGAN HOLIDAYS, CHRISTMAS IS A PAGAN HOLIDAY. SHE CANT STAND FAKE CHRISTIANS WHO PREACH LIES. SHE DOES AS JESUS SAID TO DO, DONT WORSHIP HIM JUS PRAY TO GOD AS IN THE LORDS PRAYER WHICH IS PROOF HE WAS NOT DIVINE.
UMANEDAKIDD19 1 month ago
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@MrSavedbylove Yes, Jesus does preach and so does Paul, but they DO NOT miss out God's wrath and eternal judgment. It is preached in the OT and the NT. You just need to read it and it's very clear, no matter how you try and put it. You're making the Bible palatable because you and others like you are scared you'll hurt someone's feelings. If you want the verses, I'll happily post them up! Also, this nonsense about being spirits fallen from heaven is not biblical whatsoever.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
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emurdoch100 1 month ago
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emurdoch100 1 month ago
Hell is a state we create for ourselves when our unloving acts overshadow our acts of love. when we are conscious of our actions to others, it will help us in achieving our spiritual growth. hell is a place where the emotions of what we did on earth hunt us, it's a place of regret remorse, we will escape it when we go through those emotions, feel remorse for how we treated others and then ask for help. Nobody judges us when we die, after our life review, we judge ourselves because we will see
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove cont.., our actions towards others. our spirit is filled with love,forgiveness, mercy,giving, and all the positive, but when we come to this earth and dwell in a flesh, we battle with it and its desires, we battle with ego. we need to come to a point where we are able to control our fleshly desires and our ego, we need to create a harmony with our spirit and flesh. our conscience always knows the truth. any act of love you perform anyday, helps you grow, it could be: ...
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove cont2... it could be: helping a helpless old lady carry her bag; helping a stranded motorist get a fuel; helping a poor homeless man with food, cloth, or shelter; putting smile in someone's face; forgiving someone who offended you,etc. christian creed isn't universal, but love is universal. ask yourself this, what about those who lived without hearing about christ or reading the bible? is favoritism a part of God? why would God favor a religion more than others? God loves us all
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove cont 3..because, before we were born, we existed with him as spirits, he knew us before our birth, we knew him, we were conscious before our earth life, but forgetting who we are helps us attain our goals. We even chose who our parents should be because we know they would help us achieve our earthly goal or goals. if God is the one who gives offspring, why would he condemn a Muslim, abudhist, a hinduist but still bless them with a child who he knows will end up in hell? think!!
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Yeah, revelations and Jesus were and therefore must be wrong. There is no Hell, hey in fact there is no devil! So there is no right or wrong. everything is what is it. Jesus wasted his time. NO!
WE CANNOT JUDGE OURSELVES BECAUSE WE CAN NEVER BE, NOR ARE, SOURCES OF ORIGINAL CREATION. SOMETHING, MINE BEING GOD, JESUS AND THE HP, ARE THE SOURCES OF ORIGINAL CREATION AND HOLD MANKIND ACCOUNTABLE.
Let's completely mess up the minds of the future men and women hey?
samuel45 1 month ago
@samuel45 john's revelation was a recycled book of Daniel, if you want, i will send you something on how it is explained, you would see it yourself and judge by yourself. in daniel, the prince of peace was going to be angel Michael, but in revelation it was Jesus. Does satan exist? well, we have to ask ourselves, what does satan mean. satan means "adversary", if someone discourages you from following your dream, he or she is your satan, it's a hebrew word.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove John is not a recycled book of Daniel at all and this is coming from a Historian. I have studied both books and one is not a copy of the other. Also, in Daniel, the Prince of Peace was not going to be the angel Michael. I don't know where you got that from! Also, the book of Isaiah prophesies Jesus coming throughout - Why he was coming and what he would do and that he would be GOD.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@samuel45 cont.. is there a spiritual entity called satan? there's no evidence to that, no one has ever claimed he or she saw satan either in a dream or in near death experience, no one. right and wrong? i have said it time without number, we are here for a purpose, each one of us has his or her own purpose. love and forgiveness is the ultimate in our spiritual growth. we have our conscience and that's our spiritual compass. you can't deny the ripple effect of love, imagine when....
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove you give a homeless man food or cloth, how his face lit up? imagine when you help an old lady that needs help, how her face lit up? when you give to foster kids, the letters of thanks you receive, you can't deny how it makes you feel. imagine when someone you offended, tell you that he forgave you, the feeling you get? do you know the ripple effect of love? do you know that if america play the role of love as a big brother to other countries, it will change a lot in this world.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove IM not going to respond any longer. The fact you didn't acknowledge a need to repent for sin is a saddening concern to my heart. The persons who taught you this should be worried for the judgment they SHALL RECEIVE. You've got love right in so many ways but it is empty without Jesus, repentance and forgiveness. The bible says 'How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to God's WORD' The Bible is fundamental to love, you overlook or are ignorant to bits you fear.
samuel45 1 month ago
@samuel45 no body will receive any judgement, why would you receive a judgement when your life will be reviewed in your presence? Can you be rational for a second? do you think you can lie as a spirit? when your life is reviewed to you, you will automatically know if you lived right or not, and no one is going to judge you. since you don't know, the presence of jesus christ is filled with love, enormous love no one has ever felt. i pray you come to the truth one day. peace out.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove cont...a wrong behavior or action. when you stop eating too much, it's repentance, when you stop bullying that little boy in school, it's repentance. when you stop cursing your parents, it's repentance. according to you, repentance is when you say "jesus, i accept you as my lord and savior......." that is it, nope. first, you have to be conscious of your actions and the truth in love will always guide you. Jesus thought about love and God, not himself.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove 'lived it right' Is salvation through works and both Paul and Jesus preach against this and that salvation can only come through Faith in Christ, 100% God, 100% man. Also, the rest of what you state here does not make sense! I pray you come to know the truth very soon, so that others will not fall into the trap of believing not matter whether they believe in in Jesus or not, they're saved.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 According to the bible, we are saved from the world, we are in the world but not of the world. the problem is, the translator didn't know the reason this earth was made at the first place, do you think this world was created for christians? do you think everything centres on being a member of a religion that's filled with confusion? if you want to see the obvious evidence that there's a problem with christianity. look at the different denominations.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove When the Bible says that it is because we live in a world of sin. We are saved from that world and the wrath of God which is coming towards it. The Bible has had many translators and they have all come to the same means. You are very arrogant and ignorant if you believe you know better than all of them!The world was created for all people. Paul shows this in the book of Romans, in that salvation was not only for the Jew, but for the gentile.
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Also, Christianity is no religion, it defines my Faith in God. Jesus preached against religion and said that all who believe in the son of man will be saved, that being Jesus. Yes, there are many denominations, but they all hold true to the major truths, like the trinity and Jesus' divinity. They differ on minor things, like spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues and male/female preachers. I'm sure there are also many denominations of your 'religion' what ever it is. Gnostic?
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@emurdoch100 this is what pauls said, it's either he was confused (which i think he was sometimes), or he didn't know what he was saying. this is paul, read carefully: Romans 2:
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." ,
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove Romans2:1-4 States that those who judge others judge themselves and as such will be judged the same by God. 5-11 Speaks of God's wrath being served out on the day of JUDGEMENT to those of a selfish nature (God does not show favouritism) 12-16 Speaks about judging those apart from the law perishing apart from it and those living by the law being judged by it. 17-24 The Jews taching the law, but not living by it. 25-27 speaks on circumcision 28-29 Circumcision of the heart etc
emurdoch100 1 month ago
@MrSavedbylove So what you are saying is OUT OF CONTEXT. Don't preach on something you DON'T believe in, as it is clear you don't unde