@thepunisher1129 Well my book that which was inspired by another LDS Leader will be out soon "A Marvelous Work With My Blender: Ode To The Perfect Margarita" Thanks Le Grand Richards for your insperation.
Jo Smith claimed the Book of Mormon was recorded in 'Reformed Egyptian' by Mormon upon Golden plates. Jo claimed Mormon spoke Hebrew, but decided to use Reformed Egyptian as writing in Hebrew was tedious and took up too much room on the plates. LDS PEOPLE.. use the brains that God gave you... are you really that gullible?
NEVER ask a MORMON to do factual and historical research, it's not a natural undertaking they are accustomed to. Mormons can only handle being told facts in ways that make them feel nice and which don't threaten their status quo.
state facts .. your argument, indeed your position is impotent without them. Paraphrasing the church is true is worthless without fact... form your argument with facts.... it makes for credibility.
@54v115 I know this guy lies. Just read his website or watch his videos. One example of his stupidity is claiming Joseph could not have carried the plates because they were too heavy. God can make anything happen.
@LDStothecore So you claim this guy lies and you example is that he is stupid? He shows facts how it is impossible to do what Joseph Smith claimed to have done, yes if God was involved it would be possible but where did Joseph ever claim that point? If God was acting in your life like that wouldn't you point that out or would you take all the credit?
@LDStothecore So it is his opinion that a man cannot run at full speed through a forest for miles carrying a 80+ weight then fight off robbers? I surpose you have done this many times right? this is just a opinion right? even though he shows and demonstraights this with equal conditions?
Please take the blinders off my friend, the enemy has you in his power and you are following false gods!
@LDStothecore You are correct, but it does not take an expert to understand how much gold weighs. Thank you, I will use spell check, sorry if you had troubles understanding what I said.
@LDStothecore - God can make anything happen I agree with you there. But when one presents rationale head to head with a belief system, the belief system always wins the day. Did God make Lucy super strong too? It's a valid question. Did Joseph claim superhuman strength in his account? Check it out.. and when you have facts.. you can refute any claims with bona fide fact. Relying on details, real or imagined, resting in a belief system is no refutation.
@LDStothecore - Is this found in the Bible: The Book of Mormon states that God created the heavens and the earth, yet they teach that he was born a man on some planet out in the universe that already existed and that he has a mother and father who had a mother and father and so on back in time. Yet, how then could their god be the creator of the universe in which he was born into and only after a human life was exalted to becoming a god? The Mormon doctrine and belief system is not Christian.
@LDStothecore - ohhh dear... The Bible states and demonstrates what makes a Christian. so I'm very happy to be sad... Pick up a Bible and do some learning, instead of making tired pedestrian noises. By the way... rather than show the world your true quality.. or lack of it.. try addressing the question.....
@54v115 Give me a reference from the Bible. And as for your questions, we don't have all the answers. We never claimed to. Some things we won't know for a long time.
@LDStothecore - why can't you be bothered?.. why do you guys always want someone else to do the work and thinking for you? You guys always claim to read the Bible, and somehow you always manage to miss or bypass using erroneous verse out of context or blatantly ignore key Christian concepts and teaching. Why is that?
@LDStothecore .. The Bible Canon states in it's entirety and demonstrates the standard -
If you want to be considered a Christian based on what the Bible says, then it is necessary to believe that the Bible Canon in it's entirety has been inspired by God Himself, and not as words of man, and says exactly what He wants it to say..of course, you think 'a' verse will prove all, or 'a' verse doesn't prove all out of convenience... that's because you don't understand what you may read in the Bible.
@LDStothecore I have to respond here, every conversation we have ever had you have never, not one time, given me Biblical references. So Mr. Hypocrite, please stop using this defense unless you want to give Biblical references.
Sorry for being so blunt but the truth sometimes hurts.
@LDStothecore You cannot accept the answer without the Holy Spirit, for without the truth in you you cannot accept the truth my friend. We could take your hand and physically show you but without the truth in you (the Holy Spirit) you will never accept or understand the answer. I feel very sorry for you, for by you making these comments it clearly shows that you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. I am very sorry!
@LDStothecore lol.. you still want someone else to do the work for you. Evidence nothing.. As God created the heavens and the earth, you teach that he was born a man on some planet out in the universe that already existed and that he has a mother and father who had a mother and father and so on back in time. Yet, how then could their god be the creator of the universe in which he was born into and only after a human life was exalted to becoming a god? What's your answer?
@LDStothecore I have stated that the Bible in it's entirety demonstrates and bounds the standard required to be a christian. You believe that the Jesus of the Bible is the SAME jesus that you believe in. He isn't. Jesus is our Saviour and our Creator, he is not the same as us and therefore cannot be our literal brother. You use the same words but your definitions and meanings are not the same as in Christian doctrine. You want one verse? We both know there isn't one verse.
@54v115 You are just all the rest of the ridiculous antis. You spout your own INTERPRETATIONS, with no scriptures to back it up. You really should sew your lips together as well as your fingers and keep quiet if you have no way to respond or you refuse to.
@LDStothecore So says the guy who has answered nothing.. addressed no question put to him. Can offer no verse to support his own inference. My interpretations as you put them, are backed by two thousand years of Christian doctrine which is complete, apostolic interpretation, concur with over a billion other Christians.. what do you propose?.. Absolutely Nothing! Nothing to add - zip! Try learning what the Biblical scriptures are, who they represent, and why it's a road map, what they define...
@LDStothecore Try to understand if it's not too much of a stretch for you, that THE Bible defines what it takes to be Christian (not a verse) and how to be Christian (not a verse), in their entirety. A Christian's belief cannot, must not deviate from the Biblical doctrine of Jesus Christ. You want a verse?.. provide it big man.. I never claimed a verse.. if you cannot and If you cannot disprove the above.. you're running your mouth...and that's about all you are running. Yah suspect!
@54v115 If the Bible explains it, then you should be able to tell me where. Seems you don't know. You idiots are always demanding proof for our beliefs, but now that someone asks you to prove your belief, you are unable. Get a real life.
@LDStothecore If the Bible explains it..lol..lol... you really are a moron and you are obviously not Christian. If you were.. you'd know that the Bible Canon sets out exactly what it takes to be a Christian. Try reading the whole thing.. I demand nothing.. Jesus Christ demands you adhere to certain things and that doesn't waver because you can't be bothered to do your own study.. you need things explained to you and you've abdicated the ability to think, let alone comprehend..lol..lol.
@LDStothecore Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Please do not insult, this shows us that the Holy Spirit is not in you. Please, please seek the truth, the truth is not in you my friend!
@LDStothecore We have told you but you refuse the truth. You see you and other LDS are after the flesh (Joseph Smith) and the law and do not have the Spirit in you (Romans 8:5-9). You also like to provoke people with lies (Galatians 5:24-26). The LDS do not have an understanding of the Cross or how important it is (Philippians 3:18-19). Just because you cannot understand what I am saying does not mean I do not bring Gods truth to you (1 Corinthians 14:2), seek the truth my friend!
@LDStothecore I believe that you do place your faith in Christ but your Christ is not the Christ of the Bible but of Joseph Smith. Did your Christ create everything including satan (Colossians 1:16-17) or is satan his brother?
Please my friend, seek the truth, you will not find it under the bonds of Mormonsim.
@LDStothecore My guess is that you need a fable, or how about a parable?.. perhaps that better suits your intellect. How many times do I have to say it to you?.. How many? HOW MANY? You're like a little robot who can't get beyond it's simple algorithm.. You're required to do a little reading and a little thinking, and all you can muster is where is the verse...lol..loll... what a robot!!!...lol Me shut up.. I don't think so ... lol
@LDStothecore - Try looking at the Bible Fred... you believe in a stone age story with an amalgam of metals for weaponry thrown in to boot. lol .. LOL...
@LDStothecore - LDS don't trust the bible do you? that's why you don't appreciate what it is, what it stands for, who the key players are, you wouldn't recognise Jesus of the Bible if you compared him with your jesus. You probably use the Joseph Smith version (JST) of the Bible? What did God say about messing with the Bible about adding or taking away? Is any of this familiar? Actually stay away from parables you don't understand the meaning of clear plain English.
@54v115 We do know what the Bible stands for, etc. It is all about Christ. You complaint about adding or taking away has been refuted even by anti-Mormons. You don't understand it, so your credibility is gone.
@LDStothecore ..lol.. this coming from a guy who believes a conman saw the face of God and who then planned to sell and profit from the story or ONE of the many versions of it... you really need to get some facts in your belief system pal...lol The BIBLE says states quite the contrary to your pedestrian claims...lol.. refuted claims.lol..lol . what a load of crap..lol..lol...
@LDStothecore - I have many other words if you prefer.. Joseph Smith was convicted in a court of law as being a disorderly person and an imposter.... for Joseph Smith's 1826 Conviction see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 501... seems you're a little short on your own education. I have to prove nothing at all to you, as you've shown yourself to be completely ignorant of your OWN MORMON belief system and the conman Jo Smith who fronted it, let alone bona fide Biblical Christianity. You prove it
@LDStothecore Simple The Bible says One God (Mark 12:32; Isaiah 44:8) and He created the Heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1) vs Mormonism which teachs separate gods like the Holy Spirit did not create the heavens as in Alma 18:26-29 so the Holy Spirit is not the same God as the creator of the Heavens? Alma did not tell Lamoni that yes the Holy Spirit created the heavens only what heaven was.
Side note v35 shows the spirit is in us by faith not works, just saying.
@LDStothecore lol.. lol... you mean the JST? lol..lol.. the Jo's Bible version your own branch of mormonism decided to re-work because they couldn't trust Jo's revelation?...lol..lol... do some home work instead of going to social events... lol
@LDStothecore - You do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Jesus Christ was not our Brother. He is our Creator (Colossians 1:16–17, Revelation 1:8, 17–18, cf. Isaiah 44:6). I believe in Jesus our Creator who is of the Bible Canon. Therefore I am Christian and as you do not believe in the same Jesus, then you can't be christian can you? Simple propositional logic. You really need to appreciate what Canonization means in terms of fullness and demonstration ...
@LDStothecore Actually God is supreme, I can only speak for myself when I say God leads Christians through the Holy Spirit to bring the TRUTH to the lost and the victims of the enemy, Satan.
@LDStothecore Well I have answered like I have said many times, maybe some scripture will help. Read Romans 8:14 & Galatians 5:18, you see we (true Christians) have the Holy Spirit in us and it effects us internally as well as externally, a true Christian is shown by their actions as James tells us. I know the Holy Spirit leads me every day! (Thank you God!!!)
Take care and please keep seeking the truth, one day you will find it when you receive the Holy Spirit!
To all Christians who are trying to communicate the truth the LDS, this is exactly what they do to try to steer you away from the true path of showing them their false path. They try to ask a question (of course they will not answer any of your questions) that they do not know the answer to and thus will not accept your answers. I believe this is a sign of when God has hardened their hearts and thus there is no point in bringing the truth to them for they do not have the truth in them.
@LDStothecore Your question "how someone knows they are being lead by the Spirit" the answer was given 10+ times, it is by their actions caused by the Holy Spirit leading/guiding you in your life. You will know this by how the once normal poor choices would affect you not with the Holy Spirit in you the same choices effect you different. Before you sinned against man and with the Holy Spirit you sin against God.
@Exodus314IAM This is the first time you have at least attempted to answer this, but it makes no sense. If two people tell you different things, how do you know if they speak by the Spirit?
@LDStothecore That is a simple question, the Bible! If someone claims to be lead by the Holy Spirit yet does or says things contrary to what God word says then we know they are not being lead by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16-17). A good example is if someone teaches there are many gods, people can become gods, there is a goddess mother in heaven and such they are not speaking by the Holy Spirit since the Bible clearly does not support these teachings.
@Exodus314IAM I see you will never answer. This is you: "And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible."
@LDStothecore "a bible"? Well it is actually THE BIBLE! The Bible is the only book of God that is Archaeological, Scientifically, and prophetically accurate and proven. NO other book that claims to be the inspired word of God can claim this...NONE. Just the fact that you would put down the Bible shows how little you know about if and worst of all how much you do not trust it.
@LDStothecore Yes I am, the best way is to link you some proof, wwwDOTchristcenteredmallDOTcom/discoveries/noahs-ark
Also look up Sodom and Gomorrah, the Hittites, Jericho, Haran, Hazor, Dan, Megiddo, Shechem, Samaria, Shiloh, Gezer, Gibeah, Beth Shemesh, Beth Shean, Beersheba, Lachish, etc.
@LDStothecore That is because you choose not to see my friend. I am so sorry that God is not in you and you do not understand the truth. The Truth will set you free.
Seek the truth my friend please, God loves you and want you to become His child!
@LDStothecore Really? that is your response? I was hoping you could do a little better, but sorry to say the truth is not in you and you have no idea about the Bible or do you have any faith in it. You put 100% of your faith in books that contradict each other also that have not one piece of proof in any way what so ever.
Have you tested "the New World Translation" or the "Quran" in the same way you have tested the Book of Mormon or any other writings of Mormonism?
LDS/Mormon Church officially teaches in it's own scripture that if a Mormon, who they claim are Christians, kills/murders, there is NO forgiveness in this world or in the next world/afterlife- Doctrine & Covenants 42:18; 132:27. That denies 1 John 1:9- the Christian God cleanses a Christian from "ALL unrighteousness". For ALL sin, not just the ones the Mormon God says. LDS use word atonement alot, but radically different than the NT doctrine. LDS Church is NOT the New Testament church restored
LDStothecore - "tearing OTHERS down"? Again, you MUST be saying that about Paul (Galatians, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9), etc. The fact is that, notwithstanding your unwillingness to figure it out, that if someone is a Christian, believes Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4,13-15, they want to dedicate their lives to reaching others who they believe are in a damning false religion. Part-time can only do so much, research so much, and speak so much. FT gives more time.
LDStothecore - You are a nasty, insulting, rude little tart & he can back his words up, while you bear false witness & smear. Of course, it is a 'drive-by' smear - no content, just insulting assertion. Are you a liberal? They are good at that far too many times, and others adopt their dishonest tactics - like you.
@harry4health I have seen him and many anti-Mormons on TV. I have yet to see one that was honest about what they say. They are all rude, condescending, mocking people that rarely talk about Christ. Say what you like about me, but I speak the truth.
LDStothecore - No, you speak from partial *+& bias opinions. I have read & seen LDS who are nasty, condescending, etc- it cuts both ways. You also di=idn't back UR opinions up. IF U knew enough about McKeever here, U would know he is NOT nasty, rude, etc. U bear false witness & R stubborn. U overgeneralize & U do NOT speak the truth since U broad swipe & don't prove ALL critics are as you assert. Some are, but then again, not all are. I have seen LDS & LDS Church not being honest or upfront.
@harry4health Every one I have seen, including McKeever, lies, mocks, doesn't tell the whole story. Again, it's rare that they speak about Christ, which is the purpose of the LDS Church, to bring souls unto Him.
LDStothecore - In obeying Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9, Rev 2:2, etc., that means many issues will be covered. When Jesus is covered the differences between the biblical Jesus & LDS Jesus is shown. LDS Church does not just 'preach Jesus'. U preach that no one else is a part of the true church, no one else has divine authority, all other churches are apostate, their professors are corrupt & so on. U seek to convert ALL U can from OTHER churches. LDS Church is set up to denounce-even if w/ a nice face
LDStothecore - That sn't addressing the issue. YOU said 'we' 'tear down' the LDS Church. I countered that YOUR church has done it since it's very inception, from the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 14) Smith until now. LDS Church just has a softer public presentation. From apostasy of the church to diverting to gospel/authority lost. The fact is that it is a double standard for LDS like U to complain about others when U do it to ALL others & seek to convert ALL from ALL OTHER churches to only yours
@harry4health This argument is ridiculous. We are the only true church, true. However, anti-Mormons make a living by tearing us down. They research everything they can, spend years looking for anything to attack, write books against us, have TV shows against us, etc. We do NONE of that.
LDStothecore - No, the LDS Church's message is that ALL churches apostate, all creeds abomination, the professros of it are corrupt, no one else is a part of true church or has authority to baptize,give communion & clergy are invalid. THAT is your message. Christians write to defend their faith against LDS attacks & obey Titus 1:9, Eph 5:10-11. My poinyts are factual- U want me to give LDS Church references? JS-H 1:19, D&C 1:30, Article of Faith, Book of Mormon 1 Nephi 13 & 14, etc.
@LDStothecore - U ignored all of my accurate explaining of FULLER LDS Church message. U evading & dodging what is in LDS Church's missioinary book, Preach My Gospel, what's been in the missionary discussions for decades & more, JS-H 1:19, BOM:1 Nephi 13-14 doesn't erase the facts.U preach a Christ that is 1 of many Gods, became A God, didn't atone 4 all sin (D&C 42), paid for 'sin mostly in Gethesemane (Romney, Ensign, D&C 19)& said all churches false & professors corrupt-only LDS have authority
LDStothecore - U ignored everything. I gave specifics showing U incorrect & U addressed nothing. ALL missionary discussions have MUCH more than just the 'come unto Christ'. Even THAT is connected to becoming Mormon. LDS Church's missionary book, Preach My Gospel & past missionary discussions, JS-H 1:19, etc
Bible doesn't teach LDS Church as the only true church. ALL Christians=church. LDS apostles & prophets NOT NT models, NT priesthood is not some LDS males only, but ALL Christians- 1 Pet 2:5-9
@harry4health The Bible does teach one faith, one Lord, one baptism, not thousands. Give me a list of specifics you want addressed. You can email them if you want.
LDStothecore - UR problem: U repeat 1 sliver of 1 verse & don't think it through. U didn't use the Bible to know what it means, but how can U use it for a pretext. Can someone have faith without an organization? YES. Can people have faith in Jesus or God the Father in different churches? YES. One LORD doesn't say anything about have to be member of same ORG. Baptism-water happens in most churches, and 1 Cor 12:13 Paul says a SPIRITUAL baptism places one in the body/church-"BY" the Holy Spirit.
@harry4health Be more specific about the D&C. What verses? Also, why do you think Jesus bled from every pore in the Garden? Joseph Smith History is correct.
LDStothecore: D&C 42:18-To LDS who "kill": NO forgiveness in this life or afterlife. LDS Jesus didn't pay for ALL sin
Jesus in Gethsemane: U need to research outside LDSism. Oldest&best manuscripts don't have verse with sweat/blood. Also, if LDS would read closely, verse in Luke says it was SWEAT, and the SWEAT was LIKE blood. Doesn't say actual blood. Medical-one CAN sweat some blood, though rare. NOTHING to do w/atoning: Hematidosis. NT ALWAYS says atoned thru BLOOD of CROSS-1 Cor 15/Col 1:20
LDStothecore - Added points: 1) The NT does NOT say he BLED from EVERY pore. That is LDS scripture. NT Luke says he SWEAT (in less reliable manuscripts that even have sweat like blood). 2) Joseph Smith's History is false. It was reworked on First Vision & some other places in JS-History 1 in PofGPrice. Earliest 1st Vision account(s?) do not even have the anti-Christian 'bashing' verse (I used anti/bashing, since many LDS love to emotionally charge the sharing of disagreements in that way)
LDS/Mormon Church officially teaches in it's own scripture that if a Mormon, who they claim are Christians, kills/murders, there is NO forgiveness in this world or in the next world/afterlife- Doctrine & Covenants 42:18; 132:27. That denies 1 John 1:9- the Christian God cleanses a Christian from "ALL unrighteousness". For ALL sin, not just the ones the Mormon God says. LDS use word atonement alot, but radically different than the NT doctrine. LDS Church is NOT the New Testament church restored
LDStothecore - No, the LDS Church's message is that ALL churches apostate, all creeds abomination, the professors of it are corrupt, no one else is a part of true church or has authority to baptize,give communion & clergy are invalid. THAT is your message. Christians write to defend their faith against LDS attacks & obey Titus 1:9, Eph 5:10-11. My points are factual- U want me to give LDS Church references? JS-H 1:19, D&C 1:30, Article of Faith, Book of Mormon 1 Nephi 13 & 14, etc.
LDStothecore - That is your limited understanding & bias blinding you. The LDS Church gets its money, publ;ic relations push, missionaries, tithes & other offerings from full-time preaching all others are wrong/apostate, their professors of religion are corrupt, only LDS have divine authority- FULL TIME. I guess LDS Church is the one who is dishonest & not right w/God.
LDStothecore - UR post makes no sense. You give a one-liner with no context & no reference to what U talk about. We do not know what posts U respond to without giving info on what U disagree with.
LDStothecore - "tearing OTHERS down"? Again, yuo MIST be saying that about Paul (Galatians, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9), etc. The fact is that, notwithstanding your unwillingness to figure it out, that if someone is a Christian, believes Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4,13-15, they want to dedicate their lives to reaching others who they believe are in a damning false religion. Part-time can only do so much, research so much, and speak so much. FT gives more time.
LDStothecore -"JUST preach Christ & His truth"? How about details?: ALL other churches have invalid clergy, baptisms, communion, not a part of true church, it is taught to ALL who are converted, and LDS seek to take as many members of all other churches out of theirs to URs, and then smile & say others are wrong for sharing why they disagree with denouncing their church & beliefs. Giving a 'kinder, gentler' image than in earlier times, while still having same LDS Church doctrine & practices.
LDStothecore - "tearing OTHERS down"? Again, you MUST be saying that about Paul (Galatians, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9), etc. The fact is that, notwithstanding your unwillingness to figure it out, that if someone is a Christian, believes Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4,13-15, they want to dedicate their lives to reaching others who they believe are in a damning false religion. Part-time can only do so much, research so much, and speak so much. FT gives more time.
LDStothecore - NO evidence Smith was killed for Adam God doctrine. Assertion by Adam God advocates, maybe. McConkie ans agree with McConkie AND LDS president-prophet Kimball that Adam God is a false doctrine. Do U believe Adam was God the Eternal Father? I know soft Mormons would like to forget McConkie, but he had a good grasp of the LDS scriptures and early LDS Church top leaders & wrote more on LDS Jesus than ANY LDS EVER did & his MD was used in LDS KJV Bible Dictionary
@harry4health I like Elder McConkie. I don't want to forget him at all. Adam is NOT God the Father. We do NOT believe or teach that. It was NEVER a doctrine of the LDS Church.
LDStothecore - Adam God was taught from the highest leaders- prophet B Young, apostles, etc. BY taught it over & over, said his sermons to children of men is scripture, which agrees with D&C that when speaking under divine inspiration is scripture & power of God for salvation. He also said his teaching of Adam is essential to salvation- 'it will p[rove your salvation or damnation'. He referred to it as doctrine. U disagree with BY on the doctrine of God & what he said about those who reject it
@harry4health Have you even done your own research? I have and I don't believe Brigham Young taught that Adam is the Father. You misinterpret everything.
LDStothecore - I have read & studied well en ough on both sides to know Brigham Young DID teach Adam was God the Eternal Father, father of our spiritds & spirit of Jesus who came into Eden alreeady w/a celestial body w/Eve, ONE of his WIVES, etc., & that one's acceptence or rejection of THIS doctrine will prove their salvation or damnation. Orson Pratt knew exactly what BY preached & meant & he opposed it for a while. U make a shallow overswipe-everything?!! Send me a message in my YouTube Inbox
LDStothecore - PROVE he is a "COMPLETE idiot and LIAR", please. You hypocritically smear ALL critics, smear McKeever with no evidence to match UR assertion, and YOU are "rude, condescending [& are] mocking" McKeever. U seem to be blind of the double standard. LDS many times twist the teachings, etc., of other churches- including official LDS Church sources.
@harry4health I have not mocked him. I am sorry for him, but it's not funny. Him and most others think they know our beliefs better than us, which they don't.
LDStothecore - U still refuse to back up UR insults & U don't admit UR hypocrisy when you insult him & make a overgeneralized smear against him & all those who share why they don't agree with Mormonism. Sorry, UR stubborn. UR prideful - U don't know everything about UR religion, and he says things LDS far too often gloss over. UR church will gloss over doctrine without being plain & upfront, covering the real distinct doctrines- Heavenly Mother/Goddess wife of Elohim the Father, etc.
@harry4health Think what you like. I only speak truth. The LDS Church does not lie; we don't need to. Christ runs the Church. Why people like you waste your time tearing down what others believe is beyond me and your motives are not pure.
LDStothecore - Instead of backing up UR smearing of others- repeatedly, U add another insult & U arrogantly assume you know my motives. That is bearing false witness AGAIN. THEN U sidestep to ask why I 'tear down'. Darling, I posted to correct UR false witness. YOU tear down McKeever & me by UR arrogance. I guess Paul has impure motives in Galatians, 2 Cor 11, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9 & also same for Jude, 2 Peter, Rev 2:2, etc? LDS Church siad ALL others apostate, no authority, corrupt, etc
LDStothecore - In obeying Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9, Rev 2:2, etc., that means many issues will be covered. When Jesus is covered the differences between the biblical Jesus & LDS Jesus is shown. LDS Church does not just 'preach Jesus'. U preach that no one else is a part of the true church, no one else has divine authority, all other churches are apostate, their professors are corrupt & so on. U seek to convert ALL U can from OTHER churches. LDS Church is set up to denounce-even if w/ a nice face
IMO If Joseph Smith were alive today, the first book he'd throw in the trash is Mormon Doctrine. Joseph bragged in Nauvoo that Mormonism needs no creed and that is exactly what his book was establishing.
Such a testimony builder, to know that when the First Presidency had an issue doctrinally they turned to a man and not the Lord. Nice example...
He was the worst apostle of the 20th century. His 1982 talk at BYU telling the student body not to have a relationship with Christ sealed that deal.
seomike07 - Joseph Smith did not negate a creed, or better, a set of official doctrines. The Articles of faith are a bare creed. I can find a set of doctrines in True To The Faith, LDS Church's Bible Dictionary, etc. Elder McConkie had a FAR greater understanding of LDS-specific scripture & the early General Authorities than almost all modern GAs. J Smith gave a bunch of doctrine he claimed was revealed. Who is more qualified to speak of official & learned doctrine- McCoinkie, other GAs or you?
@harry4health - Joseph Smith did too negate a creed and a specific set of doctrine. He was teaching monogamy from the pulpit and plural marriage to the higher ups. He taught Adam was Michael the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7 (D&C 27) Who else sits on a throne in Heaven and is ministered by angels? God! which is exactly what B. Young said in 1852 from the pulpit. That Michael/Adam was the Father in Heaven fell as Adam and is God. McConkie calls that heresy in his book. Whos right? Brigham or Bruce?
seomike07 - REVISED: No, his public preaching & contradicting it in private on polygamy means he is a liar. The doctrine was in the original Doctrine & Covenants condemning polygamy. LDS apostle Packer in Ensign 1/1983 (also New Era & Liahona 1/2007) taught even if an LDS doesn't have a 'testimony', bear it anyway, since the receiving of one is in the bearing of one. That is lying to others & self-conditioning. Lying & deception is from Smith til today. U didn't prove he negated doctrine
@harry4health - No he was giving Milk to the general body and Meat to the tried and true. Well not all tried and true since William Law exposed his private teaching in the Nauvoo Expositor. One teaching of which is that "God was liable to fall with his creation" which is the heart of the Adam/God doctrine that Joseph revealed and was eventually killed for. Sad that McConkites are so quick to agree with Joseph Smith's murders on points of doctrine. That is why McConkie was spiritually retarded.
seomike07 - U repeat an LDS talking point - the NT when it says milk vs meat is not talking about denouncing a doctrine publicly (public relations) while advocating it privately. Dodging w/milk-meat does not negate the fact that he lied. It even became a part of the D&C very early on. Lying is lying. Special pleading is false & doesn't refute the charge.
Telling others polygamy is false while practicing it privately is lying & hypocrisy- U know, speaking 1 thing while living another life.
@harry4health And when Samuel gutted king Agag Murder is Murder and he's a hypocrite. Yet it's Samuel that says "To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams." Which is what Joseph was doing.
Have your cake and eat it to, diluted minds that reject the prophets always do. McConkie rejected many of the early teaching and called them heresies. Which fulfilled a prophecy that Joseph Smith gave a week before he died recorded by Mosiah Hancock. Look it up
seomike07 - Saul was king & was directed by GOD to destroy ALL because of wickedness. Saul kept Agag alive & took best stuff. Samuel told him he disobeyed God & killed Agag, the wicked king. Saul admitted he sinned. Samuel killed Agag "before Yahweh"/God. Samuel carried out what GOD WANTED. He did NOT murder & did NOT LIE in public. U twist it to force-fit it. Smith lied in public & early D&C was anti-polygamy. Say 1 thing & do another. Sam obeyed & did what GOD WANTED done, but Saul DISOBEYED
@harry4health - You don't pick up on sarcasm very well. I don't blame you, if my God were without body parts and passion and large enough to fill space yet small enough to dwell in your heart my head wouldn't be able to comprehend much either
Read section 132. It's a law to the priesthood not the church. It's controlled by the Lord's anointed not the Pres of the church. The priesthood can exist with or without the church and I offered that analogy to show you that Joseph was in Samuel's shoes..
seomike07- In UT/email, sarcasm isn't picked up well. U need to put a smily face winking to denote sarcasm.
Also, still- Joseph Smith lied while Sam didn't. Not sure why U say Sam was in JSmith's shoes. Unclear
Don't use sarcasm as a cop-out. Insulting over LDS parroted depiction of Trinity shows shallowness of understanding. Jeremiah says Yahweh fills heaven & earth. LDS says Elohim the father is an exalated man who became A God as we can through Mormonism. NO! Isa 43-47, James 2:19, Hos 11:9
seomike07-In YT/email, sarcasm isn't picked up well. U need to put a smily face winking to denote sarcasm
Also, still- Joseph Smith lied while Sam didn't. Not sure why U say Sam was in JSmith's shoes. Unclear
Don't use sarcasm as a cop-out. Insulting over LDS parroted depiction of Trinity shows shallowness of understanding. Jeremiah says Yahweh fills heaven & earth. LDS says Elohim the father is an exalated man who became A God as we can through Mormonism. NO! Isa 43-47, James 2:19, Hos 11:9
genexrollins, you need to read the June 1985 Ensign article "Bruce McConkie: 'Preacher of Righteousness.'" Often when a doctrinal question came before the First Presidency and the Twelve, he (E.T. Benson] continued, Elder McConkie was asked to quote the scripture or to comment on the matter. He could quote scripture verbatim and at great length. He provided the entire Church with an example of gospel scholarship. He could teach the gospel with ease because he first understood the gospel.
The claim that other GAs came to McConkie on doctrine is mostly McConkie Lore, McConkies hold themsleves in very high esteem even if No one else does!
One of the things McConkie said in MORmON DOCTRINE was that Polygamy would have to be reinstituted for the Milleneal reign of Christ to begin.
That's a huge contrast to Gordon Hinckley's "Its not doctrinal" on Laffy Kng Sep, 8 1998. Mostly McConkie dropped names & talked in circular logic. It all bolied down to LDS were right because they said so! I lost my 1st edition MoDoc.
The Book "Mormon Doctrine" was rejected by the first presidency at the time it was written. McConkie said the book was written on his own and through is own dictates and admitted of the inconsistencies of this book and actual Mormon doctrine.
Spin it bill spin it!
scottwins2 1 month ago
Shortest book ever published by Deseret Book: What I don't know by Bruce R. McConkie
r8rfanizme 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I love Elder McConkie. He was a great Apostle and representative of the Lord Jesus Christ.
thepunisher1129 3 months ago
@thepunisher1129 Well my book that which was inspired by another LDS Leader will be out soon "A Marvelous Work With My Blender: Ode To The Perfect Margarita" Thanks Le Grand Richards for your insperation.
Gideon6640man 2 weeks ago
Jo Smith claimed the Book of Mormon was recorded in 'Reformed Egyptian' by Mormon upon Golden plates. Jo claimed Mormon spoke Hebrew, but decided to use Reformed Egyptian as writing in Hebrew was tedious and took up too much room on the plates. LDS PEOPLE.. use the brains that God gave you... are you really that gullible?
54v115 4 months ago
NEVER ask a MORMON to do factual and historical research, it's not a natural undertaking they are accustomed to. Mormons can only handle being told facts in ways that make them feel nice and which don't threaten their status quo.
54v115 9 months ago
THIS GUY IS AN IDIOT. HE, AND ALL ANTIS, ARE GRASPING AT ANYTHING TO TRY TO DISCREDIT THE LDS CHURCH, WHICH IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore
state facts .. your argument, indeed your position is impotent without them. Paraphrasing the church is true is worthless without fact... form your argument with facts.... it makes for credibility.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 I know this guy lies. Just read his website or watch his videos. One example of his stupidity is claiming Joseph could not have carried the plates because they were too heavy. God can make anything happen.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore So you claim this guy lies and you example is that he is stupid? He shows facts how it is impossible to do what Joseph Smith claimed to have done, yes if God was involved it would be possible but where did Joseph ever claim that point? If God was acting in your life like that wouldn't you point that out or would you take all the credit?
Think then answer please!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM He hasn't shown anything of the kind. He gives his own opinions and interpretations, which are NOT necessarily true.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore So it is his opinion that a man cannot run at full speed through a forest for miles carrying a 80+ weight then fight off robbers? I surpose you have done this many times right? this is just a opinion right? even though he shows and demonstraights this with equal conditions?
Please take the blinders off my friend, the enemy has you in his power and you are following false gods!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You have no idea how much the plates weigh. By the way, you might try using spellcheck.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore You are correct, but it does not take an expert to understand how much gold weighs. Thank you, I will use spell check, sorry if you had troubles understanding what I said.
God Bless!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - God can make anything happen I agree with you there. But when one presents rationale head to head with a belief system, the belief system always wins the day. Did God make Lucy super strong too? It's a valid question. Did Joseph claim superhuman strength in his account? Check it out.. and when you have facts.. you can refute any claims with bona fide fact. Relying on details, real or imagined, resting in a belief system is no refutation.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 The belief system of the LDS Church is the Gospel of Christ.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - Is this found in the Bible: The Book of Mormon states that God created the heavens and the earth, yet they teach that he was born a man on some planet out in the universe that already existed and that he has a mother and father who had a mother and father and so on back in time. Yet, how then could their god be the creator of the universe in which he was born into and only after a human life was exalted to becoming a god? The Mormon doctrine and belief system is not Christian.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 You people are really sad. Who made you the supreme one that decides what a Christian is?
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - ohhh dear... The Bible states and demonstrates what makes a Christian. so I'm very happy to be sad... Pick up a Bible and do some learning, instead of making tired pedestrian noises. By the way... rather than show the world your true quality.. or lack of it.. try addressing the question.....
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Give me a reference from the Bible. And as for your questions, we don't have all the answers. We never claimed to. Some things we won't know for a long time.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - why can't you be bothered?.. why do you guys always want someone else to do the work and thinking for you? You guys always claim to read the Bible, and somehow you always manage to miss or bypass using erroneous verse out of context or blatantly ignore key Christian concepts and teaching. Why is that?
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 You antis are the very definition of taking things out of context. Where is your Bible reference? Don't know it? Hmmm.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore .. The Bible Canon states in it's entirety and demonstrates the standard -
If you want to be considered a Christian based on what the Bible says, then it is necessary to believe that the Bible Canon in it's entirety has been inspired by God Himself, and not as words of man, and says exactly what He wants it to say..of course, you think 'a' verse will prove all, or 'a' verse doesn't prove all out of convenience... that's because you don't understand what you may read in the Bible.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Your response is only evidence that you don't know the Bible. You can't give a reference for your claim.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore I have to respond here, every conversation we have ever had you have never, not one time, given me Biblical references. So Mr. Hypocrite, please stop using this defense unless you want to give Biblical references.
Sorry for being so blunt but the truth sometimes hurts.
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You have never given a valid reference to answer my question and you have never given a real answer.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore You cannot accept the answer without the Holy Spirit, for without the truth in you you cannot accept the truth my friend. We could take your hand and physically show you but without the truth in you (the Holy Spirit) you will never accept or understand the answer. I feel very sorry for you, for by you making these comments it clearly shows that you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. I am very sorry!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You make me laugh. Yet another copout NON-response, because you don't know.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore lol.. you still want someone else to do the work for you. Evidence nothing.. As God created the heavens and the earth, you teach that he was born a man on some planet out in the universe that already existed and that he has a mother and father who had a mother and father and so on back in time. Yet, how then could their god be the creator of the universe in which he was born into and only after a human life was exalted to becoming a god? What's your answer?
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 I don't have an answer. No one knows all things, but God. Will any of you people answer my question?
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore I have stated that the Bible in it's entirety demonstrates and bounds the standard required to be a christian. You believe that the Jesus of the Bible is the SAME jesus that you believe in. He isn't. Jesus is our Saviour and our Creator, he is not the same as us and therefore cannot be our literal brother. You use the same words but your definitions and meanings are not the same as in Christian doctrine. You want one verse? We both know there isn't one verse.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 You are just all the rest of the ridiculous antis. You spout your own INTERPRETATIONS, with no scriptures to back it up. You really should sew your lips together as well as your fingers and keep quiet if you have no way to respond or you refuse to.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore So says the guy who has answered nothing.. addressed no question put to him. Can offer no verse to support his own inference. My interpretations as you put them, are backed by two thousand years of Christian doctrine which is complete, apostolic interpretation, concur with over a billion other Christians.. what do you propose?.. Absolutely Nothing! Nothing to add - zip! Try learning what the Biblical scriptures are, who they represent, and why it's a road map, what they define...
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 When you people answer my question, which I have asked numerous times, with scripture, I will answer anything you ask.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Try to understand if it's not too much of a stretch for you, that THE Bible defines what it takes to be Christian (not a verse) and how to be Christian (not a verse), in their entirety. A Christian's belief cannot, must not deviate from the Biblical doctrine of Jesus Christ. You want a verse?.. provide it big man.. I never claimed a verse.. if you cannot and If you cannot disprove the above.. you're running your mouth...and that's about all you are running. Yah suspect!
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 If the Bible explains it, then you should be able to tell me where. Seems you don't know. You idiots are always demanding proof for our beliefs, but now that someone asks you to prove your belief, you are unable. Get a real life.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore If the Bible explains it..lol..lol... you really are a moron and you are obviously not Christian. If you were.. you'd know that the Bible Canon sets out exactly what it takes to be a Christian. Try reading the whole thing.. I demand nothing.. Jesus Christ demands you adhere to certain things and that doesn't waver because you can't be bothered to do your own study.. you need things explained to you and you've abdicated the ability to think, let alone comprehend..lol..lol.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 You are a fool. WHERE DOES THE BIBLE EXPLAIN IT???????? If you don't know, then SHUT UP!!!
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Please do not insult, this shows us that the Holy Spirit is not in you. Please, please seek the truth, the truth is not in you my friend!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM I am sad to say you have not the truth nor the Spirit. I follow the Spirit of God.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore How can you be sure it is the Spirit of God and not the tricker, liar, satan?
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM I have asked that same question of antis and NONE have answered, so how do you know?
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore We have told you but you refuse the truth. You see you and other LDS are after the flesh (Joseph Smith) and the law and do not have the Spirit in you (Romans 8:5-9). You also like to provoke people with lies (Galatians 5:24-26). The LDS do not have an understanding of the Cross or how important it is (Philippians 3:18-19). Just because you cannot understand what I am saying does not mean I do not bring Gods truth to you (1 Corinthians 14:2), seek the truth my friend!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You still have not answered. Also, we place our faith in Christ not Joseph, so stop lying.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore I believe that you do place your faith in Christ but your Christ is not the Christ of the Bible but of Joseph Smith. Did your Christ create everything including satan (Colossians 1:16-17) or is satan his brother?
Please my friend, seek the truth, you will not find it under the bonds of Mormonsim.
God Bless!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@LDStothecore My guess is that you need a fable, or how about a parable?.. perhaps that better suits your intellect. How many times do I have to say it to you?.. How many? HOW MANY? You're like a little robot who can't get beyond it's simple algorithm.. You're required to do a little reading and a little thinking, and all you can muster is where is the verse...lol..loll... what a robot!!!...lol Me shut up.. I don't think so ... lol
54v115 9 months ago
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@54v115 Call me what you like, but the fact remains you cannot back up your claims or beliefs, so go away.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - Try looking at the Bible Fred... you believe in a stone age story with an amalgam of metals for weaponry thrown in to boot. lol .. LOL...
54v115 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - LDS don't trust the bible do you? that's why you don't appreciate what it is, what it stands for, who the key players are, you wouldn't recognise Jesus of the Bible if you compared him with your jesus. You probably use the Joseph Smith version (JST) of the Bible? What did God say about messing with the Bible about adding or taking away? Is any of this familiar? Actually stay away from parables you don't understand the meaning of clear plain English.
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 We do know what the Bible stands for, etc. It is all about Christ. You complaint about adding or taking away has been refuted even by anti-Mormons. You don't understand it, so your credibility is gone.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore ..lol.. this coming from a guy who believes a conman saw the face of God and who then planned to sell and profit from the story or ONE of the many versions of it... you really need to get some facts in your belief system pal...lol The BIBLE says states quite the contrary to your pedestrian claims...lol.. refuted claims.lol..lol . what a load of crap..lol..lol...
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 You like that word pedestrian. Is it new for you? Joseph was NOT a conman. Prove the Bible contrary to my beliefs.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - I have many other words if you prefer.. Joseph Smith was convicted in a court of law as being a disorderly person and an imposter.... for Joseph Smith's 1826 Conviction see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 501... seems you're a little short on your own education. I have to prove nothing at all to you, as you've shown yourself to be completely ignorant of your OWN MORMON belief system and the conman Jo Smith who fronted it, let alone bona fide Biblical Christianity. You prove it
54v115 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Simple The Bible says One God (Mark 12:32; Isaiah 44:8) and He created the Heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1) vs Mormonism which teachs separate gods like the Holy Spirit did not create the heavens as in Alma 18:26-29 so the Holy Spirit is not the same God as the creator of the Heavens? Alma did not tell Lamoni that yes the Holy Spirit created the heavens only what heaven was.
Side note v35 shows the spirit is in us by faith not works, just saying.
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@LDStothecore refuted by anti-mormons...but not Christians...lol ... get some facts...
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 You might want to try actually studying the Bible and your bogus claims.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore lol.. lol... you mean the JST? lol..lol.. the Jo's Bible version your own branch of mormonism decided to re-work because they couldn't trust Jo's revelation?...lol..lol... do some home work instead of going to social events... lol
54v115 9 months ago
@LDStothecore - You do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Jesus Christ was not our Brother. He is our Creator (Colossians 1:16–17, Revelation 1:8, 17–18, cf. Isaiah 44:6). I believe in Jesus our Creator who is of the Bible Canon. Therefore I am Christian and as you do not believe in the same Jesus, then you can't be christian can you? Simple propositional logic. You really need to appreciate what Canonization means in terms of fullness and demonstration ...
54v115 9 months ago
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@54v115 Your beliefs were canonized by MEN, not God. And you are still not answering any of my questions, so you have zero credibility.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Actually God is supreme, I can only speak for myself when I say God leads Christians through the Holy Spirit to bring the TRUTH to the lost and the victims of the enemy, Satan.
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You still have not said how someone knows they are being lead by the Spirit. I will leave it alone, since you don't know.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Well I have answered like I have said many times, maybe some scripture will help. Read Romans 8:14 & Galatians 5:18, you see we (true Christians) have the Holy Spirit in us and it effects us internally as well as externally, a true Christian is shown by their actions as James tells us. I know the Holy Spirit leads me every day! (Thank you God!!!)
Take care and please keep seeking the truth, one day you will find it when you receive the Holy Spirit!
PS i ran spell check ;)
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM NO ANSWER!! Neither of those verses tell you how to know when you are influenced by the Spirit and you have not answered. You are lost.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
To all Christians who are trying to communicate the truth the LDS, this is exactly what they do to try to steer you away from the true path of showing them their false path. They try to ask a question (of course they will not answer any of your questions) that they do not know the answer to and thus will not accept your answers. I believe this is a sign of when God has hardened their hearts and thus there is no point in bringing the truth to them for they do not have the truth in them.
So Sad!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM I would accept your answer, but you refuse to answer, so I can only surmise that you don't know.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Your question "how someone knows they are being lead by the Spirit" the answer was given 10+ times, it is by their actions caused by the Holy Spirit leading/guiding you in your life. You will know this by how the once normal poor choices would affect you not with the Holy Spirit in you the same choices effect you different. Before you sinned against man and with the Holy Spirit you sin against God.
Seek the truth, seek God, He is waiting for you!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM This is the first time you have at least attempted to answer this, but it makes no sense. If two people tell you different things, how do you know if they speak by the Spirit?
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore That is a simple question, the Bible! If someone claims to be lead by the Holy Spirit yet does or says things contrary to what God word says then we know they are not being lead by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16-17). A good example is if someone teaches there are many gods, people can become gods, there is a goddess mother in heaven and such they are not speaking by the Holy Spirit since the Bible clearly does not support these teachings.
Trusting the Bible will show you!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM I see you will never answer. This is you: "And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible."
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore "a bible"? Well it is actually THE BIBLE! The Bible is the only book of God that is Archaeological, Scientifically, and prophetically accurate and proven. NO other book that claims to be the inspired word of God can claim this...NONE. Just the fact that you would put down the Bible shows how little you know about if and worst of all how much you do not trust it.
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM Are you saying there is evidence of the Arc of the Covenant and the tablets Moses received? Interesting.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Yes I am, the best way is to link you some proof, wwwDOTchristcenteredmallDOTcom/discoveries/noahs-ark
Also look up Sodom and Gomorrah, the Hittites, Jericho, Haran, Hazor, Dan, Megiddo, Shechem, Samaria, Shiloh, Gezer, Gibeah, Beth Shemesh, Beth Shean, Beersheba, Lachish, etc.
your turn...
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You haven't shown me anything.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore That is because you choose not to see my friend. I am so sorry that God is not in you and you do not understand the truth. The Truth will set you free.
Seek the truth my friend please, God loves you and want you to become His child!
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
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@Exodus314IAM It's clear you know NOTHING of the Bible.
LDStothecore 9 months ago
@LDStothecore Really? that is your response? I was hoping you could do a little better, but sorry to say the truth is not in you and you have no idea about the Bible or do you have any faith in it. You put 100% of your faith in books that contradict each other also that have not one piece of proof in any way what so ever.
Have you tested "the New World Translation" or the "Quran" in the same way you have tested the Book of Mormon or any other writings of Mormonism?
Exodus314IAM 9 months ago
THIS GUY IS AN IDIOT. HE, AND ALL ANTIS, ARE GRASPING AT ANYTHING TO TRY TO DISCREDIT THE LDS CHURCH, WHICH IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
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LDS/Mormon Church officially teaches in it's own scripture that if a Mormon, who they claim are Christians, kills/murders, there is NO forgiveness in this world or in the next world/afterlife- Doctrine & Covenants 42:18; 132:27. That denies 1 John 1:9- the Christian God cleanses a Christian from "ALL unrighteousness". For ALL sin, not just the ones the Mormon God says. LDS use word atonement alot, but radically different than the NT doctrine. LDS Church is NOT the New Testament church restored
harry4health 1 year ago
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LDStothecore - "tearing OTHERS down"? Again, you MUST be saying that about Paul (Galatians, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9), etc. The fact is that, notwithstanding your unwillingness to figure it out, that if someone is a Christian, believes Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4,13-15, they want to dedicate their lives to reaching others who they believe are in a damning false religion. Part-time can only do so much, research so much, and speak so much. FT gives more time.
LDS Church- FT denouncing & sheep stealing
harry4health 1 year ago
Elder McConkie rocked.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
This guy is a complete idiot and a liar.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - You are a nasty, insulting, rude little tart & he can back his words up, while you bear false witness & smear. Of course, it is a 'drive-by' smear - no content, just insulting assertion. Are you a liberal? They are good at that far too many times, and others adopt their dishonest tactics - like you.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health I have seen him and many anti-Mormons on TV. I have yet to see one that was honest about what they say. They are all rude, condescending, mocking people that rarely talk about Christ. Say what you like about me, but I speak the truth.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - No, you speak from partial *+& bias opinions. I have read & seen LDS who are nasty, condescending, etc- it cuts both ways. You also di=idn't back UR opinions up. IF U knew enough about McKeever here, U would know he is NOT nasty, rude, etc. U bear false witness & R stubborn. U overgeneralize & U do NOT speak the truth since U broad swipe & don't prove ALL critics are as you assert. Some are, but then again, not all are. I have seen LDS & LDS Church not being honest or upfront.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health Every one I have seen, including McKeever, lies, mocks, doesn't tell the whole story. Again, it's rare that they speak about Christ, which is the purpose of the LDS Church, to bring souls unto Him.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - In obeying Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9, Rev 2:2, etc., that means many issues will be covered. When Jesus is covered the differences between the biblical Jesus & LDS Jesus is shown. LDS Church does not just 'preach Jesus'. U preach that no one else is a part of the true church, no one else has divine authority, all other churches are apostate, their professors are corrupt & so on. U seek to convert ALL U can from OTHER churches. LDS Church is set up to denounce-even if w/ a nice face
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health The reason we teach the things you mention is that those things are necessary if we want to live with God. He set the rules, not us.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - That sn't addressing the issue. YOU said 'we' 'tear down' the LDS Church. I countered that YOUR church has done it since it's very inception, from the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 14) Smith until now. LDS Church just has a softer public presentation. From apostasy of the church to diverting to gospel/authority lost. The fact is that it is a double standard for LDS like U to complain about others when U do it to ALL others & seek to convert ALL from ALL OTHER churches to only yours
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health This argument is ridiculous. We are the only true church, true. However, anti-Mormons make a living by tearing us down. They research everything they can, spend years looking for anything to attack, write books against us, have TV shows against us, etc. We do NONE of that.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - No, the LDS Church's message is that ALL churches apostate, all creeds abomination, the professros of it are corrupt, no one else is a part of true church or has authority to baptize,give communion & clergy are invalid. THAT is your message. Christians write to defend their faith against LDS attacks & obey Titus 1:9, Eph 5:10-11. My poinyts are factual- U want me to give LDS Church references? JS-H 1:19, D&C 1:30, Article of Faith, Book of Mormon 1 Nephi 13 & 14, etc.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health The message of the LDS Church is to come to Christ.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@LDStothecore - U ignored all of my accurate explaining of FULLER LDS Church message. U evading & dodging what is in LDS Church's missioinary book, Preach My Gospel, what's been in the missionary discussions for decades & more, JS-H 1:19, BOM:1 Nephi 13-14 doesn't erase the facts.U preach a Christ that is 1 of many Gods, became A God, didn't atone 4 all sin (D&C 42), paid for 'sin mostly in Gethesemane (Romney, Ensign, D&C 19)& said all churches false & professors corrupt-only LDS have authority
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health What have I ingored? Also, only one church can be true and have the authority.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - U ignored everything. I gave specifics showing U incorrect & U addressed nothing. ALL missionary discussions have MUCH more than just the 'come unto Christ'. Even THAT is connected to becoming Mormon. LDS Church's missionary book, Preach My Gospel & past missionary discussions, JS-H 1:19, etc
Bible doesn't teach LDS Church as the only true church. ALL Christians=church. LDS apostles & prophets NOT NT models, NT priesthood is not some LDS males only, but ALL Christians- 1 Pet 2:5-9
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health The Bible does teach one faith, one Lord, one baptism, not thousands. Give me a list of specifics you want addressed. You can email them if you want.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - UR problem: U repeat 1 sliver of 1 verse & don't think it through. U didn't use the Bible to know what it means, but how can U use it for a pretext. Can someone have faith without an organization? YES. Can people have faith in Jesus or God the Father in different churches? YES. One LORD doesn't say anything about have to be member of same ORG. Baptism-water happens in most churches, and 1 Cor 12:13 Paul says a SPIRITUAL baptism places one in the body/church-"BY" the Holy Spirit.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health Be more specific about the D&C. What verses? Also, why do you think Jesus bled from every pore in the Garden? Joseph Smith History is correct.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore: D&C 42:18-To LDS who "kill": NO forgiveness in this life or afterlife. LDS Jesus didn't pay for ALL sin
Jesus in Gethsemane: U need to research outside LDSism. Oldest&best manuscripts don't have verse with sweat/blood. Also, if LDS would read closely, verse in Luke says it was SWEAT, and the SWEAT was LIKE blood. Doesn't say actual blood. Medical-one CAN sweat some blood, though rare. NOTHING to do w/atoning: Hematidosis. NT ALWAYS says atoned thru BLOOD of CROSS-1 Cor 15/Col 1:20
harry4health 1 year ago
LDStothecore - Added points: 1) The NT does NOT say he BLED from EVERY pore. That is LDS scripture. NT Luke says he SWEAT (in less reliable manuscripts that even have sweat like blood). 2) Joseph Smith's History is false. It was reworked on First Vision & some other places in JS-History 1 in PofGPrice. Earliest 1st Vision account(s?) do not even have the anti-Christian 'bashing' verse (I used anti/bashing, since many LDS love to emotionally charge the sharing of disagreements in that way)
harry4health 1 year ago
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LDS/Mormon Church officially teaches in it's own scripture that if a Mormon, who they claim are Christians, kills/murders, there is NO forgiveness in this world or in the next world/afterlife- Doctrine & Covenants 42:18; 132:27. That denies 1 John 1:9- the Christian God cleanses a Christian from "ALL unrighteousness". For ALL sin, not just the ones the Mormon God says. LDS use word atonement alot, but radically different than the NT doctrine. LDS Church is NOT the New Testament church restored
harry4health 1 year ago
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LDStothecore - No, the LDS Church's message is that ALL churches apostate, all creeds abomination, the professors of it are corrupt, no one else is a part of true church or has authority to baptize,give communion & clergy are invalid. THAT is your message. Christians write to defend their faith against LDS attacks & obey Titus 1:9, Eph 5:10-11. My points are factual- U want me to give LDS Church references? JS-H 1:19, D&C 1:30, Article of Faith, Book of Mormon 1 Nephi 13 & 14, etc.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health Also, anyone that makes their living by tearing others down, is not honest and is not right with God.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - That is your limited understanding & bias blinding you. The LDS Church gets its money, publ;ic relations push, missionaries, tithes & other offerings from full-time preaching all others are wrong/apostate, their professors of religion are corrupt, only LDS have divine authority- FULL TIME. I guess LDS Church is the one who is dishonest & not right w/God.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health This doesn't make any sense.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - UR post makes no sense. You give a one-liner with no context & no reference to what U talk about. We do not know what posts U respond to without giving info on what U disagree with.
harry4health 1 year ago
LDStothecore - "tearing OTHERS down"? Again, yuo MIST be saying that about Paul (Galatians, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9), etc. The fact is that, notwithstanding your unwillingness to figure it out, that if someone is a Christian, believes Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4,13-15, they want to dedicate their lives to reaching others who they believe are in a damning false religion. Part-time can only do so much, research so much, and speak so much. FT gives more time.
LDS Church- FT denouncing & sheep stealing
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health Sheep stealing? That's funny. We just preach Christ and His truth and people come if they have a testimony.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore -"JUST preach Christ & His truth"? How about details?: ALL other churches have invalid clergy, baptisms, communion, not a part of true church, it is taught to ALL who are converted, and LDS seek to take as many members of all other churches out of theirs to URs, and then smile & say others are wrong for sharing why they disagree with denouncing their church & beliefs. Giving a 'kinder, gentler' image than in earlier times, while still having same LDS Church doctrine & practices.
harry4health 1 year ago
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LDStothecore - "tearing OTHERS down"? Again, you MUST be saying that about Paul (Galatians, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9), etc. The fact is that, notwithstanding your unwillingness to figure it out, that if someone is a Christian, believes Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4,13-15, they want to dedicate their lives to reaching others who they believe are in a damning false religion. Part-time can only do so much, research so much, and speak so much. FT gives more time.
LDS Church- FT denouncing & sheep stealing
harry4health 1 year ago
LDStothecore - NO evidence Smith was killed for Adam God doctrine. Assertion by Adam God advocates, maybe. McConkie ans agree with McConkie AND LDS president-prophet Kimball that Adam God is a false doctrine. Do U believe Adam was God the Eternal Father? I know soft Mormons would like to forget McConkie, but he had a good grasp of the LDS scriptures and early LDS Church top leaders & wrote more on LDS Jesus than ANY LDS EVER did & his MD was used in LDS KJV Bible Dictionary
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health I like Elder McConkie. I don't want to forget him at all. Adam is NOT God the Father. We do NOT believe or teach that. It was NEVER a doctrine of the LDS Church.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - Adam God was taught from the highest leaders- prophet B Young, apostles, etc. BY taught it over & over, said his sermons to children of men is scripture, which agrees with D&C that when speaking under divine inspiration is scripture & power of God for salvation. He also said his teaching of Adam is essential to salvation- 'it will p[rove your salvation or damnation'. He referred to it as doctrine. U disagree with BY on the doctrine of God & what he said about those who reject it
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health Have you even done your own research? I have and I don't believe Brigham Young taught that Adam is the Father. You misinterpret everything.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - I have read & studied well en ough on both sides to know Brigham Young DID teach Adam was God the Eternal Father, father of our spiritds & spirit of Jesus who came into Eden alreeady w/a celestial body w/Eve, ONE of his WIVES, etc., & that one's acceptence or rejection of THIS doctrine will prove their salvation or damnation. Orson Pratt knew exactly what BY preached & meant & he opposed it for a while. U make a shallow overswipe-everything?!! Send me a message in my YouTube Inbox
harry4health 1 year ago
LDStothecore - PROVE he is a "COMPLETE idiot and LIAR", please. You hypocritically smear ALL critics, smear McKeever with no evidence to match UR assertion, and YOU are "rude, condescending [& are] mocking" McKeever. U seem to be blind of the double standard. LDS many times twist the teachings, etc., of other churches- including official LDS Church sources.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health I have not mocked him. I am sorry for him, but it's not funny. Him and most others think they know our beliefs better than us, which they don't.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - U still refuse to back up UR insults & U don't admit UR hypocrisy when you insult him & make a overgeneralized smear against him & all those who share why they don't agree with Mormonism. Sorry, UR stubborn. UR prideful - U don't know everything about UR religion, and he says things LDS far too often gloss over. UR church will gloss over doctrine without being plain & upfront, covering the real distinct doctrines- Heavenly Mother/Goddess wife of Elohim the Father, etc.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health Think what you like. I only speak truth. The LDS Church does not lie; we don't need to. Christ runs the Church. Why people like you waste your time tearing down what others believe is beyond me and your motives are not pure.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
LDStothecore - Instead of backing up UR smearing of others- repeatedly, U add another insult & U arrogantly assume you know my motives. That is bearing false witness AGAIN. THEN U sidestep to ask why I 'tear down'. Darling, I posted to correct UR false witness. YOU tear down McKeever & me by UR arrogance. I guess Paul has impure motives in Galatians, 2 Cor 11, Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9 & also same for Jude, 2 Peter, Rev 2:2, etc? LDS Church siad ALL others apostate, no authority, corrupt, etc
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health I repeat, where is Christ in your bantering? We LDS have as our purpose to preach Christ and you people rarely mention Him at all.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
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LDStothecore - In obeying Eph 5:10-11, Titus 1:9, Rev 2:2, etc., that means many issues will be covered. When Jesus is covered the differences between the biblical Jesus & LDS Jesus is shown. LDS Church does not just 'preach Jesus'. U preach that no one else is a part of the true church, no one else has divine authority, all other churches are apostate, their professors are corrupt & so on. U seek to convert ALL U can from OTHER churches. LDS Church is set up to denounce-even if w/ a nice face
harry4health 1 year ago
IMO If Joseph Smith were alive today, the first book he'd throw in the trash is Mormon Doctrine. Joseph bragged in Nauvoo that Mormonism needs no creed and that is exactly what his book was establishing.
Such a testimony builder, to know that when the First Presidency had an issue doctrinally they turned to a man and not the Lord. Nice example...
He was the worst apostle of the 20th century. His 1982 talk at BYU telling the student body not to have a relationship with Christ sealed that deal.
seomike07 1 year ago
seomike07 - Joseph Smith did not negate a creed, or better, a set of official doctrines. The Articles of faith are a bare creed. I can find a set of doctrines in True To The Faith, LDS Church's Bible Dictionary, etc. Elder McConkie had a FAR greater understanding of LDS-specific scripture & the early General Authorities than almost all modern GAs. J Smith gave a bunch of doctrine he claimed was revealed. Who is more qualified to speak of official & learned doctrine- McCoinkie, other GAs or you?
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health - Joseph Smith did too negate a creed and a specific set of doctrine. He was teaching monogamy from the pulpit and plural marriage to the higher ups. He taught Adam was Michael the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7 (D&C 27) Who else sits on a throne in Heaven and is ministered by angels? God! which is exactly what B. Young said in 1852 from the pulpit. That Michael/Adam was the Father in Heaven fell as Adam and is God. McConkie calls that heresy in his book. Whos right? Brigham or Bruce?
seomike07 1 year ago
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harry4health 1 year ago
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harry4health 1 year ago
seomike07 - REVISED: No, his public preaching & contradicting it in private on polygamy means he is a liar. The doctrine was in the original Doctrine & Covenants condemning polygamy. LDS apostle Packer in Ensign 1/1983 (also New Era & Liahona 1/2007) taught even if an LDS doesn't have a 'testimony', bear it anyway, since the receiving of one is in the bearing of one. That is lying to others & self-conditioning. Lying & deception is from Smith til today. U didn't prove he negated doctrine
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health - No he was giving Milk to the general body and Meat to the tried and true. Well not all tried and true since William Law exposed his private teaching in the Nauvoo Expositor. One teaching of which is that "God was liable to fall with his creation" which is the heart of the Adam/God doctrine that Joseph revealed and was eventually killed for. Sad that McConkites are so quick to agree with Joseph Smith's murders on points of doctrine. That is why McConkie was spiritually retarded.
seomike07 1 year ago
seomike07 - U repeat an LDS talking point - the NT when it says milk vs meat is not talking about denouncing a doctrine publicly (public relations) while advocating it privately. Dodging w/milk-meat does not negate the fact that he lied. It even became a part of the D&C very early on. Lying is lying. Special pleading is false & doesn't refute the charge.
Telling others polygamy is false while practicing it privately is lying & hypocrisy- U know, speaking 1 thing while living another life.
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health And when Samuel gutted king Agag Murder is Murder and he's a hypocrite. Yet it's Samuel that says "To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams." Which is what Joseph was doing.
Have your cake and eat it to, diluted minds that reject the prophets always do. McConkie rejected many of the early teaching and called them heresies. Which fulfilled a prophecy that Joseph Smith gave a week before he died recorded by Mosiah Hancock. Look it up
seomike07 1 year ago
seomike07 - Saul was king & was directed by GOD to destroy ALL because of wickedness. Saul kept Agag alive & took best stuff. Samuel told him he disobeyed God & killed Agag, the wicked king. Saul admitted he sinned. Samuel killed Agag "before Yahweh"/God. Samuel carried out what GOD WANTED. He did NOT murder & did NOT LIE in public. U twist it to force-fit it. Smith lied in public & early D&C was anti-polygamy. Say 1 thing & do another. Sam obeyed & did what GOD WANTED done, but Saul DISOBEYED
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health - You don't pick up on sarcasm very well. I don't blame you, if my God were without body parts and passion and large enough to fill space yet small enough to dwell in your heart my head wouldn't be able to comprehend much either
Read section 132. It's a law to the priesthood not the church. It's controlled by the Lord's anointed not the Pres of the church. The priesthood can exist with or without the church and I offered that analogy to show you that Joseph was in Samuel's shoes..
seomike07 1 year ago
seomike07- In UT/email, sarcasm isn't picked up well. U need to put a smily face winking to denote sarcasm.
Also, still- Joseph Smith lied while Sam didn't. Not sure why U say Sam was in JSmith's shoes. Unclear
Don't use sarcasm as a cop-out. Insulting over LDS parroted depiction of Trinity shows shallowness of understanding. Jeremiah says Yahweh fills heaven & earth. LDS says Elohim the father is an exalated man who became A God as we can through Mormonism. NO! Isa 43-47, James 2:19, Hos 11:9
harry4health 1 year ago
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seomike07-In YT/email, sarcasm isn't picked up well. U need to put a smily face winking to denote sarcasm
Also, still- Joseph Smith lied while Sam didn't. Not sure why U say Sam was in JSmith's shoes. Unclear
Don't use sarcasm as a cop-out. Insulting over LDS parroted depiction of Trinity shows shallowness of understanding. Jeremiah says Yahweh fills heaven & earth. LDS says Elohim the father is an exalated man who became A God as we can through Mormonism. NO! Isa 43-47, James 2:19, Hos 11:9
harry4health 1 year ago
genexrollins, you need to read the June 1985 Ensign article "Bruce McConkie: 'Preacher of Righteousness.'" Often when a doctrinal question came before the First Presidency and the Twelve, he (E.T. Benson] continued, Elder McConkie was asked to quote the scripture or to comment on the matter. He could quote scripture verbatim and at great length. He provided the entire Church with an example of gospel scholarship. He could teach the gospel with ease because he first understood the gospel.
Utahrez 2 years ago
The claim that other GAs came to McConkie on doctrine is mostly McConkie Lore, McConkies hold themsleves in very high esteem even if No one else does!
genexrollins 2 years ago
One of the things McConkie said in MORmON DOCTRINE was that Polygamy would have to be reinstituted for the Milleneal reign of Christ to begin.
That's a huge contrast to Gordon Hinckley's "Its not doctrinal" on Laffy Kng Sep, 8 1998. Mostly McConkie dropped names & talked in circular logic. It all bolied down to LDS were right because they said so! I lost my 1st edition MoDoc.
genexrollins 2 years ago
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1. Christ organized the Church (Ephesians 4:11-15)
2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ
(Ephesians 5:23)
3. The true church must have a foundation of
Apostles and Prophets (Ephesians 2:19-20)
4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's Church (Ephesians 4:11-15)
LDSTrueChurch 2 years ago
The Book "Mormon Doctrine" was rejected by the first presidency at the time it was written. McConkie said the book was written on his own and through is own dictates and admitted of the inconsistencies of this book and actual Mormon doctrine.
jxwhit8 2 years ago
Baptisms in the name of Adam-god theory, satans brother, and space man polygamist are invalid baptisms.
endofus 3 years ago