Ven. Sujato - Goenka, Mahasi, etc.

[ryogto]

It seems to me that the over intellectualization of these philosophies is not the way of Buddha. Ehi Passika.

[Lizaplenty]

The trouble with Goenka's courses is the tediousness and relentless boredom. People who feel discomfort from having to sit for very long periods, cross-legged and not moving at all, are told to merely observe the pain. People who leave because it is not for them, are labelled 'weak-willed' by Goenka. At the beginning, he says that you will be happy by the time the course finishes. Each day in his discourses, it becomes clear that this is not the case at all. His method is painfully boring.

[findlaymcarthur]

strange post from a monk.Goenka is fine.We are not all able to commit to his level .

[mayhemsci]

The problems with these videos are the titles and the editing. It makes people think that the video is about various individuals and thus sound like gossips. This video for eg., does not even talk about Mahasi Sayadaw.

[dhammatube]

@mayhemsci Good point...

[karmuppet]

10day Goenka Vipassana retreats was a good introduction on how to meditate. the first 3 days is samadhi meditation using the breath and then the rest is vipassana using a "sweeping" technique. and the video dhamma talks cover some of the delusions that we have. i especially like the loathsomeness of the body and the practice vs. theory(swimology) talk.

so for westeners like me who know little about meditation. it's a lot better than trying to figure it out on my own.

metta

[Spiritedbuddha]

@karmuppet I entered meditation by the back door my friend and 2 years later , visited one of Goenka retreat ... I stayed more then 6 days .. Please believe me , i am sad for people getting in that way .

Literary Goenka provoke the student to greed for stage of insight . When in the first place greed is the basic of our instability .

I hope they be well . I hope they meet wisdom .. I could be wrong but when i think about it deeply .... I don't see how ..

[ryogto]

@Spiritedbuddha greed for insight? you mean right purpose? the 2nd stage of the eightfold path? do you mean desiring to be selfless over any other desire? interesting that you see that as a hindrance, when it is this very desire which is necessary to overcome all hindrance.

[Spiritedbuddha]

@ryogto

[ryogto]

@Spiritedbuddha it is not "desire" that we are to overcome, but "selfish desire" our desire is to be towards selflessness, towards liberation for the good of all, because without liberation we cannot be fully selfless, fully compassionate, and fully selfless and of service. So there must be a desire for liberation... not for one's own selfishness, but out of compassion we work to rid ourselves of the self with all earnestness, so that we may be of the most helpful.

[Spiritedbuddha]

@ryogto Friend you saw that yourself? or you are repeating the word of somebody else ? Be honest please ..

[ryogto]

@Spiritedbuddha read the chapter on vigilance, chapter 2 of the dhammapada. it is also the right intent of the eightfold path. "the exertion of our own will to change". "In the Chinese and Pali Canon, it is explained thus: And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve." , "It means... commitment to the spiritual path; good will; and a commitment to non-violence, or harmlessness, towards other living beings."

[ryogto]

@Spiritedbuddha but you ask if I saw this myself.... and yes, from my own experience this is the case, without the strong desire to rid myself of the ego, for the good of others, i would not pursue a spiritual life. the intention has to be there!

[Naveenrahul2010]

Goenka is not a Buddhist but a merchant caste man who says that its for free ON ONE SIDE but gets lots of donation...........He has completely misinterpreted Buddhist teaching when he spoke on NDTV.......

Vipassana is a small part of Buddhism and it great Monks have shown it how......

[praz123]

there is a school of thought that seeks to maintain exclusivity and customization of teachings as per every individuals needs ... which am sure is not something that upholds the universality of dhamma ... this is intellectual elitism of meditation techniques.

[stethoscanomaly]

don't discourage people from taking the first step on the path. even if you don't think Goenka's courses offer the best available instruction, you must recognize that they are the best option realistically available to many people. Why are you discouraging people from taking a small step in the right direction? Also, seeing as Goenka retreats are free, why are you characterizing them as "selling" techniques, or "comodifying" techniques? How can you sit after posting such ill willed videos?

[dhammatube]

He is not saying that there is nothing good about Goenka or Mahasi systems, they brought many people to the Dhamma for sure, but rather that these systems are incomplete and oversimplify the Buddha's teachings which can lead to certain problems for those who follow such techniques, and it is only fair to mention this point. Even if such systems are not money-making ventures, they do compete for popularity.

[ptanisaro]

I happened to know several people who turn from Goenka to traditional system. They all confirm that Goenka system is basically good but simply doesn't fulfil their requirements. And those of my acquiantaces paid for large amount for the course!

[felixoquebec]

what di you mean by "traditional systems"???

[stethoscanomaly]

hey how's that ego of your's helping you along the path? By the way, how do you know what proportion of people on a retreat taught by Goenka actually practice as instructed? How could you even know that? Why are you so malicious? Why do you become so agitated over someone who is spreading dhamma and has the purest intentions and is a great help to many people?

[ourlegacy]

... and checked and validated more specifically as the Thirty Seven States of Enlightenment.

[ourlegacy]

[cont1]

the one and direct path mentioned in Satipatthana, the effectiveness of Goenkajis Vipassana technique does not rule out the validity of other schools and systems of passive and active meditative or yogic practices if they are also comprehensive in covering the four aspects of mindfulness or awareness prescribed and can produce the tangible results mentioned in the Satipatthana sutta.

[ourlegacy]

While Im validating the simple yet comprehensiveness and effectiveness of Goenkajis Vipassana technique (and residential course) based on the unmistakenable benefits from my own practice and subsequent theoretical comprehension through research and reading of unrelated meditation topics within and outside of Goenkajis tradition and of the Eightfold Path as having the matching characteristics, outcome, and the universality of the presence of the four awareness parameters of

[ourlegacy]

[cont1]

walking meditation, reading Zen and Buddhist books, and Shambhala training didnt accomplish. Im grateful to Goenkaji and the simulated forest of the ten-day Vipassana residential course that I didnt need to be a Pali linguist, a Buddhist scholar, a monastic, or fly off to a forest to experience the universal remedy and practice what the Buddha taught.

[ourlegacy]

I did need to do some subsequent comparative reading of translations of Theravadin Buddhist writings and scholarship both within and outside of Goenkajis tradition in validating and making sense (the intellectual comprehension) of the awareness and experiences of not-of-my-doing related to the ten-day course to finally see the direct link and the significance and the purpose of meditation that in years of on-and-off love affairs, doubts, and confusion of doing Zazen,

[ourlegacy]

Since all skillful means, including all human capacity and potentiality, are developed from the skillful means of mindfulness, one does not need to teach (with) many skillful means but teach mindfulness. The Buddha himself tells us in Satipatthāna Sutta that the ONE and DIRECT way is the four foundations of mindfulness. The four frames of reference are: of the body (kayanupassana), of feelings (vedananupassana), of mind (cittanupassana), of mental qualities/contents (dhammanupassana).

[ourlegacy]

I find the minimalist deconstructed uniformity of the teaching with encouraging detached compassion about the fundamentals of meditation and the four foundations of mindfulness with a strong focus on self-exploratory practice necessary and very effective and skillful in making the unknown known, affecting self-directed personal transformation, self knowledge, and confidence with or without a practitioners comprehension, and in mirroring the wisdom and the simplicity of Buddhas core teaching.

[ourlegacy]

[cont2]

Seek to learn to make progress but do not be concerned or attached any techniques, teachers, ways, or systems; they are the rafts we use and not carry. Experiment and master the various concentration techniques in earnest is the effort and the benefit, since the Buddha has already defined the only direct path or system. We take refuge in the Buddha, the Sangha, and the Dhamma on the path to liberation, but we are to practice non-attachment even to the Dhamma.

[ourlegacy]

[cont1]

unknown mental state of clarity, direct peace, non-judgment, multi-perspective empathy and understanding, and perceptive sensitivity immediately after leaving the meditation center in short ten days and as a first timer in retrospection.

[ourlegacy]

However imperfect and incomplete the Goenka system is, I recommend the no-nonsense ten-day residential Vipassana course as taught by SN Goenka in providing and teaching the proven integrative ancient mental purification practices that are consistent with the teachings of the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path, because I am grateful for the progress made and confidence gained during the course and in experiencing, hearing, and thus relating effortlessly with previously [cont.]

[donenoka]

Great explanation

[adehmark]

Thank you Bhante.