5 of 5 Gary Taubes vs Dean Ornish - 7/26/2002

[lucasstarbuck]

Wow. 'A small hamburger, a small fries and a diet drink'.. welcome to an insulin spike, fat gain, oh and over time losing your ability to judge how many calories you've eaten (from the diet drink chemicals).

[helloelena]

If he Gary looks arrogant is because he has 3 closed minded, so-called scientists attacking his opinion after lots of research and outsider looking at the flaws of nutritional dogma. He has taken all the criticism for daring to ask "what if" and "prove it!". Good job Gary and thank you!

[crons79]

At 3:30 Gary starts dropping some serious knowledge. At 4:04 he starts a statement that is way ahead of its time. The woman starts shaking her head "no" at 4:14 in disapproval. Oh, and we should apparently all be eating off the dollar menu at McDonald's! (6:08) Amazing.

[VanessaTexasGal]

it may be possible that it all depends on the person. I have three friends who have done atkins, and they felt great, lost weight and kept it off. I have chosen to eat everything in moderation. About 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat, 1800-2200 calories a day, and I'm not overweight or hungry, and I'm making good progress in the gym, just like my friends on atkins. The only thing we have in common is eating a lot of vegetables.

[heart6562]

wow man!! Gary is right about diet there. the other people had blueberries in breakfast. how funny was that. and more funny is egg white omelett.. ha ha ha, y not whole egg!! because cholesterol dangers..cholesterol causes no problems. Gary rocks!!

[nonchalantd]

Gary Taubes may have come off as an ahole here, but he is the only one who is open-minded. The others are sure they're right, yet obesity rates have not changed at all even though people are trying harder than ever and go to the gym more than ever.

[Lixuzstatic]

I don't like Gary Taubes in regards to his reasoning skills but atleast he's not touting about cavemen and is sticking to nutritional science.

[Lixuzstatic]

Taubes repeatedly talks about studies on low calorie diets implying Ornish recommends one. Ornish has a book called "Eat more, weigh less". That seems to be his tactic along with the all other high fat gurus. They compare their diets to terrible high glycemic, low fibre, low calorie diets that sometimes aren't even that low in fat and claim their diet is the best.

[Entropy56]

So Gary does not deny that eating more calories than the body uses will turn into fat. He often denies the calories-in-calories-out model as wrong. But in the end, he has to agree with it. The real question is, WHY people take in more calories they can't burn or WHY they do not burn them.

[vestarainey]

oz looks sick, ornish looks like a big old suet pudding, and taubes looks healthy robust and lean I know for myself I never feel better then when I am on a high fat low carb diet and I have effortlessly lost 80 lbs in one year eating this way my lipid profile is better then it has been in years I am not longer pre-diabetic and I haven't increased my exersize at all calories in calories out cant be right, reading good calories bad calories saved my life thanks Gary!

[jezzieBell05]

Can't believe all the bacon munchers here that think Taube's slimy attitude was convincing.

[1imesub]

Vegan diet wins, hands down.

[jazzplayer9]

wow gary's breakfast was the healthiest.. no surprise i guess

[jazzplayer9]

No wonder that lady was so incoherent.. she probably was a hazy stupor from all the grains..

[jazzplayer9]

Gary looks the best out of all these people.

[tom360]

You heard it, Ornish is on Coke's and Pepsi's payroll.

[Kasrkin2003]

Never got the grains thing that ornish recommends, and fuck touching soy! I tried eating oats and grains, i got IBS and was constantly hungry. But if eat fats, eggs, meat, dairy (to a point) and i feel fine and full.

[MrTristam]

Gary Taubes is a legend, I thank him so much for having the courage to fight the system for science. I just wish he had support so we can kill the lipid hypothesis once and for all. I have epilepsy and no joke it wasn't until I was 28 and got on to the paleo diet that I can actually get things under control. When my brain hurts I binge on fats and oils and its the only thing that works. I recommend reading Mary Enig's book on the fundamentals... because especially for the brain they matter so m

[OutsidrArtst]

Gary Taubs has an ax to grind. He is less interested in pursuing knowledge than being "right."

[Jordonification]

There is no magic pill but there is a magic formula: 80/10/10.

[MichaelnChristine]

This woman goes from "Natural fruit and veg" which I agree with to grains which are decidedly unnatural to lean meat (also unnatural) to low fat dairy which doesn't exist in nature. How about we eat natural dairy, natural meat, natural fruit and veg and stay away from anything that is messed with?

[MichaelnChristine]

Don't the laws of thermodynamics apply to closed systems?

[mcmlxixtube]

...continued...sorry Dr. Ornish, I was a whole foods vegetarian and my health went to hell. Now I'm a whole foods carnivore and am in much better health. And even though your arguments seem reasoned and moderate, I know better from looking at myself and looking at you.

[mcmlxixtube]

Atkins led me to go from 22% BF down to 12%, my cholesterol dropped a LOT, my blood sugars stabilized, my arthritis disappeared, as did my brain fog, so naturally I'm in Taubes corner, but I think he comes across a a smug a-hole here. His other lectures are much better.

Howard comes across as someone who needs their name and an emergency contact phone number sewn in their clothes. And I have a beef with that whole "balanced" argument. Should toxins be part of that balance? That's what sugar is.

[Kasrkin2003]

@mcmlxixtube Yeah i take issue with the balanced arguement too, that's just their way of covering their bases, eat a bit of everything and you gotta get something right, right?

[slim491958]

Decide for yourself:

Gary Taubes looks lean, trim, and athletic ( and what does he eat to look this good?)

Dean Ornish looks fat, flabby, and about as muscular as a couch potato (and what did he do to get these awful looks?)

How do you want to look, like Gary (lean and healthy), or like Dean (fat and sick)?

[helltrackrider]

Been doing Paleo for three months now; Cock grew 4 inches...Take THAT Ornish!!!

[Dewillough]

People who naturally get fat should eat less carbs because these people's optimal sources of energy is from fats not carbs - my opinion. Also lots of protein is good.

Naturally thin people should eat carbs as this is their optimal source of energy.

[jojocatlady]

The whole show was lame. None of the participants presented a good argument for their recommendations. Poor Taubes just kept repeating the same thing. DIsappointing.

[Bestmoviealive]

@jojocatlady Because he didn't need to say anything else. He is right. Trust me.

[howzaou812]

The old hag is so ignorant. She looks confused half the time. You can see any time gary speaks she just wont accept anything he says. Such a dinosaur. Dr. Oz should make sure everybody has had breakfast ,lunch and Dinner before asking what they ate...Oops.

[aleterra]

The old lady's breakfast was just SUGAR: blueberries, whole grains, orange juice, and an oat snack ! Geez, this is the kind of advice the USDA is giving! A recipe for disaster.

[aleterra]

that was funny, Gary really kicked everybody's asses in that table.

[Nintendogamer95]

I laughed so hard at 7:23 - 7:33; "My message is americans need to eat in moderation. I had a glass of OJ this morning" dumb@ss, you know 1 glass of OJ = 6-8 oranges right?

[celtzcastle]

I thought the lady was reasonable when she advocated moderation, until she stated that her breakfast consisted of cereal and orange juice, and her snack was oatmeal! "Moderation" to me is 2 whole eggs, fish oil, and a piece of fruit for breakfast; and 1/2 piece of fruit plus almonds for snack; and a big piece of fish, salad with olive oil and vinegar, and a small piece of grainy, seedy, old-fashioned sourdough bread (which has GI=50) with nut butter, plus 1/2 piece of fruit for lunch...etc.

[celtzcastle]

Taubes hit the nail on the head: fat people are hungrier. The low-fat, or even moderate-fat diets don't address this. Fat slows digestion and makes the stomach feel fuller, while protein makes addresses "biochemical hunger." Carbs make people hungrier.

[pippi3993]

Why use drugs when you can cut carbs and eat more fat instead?

LCHF rules!

[mhyea]

poor lady...

[ultimatebjj]

Ornish ate blueberries and egg white omelette, but he still has a triple chin. He is overweight, so apparently he is not following his own diet advise or it just does not work. Barbara is a mess, I'll just leave it at that.

[howzaou812]

If you just watch the body language and shaking of heads of the panel other than Taubes, you can really see them struggling with not being able to let go. Its scary how people in the medical profession will hang on to what the learned (bad science) and not have an open mind and challenge conventional stupid wisdom. Gary always presents himself very objectively and scientific and keeps it to science. That's how you are supposed to be! Too bad egos and money play a factor. Bravo Gary!

[82Bdog]

@howzaou812 bad science is referencing atkins so much like taubes did when atkins never published a study and put it up for peer review...

[PibbXtra08]

the lady made me mad when she said she ate whole grain cereal and orange juice and suggested we drink diet soda

[mojo972]

Oz and Ornish are ludicrous, disingenuous muppets. With bad hair.

[Jzend001]

gary taubes is cute.

[mitasse]

she should have been eating more protein... maybe her right shoulder would not have collapsed!

[luetube]

"I recommend a diet that's balanced and moderate in all areas. Oh, today my diet was 100% carbohydrates."

[Lagunakid24]

@luetube

hahah so true I was thinking the same. She keeps talking about moderation and a balanced diet yet she states eating cereal and oatmeal, which are almost pure carbs and the orange juice.... don't even get me started

[MrJazzmattaz]

That lady is a DUMBASS with no evidence. Gary Taubes blows her out of the water with evidence, she is so vague and antiquated

[spencerdev91]

Just seeing Barbara shake her head not only is angering but it just shows people cling to beliefs and dont keep an open mind in the medical community. Very sad to see because this is who patients listen to. Gary is being a skeptic, he's not advocating any one thing he's just pointing out the data we know follow today is lacking in validity.

[jlund75]

Ornish and AHA both have SO much to lose if Gary is right. Gary is talking about studies and the assumptions people make about food that have not been proven.

[wclenney]

Interesting that:

3 months before the broadcast of this show, Dr. Atkins was hospitalized for a heart attack. No one knew this at the time of the broadcast.

9 months after the broadcast of this show, Dr. Atkins was dead from a "fall".

Source: New York Times (can't post link here)

[leviksu]

@wclenney What a wonderful ad hominem! This is the sort of thing you dogmatic people resort to when the science you advocate simply sucks.

[wclenney]

@leviksu I didn't attack the doctor, I merely pointed out two facts (according to the New York Times: (1) he suffered a heart attack and (2) he died from controversial injuries resulting from a fall. The ad hominem was you calling me dogmatic for advocating anything scientific.

[leviksu]

@wclenney No, you're attacking Taubes. You're not advocating anything scientific, only nonsensical correlation.

[wclenney]

@leviksu Wow... I love Gary Taubes. He is a maverick, and that is desperately needed in this field.

[bernlin2000]

@wclenney Sadly, he wasn't on the show: Gary Taubes is alive and well, actually doesn't seem to have aged that much at all since this broadcast 9 years ago. Also, he recently posted his lipid profile on his blog: his HDL is excellent and his LDL is within the recommended levels. And yes, he continues to eat the same kind of diet he was just starting to consider back in 2002: low carb, high fat

[Donal277]

Shocking watching the woman shaking her head when Taubes cites controlled studies which completely go against her. Watching back when we know more about Protein and satiety amongst others makes her view even more shocking.

[bernlin2000]

@Donal277 She's a nutrition dinosaur...low-fat diets have been debunked, and it doesn't matter if the carbs are whole-grain or "refined", if they're not reasonably fibrous then you're just eating straight out of the sugar jar, and we all know that's no good.

[Calidastas]

Gary: "There is a counter-theory that has never been tested". OK Gary, so I'm supposed to jump on board your counter theory that, as you just admitted, has never been tested. This guy is a classic book-shilling phoney.

[Donal277]

@Calidastas Its 2011. It has been tested now in controlled studies. Go check them out.

[slimmer13]

They are both correct (forget Dr. AHA). It's very simple...think about what our prehistoric ancestors ate: No ultra fat cow meat, no giant hybrid fruit, and alas, no sucrose. What Taubes fails to mention is that the second and third tier of the Atkin's pyramid contains low-glycemic veggies and fruits. If you're going to be successful on any diet, you first have to stabilize blood sugar. Lost 30 pounds doing Atkins 8 years ago and kept it off.

[timgillan]

Barbra is a walking contradiction. "Eat whole foods such as... lean meat, low fat products" How could low fat products be a natural product?! She also acknowledged refined carbs lead to weight gain yet low fat products are ALWAYS higher in refined carbs

[TheRedChai]

at 8:47 The data wasn't available back in 2002, but it is available now. Did you change your mind? Of course not, you dishonest a-hole.

[lonelymarker]

Ahahahaha...Coke sponsored the show!

[NomadRip]

@lonelymarker I was wondering if anyone else had it run past the credits to see that Coke sponsored the show :-D

[hans89]

"egg white omelette" poor man...

[bunnee777]

avoid HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP people!!!! ornish is right: avoid the simple processed carbs. protein overload has scary longterm risks.

taubes should stop interrupting the other speakers. also, wipe that smirk off his face!

[marktrenkle]

@bunnee777 when people just straight up lie, you want them to be called on it.

[larstbone1]

Having Oz host this discussion with his partner Ornish is a bit odd, and it shows in Oz's failure to adequately moderate the discussion. Especially giving Ornish the last lecture.

Healing from the Heart: A Leading Surgeon Combines Eastern and Western Traditions to Create the Medicine of the Future by Mehmet C. Oz and Dean Ornish (Paperback - Oct 1, 1999)

[gphx]

In one month I have lost 30 pounds and have tremendously improved my blood panels and pressure eating a low carb diet. Taubes and Atkins make important points. However, I replaced my carbs with healthy low carb vegetable choices. Replacing them with bacon just seems ridiculous. You make think I'm wrong but I didn't hear Taube mention vegetables once during the entire discussion. All he talked about was meat unless he was denigrating carbs. Of course a short interview is not representative.

[tazlmc]

Dean Ornish is an absolute embarrassment! and the broad... OMG

[PainefulMass]

AHA person shaking her head? Has she ever tried eating carbohydrates. Darned right it makes you hungrier. I used to eat a huge bowl of ("healthy") cereal in the morning and I was hungry in an hour or two. Now I eat two scrambled eggs (much, much smaller) and I stay full for four hours or more.

[pxxner]

@PainefulMass My normal breakfast for nearly my whole life was a bowl of cereal with skim milk. Within 2 hours I would be hungry again, like stomach growling hungry. The past two days I had scrambled eggs with ham and a little cheddar, and I wasn't hungry for 4 hours each day.

[auggiedoggy]

@PainefulMass : I can eat a bowl of oatmeal (I prefer steel-cut oats) and not feel hungry for 4-5 hours. The oatmeal provides 300 calories plus a 1/2 cup of low-fat (1%) milk. I may add some sliced almonds or crushed walnuts. This meal doesn't exceed 500 calories yet it keeps me going for up to 5 hours. I used to eat a three-egg omelette for breakfast, no home fries and no toast (but had sliced tomatoes on the side) and it would also keep me satisfied for 5 hours.

[millsy1987]

@PainefulMass Ha. Thats why she had to have the oatmeal snack when she got to the interview.

[ALucas73]

had they discovered grehlin and leptin yet in 2002?

[anoteoftruth]

as soon as he said, "you can eat soy protein, you dont need to eat bacon and eggs", I knew he was a idiot for sure.

Soy protein is a ton more harmful (especially to guys) than eggs.

[newy219]

@anoteoftruth yeah and then at the end he said he had an egg white omelette. what a dumbass to not eat the yolk

[gphx]

@anoteoftruth Yeah those centuries worth of Chinese, Japanese and others eating lifetimes full of tofu and haven't almost no heart disease or diabetes must be really stupid compared to obese Americans.

[HelloImMrMarr]

@gphx Is that supposed to be a jab? Centuries ago, nobody GM'd the soy. There were no patents on it, and they surely didn't eat soy isolate protein powder. And yes, asian countries do have lower rates of obesity (though rising rapidly) than americans. Mostly because up untill recently, they have had little to no refined carbs or sugars in their diets. Similar to us before that later half of the last century, before our epidemics started growing. Like China's is now.

[gphx]

@HelloImMrMarrWhat you say about the carbohydrate changes in Asian diets and the resulting problems agrees with the evidence I've seen. But you really jumped the gun on the soy thing. Ornish just said 'soy' which can mean many things from tofu to raw soybeans grown in one's own garden. To jump straight to GMO soy isolate has less to do with what he said and more to do with what you think he said.

[HelloImMrMarr]

@gphx Well pretty much every Soy product we can get here in Canada or US, is from GMO soy crops.  In asia, maybe it's different. Your right, my first knee jerk assumption when he said "soy protein", was soy protein powder (soy isolate, again from gmo crops.) If he meant soy milk (also from gmo's in NA, as well as usually heavily sweetened, not always, but almost always contains added preservatives anyway.) than I don't see how thats a lot better. Not to mention it increases estrogen in men.

[gphx]

@HelloImMrMarr Thanks for explaining your viewpoint further. I had a knee jerk reaction myself based not upon what you said but the idea the dog has peed in every puddle. These days it seems If we eliminate everything we're told is bad for us there's nothing left. I'm not sure if things are worse than they've ever, ever been or we have too much information in today's world. Maybe my take on that varies with what I'm able to handle on a given day. You make valid points.

[HelloImMrMarr]

@gphx I also think, once someone says "soy is good", people automatically think everything soy based is good for them... soy milk, soy protein powders, soy protein bars, if it's soy than it must be a health food right? Wrong. Anyways, besides that bit, I do agree on what you said mostly.. I lost 25 pnds in 2 months on a atkins related diet.. I do eat bacon everyday, but I also eat a ton of green vegetables, which are even more important to me.

[gphx]

@HelloImMrMarr Sounds like we share a lot of things in common including frustration and a passion for low carb diets high in health vegetables. More power to you. Be as well as you can be.

[snifflesmarie]

I know whose breakfast choice I would have! Gary Taubes wins hands down - the others are just rediculous - wake up Western world, sit up and follow Gary's advice it really is the only way forward. I think Barbara from the American Health Association will one day have to eat her own words - she is so very wrong! Go Gary!

Lettherebehealth

[SuperSissydog1]

I like the end where they all tell us about what they ate for Breakfast, Dr. Oz had an Atkins approved snack. Way to go Memeht!

[rsbutz1]

my god-small hamburger-small fries and diet drink at a fast food joint and thats healthy?

Please do us a favor ands top talking barbara.

[machackertk]

people's metabolic types vary. there is not one diet fits all and certain people do better on certain diets end of story.

[Darkrider6970]

She means the first law of thermodynamics... haha. And the bitch is actually the one who is most on the ball with the truth.

[AAAjohn123]

Ok took the time to listen to a few of your lectures Mr Taubes and discovered that although you seem to know a lot about this subject, you are sadly a terrible communicator of the main point you are trying to make. (Even though you are a journalist). I now understand that you don't actually disagree with anything; you are just trying to get the science community to look closer at what we call the facts. Point taken! It may help you if you stick to your main point and respect the pioneers efforts

[AAAjohn123]

Question for Dr Ornish; how do you even talk directly to an idiot who trying to belittle your passionate well founded research? that is now changing the lives of those who simply apply it and discover the truth for themselves. (People like me) Thank you!!

And had Mr Taubes have been a good journalist and done some actual research he may have reconsidered even attempting to make someone like me believe in something that would have surely killed me by now.

[AAAjohn123]

...Question for Miss Howards; What if we looked closer at the psychological reasons as to why parents can't get their lazy fat duffs out of the chair in front of the TV and take their fat lazy kids for a simple walk from time to time?

[AAAjohn123]

Question for Taubes; What if the world is really square and people are not really as stupid as to ask for a BigMac large fries and a diet coke then wonder why they are not losing weight ?...

[dscheller77]

lol the smallest portion at a fast food restaurant is ok. get the fuck outta here

[dscheller77]

The american heart association is about 50 years behind

[kekoa1313]

I'm confused.....but I will read Gary's book because the fact is ...as he said.... that obesity is epidemic ......so what the AMA or surgeon general are telling us is not working...

[karmuppet]

if you are insulin sensitive/resistant you will suffer both mentally and physically from too many carbs. and too many carbs(per meal) might not be many. i know from personal experience. i eat high fat low carb because that is what works for me. everyone has to figure it out for themselves. it's not one size fits all.

i'll take heart disease and a shorter life span for quality of life today.(if high fat is a problem)

[TheBeefsister]

I've said this before, and I'll say this again: for as supposedly healthy Dean eats, he doesn't look very healthy. Holy cow, his hair. I want to put conditioner in it.

[Nakutao]

@TheBeefsister lol

[SuperSissydog1]

@TheBeefsister

Maybe he should eat more saturated fat, it would help his skin and hair.

[Pelonetillo]

lol @ barbara

[andriusj7]

AHA Dr. statement about Mcdonalds, clearly shows that AHA get funding for those big componies , in other words their lips are tightly glued to McDonald rear side.

[yoyobran]

Isn't it funny how Gary Taubes, who supposedly eats the most "unhealthy" out of the three panelists, is the leanest? And Ornish, who is all about his egg white omelets (because God forbid we eat any of the nutrient-rich yolks) looks like a sack of flab?

[efzt]

@yoyobran I really like Gary but to be fair he is alot younger.

[mrkitanai1]

@yoyobran Your statement is very ignorant. I used to be a tutor for Divison 1 college football players - many of them would come to my office with a 20oz Coke and a bag of Cheetos, yet they would be lean, muscular, and ripped to shreds. What you need to look at is WHO backs up what they say by doing research themselves. And,of the 3 panelist, Dean Ornish is BY FAR, the most accomplished and well-respected researcher AND physician.

[jordanbuckelew]

I love love love Gary Taubes.

I almost feel bad for Barbara. She obviously completely goes along with "conventional wisdom" and really doesn't have anything to offer here. I found myself saying "aww" whenever she would.

Ornish is a tool and frankly I think he looks terrible. His agenda is being right and his argument is weak at best.

[hkgarner]

@jordanbuckelew how is his argument weak? he is the only one with evidence. your love taubes is prob messing with your logic.

[Awaitingcertainty]

Watch Taubes at 3:20 onwards - THIS is what he tells about in his book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which came out in 2007 (reissued in the Anchor Edition in 2008 with an Afterword). It is an INCREDIBLE book. He spent 5 years "researching the research." I'm on lo-carb, next to NO sugar for life! You get incredible energy burning fat. You can DRINK heavy cream: zero carbs, zero sugar.  I'm not only losing weight on Atkins, but feeling incredible ENERGY which they call Atkins euphoria.

[Awaitingcertainty]

I wish I had facial recognition software so I could just watch the Taubes parts of this discussion.

[spontaneousmixx]

@DeanOrnish you're an idiot

[Kanes4life]

Taubes has a degree in physics and an MS in aerospace engineering. I admire his humility and calm here.

[Brookesy12007]

Why have the Atkins people done no studies? You think they would be running out to prove their point if they are so sure they have the cure!! Yet Gary seems happy to just argue that as we have no data. He should get some and then come back.

[Awaitingcertainty]

@Brookesy12007 asks why the Atkins people have done no studies. The latest Atkins book publishes them. But to the point, please note, from Taubes' book, p. 52: "To be a dissenter was to be unfunded because the peer-review system rewards conformity and excludes criticism." George Mann, N.E. Journal of Medicine, 1977

[TerrorBlack]

@Awaitingcertainty OH wow. A youtube comment with citations. That's a first for me.

[cokburn625]

Taubes clearly won this argument... he made Hornish look like a fool with that bogus study that he kept talking about, or actually I should say Hornish embarassed himself by continually bringing it up, it clearly wasn't done well, i think he even admitted that at one point. Victory: Taubes. I won't even mention the AHA woman lol

By the way, at no point in human history have people eaten low saturated fat diets, until recently, and we are probably the fattest, most unhealthy society ever

[hkgarner]

@cokburn625 Taubes has no evidence throughout, how do he win? *Ornish has abundant evidence. "At no point in human history have people ate low saturated fat diets" the reason we were able to expand across the globe was because of the numerous starch, such as rice, potatoes and barley available. Its in the history. use common sense, too...I mean we are just now efficient enough to grow grains AND feed them to animals to eat the animals..fact is for most of human existence has survived on starches

[dressedtosmellgood]

@hkgarner "fact is for most of human existence has survived on starches" humans only developed agriculture about 10,000 years ago. Unless you are biblical fundamentalist, you must wonder what humankind did for thousands and thousands of years prior. Do you really think people were walking around foraging for berries and tubers in the middle of january? The only food that is available year round is meat.

[therunningpianist42]

The AHA representative was so narrow-minded. Also, the breakfast she described was pretty unhealthy besides the blueberries. Cereal extruded at high heats and temperatures- with nutrient-depleted, pasteurized orange juice.

[ziyouduan]

The manner in which Dr. Howard conducted herself in this debate proved to me two things: (1) Most medical doctors lack training in how to conduct scientific study; (2) We shouldn't put too much trust in AHA.

[PencilsAreAwesome]

@ziyouduan With some exceptions, medical doctors are experts in putting their finger up an ass and feeling about for bumps, etc., but piss poor scientists.

Note: I said with exceptions.

[Kanes4life]

@ziyouduan Your first point is excellent and very true. Most ppl deify doctors and fail to realize an important truth - medical practitioners are NOT scientists. They are, like many other professionals, ppl that have learned a set of skills and apply them.

Why ppl take nutrition and exercise advice from regular doctors is beyond me. Especially today, where the level of specialization is even higher.

[superheronumber1]

@ziyouduan of course not, you know you cannot trust the AHA when you see their fraudulent approvals sprinkled over highly processed junk foods in the supermarket.

[lazur1]

its almost 8 years later, and McDonald's is selling more HFCS-laden 'food' & sauces than ever.

[Metqa]

4:17 shaking her head. she can't even conceive of thinking differently for one moment.

Taubes has looked at the data, and they refuse to.

Ornish couldn't stick with the one sentence finish.

How can the study be not true when the evidence is right there, all you gotta do is look at it and think. Thinking is the key action.

[Dylvente]

I think the woman is too dismissive of Taubes's theory that carbs encourage weight gain by making people hungrier. I think this is especially true with refined carbs. Fat and protein would seem to be more filling and less likely to induce overeating. Otherwise I think the woman made very good points. So did Dr. Ornish. But they didn't make a good case that saturated fat is the problem. It could be more trans fats plus simple carbs that made heart disease more common.

[bakaboy100]

I am shocked that Taubes is attacked for simply saying that there needs to be more research done. Certainly he has his own views on the reasons for obesity , as do the others, but I would argue that he is more reserved in his opinion than the other two guests. I also though that Ornish was given, or took, the lion's share of the total interview.

[Catherine8here]

I feel sorry for Gary... he must of been so damn frustrated... I am sick of listening to the same bable and Gary offers something new and he hardly gets a chance to speak. I know that low calorie diets and low fat diets don't work. I know that the High fat, medium protein, low carb (like 20-35g) works like magic!

[jsunrise]

The AHA Dr. is pretty pathetic, talk about being stuck in a paradigm.

[Kanes4life]

@jsunrise She is government. If the policy is about being in the middle, you are basically not going out on the limb and exposing your ass. It's CYA at its finest.

[spontaneousmixx]

@jsunrise I wonder if Barb has heart disease now

[SuperSissydog1]

@jsunrise

Darn right "The AHA Dr. is pretty pathetic" - Lucky for the diabetics out there she does not work for them - she is dismissing out of hand a diet that can reverse type II diabetes without medication.

[jlund75]

@jsunrise Her and her paradigm friends are running this country. Scary.

[SnapeSoul]

Hahaha, I REALLY enjoyed this! ;P I want to point something out, though...look at the appearance of each of the speakers. Dean Ornish looks the part of an herbivore, Gary Taubes that of a carnivore, and Barbara Howard that of an omnivore. Is this a result of their diet, or do you think it MAYYY have just been a genetic predisposition to eating a certain way? ;P Hmmmmmmmmmm. xP

[lazur1]

Or was 'looking the part' the reason they were chosen to be on the show?