America..the Greatest Country ever given to Man by God.can you imagine the hellhole this world would be without America shedding her blood in the name of Freedom.Europe is free because of America..The Soviet Union broken apart because of America.She is and always will be| the last best hope for freedom around the world
@chrycohauler Our best moments are when we help others realize their dreams. The Marshall Plan made the sacrifice of WW II meaningful by creating the conditions requisite for peace and prosperity. We need a similar stroke of genius to counter the influence of China in the Developing World.
where is the first photo from? that looks like arizona, utah, or something. i'd like to drive that road sometime, so if you could let me know, i'd appreciate it.
My country hasn't been doing anything to me...other than giving me the freedom to live as I choose and the ability and inclination to make things better.
It never is the country it used to be...because it never used to be what any nostalgic view pretended it was. When I was a boy, African Americans were getting murdered for trying to vote. Now an African American is about to be elected president. That is what this middle-aged white man calls progress.
When we the People take this country back from the scum that has looted and indebted it and decived the evryday average american and we start acting like the Nation we were mean't to be then sing this song. And it is a disgrace to have JFK on this sickening video. He was a great man who gave his live for this country and what are we doing about it!
We, the People never really lost this country. I don't believe in a Red America. I don't believe in a Blue America either. I believe in a Red, White, and Blue America. JFK had his moments, but--like this country--he was very imperfect as well. This video isn't about loving everything this administration or any other does in the name of America. It is simply about loving America and I do--without reservation.
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free so we can deport them back to their countries of origin or torture whichever amuses us the most.
well since ALL Americans (including Native Americans) either are immigrants or are descended from them, I guess we'll all have to go...who's gonna turn off the light?
Lets not forget those who would have discovered the country from the other side of the world eventually anyway. Chinese. or Japanese? Its OK, I like sushi as well as fried rice.
I believe that's correct. If we go by seniority, however, then those who would want to deport them (the ones we haven't already killed by genocide) would have to leave first, thereby leaving no one available to deport the native americans.
Well, I guess Buchanan, Tancredo, and Dobbs are the only real Americans left now that John Wayne and Ronald Reagan are dead...so I guess they'll be the ones to turn out the light.
Depends if you go by the first in first out rule or not. I have no doubt it would be used. Which would leave the Iraqi immigrants to turn out the lights.
I vote for the US as well, but do not share your pessimisim, in particular with Africa. The US has recently establised an Africa command militarily. A Marshall plan is not needed for Africa because of the emmense problem of corruption. The war in Iraq has been won by the troops, and a future exists in Iraq. For both the US and the Iraqi people.
I am only pessimistic for Africa if we follow the policy you suggest. Corruption is not as big a problem as you and others believe. To the extent it exists at all, it is due to US Cold War and European colonialist policies.
We cannot control Africa or Iraq militarily. We can only convince the people of those places that a free and independent future aligned with the West is in their interest.
I think the majority of people in Iraq believe thier best interests are with the US and relations with the west. Malaki recently stated; The US does not understand the fear Shias feel from the Sunnis, even when there is no longer a need. The best way to have reconciliation is to replace ministers with technocrates and provide equal services to all. Making reconciliation a process and not an immediate goal.
It seems to me that Maliki and his bunch are joined at the hip with Iran and are just humoring us while our guns are in his country. Unclear what average Iraqis think, other than that they are tired of the blood and mayhem that they probably associate, and not unreasonably, with the war we started. I am not convinced that there will be anything but an all out fratricidal war between the Shia and their Iranian allies and the Sunni and their Sunni allies including Al Qaeda when we leave.
That possibility exists and I believe Malaki has specifically asked for troops to remain for just that eventuality. That dosen't mean it won't happen. but with the US overlooking many of the military operations of the Iraqis, hopefully it won't.
Maliki and his cohort and their Iranian backers are just waiting for us to pull out...and sharpening their swords and daggers. No matter how long we stay, no matter how many of our people come back in body bags, without their limbs, without their right minds, this won't change. It's discouraging.
Its a forgone conclusion in your mind. If I thought like that I'd be discouraged also. Most americans could give a s*** about military deaths other than how it may get thier political party elected. Same with the MSM. (How many papers will it sell). Once the fighting is over and Iraq becomes back page news, Americans will never hear about the "wounded" and thier plight until the next war.
I never stop thinking about them...not for the past 32 years have I stopped. The last names on the Wall are from an operation my ship was involved in. They include three boys murdered by the Khmer Rouge because Kissinger couldn't miss his last opportunity to play general. He was just a continuation of McNamara...and they are best buddies. They are still convinced they knew better then the JCS. Read Dereliction of Duty by HR McMasters and say after me S-H-I-N-S-E-K-I.
Then you know what I'm talking about. You would be in the minority of americans who lost friends or family during times of conflict. I was stationed in Vietnam and fellow airman as well as marines died where I was. Fortunately none were friends or relatives. The biggest mistake in Iraq was the underestimateing of the insurgency, as well as the Sunni backlash. It also became a cause for Al Queda. Your argument has merit.
I'm not convinced we ever should have gone in. We should have continued containment in Iraq, gone whole hog in Afghanistan and Darfur with wide support around the world...and given China notice as to where the world's future lay.
I was against going in, but we did. Every politician who voted to send the troops to war should be allowed to finish office and never be allowed to run for public office again. It would make all politicians think twice before sending troops to fight a war when the dipshits immediately turned thier backs on them for political purposes.
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. We helped China stalemate the Japanese during WWII. There is no reason China and the US cannot be on friendly terms. With neighbors such as Russia, India, Pakistan. and several others, the US only needs to bide its time before an arrogant new China gets in a fight with its neighbors.
If you mean should we engage China...yes. We just need to work to encourage our value system all over the world. Darfur and Africa are the place to start. If eventually we have to pass the baton as Britain did to us, hopefully it will be to a China that has learned to respect human rights. But we must stand tall now.
Darfur is a human disaster brought about by primative societies. It would seem as long as it is Africans killing Africans who cares. Yet the humanitarian crisis looms in its wake. The UN is better able to handle this type of situation. The US can help by providing humanitarian assistance as well as military(Aircraft to fly supplies and rotate peacekeepers). The last thing we need with Afganistan and Iraq, is US military intervention.
Darfur is a human disaster created by cynical & brutal Sudanese leaders with the connivance of their Chinese patrons while the world stood and watched. Unfortunately, we were bogged down in Iraq. That is one critical part of that mistake.
A couple of AC130 gunships and some satelite intel might help defuse the issue also. Flying in from Chad, it would be denyable. Nah, the NYTs would get hold of it and we would be invading the Sudan on the front page. China, Iran and Hugo Chavez would be decrying US imperialistic behavior. The world would angrely denounce US aggression, and the Sudanese gov would demand 4 billion in reparations.
We must establish a strong alliance between NATO & the AU, have the AU put most of the boots on the ground with NATO special forces, logistics, & air. The Sudanese have forfeited whatever claim they may have had to sovereignty over Darfur by their brutal behavior.
Much of NATO has thier spec ops people in Afganistan and the rest don't want to be bothered. The AU forces are being trained by US spec ops people in thier home countries and flown back and forth by the US. The Sudan is a souvergn country and as much as possible we need to work with thier government to allow peacekeepers and aide to legitimately flow. But I understand the Sudanese government is tied up with jailing teachers who name thier teddybears Mohammed.
If we worked to get the NATO and the AU on the same page and if we had a Marshall Plan for Africa, there is no way any European or African nation would stand in the way of peace, justice, and freedom for the people of Darfur...and for the govts of China, Venezuela, and Sudan if they objected. It is a matter of will. If the US stands up and says so, others will follow.
We are where we are & have to make the best of it. I hope we can learn from our mistakes. Joseph, Gary, and Danny weren't personal friends, but I guess I took their deaths personal. We can't afford to lose any more good people because of arrogant bureaucrats like McNamara, Kissinger, and Rumsfeld.
Well said, but how do you get a politician with integrety and brains elected? It seems like the job goes to the person with the lowest common denominator.
Every generation has them. Who are our Trumans, Marshalls, Harrimans, Kennans, Achesons, Vandenbergs, and Hoffmans?
On the GOP side, there's Powell and McCain. I also like Huckabee and Brownback. Biden and Obama are appealing on the Dem side...and...don't kill me...I've read Hillary's bio and there is more to her than the media usually tells us. In any event, deal with it cause I am convinced she'll be our next president.
I don't like politicians in general. I find most to be like britteny Spears in Hollywood. No brains just a following. But for some reason I keep on voting. I don't like any in the pack and wish we had 15 different partys to choose from and a coalition formed to rule. And truman in history is a prize while in office was the lowest rated up to that time. Maybe the same with Bush, if he gets what he started. Truely a coup.
Bush is no Truman. Much of the reason Harry was low rated was his stance on civil rights incurred animosity of many whites. He also inherited natural postwar slowdown & the fall of China & Russians getting the Bomb happened on his watch. He could have done little to change these things. He also fired General Pompous Ass who everyone loved.
LOL, General Pompous Ass. (I gotta remember that one). Don't forget the Korean war and the riots among Chinese and North Korean prisoners and thier claims of prisoner abuse. Claims that the US was using chemical weapons as well.(not true). World opinion came down hard on Truman. Until the war was over and the world got a glimpse of what the other side did.
Don't think US public opinion would have been much concerned with any claims of POW abuse. Never heard anything about chemical weapons. If it happened, it couldn't have had much effect on US public opinion. Just read about SK Reconcialiation Commission and mass murders carried out by SK and sometimes by UN troops.
Again, I understand that people need to know events that took place, but it must be put into context. Is that important? Yes, it is. In Vietnam where 36,000 known assasinations and cold blooded murders done by the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong, the only thing anyone in the world remembers is My lie, One of two known atrocities committed by US troops. Its time to lay major responsibility for crimes where the majority of the crimes occur.
When the UN was finally given a list of UN personnel listed as POWs in North Korea, they were shocked that the list appeared about 50,000 people less than the UN expected. So if the "World needs to know about "No Gun Ri", which is disputed, or other shameful acts of the boogyman west, I'm not overwelmingly interested in whipping my backside with chains so I can repent.
During the year before this september 26,540 innocent Iraqi people died a violent death, 536 were attributed to Coalition forces. The year prior to that 14,910 innocent Iraqis died Violent deaths, 370 attributed to coalition forces. But what does anyone in the US know about? Right, Abu Graebe. (No one died). Source: Iraq the Body Count, IBC, used by AP, UPI, NYTs.
I agree the insurgents are worse but we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back because we aren't as bad as they are. We just plain shouldn't torture...and, Mitt, I don't care what some generals who have never been in enemy hands as Senator McCain has tell you, we shouldn't torture and we shouldn't equivocate about whether we will torture.
Great!!! Now if I could just sell you on the Marshall Plan and the Darfuri Protectorate ideas, we'd have a ballgame!!! Why don't you get a copy of Greg Behrman's The Most Noble Adventure and let me know what you think after you've read it.
I'm a big fan of W.E.B. Griffin, also enjoyed James Clavel (Taipan, King Rat, Shogun) "East of Chosen" I would recommend. It really tells the story of what happened east of the Chosen resevoiur. Recently read "The coldest war". Not a best seller, one persons account of his one year in Korea. Got much info on the prisoner abuse scandle from this book. Believe the author was James Brady. Written 20 years ago.
Actually, I understand the number to be about 100,000...and the massacre at Hue by NLF and NVA was about 10X as many as at My Lai. Plus their guys all got medals while some of ours got Courts Martial.
And yes, during the Korean war the world public got major news coverage of treatment of UN POWs in South Korea. There were several fights among the POWs (with some deaths) as well as guards intervening. It was trumped up by the Chinese and NKs and was major news from the "front". Look it up.
I don't know how to answer this. It was major news and formed public opinion against the UN forces in Korea during the stalemate at Panmunjun. (The stalemate lasted almost two years). You should read about the korean war and the political as well as military history.
I have read a number of things on the Korean War. A lot of folks were bummed by the stalemate and by the firing of Pompous Ass, but I never read anything about the public being bent out of shape by prisoner abuses.
The prisoners were held on Cheju do, at a place called Koji Do. The camp commander was taken hostage by the POWs at one point, several incidents of POWs not wanting to be repatreated vs those wanting to return. South Koreans in the North Korean army vs other North Koreans.etc.etc. The Chinese infiltrated the camps and caused several of the riots. I would be surprized if your uncle didn't remember it.
He came in at war's end, but he'd probably know of it. I do recall now some sense of scandal---not about prisoner abuse---about having to send back Chinese and North Koreans who didn't want to go back under Communist rule. That I can believe was unpopular given the mood of the times.
I think that all of those I mentioned have it in them to be real leaders. Romney, on the other hand, seems to be the biggest snake in the grass out there. I think his middle name is pander.
If I had to vote today, it would be a toss up between Thompson and Guiliani. Neither is 100% up to the task, but may learn while in office to be as smart as you and I are. The others scare me.
Well, there may be something in them I haven't considered. Never been a big fan of Lazy Fred's and what I saw of Rudy prior to 9/11 scares me. He'd be spending half his time in shouting matches with Sharpton...and he's a Yankee fan...a for real one!!!!
I agree on both of your assessments. I voted for McCain the first time around when he was in the primaries. A little off the wall, but thats better than alot off the wall. Sorry, just don't trust Hillery.
Uh, she doesn't meet my eye either. Sorry. I'm not gay, (no offense to those inclined) but Bill would have been better looking.( sorry about that comment)
If we do not, along with our European allies, intervene decisively in Darfur and create a Marshall Plan for Africa, this planet will be dominated by authoritarian China in 50 years. There is hope for the future, but only if we act now.
Why would we want to intervene at all if thier problems were due to us to begin with. Shouldn't we leave well enough alone? Let China be the ones to get the blame for Africas failures.
Although it isn't clear, you seem to be saying that America played no role in Africa's current problems. This is totally untrue.
Let's forget for a moment about the past history of American involvement in the slave trade---a history that was long, deep, shameful, and important to the growth of our economy during our early history.
Beyond that, you need to study the history of the Cold War. The Cold War turned hot in Africa far more than iy did anywhere else. As many as 10 million Africans died in 16 wars involving the interests of one or both of the great powers. And that doesn't even include wars in Africa since the fall of the USSR, many of which stem from the Cold War conflicts and use US, Russian, and Chinese provided arms.
So we should stay out. Let Russia and China fuel the next civil wars in Africa. I believe much of Africa is awash with AK47s, RPGs, etc. Not M-16s and TOW missles. But by your account Russia and China are not liable for any of the problems in Africa. Nor is Islam. Its the Western Boogyman.
We've never stayed out. Wanna know who the biggest arms supplier in the world is? Hint:it ain't those other two guys. I'm not saying they're not liable, I'm saying they don't care and we should because a peaceful, free, and stable Africa is in our national interest for many reasons.
Actually I do agree with the US being involved in Africa. Just pulling your chain because I don't buy the western Boogyman theory often taught in universities. It reminds me of Shias cutting thier bodies so they can be repentant. Yes the US is the biggest arms supplier in the world, but the arms are mostly sold to responsible countries. Russia and China will sell to anyone with the cash. Thier is a difference.
Hmmm...yes...Saudi Arabia...our partners in peace...and how many of the 9/11 hijackers DIDN'T come from there? And how many lashes do they still want to administer to a rape VICTIM?!
The largest percentage of foriegn insurgents in Iraq were Saudis as well and Osama got most of his funding from Saudi Arabian supporters. But the Government was not involved in those transactions, same as 9/11. There are diplomatic protests from all over the world about injustice in the case of the rape victim and SA needs to wake up. But they are moving ahead slowly and peacably and better things are expected from them. Would you rather we treat them as adversaries?
Their govt encourages the Wahhabis from whence the terrorists come. They have also done much to encourage Palestinian terrorism and obstructionism. The business in Annapolis is just the latest example. I think we need to have a more realistic attitude toward our "partners" and I think we need to work aggressively to reduce our need of fossil fuels and diminish Saudi influence.
Well first of all you have to get our own congress to do something about energy independence. In the last 40 years they have done "Nothing". I equate wahhabis much the same as Baptists. Altho wahhabis bread a more violent following in dirt poor countries, it gives the poor a path to justice they never had before. Especially in areas that are completely corrupt.
Also, both sides used aid as bribes. Neither side cared much if aid built palaces, bought guns to oppress the people, and lined Swiss bank accounts. All that mattered was: Is the SOB a reliable ally. We have, thankfully, changed our aid policy since the Cold War. China has not. Also, see the 6 pt series I posted "US Cold War Crime" (something like that). The US and Belgium conspired to murder Lumumba, one of Africa's most promising leaders, and replaced him with Mobutu, probably the worst.
Sorry, I'm not a subscriber to the west is to blame for all the evil in the world. Sometimes its personal responsibility. At least its what I learned when I was growing up. As far as aide, it still gets lost if its not watched closely by the world bank or other outside institution. But thats not thier problem, its the fault of the west that they can't seem to take care of themselves.
Facts are hard to ignore. If you believe in personal responsibility, then why shouldn't the US own its actions--exactly as I've described? I'm not saying that Africa shouldn't be accountable. I'm saying we & the Europeans played a major role in making it as it is. And I'm saying we not only share a moral responsibility, we have a strong self-interest in making it better. BTW, there was a LOT more accountability built into Marshall aid and recent US Africa aid than in Cold War programs.
How many billions in bad debt has been cancelled in Africa. The moral responsibility rests with Africans not outside countries. Again, the debt has been paid, the cold war is over, the European colonists have gone, and many governments in Africa still can't seem to get it right. Yes, Africa must be held accountable or its more of the same.
The bulk of those billions went to line the pockets of thugs like Mobutu who we placed in power, not caring what they did to their own people. Many of those countries are starting to get it right, but the US isn't doing enough to support them--including ending many farm subsidies that make it impossible for Africans to compete in the global economy. We are a long way from paying that debt.
"Many of the countries are starting to get it right". And under whose guidence did that happen? China? Russia? Some of these coutries governments should just be shut down by the world community and bids sent out for foriegn companies to run thier affairs. Bektel as well as several dozen other companies are large enough to do so under contract, with renewal based on job performance.
They are starting to get it right, sometimes because of, sometimes in spite of Western help. For example, we have huge subsidies for our farmers, but we tell them to stop subsidizing theirs...and their farmers can't compete. Just read today how Malawi ignored us & its farmers are feeding the whole region. And, yes, Chinese aid hasn't been helpful. They'd love to have authoritarian govts in Africa as in Burma. That's why we need to step up.
We're doing OK. It isn't the marshall plan, but as progressive countries in Africa move forward they help themselves as well as have more help available. A return to the something for nothing is a losing proposition.
What we are doing is inadequate. We need to work with countries willing to to govern well and build functioning modern economies with at least adequate healthcare, education, and transportation. We must help them develop a niche for their economies to compete globally. Read more about the Marshall Plan. It wasn't something for nothing. Everything had to be accounted for & US businesses benefitted as Europeans could pay for US goods.
Well lead functioning countries have many resources available and there is help available. There are many countries in Africa that are under tribal rule and will not progress until the primitive behavior of the ministers changes. China fits well into these countries and can have the ill will gained when the countries fail again and again. The US may need to adjust policy as time goes by, but we are on the right track.
Disagree. We need to set up countries that are progressing politically as models and do all we can to help them develop. And we need to encourage the others on the path to real development. That is how the battle for world hegemony will go in this century with China...at least until the Chinese military is comparable in strength to ours.
No. The US does not need to set up countries that are political models. The US needs to support countries that have set themselves up as politically viable and to provide assistance when asked for, if appropriate. China will burn thier fingers the hard way as they evolve by supporting corrupt regimes that will fall into civil war. The US does not need to repeat the process.
We must make it clear that democracy and progress are the way of the future in Africa or they will become a thing of the past. If we do not step in and insure democracy's future in Africa and elsewhere, the Chinese will fill the void...and the bleak future mentioned in my essay by 2050 will be all too real for our children and grandchildren.
We must insure those countries in Africa that are progressive and democratic are helped to suceed as role models for other nations and peoples in Africa. It will become clear rapidly whose style of government is the right path to follow by other Africans. Otherwise we go back to being neocolonists and the cycle perpetuates itself.
That's kind of the idea behind my Marshall Plan. We had spent plenty on aid before the Marshall Plan began and it all seemed to be going down the toilet. We need a plan to lift those nations out of extreme poverty and into the global economy. And this time, the Plan would also be supported by the nations of the EU and a whole passel of multinationals. foundations, and NGOs that didn't exist in 1947.
I think it is...we need to look at helping them in creating the building blocks...the way it was done back then, all the European nations got together and came up with what they needed. Then local people, perhaps with govt help, would buy a tractor or steel or whatever from the US...instead of the money going to the US it would go to build the country's infrastructure.
Yes progressive solutions and help for enterprising companies and individuals is a super idea. Massive aide to ministries are an appointment with failure. I think we need to agree to disagree.
Perhaps we do...but consider, we wasted a lot of money propping up dictators in the past...why not spend enough in targeted aid...renewed every year as it was with the Marshall Plan and strictly accountable? The system worked so well then that there was almost NO fraud in a program that amounted to more than 2% GNP (as opposed to about .1% GNP for our current aid budget.
This is not then. The solutions of the past that worked in Europe will not work in Africa. It is an entirely different continent with an entirely different social makeup. It must be encouraged to grow at the rate it is capable.
Totally disagree. There are responsible govts there now. There may beed to be some adaption for culture, but I see no reason similar solutions cannot work.
BTW, if you look at the last part of my statement as to the candidates for both parties...the Bechtel argument might be useful here. And, although it'd never happen, I'm quite serious about the Arlington public service idea.
I agree it would be improbable that the Bektel argument would happen, but a form of it is not. If shown to work, it would transform Africa. One can only hope.
By the way, Transparency International rates Iraq (the current Iraq under US occupation) as the third most corrupt nation on the planet. Only Burma (whose patron is...wait for it...China) and Somalia (a country where foreign intervention and weapons sales have led to war lord rule) are higher.
LOL, I believe it. But it is something the Iraqis will have to work out among themselves. I'm surprized Afganistan is not up there as well. However, the US did not create the system of corruption, and has done much to persuede the government otherwise.
Undoubtedly there was a culture of corruption that preexisted 2003. War, however, disrupts societies and leads to a black market economy. This is true of Iraq. A car wash can't get water legally, so they illegally tap into a water main. Textbooks are available only on the blackmarket and at three times the price. It's the same with most every govt service. The thing is: we started the war, so we bear responsibility.
Yes as well as the minister of the imterior who has 20,000 on the payroll to build and maintain the water supply but only 1000 people seem to be available to do it. The small stuff is not the issue. Its the ministers and deputy ministers and every other big wig in government getting thier hands in the till.
Given time to get thier government in full operation and corruption should decline. But being an accepted part of society it will always be a problem.
The small stuff is very much the issue to the average Iraqi. If the Nam taught us anything, it should be that we have to convince the average Joe and Jane that we are on their side and that we are going to help them live a decent peaceful existence.
From the military blogs I read every day thats been happening for quite some time. Most Iraqis like the troops and they know we are on thier side. The ongoing "Iraqi salvation groups" are a direct result of that. It didn't just magicly appear. The US was clearly the better choice. Thanks to the troops.
Sadr is the major Iraq/Iranian waiting in the wings and his group has been decimated by special forces hunter killer groups. He is under close watch and I suspect if he makes the wrong moves he will lose many more of his close associates. He knows the danger and must make his own decision as to what direction he will take. As long as Patraeous is in Iraq Sadr will be under his thumb.
Iraqis have a well known distrust and dislike of the Iranians. The eight year war is one , but the Iranians are considered persians and not arabs. And visa versa. The two do not mix. The Iraqis also do not want a theocracy as in Iran. There would be major opposition to Iranian influence. I'm not sure about how Malaki and his government stand. But I think they may be just smart enough to know what the Iraqi people would accept.
Sunnis...not Shia Iraqis. Maliki and his bunch will be closely aligned with Iranians from now on and will likely persecute Sunnis as they did Shia under Saddam.
Its possible, I will wait and see. It is not a forgone conclusion and seems less likely every day. But a possibility. Time will tell. I am on the side of those who believe peace and a viable government will come out of Iraq.
LOL, I don't think so. But in Aruba it is sold in the pharmacies for pregnant women. Its low in alcohol, and highest of all beers in antioxcidents. I only drink it for my health :P
America..the Greatest Country ever given to Man by God.can you imagine the hellhole this world would be without America shedding her blood in the name of Freedom.Europe is free because of America..The Soviet Union broken apart because of America.She is and always will be| the last best hope for freedom around the world
chrycohauler 1 year ago
@chrycohauler Our best moments are when we help others realize their dreams. The Marshall Plan made the sacrifice of WW II meaningful by creating the conditions requisite for peace and prosperity. We need a similar stroke of genius to counter the influence of China in the Developing World.
saulpaulus 1 year ago
WTF - is that Michael Jackson in the middle of that Boy Scout Troop @ 1:21 ?
LMAO - want some candy little boy ?
jbryant13 3 years ago
I must confess that I copied rather than produced this one and that may be the only pic that I would have left off.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
where is the first photo from? that looks like arizona, utah, or something. i'd like to drive that road sometime, so if you could let me know, i'd appreciate it.
yossarian7890 3 years ago
I believe it's Utah.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
God Bless the outstanding men and women that have served. The Wizards behind the curtain are not worthy of you!
jonah70757 3 years ago
Yeah, well, you have me there. Never been a big fan of Chicken Hawks.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
AMERICA Shining City on a Hill? BULL CRAP!!
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
jonah70757 3 years ago
America is what we make it to be.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
"Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country's been doing to you."
The Avengers
BooBooLane 3 years ago
My country hasn't been doing anything to me...other than giving me the freedom to live as I choose and the ability and inclination to make things better.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
Well, the ole Boo-Boo is only a peace-time vet whose military record doesn't compare to your Vietnam War heroism.
It's your ultra-humanism which is frightening. Secular Humanism and Big Religion keep winning and destroying everything in their paths.
You could have won the CMO--your ideas would still be dead wrong.
BooBooLane 3 years ago
Never claimed to be a hero, but my ideas are exactly right. It is your cynicism that I find frightening.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
This song is more nauseating than "God Bless America."
BooBooLane 3 years ago 2
I guess if you don't love America you aren't going to love this song.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
SAULPAULUS we love America but it is not the country that used to deserve this song and it is akmost gone.. Wake up from your sleep induced state
jonah70757 3 years ago
It never is the country it used to be...because it never used to be what any nostalgic view pretended it was. When I was a boy, African Americans were getting murdered for trying to vote. Now an African American is about to be elected president. That is what this middle-aged white man calls progress.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
When we the People take this country back from the scum that has looted and indebted it and decived the evryday average american and we start acting like the Nation we were mean't to be then sing this song. And it is a disgrace to have JFK on this sickening video. He was a great man who gave his live for this country and what are we doing about it!
jonah70757 3 years ago
We, the People never really lost this country. I don't believe in a Red America. I don't believe in a Blue America either. I believe in a Red, White, and Blue America. JFK had his moments, but--like this country--he was very imperfect as well. This video isn't about loving everything this administration or any other does in the name of America. It is simply about loving America and I do--without reservation.
saulpaulus 3 years ago
yes and with Rush Limbaugh to help them, they just might be able to figure out how
jokr8790 4 years ago
Dunno...they've been trying to turn the lights out for a while now...can't quite seem to do it!!!
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free so we can deport them back to their countries of origin or torture whichever amuses us the most.
jokr8790 4 years ago
well since ALL Americans (including Native Americans) either are immigrants or are descended from them, I guess we'll all have to go...who's gonna turn off the light?
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Lets not forget those who would have discovered the country from the other side of the world eventually anyway. Chinese. or Japanese? Its OK, I like sushi as well as fried rice.
gerry301 4 years ago
Yeah, but even Pat Buchanan or Tom Tancredo or Lou Dobbs can't deport someone before they get here, can they?
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I'm not sure native americans can be classified as immigrants and I'm quite sure Buchanan, Tancredo & Dobbs would certainly try.
jokr8790 4 years ago
Well, they came from Asia originally as I understand it.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I believe that's correct. If we go by seniority, however, then those who would want to deport them (the ones we haven't already killed by genocide) would have to leave first, thereby leaving no one available to deport the native americans.
jokr8790 4 years ago
Well, I guess Buchanan, Tancredo, and Dobbs are the only real Americans left now that John Wayne and Ronald Reagan are dead...so I guess they'll be the ones to turn out the light.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Depends if you go by the first in first out rule or not. I have no doubt it would be used. Which would leave the Iraqi immigrants to turn out the lights.
gerry301 4 years ago
My vote is for America and for the issues I have outlined in the "About This Video" section.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I vote for the US as well, but do not share your pessimisim, in particular with Africa. The US has recently establised an Africa command militarily. A Marshall plan is not needed for Africa because of the emmense problem of corruption. The war in Iraq has been won by the troops, and a future exists in Iraq. For both the US and the Iraqi people.
gerry301 4 years ago
I am only pessimistic for Africa if we follow the policy you suggest. Corruption is not as big a problem as you and others believe. To the extent it exists at all, it is due to US Cold War and European colonialist policies.
We cannot control Africa or Iraq militarily. We can only convince the people of those places that a free and independent future aligned with the West is in their interest.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I think the majority of people in Iraq believe thier best interests are with the US and relations with the west. Malaki recently stated; The US does not understand the fear Shias feel from the Sunnis, even when there is no longer a need. The best way to have reconciliation is to replace ministers with technocrates and provide equal services to all. Making reconciliation a process and not an immediate goal.
gerry301 4 years ago
It seems to me that Maliki and his bunch are joined at the hip with Iran and are just humoring us while our guns are in his country. Unclear what average Iraqis think, other than that they are tired of the blood and mayhem that they probably associate, and not unreasonably, with the war we started. I am not convinced that there will be anything but an all out fratricidal war between the Shia and their Iranian allies and the Sunni and their Sunni allies including Al Qaeda when we leave.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
That possibility exists and I believe Malaki has specifically asked for troops to remain for just that eventuality. That dosen't mean it won't happen. but with the US overlooking many of the military operations of the Iraqis, hopefully it won't.
gerry301 4 years ago
Maliki and his cohort and their Iranian backers are just waiting for us to pull out...and sharpening their swords and daggers. No matter how long we stay, no matter how many of our people come back in body bags, without their limbs, without their right minds, this won't change. It's discouraging.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Its a forgone conclusion in your mind. If I thought like that I'd be discouraged also. Most americans could give a s*** about military deaths other than how it may get thier political party elected. Same with the MSM. (How many papers will it sell). Once the fighting is over and Iraq becomes back page news, Americans will never hear about the "wounded" and thier plight until the next war.
gerry301 4 years ago
I never stop thinking about them...not for the past 32 years have I stopped. The last names on the Wall are from an operation my ship was involved in. They include three boys murdered by the Khmer Rouge because Kissinger couldn't miss his last opportunity to play general. He was just a continuation of McNamara...and they are best buddies. They are still convinced they knew better then the JCS. Read Dereliction of Duty by HR McMasters and say after me S-H-I-N-S-E-K-I.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Then you know what I'm talking about. You would be in the minority of americans who lost friends or family during times of conflict. I was stationed in Vietnam and fellow airman as well as marines died where I was. Fortunately none were friends or relatives. The biggest mistake in Iraq was the underestimateing of the insurgency, as well as the Sunni backlash. It also became a cause for Al Queda. Your argument has merit.
gerry301 4 years ago
I'm not convinced we ever should have gone in. We should have continued containment in Iraq, gone whole hog in Afghanistan and Darfur with wide support around the world...and given China notice as to where the world's future lay.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I was against going in, but we did. Every politician who voted to send the troops to war should be allowed to finish office and never be allowed to run for public office again. It would make all politicians think twice before sending troops to fight a war when the dipshits immediately turned thier backs on them for political purposes.
gerry301 4 years ago
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. We helped China stalemate the Japanese during WWII. There is no reason China and the US cannot be on friendly terms. With neighbors such as Russia, India, Pakistan. and several others, the US only needs to bide its time before an arrogant new China gets in a fight with its neighbors.
gerry301 4 years ago
If you mean should we engage China...yes. We just need to work to encourage our value system all over the world. Darfur and Africa are the place to start. If eventually we have to pass the baton as Britain did to us, hopefully it will be to a China that has learned to respect human rights. But we must stand tall now.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Darfur is a human disaster brought about by primative societies. It would seem as long as it is Africans killing Africans who cares. Yet the humanitarian crisis looms in its wake. The UN is better able to handle this type of situation. The US can help by providing humanitarian assistance as well as military(Aircraft to fly supplies and rotate peacekeepers). The last thing we need with Afganistan and Iraq, is US military intervention.
gerry301 4 years ago
Darfur is a human disaster created by cynical & brutal Sudanese leaders with the connivance of their Chinese patrons while the world stood and watched. Unfortunately, we were bogged down in Iraq. That is one critical part of that mistake.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
A couple of AC130 gunships and some satelite intel might help defuse the issue also. Flying in from Chad, it would be denyable. Nah, the NYTs would get hold of it and we would be invading the Sudan on the front page. China, Iran and Hugo Chavez would be decrying US imperialistic behavior. The world would angrely denounce US aggression, and the Sudanese gov would demand 4 billion in reparations.
gerry301 4 years ago
We must establish a strong alliance between NATO & the AU, have the AU put most of the boots on the ground with NATO special forces, logistics, & air. The Sudanese have forfeited whatever claim they may have had to sovereignty over Darfur by their brutal behavior.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Much of NATO has thier spec ops people in Afganistan and the rest don't want to be bothered. The AU forces are being trained by US spec ops people in thier home countries and flown back and forth by the US. The Sudan is a souvergn country and as much as possible we need to work with thier government to allow peacekeepers and aide to legitimately flow. But I understand the Sudanese government is tied up with jailing teachers who name thier teddybears Mohammed.
gerry301 4 years ago
If we worked to get the NATO and the AU on the same page and if we had a Marshall Plan for Africa, there is no way any European or African nation would stand in the way of peace, justice, and freedom for the people of Darfur...and for the govts of China, Venezuela, and Sudan if they objected. It is a matter of will. If the US stands up and says so, others will follow.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
We are where we are & have to make the best of it. I hope we can learn from our mistakes. Joseph, Gary, and Danny weren't personal friends, but I guess I took their deaths personal. We can't afford to lose any more good people because of arrogant bureaucrats like McNamara, Kissinger, and Rumsfeld.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Well said, but how do you get a politician with integrety and brains elected? It seems like the job goes to the person with the lowest common denominator.
gerry301 4 years ago
Every generation has them. Who are our Trumans, Marshalls, Harrimans, Kennans, Achesons, Vandenbergs, and Hoffmans?
On the GOP side, there's Powell and McCain. I also like Huckabee and Brownback. Biden and Obama are appealing on the Dem side...and...don't kill me...I've read Hillary's bio and there is more to her than the media usually tells us. In any event, deal with it cause I am convinced she'll be our next president.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I don't like politicians in general. I find most to be like britteny Spears in Hollywood. No brains just a following. But for some reason I keep on voting. I don't like any in the pack and wish we had 15 different partys to choose from and a coalition formed to rule. And truman in history is a prize while in office was the lowest rated up to that time. Maybe the same with Bush, if he gets what he started. Truely a coup.
gerry301 4 years ago
Bush is no Truman. Much of the reason Harry was low rated was his stance on civil rights incurred animosity of many whites. He also inherited natural postwar slowdown & the fall of China & Russians getting the Bomb happened on his watch. He could have done little to change these things. He also fired General Pompous Ass who everyone loved.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
LOL, General Pompous Ass. (I gotta remember that one). Don't forget the Korean war and the riots among Chinese and North Korean prisoners and thier claims of prisoner abuse. Claims that the US was using chemical weapons as well.(not true). World opinion came down hard on Truman. Until the war was over and the world got a glimpse of what the other side did.
gerry301 4 years ago
Don't think US public opinion would have been much concerned with any claims of POW abuse. Never heard anything about chemical weapons. If it happened, it couldn't have had much effect on US public opinion. Just read about SK Reconcialiation Commission and mass murders carried out by SK and sometimes by UN troops.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Again, I understand that people need to know events that took place, but it must be put into context. Is that important? Yes, it is. In Vietnam where 36,000 known assasinations and cold blooded murders done by the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong, the only thing anyone in the world remembers is My lie, One of two known atrocities committed by US troops. Its time to lay major responsibility for crimes where the majority of the crimes occur.
gerry301 4 years ago
When the UN was finally given a list of UN personnel listed as POWs in North Korea, they were shocked that the list appeared about 50,000 people less than the UN expected. So if the "World needs to know about "No Gun Ri", which is disputed, or other shameful acts of the boogyman west, I'm not overwelmingly interested in whipping my backside with chains so I can repent.
gerry301 4 years ago
During the year before this september 26,540 innocent Iraqi people died a violent death, 536 were attributed to Coalition forces. The year prior to that 14,910 innocent Iraqis died Violent deaths, 370 attributed to coalition forces. But what does anyone in the US know about? Right, Abu Graebe. (No one died). Source: Iraq the Body Count, IBC, used by AP, UPI, NYTs.
gerry301 4 years ago
I agree the insurgents are worse but we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back because we aren't as bad as they are. We just plain shouldn't torture...and, Mitt, I don't care what some generals who have never been in enemy hands as Senator McCain has tell you, we shouldn't torture and we shouldn't equivocate about whether we will torture.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I agree.
gerry301 4 years ago
Great!!! Now if I could just sell you on the Marshall Plan and the Darfuri Protectorate ideas, we'd have a ballgame!!! Why don't you get a copy of Greg Behrman's The Most Noble Adventure and let me know what you think after you've read it.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
No sale on the Marshall plan. I like military killing bad guys, but hate the press. I'm not going to read your recommendations unless you read mine.
gerry301 4 years ago
Pity...it's a great book.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
LOL, I'm sure it is. And I am an avid reader. But I don't think it would appeal to me. No offence.
gerry301 4 years ago
none taken...but I think you'd be surprised.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
BTW, what books are you recommending? I have a whole list on my site.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I'm a big fan of W.E.B. Griffin, also enjoyed James Clavel (Taipan, King Rat, Shogun) "East of Chosen" I would recommend. It really tells the story of what happened east of the Chosen resevoiur. Recently read "The coldest war". Not a best seller, one persons account of his one year in Korea. Got much info on the prisoner abuse scandle from this book. Believe the author was James Brady. Written 20 years ago.
gerry301 4 years ago
several Chosin websites recommend East of Chosin by Roy Appleman among a whole host of others.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Actually, I understand the number to be about 100,000...and the massacre at Hue by NLF and NVA was about 10X as many as at My Lai. Plus their guys all got medals while some of ours got Courts Martial.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Agreed.
gerry301 4 years ago
And yes, during the Korean war the world public got major news coverage of treatment of UN POWs in South Korea. There were several fights among the POWs (with some deaths) as well as guards intervening. It was trumped up by the Chinese and NKs and was major news from the "front". Look it up.
gerry301 4 years ago
Don't doubt it happened...just doubt it would have made much difference to the US public.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
And what impact has Abu Graebe had?
gerry301 4 years ago
that was a different world...I'd have to read somewhere where there was significant US public outrage at the time
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I don't know how to answer this. It was major news and formed public opinion against the UN forces in Korea during the stalemate at Panmunjun. (The stalemate lasted almost two years). You should read about the korean war and the political as well as military history.
gerry301 4 years ago
I have read a number of things on the Korean War. A lot of folks were bummed by the stalemate and by the firing of Pompous Ass, but I never read anything about the public being bent out of shape by prisoner abuses.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
My uncle was guarding POWs at war's end...I'll ask if he knows anything.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
The prisoners were held on Cheju do, at a place called Koji Do. The camp commander was taken hostage by the POWs at one point, several incidents of POWs not wanting to be repatreated vs those wanting to return. South Koreans in the North Korean army vs other North Koreans.etc.etc. The Chinese infiltrated the camps and caused several of the riots. I would be surprized if your uncle didn't remember it.
gerry301 4 years ago
He came in at war's end, but he'd probably know of it. I do recall now some sense of scandal---not about prisoner abuse---about having to send back Chinese and North Koreans who didn't want to go back under Communist rule. That I can believe was unpopular given the mood of the times.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I think that all of those I mentioned have it in them to be real leaders. Romney, on the other hand, seems to be the biggest snake in the grass out there. I think his middle name is pander.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
If I had to vote today, it would be a toss up between Thompson and Guiliani. Neither is 100% up to the task, but may learn while in office to be as smart as you and I are. The others scare me.
gerry301 4 years ago
Well, there may be something in them I haven't considered. Never been a big fan of Lazy Fred's and what I saw of Rudy prior to 9/11 scares me. He'd be spending half his time in shouting matches with Sharpton...and he's a Yankee fan...a for real one!!!!
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I agree on both of your assessments. I voted for McCain the first time around when he was in the primaries. A little off the wall, but thats better than alot off the wall. Sorry, just don't trust Hillery.
gerry301 4 years ago
She can be a little too crafty and aloof for her own good at times, but there is more too her than meets the eye.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Uh, she doesn't meet my eye either. Sorry. I'm not gay, (no offense to those inclined) but Bill would have been better looking.( sorry about that comment)
gerry301 4 years ago
Hmmm...not even totally sure I understand the comment, but I get that you don't like Hill.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
If we do not, along with our European allies, intervene decisively in Darfur and create a Marshall Plan for Africa, this planet will be dominated by authoritarian China in 50 years. There is hope for the future, but only if we act now.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Why would we want to intervene at all if thier problems were due to us to begin with. Shouldn't we leave well enough alone? Let China be the ones to get the blame for Africas failures.
gerry301 4 years ago
Although it isn't clear, you seem to be saying that America played no role in Africa's current problems. This is totally untrue.
Let's forget for a moment about the past history of American involvement in the slave trade---a history that was long, deep, shameful, and important to the growth of our economy during our early history.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
True. Continues to occur in parts of Africa as well as the mid east.
gerry301 4 years ago
Beyond that, you need to study the history of the Cold War. The Cold War turned hot in Africa far more than iy did anywhere else. As many as 10 million Africans died in 16 wars involving the interests of one or both of the great powers. And that doesn't even include wars in Africa since the fall of the USSR, many of which stem from the Cold War conflicts and use US, Russian, and Chinese provided arms.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
So we should stay out. Let Russia and China fuel the next civil wars in Africa. I believe much of Africa is awash with AK47s, RPGs, etc. Not M-16s and TOW missles. But by your account Russia and China are not liable for any of the problems in Africa. Nor is Islam. Its the Western Boogyman.
gerry301 4 years ago
We've never stayed out. Wanna know who the biggest arms supplier in the world is? Hint:it ain't those other two guys. I'm not saying they're not liable, I'm saying they don't care and we should because a peaceful, free, and stable Africa is in our national interest for many reasons.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Actually I do agree with the US being involved in Africa. Just pulling your chain because I don't buy the western Boogyman theory often taught in universities. It reminds me of Shias cutting thier bodies so they can be repentant. Yes the US is the biggest arms supplier in the world, but the arms are mostly sold to responsible countries. Russia and China will sell to anyone with the cash. Thier is a difference.
gerry301 4 years ago
Hmmm...yes...Saudi Arabia...our partners in peace...and how many of the 9/11 hijackers DIDN'T come from there? And how many lashes do they still want to administer to a rape VICTIM?!
saulpaulus 4 years ago
The largest percentage of foriegn insurgents in Iraq were Saudis as well and Osama got most of his funding from Saudi Arabian supporters. But the Government was not involved in those transactions, same as 9/11. There are diplomatic protests from all over the world about injustice in the case of the rape victim and SA needs to wake up. But they are moving ahead slowly and peacably and better things are expected from them. Would you rather we treat them as adversaries?
gerry301 4 years ago
Their govt encourages the Wahhabis from whence the terrorists come. They have also done much to encourage Palestinian terrorism and obstructionism. The business in Annapolis is just the latest example. I think we need to have a more realistic attitude toward our "partners" and I think we need to work aggressively to reduce our need of fossil fuels and diminish Saudi influence.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Well first of all you have to get our own congress to do something about energy independence. In the last 40 years they have done "Nothing". I equate wahhabis much the same as Baptists. Altho wahhabis bread a more violent following in dirt poor countries, it gives the poor a path to justice they never had before. Especially in areas that are completely corrupt.
gerry301 4 years ago
Baptists don't go around beating women and killing "infidels".
saulpaulus 4 years ago
LOL, true. I was speaking to thier zeal to get converts.
gerry301 4 years ago
Also, both sides used aid as bribes. Neither side cared much if aid built palaces, bought guns to oppress the people, and lined Swiss bank accounts. All that mattered was: Is the SOB a reliable ally. We have, thankfully, changed our aid policy since the Cold War. China has not. Also, see the 6 pt series I posted "US Cold War Crime" (something like that). The US and Belgium conspired to murder Lumumba, one of Africa's most promising leaders, and replaced him with Mobutu, probably the worst.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Sorry, I'm not a subscriber to the west is to blame for all the evil in the world. Sometimes its personal responsibility. At least its what I learned when I was growing up. As far as aide, it still gets lost if its not watched closely by the world bank or other outside institution. But thats not thier problem, its the fault of the west that they can't seem to take care of themselves.
gerry301 4 years ago
Facts are hard to ignore. If you believe in personal responsibility, then why shouldn't the US own its actions--exactly as I've described? I'm not saying that Africa shouldn't be accountable. I'm saying we & the Europeans played a major role in making it as it is. And I'm saying we not only share a moral responsibility, we have a strong self-interest in making it better. BTW, there was a LOT more accountability built into Marshall aid and recent US Africa aid than in Cold War programs.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
How many billions in bad debt has been cancelled in Africa. The moral responsibility rests with Africans not outside countries. Again, the debt has been paid, the cold war is over, the European colonists have gone, and many governments in Africa still can't seem to get it right. Yes, Africa must be held accountable or its more of the same.
gerry301 4 years ago
The bulk of those billions went to line the pockets of thugs like Mobutu who we placed in power, not caring what they did to their own people. Many of those countries are starting to get it right, but the US isn't doing enough to support them--including ending many farm subsidies that make it impossible for Africans to compete in the global economy. We are a long way from paying that debt.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
"Many of the countries are starting to get it right". And under whose guidence did that happen? China? Russia? Some of these coutries governments should just be shut down by the world community and bids sent out for foriegn companies to run thier affairs. Bektel as well as several dozen other companies are large enough to do so under contract, with renewal based on job performance.
gerry301 4 years ago
They are starting to get it right, sometimes because of, sometimes in spite of Western help. For example, we have huge subsidies for our farmers, but we tell them to stop subsidizing theirs...and their farmers can't compete. Just read today how Malawi ignored us & its farmers are feeding the whole region. And, yes, Chinese aid hasn't been helpful. They'd love to have authoritarian govts in Africa as in Burma. That's why we need to step up.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
We're doing OK. It isn't the marshall plan, but as progressive countries in Africa move forward they help themselves as well as have more help available. A return to the something for nothing is a losing proposition.
gerry301 4 years ago
What we are doing is inadequate. We need to work with countries willing to to govern well and build functioning modern economies with at least adequate healthcare, education, and transportation. We must help them develop a niche for their economies to compete globally. Read more about the Marshall Plan. It wasn't something for nothing. Everything had to be accounted for & US businesses benefitted as Europeans could pay for US goods.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Well lead functioning countries have many resources available and there is help available. There are many countries in Africa that are under tribal rule and will not progress until the primitive behavior of the ministers changes. China fits well into these countries and can have the ill will gained when the countries fail again and again. The US may need to adjust policy as time goes by, but we are on the right track.
gerry301 4 years ago
Disagree. We need to set up countries that are progressing politically as models and do all we can to help them develop. And we need to encourage the others on the path to real development. That is how the battle for world hegemony will go in this century with China...at least until the Chinese military is comparable in strength to ours.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
No. The US does not need to set up countries that are political models. The US needs to support countries that have set themselves up as politically viable and to provide assistance when asked for, if appropriate. China will burn thier fingers the hard way as they evolve by supporting corrupt regimes that will fall into civil war. The US does not need to repeat the process.
gerry301 4 years ago
We must make it clear that democracy and progress are the way of the future in Africa or they will become a thing of the past. If we do not step in and insure democracy's future in Africa and elsewhere, the Chinese will fill the void...and the bleak future mentioned in my essay by 2050 will be all too real for our children and grandchildren.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
We must insure those countries in Africa that are progressive and democratic are helped to suceed as role models for other nations and peoples in Africa. It will become clear rapidly whose style of government is the right path to follow by other Africans. Otherwise we go back to being neocolonists and the cycle perpetuates itself.
gerry301 4 years ago
That's kind of the idea behind my Marshall Plan. We had spent plenty on aid before the Marshall Plan began and it all seemed to be going down the toilet. We need a plan to lift those nations out of extreme poverty and into the global economy. And this time, the Plan would also be supported by the nations of the EU and a whole passel of multinationals. foundations, and NGOs that didn't exist in 1947.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
OK, we seem to have a meeting of the minds here, except a marshall plan is not needed. The resources are available through conventional sources.
gerry301 4 years ago
I think it is...we need to look at helping them in creating the building blocks...the way it was done back then, all the European nations got together and came up with what they needed. Then local people, perhaps with govt help, would buy a tractor or steel or whatever from the US...instead of the money going to the US it would go to build the country's infrastructure.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Yes progressive solutions and help for enterprising companies and individuals is a super idea. Massive aide to ministries are an appointment with failure. I think we need to agree to disagree.
gerry301 4 years ago
Perhaps we do...but consider, we wasted a lot of money propping up dictators in the past...why not spend enough in targeted aid...renewed every year as it was with the Marshall Plan and strictly accountable? The system worked so well then that there was almost NO fraud in a program that amounted to more than 2% GNP (as opposed to about .1% GNP for our current aid budget.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
This is not then. The solutions of the past that worked in Europe will not work in Africa. It is an entirely different continent with an entirely different social makeup. It must be encouraged to grow at the rate it is capable.
gerry301 4 years ago
Totally disagree. There are responsible govts there now. There may beed to be some adaption for culture, but I see no reason similar solutions cannot work.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
BTW, if you look at the last part of my statement as to the candidates for both parties...the Bechtel argument might be useful here. And, although it'd never happen, I'm quite serious about the Arlington public service idea.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I agree it would be improbable that the Bektel argument would happen, but a form of it is not. If shown to work, it would transform Africa. One can only hope.
gerry301 4 years ago
By the way, Transparency International rates Iraq (the current Iraq under US occupation) as the third most corrupt nation on the planet. Only Burma (whose patron is...wait for it...China) and Somalia (a country where foreign intervention and weapons sales have led to war lord rule) are higher.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
LOL, I believe it. But it is something the Iraqis will have to work out among themselves. I'm surprized Afganistan is not up there as well. However, the US did not create the system of corruption, and has done much to persuede the government otherwise.
gerry301 4 years ago
Undoubtedly there was a culture of corruption that preexisted 2003. War, however, disrupts societies and leads to a black market economy. This is true of Iraq. A car wash can't get water legally, so they illegally tap into a water main. Textbooks are available only on the blackmarket and at three times the price. It's the same with most every govt service. The thing is: we started the war, so we bear responsibility.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Yes as well as the minister of the imterior who has 20,000 on the payroll to build and maintain the water supply but only 1000 people seem to be available to do it. The small stuff is not the issue. Its the ministers and deputy ministers and every other big wig in government getting thier hands in the till.
gerry301 4 years ago
Given time to get thier government in full operation and corruption should decline. But being an accepted part of society it will always be a problem.
gerry301 4 years ago
The small stuff is very much the issue to the average Iraqi. If the Nam taught us anything, it should be that we have to convince the average Joe and Jane that we are on their side and that we are going to help them live a decent peaceful existence.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
From the military blogs I read every day thats been happening for quite some time. Most Iraqis like the troops and they know we are on thier side. The ongoing "Iraqi salvation groups" are a direct result of that. It didn't just magicly appear. The US was clearly the better choice. Thanks to the troops.
gerry301 4 years ago
I hope that you are right about that, but it may not matter. I think that Iran is just waiting in the wings, knowing we can't stay there forever.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Sadr is the major Iraq/Iranian waiting in the wings and his group has been decimated by special forces hunter killer groups. He is under close watch and I suspect if he makes the wrong moves he will lose many more of his close associates. He knows the danger and must make his own decision as to what direction he will take. As long as Patraeous is in Iraq Sadr will be under his thumb.
gerry301 4 years ago
I am convinced that the whole Maliki govt is in with the Iranians. If they ever did turn on the Iranians, the Iranians would do a number on them.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Iraqis have a well known distrust and dislike of the Iranians. The eight year war is one , but the Iranians are considered persians and not arabs. And visa versa. The two do not mix. The Iraqis also do not want a theocracy as in Iran. There would be major opposition to Iranian influence. I'm not sure about how Malaki and his government stand. But I think they may be just smart enough to know what the Iraqi people would accept.
gerry301 4 years ago
Sunnis...not Shia Iraqis. Maliki and his bunch will be closely aligned with Iranians from now on and will likely persecute Sunnis as they did Shia under Saddam.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
Its possible, I will wait and see. It is not a forgone conclusion and seems less likely every day. But a possibility. Time will tell. I am on the side of those who believe peace and a viable government will come out of Iraq.
gerry301 4 years ago
I've not seen anything yet to indicate it. Hope I'm wrong, of course.
saulpaulus 4 years ago
I'll have a Guinness on that.
gerry301 4 years ago
They make a non-alcoholic brand I could drink!!!
saulpaulus 4 years ago
LOL, I don't think so. But in Aruba it is sold in the pharmacies for pregnant women. Its low in alcohol, and highest of all beers in antioxcidents. I only drink it for my health :P
gerry301 4 years ago