Im tired of this shit, some muslims are getting too soft out here. Everybody acting all apologetic and going against their own deen for people who wont accept truth anyway. There is no such thing as a secular sunni, you either in or you out plain and simple.
There must not be many Muslims who've seen this video or most of the ones that did didn't give it a "thumbs down" that it deserved.
Oxymorons
fall up
run slow
bright dark
earthly heavens
secular Muslim
If a person is secular, they cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits their will to do the will of God. A secularist puts their faith in worldly issues. Even a good Christian or a good Jew would not accepted the term secular added to their description!
There must not be many Muslims who've seen this video or most of the ones that did didn't give it a "thumbs down" that it deserved.
Oxymorons
fall up
run slow
bright dark
earthly heavens
secular Muslim
If a person is secular, they cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits their will to do the will of God. A secularist puts their faith in worldly issues. Even a good Christian or a good Jew would not accepted the term secular added to their description!
if one is secular, he practices religion behind closed doors, rather than to flaunt it in public... so yes, one can be secular and muslim, but one can't be a fundamentalist and secular... this is a clear distinction...
@kelgnaik Islam is much different. It's not about living behind closed doors. It's about living every aspect to the point where you are recognized as a Muslim by the public merely by your actions.
Most religions focus on the spiritual aspects, but Islam is of a much more balanced nature. It focuses on the spiritual but at the same time places heavy emphasis on 'worldly' aspects as well.
@ISMASHYOUBRO: maybe I've been less clear... a Muslim does not have to hide his religion behind closed doors, rather makes Islam a personal matter... there shouldnt be question on whether Islam is better or worse...
Do you notice that the worldly aspects were formulised by Muslim geniuses in medieval times, those with secularist tendencies? it's ironic how fundamentalists now take credit of their ideas, when back then they were the ones responsible for the pogroms of 'unislamic' elements...
Sounds like you're speaking of the U.S. gov't. Am I correct? Maybe that's a little extreme. They send you to jail first (for tax evasion). Then you die.
A Muslims who knows their faith already knows the truth about Islam! We are wise and becoming wiser.....and it has nothing to do with leaving Islam and converting to another faith.
an overly atheist propaganda, like jihadist pursuits are trash in humanity, surpassed only by a supermacist ideology... egos need to go, in order to see the greater picture... there is no such thing as 'me being better than you guys'... fanatic/obsessed muslims, like other extremeties of culture, would need to understand this...
@DeucePrez: yeah Islam should be adaptable... you dwell in a paranoid complex where the world is trying to kill Islam... no... look, here's a trash from me for you to consider: I'll respect Islam for what it is, nobody needs to bow and worship it for purported supremacy... there are no oohs and aahs in whatsover...
@DeucePrez: Islam, along with Judaism, Christianity, Secularism, etc. are breeze, to form a wind of change... it is always selfish to quote that 'I Am the Wind'... The Extremist mind accepts this, forming a storm of danger...
@kelgnaik I hope you do understand that in Islam by teaching there is no such thing as a man being better than another, regardless of what religion he may be. I do hope you realize that.
@ISMASHYOUBRO: Matter of fact, the Quran is not entirely followed by the general (not all) Muslim populace, in the sense that only excerpts that guarantee Islamic supremacy is glorified... Let's be clear, I'm not against Islam, it's the Muslim ego that upsets me...
a muslim who knows their faith literally knows about islam... he/she sees it from an exclusively one-sided dimension, where aspects of islam would always be superior to un-islamic teachings... this is a misstep... there should be constant interaction amongst culture and beliefs... of course there are integral parts of islam which are worth defending, but there learning pursuits for muslims, to teach, offer, and take, absorb at the same time...
there is no wrong involved in any muslim who chose to become atheists in their later lives... in a similar way, conversion to islam (or any religion for that matter) is just another channel of expression, a choice... there are no oohs and aahs in any of those pursuits...
Hmmmm, this is quite interesting. What this man is doing is taking Mohammed and his violence out of Islam and almost making it into a New Age orthodoxy. Interesting and lovely if the Islamists would just follow this idea. I don't see it happening.
in the early days of islam, people like him are abundant, constantly engaging in intellectual pursuit... gradually they have been systematically silenced, in the name of preserving islamic spirituality... it's ironic how muslims today take credit in the achievements of those silenced heretics...
it is irrelevant to cite the benevolence of good muslims to justify the evils to the rest... this applies to all cultures and religion... islam is not exclusive...
Perhaps you know so little of Islam and hold onto the lies others tell of Islam, you're reading into my comments.
Any benevolence cited about Islam is about the actions of a vast majority of Muslims. At the same time, any citations of evil done by a small minority is not representation of the faith of Islam.
I hope this truth adds to your knowledge based and refutes some of the previous lies about Islam you've taken as truth.
the fact that islam promotes benevolence is a fact, yet conservative fanaticism remains a violent aspect of it...
the fact that islamic achievements are cited now and then are irrelevant, wht's important is for muslims to progress, as a continuation of islam...
note that islam and muslims are not interchangeable, wht is stated is one, wht is perceived is another... there are ills among muslims, as there is good among them...
@kelgnaik This has nothing to do with Islam. Deuceprez isn't justifying the actions, he/she's merely stating the obvious fact that the actions of a few don't always represent the majority, or better yet the teachings themselves.
there is no argument against islam, yet it remains clear that it is just another channel of interpretation. there is no justifying the truths or falsehoods of it, they are irrelevant. often, we see that there is a sense of excess ego from such one-sided belief dimension, that 'i'm definitely better'. religion represents a constant, dynamic relationship with god, not a literal interpretation of literature. islam is worth examining, in ways that islam could continuously teach and learn...
while there are truths in islamic literature, this remains a logic that should not be seen exclusively from an islamic dimension. it is part of the many in the richness of culture and intellect, shared by many. islam is not exclusive and absolute, but rather it is just there. if the literal obsessions of the quran is shed, religion and secularism might just coexist, or be separate without clashes... note that none is dominant, none would supercede, but rather everything interchanges...
@kelgnaik I can see where you're coming from. By law forcing people to abide by Islamic law in theory is forbidden. I do believe that people should learn their faiths and understand them better, rather than taking on an ignorant supremacist stance.
it is easily noticeable that supremacist ego is an ill permeating all spectra. here is where division partitions different upbringings and followings. the man we see in this video, the so-called secular muslim, is not a threat to islam. that people like him would be a driving force behind a new age of interpretation. islam will not just die, it is a scare posted by fanatics to grip on power and existence. being adaptable would improve any path or undertaking, including islam.
@DeucePrez He's not really talking trash, he's merely giving his viewpoint, and an educated one at that. There are many people who don't really comprehend the tenets of the religion and like to make assumptions based on what they know.
It's just the way it is. We as an ummah do need to unite and tear down the walls that have been built between us Shia's Sunni's Muslims/Non-Muslims alike - that's exactly what apologists have been saying over the last decade.
@DeucePrez: there is filth in you that needs to be neutralised... you do not see the sufferings of others, but only the upsets of Muslims... you see Islam as the only solution in everything... lets be fair and wise... Islam, for all that it can teach and remedy, could also adopt and learn from 'so-called' kuffars... notice that the world is built on shared experiences, not exclusivity... the sufferings of Muslims do not justify the exclusion of other discriminatories...
@ISMASHYOUBRO: Islam shares a level experience with all tenets and paths... it is a mere choice... so it deserves basic rights and respects... what Deuceprez desires is more, he and like-minded ones dream of an Islamic utopia, where the dictates of men and women stem from it... this is an ego...
@ISMASHYOUBRO: I see... then it is clear that deuceprez wallows in a one-dimensional weltanschauung... i do get the impression that he is defending islam from a shadow threat, which do not exist in reality... a more fruitful engagement would be an exchange dialogue...
the layman explanation to this will be, a muslim goes by his days being a decent man, abiding the dictates of the quran, while an islamist would chant and howl and wield every minute, so-calledly to glorify islamic supremacy... the difference is stark...
@DeucePrez: whether Muhammad is a violent man is irrelevant... we see today that most conservatives have extremist views, which would sadden God and his prophets in so many ways...
Just to reiterate the truth -- there IS no violence in Islam and anything you see aggressively violent done by a Muslim/so-called Muslim is that person acting our their own aggression.
And I'm still waiting for the definition of "Islamists". Just so no one reiterates or restates a LIE, that word has no correlation with Muslim (one who submits their will to do the will of God/Allah).
Dose it mean "those who MISSED the true meaning of Islam"??
@DeucePrez Muslim herdsmen, some dressed in military uniforms, attacked a predominantly Christian village at about 1 a.m. Wednesday near the city of Jos, close to where a machete-wielding Muslim group killed hundreds in a mostly Christian town this month, said Choji Gyang, special adviser on religious affairs to the governor of the Nigerian state of Plateau.
@MrsElaineee: well what Islam is , not really ur business is it/ u go to any Islamic channel n leave ur shit comments about My Religion, If Islam is not ment to be, then why doesn't ur presious Jesus stop it?, u may protest what ever, but think why more christians, jes , Hindus n more ppl r coming to islam? act smart, not coward.
and Leave Islam alone, n go watch Jesus christ Miricle channel now.
@MrsElaineee: well what Islam is , not really ur business is it/ u go to any Islamic channel n leave ur shit comments about My Religion, If Islam is not ment to be, then why doesn't ur presious Jesus stop it?, u may protest what ever, but think why more christians, jes , Hindus n more ppl r coming to islam? act smart, not coward.
and Leave Islam alone, n go watch Jesus christ Miricle channel now.
@MrsElaineee: well what Islam is , not really ur business is it/ u go to any Islamic channel n leave ur shit comments about My Religion, If Islam is not ment to be, then why doesn't ur presious Jesus stop it?, u may protest what ever, but think why more christians, jes , Hindus n more ppl r coming to islam? act smart, not coward.
and Leave Islam alone, n go watch Jesus christ Miricle channel now.
Voice the same concern over those being killed in the Gaza Strip.....
There are looney folx in the good ole U.S. of A. who're hell-bent on killing law enforcement and government officials.....and those loons aren't claiming to be Muslims either!
According to many facts in books and on the internet, even muslim sources, the founder of Islam joined, called upon and participated in violent acts in the 7th century, Christ and the apostles didn´t. Islam practiced aggression and violence in the first 300 years after its founding, christianity did not. The quoran has harsh and discriminative verses about non-muslims, the New Testament is mainly pacifistic (even if som phrases can be turned inside and out). This is not my opinion, it´s facts.
I noticed that you compared Prophet Muhammad (saw) to Jesus. Interesting. You not once mentioned any of the prophet (peace be unto them) in the Old Testament who had to take up arms in defense or offense for the people of God.
Maybe you FAILED to read that (the largest) portion of the Bible....??!!!
muhammad & christ are unrelated entities... christ is a menisfestation, while muhammand is mere flesh, who received revelation... both are not gods, but carry religious symbolisms...
You should check your (flawed) sources. As I've stated before, too often, when Islam is taught to non-Muslims, it's entwined with that person's CULTURE, but has no basis in Islam.
@DeucePrez did i say it was mandatory? no i didnt i just was stating the fact and alot of muslims take advantage of this fact and alot of families do force their daughters into marrying men they dont want to marry! and the palistinians should get out of Gaza! it belongs to the Isrealis!
This man sounds confused. His statements show that he, too, like many non-Muslims, is not distinguishing the faith of Islam from a person's or country's culture. This is a common BLUNDER by non-Muslims and one would hardly expect a Muslim to make the same error.
He CLEARLY doesn't represent a vast majority of Muslims who do not want to de-spiritualize Islam....making it worldly.
islam would be more spiritual if virtues such as tolerance, social responsibility, honesty & humility are practiced... im not saying that islam doesn't possess these values, but most muslims are told to blindly engage in superficial displays & fanatical thinking... this must me remedied... of course secularism may not be the one solution to modernise islam, but a rational & adaptive approach is always wise...
As a Muslim, I think it's a fair assessment to state that I know more Muslims than you do. Given. Most of the Muslims that I know aren't engaged in superficial displays or fanatical thinking.
You can see how this fact nullifies your previous statement, right?!
it does not nullify anything... religion & culture are constant tools for extremities, where shades of grey are often omitted... within islam itself, factions arise, as do other beliefs & ideologies... a muslim will always know how he/she interprets islam, but it's always an arbitrary to claim that he/she knows another man... in order to have a clear sense, one should step back & judge islam & muslims at th same level of corresponding aspects of others...
@kelgnaik Selling young girls into marriage with older men: Thanks to the Prophet Muhammads example, now every pedophile in Islam has justification for sexually abusing young children.SOURCE: AL-ARABIYA
most muslims are cocooned in a state of fantasy, driven by ego... the fact of the quran & achievements of some muslims does not justify all the crimes today... like all, muslims are regular men & women... they are not an exclusive caste, hence no right to sneer & jeer on non-muslims...
NONE of what this man is saying (1:30) has ANYTHING to do with Islam. I've NEVER read that in the Holy Qur'àn nor have I heard of any hadith sanctioning anything he mentions in the above timeframe.
Also, I noticed that there is no YT video for secular Christianity or Judaism, so why is there an effort to de-spiritualize Islam to make it worldly and not the other aforementioned faiths??
The bible has just as much evil crap in it as the koran. Christianity has been 'tamed' somewhat over the years.
It might be more difficult to make Islam more moderate because it has a few statements banning 'innovation' to the religion.. however.. your argument that muslim's can't be secular and moderate just doesnt' make sense.
Your argument might equally have been made against dark-age christians - yet today, christianity is not *quite* so bad.
What happened to the non-Muslim populations and the sudden decrease in their numbers in the past 90 years in Turkey?
And please someone who is unbiased tell me, why are Churches destroyed, prevented from being renovated, or new churches and synagogues not allowed to be built in Turkey?
Funny how Muslims claim them selves to be Secular Muslims in a dominated non-Islamic country. Why don't they make the same claims and promote "their bent version of so called Secularism" in countries which are non-Secularist, openly unfettered publicly in Islamic countries? It's either freedom or submission, but can never be both. Islamic Secularism is a LIE. I am of the West, and I don'y need anyone trying to sell me something that is all smoke and mirrors.
This man speaks for himself and, perhaps, a very, very small percentage of people who claim to be Muslims. Most Muslims don't claim to be "secularists"!
Muslims are Muslims. Also, "Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.
I did not imply that Secularism is Democracy...why don't you reread what I commented. Secularism is the separation of religion from the state (government/rule of law). For a Muslim Islam lays down the law.
Democracy deals with the free will to support or oppose laws and the consensus of the peoples collective.
@DeucePrez In Islam free will is suppressed by religious doctrine or supports only one individuals free will who has proclaimed in the distance past of being the voice and ear of some kind of supernatural being.
Democracy and Islam can and do coexist in one society. I live in the U.S. in a democratic society with Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc. It's a multi-cultural, multi-religious society.
the Quran is a book that preaches complete and utter submission to and before the Muslim god Allah. Death and war are extremely oppositional activities to the original message of Islam.
and before you start yelling your racist shit at me, Im an Agnostic with a strong doubt against the existence of a personal, understandable god, I'm ethnically Jewish, half Latvian, half Bukharian born and raised in New York City.
Allah is not a "Muslim god". He is THE GOD. The same one who created the heavens and the earth and everything on/in them.
What you stated is similar to saying that a cat is an English feline and only le chat is a French feline and un gato is a Spanish feline. They're one and the same, just 3 different languages!!
recently in malaysia, christians have strived to promote this idea, but were met with aggression by muslims... suppose the 2nd golden age of islam is still far from reach...
The Holy Qur'an DOES teach complete submission to God/Allah. In that, there is no doubt. However, God is God and He is God of all; not just "the Muslim God", as you wrongly cited.
Also, I have a question for YOU (or anyone else that, somehow, agrees with you):
Do other religions teach PARTIAL submission to God and the rest to some other being entity????!!!!
No they don't, and that is neither a problem nor the point.
My point is that Islam means submission in the active sense. A total dedication of your life to god and your religion, leaving no leeway for that which makes us human.
Islam, at it's worst, is as awful as any religion.
My problem is that at it's most common, it breeds fundamentalism, it incurs wrath against anything that is even the slightest bit more open-minded than a willingness to die for god.
I have a suggestion - as some who lives in the middle east I know that most Arabs that could have been influenced by such claims cn not understand them due to lack of knowledge of the English language. If anyone of you know people that can translate books of Irshad, Rushdie, Ibn Warraq and other material to Arabic and spread it in the middle east - It will make a huge change. currently - Arabs and mulslims here don't hear those important voices of people like Manji, think about that!!!
wonderful! hope muslims or people from any other faith can keep their faith personal to themselves and let god be the judge. Secularism is the best solution for this world.
What Ibn Warraq is saying is that everyone has to decide for themselves. Whether you live in east or west, being a muslim is between you and God. Muslims are not bad people, but there are many problems in the muslim world. Forcing hijab, female circumcision, forced marraige, honor killing, etc. THESE ARE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. Just because you believe in GOD and the prophet doesn't mean you should participate in these human rights violations.
Interesting that you'd take this stance, considering that none of these items are Islamic!! No one is "forcing Muslim sisters" to cover themselves; a vast majority do that on their own. The female circumcision, forced marriage and honor killings ARE NOT practiced in all countries and is a CULTURAL thing.
It IS unfortunate that in teaching Islam to no-Muslims, SOME Muslims tend to incorporate their culture into the faith.
You cannot be secular and Muslim, but Kuffar and Secular! Either you are a muslim who follows the Quran and Sunnah and obeys the 5 Pillars of Islam, or you dont!
Islam is a personal FAITH, not a political doctrine. I never debate religion because there is only ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH and that is this: Everyone is responsible for their Individual Conscience. You can't force someone to pray,fast or convert to your faith. Religion is between the Individual and the Idealogy. Imams & Mullahs shouldnt act as politicians. Religion belongs in the hearts of the people, not the heads of the state. Unless Islam goes through reformation, Radical Islam will never end.
Well done!..a most meritable footage contribution,to the "enlightment" of Europeans..over the decades, of Belligerant Propaganda,in the World Media,on People with Religious convictions,or a "moral" set of clearly defined system of "Beliefs"..a Great Speech !-Thanks!
I have been thinking the same ideas Ibn Warraq presents. We muslims move to Europe and US, Canada and non muslims are taught to respect us. We should respect them. Islam needs to be pulled out of the dark ages. A woman should be free to choose to wear hijaf if she wants to or doesn't want to. Basic Secular humanistic principles are the foundations of modern civilization, and Islam should be interepreted to respect basic human rights and reasoning
"Oh ye who believe, take not those who take your religion for a joke as guiders an protectors, for they guide and protect themselves, if ye do this, ye have been made apostate"(5:28)
Ibn Warraq has no business in meddling in the affairs of Muslims. he is an apostate, all this does is create Fitna and alienate converts.
Either you follow God's law or you dont! Just because we are living in the West, does not mean we need to abandon our Muslim Identity like weak individuals with no Iman do! How one can call oneself Muslim and say that Islam is in the Dark Ages is beyond me.
Muslims are in the dark ages..and yes its not always black and white..thats the philosphy of the fundamentalist...remember fundamentalist from different faiths and cultures will kill each other..but secular from differnt culture and faith embrace each other...
State prosecutor asks Turkey's highest court to shutdown the ruling AK Party for anti-secular activities. TV channels quoted the court of appeals chief prosecutor, saying he wanted senior party members, including the president and prime minister, banned from politics for five years. Turkey, which is seeking European Union membership, is predominantly Muslim but an officially secular system.
The Turkish constitution specifically states the country is a secular republic and puts its sovereignty in the hands of the people, not God. As a result, Turkey is a thriving, multi-cultural society that protects the rights of all citizens, men and women, Muslim, Christian or Jew.
Islamic majority countries such as Bosnia, Turkey, Azerbaijan and other emerging semi-democracies of Central Asia are slowly evolving into more informed secular societies, with governments committed to democracy. Also, Malaysia has one of the most reforming womens groups in the Muslim world, "Sisters in Islam", who are calling for more personal freedoms, and an end to polygamy and for women to be allowed to become equal as judges.
how islamic. puting sovereignty in the hands of people and not god. and also YOU'RE WRONG. christians are persecuted in turkey in the name of turkish nationalism
WHAT? I just returned from Turkey and the 3 Christians tortured & then murdered by 5 Islam Facists, did not murdered them because of Turkish nationalism.They were murdered because they were Christian. At least that is what the murderers said. Your brainwashed ignorance is showing, Crusaderdeluxe.
yes. turkish nationalism just like european nationalism has a bit of a tendancy to kill non believers and view them as a threat. a muslim was just beheaded on camera by a neonazi group in russia
Where in the Quran does it say this? Surah 16:106 offers Allah's "wrath" and "awful doom". 2:217 states that "whoever recants and dies an unbeliever" shall be "tenants of the fire". The Quran never suggests that those who leave Islam should be killed, merely that they are sinners and will be punished by Allah. Indeed, the Hadiths and Islamic legal tradition generally punish apostasy with death, but to imply that this is explicitly stated in the Quoran is false.
It is hard to define this concept itself. Every one has their own set of rationality and lack of patience leads us where we do not listen and accept opposite views. However, he has presented a distorted picture while relating the specific incident with the general guidelines of the Holy Quran. I'm not a scholar like him but I think he has committed "Accident fallacy" or "Dicto Simpliciter." So he has made things complex while in an attempt of articulation!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I've just read his scholastic piece of writing titled as 'Why I am not a Muslim.' After reading the work of this scholar, I simply want to say, "Thanks Allah that I am a Muslim."
That`s fine for you. Is this declaration any contribution to the debate?
By the way, where did you get the book from? Is it freely available in Pakistan? I should doubt it. Moreover the fact that individuals in any islamic don`t enjoy the freedom of having free access to his work ( or any other nonconformist), makes me say " Thanks god that I am not a muslim".
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Ibn Warraq looks so unkempt and dirty. And Wafa Sultan with that butch lesbian haircut looks like a bigger dyke than irshad manji. I must say that sadly, this 'panel' does not consist of individuals who look like they have good hygiene habits...
Reading Ibn Warraq's book has helped me focus the ideas I have been thinking about for some long time. Muslims (by belief or tradition) have to act responsibly and re-think how they deal with the rest of humanity. What has been going on so far and the damage it is causing to world peace must not be allowed to continue.
"Blessed is he who sent down the message to outmatch all other walks of life, even though the unbelievers may dislike it" (9:33) neather the protestant reformation nor the enlightenment are the right models. the only correct model is prophet Muhammad(saws). we must untie the Ummah into one Khalifa.
Bukhari:V5B59N727 "When Allah's Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, 'That is so! Allah's curse be on Jews and Christians.'" Love? tolerance?
cont. pornography abortions plastic surgery depression suicide and suicidal depression mass drugation of children deemed "uncontrollable" prejudice of brown people(arabs,blacks,mexicans) gang banging sexual fetishes bums greed moneyism materialism murder suicide pacts
There are more sex-related internet searches originating from the Middle East than any other region. Also, your suicide, depression, and murder references are blatantly ironic.
societal ills of american and secular society at large alcholism drunk driving deaths lung cancer cancer(cancer comes from giving animals certain products" aids and std's mass drug use and sell coruption in politics foreign policy being run by foreigners racism prejudice serial killings robberies organized crime mass theft
Tabari IX:86 "Don't seduce the Jews or Christians for incumbent on them is to pay the jizyah protection tax." So they Jews and Christians were worth more by not becoming converts. Do I detect hypocrisy by chance?
bullshit..bunch of dump people thinking to change islam so it suits governments.. islam is a faith not a political organisation that can be changed by authors.
FINALLY! Muslims are working toward a reformation in the muslim world. Islam shares the judeo and christian values and morals but its been stuck in the middle ages. Islam never had a renaissance and thats why its so backwards, the muslim world needs a reformation and this is the beginning
Im tired of this shit, some muslims are getting too soft out here. Everybody acting all apologetic and going against their own deen for people who wont accept truth anyway. There is no such thing as a secular sunni, you either in or you out plain and simple.
SENHORSOSA 2 months ago
13 people gave into the hate mongering propaganda
xchainlinkx 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There must not be many Muslims who've seen this video or most of the ones that did didn't give it a "thumbs down" that it deserved.
Oxymorons
fall up
run slow
bright dark
earthly heavens
secular Muslim
If a person is secular, they cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits their will to do the will of God. A secularist puts their faith in worldly issues. Even a good Christian or a good Jew would not accepted the term secular added to their description!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
There must not be many Muslims who've seen this video or most of the ones that did didn't give it a "thumbs down" that it deserved.
Oxymorons
fall up
run slow
bright dark
earthly heavens
secular Muslim
If a person is secular, they cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits their will to do the will of God. A secularist puts their faith in worldly issues. Even a good Christian or a good Jew would not accepted the term secular added to their description!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
if one is secular, he practices religion behind closed doors, rather than to flaunt it in public... so yes, one can be secular and muslim, but one can't be a fundamentalist and secular... this is a clear distinction...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik Islam is much different. It's not about living behind closed doors. It's about living every aspect to the point where you are recognized as a Muslim by the public merely by your actions.
Most religions focus on the spiritual aspects, but Islam is of a much more balanced nature. It focuses on the spiritual but at the same time places heavy emphasis on 'worldly' aspects as well.
ISMASHYOUBRO 1 year ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO: maybe I've been less clear... a Muslim does not have to hide his religion behind closed doors, rather makes Islam a personal matter... there shouldnt be question on whether Islam is better or worse...
Do you notice that the worldly aspects were formulised by Muslim geniuses in medieval times, those with secularist tendencies? it's ironic how fundamentalists now take credit of their ideas, when back then they were the ones responsible for the pogroms of 'unislamic' elements...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO: "balanced"???
lukebccb 7 months ago
@lukebccb As in it is focused equally as much on the spiritual aspects of life as it is on the physical aspects of life. Late reply no?
ISMASHYOUBRO 7 months ago
What is a "sexual and gender minority"?? There are male and female. There's nothing in between.
Continue to babble....
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@sundre6 And thats the truth!
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@ sundre6:
You haven't read the Holy Qur'an. Stop perpetrating!! If you had, you'd know that what you stated was a LIE!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@sundre6:
Sounds like you're speaking of the U.S. gov't. Am I correct? Maybe that's a little extreme. They send you to jail first (for tax evasion). Then you die.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
No He is stating fact and there are many Muslims coming to know the truth about islam!! Be wise! and learn.
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@Elaineee
A Muslims who knows their faith already knows the truth about Islam! We are wise and becoming wiser.....and it has nothing to do with leaving Islam and converting to another faith.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez becoming wiser wise asses!
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@MrsElaineee:
No, just our minds are becoming wiser. Our buttocks are simply used for sitting, thank you!
You, too, may want to invest some time into becoming wiser and leave that propaganda where it belongs: in the trash!!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez whatever!, if u cant see the mockery of it thats ur problem
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
an overly atheist propaganda, like jihadist pursuits are trash in humanity, surpassed only by a supermacist ideology... egos need to go, in order to see the greater picture... there is no such thing as 'me being better than you guys'... fanatic/obsessed muslims, like other extremeties of culture, would need to understand this...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
Re: kelgnaik:
This individual suggests, "Islam should be adaptable"?? Really.....?? So, whatever direction the breeze blows, should so Islam go......
What a sad faith that would be. In fact, it wouldn't even be a "faith". Just call it what it would be (at that point)....a tumbleweed.....!!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez: yeah Islam should be adaptable... you dwell in a paranoid complex where the world is trying to kill Islam... no... look, here's a trash from me for you to consider: I'll respect Islam for what it is, nobody needs to bow and worship it for purported supremacy... there are no oohs and aahs in whatsover...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@DeucePrez: Islam, along with Judaism, Christianity, Secularism, etc. are breeze, to form a wind of change... it is always selfish to quote that 'I Am the Wind'... The Extremist mind accepts this, forming a storm of danger...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik I hope you do understand that in Islam by teaching there is no such thing as a man being better than another, regardless of what religion he may be. I do hope you realize that.
ISMASHYOUBRO 1 year ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO: Matter of fact, the Quran is not entirely followed by the general (not all) Muslim populace, in the sense that only excerpts that guarantee Islamic supremacy is glorified... Let's be clear, I'm not against Islam, it's the Muslim ego that upsets me...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
a muslim who knows their faith literally knows about islam... he/she sees it from an exclusively one-sided dimension, where aspects of islam would always be superior to un-islamic teachings... this is a misstep... there should be constant interaction amongst culture and beliefs... of course there are integral parts of islam which are worth defending, but there learning pursuits for muslims, to teach, offer, and take, absorb at the same time...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
there is no wrong involved in any muslim who chose to become atheists in their later lives... in a similar way, conversion to islam (or any religion for that matter) is just another channel of expression, a choice... there are no oohs and aahs in any of those pursuits...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
Hmmmm, this is quite interesting. What this man is doing is taking Mohammed and his violence out of Islam and almost making it into a New Age orthodoxy. Interesting and lovely if the Islamists would just follow this idea. I don't see it happening.
angeljenny55 2 years ago
in the early days of islam, people like him are abundant, constantly engaging in intellectual pursuit... gradually they have been systematically silenced, in the name of preserving islamic spirituality... it's ironic how muslims today take credit in the achievements of those silenced heretics...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
jenny55:
Prophet Muhammad was not a violent man. The Meccan who lost the bloodless battle for Mecca would have to truthfully bear witness to this truth.
Please explain what you mean when you say the made-up word, "Islamists".
Thank you!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
Comment removed
angeljenny55 1 year ago
@DeucePrez
it is irrelevant to cite the benevolence of good muslims to justify the evils to the rest... this applies to all cultures and religion... islam is not exclusive...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@ kelgnaik:
Perhaps you know so little of Islam and hold onto the lies others tell of Islam, you're reading into my comments.
Any benevolence cited about Islam is about the actions of a vast majority of Muslims. At the same time, any citations of evil done by a small minority is not representation of the faith of Islam.
I hope this truth adds to your knowledge based and refutes some of the previous lies about Islam you've taken as truth.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
there are no lies involved...
the fact that islam promotes benevolence is a fact, yet conservative fanaticism remains a violent aspect of it...
the fact that islamic achievements are cited now and then are irrelevant, wht's important is for muslims to progress, as a continuation of islam...
note that islam and muslims are not interchangeable, wht is stated is one, wht is perceived is another... there are ills among muslims, as there is good among them...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik This has nothing to do with Islam. Deuceprez isn't justifying the actions, he/she's merely stating the obvious fact that the actions of a few don't always represent the majority, or better yet the teachings themselves.
ISMASHYOUBRO 1 year ago
there is no argument against islam, yet it remains clear that it is just another channel of interpretation. there is no justifying the truths or falsehoods of it, they are irrelevant. often, we see that there is a sense of excess ego from such one-sided belief dimension, that 'i'm definitely better'. religion represents a constant, dynamic relationship with god, not a literal interpretation of literature. islam is worth examining, in ways that islam could continuously teach and learn...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
while there are truths in islamic literature, this remains a logic that should not be seen exclusively from an islamic dimension. it is part of the many in the richness of culture and intellect, shared by many. islam is not exclusive and absolute, but rather it is just there. if the literal obsessions of the quran is shed, religion and secularism might just coexist, or be separate without clashes... note that none is dominant, none would supercede, but rather everything interchanges...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik I can see where you're coming from. By law forcing people to abide by Islamic law in theory is forbidden. I do believe that people should learn their faiths and understand them better, rather than taking on an ignorant supremacist stance.
ISMASHYOUBRO 1 year ago
it is easily noticeable that supremacist ego is an ill permeating all spectra. here is where division partitions different upbringings and followings. the man we see in this video, the so-called secular muslim, is not a threat to islam. that people like him would be a driving force behind a new age of interpretation. islam will not just die, it is a scare posted by fanatics to grip on power and existence. being adaptable would improve any path or undertaking, including islam.
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO:
Shakran. I'm glad that someone spoke up in my absence.
The kelgnaik individual is talking much trash and likes to place word in others' mouths.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez He's not really talking trash, he's merely giving his viewpoint, and an educated one at that. There are many people who don't really comprehend the tenets of the religion and like to make assumptions based on what they know.
It's just the way it is. We as an ummah do need to unite and tear down the walls that have been built between us Shia's Sunni's Muslims/Non-Muslims alike - that's exactly what apologists have been saying over the last decade.
ISMASHYOUBRO 1 year ago
@DeucePrez: there is filth in you that needs to be neutralised... you do not see the sufferings of others, but only the upsets of Muslims... you see Islam as the only solution in everything... lets be fair and wise... Islam, for all that it can teach and remedy, could also adopt and learn from 'so-called' kuffars... notice that the world is built on shared experiences, not exclusivity... the sufferings of Muslims do not justify the exclusion of other discriminatories...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO: Islam shares a level experience with all tenets and paths... it is a mere choice... so it deserves basic rights and respects... what Deuceprez desires is more, he and like-minded ones dream of an Islamic utopia, where the dictates of men and women stem from it... this is an ego...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik I do disagree with the statement of it being ego - I'd consider it more of a viewpoint. I do respect your opinion...
ISMASHYOUBRO 1 year ago
@ISMASHYOUBRO: I see... then it is clear that deuceprez wallows in a one-dimensional weltanschauung... i do get the impression that he is defending islam from a shadow threat, which do not exist in reality... a more fruitful engagement would be an exchange dialogue...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
Comment removed
kelgnaik 1 year ago
the layman explanation to this will be, a muslim goes by his days being a decent man, abiding the dictates of the quran, while an islamist would chant and howl and wield every minute, so-calledly to glorify islamic supremacy... the difference is stark...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@DeucePrez: whether Muhammad is a violent man is irrelevant... we see today that most conservatives have extremist views, which would sadden God and his prophets in so many ways...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@angeljenny55:
@ angeljenny55:
Just to reiterate the truth -- there IS no violence in Islam and anything you see aggressively violent done by a Muslim/so-called Muslim is that person acting our their own aggression.
And I'm still waiting for the definition of "Islamists". Just so no one reiterates or restates a LIE, that word has no correlation with Muslim (one who submits their will to do the will of God/Allah).
Dose it mean "those who MISSED the true meaning of Islam"??
LOL
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez Muslim herdsmen, some dressed in military uniforms, attacked a predominantly Christian village at about 1 a.m. Wednesday near the city of Jos, close to where a machete-wielding Muslim group killed hundreds in a mostly Christian town this month, said Choji Gyang, special adviser on religious affairs to the governor of the Nigerian state of Plateau.
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@DeucePrez Five schoolchildren are among a dozen Iraqis blown apart by a suicide bomber.
Two police officers are killed in separate Mujahideen attacks.
A man is killed in a car bombing planted by suspected Islamists.
Eleven more people are killed in clashes between Sunni and Shia.
Four local soldiers are murdered by a Taliban bombing.
Islamic extremists attack a group of local soldiers, killing ten.
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@DeucePrez A pregnant mother and her five young children are killed by a mortar round during an attack on Ethiopians by Islamic militias.
The bodies of three people are found near an al-Qaeda torture chamber.
A 26-year-old man is shot to death by militant Muslims.
A 17-year-old Islamic militant plants a bomb that kills a former mayor's deputy.
Sectarian fundamentalists gun down a teacher.
Freedom fighters kill four Iraqi policemen.
Eight Afghans are murdered in a Taliban ambush.
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@MrsElaineee: well what Islam is , not really ur business is it/ u go to any Islamic channel n leave ur shit comments about My Religion, If Islam is not ment to be, then why doesn't ur presious Jesus stop it?, u may protest what ever, but think why more christians, jes , Hindus n more ppl r coming to islam? act smart, not coward.
and Leave Islam alone, n go watch Jesus christ Miricle channel now.
superafgpower 1 year ago
@MrsElaineee: well what Islam is , not really ur business is it/ u go to any Islamic channel n leave ur shit comments about My Religion, If Islam is not ment to be, then why doesn't ur presious Jesus stop it?, u may protest what ever, but think why more christians, jes , Hindus n more ppl r coming to islam? act smart, not coward.
and Leave Islam alone, n go watch Jesus christ Miricle channel now.
superafgpower 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrsElaineee: well what Islam is , not really ur business is it/ u go to any Islamic channel n leave ur shit comments about My Religion, If Islam is not ment to be, then why doesn't ur presious Jesus stop it?, u may protest what ever, but think why more christians, jes , Hindus n more ppl r coming to islam? act smart, not coward.
and Leave Islam alone, n go watch Jesus christ Miricle channel now.
superafgpower 1 year ago
@superafgpower correction: jews
superafgpower 1 year ago
Elainee:
Voice the same concern over those being killed in the Gaza Strip.....
There are looney folx in the good ole U.S. of A. who're hell-bent on killing law enforcement and government officials.....and those loons aren't claiming to be Muslims either!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez: to simplify things, an Islamist is the Islamic equivalent of a Zionist...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
According to many facts in books and on the internet, even muslim sources, the founder of Islam joined, called upon and participated in violent acts in the 7th century, Christ and the apostles didn´t. Islam practiced aggression and violence in the first 300 years after its founding, christianity did not. The quoran has harsh and discriminative verses about non-muslims, the New Testament is mainly pacifistic (even if som phrases can be turned inside and out). This is not my opinion, it´s facts.
732tour 2 years ago
@732tour:
I noticed that you compared Prophet Muhammad (saw) to Jesus. Interesting. You not once mentioned any of the prophet (peace be unto them) in the Old Testament who had to take up arms in defense or offense for the people of God.
Maybe you FAILED to read that (the largest) portion of the Bible....??!!!
LOL
DeucePrez 1 year ago
muhammad & christ are unrelated entities... christ is a menisfestation, while muhammand is mere flesh, who received revelation... both are not gods, but carry religious symbolisms...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@732tour:
I noticed that you stated: "According to many facts in books and on the internet..."
Yeah....one may find any point of view/biased opinion/lie on the Internet, if they're looking for it....
Case & point: that info you're claiming to have found!
:-)
DeucePrez 1 year ago
Islam is as Islam does.
watchthemoviefitna 2 years ago
@watchthemoviefitna Saudi Cleric confirms that Islam allows marriage with girls as young as one year old.
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
Elainee:
You should check your (flawed) sources. As I've stated before, too often, when Islam is taught to non-Muslims, it's entwined with that person's CULTURE, but has no basis in Islam.
My wife is one.....one year younger than ME!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez big deal! my husbands 1st wife was 10 years younger than him!
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
Elainee:
If you'd looked up over your head, you'd have seen that one going over like a helium balloon.
Let me break it down for you:
There is no statute in Islam that mandates that a grown man marries a little girl or that a woman/lady be circumcised or be forced to marry a man.
What this man is talking/babbling about is one's CULTURAL PRACTICES. It has no basis in Islam.
And I'm still awaiting your post re: murder and oppression of Palestinians in their land by Israelis....
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez did i say it was mandatory? no i didnt i just was stating the fact and alot of muslims take advantage of this fact and alot of families do force their daughters into marrying men they dont want to marry! and the palistinians should get out of Gaza! it belongs to the Isrealis!
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
This man sounds confused. His statements show that he, too, like many non-Muslims, is not distinguishing the faith of Islam from a person's or country's culture. This is a common BLUNDER by non-Muslims and one would hardly expect a Muslim to make the same error.
He CLEARLY doesn't represent a vast majority of Muslims who do not want to de-spiritualize Islam....making it worldly.
DeucePrez 2 years ago
islam would be more spiritual if virtues such as tolerance, social responsibility, honesty & humility are practiced... im not saying that islam doesn't possess these values, but most muslims are told to blindly engage in superficial displays & fanatical thinking... this must me remedied... of course secularism may not be the one solution to modernise islam, but a rational & adaptive approach is always wise...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik:
As a Muslim, I think it's a fair assessment to state that I know more Muslims than you do. Given. Most of the Muslims that I know aren't engaged in superficial displays or fanatical thinking.
You can see how this fact nullifies your previous statement, right?!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
it does not nullify anything... religion & culture are constant tools for extremities, where shades of grey are often omitted... within islam itself, factions arise, as do other beliefs & ideologies... a muslim will always know how he/she interprets islam, but it's always an arbitrary to claim that he/she knows another man... in order to have a clear sense, one should step back & judge islam & muslims at th same level of corresponding aspects of others...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@kelgnaik Selling young girls into marriage with older men: Thanks to the Prophet Muhammads example, now every pedophile in Islam has justification for sexually abusing young children.SOURCE: AL-ARABIYA
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
@MrsElaineee
most muslims are cocooned in a state of fantasy, driven by ego... the fact of the quran & achievements of some muslims does not justify all the crimes today... like all, muslims are regular men & women... they are not an exclusive caste, hence no right to sneer & jeer on non-muslims...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
@DeucePrez its worldly alright!, satan was cast down unto the earth and is doing everything he can to keep ppl from being saved.
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
Elainee:
"....its worldly alright!" To what in the world or hell are you referring?
DeucePrez 1 year ago
NONE of what this man is saying (1:30) has ANYTHING to do with Islam. I've NEVER read that in the Holy Qur'àn nor have I heard of any hadith sanctioning anything he mentions in the above timeframe.
Also, I noticed that there is no YT video for secular Christianity or Judaism, so why is there an effort to de-spiritualize Islam to make it worldly and not the other aforementioned faiths??
DeucePrez 2 years ago
In the case of Judaism it's probably because there is already a long and well established tradition of secularism.
MillsApparatus 2 years ago
The bible has just as much evil crap in it as the koran. Christianity has been 'tamed' somewhat over the years.
It might be more difficult to make Islam more moderate because it has a few statements banning 'innovation' to the religion.. however.. your argument that muslim's can't be secular and moderate just doesnt' make sense.
Your argument might equally have been made against dark-age christians - yet today, christianity is not *quite* so bad.
neuronstorm 2 years ago
@ neuronstorm:
I'll let the Christians defend their text, but the Holy Qur'an contains no "crap".
Islam teaches us to moderate ourselves and not be extreme in our actions or deeds.
Don't be fooled by the nonsense you see on TV that casts Islam in a negative light....!!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
Turkey is a "Secular Islamic Society!!!???."
What happened to the non-Muslim populations and the sudden decrease in their numbers in the past 90 years in Turkey?
And please someone who is unbiased tell me, why are Churches destroyed, prevented from being renovated, or new churches and synagogues not allowed to be built in Turkey?
Islamic Secularism is an oxymoron.
1/Funny
Aegialeus 2 years ago
Funny how Muslims claim them selves to be Secular Muslims in a dominated non-Islamic country. Why don't they make the same claims and promote "their bent version of so called Secularism" in countries which are non-Secularist, openly unfettered publicly in Islamic countries? It's either freedom or submission, but can never be both. Islamic Secularism is a LIE. I am of the West, and I don'y need anyone trying to sell me something that is all smoke and mirrors.
2/Funny
Aegialeus 2 years ago
Aegialeus:
This man speaks for himself and, perhaps, a very, very small percentage of people who claim to be Muslims. Most Muslims don't claim to be "secularists"!
Muslims are Muslims. Also, "Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez
I agree, "Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.
Opposite ideologies Secularism and Islam or Democracy and Islam are contradictions and can not be both attained at the same time.
You have free will (democracy) vs submission of free will (Islam).
Open and truthful (Democracy) vs Concealed and deceitful (Islam)
Aegialeus 1 year ago
Comment removed
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez
I did not imply that Secularism is Democracy...why don't you reread what I commented. Secularism is the separation of religion from the state (government/rule of law). For a Muslim Islam lays down the law.
Democracy deals with the free will to support or oppose laws and the consensus of the peoples collective.
1/LOL
Aegialeus 1 year ago
@DeucePrez In Islam free will is suppressed by religious doctrine or supports only one individuals free will who has proclaimed in the distance past of being the voice and ear of some kind of supernatural being.
The joke is on you not I...think about it.
2/LOL
Aegialeus 1 year ago
@ Aegialeus:
Democracy and Islam can and do coexist in one society. I live in the U.S. in a democratic society with Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc. It's a multi-cultural, multi-religious society.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@Aegialeus :
There is no concealing in Islam, either. In fact, it's rather opening and revealing.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ Aegialeus In your reply, you reveal much -- mainly, your lack of knowledge of Islam!! Islam and democracy can and do exist.
Secular means "worldly" not democracy or democratic.
Islam means submissions of one's will to do the will of Allah/God.
Also, there is nothing deceitful about Islam.
But feel free to continue to espouse your ignorance of Islam and other topics. We're all watching.....and laughing.....AT YOU!! LOL
DeucePrez 1 year ago
wrong brothe becuase you dont know what quran says. you have never read it. islam means PEACE
Ommatey 2 years ago
in which language ????????
H0wAb0ut 2 years ago
peace be with you
brother the word Islam came from arabic word salam which means submission to Allah(God) and it also means peace.
peace be with you
Ommatey 2 years ago
the Quran is a book that preaches complete and utter submission to and before the Muslim god Allah. Death and war are extremely oppositional activities to the original message of Islam.
and before you start yelling your racist shit at me, Im an Agnostic with a strong doubt against the existence of a personal, understandable god, I'm ethnically Jewish, half Latvian, half Bukharian born and raised in New York City.
spurious 2 years ago
spurious:
Allah is not a "Muslim god". He is THE GOD. The same one who created the heavens and the earth and everything on/in them.
What you stated is similar to saying that a cat is an English feline and only le chat is a French feline and un gato is a Spanish feline. They're one and the same, just 3 different languages!!
Even Arabic-speaking Christians call God Allah!!
DeucePrez 2 years ago
recently in malaysia, christians have strived to promote this idea, but were met with aggression by muslims... suppose the 2nd golden age of islam is still far from reach...
kelgnaik 1 year ago
" Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad."
"Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord"
Deuteronomy 6: 4
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ MrsElaineee :
You quoted:
"Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord"
Deuteronomy 6: 4
Yes. He is ONE (not three/3). And there is none like Him.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez yea and its too bad u dont know Him, Because his name is not allah
MrsElaineee 1 year ago
Elainee:
"Him....his". Pick one and stick with it....
In Arabic, God's name is Allah. In Hebrew in Jehovah. There's more than one language out here, you should know. But the reference is to ONE GOD.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@ spurious:
The Holy Qur'an DOES teach complete submission to God/Allah. In that, there is no doubt. However, God is God and He is God of all; not just "the Muslim God", as you wrongly cited.
Also, I have a question for YOU (or anyone else that, somehow, agrees with you):
Do other religions teach PARTIAL submission to God and the rest to some other being entity????!!!!
DeucePrez 1 year ago
@DeucePrez
No they don't, and that is neither a problem nor the point.
My point is that Islam means submission in the active sense. A total dedication of your life to god and your religion, leaving no leeway for that which makes us human.
Islam, at it's worst, is as awful as any religion.
My problem is that at it's most common, it breeds fundamentalism, it incurs wrath against anything that is even the slightest bit more open-minded than a willingness to die for god.
spurious 1 year ago
@spurious:
You know nothing about this deen called Islam and your statements are very revealing of that fact.
There is no need for you to comment as you're further proving my point.
But I DO thank you for doing so!
;-)
( ( NEXT!! ) )
DeucePrez 1 year ago
At last the voice of reason thank you.
centurey8901 3 years ago
centurey8901
Not reason, slight of hand with the aid of smoke and mirrors.
Yes believe in god if you must, but to be a Muslim and a Secular is a contradiction in definition.
Aegialeus 2 years ago 2
I have a suggestion - as some who lives in the middle east I know that most Arabs that could have been influenced by such claims cn not understand them due to lack of knowledge of the English language. If anyone of you know people that can translate books of Irshad, Rushdie, Ibn Warraq and other material to Arabic and spread it in the middle east - It will make a huge change. currently - Arabs and mulslims here don't hear those important voices of people like Manji, think about that!!!
serbianshelley 3 years ago
SECULAR & ISLAM is a BIG oxymoron
ISLAM = complete submssion to the way of god.
SECULAR = no god and no religion
therefor you cant be bouth secular and muslim.
islam is not just A PESONAL FAITH , it's the way of life for all mankind.
ahmerwine 3 years ago
now this should be seen more often
JOHNOOH 3 years ago
wonderful! hope muslims or people from any other faith can keep their faith personal to themselves and let god be the judge. Secularism is the best solution for this world.
ednan9 3 years ago
Hi,
Please, could you tell me how come that you do not condemne blasphemy!? Would you also accept someone swearing at your Mum?
blidamuslim 3 years ago
What Ibn Warraq is saying is that everyone has to decide for themselves. Whether you live in east or west, being a muslim is between you and God. Muslims are not bad people, but there are many problems in the muslim world. Forcing hijab, female circumcision, forced marraige, honor killing, etc. THESE ARE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. Just because you believe in GOD and the prophet doesn't mean you should participate in these human rights violations.
calypspoetry 3 years ago
tell this to the IMF which is robbing and starving the third world.
xrami69 3 years ago
@ calypspoetry :
Interesting that you'd take this stance, considering that none of these items are Islamic!! No one is "forcing Muslim sisters" to cover themselves; a vast majority do that on their own. The female circumcision, forced marriage and honor killings ARE NOT practiced in all countries and is a CULTURAL thing.
It IS unfortunate that in teaching Islam to no-Muslims, SOME Muslims tend to incorporate their culture into the faith.
DeucePrez 1 year ago
You cannot be secular and Muslim, but Kuffar and Secular! Either you are a muslim who follows the Quran and Sunnah and obeys the 5 Pillars of Islam, or you dont!
Parvez86 3 years ago
I am a Kuffar , and proud of it :))
"you might say i am dreamer but iam not the only one" J. Lennon and our numbers will only grow..
FaridG25 3 years ago
And you are telling me this because....?! Who cares!
Parvez86 3 years ago
Islam is a personal FAITH, not a political doctrine. I never debate religion because there is only ONE ABSOLUTE TRUTH and that is this: Everyone is responsible for their Individual Conscience. You can't force someone to pray,fast or convert to your faith. Religion is between the Individual and the Idealogy. Imams & Mullahs shouldnt act as politicians. Religion belongs in the hearts of the people, not the heads of the state. Unless Islam goes through reformation, Radical Islam will never end.
calypspoetry 3 years ago
the quran contains a judicial system, how can u apply it personally:D
xrami69 3 years ago
Well done!..a most meritable footage contribution,to the "enlightment" of Europeans..over the decades, of Belligerant Propaganda,in the World Media,on People with Religious convictions,or a "moral" set of clearly defined system of "Beliefs"..a Great Speech !-Thanks!
dinosky123 3 years ago
Great !!
Zuedon 3 years ago
Thank you for a sensible voice in this wilderness of fundmentalism.
wordavee 3 years ago
I have been thinking the same ideas Ibn Warraq presents. We muslims move to Europe and US, Canada and non muslims are taught to respect us. We should respect them. Islam needs to be pulled out of the dark ages. A woman should be free to choose to wear hijaf if she wants to or doesn't want to. Basic Secular humanistic principles are the foundations of modern civilization, and Islam should be interepreted to respect basic human rights and reasoning
calypspoetry 3 years ago 4
"Oh ye who believe, take not those who take your religion for a joke as guiders an protectors, for they guide and protect themselves, if ye do this, ye have been made apostate"(5:28)
Ibn Warraq has no business in meddling in the affairs of Muslims. he is an apostate, all this does is create Fitna and alienate converts.
Crunchybear1 3 years ago
suicide bombers create fitna, not people like this who stand for reason.
fion81 3 years ago
Either you follow God's law or you dont! Just because we are living in the West, does not mean we need to abandon our Muslim Identity like weak individuals with no Iman do! How one can call oneself Muslim and say that Islam is in the Dark Ages is beyond me.
May Allah guid you and people like you.
Parvez86 3 years ago
Muslims are in the dark ages..and yes its not always black and white..thats the philosphy of the fundamentalist...remember fundamentalist from different faiths and cultures will kill each other..but secular from differnt culture and faith embrace each other...
ednan9 3 years ago 2
thats bullshit.... secular nationalism can destroy the whole world!
xrami69 3 years ago
So far I like this video, except he does not speak for the murderers. He is very brave to speak out like this. Bravo!
Leilanie1235 3 years ago
State prosecutor asks Turkey's highest court to shutdown the ruling AK Party for anti-secular activities. TV channels quoted the court of appeals chief prosecutor, saying he wanted senior party members, including the president and prime minister, banned from politics for five years. Turkey, which is seeking European Union membership, is predominantly Muslim but an officially secular system.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Yalcinkaya said a government move to lift a ban on women students wearing the Muslim headscarf at universities amounted to anti-secular actions.
danielnz1 3 years ago
The Turkish constitution specifically states the country is a secular republic and puts its sovereignty in the hands of the people, not God. As a result, Turkey is a thriving, multi-cultural society that protects the rights of all citizens, men and women, Muslim, Christian or Jew.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Islamic majority countries such as Bosnia, Turkey, Azerbaijan and other emerging semi-democracies of Central Asia are slowly evolving into more informed secular societies, with governments committed to democracy. Also, Malaysia has one of the most reforming womens groups in the Muslim world, "Sisters in Islam", who are calling for more personal freedoms, and an end to polygamy and for women to be allowed to become equal as judges.
danielnz1 3 years ago
how islamic. puting sovereignty in the hands of people and not god. and also YOU'RE WRONG. christians are persecuted in turkey in the name of turkish nationalism
Crusaderdeluxe 3 years ago
WHAT? I just returned from Turkey and the 3 Christians tortured & then murdered by 5 Islam Facists, did not murdered them because of Turkish nationalism.They were murdered because they were Christian. At least that is what the murderers said. Your brainwashed ignorance is showing, Crusaderdeluxe.
Leilanie1235 3 years ago
yes. turkish nationalism just like european nationalism has a bit of a tendancy to kill non believers and view them as a threat. a muslim was just beheaded on camera by a neonazi group in russia
Crusaderdeluxe 3 years ago
Don't even use the term 'behead' and shift it onto some other group
xceedchaos 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
google it if you don't believe me
Crusaderdeluxe 3 years ago
Non secular undemocratic countries are the biggest human rights abusers globally! Secularism, is: freedom of conscience, freedom
of thought, and freedom of expression. Like the UN says this should be a basic Human right for all of Humanity. "Religion and State must
be separate" for any country to allow its people to be truely informed, accountable and free.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Where in the Quran does it say this? Surah 16:106 offers Allah's "wrath" and "awful doom". 2:217 states that "whoever recants and dies an unbeliever" shall be "tenants of the fire". The Quran never suggests that those who leave Islam should be killed, merely that they are sinners and will be punished by Allah. Indeed, the Hadiths and Islamic legal tradition generally punish apostasy with death, but to imply that this is explicitly stated in the Quoran is false.
vwgolf1991 3 years ago
Rationality...
It is hard to define this concept itself. Every one has their own set of rationality and lack of patience leads us where we do not listen and accept opposite views. However, he has presented a distorted picture while relating the specific incident with the general guidelines of the Holy Quran. I'm not a scholar like him but I think he has committed "Accident fallacy" or "Dicto Simpliciter." So he has made things complex while in an attempt of articulation!
riazzahid 4 years ago
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I've just read his scholastic piece of writing titled as 'Why I am not a Muslim.' After reading the work of this scholar, I simply want to say, "Thanks Allah that I am a Muslim."
riazzahid 4 years ago
Yet you can't rationally debate the points he makes. But then again rational thinking must be an alien concept to you!
baley7 4 years ago 4
"Thanks allah I am a muslim"
That`s fine for you. Is this declaration any contribution to the debate?
By the way, where did you get the book from? Is it freely available in Pakistan? I should doubt it. Moreover the fact that individuals in any islamic don`t enjoy the freedom of having free access to his work ( or any other nonconformist), makes me say " Thanks god that I am not a muslim".
individuals have the right to s
namemexy 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ibn Warraq looks so unkempt and dirty. And Wafa Sultan with that butch lesbian haircut looks like a bigger dyke than irshad manji. I must say that sadly, this 'panel' does not consist of individuals who look like they have good hygiene habits...
lettherebevideos 4 years ago
wow you are so right! they think because they have PHD some how their opinion is better then ours?
abutalaat 4 years ago
i hope that was sarcastic.
oxala75 4 years ago 2
Somebody tell Ibn Warraq that that hair cut hasn't been in since the early seventies.
xtacybaby 4 years ago
To Roach2000:
Of all the "societal ills" of America and the Secular West that you have listed, are you suggesting that these don't exist in Islamic countries?
Are you suggesting that Islamic countries are Utopian?
If you do believe this, please check out some non-governmental run news publications from some Muslim countries.
jumbyliah 4 years ago 2
there not as bad as yours. that's for certain. just look at secularized turkey. they have gangs drug dealing and rough neighborhoods.
Crusaderdeluxe 3 years ago
yes. i am suggesting that Islamic society is utopian
Crusaderdeluxe 3 years ago
Reading Ibn Warraq's book has helped me focus the ideas I have been thinking about for some long time. Muslims (by belief or tradition) have to act responsibly and re-think how they deal with the rest of humanity. What has been going on so far and the damage it is causing to world peace must not be allowed to continue.
fismail07 4 years ago 2
I support Ibn Warraq.
Islam has too much political power.
mysteriousbg 4 years ago
listen to "Giving and Investing in the HereAfter"
1111maria 4 years ago
Ibn Warraq - This will never work. Islam is tyrranical and theocratic by its nature.
LawrenceErnie 4 years ago
"Blessed is he who sent down the message to outmatch all other walks of life, even though the unbelievers may dislike it" (9:33) neather the protestant reformation nor the enlightenment are the right models. the only correct model is prophet Muhammad(saws). we must untie the Ummah into one Khalifa.
Crunchybear1 4 years ago
Talk about brainwashed, the founder of islam was a lowlife which pretty much makes you one too...
mrcombi 3 years ago
Seriously people, this is ridiculous.. Before believing in a god, start to believe in you.
Im a man, im part of something big: The human race. Just be. Just Live. In peace and harmony.
Shawn S.
jocepe96 4 years ago
Sounds nice, but I'd rather think about where I come from and the meaning of life.
Wikimedian 4 years ago
Bukhari:V5B59N727 "When Allah's Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, 'That is so! Allah's curse be on Jews and Christians.'" Love? tolerance?
Oreke1 4 years ago
what where did you pull that from?
mohamadyomar 4 years ago
@mahamadyomar. He gave the reference. Hadiths bukhari. How do you cope wuth the sayings of your prophet?
namemexy 4 years ago
the Qur'an tells you why Allah curses the christians and jews. maybe this video will fill you in.
/watch?v=QaWA3Yl3tzo
Crusaderdeluxe 3 years ago
rOaCh2000 4 years ago
There are more sex-related internet searches originating from the Middle East than any other region. Also, your suicide, depression, and murder references are blatantly ironic.
pavlov6 4 years ago 2
rOaCh2000 4 years ago
Tabari IX:86 "Don't seduce the Jews or Christians for incumbent on them is to pay the jizyah protection tax." So they Jews and Christians were worth more by not becoming converts. Do I detect hypocrisy by chance?
Oreke1 4 years ago
bullshit..bunch of dump people thinking to change islam so it suits governments.. islam is a faith not a political organisation that can be changed by authors.
laascaanood87 4 years ago
"dump"?
i think they're possibly thinking to change Islam to suit human beings.
Faiths -- especially Islam -- *are* political organizations, at root: tribal, national, ethnic cultural backbones and bulwarks.
oxala75 4 years ago 2
great.hope more and more people will follow your example.
luxcretia2 4 years ago
Barak Allah fe
Oracle176x 4 years ago
Fantastic vide...I do support your efforts.
TAPS711 4 years ago
If you want to know about the origins of Islam Listen to:
prophetofdoom. net/audio/Prophet_of_Doom_Prologue.mp3
prophetofdoom. net/audio/Prophet_of_Doom_01_Would_You_Believe.mp3
prophetofdoom. net/audio/Prophet_of_Doom_02_Devils_Deceptions_and_Backrubs.mp3
prophetofdoom. net/audio/Prophet_of_Doom_Appendix_Islams_Dark_Past.mp3
if you have a qur'an follow along.
Tesselator 4 years ago
FINALLY! Muslims are working toward a reformation in the muslim world. Islam shares the judeo and christian values and morals but its been stuck in the middle ages. Islam never had a renaissance and thats why its so backwards, the muslim world needs a reformation and this is the beginning
calypspoetry 4 years ago
they speak for atheists and christians not muslims.this is hate refromists their backbones are from christians.there is no such a thing as they wish