I am trying to decide if I should learn these Four Serious Songs or not. They would seem to have little appeal for a general audience. There are other Brahms songs that might be better in that respect. Still, a voice teacher friend once recommended them for me. I might give it a try, as I think I might finally have the technique to pull it off.
He's Russian. He has a Russian accent. Sounds a lot like Leiferkus, who is, of course, a baritone, not a bass. I like it. A good rendition of the song.
@singsungify Kipnis sang Wagner etc on great stages in a time when there were no super titles like today. He doesn't sing like a hick. He sings like one of the greatest basses of all time, wishing to have this text understood at the back of the hall over roaring orchestras. Sie sollen das in Acht nehmen wenn Sie ueberhaupt ein Saenger sind...
Dear Dodon no instrument is as fascinating as the human voice and you are just giving an academic teaching to anyone who deserves it, instrumentalists could be good, or very good, but as Kipnis and many other singers interpret and perform none of them can ever express themselves, Vox Humana is the base of human composed music, period and God bless you for these recordings
congratulations to czardodon for this extraordinary posting from legendary bass Alexander Kipnis(1936) a treasure the singer, the opus and the recording
I hasten to point out that part of the problem with most performers - especially singers - is their complete lack of interest in the OTHER genres of the composer, particularly those pieces which were written around the same time as the pieces they are performing. Examples - the clarinet sonatas, the organ chorale preludes, and of course, the late piano pieces, op. 116 through 119. But why should they interest themselves in something so irrelevant as that?
Don't you know, organboi - singers aren't interested in pitch. Intonation is an aspect of musicianship - it requires understanding the environment in which the vocal part is surrounded by. Singers are not musicians. They are singers. It's that simple.
and what percentage of those that study for a career in opera are 'out there making music'? Most of the vocalists I have known - and I have known hundreds - are lucky if they can get a decent paying church job with a decent music program. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but 'classical' music is rapidly diminishing from this earth while people continue to become more stupid.
If you want to discuss about the current state of music, and other arts, in our consumer society, that's a different story. But since your comment is a sweeping generalisation on singers, and starts from Alexander Kipnis - perhaps one of the finest bass voices ever heard with an extraordinary career, just read up his biography - I think my point holds.
If you try to define musicianship as the abbilitty of a performer to pitch, then precisely organ player´s aren´t the most musical guys around there. I can ´t see pressing a key as the greater concern about pitching. It isn´t even enough with beeing in pitch to be a musician. Making music requires an intelectual power that some singers have and some lack (as it happens with all kind of performers), but I figure that a guy so simplistic in his points lacks it for sure.
I think it is also worth remembering that the human voice is the first musical instrument, nothing is closer to us, and no constructed instrument is quite so personal and so fascinating. No technique is so mysterious as the voice. I think somehow, perhaps subconsciously, this is what makes many instrumentalists either suspicious or envious of singers.
i don't hear exact pitches half the time. and he sounds tired. and moore and he are not together. and the song is sung entirely unspirited, as if they are sight-reading it, like he gave little thought to the music. and he's scooping. but he does have a gorgeous sound when he's not wavering it. everytime he enters it sounds like he has no idea what he's doing.
"hit and run comments." i like that. i'll have to use that. bravo. i meant kipnis. he can't seem to stay on one tone quality for very long, and even the pitch veers. this sounds like distorted Brahms. but perhaps it's the age of the recording.
I would say it's very much the age of the recording, in the sense that musicians were less worried about technical perfection. Moreover this is as good (or bad) as a live performance, there were no corrections or digital phasing in of retakes. The approach is decidedly romantic; if you consider some of Furtwangler performances maybe you will see what I mean. Precision is lax here, but it is not the only aspect of music that can be appreciated. I have yet to hear a modern performer match this.
I am trying to decide if I should learn these Four Serious Songs or not. They would seem to have little appeal for a general audience. There are other Brahms songs that might be better in that respect. Still, a voice teacher friend once recommended them for me. I might give it a try, as I think I might finally have the technique to pull it off.
eflaspo 6 months ago
He's Russian. He has a Russian accent. Sounds a lot like Leiferkus, who is, of course, a baritone, not a bass. I like it. A good rendition of the song.
eflaspo 6 months ago
Trop dur,lui qui maîtrise si bien la mezza voce!..
abracadabranque 11 months ago
Sung too agressively, in my opinion.
Bren-nènn.
German in Brahms shouldn't be pronounced like the average Feldwebel does...
singsungify 2 years ago
Arn't you being a bit pedantic ? German was not Kipnis' native language.
CzarDodon 2 years ago
It's possible to learn German. Many singers can.
singsungify 2 months ago
@singsungify Kipnis sang Wagner etc on great stages in a time when there were no super titles like today. He doesn't sing like a hick. He sings like one of the greatest basses of all time, wishing to have this text understood at the back of the hall over roaring orchestras. Sie sollen das in Acht nehmen wenn Sie ueberhaupt ein Saenger sind...
poolatkigali 3 months ago
Dies ist ein Lied, mein Lieber, und kein Wagner.
singsungify 2 months ago
Dear Dodon no instrument is as fascinating as the human voice and you are just giving an academic teaching to anyone who deserves it, instrumentalists could be good, or very good, but as Kipnis and many other singers interpret and perform none of them can ever express themselves, Vox Humana is the base of human composed music, period and God bless you for these recordings
mymusicinlove 2 years ago
Beautiful - thanks:)
oakroom48 2 years ago
congratulations to czardodon for this extraordinary posting from legendary bass Alexander Kipnis(1936) a treasure the singer, the opus and the recording
beethomozart 2 years ago
I hasten to point out that part of the problem with most performers - especially singers - is their complete lack of interest in the OTHER genres of the composer, particularly those pieces which were written around the same time as the pieces they are performing. Examples - the clarinet sonatas, the organ chorale preludes, and of course, the late piano pieces, op. 116 through 119. But why should they interest themselves in something so irrelevant as that?
organman52 3 years ago
Don't you know, organboi - singers aren't interested in pitch. Intonation is an aspect of musicianship - it requires understanding the environment in which the vocal part is surrounded by. Singers are not musicians. They are singers. It's that simple.
organman52 3 years ago
Organman52, that is pure academic snobbery, and while you bitch about them the singers are out there making music!
CzarDodon 3 years ago
Out where? becoming rich and famous?
and what percentage of those that study for a career in opera are 'out there making music'? Most of the vocalists I have known - and I have known hundreds - are lucky if they can get a decent paying church job with a decent music program. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but 'classical' music is rapidly diminishing from this earth while people continue to become more stupid.
organman52 3 years ago
If you want to discuss about the current state of music, and other arts, in our consumer society, that's a different story. But since your comment is a sweeping generalisation on singers, and starts from Alexander Kipnis - perhaps one of the finest bass voices ever heard with an extraordinary career, just read up his biography - I think my point holds.
CzarDodon 3 years ago
@organman52 AMEN
OscarLevant1 1 year ago
If you try to define musicianship as the abbilitty of a performer to pitch, then precisely organ player´s aren´t the most musical guys around there. I can ´t see pressing a key as the greater concern about pitching. It isn´t even enough with beeing in pitch to be a musician. Making music requires an intelectual power that some singers have and some lack (as it happens with all kind of performers), but I figure that a guy so simplistic in his points lacks it for sure.
OctavioOPJ 2 years ago
I think it is also worth remembering that the human voice is the first musical instrument, nothing is closer to us, and no constructed instrument is quite so personal and so fascinating. No technique is so mysterious as the voice. I think somehow, perhaps subconsciously, this is what makes many instrumentalists either suspicious or envious of singers.
CzarDodon 2 years ago
i don't hear exact pitches half the time. and he sounds tired. and moore and he are not together. and the song is sung entirely unspirited, as if they are sight-reading it, like he gave little thought to the music. and he's scooping. but he does have a gorgeous sound when he's not wavering it. everytime he enters it sounds like he has no idea what he's doing.
organboi 3 years ago
not a fan.
organboi 3 years ago
not a fan of what? Brahms, Kipnis, the genre in general, old recordings, bass voices? and then why? hit and run comments are not nice
CzarDodon 3 years ago
"hit and run comments." i like that. i'll have to use that. bravo. i meant kipnis. he can't seem to stay on one tone quality for very long, and even the pitch veers. this sounds like distorted Brahms. but perhaps it's the age of the recording.
organboi 3 years ago
I would say it's very much the age of the recording, in the sense that musicians were less worried about technical perfection. Moreover this is as good (or bad) as a live performance, there were no corrections or digital phasing in of retakes. The approach is decidedly romantic; if you consider some of Furtwangler performances maybe you will see what I mean. Precision is lax here, but it is not the only aspect of music that can be appreciated. I have yet to hear a modern performer match this.
CzarDodon 3 years ago
A treasure for the ages.Bravo! TY.
paulostroff99 3 years ago
Thanks for posting this!
TheRealYeletsky 3 years ago 2