@thrufaithalone did you know that at every mass our father prayer is said but rarely is a saint talked about so why do you think we focus more on saints, yes we must at times learn why sometimes we ask saints to pray for us because people that think we pray to saints more frequently then to GOD(Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) will accuse us of replacing God with saints. saints are our brothers & sisters that pray for us when we are in need as long as we ask them b4 our time of trouble is at hand
@thrufaithalone did you know that at every mass our father prayer is said but rarely is a saint talked about so why do you think we focus more on saints, yes we must at times learn why sometimes we ask saints to pray for us because people that think we pray to saints more frequently then to GOD(Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) will accuse us of replacing God with saints. saints are our brothers & sisters that pray for us when we are in need as long as we ask them b4 our time of trouble is at hand
@horseman528 Like most Protestants, your interpretation of this verse is taken WAY out of context. Saints are intercessors, not mediators. And this verse was stated to say that Christ is the only way to God - excluding the non-Christian religions.
Your interpretation is flawed: check your ego at the door.
@drdst17 Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up: I myself also am a man. Also read Acts 14:8-15
@horseman528 It's still out of context. Men are not to be worshipped, but there is nothing wrong with honoring the Saints by praying to them.
St. Peter was the first Pope, head of Christ's Catholic Church. If this Church deems it worthy, then Mary and the Saints can be venerated, for the Church holds all authority in Christ's stead. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to worship the Bible, which is what Protestants do - their own interpretations of the Bible, more or less.
@drdst17 No, it doesn't say anything about worshipping the bible but it does say that God and His Word are one. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Heb. 4:12 says the Word is alive and powerful and sharper than any 2 edged sword. If you don't worship His Word than you don't worship Him. Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do the things which I say.
@horseman528 The "Word of God" is Jesus - the Word made flesh. Not YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Holy Bible. Mary and the Saints are united with God in Heaven. It is perfectly alright to ask them to intercede to God and Jesus on our behalf. It is also okay to pray directly to Jesus or God.
And this belies the ENTIRE point of my posts: that Protestants usurp the teaching authority of the Church and supplant it with their own ego, their own interpretations of Holy Scripture. It is heresy.
@drdst17 So I am worshipping my own ego? Your holiness, your eminence, holy father. Read 2 Thess. 2:3-4 Sounds like someone else may have an ego problem. My interpretation of the bible? I didn't interpret anything. I quoted scripture. I think the HIndus also have hundreds of deities and statues they pray to also. Your saints are replacements for the gods and goddesses the pagans once worshipped. The early apostles wouldn't even recognize what you call a church.
@horseman528 Yes, you are worshipping your own ego - your own Personal Jesus. And quoting scripture to USE it for your own ends IS interpreting it. You have no authority to decide what those quotes represent.
Since the rest of your post is abject lies, I'll not respond to them. God Bless.
@drdst17 Yes, the Catholic Church did not allow anyone to read the bible in their own language for hundreds of years. William Tyndale was the first to translate parts of it into english and he was strangled and burned at the stake somewhere outside of Brussels in 1536. Foxes Book of Martyrs contains many examples of people who were burned at the stake for not agreeing with the Catholic Church. You do not need saints to help you get to heaven. You only need Christ. Colossians 2:8-10
@horseman528 Tyndale was NOT condemned for translating the Bible into English: that is propaganda. He was condemned for chopping up the text to fit his own Theology. Although it is unjust to burn or murder people for their beliefs, Catholics were not the only ones guilty of doing so back in the Post-Medieval era. Henry VIII and Elizabeth I being some famous killers of Catholics.
But you are correct about only "needing" Christ to get to heaven. My point - it isn't wrong to pray to saints.
@drdst17, I'm sure you're a good person who is sincere in your beliefs. We're all pretty much products of how we were brought up to believe. I don't hate Catholics or anyone else but how can you depend on traditions that change with human whims? Traditions change with the times but God's Word is eternal. I believe the bible has all we need to know how to be saved and live a christian life. Its survived the test of time and is plain in what it says. 2 Tim. 3:16 Enuf said. Best to you.
@horseman528 And I believe that you are sincere in yours: however, they are misguided even if well-intentioned. Tradition is vitally important because it is TRADITION that created it in the Bible in the first place. Jesus preached orally to His disciples and we need to have an authority when interpreting Scripture lest we fall into error.
This is why the Bible alone is insufficient - it always was and always will be as long as sinful humans attempt to apply its teachings without authority.
@drdst17 I was not going to say anymore but the authority you speak of comes from God thru the Holy Spirit. The apostles did appoint elders in churches but that does not mean that they faithfully carried out the doctrine taught them throughout the generations that followed. This falling away was foretold by Paul in 1 Tim. 4:1-3 and 2 Thess. 2:3-4. Lets see, who forbids to marry and who sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God? Can you say "holy father" Enuf said.
@horseman528 God's authority, however, is transmuted through His Church - not solely in the book that men in that Church wrote! Jesus' mission was to found a CHURCH that would act in His stead, until He comes again. There is only one Church, with the successor of St. Peter as its head on Earth.
And when you misquote Holy Scripture to bend towards your arguments, you are only falling into error. You cannot use Scripture to attack the Catholic Church, because it is the Church who wrote it.
@horseman528 Leaders and members of the Catholic Church do not have the authority to determine its teaching and structure but are called to ensure its fidelity to Jesus and to the faith passed on by the apostles.
@craventref What puzzles me is that not one word about praying to saints or to Mary is found anywhere in scripture. If that was a general practice don't you think Paul or one of the other writers of the New Testament would have mentioned it somewhere? Nor do you find the word Pope or any other N.T. writer calling anyone other than God the Holy Father. Matt. 23:9 The doctrine of the church was complete by the end of the 1st century. No need to add or take away from it. Gal. 1:6-12
@horseman528 saint paul said it's dangerous to be decieve by word. We are not made from the bible but the bible prooves us. Jesus built his church trough Peter it means that his church started during that time and athanasius(collectecd the inspired word, student of apostle luke) called it catholic. Our church existed on pentecost d ay 33AD. No bible were used, our faith is still desame 2000 years ago.
@craventref What if Catholic traditions contradict new testament teachings or scriptures? Can they both be right and contradict? Jesus said to call no man your father except God in Matt.23:9 but yet that is a common title within the RCC. John said in 1 John 5:21 stay away from idols yet there are thousands if not millions of statues of Mary that are revered and prayed to. No way the early Jewish Christians would bow down & revere statues. Read 1 Tim.4:1-3 And who started doing that?
@horseman528 1 Corinthians 7: 25-27: Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the present distress it is well for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage.
@horseman528 Numbers 21: 8-9: And the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
@haojiesheng. The website called "A list of saints being prayed to", has hundreds of saints that catholics pray to or supposedly. It is a list of everything from cancer to sore throat and each has a corresponding saint that supposedly takes care of that problem. How can catholics remember all these hundreds of saints to ask them for intercession? This is idolatry at its worst. Why not just go to Jesus? Hindus have hundreds of gods they pray to, I see a connection here btwn RCC & Hindus.
@bornagainsaint1 There is a process for cannonization of the saints. Why not go to Jesus here on earth? Why ask other to pray for you? why pray with others to GOD? ...becaues my sperated brother Jesus asked to pray for others, and ask others to pray for us, and he asked us to gather together with 2 or more and pray in his name.
@haojiesheng. I went to the website called "A list of saints being prayed to", I have a question. How can anybody be sure that the saint they are praying to in heaven is interceding or performing miracles when they are doing this in their own name? Even satan can appear as an angel of light, he even wanted Jesus to worship him. One more thing - those in heaven do not intercede for us, Jesus does. He said in His name He will fulfill all our needs, & the first one He accomplished was forgiveness.
and since He was not on the cross YET; and since He hadn't shown them how to EAT His real flesh and drink His real BLOOD, which He would later in the last supper in Matt 26 - they thought He was like telling them to cut a piece of his flesh and eat - that WAS GRUESOME - BUT THEY KNEW Jesus meant exactly that - REAL FLESH and REAL BLOOD.
So now brother tell me don't you want to eat His real flesh and drink His real blood - like the Lord asked us to and showed us in the Last supper ?
@MrJamesthecatholic 1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” (cont 1)
"For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup"
SPOT ON ! Thats the Eucharist. Praise the Lord !
I hope you no longer see the Eucharist for what people (probably misinformed) tell you - but for what it truly is - The Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our dear Lord Jesus Christ - the greatest gift He every gave us His children - Himself.
I am truly happy that you now realize it brother. Praise the Lord ! I just prayed for you 10 minutes ago and I see your heart opening !
@MrJamesthecatholic You have just read the REVELATION of Jesus Christ after the RESURRECTION concerning the last supper or communion or your Eucharist..
Yes that is true and that the exact thing the Church believes - that its the Lord's true Body and Blood. So when the priest consecrates the bread and wine in a Mass - it no longer is bread and wine - even though it looks like blood and wine - exactly like Jesus - when He became man - Jesus looked like man - he was man - but not "just man" - He was God too.
"Transubstantiation" only the word for it, but this is its meaning - and it can only be seen through the eyes of complete faith.
@MrJamesthecatholic Still a big difference. The real presence of Christ starts when a person receives Christ as their personal Saviour. When believers gather for communion. We take the bread and wine to remind us of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We just see the bread and wine. Jesus Christ (real presence) in the form of the Holy Spirit is always in a person the whole time even without taking the bread and wine. Your priest has to do something in order to bring the real presence of Christ.
"Your priest has to do something in order to bring the real presence of Christ. "
Thats a good question. The priest has to do something - but not by his own power or authority - but by the power and authority given to him through apostolic succession.
Jesus gave the Apostles the power to "do this in memory of me" right after He said "this is MY BODY" (NOT THIS IS A BREAD WHICH REPRESENTS MY BODY - BUT IT IS MY BODY). The Apostles had been given that authority
given that Authority in the Last supper. The Church was not to die out obviously when the Apostles dies out. So they ordained successors (for example 2Tim2:2 "and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.")
Every single Catholic priest can trace his ordination to the priesthood back to the Apostles. That is why once they say the words at the last supper - it is no longer bread and wine - but Jesus!
@MrJamesthecatholic. According to the RCC the only way that the bread&wine becomes Jesus is when the priest says the words of consecration, Jesus doesnt come down voluntarily, bcuz only a priest has the authority to bring Him down. BUT Romans 10:6-11 says "do not say in your heart who will bring Christ down from above and who will bring Him up from the dead". Acts 1:9-11 says "the next time Jesus comes back is the same way He ascended back into heaven." The RCC p-hood has no authority over Him
@MrJamesthecatholic. Catholic catechism #1377 says that the presence of Christ(whole&entire) begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the bread&wine stays fresh. In the book "The Real Presence" by Peter Julian Eymard the cph titiled "The Sacrifices Of Jesus In The Eucharist" talks about how the priest pronounces the words of consecration and Jesus leaves heaven to become the bread&wine. This book contains alot of insults hurled at Jesus. Rns 10:6-11 & Acts 1:9-11.
"Catholic catechism #1377 says that the presence of Christ(whole&entire) begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the bread&wine stays fresh. "
ok how does that justifies your claim:
"Jesus doesnt come down voluntarily, bcuz only a priest has the authority to bring Him down."
@MrJamesthecatholic. Jesus doesnt come down at all to be offered on aynyones altar. It is the RCC who believes they have the power and authority to call Him down, or order Him down to their altar while receiting the consecration prayer; this is insane! After He is offered on their altar they put Him in their tabernacle until He or the bread&wine begins to spoil. Who or what is spoilling, is it Jesus Himself or the bread&wine. Then the next day the priest does the same thing again. WHAT?!
you say "s the RCC who believes they have the power and authority to call Him down, or order Him down to their altar while receiting the consecration prayer"
Show me the Catholic document which says it's priests have " have the power and authority to call Him down"
@MrJamesthecatholic. In the book titled "Faith Of Millions" (a catholic book)on pages 555 & 556, it talks about how the priest speaks the words and Jesus bows His head and obeys the priest and He comes down to the RC altar millions of times every day around the world. The RCC really believes this. I would say that the way this catholic book is written it certainly sounds like the priest has the last word concerning Jesus' destiny leaving Him without any say whatsoever in this matter.
First of all Catholics do not read every single book written by Catholics to know what our faith is. Not everything written by Catholics is catholic - unless you agree that since Obama supports abortion/murder publicly - murder/abortion is a protestant doctrine.
second "on pages 555 & 556"
Guess what the book ONLY HAS 445 PAGES, including the index. So much for your scholarship and references.
@MrJamesthecatholic. Type in "The Faith of Millions" and click onto search web. On page one click onto "The
Faith of Millions, critique by Dr. Michael Todd". A whole article comes up about what the RCC teaches and believes concerning the power and authority that the priests have. This book was written by Rev John A. O'Brien a catholic priest. What the RCC prides themselves in is written in this book, and this book is an insult to Jesus.
Faith of Millions by John A. O'Brien is a book. Rather than read it and talk about it - you want me to read some loony article written by somebody ? That too supposedly claiming something written on pages 555 & 556 of a BOOK WHICH HAS ONLY 445 PAGES ? Are you sure you are ok ?
On top of everything, No matter what the book says - THATS ISNT CATHOLIC DOCTRINE - show me an official church document man. Cant you understand how stupid what you are proposing sounds ?
"Read the catholic catechism, this is an official church document."
There is nothing in the Catechism that says "Jesus is pulled down to earth against His will, forcibly when the priest says the words of consecration". If I am wrong - please quote the paragraph from the Catechism which says that.
My brother you are being lied to by anti Catholic bigots - and you are just falling for their garbage. If you bother to check facts - you'd know.
No my brother I wasnt calling you stupid and this is not an argument to find out who among us is smarter. What you wrote (quoting an article which quotes a page which does not exist without checking the book first was stupid - that does not make you stupid). I am in all probability stupider than most of you. But lets get back:
Please quote the paragraph from the Catechism which says that "Jesus id pulled forcibly without His consent into the Eucharist"
"In the book titled "Faith Of Millions" (a catholic book)on pages 555 & 556"
Since the above comment is essentially garbage (see my previous comment) - show us something from the magisterial / official church documents, which say that "Jesus is pulled from Heaven without His consent when a priest says the words of consecration".
"Holy Spirit is always in a person the whole time even without taking the bread and wine"
brother simple question.... If Jesus said "this is truly my FLESH and this is truly my BLOOD, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life" - WILL YOU REFUSE TO RECEIVE HIM ?
When you give yourself to Jesus - will He refuse you ? So will you refuse Jesus when He gives Himself fully and unconditionally in the Eucharist ? Please think and pray about it with an open heart.
@MrJamesthecatholic. When someone celebrates His supper it is bcuz that person has already turned themselves over to the Lord, and they are celebrating His blood sacrifice. When we are not celebrating His supper we are still under His blood in otherwords we are still His, and the Holy Spirit is always with us. The RCC offers His supper everyday as an unbloody sacrifice for all sin, and tells its members that this is the only way to be forgiven and to keep Jesus in their life. RCC is wrong.
"When someone celebrates His supper it is bcuz that.."
ok nice try...to change the topic. Lets get back to the questions:
YOU CLAIMED YOU AND ABUKID ARE HOLIER THAN THE ONES IN HEAVEN - THAT IS WHAT I SAID ABSOLUTE BS AND GARBAGE. and not anything about Jesus on the cross.
So dont play tricks and answer the questions asked in the previous comments.
in other words.. if Jesus is offering Himself - fully truly and in the substance of bread and wine (He said it is His true flesh and blood in John 6 and then in the last supper He showed us how to do that - using bread and wine) - WOULD YOU TO HIS OFFER TO YOU ?
Jesus could have just said - all of us are saved and we would all be saved - he can do that - He is God. But this is the way he choose to do. You love Jesus.. will you refuse His offering ?
@MrJamesthecatholic Read again 1 Corinthians 10 and 11. Pay attention to the word 'thanksgiving', 'participation' and 'remembrance'. By partaking the bread and wine. It reminds us the New Covenant of God. The bread reminds us that His body was the one who hangs on the cross instead of us. The wine reminds us that without His shedding of blood. We are condemn forever. Last thing, whenever believer's gather anywhere. A fellowship. Anyone can be assign to perform the breaking of bread and the cup.
abukid I am sure you'v got it. If you are dishonest to not accept it - its your loss not mine not anyone else int the world.
"Anyone can be assign to perform the breaking of bread and the cup."
Thats your own stupid dishonest interpretation - The Lord's last supper was not attended by "anyone" - it was attended by ONLY THE APOSTLES - it is ONLY TO THE APOSTLES who he told "do this in memory of me" - NOT TO ANYONE.
If you deny Christ and throw away his Body and Blood - you loose.
@MrJamesthecatholic Read again 1 Corinthians 10 and 11. All the apostles are ordinary citizens. Anyone who decide to follow Jesus Christ comes from ordinary citizens. If Jesus said do it in remembrance of Him. Any believers then can observe it. Dingbat, did Jesus mention any Catholic Pharisee priest below?
Matthew 18:28 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
The Apostles were born as ordinary folks but when Jesus selected them - they became something much more than that - Apostles of the one true God. Jesus had several disciples who followed him - but 12 Apostles who he selected. So no they were no longer ordinary.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”"
That in no way makes Apostles "ordinary". If you think it does - grossly wrong interpretation.
@MrJamesthecatholic Ordinary means everyone is a servant of the Most High. Look, God calls u a fool.
1 Cor 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” So then, no more boasting about human leaders!
That is a different topic. But do you now agree that Jesus is present truly - body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist ? Please be honest - I am not trying to win a debate - that is not my intention - that never will be my intention. I just want you to see the truth.
"You believed in the substance conversion. I don't. I believed in representation. "
You can continue believing whatever you want - that's your free choice. But if you choose to believe in falsehood and live in falsehood - only you and those who look up to you for their spiritual life suffer. But remember what Jesus said:
John 15:22 " If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin."
@MrJamesthecatholic Pray to your saints that on judgment day, praying to humans is not a sin. That's your excuse that you told them. Don't forget about the lie on purgatory. Jesus said:
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
"He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by. "
Filthy devil you are again denying the Lord by denying the Eucharist. Your bones should tremble for the blasphemy you commit. Do you know what will happen when you deny the Lord ? The disciples who left Jesus in John 6 (saying that the teaching is too hard) - they are a TYPE of the protestant deformation - which denies Him
Matt 10:33"whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."
"In Matthew 6:8 Jesus says that the heavenly Father knows our needs and prayers before we even ask Him. Saints in heaven dont need to intercede for us."
really ? If that is a reason why saints dont need to intercede for us .... errr... then can you tell us why even we need to pray to God ? DOESNT HE ALREADY KNOW WHAT WE OURSELVES ARE GOING TO ASK HIM ? So if that's the reason why we shouldn't ask Saints to pray for us.. please tell us why we should pray at all ?
@MrJamesthecatholic You're such a dingbat. Those disciples that left does not know that He will end up at the cross. We today knows what happen to Jesus. When we accept Him as our personal Saviour and became a believer. We acknowledge He gave His body(bread) and shed His blood(wine) for our sins. The Holy Spirit teaches us that d problem was solved on the cross when real flesh and blood was broken and spilled for our salvation. He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by.
"The Holy Spirit teaches us that d problem was solved on the cross when real flesh and blood"
deceiving Satan is that why Jesus said right there in John 6:55-56:
"For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."
The Holy Spirit told US that interpretation ? No the Holy Spirit dint tell US that Jesus was not talking about His flesh and Blood. Your father Satan probably has told you.
@MrJamesthecatholic When believer's take the bread and wine. By believing that His body and the shedding of His blood forgave all our sins. It pointed the believer's to the cross to remember what He did and His finished work. Eat me and drink me is another way of saying believe in me. It doesn't turn into real flesh and real blood. You can't take what I said because you believed in more good works needed to attain one's salvation. You eat wafer/drink wine and don't know what it means.
"Eat me and drink me is another way of saying believe in me."
No it isnt - thats your own private faulty opinion - and you must be a real moron to think that it means believe after the Lord repeatedly says that it His flesh and blood indeed and that unless you chew and eat His flesh and drink his blood you are a dead looser in spirit - aka Satan.
There is no way anyone with a brain the size of a peanut and faith the size of mustard can read John 6 and thing eat mean "believe". Absurd
@MrJamesthecatholic When we take the bread. It reminded us that His body who hangs on the cross. When we take the wine. It reminded us that His blood washes all our sins. Believed on those and you will have eternal life. The disciples left because it sounds gruesome. He wasn't put on the cross yet. Today, everyone knows why He hang on the cross. Now, believe in Him and you will have eternal life. We remember that by taking the bread and wine. You are getting mad because you are wrong.
"When we take the bread. It reminded us that His body who hangs on the cross. When we take the wine. It reminded us that His blood washes all our sins."
Ok and how does that not make the bread His true flesh and wine His true blood ? Thats what we were discussing - thats what we will stick to. The question remains - how do you EAT HIS FLESH and DRINK HIS BLOOD ? Show me anything in John 6 which says He wasn't talking about his real Flesh and Blood to be eaten and drunk by us. Show me.
@MrJamesthecatholic 1 Corinthians 10:16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.
"Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ?"
Exactly ! Hallelujah - I see the glory of the Lord enlightening your soul brother !
Thats exactly what St Paul meant - the cup of thanksgiving is the wine in the Eucharist - and St Paul is saying exactly that - that it is HIS BLOOD and not wine any more - even though it looks like wine. That is exactly what the Church believes.
"When we take the bread. It reminded us that His body who hangs on the cross. "
Where does Jesus say that "bread" reminds us of Him ? Show me.
In Matt 26:26 He says "Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; THIS IS MY BODY.""
Jesus said THIS IS MY BODY - where did He say "THIS IS A PIECE OF BREAD" ? When the Apostles TOOK and ATE IT - were they eating His BODY or BREAD - ACCORDING TO THE LORD ?
exactly - you are correct. HALLELUJAH ! abukid you are correct on this brother
It was really really gruesome. The people who were hearing the Lord - knew exactly what He was talking about - He was talking about eating His real flesh and drinking His real blood. That was gruesome - cause like you said He was not on the cross yet. But THERE WAS NO DOUBT THAT HE WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT A METAPHOR - OTHERWISE THERE IS NOTHING GRUESOME ABOUT IT.
"He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by. "
Filthy devil you are again denying the Lord by denying the Eucharist. Your bones should tremble for the blasphemy you commit. Do you know what will happen when you deny the Lord ? The disciples who left Jesus in John 6 (saying that the teaching is too hard) - they are of type of the protestant deformation - which denies Him
Matt 10:33"whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."
@MrJamesthecatholic@Archangel777Catholic Jesus is the groom. We humans who believes in Him are His bride. Also, He is the Father, we are the sons and daughter. If we do not communicate with God. That's like a dysfunctional family. He is the Creator, we are the creation. Praying to Him shows your worship and to glorify Him for His infinite power. He shows His love by the blessing and provision He gives us. We should thank Him for that. Does angels and saints do that? Is God deaf to you?
Satan - tell that to your own soul. Read the comment fully before frothing out your filthy rubbish. If you cant understand whats being discussed, have the humility to ask. No one is stating "don't pray to God" - on the contrary - I am using that to show that bornagainsaint1's interpretation is (perhaps unintentionally) WRONG.
I know satan is stupid - but this stupid ? Learn to read satan.,
In Matthew 6:8 Jesus says that the heavenly Father knows our needs and prayers before we even ask Him. Saints in heaven dont need to intercede for us. The saints who are still alive pray for one another, and for themselves, this is normal behavior. Even though the living understands that the Father knows our needs before we ask, it is still wonderful to reflect on the Almighty.
@bornagainsaint1 I've been through this with you....frankly it's getting tiring.....We do pray directly to God, the saints are just some extra help, like if someone you know prayed for you. End of story, if you don't take advantage of the great opportunity that God gives us in them, be my guest. God bless and please convert.
@Archangel777Catholic. The living saints can pray for the living saints, but the bible says that those who pass on(saints in heaven included)do not pray for us and we do not pray to them. Jesus prays for us. If at this moment the saints in heaven are praising the Lord, then it is there own prayers that are going before the Lord. We give all to Jesus and they give all to Jesus. The living saints and the saints in heaven dont need to intercede for each other.
@bornagainsaint1 It seems that I am quoting Scripture that is directly contrary to your claims. So what do you say to my interpretation of the passages?
@haojiesheng Read what God says about you. He called you fool for praying to created beings like your dead saints.
Romans 1: 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
@abukid Does the word "eisegesis" mean anything to you? The passages you quote are referring to idolatry. No one is suggesting, nor is the Catholic faith suggesting that anything or anyone other than God be worshiped. We are simply saying that the saints in heaven are not dead and that they will and do pray for us just like you or I would pray for someone. I can ask them to pray for me just like I can ask you to pray for me. In the future, please refrain from calling me names.
@haojiesheng I just quoted what God said. If offended. Tell Him. Idolaters, quit making Mary and your dead saints as your FEDEX and UPS to deliver your message. TRUTH is HERE:
Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
@bornagainsaint1 If you do not mind, where in the Bible does it say this? The Catholic monks that sat and copied the Bible by hand for thousands of years must have accidentally skipped this verse every single time worldwide then! And indeed, it is their own prayers to the Lord, they just happen to be for us because we asked them to pray for us!
Revelation 21:27 Nothing evil will be allowed to enter (heaven), nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
@abukid Do you know the word NEW as in NEW Testament? The one that changed almost everything? It is not man's will either, it is the will of the Lord when He came down and visited our saints.
@Archangel777Catholic. The Holy Spirit intervenes, He helps us pray to the Lord, saints in heaven do not intervene for us, they dont need to help us. Jesus prays for us. The Holy Spirit also reminds us of the Lord's blood sacrifice and He also reminds us of the sermon on the mount deliverd by the Lord Himself.
@bornagainsaint1 "They don't NEED TO HELP" Well niether does GOD NEED YOUR help! So basically your useless GOD doesn't NEED YOUR HELP either!... You see it's not becaues GOD NEEDS YOU, but becaues GOD LOVES YOU , that he USES YOUR HELP.
@bornagainsaint1 So it is not normal for the saints in heaven to pray and reflect on the Almighty? And it would not be normal for them to join in the prayers of the "living" even though Scripture says that they are living? Have you watched the entire video that I posted or are you simply stating your personal beliefs? It might be more effective to present an alternative interpretation of the Scriptures I discussed then just stating what you believe.
@haojiesheng@Archangel777catholic. The saints in heaven who are waiting for their resurrected bodies are praising the Lord with their own prayers, and the living saints still here in the flesh are praising the Lord with their own prayers, and the Lord knows our needs even before we ask the Father, Matt 6:8.
So what miraculous miracles have been performed through you in the name of Jesus Christ? Who gave you the authority to say you are a saint? What cross are you carrying? Where are your fruits?
I will compare your life with any Catholic saint, you lose hands down. You reject Jesus and His word. John 6:53. You are not a saint! You're a heretic.
@icimblind. John 6:53 means that we must believe in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus was making a very strong statement, that we must believe in His blood sacrifice, if we dont then we go to hell. The Holy Spirit helps us to "drink" in Jesus' forgiveness and mercy. By eating and drinking His supper we are saying thankyou Lord for your selfless act of absolute mercy and forgiveness. He took what we deserve. But He resurrected triumphantly just as we will when we put our faith & trust in Him.
@bornagainsaint1 When people are proven wrong. They get mad. All this post is recorded in heaven. Maybe, it can be use on judgment day. Good job in answering John 6:53.
Abukid you filthy devil I am still waiting for your answer to "Who died on the cross ? Son of God or Son of Man ?" since you claimed that Mary was the mother only of the Son of Man (aka the Nestorian Heresy). You are running away from questions and then you try to bad mouth filth. Answer the question. I dare you.
@abukid. You are right, the prophets and the apostles never encouraged anyone to call on those who passed on, and they never told anyone that those in heaven are praying for us. The RCC keeps saying that the ones in heaven can pray for us in a much better way bcuz they are more holy than we are, this is so wrong. The bible says that we are forgiven and we are purged, we can come forward to the Lord. The saints in heaven are blessed and so arent the living saints.
"The RCC keeps saying that the ones in heaven can pray for us in a much better way bcuz they are more holy than we are, this is so wrong. "
Oh really ? So are you and abukid holier than the folks in heaven ? (shaking my head in disbelief at the garbage that gets "taught" in heretic religions such as protestantism). How do you compare your holiness with those in heaven. Explain the process please.
@MrJamesthecatholic. Jesus said to come unto Him and He will purge us from all our sins. Yes we can be holy too, but to say that only those in heaven can intervene for us is wrong. The Holy Spirit helps us to pray, He helps us to trust in Jesus' blood sacrifice. Those in heaven have lived their lives, let them be. The purging that Jesus accomplished on the cross for us is not heretical garbage. I have explained.
Oh no you havent - you have tried to avoid it by trying to get around it.
You said "ones in heaven can pray for us in a much better way bcuz they are more holy than we are, this is so wrong. "
I never said you are NOT HOLY. How do you compare your holiness with those in heaven. ? aka how are you and abukid MORE HOLY than the folks in Heaven, where nothing unclean can enter. ? Explain the process please of holiness comparison please?
"The purging that Jesus accomplished on the cross for us is not heretical garbage. "
You are just being plain intellectually dishonest with the above comment. YOU CLAIMED YOU AND ABUKID ARE HOLIER THAN THE ONES IN HEAVEN - THAT IS WHAT I SAID ABSOLUTE BS AND GARBAGE. and not anything about Jesus on the cross.
So dont play tricks and answer the questions asked in the previous comments.
since you are so keen to avoid the questions.. let me post them once again for you:
So are you and abukid holier than the folks in heaven ? . How do you compare your holiness with those in heaven. Explain the process of holiness comparison please.
Unless you explain - it is obvious to anyone reading these comments that your theology is plain heretical goofy garbage.
@bornagainsaint1 The saints in heaven aren't living? I though GOD was the GOD of Abraham, and the GOD of Jacob and the GOD of Isaac, and that he was also the GOD of the living not the dead.
@gtepp031387. When I pray to the Father in Jesus' s name, will He still hear & answer my prayers even though I dont believe that my prayers go through the saints in heaven & then to the Father? Where do I stand as far as being heard and forgiven since the bible says to give our burdens to the Lord? Jesus said to give our burdens to Him. The living can help each other as Jesus told us to, BUT relying on saints in heaven to intercede is wrong. He also said to go into our "closets" & pray.
@bornagainsaint1 You don't have to pray through the saints... I never said that nor is that a teaching of the church. The simple fact is tho that they do interceed for us, and they are more rightious then us here on earth, and "the feverant prayer of the rightious person is very powerful" James 5:16. I have aproblem with you saying it is wrong tho, as anyone who has read the bible has prayed through the saints in psalms 103 and 148.
"we must believe in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus...."
really ? Since when did BELIEVE come to mean EAT ?
"The Holy Spirit helps us to "drink"...."
oh really ? So why does Jesus say "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."
Is there anything in John 6 which even remotely implies that we should not EAT his flesh ? The original Greek word used is “trogo" which mean "gnaw" His flesh?
@MrJamesthecatholic, @icimblind. In John 6:63 Jesus explained His words in 6:53 to those around Him and us, He said it is not the flesh that profits but the Spirit that gives life and truth. In other words He was saying that if we take Jn 6:53 literal than it wont solve the problem of sin, the Holy Spirit teaches us that the problem was solved on the cross when real flesh and blood was broken and spilled for our salvation. He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by.
Tobit 12:12,Mark 12:25-27, Ephesians 6:18, Intercession examples – in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, there are examples of angels and dead prophets coming to intercede for humans on God's behalf.
John 6:53 Jesus said, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
This command was for every one. You do not obey Jesus Christ, and therefore You are a heretic & hypocrite!
@icimblind Dingbats, that is why angels are called messenger. You have to talk to the boss before the messenger acts. Read Tobit 12:20. Mark 12 is about resurrection. Resurrection will not happen until Christ return. Ephesians 6 is an instruction for living saints. Your saints and my saints are different. Catholic saints are those people declared by your Pope. My saints are all true believers and followers of Christ, living or dead. Once a person becomes a child of God, they become saints.
@icimblind There are millions around the world because Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations. Those born in the Sprit of Christ are saints. Not like yours. You have specific saints like Saints of Firemen, Saints of Unemployed, Saints of Miracle, Saints of Gardeners etc. Santo Muerte!
"Next time, can you do a blood type check and DNA check? You're looking at my name. There's one."
You a saint ? How many times do you insult God ? What do you mean by "saint" ? Are you already dead on earth ? Cause no one is talking about "saints on earth". Cummon answer. Name atleast one of saints in heaven.
@icimblind John 6 is called last supper or communion. Communion celebrates the union of a person with Christ and as believers commemorate Christ’s gift of life.
It is the true presence of Christ. 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”
@MrJamesthecatholic You have no case against me. I knew not any Christian church who does not eat bread and drink wine. All do the last supper or communion or Eucharist. If Jesus said, do it in remembrance of Him. Then I do it. Jesus prayed to the Holy Father found in different books of the bible. How come you're disobedient and prays to human beings which no command from God is found in the bible. Disobedient child of the devil you are..
@MrJamesthecatholic. John 6 lead up to the Lord's(last) Supper where Jesus said "eat and drink my supper, do this in remembrance of me after I shed my blood for the sins of the world".
"John 6 lead up to the Lord's(last) Supper where Jesus said "eat and drink my supper"
ok abukid the heretic did not say "LEAD UP" he said "it is the last supper"
In John 6 Jesus says ""Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" So do you have true life in you ? You dont unless you have eaten His blood and drunk his blood.
Please explain how you eat His flesh and drink His blood in light of the above.
abukid is a lost soul. I just found his spam on other Christians channel that believe in the intercession of the saints. It is not just the Catholics who believe this as you know. Catholicism precedes his man made heretical faith by hundreds of yrs. There is no amount of biblical passages you can throw @ him that will convince him, nor will he answer those passages when they're presented to him.
1 Timothy 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
@abukid Thus Daniel gave up meat (as well as wine, another symbol of rejoicing), and Paul endorses the practice of temporary celibacy to engage in a special spiritual discipline of increased prayer (1 Cor. 7:5). By denying ourselves these good things we encourage an attitude of humility, free ourselves from dependence on them, cultivate the spiritual discipline of sacrifice, and remind ourselves of the importance of spiritual goods over earthly goods.
@abukid In fact, if there was an important enough purpose, Paul recommended permanently giving up marriage and meat. Thus he himself was celibate (1 Cor. 7:8). He recommended the same for ministers (2 Tim. 2:3-4) and for the unmarried in order to devote themselves more fully to the Lord (1 Cor. 7:32-34), unless doing so would subject them to great temptations (1 Cor. 7:9). Similarly, he recommended giving up meat permanently if it would prevent others from sinning (1 Cor. 8:13).
@abukid Since the Catholic Church requires abstinence from meat only on a temporary basis, it clearly does not regard meat is immoral. Instead, it regards it as the giving up of a good thing in order to attain a spiritual goal. So you tell me you never fasted? Jesus fasted Matthew 4:2, and he recommends fasting. "But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting" Matthew 17:19-21. Seems to me the abstaining from certain foods and sex is Biblical under the right conditions.
@wealththinkers Put your thinking cap. You claim Peter as your founder. Yet Catholic church does opposite of what Peter did. Read Acts 10 (food) and and Matthew 8 (mother-in-law). Fasting is abstaining from all food, not certain food. Forbidding to marry is different from option to marry. You might as well re-read 1 Cor 8 for it is a suggestion so as not to offend a weak conscience brother.
@abukid Yeah over and over again, I suppose you never saw 35But in every nation, he that feareth him, and worketh justice, is acceptable to him. Seems to me we are practicing exactly Peter did. Yep, food. I think what I posted stands pretty clear. Where does it say Fasting is from all food and not certain foods? Every Catholic has the option to marry including Clergy. If they choose.
@abukid yea you are right, because of those who are week, it is in certain circumstances OK not to eat meat. that is what it says. Why do you deny it? If you brother decides to do sacrifice or fast from certain foods. why do you judge him. It is not you to judge your brother, or anyone else for that matter. Be careful. Matt 7
1Judge not, that you may not be judged, For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.
@abukid If you disagree with the authority of Peter and the Apostles, then you disagree with Christ who intentionally gave the authority. For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Matt 13:34. Question who did the Son of Man leave in authority?
@wealththinkers Simple answer. Jesus is the master. Every true follower of Christ is His servant. Anyone who has true faith in Jesus and Jesus alone was given the promise of Holy Spirit to bind the enemy and loosen the blessing. Gates of hades cannot prevail the Holy Spirit who dwells in individuals that claims Christ as the Annointed One. Sorry to tell you. Many Christians does not believe that Peter alone got that authority. All of Jesus disciples got that authority even of today.
@abukid You claim to believe in Bible alone, but these are your words, not the Bible, Be specific. 2nd, we are not the direct servant that the Lord gave authority too. Our authority only comes from Christ to the Apostles and then to us, who are baptized and follow his sayings and commandments. Remember, I follow Apostolic Tradition along with God's Word. Scripture provided if needed.
@wealththinkers Of course, it's my own word. I'm trying to explain myself. Authority is given to the children of God. Catholic church has no concept of children of God. That's why they insist they go to purgatory.
Rom 8:14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Gal 3:26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
@abukid Jesus gave this example 2000 years ago before he left, We were not alive to claim the authority for our selves. The Apostle were there and they were his servants. They were the ones given the power to bing and loose, they were the ones who received Christ sayings and commandments, and hand down those traditions to us through his Church.
@wealththinkers Do you live in the back country and do you have TV at home? How come people get heal when someone pray for them in the name of Jesus Christ? Where do they get their authority? Answer, from the Holy Spirit. Your Popey D' Pharisee walks around with staff ala Moses as if going to a beauty pageant.
Luke 10:1 After this the Lord appointed 72 others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.
Very Good indeed, thank you!
mac6817 2 months ago
In all of this you missed Jesus' instructions: “When you pray, say: 'Our Father...'"
thrufaithalone 5 months ago
@thrufaithalone did you know that at every mass our father prayer is said but rarely is a saint talked about so why do you think we focus more on saints, yes we must at times learn why sometimes we ask saints to pray for us because people that think we pray to saints more frequently then to GOD(Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) will accuse us of replacing God with saints. saints are our brothers & sisters that pray for us when we are in need as long as we ask them b4 our time of trouble is at hand
laffiteaumusic 5 months ago in playlist catholic stuff
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@thrufaithalone did you know that at every mass our father prayer is said but rarely is a saint talked about so why do you think we focus more on saints, yes we must at times learn why sometimes we ask saints to pray for us because people that think we pray to saints more frequently then to GOD(Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) will accuse us of replacing God with saints. saints are our brothers & sisters that pray for us when we are in need as long as we ask them b4 our time of trouble is at hand
laffiteaumusic 5 months ago in playlist catholic stuff
1 Timothy 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
horseman528 6 months ago
@horseman528 Like most Protestants, your interpretation of this verse is taken WAY out of context. Saints are intercessors, not mediators. And this verse was stated to say that Christ is the only way to God - excluding the non-Christian religions.
Your interpretation is flawed: check your ego at the door.
drdst17 5 months ago
@drdst17 Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up: I myself also am a man. Also read Acts 14:8-15
horseman528 5 months ago
@horseman528 It's still out of context. Men are not to be worshipped, but there is nothing wrong with honoring the Saints by praying to them.
St. Peter was the first Pope, head of Christ's Catholic Church. If this Church deems it worthy, then Mary and the Saints can be venerated, for the Church holds all authority in Christ's stead. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to worship the Bible, which is what Protestants do - their own interpretations of the Bible, more or less.
God Bless.
drdst17 5 months ago
@drdst17 No, it doesn't say anything about worshipping the bible but it does say that God and His Word are one. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Heb. 4:12 says the Word is alive and powerful and sharper than any 2 edged sword. If you don't worship His Word than you don't worship Him. Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do the things which I say.
horseman528 5 months ago
@horseman528 The "Word of God" is Jesus - the Word made flesh. Not YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Holy Bible. Mary and the Saints are united with God in Heaven. It is perfectly alright to ask them to intercede to God and Jesus on our behalf. It is also okay to pray directly to Jesus or God.
And this belies the ENTIRE point of my posts: that Protestants usurp the teaching authority of the Church and supplant it with their own ego, their own interpretations of Holy Scripture. It is heresy.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 So I am worshipping my own ego? Your holiness, your eminence, holy father. Read 2 Thess. 2:3-4 Sounds like someone else may have an ego problem. My interpretation of the bible? I didn't interpret anything. I quoted scripture. I think the HIndus also have hundreds of deities and statues they pray to also. Your saints are replacements for the gods and goddesses the pagans once worshipped. The early apostles wouldn't even recognize what you call a church.
horseman528 4 months ago
@horseman528 Yes, you are worshipping your own ego - your own Personal Jesus. And quoting scripture to USE it for your own ends IS interpreting it. You have no authority to decide what those quotes represent.
Since the rest of your post is abject lies, I'll not respond to them. God Bless.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 Yes, the Catholic Church did not allow anyone to read the bible in their own language for hundreds of years. William Tyndale was the first to translate parts of it into english and he was strangled and burned at the stake somewhere outside of Brussels in 1536. Foxes Book of Martyrs contains many examples of people who were burned at the stake for not agreeing with the Catholic Church. You do not need saints to help you get to heaven. You only need Christ. Colossians 2:8-10
horseman528 4 months ago
@horseman528 Tyndale was NOT condemned for translating the Bible into English: that is propaganda. He was condemned for chopping up the text to fit his own Theology. Although it is unjust to burn or murder people for their beliefs, Catholics were not the only ones guilty of doing so back in the Post-Medieval era. Henry VIII and Elizabeth I being some famous killers of Catholics.
But you are correct about only "needing" Christ to get to heaven. My point - it isn't wrong to pray to saints.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17, I'm sure you're a good person who is sincere in your beliefs. We're all pretty much products of how we were brought up to believe. I don't hate Catholics or anyone else but how can you depend on traditions that change with human whims? Traditions change with the times but God's Word is eternal. I believe the bible has all we need to know how to be saved and live a christian life. Its survived the test of time and is plain in what it says. 2 Tim. 3:16 Enuf said. Best to you.
horseman528 4 months ago
@horseman528 And I believe that you are sincere in yours: however, they are misguided even if well-intentioned. Tradition is vitally important because it is TRADITION that created it in the Bible in the first place. Jesus preached orally to His disciples and we need to have an authority when interpreting Scripture lest we fall into error.
This is why the Bible alone is insufficient - it always was and always will be as long as sinful humans attempt to apply its teachings without authority.
drdst17 4 months ago
@drdst17 I was not going to say anymore but the authority you speak of comes from God thru the Holy Spirit. The apostles did appoint elders in churches but that does not mean that they faithfully carried out the doctrine taught them throughout the generations that followed. This falling away was foretold by Paul in 1 Tim. 4:1-3 and 2 Thess. 2:3-4. Lets see, who forbids to marry and who sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God? Can you say "holy father" Enuf said.
horseman528 4 months ago
@horseman528 God's authority, however, is transmuted through His Church - not solely in the book that men in that Church wrote! Jesus' mission was to found a CHURCH that would act in His stead, until He comes again. There is only one Church, with the successor of St. Peter as its head on Earth.
And when you misquote Holy Scripture to bend towards your arguments, you are only falling into error. You cannot use Scripture to attack the Catholic Church, because it is the Church who wrote it.
drdst17 4 months ago
@horseman528 Leaders and members of the Catholic Church do not have the authority to determine its teaching and structure but are called to ensure its fidelity to Jesus and to the faith passed on by the apostles.
craventref 1 day ago
@craventref What puzzles me is that not one word about praying to saints or to Mary is found anywhere in scripture. If that was a general practice don't you think Paul or one of the other writers of the New Testament would have mentioned it somewhere? Nor do you find the word Pope or any other N.T. writer calling anyone other than God the Holy Father. Matt. 23:9 The doctrine of the church was complete by the end of the 1st century. No need to add or take away from it. Gal. 1:6-12
horseman528 22 hours ago
@horseman528 saint paul said it's dangerous to be decieve by word. We are not made from the bible but the bible prooves us. Jesus built his church trough Peter it means that his church started during that time and athanasius(collectecd the inspired word, student of apostle luke) called it catholic. Our church existed on pentecost d ay 33AD. No bible were used, our faith is still desame 2000 years ago.
craventref 17 hours ago
@craventref What if Catholic traditions contradict new testament teachings or scriptures? Can they both be right and contradict? Jesus said to call no man your father except God in Matt.23:9 but yet that is a common title within the RCC. John said in 1 John 5:21 stay away from idols yet there are thousands if not millions of statues of Mary that are revered and prayed to. No way the early Jewish Christians would bow down & revere statues. Read 1 Tim.4:1-3 And who started doing that?
horseman528 8 hours ago
@horseman528 Acts 7:2 - St. Stephen calls Jewish leaders "fathers"
Acts 21:40, 22:1 - St. Paul calls Jerusalem Jews "fathers"
Rom 4:16-17 - Abraham called the father of us all"
1Cor 4:14-15 - I became your father in Christ through gospel
Heb 12:7-9 - we have earthly fathers to discipline us
the Black Madonna was paintede by st. luke
Num 21:8-9 - Moses made bronze serpent & put on pole
1Kgs 6:23-29 - temple had engraved cherubim, trees, flowers
craventref 7 hours ago
@horseman528 1 Timothy 4:1-3 is refering to you; the catholic church is still the same 2,000 yrs ago.
craventref 7 hours ago
@horseman528 1 Corinthians 7: 25-27: Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the present distress it is well for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage.
craventref 7 hours ago
@horseman528 Numbers 21: 8-9: And the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
craventref 7 hours ago
Venerate the saints! God Bless them!
willthacheerleader18 10 months ago
@haojiesheng. The website called "A list of saints being prayed to", has hundreds of saints that catholics pray to or supposedly. It is a list of everything from cancer to sore throat and each has a corresponding saint that supposedly takes care of that problem. How can catholics remember all these hundreds of saints to ask them for intercession? This is idolatry at its worst. Why not just go to Jesus? Hindus have hundreds of gods they pray to, I see a connection here btwn RCC & Hindus.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 There is a process for cannonization of the saints. Why not go to Jesus here on earth? Why ask other to pray for you? why pray with others to GOD? ...becaues my sperated brother Jesus asked to pray for others, and ask others to pray for us, and he asked us to gather together with 2 or more and pray in his name.
gtepp031387 11 months ago
@haojiesheng. I went to the website called "A list of saints being prayed to", I have a question. How can anybody be sure that the saint they are praying to in heaven is interceding or performing miracles when they are doing this in their own name? Even satan can appear as an angel of light, he even wanted Jesus to worship him. One more thing - those in heaven do not intercede for us, Jesus does. He said in His name He will fulfill all our needs, & the first one He accomplished was forgiveness.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@abukid
and since He was not on the cross YET; and since He hadn't shown them how to EAT His real flesh and drink His real BLOOD, which He would later in the last supper in Matt 26 - they thought He was like telling them to cut a piece of his flesh and eat - that WAS GRUESOME - BUT THEY KNEW Jesus meant exactly that - REAL FLESH and REAL BLOOD.
So now brother tell me don't you want to eat His real flesh and drink His real blood - like the Lord asked us to and showed us in the Last supper ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic 1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” (cont 1)
abukid 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic (cont 1) 1 Corinthians 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup"
SPOT ON ! Thats the Eucharist. Praise the Lord !
I hope you no longer see the Eucharist for what people (probably misinformed) tell you - but for what it truly is - The Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our dear Lord Jesus Christ - the greatest gift He every gave us His children - Himself.
I am truly happy that you now realize it brother. Praise the Lord ! I just prayed for you 10 minutes ago and I see your heart opening !
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic You have just read the REVELATION of Jesus Christ after the RESURRECTION concerning the last supper or communion or your Eucharist..
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
Yes that is true and that the exact thing the Church believes - that its the Lord's true Body and Blood. So when the priest consecrates the bread and wine in a Mass - it no longer is bread and wine - even though it looks like blood and wine - exactly like Jesus - when He became man - Jesus looked like man - he was man - but not "just man" - He was God too.
"Transubstantiation" only the word for it, but this is its meaning - and it can only be seen through the eyes of complete faith.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Still a big difference. The real presence of Christ starts when a person receives Christ as their personal Saviour. When believers gather for communion. We take the bread and wine to remind us of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We just see the bread and wine. Jesus Christ (real presence) in the form of the Holy Spirit is always in a person the whole time even without taking the bread and wine. Your priest has to do something in order to bring the real presence of Christ.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"Your priest has to do something in order to bring the real presence of Christ. "
Thats a good question. The priest has to do something - but not by his own power or authority - but by the power and authority given to him through apostolic succession.
Jesus gave the Apostles the power to "do this in memory of me" right after He said "this is MY BODY" (NOT THIS IS A BREAD WHICH REPRESENTS MY BODY - BUT IT IS MY BODY). The Apostles had been given that authority
(Cont 2)...
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
(cont 2)...
given that Authority in the Last supper. The Church was not to die out obviously when the Apostles dies out. So they ordained successors (for example 2Tim2:2 "and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.")
Every single Catholic priest can trace his ordination to the priesthood back to the Apostles. That is why once they say the words at the last supper - it is no longer bread and wine - but Jesus!
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. According to the RCC the only way that the bread&wine becomes Jesus is when the priest says the words of consecration, Jesus doesnt come down voluntarily, bcuz only a priest has the authority to bring Him down. BUT Romans 10:6-11 says "do not say in your heart who will bring Christ down from above and who will bring Him up from the dead". Acts 1:9-11 says "the next time Jesus comes back is the same way He ascended back into heaven." The RCC p-hood has no authority over Him
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"Jesus doesnt come down voluntarily, bcuz only a priest has the authority to bring Him down."
show me where the Catholic Church says that sentence. We will proceed from there.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. Catholic catechism #1377 says that the presence of Christ(whole&entire) begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the bread&wine stays fresh. In the book "The Real Presence" by Peter Julian Eymard the cph titiled "The Sacrifices Of Jesus In The Eucharist" talks about how the priest pronounces the words of consecration and Jesus leaves heaven to become the bread&wine. This book contains alot of insults hurled at Jesus. Rns 10:6-11 & Acts 1:9-11.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
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@bornagainsaint1
"Catholic catechism #1377 says that the presence of Christ(whole&entire) begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the bread&wine stays fresh. "
ok how does that justifies your claim:
"Jesus doesnt come down voluntarily, bcuz only a priest has the authority to bring Him down."
please explain.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. Jesus doesnt come down at all to be offered on aynyones altar. It is the RCC who believes they have the power and authority to call Him down, or order Him down to their altar while receiting the consecration prayer; this is insane! After He is offered on their altar they put Him in their tabernacle until He or the bread&wine begins to spoil. Who or what is spoilling, is it Jesus Himself or the bread&wine. Then the next day the priest does the same thing again. WHAT?!
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
ok here you go circular again.
you say "s the RCC who believes they have the power and authority to call Him down, or order Him down to their altar while receiting the consecration prayer"
Show me the Catholic document which says it's priests have " have the power and authority to call Him down"
show us those exact words.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. In the book titled "Faith Of Millions" (a catholic book)on pages 555 & 556, it talks about how the priest speaks the words and Jesus bows His head and obeys the priest and He comes down to the RC altar millions of times every day around the world. The RCC really believes this. I would say that the way this catholic book is written it certainly sounds like the priest has the last word concerning Jesus' destiny leaving Him without any say whatsoever in this matter.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
In the book titled "Faith Of Millions"
First of all Catholics do not read every single book written by Catholics to know what our faith is. Not everything written by Catholics is catholic - unless you agree that since Obama supports abortion/murder publicly - murder/abortion is a protestant doctrine.
second "on pages 555 & 556"
Guess what the book ONLY HAS 445 PAGES, including the index. So much for your scholarship and references.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. Type in "The Faith of Millions" and click onto search web. On page one click onto "The
Faith of Millions, critique by Dr. Michael Todd". A whole article comes up about what the RCC teaches and believes concerning the power and authority that the priests have. This book was written by Rev John A. O'Brien a catholic priest. What the RCC prides themselves in is written in this book, and this book is an insult to Jesus.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
Faith of Millions by John A. O'Brien is a book. Rather than read it and talk about it - you want me to read some loony article written by somebody ? That too supposedly claiming something written on pages 555 & 556 of a BOOK WHICH HAS ONLY 445 PAGES ? Are you sure you are ok ?
On top of everything, No matter what the book says - THATS ISNT CATHOLIC DOCTRINE - show me an official church document man. Cant you understand how stupid what you are proposing sounds ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. Read the catholic catechism, this is an official church document. Dont call me stupid.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"Read the catholic catechism, this is an official church document."
There is nothing in the Catechism that says "Jesus is pulled down to earth against His will, forcibly when the priest says the words of consecration". If I am wrong - please quote the paragraph from the Catechism which says that.
My brother you are being lied to by anti Catholic bigots - and you are just falling for their garbage. If you bother to check facts - you'd know.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"Dont call me stupid. "
No my brother I wasnt calling you stupid and this is not an argument to find out who among us is smarter. What you wrote (quoting an article which quotes a page which does not exist without checking the book first was stupid - that does not make you stupid). I am in all probability stupider than most of you. But lets get back:
Please quote the paragraph from the Catechism which says that "Jesus id pulled forcibly without His consent into the Eucharist"
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"In the book titled "Faith Of Millions" (a catholic book)on pages 555 & 556"
Since the above comment is essentially garbage (see my previous comment) - show us something from the magisterial / official church documents, which say that "Jesus is pulled from Heaven without His consent when a priest says the words of consecration".
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
"Holy Spirit is always in a person the whole time even without taking the bread and wine"
brother simple question.... If Jesus said "this is truly my FLESH and this is truly my BLOOD, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life" - WILL YOU REFUSE TO RECEIVE HIM ?
When you give yourself to Jesus - will He refuse you ? So will you refuse Jesus when He gives Himself fully and unconditionally in the Eucharist ? Please think and pray about it with an open heart.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. When someone celebrates His supper it is bcuz that person has already turned themselves over to the Lord, and they are celebrating His blood sacrifice. When we are not celebrating His supper we are still under His blood in otherwords we are still His, and the Holy Spirit is always with us. The RCC offers His supper everyday as an unbloody sacrifice for all sin, and tells its members that this is the only way to be forgiven and to keep Jesus in their life. RCC is wrong.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"When someone celebrates His supper it is bcuz that.."
ok nice try...to change the topic. Lets get back to the questions:
YOU CLAIMED YOU AND ABUKID ARE HOLIER THAN THE ONES IN HEAVEN - THAT IS WHAT I SAID ABSOLUTE BS AND GARBAGE. and not anything about Jesus on the cross.
So dont play tricks and answer the questions asked in the previous comments.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
in other words.. if Jesus is offering Himself - fully truly and in the substance of bread and wine (He said it is His true flesh and blood in John 6 and then in the last supper He showed us how to do that - using bread and wine) - WOULD YOU TO HIS OFFER TO YOU ?
Jesus could have just said - all of us are saved and we would all be saved - he can do that - He is God. But this is the way he choose to do. You love Jesus.. will you refuse His offering ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Read again 1 Corinthians 10 and 11. Pay attention to the word 'thanksgiving', 'participation' and 'remembrance'. By partaking the bread and wine. It reminds us the New Covenant of God. The bread reminds us that His body was the one who hangs on the cross instead of us. The wine reminds us that without His shedding of blood. We are condemn forever. Last thing, whenever believer's gather anywhere. A fellowship. Anyone can be assign to perform the breaking of bread and the cup.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
abukid I am sure you'v got it. If you are dishonest to not accept it - its your loss not mine not anyone else int the world.
"Anyone can be assign to perform the breaking of bread and the cup."
Thats your own stupid dishonest interpretation - The Lord's last supper was not attended by "anyone" - it was attended by ONLY THE APOSTLES - it is ONLY TO THE APOSTLES who he told "do this in memory of me" - NOT TO ANYONE.
If you deny Christ and throw away his Body and Blood - you loose.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Read again 1 Corinthians 10 and 11. All the apostles are ordinary citizens. Anyone who decide to follow Jesus Christ comes from ordinary citizens. If Jesus said do it in remembrance of Him. Any believers then can observe it. Dingbat, did Jesus mention any Catholic Pharisee priest below?
Matthew 18:28 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
". All the apostles are ordinary citizens."
The Apostles were born as ordinary folks but when Jesus selected them - they became something much more than that - Apostles of the one true God. Jesus had several disciples who followed him - but 12 Apostles who he selected. So no they were no longer ordinary.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”"
That in no way makes Apostles "ordinary". If you think it does - grossly wrong interpretation.
Be honest - good for u
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Ordinary means everyone is a servant of the Most High. Look, God calls u a fool.
1 Cor 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” So then, no more boasting about human leaders!
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"All the apostles are ordinary citizens."
That is a different topic. But do you now agree that Jesus is present truly - body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist ? Please be honest - I am not trying to win a debate - that is not my intention - that never will be my intention. I just want you to see the truth.
So do you agree ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic You believed in the substance conversion. I don't. I believed in representation.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"You believed in the substance conversion. I don't. I believed in representation. "
You can continue believing whatever you want - that's your free choice. But if you choose to believe in falsehood and live in falsehood - only you and those who look up to you for their spiritual life suffer. But remember what Jesus said:
John 15:22 " If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin."
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic Pray to your saints that on judgment day, praying to humans is not a sin. That's your excuse that you told them. Don't forget about the lie on purgatory. Jesus said:
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"Pray to your saints that on judgment day, praying to humans is not a sin."
And I thought I was having a discussion with you on the Blessed Sacrament - the Eucharist.
Forget it.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
"Pray to your saints that on judgment day, praying to humans is not a sin."
And I thought I was having a discussion with you on the Blessed Sacrament - the Eucharist.
Forget it.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic You're the one who change discussion by quoting a passage. Expect a come back.
abukid 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic You're the one who quoted a passage. It's just a come back.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by. "
Filthy devil you are again denying the Lord by denying the Eucharist. Your bones should tremble for the blasphemy you commit. Do you know what will happen when you deny the Lord ? The disciples who left Jesus in John 6 (saying that the teaching is too hard) - they are a TYPE of the protestant deformation - which denies Him
Matt 10:33"whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"In Matthew 6:8 Jesus says that the heavenly Father knows our needs and prayers before we even ask Him. Saints in heaven dont need to intercede for us."
really ? If that is a reason why saints dont need to intercede for us .... errr... then can you tell us why even we need to pray to God ? DOESNT HE ALREADY KNOW WHAT WE OURSELVES ARE GOING TO ASK HIM ? So if that's the reason why we shouldn't ask Saints to pray for us.. please tell us why we should pray at all ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic You're such a dingbat. Those disciples that left does not know that He will end up at the cross. We today knows what happen to Jesus. When we accept Him as our personal Saviour and became a believer. We acknowledge He gave His body(bread) and shed His blood(wine) for our sins. The Holy Spirit teaches us that d problem was solved on the cross when real flesh and blood was broken and spilled for our salvation. He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"Those disciples that left does not know that He will end up at the cross."
so what devil ? So what - is that the point satan ?
How well you try and decieve yourself ? Since you have attention deficience let me again (for the 100th time repeat the question).
How do you drink His Blood and eat His flesh so that you have eternal life ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
"The Holy Spirit teaches us that d problem was solved on the cross when real flesh and blood"
deceiving Satan is that why Jesus said right there in John 6:55-56:
"For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."
The Holy Spirit told US that interpretation ? No the Holy Spirit dint tell US that Jesus was not talking about His flesh and Blood. Your father Satan probably has told you.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic When believer's take the bread and wine. By believing that His body and the shedding of His blood forgave all our sins. It pointed the believer's to the cross to remember what He did and His finished work. Eat me and drink me is another way of saying believe in me. It doesn't turn into real flesh and real blood. You can't take what I said because you believed in more good works needed to attain one's salvation. You eat wafer/drink wine and don't know what it means.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"Eat me and drink me is another way of saying believe in me."
No it isnt - thats your own private faulty opinion - and you must be a real moron to think that it means believe after the Lord repeatedly says that it His flesh and blood indeed and that unless you chew and eat His flesh and drink his blood you are a dead looser in spirit - aka Satan.
There is no way anyone with a brain the size of a peanut and faith the size of mustard can read John 6 and thing eat mean "believe". Absurd
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic When we take the bread. It reminded us that His body who hangs on the cross. When we take the wine. It reminded us that His blood washes all our sins. Believed on those and you will have eternal life. The disciples left because it sounds gruesome. He wasn't put on the cross yet. Today, everyone knows why He hang on the cross. Now, believe in Him and you will have eternal life. We remember that by taking the bread and wine. You are getting mad because you are wrong.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"When we take the bread. It reminded us that His body who hangs on the cross. When we take the wine. It reminded us that His blood washes all our sins."
Ok and how does that not make the bread His true flesh and wine His true blood ? Thats what we were discussing - thats what we will stick to. The question remains - how do you EAT HIS FLESH and DRINK HIS BLOOD ? Show me anything in John 6 which says He wasn't talking about his real Flesh and Blood to be eaten and drunk by us. Show me.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic 1 Corinthians 10:16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ?"
Exactly ! Hallelujah - I see the glory of the Lord enlightening your soul brother !
Thats exactly what St Paul meant - the cup of thanksgiving is the wine in the Eucharist - and St Paul is saying exactly that - that it is HIS BLOOD and not wine any more - even though it looks like wine. That is exactly what the Church believes.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
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@abukid
"When we take the bread. It reminded us that His body who hangs on the cross. "
Where does Jesus say that "bread" reminds us of Him ? Show me.
In Matt 26:26 He says "Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; THIS IS MY BODY.""
Jesus said THIS IS MY BODY - where did He say "THIS IS A PIECE OF BREAD" ? When the Apostles TOOK and ATE IT - were they eating His BODY or BREAD - ACCORDING TO THE LORD ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
"The disciples left because it sounds gruesome."
exactly - you are correct. HALLELUJAH ! abukid you are correct on this brother
It was really really gruesome. The people who were hearing the Lord - knew exactly what He was talking about - He was talking about eating His real flesh and drinking His real blood. That was gruesome - cause like you said He was not on the cross yet. But THERE WAS NO DOUBT THAT HE WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT A METAPHOR - OTHERWISE THERE IS NOTHING GRUESOME ABOUT IT.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
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MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid
"He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by. "
Filthy devil you are again denying the Lord by denying the Eucharist. Your bones should tremble for the blasphemy you commit. Do you know what will happen when you deny the Lord ? The disciples who left Jesus in John 6 (saying that the teaching is too hard) - they are of type of the protestant deformation - which denies Him
Matt 10:33"whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
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MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic @Archangel777Catholic Jesus is the groom. We humans who believes in Him are His bride. Also, He is the Father, we are the sons and daughter. If we do not communicate with God. That's like a dysfunctional family. He is the Creator, we are the creation. Praying to Him shows your worship and to glorify Him for His infinite power. He shows His love by the blessing and provision He gives us. We should thank Him for that. Does angels and saints do that? Is God deaf to you?
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"If we do not communicate with God"
Satan - tell that to your own soul. Read the comment fully before frothing out your filthy rubbish. If you cant understand whats being discussed, have the humility to ask. No one is stating "don't pray to God" - on the contrary - I am using that to show that bornagainsaint1's interpretation is (perhaps unintentionally) WRONG.
I know satan is stupid - but this stupid ? Learn to read satan.,
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
In Matthew 6:8 Jesus says that the heavenly Father knows our needs and prayers before we even ask Him. Saints in heaven dont need to intercede for us. The saints who are still alive pray for one another, and for themselves, this is normal behavior. Even though the living understands that the Father knows our needs before we ask, it is still wonderful to reflect on the Almighty.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
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MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 I've been through this with you....frankly it's getting tiring.....We do pray directly to God, the saints are just some extra help, like if someone you know prayed for you. End of story, if you don't take advantage of the great opportunity that God gives us in them, be my guest. God bless and please convert.
Archangel777Catholic 11 months ago
@Archangel777Catholic. The living saints can pray for the living saints, but the bible says that those who pass on(saints in heaven included)do not pray for us and we do not pray to them. Jesus prays for us. If at this moment the saints in heaven are praising the Lord, then it is there own prayers that are going before the Lord. We give all to Jesus and they give all to Jesus. The living saints and the saints in heaven dont need to intercede for each other.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 It seems that I am quoting Scripture that is directly contrary to your claims. So what do you say to my interpretation of the passages?
haojiesheng 11 months ago
@haojiesheng Read what God says about you. He called you fool for praying to created beings like your dead saints.
Romans 1: 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid Does the word "eisegesis" mean anything to you? The passages you quote are referring to idolatry. No one is suggesting, nor is the Catholic faith suggesting that anything or anyone other than God be worshiped. We are simply saying that the saints in heaven are not dead and that they will and do pray for us just like you or I would pray for someone. I can ask them to pray for me just like I can ask you to pray for me. In the future, please refrain from calling me names.
haojiesheng 11 months ago
@haojiesheng I just quoted what God said. If offended. Tell Him. Idolaters, quit making Mary and your dead saints as your FEDEX and UPS to deliver your message. TRUTH is HERE:
Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
abukid 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 If you do not mind, where in the Bible does it say this? The Catholic monks that sat and copied the Bible by hand for thousands of years must have accidentally skipped this verse every single time worldwide then! And indeed, it is their own prayers to the Lord, they just happen to be for us because we asked them to pray for us!
Archangel777Catholic 11 months ago
@Archangel777Catholic @icimblind @MrJamesthecatholic @haojiesheng @wealththinkers You know the word prophets? The Israelites never prayed to their dead prophets. Why do you think you’re special and with your man's will decide you want to pray to human beings?
Revelation 21:27 Nothing evil will be allowed to enter (heaven), nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid Do you know the word NEW as in NEW Testament? The one that changed almost everything? It is not man's will either, it is the will of the Lord when He came down and visited our saints.
Archangel777Catholic 11 months ago
@Archangel777Catholic. The Holy Spirit intervenes, He helps us pray to the Lord, saints in heaven do not intervene for us, they dont need to help us. Jesus prays for us. The Holy Spirit also reminds us of the Lord's blood sacrifice and He also reminds us of the sermon on the mount deliverd by the Lord Himself.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 OK, your beliefs, my beliefs, we'll only know at the end. I tried, that is all I am required to do as a Catholic.
Archangel777Catholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 "They don't NEED TO HELP" Well niether does GOD NEED YOUR help! So basically your useless GOD doesn't NEED YOUR HELP either!... You see it's not becaues GOD NEEDS YOU, but becaues GOD LOVES YOU , that he USES YOUR HELP.
gtepp031387 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 So it is not normal for the saints in heaven to pray and reflect on the Almighty? And it would not be normal for them to join in the prayers of the "living" even though Scripture says that they are living? Have you watched the entire video that I posted or are you simply stating your personal beliefs? It might be more effective to present an alternative interpretation of the Scriptures I discussed then just stating what you believe.
haojiesheng 11 months ago 2
@haojiesheng@Archangel777catholic. The saints in heaven who are waiting for their resurrected bodies are praising the Lord with their own prayers, and the living saints still here in the flesh are praising the Lord with their own prayers, and the Lord knows our needs even before we ask the Father, Matt 6:8.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
Saint abukid,
So what miraculous miracles have been performed through you in the name of Jesus Christ? Who gave you the authority to say you are a saint? What cross are you carrying? Where are your fruits?
I will compare your life with any Catholic saint, you lose hands down. You reject Jesus and His word. John 6:53. You are not a saint! You're a heretic.
icimblind 11 months ago
@icimblind @DavidVelezPerez @wealththinkers @MrJamesthecatholic @Archangel777Catholic To idolaters and those dupe by the Pope. Is Paul greeting the dead saints here?
Hebrew 13:24 Greet all of your leaders and all the saints Those from Italy greet you.
Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi
abukid 11 months ago
@icimblind. John 6:53 means that we must believe in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus was making a very strong statement, that we must believe in His blood sacrifice, if we dont then we go to hell. The Holy Spirit helps us to "drink" in Jesus' forgiveness and mercy. By eating and drinking His supper we are saying thankyou Lord for your selfless act of absolute mercy and forgiveness. He took what we deserve. But He resurrected triumphantly just as we will when we put our faith & trust in Him.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 When people are proven wrong. They get mad. All this post is recorded in heaven. Maybe, it can be use on judgment day. Good job in answering John 6:53.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"When people are proven wrong. They get mad."
Abukid you filthy devil I am still waiting for your answer to "Who died on the cross ? Son of God or Son of Man ?" since you claimed that Mary was the mother only of the Son of Man (aka the Nestorian Heresy). You are running away from questions and then you try to bad mouth filth. Answer the question. I dare you.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@abukid. You are right, the prophets and the apostles never encouraged anyone to call on those who passed on, and they never told anyone that those in heaven are praying for us. The RCC keeps saying that the ones in heaven can pray for us in a much better way bcuz they are more holy than we are, this is so wrong. The bible says that we are forgiven and we are purged, we can come forward to the Lord. The saints in heaven are blessed and so arent the living saints.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"The RCC keeps saying that the ones in heaven can pray for us in a much better way bcuz they are more holy than we are, this is so wrong. "
Oh really ? So are you and abukid holier than the folks in heaven ? (shaking my head in disbelief at the garbage that gets "taught" in heretic religions such as protestantism). How do you compare your holiness with those in heaven. Explain the process please.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. Jesus said to come unto Him and He will purge us from all our sins. Yes we can be holy too, but to say that only those in heaven can intervene for us is wrong. The Holy Spirit helps us to pray, He helps us to trust in Jesus' blood sacrifice. Those in heaven have lived their lives, let them be. The purging that Jesus accomplished on the cross for us is not heretical garbage. I have explained.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
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@bornagainsaint1
"I have explained."
Oh no you havent - you have tried to avoid it by trying to get around it.
You said "ones in heaven can pray for us in a much better way bcuz they are more holy than we are, this is so wrong. "
I never said you are NOT HOLY. How do you compare your holiness with those in heaven. ? aka how are you and abukid MORE HOLY than the folks in Heaven, where nothing unclean can enter. ? Explain the process please of holiness comparison please?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"The purging that Jesus accomplished on the cross for us is not heretical garbage. "
You are just being plain intellectually dishonest with the above comment. YOU CLAIMED YOU AND ABUKID ARE HOLIER THAN THE ONES IN HEAVEN - THAT IS WHAT I SAID ABSOLUTE BS AND GARBAGE. and not anything about Jesus on the cross.
So dont play tricks and answer the questions asked in the previous comments.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
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@bornagainsaint1
since you are so keen to avoid the questions.. let me post them once again for you:
So are you and abukid holier than the folks in heaven ? . How do you compare your holiness with those in heaven. Explain the process of holiness comparison please.
Unless you explain - it is obvious to anyone reading these comments that your theology is plain heretical goofy garbage.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 The saints in heaven aren't living? I though GOD was the GOD of Abraham, and the GOD of Jacob and the GOD of Isaac, and that he was also the GOD of the living not the dead.
gtepp031387 11 months ago
@gtepp031387. When I pray to the Father in Jesus' s name, will He still hear & answer my prayers even though I dont believe that my prayers go through the saints in heaven & then to the Father? Where do I stand as far as being heard and forgiven since the bible says to give our burdens to the Lord? Jesus said to give our burdens to Him. The living can help each other as Jesus told us to, BUT relying on saints in heaven to intercede is wrong. He also said to go into our "closets" & pray.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1 You don't have to pray through the saints... I never said that nor is that a teaching of the church. The simple fact is tho that they do interceed for us, and they are more rightious then us here on earth, and "the feverant prayer of the rightious person is very powerful" James 5:16. I have aproblem with you saying it is wrong tho, as anyone who has read the bible has prayed through the saints in psalms 103 and 148.
gtepp031387 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
"we must believe in the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus...."
really ? Since when did BELIEVE come to mean EAT ?
"The Holy Spirit helps us to "drink"...."
oh really ? So why does Jesus say "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him."
Is there anything in John 6 which even remotely implies that we should not EAT his flesh ? The original Greek word used is “trogo" which mean "gnaw" His flesh?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic, @icimblind. In John 6:63 Jesus explained His words in 6:53 to those around Him and us, He said it is not the flesh that profits but the Spirit that gives life and truth. In other words He was saying that if we take Jn 6:53 literal than it wont solve the problem of sin, the Holy Spirit teaches us that the problem was solved on the cross when real flesh and blood was broken and spilled for our salvation. He used eating&drinking to announce His supper to remember Him by.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@bornagainsaint1
You are correct but He was also saying this is literally his body and blood. That he was the Pass Over Meal of the New Covenant. Read the text.
icimblind 11 months ago
@abukid,
Clueless Heretic!
Tobit 12:12,Mark 12:25-27, Ephesians 6:18, Intercession examples – in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, there are examples of angels and dead prophets coming to intercede for humans on God's behalf.
John 6:53 Jesus said, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
This command was for every one. You do not obey Jesus Christ, and therefore You are a heretic & hypocrite!
icimblind 11 months ago
@icimblind Dingbats, that is why angels are called messenger. You have to talk to the boss before the messenger acts. Read Tobit 12:20. Mark 12 is about resurrection. Resurrection will not happen until Christ return. Ephesians 6 is an instruction for living saints. Your saints and my saints are different. Catholic saints are those people declared by your Pope. My saints are all true believers and followers of Christ, living or dead. Once a person becomes a child of God, they become saints.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
Where are YOUR saints? Show me and everyone else? LOL
BTW, you didn't address any of the passages. John 6:53?????????
icimblind 11 months ago
@icimblind There are millions around the world because Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations. Those born in the Sprit of Christ are saints. Not like yours. You have specific saints like Saints of Firemen, Saints of Unemployed, Saints of Miracle, Saints of Gardeners etc. Santo Muerte!
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
For all those millions you can't even name one.
Again, address John 6:53. You are being disobedient to Christ calling it a symbol.
icimblind 11 months ago
@icimblind Next time, can you do a blood type check and DNA check? You're looking at my name. There's one.
abukid 11 months ago
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@abukid
"Next time, can you do a blood type check and DNA check? You're looking at my name. There's one."
You a saint ? How many times do you insult God ? What do you mean by "saint" ? Are you already dead on earth ? Cause no one is talking about "saints on earth". Cummon answer. Name atleast one of saints in heaven.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@icimblind. The RCC is so focused on John 6:53 that it has forgotten what His blood sacrifice was and still is all about.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@icimblind John 6 is called last supper or communion. Communion celebrates the union of a person with Christ and as believers commemorate Christ’s gift of life.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
Commemorate?
It is the true presence of Christ. 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Where are Your saints?
icimblind 11 months ago
@abukid
"John 6 is called last supper"
Really ? why is it called the last supper ? How about the supper in Jn 13 ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@icimblind @DavidVelezPerez @wealththinkers @Archangel777Catholic Liars, is Jesus describing purgatory here?
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”
abukid 11 months ago
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@abukid
You filthy devil. Answer the question asked, rather than unloading your filth on youtube.
you said "John 6 is called last supper"
Really ? why is it called the last supper ? How about the supper in Jn 13 ? Answer that devil.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic You have no case against me. I knew not any Christian church who does not eat bread and drink wine. All do the last supper or communion or Eucharist. If Jesus said, do it in remembrance of Him. Then I do it. Jesus prayed to the Holy Father found in different books of the bible. How come you're disobedient and prays to human beings which no command from God is found in the bible. Disobedient child of the devil you are..
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid
"I knew not any Christian church "
Any Christian Church ? How many churches are there ? How many bodies do Jesus have ?
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
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@abukid. I dont know what to say, I am sorry that you are being called a devil.
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@MrJamesthecatholic. John 6 lead up to the Lord's(last) Supper where Jesus said "eat and drink my supper, do this in remembrance of me after I shed my blood for the sins of the world".
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
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@bornagainsaint1
"John 6 lead up to the Lord's(last) Supper where Jesus said "eat and drink my supper"
ok abukid the heretic did not say "LEAD UP" he said "it is the last supper"
In John 6 Jesus says ""Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" So do you have true life in you ? You dont unless you have eaten His blood and drunk his blood.
Please explain how you eat His flesh and drink His blood in light of the above.
MrJamesthecatholic 11 months ago
@wealththinkers @MrJamesthecatholic @Archangel777Catholic,
abukid is a lost soul. I just found his spam on other Christians channel that believe in the intercession of the saints. It is not just the Catholics who believe this as you know. Catholicism precedes his man made heretical faith by hundreds of yrs. There is no amount of biblical passages you can throw @ him that will convince him, nor will he answer those passages when they're presented to him.
In short he is a brain washed troll!
icimblind 11 months ago
@icimblind @wealththinkers @MrJamesthecatholic @Archangel777Catholic
1 Timothy 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid Thus Daniel gave up meat (as well as wine, another symbol of rejoicing), and Paul endorses the practice of temporary celibacy to engage in a special spiritual discipline of increased prayer (1 Cor. 7:5). By denying ourselves these good things we encourage an attitude of humility, free ourselves from dependence on them, cultivate the spiritual discipline of sacrifice, and remind ourselves of the importance of spiritual goods over earthly goods.
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@abukid In fact, if there was an important enough purpose, Paul recommended permanently giving up marriage and meat. Thus he himself was celibate (1 Cor. 7:8). He recommended the same for ministers (2 Tim. 2:3-4) and for the unmarried in order to devote themselves more fully to the Lord (1 Cor. 7:32-34), unless doing so would subject them to great temptations (1 Cor. 7:9). Similarly, he recommended giving up meat permanently if it would prevent others from sinning (1 Cor. 8:13).
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@abukid Since the Catholic Church requires abstinence from meat only on a temporary basis, it clearly does not regard meat is immoral. Instead, it regards it as the giving up of a good thing in order to attain a spiritual goal. So you tell me you never fasted? Jesus fasted Matthew 4:2, and he recommends fasting. "But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting" Matthew 17:19-21. Seems to me the abstaining from certain foods and sex is Biblical under the right conditions.
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@wealththinkers Put your thinking cap. You claim Peter as your founder. Yet Catholic church does opposite of what Peter did. Read Acts 10 (food) and and Matthew 8 (mother-in-law). Fasting is abstaining from all food, not certain food. Forbidding to marry is different from option to marry. You might as well re-read 1 Cor 8 for it is a suggestion so as not to offend a weak conscience brother.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid Yeah over and over again, I suppose you never saw 35But in every nation, he that feareth him, and worketh justice, is acceptable to him. Seems to me we are practicing exactly Peter did. Yep, food. I think what I posted stands pretty clear. Where does it say Fasting is from all food and not certain foods? Every Catholic has the option to marry including Clergy. If they choose.
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@abukid yea you are right, because of those who are week, it is in certain circumstances OK not to eat meat. that is what it says. Why do you deny it? If you brother decides to do sacrifice or fast from certain foods. why do you judge him. It is not you to judge your brother, or anyone else for that matter. Be careful. Matt 7
1Judge not, that you may not be judged, For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@abukid If you disagree with the authority of Peter and the Apostles, then you disagree with Christ who intentionally gave the authority. For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Matt 13:34. Question who did the Son of Man leave in authority?
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@wealththinkers Simple answer. Jesus is the master. Every true follower of Christ is His servant. Anyone who has true faith in Jesus and Jesus alone was given the promise of Holy Spirit to bind the enemy and loosen the blessing. Gates of hades cannot prevail the Holy Spirit who dwells in individuals that claims Christ as the Annointed One. Sorry to tell you. Many Christians does not believe that Peter alone got that authority. All of Jesus disciples got that authority even of today.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid You claim to believe in Bible alone, but these are your words, not the Bible, Be specific. 2nd, we are not the direct servant that the Lord gave authority too. Our authority only comes from Christ to the Apostles and then to us, who are baptized and follow his sayings and commandments. Remember, I follow Apostolic Tradition along with God's Word. Scripture provided if needed.
wealththinkers 11 months ago
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@wealththinkers Of course, it's my own word. I'm trying to explain myself. Authority is given to the children of God. Catholic church has no concept of children of God. That's why they insist they go to purgatory.
Rom 8:14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Rom 8:17—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ
Gal 3:26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
abukid 11 months ago
@abukid. GOOD POINT!!!
bornagainsaint1 11 months ago
@abukid Jesus gave this example 2000 years ago before he left, We were not alive to claim the authority for our selves. The Apostle were there and they were his servants. They were the ones given the power to bing and loose, they were the ones who received Christ sayings and commandments, and hand down those traditions to us through his Church.
wealththinkers 11 months ago
@wealththinkers Do you live in the back country and do you have TV at home? How come people get heal when someone pray for them in the name of Jesus Christ? Where do they get their authority? Answer, from the Holy Spirit. Your Popey D' Pharisee walks around with staff ala Moses as if going to a beauty pageant.
Luke 10:1 After this the Lord appointed 72 others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.
(cont 1)
abukid 11 months ago