J-20, SU-PAK, will start panic buying of F-22s in the next few years though. By Pentagon, he really means Robert Gates, who hates fighter jocks and wants to build RC toys suitable for propping up 3rd world despots. The perfect way to control us as well someday. If Chinese paratroopers are landing on my front lawn, I don't want MRAPs and drones. I want fucking F-22s and some fucking M1 tanks to blow the shit out of those (insert racial slur hear).
By reading your brainless comments you might want to take a look at Dr.Seymour Melman's video on youtube (entitled "Jacques Satisky (R.I.P.) & Dr. Seymour Melman (R.I.P.) 05-17-89 Original air date") about the military industrial complex and possible economic conversion and disarmament. Jump to 24:00 for S.Melman.
@cr9527 HAHAH WHAT!? F-15 Eagles cost 30 Million per unit dumb ass, F-22s are 150 Mil. I do agree that other countries are trying to replicate our F-22s capabilities but they are at lest 10 years away from commission and will not nearly have the quantities of our 150+ F-22s and the going to be 2000+ F-35s. It seems your forgetting that we are building the F-35 witch are much cheaper and are still far more advanced than any other countries fighters.
Latest model F-15s costs in excess of 100 million flyaway.
F-35 is currently being considered to be cut in half, or completely by the Obama administration. While it is a good plane, it certainly won't cut it for many roles F-22 is designed to play. That is air superiority.
If F-22s were produced in numbers of 500+, the unit cost would've dropped below 100 million.
Well I wonder if the Russians played us like a fiddle. Another words....like chess, made us think we don't need F-22's so we cancel the program only keeping what we have and BOOM now they unleashed PAKFA much earlier then intended and by the looks even seems more intimidating than both our 22's and JSF. The fact Russians found cheaper ways to build stealth planes means they can keep on building and outproducing as well as outselling us which means in the end we have no choice but to rebuild F22
spending between 6 to 800 billion$ annually and continueing to increase is in my opinion devastating... paying for the wars in the middle east with nothing but debt makes it even worse since US debt is allready in the 10s of trillions and any intelligent person knows that THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE... the military industrial complex OWNS the united states and i dont think that america can break free from their grip...
i hate to say this but people have to realize how much trouble america is in
we are the #1 military in the world, the #2? the EU who if we wanted too we could enialate. Iraq was the #4 world military power when we entered in 03 and we beat them like a adult fighting a child.
we waste more money on the military than anything else(i am a veteran and fought in OIF in 03 by the way). no other nation can compare to us militarily and we don't need to keep building jets to keep it that way, we need to invest in science to expand our defense abilities.
No you are not going broke JUST for the size of your military or its equipment ALONE but it aint helping matters to ply Billions of dollars into it either is it ?
it really isn't hurting since we do not purchase much if any military hardware from non american manufatures, not to mention that the spending into military weapons research and developement is on of the biggest reasons that we are the leaders in inovative technologies, with out the large military budget we wouldn't have had the ground work for lots of the techno gadgits that people buy up and or use, like the internet for example, or cell phones, etc....
cont- i think we would be alot better off if we did what most of the world cries that we should do, mind our own business. stop sending any type of monetary aide to any nation for any reason. no more israeli welfare state, or funding aide missions to the third world, or operating military bases in nations that don't want us their. that would serve the US better i think.
Just 10 years ago, we were dogfighting with russian-built planes over serbia. Dogfighting is still a reality. The russians still produce and sell very advanced planes to other countries. And their newest fighters can easily defeat our older jets. We need a plane that can dogfight and win. We still need the F-22 Raptor
The "likelihood" that we willneed these planes increases every day we have a communist led government in office which has no other agenda than to take all of your constitutinal rights, ruin the economy, and make SLAVES of whatever remains of the U.S. population after killing off all the true Americans.
Mazakaman I don't think I have ever heard such delusional nonsense. I wish Noam Chomsky was your country's president but it ain't gonna happen. You now have an erudite president after the shame of the Bush years - cheer up!
we're already slaves baby. 50% of my income gets taken by master now. hes a slick devil here in america tho. he doesnt even need chains and is smart enough (as were the roman dictators) to allow the illusion of constitutional govt to continue.
mazakman1957 here is where it is all leading to. The fact that Representive Govt. has failed and no longer repects individual rights. The entire bureaucracy needs to be overhauled by we the people are not organized enough yet to come together and force a change in the system. United as a population we stand and divided we fall and that is exactly how it is today.
Did it pass the House? Are they dumping the F-22? It is a step in the right direction if they can drop it but we have a long way to go turning this ship around. The military industrial complex is VERY BIG. Write your congressmen.
industrial military is one of the main control agents of this country. big guns=big money, and big money is what makes this country run. although, our system has failed because we have been screwing over other countries and mother earth and our own people. i wont be surprised if our "economic recovery" fails miserably and we bring down the whole world with us, just so we're not alone in failing
All those politicians(mostly republicans) who bitched and moaned when we bailed out the American auto industry turn around and vote to feed more and more of taxpayer money to the Military Industrial Complex. Go figure.
You forgot to mention that the F-22 Raptor DOESN'T FLY IN THE RAIN. No shit, it literally doesn't work AT ALL when small droplets of water are thrown at it. And the fact that 40 congress-men voted to KEEP it under all of the circumstances involved here should truly enrage people.
Doesn't fly in the rain-eh well maybe it's a green vehicle and the rain will slow it down mach .5 and zingo 3000 gal of jet fuel into the clouds. And hey Obama uses unmanned drones REALLY WELL BOOOMM - 300 dead insurgents.
Of course it has flown in the rain. Did you just randomly pull that out of your ass. The F/A-22 is just insane. Working with aircraft my self I can tell you the F/A-22 is the best aircraft to ever fly. It defies physics. But we are in a economic crisis. So we need to save our money. But their are already enough F/A-22 built. And their actually going to go to the front lines in 2010. To mostly scare Iran.
@silentm3t4l - You can't be serious . . . why would they build 20 some million dollar planes that rain can render useless? I know the Government is full of unenlightened suckers of Satan's COCK but come on, the military industrial complex has more sense than that . . .
Theres still enough 22's to fill out a couple 1337 intercepter squads. Probably enough to fly cover against most of the combinations of air forces in the world...
without looking any facts myself, becaue im lazy, cant you just maintain the ones we already have? do they have a shelf life? and cant we simply switch the plants over to more useful crafts, like bombers?
You cant just keep military tech lying around. There something called upkeep. Thats why faced out hardware, be it tanks or other, a lot of the time ether gets sold strait away or chopped up. You cant just store stuff like that at no cost, but they wont decommission the F22 any time soon.
As for the cold war being over, which it is, we in Norway are still intercepting Russian Tupolev Tu-95 strategic nuke bombers, so its not like those routine flights have ended, but we went for the F35.
It's amazing how far-right the parties have lurched. If Ike Eisenhower, a Republican, ran today he'd be considered a Communist by current US political standards. He raised taxes on the rich to 90%, he supported most of the New Deal, he used the military to enforce Civil Rights, he was wary of the military-industrial complex, etc.
As a lefty I actually like him better than JFK who lowered taxes and was cozier with war. Though he was still a damn sight better than Bush and Raygun.
1 + 1 = 2 right? Genius !!! 40th anniversary of journey to the moon. Just a race to a rock?? Look at the spin offs from the program. Satellite, rocket technology, computers, GPS The medium that allows you to exist and broadcast (internet) was developed by the pentagon. True, money is vile big player, but simplistic ignorant conclusions are as dangerous.
The question is why are we in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. The answer is becaus of the Military Industrial Complex makes lots and lots of money off of these illconceived operations. Get rid of them now.
Yea Cenk, i'm sure your big player insider the Pentagon...moron. The former Soviet Union, a.k.a currently has a more advanced fleet of aircraft than we do. The Air Forces f-15 has been IN service for more than 30 years, the Russians have aircraft that were brand new designs 8 years ago. And they are selling them to china as well. The newest aircraft in service is the F-18 which came out in the 80s. People are bitching about the cost, but no one is stupid enough to disagree that we need a new jet
Obama's in a double-bind. On the one hand, he cut jobs during a depr- er, recession. Down the road, people are going to club him with that side of the story. On the other hand, if he chose to fund it, people could beat him up for "typical democrat wasteful spending." Sucks to be him.
Omg you didn't make it past the first sentence without fucking up, The F-22 was built and designed after the Soviet Union fell, did you look this up? The F-15 and F-14 were our main interceptors to counter various Russian aircraft the F-22 was built as a replacement for the ageing F-15 which was designed in the late 60's early 70's, One F-22 can replace a 5 F-15's, so if you do the math the maintnence on the F-15's would actually cost more than just replacing them with F-22's
Moron it wasn't finalized untill 1990 by the Locheed Martin company, and then not contracted by the Government to be built till 95, after a compition with boenigs YF-23, the first one of the line came out in 1997, so if we didn't need to replace the F-15, Which is not cheap to maintain, If we had no need of the F-22 they would have canceled it then as the Army did with the Kamanche program, and honestly what do you know about its capability's other than what websites say,
the whole project started in 1981. The competition for the contract ended with YF-22 winning in 1991. Right around when Soviet Union was collapsing. So the plane was already designed and contracts were promised before USSR collapsed
Can't we manufacture something besides weapons? We have so much money for all these bloated military projects but not enough for social security and healthcare?
for real. a single dollar for health care and republicans throw a hissy fit, but gazzillions for military contracts and wars is totally fine. noone should even question that. My ass.
The most we should have to pay for defense is 50-100 billion. If we're paying 4 or 5 times that, something's wrong. At least use the weapons you have now before you ask contractors to make NEW ones and spend even more money on extras we don't need. Fucking idiot legislators and president
Eisenhower spoke about this decades ago. He was a Republican and a military career man. I spent close to a decade in the U.S. Navy and personally saw a lot of waste.
This has to stop! No matter where you stand politically this is bullsh*t!
Eisenhower even once said he doesn't want one cent spent on defense more than necessary! And we've spent HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS more than necessary. And for what? To waste time in Iraq and Afghanistan? For a possible showdown with Iran, who still has ZERO nukes (but, they say, "could" make nukes)? To waste time paying attention to stupid ol Kim Jong Il in poor-ass weak-ass Communist North Korea? come on!
remember rummy on 9/10/01 ?? over 2 trill. unacounted for, missing, no clue , puff,
away, nada , zip....not even baught shitty or overpriced stuff with it....soon this is a decade ago and relevant records of companies that could give us a clue may be gotten rid of at one point in time.....! those are usually kept for 10 years.
You have to ask the people who voted for Bush that one.
One thing is though you do need weapons that are able to take the fight to the enamy, You cannot play prevent defence all the time because the only thing that it prevents is a win. Meaning while we should focus first on defending the country instead of invasion we also need to have the ability to invade.
Things like the F22s arnt built for wars like these they are built for wars against countries with militarys like ours.
There are some toy soldiers in the pentagon and in congress that are building an even more advanced fighter.
It is called the Joint Strike Fighter, that is support to combine the power of the F22 with the stealth of the f19. I guess they are making it to fight extraterrestrial alian Invasions, and I do not mean Mexicans.
So far the only application of the Joint Strike fighter is formaking science fiction movies.
You cannot rely on another country to supply your mass military with weapons. If you went to war with that country or an ally of that country or the decieded to stop sending the weapons to you. You would be fucked. While it is a nice gun our companys are coming up with some stuff that is going to be pretty darn nice. And no Im not talking about that plastic POS M8
Well, here's the thing about going to war with other countries. Once you do, they can't sue you for copyright infringement if you duplicate their stuff.
As for going to wars with allys of that country, Germany (where heckler and koch is from) is a member of NATO, which makes them our ally.
Thats true, Also yes I know they our are ally but nobody knows what the future holds. I dont see us not being allys anytime in the near future but I also wouldnt but all of my eggs into that basket because you never know. Their is just some things you dont do and that is one of them.
I could see your point about not putting all of your eggs in one basket, but if you can get some better eggs for the same price, why not? How many soldiers' lives could be saved if their guns didn't jam nearly as often? Or if they had better body armor?
F-22's and F-35's are great to have for air superiority, and having air support does help, but most of the fighting done today is on the ground.
The reason special forces get guns like these are because they're the best.
I 100% agree and that is what I said in my previous posts, We need better ground stuff vehicals and kits. When it comes to the ground though that US military is always 20 years behind where they need to be. I dont know when they will replace the M4's but I do hope soon by at least 2014. But once again I must stress 1. they will never buy foreign and 2. they should never buy foreign. And its only because of the reason I give.
Our gear is fine it is not 20 years behind. The M-4 and all the M16 variants fire a 5.56mm standard NATO ball round so we all have the ability to operate in multi national missions. The M4 is good for MOUNT operations when supported with a Crew served weapon of 7.62mm also a standard NATO round
the old stuff is the vehicles which were built for WARSAW PACT fighting and not urban terrain fighting and IEDS. It is the training and the mentality that is 20 years behind and not our gear.
I thought about this for a while and I remembered something. We *sell* military equipment quite frequently. The U.S. sell plenty of military equipment to allied countries. Why not buy some in that case zippy?
As to the comment lobos made about how military equipment can't be left sitting around...... they are left at the The 309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group also known as the Boneyard.
The funny thing is they are so new and so advanced and unlike anything anyone has ever flown a pilot said it will be a few generations of pilots before the true potential of the aircraft is unlocked. WIch is nice because by then they will be in the "C" config which once you hit that the're isnt much more you can upgrade on the aircraft. (2016 2018 maybe)
Well like I said the F35 is more advanced both in the airframe and in the tech that is being put in it. If you are asking Air to Air name a more dominant fighter then the F22 I cant because there isnt one. But you asked "more advanced" wich the F35 is. But you have to consider they are about 10 years apart in conseption. The F22 was desinge in the early 90's the F35 was desinge in the early 2000's.
Also the F-35 is more advanced then the F-22 in airframe and tech. [The F22 will be upgraded in a few years to the F35 tech (F22B)] The difference is the F-22 is purpose built to do one thing and that is shoot other planes out of the sky like the F15. The F-35 on the other hand is a multi role strike fighter like the F16 or F18, It will be used to support troops on the ground while the Raptor flys top cover. Its nice because now troops will be able to get air support deeper in the AO.
Our military always suffers. Though if they arnt going to spend the money on more Raptors (wich they should) they should at least spend it on better ground equitment cause the humvees just arnt doing the job anymore.
As long as they arnt killing project's (Clinton) I dont see a problem in not buying more F22's cause we cant afford them and for now we have enough, But if the need does come I hope it will be easy to re-open the factorys and start building more.
Thats not true at all. The EU Fighter, the Dassault Rafale and the Mig-29 are the new big boys on the block when it comes to 4th gen. Hell both the DR and the 29 smoked our F16's and the EU Fighter has confirmed kills on early Raptors WVR. The F-15"E" version is the bomber version the F-15 "C" is the fighter version. Both the F-15 and the F-16 are old airframes no matter how much tech you put in them they are quickly becoming obsolete. This is one problem we have when the Dem's are in office.
anyone knows what happens to the 1.5b now they stopped building the F 22s? Does it go towards the repayment of debts or will just be used for some other defense spending?
Thank goodness it was stopped. The Dept of Air Force even stated these planes would cripple their budget and deter from the production of UAV's and the F-35. Not only was the F-22 too expensive to build but its maintenance was too high and it would of sucked the AF's budget dry and keep them from funding real necessary items that meet today's mission.
its a sad day when the left wants our soldiers to die and our national security to be at risk so they can save a few extra dollars to throw away in a socialist medical system
jogo, the right wants to let the taliban kill captured soldiers and spend billions not on dragonscale armor or hk416, a rifle far superior to what the soldiers use now in order to keep them alive, but on torture prisons and super expensive fighters.
F-22''s and F-35's have nothing to do with keeping the hundreds of thousands of soldiers alive. Its about blowing stuff up real good.
The left wants them to be taken out of unnecessarily harms way. The righr wants to blow stuff up real good.
Yeah thousands of civilians dying due to lack of decent healthcare versus how many people dying because of lack of aircraft that aren't even being used? You act like we have ZERO F-22's or any other aircraft.
jogeryjogo, this was a vote that had BIPARTISAN support. John McCain, not exactly a left winger, was at the forefront of this effort. You have no idea what you're talking about
America should fight a good landwar on their own soil, so u get a good idea of what war is, like we experienced in europe, then maybe you'll talk differently then eating your fastfood while far away your soldiers fight, maybe when your house get blown up and your friend arm gets blow off in fron of your eyes, u might have a different stance on war!!
its nice to spend all that money on military while letting americans down... Really such a big waste if u would use that money to upgrade roads, trains, help american lives. Damn u could live the best live on the planet. But your ballss are so small that u need to waste it on more military to feel safe. U should keep going till the budjet is about 95% militaru. Then u can be proud , while your bridges fall apart and people die that cant afford healthcare. Oh yes the great beacon america...
The F22 was such a waste. 3rd generation American war planes have wiped the floor with soviet built fighters in every war so far. The gulf, the Arab Israeli wars. etc. Why they seemed to want one even more advanced than the F15/18 i have no idea.
The F35 is a much better plane, its capable of carrier borne operations, and should have a versatile ground attack as well as fighter role. Its got more endurance and is safer than the Harrier. There's also a lot of countrys that will want to buy it.
i think they could probably still use them to straif and bomb cities at twice the speed of sound. And that's fast, and it probably hurts, but; what if we don't have that, and we really reallly really need it.? Then what? It's not a good first strike weapon, but if you really took pleasure in hurting other people and knowing they were dying but you did not give a crap, this would be the status ride to take! Let's get rid of the ones we already have.
Guys, the funding from this is not going to go to the f-35. Its just being shifted from one plane to another. Its not going to health care, or schools, its going to a different plane.
Suspending funding from the F-22 in order to accelerate the production to the F-35 without drastically increases military spending is a good idea.
Permanently shutting down the most advanced air combat fighter ever isn't. And no, this isn't a liberal/conservative issue. I would think the vote on it proved that.
its always about money. if its was free there would no problems. every thing we do is about money.that's no good because i want your money. and mine is better then yours. and on and on.
The "dogfight is over" thing is getting old. People are saying that since WW2 and they got proven wrong every time. Remember the shitty fat weaponless interceptors getting pwned by 20yo migs 17 over Vietnam...
TYT you're wrong about this. SO SO SO WRONG. I'm not in favor of the MI complex, but these things cost billions of dollars and decades of research. We can't just stop trying to make weapons - and an air superiority fighter is a necessary platform - because we aren't fighting, we need to constantly be updating. The world isn't peaceful, enemies are out there, we need to regularly update our weapon systems... the liberals (I'm a liberal btw) are DEAD wrong on this
Now, I will happily accept that the budget for the F-22 program needs to be cut, but to KILL it entirely is stupid. We need platforms like this because let's face it, countries often fight one another. We should shift from production to R&D, but we shouldn't just cut and run. Then, as mentioned previously, we could use that money for education, healthcare, etc.
Most of the anti-F-22 sentiment IS liberal though, that's all I was referencing. Except for a few Ron Paulians out there, most conservatives are in favor of the military all the time. The overarching point though is that we cannot simply stop advancing our military, unless we want to hold hands with everyone and sing campfire songs - which would be cool, but impossible
This statement is dumb. First they aren't getting rid of our all planes they are taking the most exspensive one and making cheaper more efficent ones. I mean the USA has air superiority over the whole planet except for maybe a few hot shot mig pilots. How many countries do we have to destroy before you will safe Charr05?
First of all, you end your post with a personal attack on me which is baseless, unnecessary, and wrong. I do NOT support wars of aggression, what I support is having a strong military. I would LOVE for a world government where we were all equal and war was unecessary (think Star Fleet Federation). Unfortunately it is unrealistic. As to your first point, I KNOW THEY ARE. My point was the Cenk said the F-22 should just "end", that means terminated, i think it would be foolish to terminate it
This is silly. So what you're say is that we should keep an expensive, inefficient fighter because it makes some people feel good?
This is right up there with the B2 bomber and the Paladin artillery platform.
By the way, what do fixed costs have to do with variable costs? According to your argument we shouldn't get rid of any programs because we spent money on them in past.
Read Crickett2814, he basically writes what my point was. My argument was NOT that we should never get rid of money just because we already have sunk costs. The Paladin was an unnecessary platform, but the B-2 (as the most advanced bomber in the world) is not a waste of money. I mean, just the technology involved in building it (not just the technology inside it) will some day be worthwhile, like the internet, or microwaves, or jet engines, have been in the past.
First, we're not getting rid of it. We did pay for the planes already built as well as some that have yet to be built. I'm sure we'll use them.
But it is completely unnecessary to build any more. In fact, I would never have started building them in the first place. I would have made 5 at most with a plan for manufacturing them. They are simply unnecessary for the forseeable future. If China attacked us tomorrow we still wouldn't need them.
Well now we are speculating, See what you have to understand is like the Space program civilianze benifit from all the new toys the military builds heck the very internet we are using is a bi-product of something the military came up with. 187 honestly I would have been good right now with 100, but heck if you go 187 you should go 200 even. But honestly we cannot affored it and I would like to see some new ground toys cause our shit is getting old.
this is how they make money "disappear".....they've been funding that out of date model for years...Not Making them...just taking the money for.......? a question that SHOULD be asked...
It always amazes how some idiot kids on Youtube with a thick-faced sense of entitlement is merrily coasting on the accomplishments of their ancestors and taking pride in the wars they fought, and act as if they were somehow a part of it and take some credit for it. "We saved your asses back in WW2!" or "If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German!" What a bunch snotty little pricks.
The very fact that he thinks they are "fighting" the military industrial complex, is just funny as all hell. Or that he think his party in fighting for him....How ignorant can you be?
nobody wants to see the conflicts in which such a plane would be required, i think we are about ot overcome war altogether, the usa with its crude archaic mlitarism is one of the last anchors, with the spreading internet and people making international connections of their own war becomes less and less possible, people dont go to war with people, not even the militaries really want to fight each other, like slavery and human sacrifice war will be a heinous absurdity of the past
I think you might be right. At least I hope you are (don't want to jinx it). I honestly believe that large wars ala WW1 and WW2 might be a thing of the past for the next 200 years or so. You'll never be rid of regional conflicts like those in the middle east and Africa. That's human nature. But the more industrialized nations become and the more interwoven economies become the less likely anyone will want to spend money on killing each other.
You dont know the human condition very well, There is more money in war then in anything else. You will have wide spread WW type wars again. The question is when though. My hope is it's after the nuclear era. Someday we will find something that kills as effectivly as a nuke but doesnt have the dirty after effect and thats when the game will be on. The next 100 years is going to be interesting but I'm sure thats what they said in 1900 and in 1800 ect...
Thatcher's reductions before the Falklands war shows that it's a bad idea for the UK to cut back military programs behind a certain level. With the carriers you have now you can't launch really modern planes with large payloads and that means the UK would have to take a big step back in international military power in a decade or two without the new carriers.
The alternative may be to give up places like the Falklands, or even Gibralter.
Yep. The carriers are worth it. It's just too bad we're spending so much on planes, destroyers, submarines and now more vehicles for afghanistan that our defense spending is sure needing more funding.
US defense $635 Billion per annum. All the rest of the countries in the world, added together, Europe, Russia, China, Japan etc. just spend $500 Billion. And we arent any safer. The CIA keeps manufacturing turmoil so they just can keep our Military Industrial Complex and the Central Banks going, as we the taxpayer goes broke. It would be cheaper to love the world to death. In Iraq alone we killed 1 million Iraqis. No wonder the world hates us. We must stop this preemptive aggression, or die.
i wouldn't say we don't need them. we need a small number of them, which is what we have- 187 i believe. a small number of f-22's can gain air superiority anywhere in the wolrd very quickly.
Yeah your right, it's not like they have stinger missile launchers (given to to by the us to fight the soviets) or you have bunker busting bombs or your troops need air support
We actually have many f-22's. But the fact is that the f-22 is 30 years old. there are many new more advanced fighters out there. Should we continue to build the model T
But we spend money on turtle tunnels in FL. Idiot people in our government. If the past years proformance does not clean out the scum in DC I don't know what will. They are selling us out to the Federal Reserve and the Bilderburg Group.
The F-22 is going to be like the B-2 bomber, its only going to be used very sparingly in combat unless there's a full out war. We can all agree this is the best plane in the world right now,even better the SU planes. Still, people the Senate only ended at 187 planes. There's still 141 out there and 46 still need to be made.
The US really doesn't need such an expensive jet. The current jets which the US do currently have are sufficient for the role which the US is in. I mean seriously, to fight the taliban, all you need is a propeller plane from world war 2, with a high precision laser guided bomb attached to it.
Our planes like the F-15, F-16 designs are over 30 years old and the F18 is around 30 years old too. To be the best and put in new planes the F-35 is the best choice. With other countries participating the program and increasing funding for this jet, the costs per plane will go down even though it is expensive. Still, the possibly of a dog fight is always possible in N. Korea or Iran if that happens in the future which I hope not.
Even then, the US has sufficient military power to combat anything Iran and North Korea even try to throw against the US.
Besides the US already has over 150 F-22's, send them if a war (Unlikely) arises with North Korea and Iran. If they aren't suitable, then, I guess the F-35 would be another aircraft you could use.
But let's stop playing arm-chair general, you don't actually need the F-22 which is why your government are placing stops on orders of it.
sukhoi is generations ahead of the f22. any comparison is absolutely pointless. f22 is slower, carries less, and is less manouvable. sukhoi owns boeing and lockheed all day every day.
J-20, SU-PAK, will start panic buying of F-22s in the next few years though. By Pentagon, he really means Robert Gates, who hates fighter jocks and wants to build RC toys suitable for propping up 3rd world despots. The perfect way to control us as well someday. If Chinese paratroopers are landing on my front lawn, I don't want MRAPs and drones. I want fucking F-22s and some fucking M1 tanks to blow the shit out of those (insert racial slur hear).
1st503rdSGT 1 year ago
By reading your brainless comments you might want to take a look at Dr.Seymour Melman's video on youtube (entitled "Jacques Satisky (R.I.P.) & Dr. Seymour Melman (R.I.P.) 05-17-89 Original air date") about the military industrial complex and possible economic conversion and disarmament. Jump to 24:00 for S.Melman.
Idosander 1 year ago
fuck the young turks, fags
Armenia for life motherfuckers
tHeWasTeDYouTh 1 year ago
1. F-22s will be used/needed in a war against any nation with any air defense sophistication. Iran is building up to that.
2. F-22s are NOT expensive. They are cheap compared to what they can do. 130 Million compared to 80+ for Tiffies, 100+ for eagles.
Expensive? I think not. Also, with a larger number ordered, the production cost will drop to around 80-100 million.
3. Thus far, we have 3 countries with programs to try counter F-22, and 4 more considering one.
Good Job!
cr9527 2 years ago
@cr9527 HAHAH WHAT!? F-15 Eagles cost 30 Million per unit dumb ass, F-22s are 150 Mil. I do agree that other countries are trying to replicate our F-22s capabilities but they are at lest 10 years away from commission and will not nearly have the quantities of our 150+ F-22s and the going to be 2000+ F-35s. It seems your forgetting that we are building the F-35 witch are much cheaper and are still far more advanced than any other countries fighters.
sniperwarrior23 1 year ago
@sniperwarrior23
Latest model F-15s costs in excess of 100 million flyaway.
F-35 is currently being considered to be cut in half, or completely by the Obama administration. While it is a good plane, it certainly won't cut it for many roles F-22 is designed to play. That is air superiority.
If F-22s were produced in numbers of 500+, the unit cost would've dropped below 100 million.
cr9527 1 year ago
Well I wonder if the Russians played us like a fiddle. Another words....like chess, made us think we don't need F-22's so we cancel the program only keeping what we have and BOOM now they unleashed PAKFA much earlier then intended and by the looks even seems more intimidating than both our 22's and JSF. The fact Russians found cheaper ways to build stealth planes means they can keep on building and outproducing as well as outselling us which means in the end we have no choice but to rebuild F22
strizhi 2 years ago
i'd laugh after they abandon F-22 production russia decides to attack US..:P
TurkFutbol10 2 years ago
spending between 6 to 800 billion$ annually and continueing to increase is in my opinion devastating... paying for the wars in the middle east with nothing but debt makes it even worse since US debt is allready in the 10s of trillions and any intelligent person knows that THAT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE... the military industrial complex OWNS the united states and i dont think that america can break free from their grip...
i hate to say this but people have to realize how much trouble america is in
LcoolJfiveoh 2 years ago
@LcoolJfiveoh and yet John Bolten is asking for a war with Iran;)
an1792 2 years ago
budget is increasing because the nation's wealth is increasing.
It is sustainable, considering the fact that US lasted the cold war just fine.
cr9527 2 years ago
lmao @50 sec.
skyd171 2 years ago
we are the #1 military in the world, the #2? the EU who if we wanted too we could enialate. Iraq was the #4 world military power when we entered in 03 and we beat them like a adult fighting a child.
we waste more money on the military than anything else(i am a veteran and fought in OIF in 03 by the way). no other nation can compare to us militarily and we don't need to keep building jets to keep it that way, we need to invest in science to expand our defense abilities.
TheEvolver311 2 years ago
yeah nobody can compare to your bankruptcy either...
LcoolJfiveoh 2 years ago
we are not going broke because of the size of our military or its equipment research and developement
TheEvolver311 2 years ago
TheEvolver311
No you are not going broke JUST for the size of your military or its equipment ALONE but it aint helping matters to ply Billions of dollars into it either is it ?
ZEITGEISTism 2 years ago
it really isn't hurting since we do not purchase much if any military hardware from non american manufatures, not to mention that the spending into military weapons research and developement is on of the biggest reasons that we are the leaders in inovative technologies, with out the large military budget we wouldn't have had the ground work for lots of the techno gadgits that people buy up and or use, like the internet for example, or cell phones, etc....
TheEvolver311 2 years ago
cont- i think we would be alot better off if we did what most of the world cries that we should do, mind our own business. stop sending any type of monetary aide to any nation for any reason. no more israeli welfare state, or funding aide missions to the third world, or operating military bases in nations that don't want us their. that would serve the US better i think.
TheEvolver311 2 years ago
Just 10 years ago, we were dogfighting with russian-built planes over serbia. Dogfighting is still a reality. The russians still produce and sell very advanced planes to other countries. And their newest fighters can easily defeat our older jets. We need a plane that can dogfight and win. We still need the F-22 Raptor
TryAgain1986 2 years ago
ahem, TSR2 anyone?
bodunchar 2 years ago
The "likelihood" that we willneed these planes increases every day we have a communist led government in office which has no other agenda than to take all of your constitutinal rights, ruin the economy, and make SLAVES of whatever remains of the U.S. population after killing off all the true Americans.
mazakman1957 2 years ago
Mazakaman I don't think I have ever heard such delusional nonsense. I wish Noam Chomsky was your country's president but it ain't gonna happen. You now have an erudite president after the shame of the Bush years - cheer up!
Weepingwine1 2 years ago
we're already slaves baby. 50% of my income gets taken by master now. hes a slick devil here in america tho. he doesnt even need chains and is smart enough (as were the roman dictators) to allow the illusion of constitutional govt to continue.
extremetea 2 years ago
GUESS WHAT you liberal "Young Turds"?
Obama and a little more than half of the senate and congress are working for the SAME people Bush worked for...the WORLD BANKING organizations.
America NEEDS the F22 along with the newer F35 to keep you jerks free and safe, though you can't think past your next party....
mazakman1957 2 years ago
needs like a hole in the head you mean right?
bodunchar 2 years ago
mazakman1957 here is where it is all leading to. The fact that Representive Govt. has failed and no longer repects individual rights. The entire bureaucracy needs to be overhauled by we the people are not organized enough yet to come together and force a change in the system. United as a population we stand and divided we fall and that is exactly how it is today.
shaithis45 2 years ago
ya we may not need bad ass fighter jets for the wars we are in now but its still a deterent
slayin4free 2 years ago
we'll lend you our eurofighters when the time comes
nicklessz 2 years ago
we dont need your stinkin eurofighters :P
slayin4free 2 years ago
O well, more for us
nicklessz 2 years ago
thats if they can afford them bud ;)
bodunchar 2 years ago
Did it pass the House? Are they dumping the F-22? It is a step in the right direction if they can drop it but we have a long way to go turning this ship around. The military industrial complex is VERY BIG. Write your congressmen.
sleepytomnc 2 years ago
industrial military is one of the main control agents of this country. big guns=big money, and big money is what makes this country run. although, our system has failed because we have been screwing over other countries and mother earth and our own people. i wont be surprised if our "economic recovery" fails miserably and we bring down the whole world with us, just so we're not alone in failing
ronaldtrump 2 years ago
All those politicians(mostly republicans) who bitched and moaned when we bailed out the American auto industry turn around and vote to feed more and more of taxpayer money to the Military Industrial Complex. Go figure.
Idiotbox3000 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
it's a plane for the FUTURE!
YOU ASSWHIPES
IT IS AN AWESOME PLANE IT JUST NEEDS ALITTLE MORE DEVELOPMENT.
AND BY THE WAR THEY DO FLY IN THE RAIN JUST THE STEALTH CAPABILITIES ARE A BIT HINDERED!!
WHAT DO YOU WANT OUR PILOTS FLYING? F15S (GREAT PLANES BUT OLD BUILT IN 1970S)
TheProjektcc 2 years ago
But the US Army needs to hold its position of, military superiority, to keep the status quo.
DarkPractitioner 2 years ago
What about the Senate Democratic Leadership vs HR1207 & S604? Where the hell are you Turks on that one? Fuckin hypocrites.
fatmoleman 2 years ago
You forgot to mention that the F-22 Raptor DOESN'T FLY IN THE RAIN. No shit, it literally doesn't work AT ALL when small droplets of water are thrown at it. And the fact that 40 congress-men voted to KEEP it under all of the circumstances involved here should truly enrage people.
silentm3t4l 2 years ago 6
...REALLY!? I had no idea. How the fuck is THAT effective?!
s13ge 2 years ago
Doesn't fly in the rain-eh well maybe it's a green vehicle and the rain will slow it down mach .5 and zingo 3000 gal of jet fuel into the clouds. And hey Obama uses unmanned drones REALLY WELL BOOOMM - 300 dead insurgents.
lenny380 2 years ago
Of course it has flown in the rain. Did you just randomly pull that out of your ass. The F/A-22 is just insane. Working with aircraft my self I can tell you the F/A-22 is the best aircraft to ever fly. It defies physics. But we are in a economic crisis. So we need to save our money. But their are already enough F/A-22 built. And their actually going to go to the front lines in 2010. To mostly scare Iran.
ihavtugo 2 years ago
@silentm3t4l
F-22 is an ALL weather fighter, rain won't stop it.
cr9527 1 year ago
@cr9527 thank you
2213blaise 11 months ago
@silentm3t4l - You can't be serious . . . why would they build 20 some million dollar planes that rain can render useless? I know the Government is full of unenlightened suckers of Satan's COCK but come on, the military industrial complex has more sense than that . . .
NassimHarameinVedas 1 year ago
@silentm3t4l I didn't even like Jurassic Park.
campbpar 9 months ago
Theres still enough 22's to fill out a couple 1337 intercepter squads. Probably enough to fly cover against most of the combinations of air forces in the world...
I want more 304s....
MacGyverinSpace 2 years ago
military won with the start of the build of that stupid f-22
dangerjuices 2 years ago
without looking any facts myself, becaue im lazy, cant you just maintain the ones we already have? do they have a shelf life? and cant we simply switch the plants over to more useful crafts, like bombers?
grendelee 2 years ago
Youtube video "Obama Axes Pentagon Plan To Build Billion Dollar Tank In Shape Of Dragon" by The Onion explains the issue quite well.
Another guy BlacktailFA has some nice videos on Pentagon waste.
Vamavid 2 years ago
Republicans love pork. Democrats too.
You left out that the planes have serious flaws which could make them useless.
AnotherCuppaCoffee 2 years ago
0:20
Stop right there, there is so much wrong with that statement. You're so called "more advanced" aircraft was stolen from Canada.
Southparker100000000 2 years ago
The F-22 is a beautiful plane, which we don't need.
Where is the US fighting, where will it fight?
Could it be, maybe the middle east, where soldiers will perform far better then airstrikes?
Just don't destroy the planes, you might need them or their parts as some point...
Quelthias 2 years ago
You cant just keep military tech lying around. There something called upkeep. Thats why faced out hardware, be it tanks or other, a lot of the time ether gets sold strait away or chopped up. You cant just store stuff like that at no cost, but they wont decommission the F22 any time soon.
As for the cold war being over, which it is, we in Norway are still intercepting Russian Tupolev Tu-95 strategic nuke bombers, so its not like those routine flights have ended, but we went for the F35.
Lobos222 2 years ago
It's amazing how far-right the parties have lurched. If Ike Eisenhower, a Republican, ran today he'd be considered a Communist by current US political standards. He raised taxes on the rich to 90%, he supported most of the New Deal, he used the military to enforce Civil Rights, he was wary of the military-industrial complex, etc.
As a lefty I actually like him better than JFK who lowered taxes and was cozier with war. Though he was still a damn sight better than Bush and Raygun.
A86 2 years ago 7
1 + 1 = 2 right? Genius !!! 40th anniversary of journey to the moon. Just a race to a rock?? Look at the spin offs from the program. Satellite, rocket technology, computers, GPS The medium that allows you to exist and broadcast (internet) was developed by the pentagon. True, money is vile big player, but simplistic ignorant conclusions are as dangerous.
shaycenter 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
hats4us 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The most transparent President ever...
Occidental College records " Not released
Columbia College records " Not released
Columbia thesis " Not released
Harvard College records " Not released
Harvard Law Review articles " None
RomeoMD25 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
you know why? its obvious. he never went to college. that nigga was shooting dice on the corner and selling drugs during all those years.
fjackson90 2 years ago
What does any of this have to do with the Military-Industrial Complex? You fail at being relevant.
nnamdi247 2 years ago
The question is why are we in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. The answer is becaus of the Military Industrial Complex makes lots and lots of money off of these illconceived operations. Get rid of them now.
czubspenx 2 years ago 3
We need da F22 because wat if we get into war with a real army we need to keep our advantage as these are the best fighters in history
glisx1 2 years ago
Yea Cenk, i'm sure your big player insider the Pentagon...moron. The former Soviet Union, a.k.a currently has a more advanced fleet of aircraft than we do. The Air Forces f-15 has been IN service for more than 30 years, the Russians have aircraft that were brand new designs 8 years ago. And they are selling them to china as well. The newest aircraft in service is the F-18 which came out in the 80s. People are bitching about the cost, but no one is stupid enough to disagree that we need a new jet
DaytonaRoadster 2 years ago
Obama's in a double-bind. On the one hand, he cut jobs during a depr- er, recession. Down the road, people are going to club him with that side of the story. On the other hand, if he chose to fund it, people could beat him up for "typical democrat wasteful spending." Sucks to be him.
superzerox1 2 years ago 2
Omg you didn't make it past the first sentence without fucking up, The F-22 was built and designed after the Soviet Union fell, did you look this up? The F-15 and F-14 were our main interceptors to counter various Russian aircraft the F-22 was built as a replacement for the ageing F-15 which was designed in the late 60's early 70's, One F-22 can replace a 5 F-15's, so if you do the math the maintnence on the F-15's would actually cost more than just replacing them with F-22's
Xx91talonxX 2 years ago
They started designing the F-22 in 1981 MORON. A whole decade before the Soviet Union fell apart.
normalais 2 years ago
Moron it wasn't finalized untill 1990 by the Locheed Martin company, and then not contracted by the Government to be built till 95, after a compition with boenigs YF-23, the first one of the line came out in 1997, so if we didn't need to replace the F-15, Which is not cheap to maintain, If we had no need of the F-22 they would have canceled it then as the Army did with the Kamanche program, and honestly what do you know about its capability's other than what websites say,
Xx91talonxX 2 years ago
the whole project started in 1981. The competition for the contract ended with YF-22 winning in 1991. Right around when Soviet Union was collapsing. So the plane was already designed and contracts were promised before USSR collapsed
normalais 2 years ago
started design, do you think they keep the exact same aircraft design for 20 years in delevopement?...Moron
DaytonaRoadster 2 years ago
dog fights are so yesterday , if you know watta mean.
1 hour flight 30 mentainance.
Realizalize 2 years ago
Can't we manufacture something besides weapons? We have so much money for all these bloated military projects but not enough for social security and healthcare?
sunwing28 2 years ago
for real. a single dollar for health care and republicans throw a hissy fit, but gazzillions for military contracts and wars is totally fine. noone should even question that. My ass.
normalais 2 years ago
the b-2 bomber has parts made in ALL 50 states. no joke.
thedelta88 2 years ago
The most we should have to pay for defense is 50-100 billion. If we're paying 4 or 5 times that, something's wrong. At least use the weapons you have now before you ask contractors to make NEW ones and spend even more money on extras we don't need. Fucking idiot legislators and president
whoo689 2 years ago
Eisenhower spoke about this decades ago. He was a Republican and a military career man. I spent close to a decade in the U.S. Navy and personally saw a lot of waste.
This has to stop! No matter where you stand politically this is bullsh*t!
sachaput 2 years ago 3
Eisenhower even once said he doesn't want one cent spent on defense more than necessary! And we've spent HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS more than necessary. And for what? To waste time in Iraq and Afghanistan? For a possible showdown with Iran, who still has ZERO nukes (but, they say, "could" make nukes)? To waste time paying attention to stupid ol Kim Jong Il in poor-ass weak-ass Communist North Korea? come on!
whoo689 2 years ago
ook iran plays dirty, but that is not news,
remember rummy on 9/10/01 ?? over 2 trill. unacounted for, missing, no clue , puff,
away, nada , zip....not even baught shitty or overpriced stuff with it....soon this is a decade ago and relevant records of companies that could give us a clue may be gotten rid of at one point in time.....! those are usually kept for 10 years.
Realizalize 2 years ago
You have to ask the people who voted for Bush that one.
One thing is though you do need weapons that are able to take the fight to the enamy, You cannot play prevent defence all the time because the only thing that it prevents is a win. Meaning while we should focus first on defending the country instead of invasion we also need to have the ability to invade.
Things like the F22s arnt built for wars like these they are built for wars against countries with militarys like ours.
zippy476 2 years ago
But that is not the whole story,
There are some toy soldiers in the pentagon and in congress that are building an even more advanced fighter.
It is called the Joint Strike Fighter, that is support to combine the power of the F22 with the stealth of the f19. I guess they are making it to fight extraterrestrial alian Invasions, and I do not mean Mexicans.
So far the only application of the Joint Strike fighter is formaking science fiction movies.
JerezJulio 2 years ago
No such thing as the F19, and the JSF is the F35.
What they are working on is a SCRAMjet the US military in cooperation with NASA.
zippy476 2 years ago
We pay to Build a Bomb, we take the Bomb to Iraq and Blow up a bridge, we Pay to Rebuild the Bridge, rinse and repeat.
How exactly doe the Tax payer benefit from that formula?
SATANSbankers 2 years ago 2
You cannot rely on another country to supply your mass military with weapons. If you went to war with that country or an ally of that country or the decieded to stop sending the weapons to you. You would be fucked. While it is a nice gun our companys are coming up with some stuff that is going to be pretty darn nice. And no Im not talking about that plastic POS M8
zippy476 2 years ago
Well, here's the thing about going to war with other countries. Once you do, they can't sue you for copyright infringement if you duplicate their stuff.
As for going to wars with allys of that country, Germany (where heckler and koch is from) is a member of NATO, which makes them our ally.
Crickett2814 2 years ago
Thats true, Also yes I know they our are ally but nobody knows what the future holds. I dont see us not being allys anytime in the near future but I also wouldnt but all of my eggs into that basket because you never know. Their is just some things you dont do and that is one of them.
zippy476 2 years ago
I could see your point about not putting all of your eggs in one basket, but if you can get some better eggs for the same price, why not? How many soldiers' lives could be saved if their guns didn't jam nearly as often? Or if they had better body armor?
F-22's and F-35's are great to have for air superiority, and having air support does help, but most of the fighting done today is on the ground.
The reason special forces get guns like these are because they're the best.
Crickett2814 2 years ago
I 100% agree and that is what I said in my previous posts, We need better ground stuff vehicals and kits. When it comes to the ground though that US military is always 20 years behind where they need to be. I dont know when they will replace the M4's but I do hope soon by at least 2014. But once again I must stress 1. they will never buy foreign and 2. they should never buy foreign. And its only because of the reason I give.
zippy476 2 years ago
Our gear is fine it is not 20 years behind. The M-4 and all the M16 variants fire a 5.56mm standard NATO ball round so we all have the ability to operate in multi national missions. The M4 is good for MOUNT operations when supported with a Crew served weapon of 7.62mm also a standard NATO round
the old stuff is the vehicles which were built for WARSAW PACT fighting and not urban terrain fighting and IEDS. It is the training and the mentality that is 20 years behind and not our gear.
mynameisbobtoo 2 years ago
I thought about this for a while and I remembered something. We *sell* military equipment quite frequently. The U.S. sell plenty of military equipment to allied countries. Why not buy some in that case zippy?
As to the comment lobos made about how military equipment can't be left sitting around...... they are left at the The 309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group also known as the Boneyard.
Crickett2814 2 years ago
The funny thing is they are so new and so advanced and unlike anything anyone has ever flown a pilot said it will be a few generations of pilots before the true potential of the aircraft is unlocked. WIch is nice because by then they will be in the "C" config which once you hit that the're isnt much more you can upgrade on the aircraft. (2016 2018 maybe)
zippy476 2 years ago
Well like I said the F35 is more advanced both in the airframe and in the tech that is being put in it. If you are asking Air to Air name a more dominant fighter then the F22 I cant because there isnt one. But you asked "more advanced" wich the F35 is. But you have to consider they are about 10 years apart in conseption. The F22 was desinge in the early 90's the F35 was desinge in the early 2000's.
zippy476 2 years ago
Also the F-35 is more advanced then the F-22 in airframe and tech. [The F22 will be upgraded in a few years to the F35 tech (F22B)] The difference is the F-22 is purpose built to do one thing and that is shoot other planes out of the sky like the F15. The F-35 on the other hand is a multi role strike fighter like the F16 or F18, It will be used to support troops on the ground while the Raptor flys top cover. Its nice because now troops will be able to get air support deeper in the AO.
zippy476 2 years ago
Our military always suffers. Though if they arnt going to spend the money on more Raptors (wich they should) they should at least spend it on better ground equitment cause the humvees just arnt doing the job anymore.
As long as they arnt killing project's (Clinton) I dont see a problem in not buying more F22's cause we cant afford them and for now we have enough, But if the need does come I hope it will be easy to re-open the factorys and start building more.
zippy476 2 years ago
Thats not true at all. The EU Fighter, the Dassault Rafale and the Mig-29 are the new big boys on the block when it comes to 4th gen. Hell both the DR and the 29 smoked our F16's and the EU Fighter has confirmed kills on early Raptors WVR. The F-15"E" version is the bomber version the F-15 "C" is the fighter version. Both the F-15 and the F-16 are old airframes no matter how much tech you put in them they are quickly becoming obsolete. This is one problem we have when the Dem's are in office.
zippy476 2 years ago
anyone knows what happens to the 1.5b now they stopped building the F 22s? Does it go towards the repayment of debts or will just be used for some other defense spending?
uche007us 2 years ago
Even with the program being shut down, it's not like we don't have any F-22s to show for it. Won't there be about 180 in service?
ScoundrelLB 2 years ago
Thank goodness it was stopped. The Dept of Air Force even stated these planes would cripple their budget and deter from the production of UAV's and the F-35. Not only was the F-22 too expensive to build but its maintenance was too high and it would of sucked the AF's budget dry and keep them from funding real necessary items that meet today's mission.
eaglesflite 2 years ago
its a sad day when the left wants our soldiers to die and our national security to be at risk so they can save a few extra dollars to throw away in a socialist medical system
jogeryjogo 2 years ago
jogo, the right wants to let the taliban kill captured soldiers and spend billions not on dragonscale armor or hk416, a rifle far superior to what the soldiers use now in order to keep them alive, but on torture prisons and super expensive fighters.
F-22''s and F-35's have nothing to do with keeping the hundreds of thousands of soldiers alive. Its about blowing stuff up real good.
The left wants them to be taken out of unnecessarily harms way. The righr wants to blow stuff up real good.
Crickett2814 2 years ago
Yeah thousands of civilians dying due to lack of decent healthcare versus how many people dying because of lack of aircraft that aren't even being used? You act like we have ZERO F-22's or any other aircraft.
MidoriPeanut 2 years ago
jogeryjogo, this was a vote that had BIPARTISAN support. John McCain, not exactly a left winger, was at the forefront of this effort. You have no idea what you're talking about
jamvideo99 2 years ago
The F22 Is an awesome plane. We should have made them just because they're awesome
3star2nr 2 years ago
America should fight a good landwar on their own soil, so u get a good idea of what war is, like we experienced in europe, then maybe you'll talk differently then eating your fastfood while far away your soldiers fight, maybe when your house get blown up and your friend arm gets blow off in fron of your eyes, u might have a different stance on war!!
OnlineAlien 2 years ago
its nice to spend all that money on military while letting americans down... Really such a big waste if u would use that money to upgrade roads, trains, help american lives. Damn u could live the best live on the planet. But your ballss are so small that u need to waste it on more military to feel safe. U should keep going till the budjet is about 95% militaru. Then u can be proud , while your bridges fall apart and people die that cant afford healthcare. Oh yes the great beacon america...
OnlineAlien 2 years ago
The F22 was such a waste. 3rd generation American war planes have wiped the floor with soviet built fighters in every war so far. The gulf, the Arab Israeli wars. etc. Why they seemed to want one even more advanced than the F15/18 i have no idea.
The F35 is a much better plane, its capable of carrier borne operations, and should have a versatile ground attack as well as fighter role. Its got more endurance and is safer than the Harrier. There's also a lot of countrys that will want to buy it.
zoidberg444 2 years ago
i think they could probably still use them to straif and bomb cities at twice the speed of sound. And that's fast, and it probably hurts, but; what if we don't have that, and we really reallly really need it.? Then what? It's not a good first strike weapon, but if you really took pleasure in hurting other people and knowing they were dying but you did not give a crap, this would be the status ride to take! Let's get rid of the ones we already have.
hypnofan35 2 years ago
Sarah Palin resigned as Governor to pilot F-22s and keep an eye on Russia.
ndvuncle 2 years ago 2
very nice lol!
Zoso881 2 years ago
Guys, the funding from this is not going to go to the f-35. Its just being shifted from one plane to another. Its not going to health care, or schools, its going to a different plane.
Suspending funding from the F-22 in order to accelerate the production to the F-35 without drastically increases military spending is a good idea.
Permanently shutting down the most advanced air combat fighter ever isn't. And no, this isn't a liberal/conservative issue. I would think the vote on it proved that.
Crickett2814 2 years ago 3
its always about money. if its was free there would no problems. every thing we do is about money.that's no good because i want your money. and mine is better then yours. and on and on.
SunSin1000 2 years ago
Remember what happen to Pontiac after Jazz died in Transformers? Could this mean that Starscream will die in Transformers 3?
Dantinus 2 years ago
Drones armed with rockets is the way to go. Both sides make money and no pilot gets killed.
chairde 2 years ago
We want more F22s.
The "dogfight is over" thing is getting old. People are saying that since WW2 and they got proven wrong every time. Remember the shitty fat weaponless interceptors getting pwned by 20yo migs 17 over Vietnam...
tommysch 2 years ago
TYT you're wrong about this. SO SO SO WRONG. I'm not in favor of the MI complex, but these things cost billions of dollars and decades of research. We can't just stop trying to make weapons - and an air superiority fighter is a necessary platform - because we aren't fighting, we need to constantly be updating. The world isn't peaceful, enemies are out there, we need to regularly update our weapon systems... the liberals (I'm a liberal btw) are DEAD wrong on this
charr05 2 years ago
Now, I will happily accept that the budget for the F-22 program needs to be cut, but to KILL it entirely is stupid. We need platforms like this because let's face it, countries often fight one another. We should shift from production to R&D, but we shouldn't just cut and run. Then, as mentioned previously, we could use that money for education, healthcare, etc.
charr05 2 years ago
It's not a liberal/repub issue. Weren't you paying attention.
aquaknot 2 years ago
Most of the anti-F-22 sentiment IS liberal though, that's all I was referencing. Except for a few Ron Paulians out there, most conservatives are in favor of the military all the time. The overarching point though is that we cannot simply stop advancing our military, unless we want to hold hands with everyone and sing campfire songs - which would be cool, but impossible
charr05 2 years ago
Then they are not really conservative, are they? If they spend money on projects that are not absolutely required, they are not conservative at all.
keithrockerboblewis 2 years ago
This statement is dumb. First they aren't getting rid of our all planes they are taking the most exspensive one and making cheaper more efficent ones. I mean the USA has air superiority over the whole planet except for maybe a few hot shot mig pilots. How many countries do we have to destroy before you will safe Charr05?
TrollCrusha058 2 years ago
First of all, you end your post with a personal attack on me which is baseless, unnecessary, and wrong. I do NOT support wars of aggression, what I support is having a strong military. I would LOVE for a world government where we were all equal and war was unecessary (think Star Fleet Federation). Unfortunately it is unrealistic. As to your first point, I KNOW THEY ARE. My point was the Cenk said the F-22 should just "end", that means terminated, i think it would be foolish to terminate it
charr05 2 years ago
This is silly. So what you're say is that we should keep an expensive, inefficient fighter because it makes some people feel good?
This is right up there with the B2 bomber and the Paladin artillery platform.
By the way, what do fixed costs have to do with variable costs? According to your argument we shouldn't get rid of any programs because we spent money on them in past.
yaarghmaargh 2 years ago
Read Crickett2814, he basically writes what my point was. My argument was NOT that we should never get rid of money just because we already have sunk costs. The Paladin was an unnecessary platform, but the B-2 (as the most advanced bomber in the world) is not a waste of money. I mean, just the technology involved in building it (not just the technology inside it) will some day be worthwhile, like the internet, or microwaves, or jet engines, have been in the past.
charr05 2 years ago
First, we're not getting rid of it. We did pay for the planes already built as well as some that have yet to be built. I'm sure we'll use them.
But it is completely unnecessary to build any more. In fact, I would never have started building them in the first place. I would have made 5 at most with a plan for manufacturing them. They are simply unnecessary for the forseeable future. If China attacked us tomorrow we still wouldn't need them.
shalcall 2 years ago
Well now we are speculating, See what you have to understand is like the Space program civilianze benifit from all the new toys the military builds heck the very internet we are using is a bi-product of something the military came up with. 187 honestly I would have been good right now with 100, but heck if you go 187 you should go 200 even. But honestly we cannot affored it and I would like to see some new ground toys cause our shit is getting old.
zippy476 2 years ago
this is how they make money "disappear".....they've been funding that out of date model for years...Not Making them...just taking the money for.......? a question that SHOULD be asked...
sailorboy704 2 years ago
It always amazes how some idiot kids on Youtube with a thick-faced sense of entitlement is merrily coasting on the accomplishments of their ancestors and taking pride in the wars they fought, and act as if they were somehow a part of it and take some credit for it. "We saved your asses back in WW2!" or "If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German!" What a bunch snotty little pricks.
JCMac777 2 years ago 5
hahahah!!!
sailorboy704 2 years ago
Thanks for pointing stuff like this out Cenk. The Nation media is too chicken to do their jobs.
BrightWave 2 years ago
The title of this video says it all.
The very fact that he thinks they are "fighting" the military industrial complex, is just funny as all hell. Or that he think his party in fighting for him....How ignorant can you be?
putittogether 2 years ago
nobody wants to see the conflicts in which such a plane would be required, i think we are about ot overcome war altogether, the usa with its crude archaic mlitarism is one of the last anchors, with the spreading internet and people making international connections of their own war becomes less and less possible, people dont go to war with people, not even the militaries really want to fight each other, like slavery and human sacrifice war will be a heinous absurdity of the past
random0815 2 years ago 3
wow random name not so random comment XD
brainlicker1 2 years ago
hey i thought long and hard about it!
.. then i gave up and went with this one :o)
random0815 2 years ago
lol well it shows you gave it some thought :P
brainlicker1 2 years ago
I think you might be right. At least I hope you are (don't want to jinx it). I honestly believe that large wars ala WW1 and WW2 might be a thing of the past for the next 200 years or so. You'll never be rid of regional conflicts like those in the middle east and Africa. That's human nature. But the more industrialized nations become and the more interwoven economies become the less likely anyone will want to spend money on killing each other.
shalcall 2 years ago
You dont know the human condition very well, There is more money in war then in anything else. You will have wide spread WW type wars again. The question is when though. My hope is it's after the nuclear era. Someday we will find something that kills as effectivly as a nuke but doesnt have the dirty after effect and thats when the game will be on. The next 100 years is going to be interesting but I'm sure thats what they said in 1900 and in 1800 ect...
zippy476 2 years ago
For a comprehensive look at Soviet Military build-up, read "The Best Enemy Money Can Buy" by Anthony C. Sutton.
BcallingDB 2 years ago
To further ruin economy with continuing huge military spening is making enemys of america happy.
BeyondWrittenWords 2 years ago
We have the same problem in the UK with our 2 new aircraft carriers.
Typhoon07 2 years ago
Thatcher's reductions before the Falklands war shows that it's a bad idea for the UK to cut back military programs behind a certain level. With the carriers you have now you can't launch really modern planes with large payloads and that means the UK would have to take a big step back in international military power in a decade or two without the new carriers.
The alternative may be to give up places like the Falklands, or even Gibralter.
BobfromSydney 2 years ago
Yep. The carriers are worth it. It's just too bad we're spending so much on planes, destroyers, submarines and now more vehicles for afghanistan that our defense spending is sure needing more funding.
Typhoon07 2 years ago
US defense $635 Billion per annum. All the rest of the countries in the world, added together, Europe, Russia, China, Japan etc. just spend $500 Billion. And we arent any safer. The CIA keeps manufacturing turmoil so they just can keep our Military Industrial Complex and the Central Banks going, as we the taxpayer goes broke. It would be cheaper to love the world to death. In Iraq alone we killed 1 million Iraqis. No wonder the world hates us. We must stop this preemptive aggression, or die.
MyImago 2 years ago 5
i wouldn't say we don't need them. we need a small number of them, which is what we have- 187 i believe. a small number of f-22's can gain air superiority anywhere in the wolrd very quickly.
bmdude7 2 years ago
Probably a third of that number can gain air superiority in most countries.
shalcall 2 years ago
1 hour of flight= 30 hours of checkup?
superb.
Realizalize 2 years ago
Thas pretty standard for a fighter.
HijodeNeton 2 years ago
Yeah you don't want F22's it's not like your fighting any wars
tiredy6 2 years ago
I know, those Taliban cave dwellers keep shooting our fighters out of the sky with their world-class airforce!
blammers 2 years ago 2
Damn those taliban and their SU-37s!
HijodeNeton 2 years ago
Yeah your right, it's not like they have stinger missile launchers (given to to by the us to fight the soviets) or you have bunker busting bombs or your troops need air support
tiredy6 2 years ago
I don't understand how that justifies the continued construction of overly expensive and problematic *air superiority* fighters.
blammers 2 years ago
How many US fighters to date have the Taliban shot down witth Stingers?
westman2003 2 years ago
We actually have many f-22's. But the fact is that the f-22 is 30 years old. there are many new more advanced fighters out there. Should we continue to build the model T
chrisgalizia 2 years ago
Please name one fighter that is currently in production that is more advanced than the F-22.
shalcall 2 years ago
BlacktailFA is a guy on Youtube who makes videos on crazy and expensive military projects. Well worth a look.
Vamavid 2 years ago
But we spend money on turtle tunnels in FL. Idiot people in our government. If the past years proformance does not clean out the scum in DC I don't know what will. They are selling us out to the Federal Reserve and the Bilderburg Group.
joppman845 2 years ago
Hornet is the one they should be building.. Excellent craft, I've flown it a couple of times.
Reqrezentin 2 years ago
Thank you for saying that. The Bush Admin's funding of the Raptor was nothing short of corporate welfare for Lockheed, and completely unnecessary.
Fred13B 2 years ago 2
The Raptor is an excellent craft also....I have been pursued by one while wearing my Iron Man suit...very mobile and fast.
carmie1818 2 years ago 4
Indeed, it is swell isn't it?
Reqrezentin 2 years ago
Comment removed
adobo777 2 years ago
Congress is a puppet of the Military Industrial Complex. With that amount og money, we can invest in health care and improve the education system!!
cerritoboy 2 years ago
but then wont we end up with gold plated kids and syringes instead of military toilet seats?! ;O
Senakujin 2 years ago
I'm totally for this as long as we advance some other technologies, like the trains in our country...they could be much better and faster as well.
seestickglue232 2 years ago
The F-22 is going to be like the B-2 bomber, its only going to be used very sparingly in combat unless there's a full out war. We can all agree this is the best plane in the world right now,even better the SU planes. Still, people the Senate only ended at 187 planes. There's still 141 out there and 46 still need to be made.
redmustang03 2 years ago
The US really doesn't need such an expensive jet. The current jets which the US do currently have are sufficient for the role which the US is in. I mean seriously, to fight the taliban, all you need is a propeller plane from world war 2, with a high precision laser guided bomb attached to it.
NorthPlum 2 years ago 3
Our planes like the F-15, F-16 designs are over 30 years old and the F18 is around 30 years old too. To be the best and put in new planes the F-35 is the best choice. With other countries participating the program and increasing funding for this jet, the costs per plane will go down even though it is expensive. Still, the possibly of a dog fight is always possible in N. Korea or Iran if that happens in the future which I hope not.
redmustang03 2 years ago
Even then, the US has sufficient military power to combat anything Iran and North Korea even try to throw against the US.
Besides the US already has over 150 F-22's, send them if a war (Unlikely) arises with North Korea and Iran. If they aren't suitable, then, I guess the F-35 would be another aircraft you could use.
But let's stop playing arm-chair general, you don't actually need the F-22 which is why your government are placing stops on orders of it.
NorthPlum 2 years ago
sukhoi is generations ahead of the f22. any comparison is absolutely pointless. f22 is slower, carries less, and is less manouvable. sukhoi owns boeing and lockheed all day every day.
genghis6l99 2 years ago
BS. At best it's a stand-off for years to come, the PAK FA will probably chew through f-35's though.
bhutos 2 years ago