that discharge temp sensor is probably out because the unit goes outside temp with that shitty bypass wide open all the time. you should beat the installer with that counter weight.
wow another HACKED zone system... I also asked lots of questions as kids.. I got out of the HVAC biz proper a few years ago.. people still call me to design zone systems.. they are not as hard as people think.. I do retro in variable speed blower drives that surely help with noise and airflow issues, esp if zones vary greatly in size.. I really Like RCS Zone panels...
@eldoradoboy every try the harmony 3 with the air speed settings on it? you can set your cfm for each individual zone. Makes it alot easier even if the system was designed wrong.
@californiaisgarbage really? that sounds like what i need,i got a job line up which is a huge 3 story house and the homeowner wants every half a floor to be his own zone since every floor is so big so altogether i'll have 6 zones... i'm wondering if residential hvac has the technology to handle that one without any bypass damper
@KingRhaul depending on your total cfm and btu you may be able to use one system. or maybe have two small systems. A lennox variable speed A/H or furnace is what the harmony 3 is used with. You can only have 4 zones on this board. so you would need another unit with 2 zones to get the 6 you need. sounds like your chopping the building into a bunch of zones. may be better off with a couple mini splits and eliminating all the ductwork
@californiaisgarbage the unit will be a 5 ton,100k btu,i really dont wanna use lennox neither the homeowner,i'm thinking trane.I know i'll need more than one board, the one thing i wanna find a good solution for is what'll happen when only one zone is calling? for some reason he wants to make 6 zones out of this place,the best idea i got is a 3 stage unit, up to 2 zones per stage and a lil' bypass damper for when one zone is calling.wondering is there's technology out there for a better way
@KingRhaul cant post! Anyway the Lennox setup is the only true zone system that i know of. you can zone a house to run at full capacity with all zones. and as little as a small room and everything in between. you can setup your air speed and keep temp settings for each zone. I have put in hundreds of these without need for any bypass b.s I dont know of any other equipment that has that capability. Check your cfm and btu for each stage of your Trane. Lennox is fully adjustable 4 zone
@californiaisgarbage thanks for the info,i've always rated trane above lennox so guess i've been wrong..i still hate messing with lennox and thier propietary crap but their technology is exactly what i'd need...thought i'd find it in a trane...thanks
@KingRhaul running 100k btu split into 6 zones i dont think is possible. even at half capacity, 50% (if that is possible with the equipment )thats looking for around 1000cfm for the smallest zone to keep from cooking your unit, or icing up in cooling. running that on a small zone, say 3 or 4 registers is going to sound like a jet. so there will be a ton of bypass. Your unit temps will be sky high, or frozen solid depending on heat/cool. im thinking two, 2 1/2 ton sys? or some other combination
@californiaisgarbage i see what you mean, i was think a 3 stage unit which would deliver 40% at first stage, 65% at 2nd and 100% at 3rd stage..so when one zone calls stage one comes on and i'd need the bypass damper,if another zone calls, stage one would still take care of both with no bypass then stage 2 would come in when 3 or 4 zone call and stage 3 when the 5th and 6th zone calls but you just made me realize one thing,even if i manage to balance my cfm's i cant balance mt BTU's properly
We size our systems for the entire house. The zone system's purpose is to help even out temperature differences between upstairs and downstairs. It also helps single system homes with extreme afternoon sun exposure problems. I adjust my start-ups to keep the bypass damper closed when all zones of the system are calling for cooling.
Energy savings are great but the number one concern I hear from customers is the level of comfort in every area of the home.
I don't do anything different. static damper I set is closed for whole house calling. i calculate gain/loss like I would on any other house. When I balance air flow for zones that is when I set static damper so correct flow is sufficient for unit operation when smaller zone is still calling. Noise level is also consideration. Never downsize unit for zoned house. Thats is as you said," It also helps single system homes with extreme afternoon sun exposure problems."
As a tech, I'd kill kittens to have an actual as-built zone system shematic/blueprint on every site. Now there's a video waiting to be made: Walk-thru of a proper zone system install with commentary by an expert. You sound like the right man for the job.
@fhtn020273 It seems very rare to actually have a "As Built" schematic. I have never seen one outside of commercial work. I like that you perform this task.
Zone systems. Also know to us commercial HVAC design engineers as VVT systems. They are fine for some applications, but I rarely recommend them. They are very finnicky and often lead to more problems than benefits. Residential, they work okay, but I prefer the nicer systems with variable speed blowers and multi-stage condensers, and electronically operated bypass dampers.
The systems I work on are not truly 'variable volume'. They are very low tech and economical (read: cheap). Most homeowners want the best technology and performance but are rarely motivated to scribble out a check with an extra digit to the left of the decimal point. Chicks (aka, The Cheapest Creatures on the Face of This Earth) are especially reluctant to dip into their shopping spree funds and shoe allowances to pay for a top-notch HVAC system.
I guess some portions of my video commentary qualify as "thinking out loud". As an installer, I really wonder what the guy was thinking as he was installing the system that I was troubleshooting.
The economy has weeded out a lot of bad apples. The installs are getting better and the start-ups are more thorough. Fewer and fewer of these mistakes are trickling down to me.
Thanks for the kind words, bro. Your channel is the first I've seen one of my videos marked as a 'favorite'. Yeah, I check those things. My ego is much healtier because of it. Thank you.
As you've likely noticed, my videos are geared more toward the installers. Installation and service are inexctricably linked. Words and music. They go together.
I don't recommend that others aspire to be like me because my goal is to be as smart a guys like Dr. Z and Mikie2501.
The original complaint was 'a funky odor coming from the ductwork'. I suspect the fully open bypass duct was pulling condensation off the loops of the evap coil and letting it fall onto the ductboard plenum. Wet fiberglass can emit a 'funky odor'.
Is it just me or does that bypass damper have a massive counter weight. Most of the ones I see have a pretty small weight.(maybe one third the size of that one). Great videos!! Keep them coming.
that discharge temp sensor is probably out because the unit goes outside temp with that shitty bypass wide open all the time. you should beat the installer with that counter weight.
californiaisgarbage 1 year ago
wow another HACKED zone system... I also asked lots of questions as kids.. I got out of the HVAC biz proper a few years ago.. people still call me to design zone systems.. they are not as hard as people think.. I do retro in variable speed blower drives that surely help with noise and airflow issues, esp if zones vary greatly in size.. I really Like RCS Zone panels...
eldoradoboy 1 year ago
@eldoradoboy every try the harmony 3 with the air speed settings on it? you can set your cfm for each individual zone. Makes it alot easier even if the system was designed wrong.
californiaisgarbage 1 year ago
@californiaisgarbage really? that sounds like what i need,i got a job line up which is a huge 3 story house and the homeowner wants every half a floor to be his own zone since every floor is so big so altogether i'll have 6 zones... i'm wondering if residential hvac has the technology to handle that one without any bypass damper
KingRhaul 1 year ago
@KingRhaul depending on your total cfm and btu you may be able to use one system. or maybe have two small systems. A lennox variable speed A/H or furnace is what the harmony 3 is used with. You can only have 4 zones on this board. so you would need another unit with 2 zones to get the 6 you need. sounds like your chopping the building into a bunch of zones. may be better off with a couple mini splits and eliminating all the ductwork
californiaisgarbage 1 year ago
@californiaisgarbage the unit will be a 5 ton,100k btu,i really dont wanna use lennox neither the homeowner,i'm thinking trane.I know i'll need more than one board, the one thing i wanna find a good solution for is what'll happen when only one zone is calling? for some reason he wants to make 6 zones out of this place,the best idea i got is a 3 stage unit, up to 2 zones per stage and a lil' bypass damper for when one zone is calling.wondering is there's technology out there for a better way
KingRhaul 1 year ago
@KingRhaul cant post! Anyway the Lennox setup is the only true zone system that i know of. you can zone a house to run at full capacity with all zones. and as little as a small room and everything in between. you can setup your air speed and keep temp settings for each zone. I have put in hundreds of these without need for any bypass b.s I dont know of any other equipment that has that capability. Check your cfm and btu for each stage of your Trane. Lennox is fully adjustable 4 zone
californiaisgarbage 1 year ago
@californiaisgarbage thanks for the info,i've always rated trane above lennox so guess i've been wrong..i still hate messing with lennox and thier propietary crap but their technology is exactly what i'd need...thought i'd find it in a trane...thanks
KingRhaul 1 year ago
@KingRhaul running 100k btu split into 6 zones i dont think is possible. even at half capacity, 50% (if that is possible with the equipment )thats looking for around 1000cfm for the smallest zone to keep from cooking your unit, or icing up in cooling. running that on a small zone, say 3 or 4 registers is going to sound like a jet. so there will be a ton of bypass. Your unit temps will be sky high, or frozen solid depending on heat/cool. im thinking two, 2 1/2 ton sys? or some other combination
californiaisgarbage 1 year ago
@californiaisgarbage i see what you mean, i was think a 3 stage unit which would deliver 40% at first stage, 65% at 2nd and 100% at 3rd stage..so when one zone calls stage one comes on and i'd need the bypass damper,if another zone calls, stage one would still take care of both with no bypass then stage 2 would come in when 3 or 4 zone call and stage 3 when the 5th and 6th zone calls but you just made me realize one thing,even if i manage to balance my cfm's i cant balance mt BTU's properly
KingRhaul 1 year ago
We size our systems for the entire house. The zone system's purpose is to help even out temperature differences between upstairs and downstairs. It also helps single system homes with extreme afternoon sun exposure problems. I adjust my start-ups to keep the bypass damper closed when all zones of the system are calling for cooling.
Energy savings are great but the number one concern I hear from customers is the level of comfort in every area of the home.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
I don't do anything different. static damper I set is closed for whole house calling. i calculate gain/loss like I would on any other house. When I balance air flow for zones that is when I set static damper so correct flow is sufficient for unit operation when smaller zone is still calling. Noise level is also consideration. Never downsize unit for zoned house. Thats is as you said," It also helps single system homes with extreme afternoon sun exposure problems."
fhtn020273 2 years ago
i also tie my relief exhaust aways down stream of my longest return, it gives a chance for air to mix.
All my zone systems have worked quiet well. Customers like them and I leave an as built schematic in the zone control cabinet.
fhtn020273 2 years ago
As a tech, I'd kill kittens to have an actual as-built zone system shematic/blueprint on every site. Now there's a video waiting to be made: Walk-thru of a proper zone system install with commentary by an expert. You sound like the right man for the job.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
@fhtn020273 It seems very rare to actually have a "As Built" schematic. I have never seen one outside of commercial work. I like that you perform this task.
BGreenHVAC 1 year ago
Zone systems. Also know to us commercial HVAC design engineers as VVT systems. They are fine for some applications, but I rarely recommend them. They are very finnicky and often lead to more problems than benefits. Residential, they work okay, but I prefer the nicer systems with variable speed blowers and multi-stage condensers, and electronically operated bypass dampers.
eggman9713 2 years ago
The systems I work on are not truly 'variable volume'. They are very low tech and economical (read: cheap). Most homeowners want the best technology and performance but are rarely motivated to scribble out a check with an extra digit to the left of the decimal point. Chicks (aka, The Cheapest Creatures on the Face of This Earth) are especially reluctant to dip into their shopping spree funds and shoe allowances to pay for a top-notch HVAC system.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
lol ''how did that get up there to put that thing up jeez'' just funny how you said it randomly
srtwq09 2 years ago
I guess some portions of my video commentary qualify as "thinking out loud". As an installer, I really wonder what the guy was thinking as he was installing the system that I was troubleshooting.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
It's nice to be appreciated. Thanks. My style has a few burrs along the edges. The real world isn't always smooth and polished. I show it like it is.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
you are a true pro, your vids are great and very detailed keepem coming
tazzjr74 2 years ago
man i bet those hacks are keeping you busy way to rake in the overtime
tazzjr74 2 years ago
The economy has weeded out a lot of bad apples. The installs are getting better and the start-ups are more thorough. Fewer and fewer of these mistakes are trickling down to me.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
Thanks for the kind words, bro. Your channel is the first I've seen one of my videos marked as a 'favorite'. Yeah, I check those things. My ego is much healtier because of it. Thank you.
As you've likely noticed, my videos are geared more toward the installers. Installation and service are inexctricably linked. Words and music. They go together.
I don't recommend that others aspire to be like me because my goal is to be as smart a guys like Dr. Z and Mikie2501.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
I enjoy your videos and I am gaining copias amounts of knowledge. Maybe someday I will grow up and be an HVAC repair dude of your caliber.
Keep the videos and the information coming.
starflite3 2 years ago
The original complaint was 'a funky odor coming from the ductwork'. I suspect the fully open bypass duct was pulling condensation off the loops of the evap coil and letting it fall onto the ductboard plenum. Wet fiberglass can emit a 'funky odor'.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
Dude what a HACK. What was the original call?
leshoffman1 2 years ago
Did your company do the install and start up. who hung that zone board manute bol.
lvnick666 2 years ago
Yes... yes... and... Derek Boogaard.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
Is it just me or does that bypass damper have a massive counter weight. Most of the ones I see have a pretty small weight.(maybe one third the size of that one). Great videos!! Keep them coming.
bradbbac 2 years ago
Those counterweights are smaller than the ones I normally see. The rod is shorter, too. It's a leverage thing, I guess.
PutSome5tankOnIt 2 years ago
Awesome awareness video, you residential guys take notes class is in session.
Refrigeratetheworld 2 years ago