Israel

[anigilat4]

unvail the tru color of the IHH !! a so-called humaniterian NGO with a clear political agenda, radical Islamic views and proven ties to Al Qauida and Hamas - indeed some bunch of "Aid Workers".

[asrafoo]

should I add the GDP due to weapons?no doubt it is just as much!No diamond ,no weapons,no israeli economy.

[megamarsvin]

Made holier by the blood of millions spilled in the name of God and his self-styled chosen people.

[Judel100]

Hyperbolic to the point of being hysteric. "Millions"? No more than 100 000 since '48. 200 000 die in Darfur in one year. 2 000 000 have died in the Congo in the last decade. Who cares? Not so easy to impose a simplistic victim/oppressor template. "Chosen people" - a burden of responsibility not always shouldered. Exodus hardly reads as a licence for racism. If Israel is concerned all faculties of rational judgement are suspended. And this is true of both sides of this miserable conflict.

[megamarsvin]

Yes it was a hyperbola. It's a legitimate linguistic construct. So "only" 100.000 you say? Well that makes it much better. Oh and other barbaric nations do it too? Well then that makes it perfectly ok no?

And for your attempt to equate the "sides" here, how many Jews have died in that time? 100.000? Not even close huh?

As for your attempt to make me sound like I support Hamas, obviously I don't. But they are a terrorist organization first and foremost. Israel is pretending to be civilized.

[megamarsvin]

I don't know why you're addressing that to me because I never used the word "Congo" once in anything I said and certainly not to minimize the crimes of the Israelis. In fact if you'd take the time to read what I actually said I was *admonishing* them, not supporting them.

Thanks for your comment anyway.

[Judel100]

No, hyperbole isn't a legitimate "construct." The only attitude to adopt to a conflict as tragic, complex and intractable as Israel-Palestine is cool, analytical rationality. Your bible-based explanation only holds true of a small minority of die-hard Jewish fanatics living in the West Bank. The rest of the Israeli right is made up of ultra secularists like Lieberman and cynics like Bibi Netanyahu. The majority of ordinary Israelis succumb to fear tactics from the right and Hamas.

[megamarsvin]

No I agree the problem is with the government. It always is. And again I'm not saying the Palestinians are much better, just not as powerful.

But when you are the one who is in control and you stomp on any chance of peace just because you're either a religious fanatic (of which there are a lot in the Israeli government) or a "cynic" as you say. Well then you're responsible for the results.

[Judel100]

Cool. It's rare that people agree on YouTube! Re your original message: you might want to read Michael Walzer's book "Exodus and Revolution." It describes how religious concepts like "chosen people" and stories like the Exodus from Egypt can be reclaimed to advance a radical, progressive politics of social change and justice. For too long the Bible has been read as a justification for oppression and segregation. It's time we Jews created a "liberation theology" of our own.

[megamarsvin]

I like to think I'm somewhat reasonable. But these things get under my skin so sometimes my comments may be a little rough. My apologies for that.

Thanks for that recommendation, it sounds like an interesting read. And I agree with your closing line, very much so.

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 You mentioned arms your self!I said arms and diams made 80 percent!I just check to let you know,30 is diamond you can check your self!and other country ares taking over sinve the establisment of the Kimberly process and the end of most african diamond wars!contingency?I don't remember saying anything against jews!but for me the thora is not a title of property!and claiming you are the chosen can make some assert a lot concerning the others!

[Judel100]

You don't have to convince me of the evils of the diamond trade. In your post, however, you clearly laid the bulk of responsibility on Jewish (Hassidic Jews I presume) Jewellers and Diamond sellers in Antwerp. To single out one group among the multitude involved in this exploitative industry is a sign of prejudice. An account of the Darfur genocide that blamed only the Chinese would be open to similar criticism. As for Israel's GDP, give me your source and then we can talk.

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 so now? you have the sources ! I think you find even more out then just the part of gdp due to diamonds .Nothing to say?

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 So, if we apply the western doctrine not to mix religion and policy, what aspect of that state , can a moral person defend?

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 the reorientation of the israeli economy from diams to indrustry and hightech has taken place the last 10 years,since the kimberly process.Contingency?

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 I gave you sources and you remain silent! charging me of antisemitism while I was telling the truth was not the right strategy.Guess there is nothing left to say but that reality is ugly ! Do something before the damage can not be repaired!

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 Just to let you know for congo,the isreali coorporations,that make 80 percent of israels GDP with diamonds and weapons can tell you how congo managed to kill 2 million people.Just ask them where the diams come from and who they sell weapons to

[Judel100]

I'm assuming you're not going to provide a source for that totally arbitrary and inflated statistic (80pc of GDP - even the most clueless of anti-Zionists knows that its the hi-tech, arms and agribusiness sectors that are pulling Israel's economy). Tel Aviv does have a diamond district, but it is rapidly losing favour to Dubai's which caters mostly to the Arab and Asian markets (yes, everyone is steeped in the blood of blood diamonds). When will anti-Semites learn that greed knows of no races?

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 why do you always come up with this anti semitism shit! If I mentioned the chinese role in Darfur would I be anti chinese?

[asrafoo]

@Judel100 By the way the columbium for your intelpentium microchips come from congo too.If you knew the role played by israelis and jews of antwerpen in Congos tragedy you woudn't have named it to minimize the crimes and injustice of the zionist state!

[Pokhton]

hopefully i can visit one day oshalim ,its a very holy place