Under Cover by John Bevere

[TheAlan39]

Being of a cooperative nature and being submissive is a good thing in a lot settings. But there is a kind of mindless submission which some in positions of authority in the church (look at all the cults) expect from the people which I find quite repulsive and sickening, and in my view, should be, dare I say it, rebelled against.

[TheAlan39]

(cont) contentious, difficult or rebellious, but purely in the interests of my own personal growth and freedom to think critically and be objective about what is being taught to me from the pulpit every sunday. Not thinking I am better than my pastor or accusing him of being a false teacher or anything like that because of erring in his teaching and conduct from time to time. But simply knowing that he is a man just like me who can get it wrong every now and then

[TheAlan39]

To be fair, Bevere is probably trying to address an important issue in a way that he believes is right and scriptural. But his solution is, I believe, incomplete and paves a way for certain individuals to use what he has written to justify unhealthy and oppressive, thought stifling, growth inhibiting and truth impeding power structures within the body of christ. I certainly wouldn't attend a church that adhered to Bevere's teaching on this area. Not because of any innate desire to be..(cont)

[TheAlan39]

(cont)would consider unauthorised to do this. Most of the old testament prophets were severely opposed by those sitting in established positions of authority of their time but spoke out regardless.We all know about the many people throughout church history who challenged the status quo bringing about beneficial changes in the process. It sounds like Bevere is bordering on advocating a form of totalitarianism, that if taken on board on a wide scale, stands to greatly impede the progress of truth.

[TheAlan39]

I agree that we should in a general sense be cooperative with those in leadership in order to make their job easier. But there must be some room to think critically about the practices of our pastors, bosses and parents or no progress would ever have been made. All progress is due to current practices and traditions being challenged and changes being made as a new and better ways of doing things are introduced. God has used many people throughout biblical and church history that Bevere (cont)...

[pastorquack]

There are a lot of people today who walk by feeling rather than faith. Then natural man does not like to be "Told" that he "has to submit". Of course because that goes right in the face of EGO and Pride. Submission to Authority is not a dirty word, nor is it a bad thing.

Then there are those who point out that "Many have abused their postions of Authority." Their failure will be held accountable by God. You and I will also be held accountable, for how we submitted.

[tjthaxter]

Lots of opinions about things on here. Your pastor and teachers in church are in positions of authority! Is a shepherd not leader of the flock? Or every sheep for himself? James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. I wonder why they will be judged more strictly if they are equals with everyone else? should we all not be judged the same then? Read the rest of it what it talks about.

[worrierofgod4ever]

Be VERY careful of this teaching......It distroyed our lives.....Watch my video: watch?v=X K9PiWwS9sE... (remove the spaces in the link and copy it to the end of youtube to watch it)

[darklight1963]

Classic case of the "touch not the lord's anointed"...the bluprint for turning the church into a cult, a house of slaves to the pastor. Firstly who gave these leader's the authority in the first place? Their "invisible" friend?? I used to teach this crap when I was ensnared in a No-fundamentalist church. Now that I am out of the whole thing I can see it for what it is...a cult!

[maskiavelli]

God is Love. God is patient, God is kind. He does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. He is not rude, He is not self-seeking, He is not easily angered, He keeps no record of wrongs. He does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. He always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres YOU. The God that dwells in you, Trust you, Hopes for you. But where taught not to believe in ourselves that is purely Heart breaking for the Father, He created you to be who you are.

[maskiavelli]

to be honest most of us don't trust in God, think about that. we have taken all authority away from him and placed it in leadership. to some God is the abusive husband, controlling our lives telling us when to speak when not too, allowing us to have certain friends and to cut off those that don't believe in what you believe. to some He is the abusive Father ready to put you over His knee the moment we disobey Him. non of these are the character of God Jesus came in the reflection of the Father.

[maskiavelli]

if you do not have the Love of Christ then the answer will be Church Covering same with Hierarchical Leadership. Love does not take on possession, it does not rule over you we are no longer Slaves but He calls us friends. the sad part of this teaching is the lack of trust in God the lack of trust in our selves. Do we believe that our hearts are the most wicked and deceiving thing in our body ? what does that say about God who lives in dwells with in your heart ?

[TheAlan39]

...blessing of the churches it emerged from. Basically it was a breakaway movement that had to beakaway because it was deemed to be not of God by those in authority at the time. Wouldn't hurt John Bevere and his followers to study a bit of church history.

[TheAlan39]

What John bevere fails to realize is that he wouldn't be able to do much of what he is doing now were it not for those who went ahead and did what they felt they were called to do in spite of being severely resisted by the church authorities of their time. William Tyndale was burnt at the stake for translating the bible into the language of the common man. Even the word of faith/charismatic movement that Bevere seems to be aligned with met with much resistance, certainly didn't receive the...

[TheAlan39]

"What if authority tells me to do the opposite of what I was shown to do in prayer?" Yes, Martin Luther what do you do? Yes, the hundreds of people who were burnt at the stake for refusing to believe what the authorities of the catholic church demanded they believe at the time, what do we do? We'd all be so much better off if these naughty boys and girls had just mindlessly submitted to their superiors as John Bevere suggests.

[maskiavelli]

1 Pet. 2:13-14. in none of these passages is Peter referring to Church leaders but to government. Church Leaders are those that demonstrate Christ likeness, but have no authority over another believer. They can persuade us because of their experience in Lord like advice but that's it. Jesus is the head of the Body of Believers, Paul gives us a demonstration of it in Corinthians when He talks about different body parts the Head rules over the body no other believer is great then the next

[sbryan060]

Brother, in love I'll ask you this question - who was Jesus talking to? Context is so important to understanding the whole of scripture. So many unbelievers use scripture out of context to confuse you and to make it look like there are contradictions in scripture. Jesus was clearly speaking to his disciples! Jesus was their teacher just as we have teachers but ALL are subject to Christ's headship but that does not mean that we have no authority as he placed some above us in that respect.

[nettieheartful]

Hes word of faith!

[secondbible]

forgot to mention : that book is a zombie-kit

[secondbible]

market tricks : get the clients back to business

[graceArise]

I read Under Cover and I have come to the conclusion that this whole teaching is a lie. Christ is our covering, He is our life, He is the head of the Body. This false doctrine about the need to be under a covering is a manipulative way of controlling people and stopping them from fulfilling their God given potential. I'm saddened that many people will feel guilty and condemned by this kind of teaching.

It is for freedom that Christ set us free!

[sbryan060]

@graceArise scripture is very clear that we are to be subject to ALL authorities because HE has placed them there. 1 Pet. 2:13-14. At this time when this was written Nero (known for his hatred of Christians) and yet the Word says that we should submit and "honor the emporer". That does not mean that we should submit to sin nor to the teachings that would have us sin (remember the book of Daniel) but we are to submit in every other case. Freedom in Christ does not mean free from scripture.

[graceArise]

@sbryan060 Yes, scripture tells us to submit to authority. But a pastor is not a position of authority - it is a function. The greatest amongst us is a servant. We are called to serve one another and submit one to another. There is no hierarchy in the body of Christ - the hierarchy is a lie that comes from Babylon. John tells us in 1 John "you have no need of a teacher because you have the Holy one within you who teaches you all things". Read maskiavelli's four statements below for more..

[freddie171]

@graceArise Hi could you please go through John beveres under cove teaching and point out exactly what does not line up with scripture.

[maskiavelli]

I just realized that I forgot the verse after Matt20:25 which is Matt:20:26"Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant." sorry about that.

[maskiavelli]

My response is in 4 parts and it and it starts with the later and goes up ward that funny lol but I think the point is clear that there is no other authority other than Christ.

[sbryan060]

@maskiavelli Right, and Christ (the Word of God) tells us that we are to submit to all authorities. 1 Pet. 2:13-14.

[maskiavelli]

Jesus teachings are testament to this. Matt 20:25 "But Jesus called them to [Himself] and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them." and Matt 23:8-10 "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, [fn] and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

[maskiavelli]

The word Hypakouo is like a command so we have to. Psalm 146:3 "Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation." so we do not put our faith in Man but the Lord only. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Test all things; hold fast what is good." and we are to test all things, Teachings, Prophecies EVERY THING. there is nothing in the new testament that teach a man is above another man.

[maskiavelli]

like Heb13:17 "Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. " so that word Obey is Peitho. Peitho and Peitharcheo are completely subjective meaning we don't have to if the advice goes against what God wants.

[maskiavelli]

I wonder if anyone ever looked up the word obey in the concordance ? the first Obey word in the Greek is "Hypakouo" which means means to to obedient. the second word is "Peitharcheo" which means to take advice. and the third it was "Peitho" which means to Convince or be Persuaded. every time "Peitharcheo", "Peitho" where used it was in response to leadership.

[dcosmos2000]

Give him enough time and he will "hang" himself like most of the self proclaimed preachers. If preachers and books could change the world it would have been done already. The road is lonely, difficult and few make it. God cannot be found in a feel good  marketing seminar. Keep striving with humility and FOLLOW NO MAN. THE KEY IS WITHIN.

[DYOUNG36]

I am not surprised that Bevere's teaching on authority has received endorsements from the likes of Bishop Eddie Long and Ted Haggard.Doubtless Long would not want his congregants questioning his extravagant lifestyle and neither would Haggard feel comfortable about his parishioners looking too closely into his sexual conduct!!Any preacher who says he/she is above scrutiny is wrong and is in danger of becoming a cult like leader.

[nathan7727]

We are a nation and generation that does not want to be accountable to anyone for anything, so we push back against this type of teaching.

This attitude is why we are so indebted, why we have so much bankruptcy, why people are so financially destroyed.

We don't want to be accountable or to submit to authority. We want to be in charge, in control, in the driver's seat. It's why so many people are so disrespectful to their employers, the folks in stores.

We want to be God, not submit.

[nathan7727]

(continued)

You can't say that this changed going into the New Testament either. Hebrews 13:17 says to obey them that have rule over you, and submit yourselves; "for they watch for your souls, as those that must give account...".

[nathan7727]

It is important to know the Scripture before you proclaim things as truth from God. 1 Cor. 12:28 states that God has set in the church first apostles, then prophets, then teachers. This is why some churches still call their 'pastors' by the title 'apostle'.

Rebellion against God's appointed authority in Num. 16 caused Korah's whole family to suffer. In Numbers 12 Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses and God struck Miriam with leprosy.

[FaithandReasons]

Been there, done that! It's heresy.

It's a sin to have a MAN as your covering: "Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; & that COVER WITH A COVERING, BUT NOT OF MY SPIRIT, that they may add sin to sin:" (Isaiah 30:1)

God was king David's covering: "I will abide in thy tabernacle for ever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah." (Psalm 61:4)

God was Ruth's covering (Ruth 2:12)

I hope God is your spiritual covering too!

[FaithandReasons]

Wretched heresy.

Christ has ALL authority in heaven & on earth, & His authority resides in ALL born again Believers thru the Holy Spirit.

People with titles, that claim to be leaders do not have more authority than other Believers. Nor are they the "head" of the Body of Christ. Christ is the ONLY Head of the Church, & we are under HIS feet...not the feet of preachers. The men in this promo are deceived heretics trying to control undiscerning ppl who don't know their Bibles well.

[NephilimFree]

Amen sister. This sickens me. I think og the money changers on the temple steps.

[FaithandReasons]

Amen Nephilim!~

[thrufaithalone]

Thanks for sharing this - how sad these men don't realize Christ is their covering...

[FaithandReasons]

Yes indeed~!

[amiax]

Dear sister, please take this response with a prayerful attitude and consider:

You are misinterpreting the Bible. Christ is indeed the ultimate Head that we must answer to, but as long as our pastors and preachers are right with God and arent leading us astray, we must submit to them, as the Bible says also. :)

[FaithandReasons]

Please don't call me sister. You are a stranger.

I didn't misinterpret the Bible. The people who are preaching in this video are twisting the Scriptures to their own destruction & adding to the word because they are authoritarian leaders.

The Bible says that ALL Believers should submit to one another out of love & humility (MUTUAL-CONDITIONAL-VOLUNTARY SUBMISSION). Jesus nor the apostles spent time at meetings preaching "submit to me!" That is called "lording it over" or "power-posturing."

[tarantulanipple]

Good point

[FaithandReasons]

The man w/the grey jacket at the beginning of the promo is doing what is called "suppressing criticism" by implying that it is wrong to voice concerns about leadership. All authoritarian leaders do that. If you have never studied cults, spiritual abuse, & authoritarian abuse, & if you're influenced by authoritarian leaders then you will not pick up on it because you have been indoctrinated into it. All Believers submit to one another based on love, not based on sermons about leadership.

[FaithandReasons]

The man with the dark grey jacket at the end of this promo was not preaching Christ & Him crucified (like the apostles did), his entire sermon revolved around not voicing concerns about leadership (an unbiblical concept which helps leaders avoid accountability to the Word & Believers around them). He preached a man-centered sermon under the guise of "submit to authority." Shame on him. He is leading ppl astray. No Christian in their right mind should submit to him. He is a self-centered liar.

[FaithandReasons]

I saw promise-keepers in this promo. If promise-keepers is learning about "submission & authority" from Bevere, that explains alot, because they're being watched by both Christian & nonChristian cult-watch organizations for authoritarian behavior.

[amiax]

Ok. Thank you. I wont call you sister as you wish, even though we worship and revere the same God and we hold the same beliefs about this God.

Submitting to authority can both be harmful and helpful. Thank you for your perspective on this.

-Amia

[notofthisworld22]

great book.recommended. it just goes deep within

[RobbThompson]

Great Word! The intake of Bible doctrine is the most important thing in a Believer's life.

[fiftyninecase]

Yes lets all bow down to the "mini-popes!" That's what word of faith pastors are! Ted Haggard has a lot to say! He's worried about his church members submitting to him!? When he was having a homosexual affair!? Oh puh-leeze!